Do People in China Really Eat Dogs?: A Lesson on Stereotypes and the Weaponization of Morality

[@kaheivi]

once i started learning more about animal rights and the “hierarchy” of animal dishes, it really opened my eyes. my mom’s from mexico and she told me she used to eat iguanas. i wasn’t very phased because mexican tacos include tacos de lengua (tongue), tacos de cabeza (head), and tacos de tripa (tripe/intestines). a lot of mexicans think they’re above these “weird” dishes because they’re not socially acceptable to some people. in peru they also eat guinea pigs and it’s seen as taboo to outsiders. it’s funny to see what people deem acceptable when everyone is eating sentient creatures either way. it’s all the same thing so why should we shame other cultures?

[@kaheivi]

+ my mom grew up in kind of a jungle-y area that was sort of removed from society. a lot of the disgust with these cultural dishes stem from classism as well because sometimes the non farm animals were some of the only food available. i also see people’s disgust with balut because “aw it’s a baby duck and you’re eating it!” like do you have the same reaction to veal? no? then stop being a hypocrite!

[@EphemeralTao]

@@kaheiviExactly, the veganism debate, and food debates in general, are rife with classism and cultural chauvinism. Balut is just plain nasty, though. Even my Filipino brother-in-law, who will eat just about anything, won't touch the stuff. I mean, like him, I'll eat almost anything that sits still long enough, but some things I am just not down with. That "wet feather" taste is just 🤢

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

why shouldn't i be able to voice my opinion that that is nasty as f*ck? lol sounds like controlling behavior also not everyone eats animals lmao

[@cgyarn]

@@EphemeralTao it’s certainly an acquired taste. I’m Filipino and I don’t eat the chick part. I just drink the juice and eat the yolk.

[@beastvg123]

Outside of absolute necessity, eating animals is always degenerate behavior. Humans are fundamentally selfish and lazy, however. Most people will never give up greedily stuffing themselves despite the consequences (especially consequences for others, namely animals) in the same way couch potatoes will never get into shape, and lazy unattractive men will never stop consuming pornography. We do what makes us comfortable, even at the expense of others. People probably won't stop abusing animals until they by and large embrace personal responsibility. People who don't embrace personal responsibility can never be productive or moral members of society.

[@suricato151]

Growing up in Brazil, where food is abundant and yet more than half of the population does not have access to food, so much so we have a classist approach to beef - with certain cuts deemed "noble" (cortes nobres) and other deemed "lesser" (a infame "carne de segunda") - moving to Asia was a real eye-opening experience not only about my own privileges but also to the concept of hunger as a whole. For the first time I understood what scarcity was. I think for most western people, specially the ones that don't live in the rural area, there's this disconnection with the fundamentals of food, and specifically why there is so many prejudices, among the western world, against certain types of food, when really there should be none. If it feeds you, if it has nutritional value, and if it doesn't present a threat to your health, it's good enough for consumption. There really shouldn't be such thing as a "comida de segunda", food is food, and we shouldn't look down on people because of the food they eat.

[@Cnichal]

As long as it’s not human I agree. We’re not feeding people, but we’re condemning how they get food and what they’re eating. If we weren’t so busy fighting wars, maybe we would’ve been able to figure out world hunger. Maybe we would have vegan products, that could sufficiently feed the world.

[@willowarkan2263]

I am still not sure how this happened either, I mean germans eat a bunch of stuff that US-americans baulk it, i mean they can't handle the making of hotdogs from meat paste, we eat meat paste on bread ffs. We have blood sausage, liver sausage, fermented cabbage, and all three in one dish. Cross the border and you get the french, at least in the Alsace, that prepare snail and frog, the latter of which kind of tastes like very tiny chicken. Not to mention all the stuff some our recent ancestors would have eaten, when the area got hit by plague or famine. There is the dish to make old hard bread edible again, literally named poor knight.

[@leonineKelter]

As a Colombian, I also see people make faces at me if I mention that in Colombia sometimes you may eat Capybara meat because capybaras are adorable. They're also delicious.

[@willowarkan2263]

@@leonineKelter i mean cuy are even cuter and those things are sold looking like a car ran them over

[@leonineKelter]

@@willowarkan2263 lol I just looked it up. They look like little hogs

[@JaneDoe_123]

I haven't finished the video yet, but the initial questions alone reminded me of a somewhat personal story related to raising animals, seeing them as a food source, and how fundamentally personal the sense of right and wrong is when it comes to that. Some years ago, pig slaughtering "at home", meaning in one's private property, was common practice all over the country - I'm Portuguese btw. For health reasons, it has since been made illegal, but this story takes place long before that. My grandparents' neighbours had a female pig, who rejected a runt piglet. They tried to feed and keep it, reasoning that, if it worked, it would be worth the effort when it grew enough to be eaten. This pig was very intelligent, like most pigs, really, and since he was raised closer to the people, they saw this. They started teaching him like they would the dogs, and eventually they had a guard pig who commanded the dogs. This was met with humor, because it's funny seeing a pig in a different light. This pig never grew to be quite as big as the average pig, but he was still a big beefy lad. And the family was big, like most families back in the day, and even if they could go without the meat for themselves, they needed the money that selling the meat would provide. But they couldn't kill it. They couldn't bring themselves to. They felt too close to the pig to kill it. But they still needed the money. So, they arranged a deal, and sold him to another man in the village, who also slaughtered pigs (it was common practice, honestly, most families did it). And for a whole year they refused to buy any meat from that man, even if it wasn't pig meat. Not because they resented him, but because the emotional toll was too great. Meanwhile, they slaughtered other pigs while raising that one, and kept the practice well after that one was sold. My point is, basically, that morality is not objective, not even within oneself, and it's more dissossiated from actual emotions that most people realise. Was the family morally wrong, in their eyes, for having the pig killed? No. Did it still hurt? Absolutely.

[@666kittycat666]

This is also why I honestly doubt people who say that people who work on big farms “truly care for the animals they have in their stables”. I don’t doubt that many livestock farmers care for the animals they own in some way but you can’t tell me that they don’t see them as food products first and foremost. You have to emotionally separate yourself from the animals in your care if you are literally raising them to be a product for consumption. I also truly think that having to take that type of “dehumanising” attitude towards the creatures you care also just leads to a lot of animal abuse.

[@JaneDoe_123]

@@666kittycat666 yeah, big cattle or aviary farms don't really care for the animals, only for what may affect the quality of their meat/other products. And even that is "worked around" with suplements and hormones and such. I'm personally very lucky, because Portugal is a small country, and I live in a somewhat rural area, so I can go and see how certain people treat the animals they later sell. It's no longer legal to kill them themselves, so I believe that helps with the mental barrier of caring for an animal and then having it be killed to be consumed. You can tell how poor, historically speaking, an area or even a whole country, has been, by how they treat meat, and how many animals they consume(d). Where I'm from, chicken feet are thrown out, because to eat them meant you had nothing else, so people avoid them. Meanwhile, pigs feet are common, because you were to waste absolutely nothing of the pig, everything could mean the difference between making it through winter or not. And pig meat is a lot richer than chicken meat, so one is placed above the other. Plus a single pig could feed a big family, but a single chicken could not. Hell, in the south of Portugal, corn bread is frowned upon by older people, because corn flour was cheaper, and thus corn bread reminds them of hard times where they couldn't get any other bread. Meanwhile, it's the standard bread in the north of the country. It's great that we're now able to consider not harming animals in any way to be able to live, but it's sadly still not an options for so many people all over the world. So many are still focused on surviving instead of living, it's heartbreaking.

[@20000dino]

This is the exact same conclusion I got to when my ex told me he wouldn’t care about eating any sort of animal - which disturbed me at the time, even if I knew he wasn’t wrong. I truly realized how whichever animals you “should” eat or “shouldn’t” eat really only comes down to your own personal values and biases. My ex shamed me about not agreeing with him, claiming if I cared so much about certain animals, I wouldn’t eat animals at all - but really, we were both equally wrong for not respecting each other’s preferences. It’s okay if you wouldn’t eat a dog, but it’s also okay if someone else would. It’s also okay if this is a dealbreaker if you’re dating someone (even though that wasn’t the main reason we broke up). I’m Portuguese too, btw.

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

they kept the slave that entertained them.....morality is objective if you filter out the shitty fluff..... ofc pfp checks out for that level of ingenuity lmao

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

​@@SUPERPOWERCHINA_what in the haberdashery and hemoglobin 🧌

[@hungoverpuppy3907]

I'm not Asian, but I was raised in an immigrant household, and people can be so childish whenever I eat leftovers from home like stewed liver, plantains, certain sauces, etc. Some of questions I get asked about my culture and language are kinda annoying and insensitive. I do find it weird how some of these people will turn around and fetishize the women from my culture and go to restaurants that serve food from my culture. I can only imagine how Asians must feel when they deal with stuff like this.

[@Lilliathi]

What culture are you?

[@कनलदअ_गनगयव]

do NOT google horse meat consumption europe!

[@EgoFeederz]

@@कनलदअ_गनगयव Compared to eating what? Anything that moves like they do in Asia? educate yourself or stfu

[@vinny9868]

​@@Lilliathi Not OP, but most likely the Caribbean.

[@jellyrolly]

stewed liver? interesting - as a korean person, i've seen liver served steamed, fried in batter, raw and cut up, or in a clear soup but never stewed. what does it taste like?

[@thisisnotausernameXD]

A bit of a factual inaccuracy although it was only mentioned in passing, Indian Hindus do consider cows sacred but many do hold themselves as morally superior to those who consume beef. This even went as far as a ban on beef for a period as a tool for othering religious minorities as well as lower castes (who were also historically left with few options except to consume the undesirable parts of meat like organs or certain animals) . Meanwhile, beef exports from the country continued per usual. It's not limited to white Christian morality alone but they share the commonality of being systematic methods of othering certain sections of society.

[@crys_cornflakez]

Wow this is really interesting, I’ll have to look up more! Thank you for sharing

[@EphemeralTao]

I was recently watching a sort-of-related video essay, It was a panel of Indians, both Hindu and Muslims, and one guy made the comment that refusal to eat beef is strongly linked to class/varna, specifically the Brahmin class, which is the highest social class in Vedic religion and culture. He said this has become a cultural stereotype in the west because the majority of Hindu Indians in or familiar to the west are from the Brahmin class. He also went on to say that something like 90% of Indians eat some sort of meat, including beef, especially in the southern states.

[@gaeig]

Not really. It's more of strictly vegetarian Hindus considering themselves morally superior to Hindus who eat some form of meat, beef or not. Eating beef, Hindu or muslim isn't just seen as morally inferior, it is almost seen as a grave religious transgression to the point that beef in banned in many parts of north India and people who smuggle cattle to predominantly Muslim localities often get lynched in North India although with the politicization of Hinduism there is increasing organization of groups to stop these "smugglers" and police areas where slaughter of cows might take place.

[@gaeig]

@@EphemeralTao Idk, but as an indian it is more of a regional aspect rather than a caste aspect. Northwestern Indian Hindus are much more likely to be vegetarian and shun eating beef as compared to South Indian Hindus. It is simply Westerners who thought north indians shunning beef is more exotic than south indians being more morally ambiguous and thus the stereotype Also caste is different from class, in the sense your class is decided by your birth and aiming for social mobility is a religious crime unlike in any other society in the world.

[@EphemeralTao]

@@gaeig Usually when I see it translated, Varna is equated to social class, and Jati to caste. I know it's rather more complex than what we understand as class and caste in the Eurosphere world.

[@jgclairee]

elementary school kids were absolutely brutal about school lunches. i remember begging my parents to stop packing me lunches in thermoses because kids would always make fun of me. it made me feel so embarrassed and othered and im a white american so most of the food i was eating wasn't even linked to my culture

[@aclstudios]

Our school lunches were so bad, mine legit looked better than what other kids ate from the cafeteria... and it was just sandwiches and pre-packaged snacks! I'd have kids begging me for the snacks lmao.

[@ashannaredwolf8485]

I'm also a white American, but I got a lot of leftovers for lunch and it was utterly humiliating. Kids are vicious.

[@appa609]

tupperware is better than thermoses

[@francisnopantses1108]

I also got sent to school with thermoses and didn't get bullied for that but got bullied for literally everything else including my name. Also white American.

[@marzipancutter8144]

@@francisnopantses1108 Kids are so unhinged that There's literally no telling what attribute they'll base their social hierarchies and othering about. It's impossible to control for all those variables. The only solution is to teach them not to be assholes. They learn it from observing adults, and honestly our social categories are just as stupid and arbitrary.

[@belligerentkitten]

I think it's morally inconsistent to think that it's morally fine to eat animals, but morally wrong to eat dogs. You can admit that you don't like it and understand it to be a personal or cultural bias - but don't use it against other cultures. In the end, dogs are animals, and either all animals matter, or none do. I decided they do matter, do have a right to life, and so I don't eat animals.

[@bennycarter5249]

This is a very good point. What she leaves out is what happens to the dog before it becomes meat. Can I decide that it's moral to eat dogs and yet immoral to torture them first? Cheyenne certainly doesn't adress this in the video.

[@ongakira]

@@bennycarter5249what is wrong with you 😭 you are all up in the comments lol

[@mr-x7689]

I decided plants matter, and have a right to life, and so I don't eat plants. After all, we kill animals before we eat them. More often than not we dont kill the plants before we cook them. Most plants can be planted agein and start growing even after being "Harvested". And sientists have found out that plants can both see and feel what we do to them, so i find it incredibly immoral to eat plants. Or we could just eat whatever we want and not play the moral game. becaus neither side is right and none have the moral high ground.

[@ffaeye]

Are you vegan or vegetarian? \g

[@belligerentkitten]

@@ffaeye vegan, though I occasionally eat animal products that would otherwise be wasted, so tehnically freegan I guess?

[@panqueque445]

The "How could you eat a pet?" line shows some people have no experience living in a farm. Cows are surprisingly similar to dogs in behavior, believe it or not. Farmers sometimes keep pigs as pets, living inside the house and everything just like a dog, and they still butcher pigs to eat. Considering an animal a pet and a food source is not this unheard of thing in the west. I don't know why people find it so hard to understand that it can apply to any animal, including dogs. People also keep ducks as pets, and they love them just as much as they would a dog, that doesn't stop some of them from eating duck meat tho, and no one bats an eye.

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

would you like if your masters ate your family next to you? that's weird af dude

[@panqueque445]

@@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow Tell that to the farmers who eat the same animals they keep as pets

[@Jay-Kay-Buwembo]

Pigs are actually smarter than dogs

[@Lando-kx6so]

pigs were raised & bred for thousands of years specifically for their meat, dogs evolved with us to be companion animals, guardians, & pets all over the world. There's a reason why every culture eats chickens, most eat cows, most eat goats, & most apart from Muslims eat pigs but the vast vast majority do not eat dogs and it's a taboo.@@Jay-Kay-Buwembo

[@izzycurer1260]

I have to respectfully disagree. I grew up on a farm. I've raised calves. I've raised dogs. Both can be cool, but they're not really anything alike.

[@ChubuPeng]

as a kid, my mom always told me that some ate dogs because of poverty and while i didnt enjoy the idea of dogs being eaten myself, i understood the reasons. at the end of the day i just shrugged and left the topic at that and yes while its upsetting to see dogs mistreated and kept in horrible conditions before theyre slaughtered, its so hypocritical of people to not have the same energy and outrage for the chicken/cow/pig meat industry. people will use whatever it takes to demonize us and our culture

[@middleagebrotips3454]

Actually in some regions practically the northern China/Korea they said that dog meats stew warms the body better, great for winter.

[@bennycarter5249]

Can't I criticize both?

[@ChubuPeng]

@@bennycarter5249 of course. but again, i hardly see the same energy put into criticizing the chicken/cow/whatever industry. ive seen people get so horribly sinophobic with just an asian person posting a cute dog/cat video and (usually) people just assuming theyre chinese and then id see comments about how the person is gonna eat the dog/cat

[@pong9000]

When we're asking why a person would do a thing, one of the last reasons given will be poverty. It's human nature to be ashamed of that and stretch some other rationalization. Like broke Canadians at the supermarket checkout excusing their macaroni & cheese with wieners and ketchup because "its comfort food".

[@longsan3]

Listen, how you were raised determines how you feel about certain foods. Then how you live guides your continued choices. Some have a very specific opinion and others feel that meat is meat. We all need to read and research more.

[@xs10shul]

Pets and food are both incredibly political. Put the two topics together, and it's almost too complex to comprehend... but you navigated the turbulent waters like like a pro. Well done.

[@bennycarter5249]

Her video left out 1000 years of history. She also left out the part about the delicious adrenaline flavour found in dog meat. She navigated this like the Beiyang fleet of 1894.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

adrenaline flavor??? @@bennycarter5249

[@legitbait86]

@xs10shul I second your sentiment, especially how Chey navigated the topic! The biggest thing she taught me from this topic and how she presented it is that when confronted with conflicting morals, try to use relativism to understand (with more of an aim to achieve something more universal to humanity) rather than judging (with the aim of positioning oneself/culture/group within a hierarchy of superiority). While achieving universal morality may be a pipe dream, I think more empathy can at least remove the negative stereotypes we hold about one another💕

[@marzipancutter8144]

@@bennycarter5249 There's times where I'm ready to get into an 8 hour deep dive about dog meat, but not today. I think it's good that she kept it condensed.

[@jessicapace9689]

Eating them is one thing another is another, kidnapping them from ppls backyards and also another issue is how the conditions of the animals are which can be disgusting and horrible. Look up the videos and also ADV China and the china show , shows evidence and yes there the same ppl. They love china but they speak on good and bad issues. The treatment of the animals is to me the one of the biggest problems, and kidnapping which the Chinese ppl who get there dogs stolen also hate

[@TessaAvonlea]

I've always found it strange that people think eating dogs is uniquely wrong. I've grown up with pet rabbits and i can accept that some people see rabbits as food, even if i would never ever eat it myself. So many people seem to think making jokes about "rabbit stew" when they find out about my pets is amusing. I usually counter them with a comment for dog stew if they have one, which usually shuts them up.

[@Doc_Fun]

I'd guess it's because we've co-existed with dogs for so long that we've sort of molded them to be like us. So eating them almost seems like pseudo-cannibalism in a way. It's kinda like eating a chimp or something. Much as I like rabbits, I just can't see it as the same. This is coming from someone who has never owned a rabbit though, so I admit I'm probably being somewhat biased here.

[@oliviaazevedo3665]

Im a rabbit owner too and I get those jokes all the time, like I don’t understand why anyone would wanna eat harmless adorable furballs but thats just me lol

[@caitlinw8351]

i’m a horse person but i see eating horses as (in some cases) equal to eating cows. i’m fine with dog eating but dogs do feel different.. maybe cause they aren’t herbivores?

[@theConcernedWyvern]

I have ducks and have had chickens and turkeys in the past and I can't stand it when people make jokes about eating them. They're my babies. While I've got nothing against eating birds, these ones are clearly important to me, so it's just inconsiderate for someone to imply that they or I would eat animals that are essentially my children. I think I might start using the "dog stew" comeback haha.

[@Pandazillaaa]

​@@theConcernedWyvernif you had chickens would you eat them your basically supporting cognitive dissonance if we can't eat chickens than you can eat ducks. But I guess it's not ok sense chickens are chickens that are only just like ducks and ducks are your pets huh?

[@Rubin82]

When you guys mentioned being embarrassed about your lunch as a kid. It reminded me of a couple scenes from my Big Fat Greek Wedding. Toula is a 2nd gen American of Greek immigrants and in her childhood flashbacks she was bullied for her lunch at school by a clique of blonde girls and wishes she ate something more "normal" like a sandwich. In her glow up montage when she takes off her glasses and does makeup and goes to community college, she puts herself out there by having lunch with a group of blonde women. An obvious callback to the childhood scenes. And she pulls out a plain old sandwich! Eating with glee knowing she's finally "fits in". That little detail has always irked me cuz nowadays it can be interpreted that Toula erased part of her identity in order to feel happy, it could've been another Greek dish and avoid that depressing interpretation. I'll give the movie the benefit of the doubt though because it's all about her struggling to accept her Greek and American part of her identity, which I think she did by the end of the movie. But Toula is still figuring it out in the middle of the plot when she glows up, so she's suppressing it with a sandwich.

[@bennycarter5249]

They should have ended the moving with her accepting the part of Greek culture that involves torturing dogs and skinning them alive. Oh wait, that doesn't exist in Greek culture.

[@pillbugm8914]

I really like the movie and I don't mind the scene, because, as you said, she's still trying to reconcile her greek identity with her American identity. In fact, at that point in the movie she's actively trying to distinguish herself from her greek heritage, and it's over the course of planning the wedding and the acceptance that Ian shows that she comes to reconcile these parts of herself.

[@nightowl7261]

@bennycarter5249 But it does exist in American culture at the slaughter house

[@jellyrolly]

the lunch time scene was a bit painful to watch. while i never grew up bullied for my lunch, i did get asked questions of what they were. the questions were innocent, but sometimes irritating. however another girl who is chinese (i am korean btw) got made fun of to the point where this white guy and a chinese canadian kid (yes, a chinese kid out of them all!) threw her food into the rubbish bin. it was a disgusting memory from my childhood.

[@OG-zc2zj]

I lived in china and have family members in china, and this issue is very controversial in china as well. The biggest issue about it though is that a lot of dog meat comes from stolen pet dogs. Dog thief is literally a profession in china. They steal people's pet dogs and sell them to restaurants who then kill the pets for meat.

[@OG-zc2zj]

I really wish you would have talked about that part. A lot of dog meat in china is obtained illegally through stealing people's pets, that's a very large part of the market so I feel like you can't just not talk about that and make the entire issue about whether dogs are equal to other animals. Although I agree it's completely unreasonable to be racist toward chinese people due to these issues as I'm also chinese, when American Chinese people who never really lived in china like a normal citizen defend aspects of China like this it feels like it's coming from a very privileged place. I have been through child abuse by elementary school teachers in china and have had chinese people who never actually went to school in china say that I'm ungrateful for my culture and upbringing when I say I prefer schools in Canada.

[@pong9000]

There are many situations where "pet" dogs or puppies will be given to people to just take them away. All the nice solutions cost money. So I expect a steady supply of pet dogs becoming food. If you're looking for monsters this could all appear sinister.

[@automatic5]

​@@pong9000not "appear". it is quite sinister

[@Li_Tobler]

@@OG-zc2zj I mean what did you expect, the video was clearly made for propaganda purposes to make them look better than they are 🤷🏻‍♀ This careful omission was pretty much deliberate you know

[@earlofpants]

ongod idk how you can talk about this issue in china without talking about the dog thieves, seems kinda intentionally propagandistic

[@bethwilkins9506]

In regards to eating animals in general, I saw an article recently where some scientists were able to grow chicken meat in a lab, without slaughtering an actual chicken. If that practice becomes viable enough that the average person could buy lab-grown meat in the grocery store, I wonder how, or if, that will affect the debate on whether it's okay to eat animals. For me personally, if I had the option to eat real meat without killing an animal I'd be all for it. I eat animal protein for health reasons, but I sympathize with people who are vegetarian for moral reasons.

[@otaku-chan4888]

If I were to answer honestly, I'd say I'm a non-vegetarian because I like the taste of certain meats. I don't eat meat that I don't like the taste of- hence I do eat meat if I like its flavor and it's helping my body rather than killing it. So if- lab-grown meat were to taste just as good as animal meat and had just as many health benefits- yeah I'd stop eating animal meat. No reason to continue

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

Lmao no lab grown meat is for the far future we aren’t even close to making lab meat viable

[@theConcernedWyvern]

Same here! I'm super excited about the propects of lab grown meats since they could also make more expensive meats far more accessible to the average person. It would hopefully reduce factory farming and, therefore, reduce animal suffering and carbon emissions while also taking up less space. While I don't have much of a choice as to whether I eat meat now, as I live with my family and don't make a lot of money, I try to be as vegetarian as possible on my own. Hopefully I'll get the best of both worlds some day.

[@leanneissoboring776]

Same. I went vegetarian for a year and I wanted to keep going so bad but I became so malnourished bc I couldn’t afford the expensive meat alternatives. If there was another way I would choose it in a heart beat.

[@DruzyFairy]

Lab grown meat actually has been approved to be served in chain restaurants in California, im not sure if its active yet but this is becoming a reality. As a vegan this topic is really interesting to me because i see an opportunity for a cruelty free future, however unfortunately I frequented quite a few threads about its approval in California and overall the response was very very non receptive. Meat eaters at large seem to rebuke this concept, i saw hundreds of people blatantly saying they will not eat lab grown meat because its not natural, which directly insinuates that they not only are aware that their food requires taking a life; but they also want to know they have taken a life when they buy the product. The concept of one life becoming many through artificial engineering is unacceptable to them, but they will still guzzle frozen bags of processed borderline not safe for human consumption mystery products daily. I digress, i don’t believe lab grown meat will ever catch because humanity as a whole is a selfish, egotistical, and brutal organism. Ur a real one for being open to it tho

[@MichelleAiello]

I will always remember when VICE released a video of David Cross eating dog meat in China. It was on the VICE guide to travel. I think David tried to find humor in it ("haha, you're so cute, I could eat you up") but it was clear that he was disturbed by it and regretted the decision.

[@bennycarter5249]

Probably because he knew the dog was tortured soon before being served up to him.

[@LucasDimoveo]

@@bennycarter5249tortured?

[@EmperorSarco]

There's a huge cultural and economic difference.

[@thecoedbutcher52]

There's no way to describe the amount of poverty there is in this world.

[@jaredmcdaris7370]

I think this particular topic can be a very useful segue into discussing systemic critique (vs individual morality). Experience suggests to me that a looooooooot of people have a hard time squaring their moral convictions with their actions when it comes to eating, and a big part of me suspects that if plant-based nutrition were as universal, as accessible, as “normal” as meat-based nutrition (or, dare to dream, even more-so), a lot more people would have habits that reflect their convictions. But that, of course, would require systemic reforms.

[@mr-x7689]

And for humanity to evolve away from acually having a physical need for nutrition derived from meat. Given as humans are Omnivores and only get cetrain things from meat, which can't be gained from plants. But hey we got suppliments (Cough, comes also from the same meat sourses, cough) But who cares, eating meat is morally wrong because animals can feel things. Which plants allso do, acording to sientists. So i guess we need to stop eating entierly. After all don't plants have the right to live whitout humans terrorising and murdering them for being a food sourse?!

[@morighani]

absolutely. it takes a lot of cognitive dissonance to have a meat-centric life and bash those who practice a plant based diet. It shouldn’t be an identity crisis inducing experience like our society makes it. It’s extremely easy to incorporate a myriad of veggie options in most menus but businesses just won’t. When they start it’ll be very encouraging for people considering becoming plant based. I do think the future will be majority plant-based. There’s too many studies done about how many problems that would solve in our society. hoping for a greener future

[@userequaltoNull]

@@morighani Do you even know what cognitive dissonance means?? How are "eating meat" and "bashing vegans" remotely contradictory concepts?

[@CinnamonGrrlErin1]

30:30 I lived and worked on a small farm for years and it certainly gives you an interesting perspective on the farm to table life. We just made sure to treat the chickens and turkeys and goats with respect and kindness and be mindful about how they were processed and be thankful when we ate dinner.

[@bennycarter5249]

Im assuming you didn't boil them alive?

[@EgoFeederz]

@@bennycarter5249 As someone else pointed out to you, you are thinking of crabs and lobsters.

[@LennardCruce]

@@EgoFeederz Back when I was a kid I watched a live pig get boiled before being roasted whole. That wasn't enough to stop me from eating pork tho. The only time I wasn't able to eat was when a friend's "pet" pig which we happily played with and kinda treated as a part of the gang got slaughtered by his parents for his birthday.

[@ornenow4703]

​@bennycarter5249 What is your actual purpose of leaving these ridiculous questions/comments under every comment? You're not actually making any points, you're just being a weirdo

[@Pandazillaaa]

​@@LennardCrucethat pig could've been part of your stupid little gang too.

[@scream_kinh614]

I remember this coming up in my socratic seminar class. Im not even asian but have been learning chinese for the entirety of my elementary school life, and it boils my blood to hear these stereotypes STILL passed casually around. I had to butt in and tell people the class based reasoning behind the eating of "weird food" in other places, but alot of american people are far too privileged to see what poverty ACTUALLY means in alot of places. Its frustrating being here.

[@bennycarter5249]

Astute observation. Note that Cheyenne omits the proximate cause of poverty in China that being Communism. The greatest famine in human history happened 70 years ago in China and she conveniently leaves that out.

[@bennycarter5249]

Its frustrating seeing you delete all my comments, Cheyenne

[@jinolin9062]

@@bennycarter5249oh youtube does that some times, but i dunno man i feel like a video about dogs isn't obligated to talk about a famine like I necassarily wouldn't talk about emus in a vib ab the austrilian economy.

[@Ghdfshhs]

​@@bennycarter5249It wasn't the greatest famine in human history, it happened 70 years ago and they haven't had that issue since, and they've essentially eliminated extreme poverty since then. The communist party isn't the problem.

[@SammehMarley]

@@Ghdfshhs Nah it's just sheer coincidence that everywhere that tries that dumb shit, ends up starving & broke. Weird how that works, eh?

[@LON009]

There are people in my country that eat guinea pigs, worms, ants, snakes, lizards, monkeys, and cats too. And yet, when I say that I don't eat chicken, people look at me like some kind of degenerate 😂. I've never liked its taste, what can I do?

[@piplupz1586]

It's crazy, people are baffled by others not eating a single bird species for every meal on mass. The ubiquity of chicken is crazy. Americans seem to almost religiously narrow their pallet down as much as possible.

[@bennycarter5249]

In your country do they torture the animals first?

[@LON009]

@@bennycarter5249 Of course not.

[@ongakira]

@@piplupz1586as a non-american (born in japan, currently lived in america) In america, where most people eat chicken (and not just chicken) it’s gonna be kinda surprising when someone says they don’t eat it. cultural differences apply to every country except america for some reason.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

what do monkeys taste like? sinewy?

[@camelionpen]

It's interesting how in central europe, this stereotype holds itself while Switzerland is RIGHT THERE and still has people eating Dogs as a traditional Christmas meal. Of course in Times of need, People have also been recorded eating Animals usually considered Pets. It irks me when other vegans over here people perpetuate this stereotype instead of talking about issues right in front of our doorsteps.

[@kakumee]

Even eating normal sandwiches didn't save me in elementary and middle school. I was told (teased) I eat dog.....even if I eat the same free and reduced lunch as the other kids I'd still get teased.....in middle school I just bought bags of chips, a youhoo drink, and broght Walmart soda water and Walmart beef sticks (the round slim Jim kind) for snacks....

[@thecoedbutcher52]

You mean to tell me kids are mean. What no. Never. That couldn't be. You must be lying to me. No, kids are angels and would never act like that

[@SigmaShrek69]

​@@thecoedbutcher52bahaahaha are you dumb? Kids nowadays are saying the n word and thinking it's funny. It was the hardest thing trying to escape middle school and I was so stressed and anxious I had to get therapy. No kids are not angels. Some can be but you need to see the modern society nowadays. It's horrifying how messed up children are because of the Internet. I'm just trying to get you to open your eyes 👀❤. Oh yeah I saw a gang of kids about 12 buying Coke (the drug) and having VODKA in their hands. Love you just wanted to educate you more

[@nelthepisces]

Amazing video essay as always. Food for thought, literally lol. The morality of eating animals is something that comes into my mind almost every single time I eat meat. I'm not sure whether or not I consider it justified, but in my opinion, the only difference between which animals are acceptable or not to eat is social norms.

[@tomd6704]

Meat is not ok. Stop supporting the worst industries. It is not necessary.🐂🐣🐕. Animals have a form of exiatence that is not for us. They are something in themselves. We should not exploit them.

[@mr-x7689]

The only thing related to morality when it comes to eat any thing, animal or plant based. Is "Did it suffer". Humans are omnivores. A fancy word for those who never heard of it, stands for we need and can eat both plant and meat. There are things in meat our boddies and brains need to properly function, and there are things in plants we need to properly function too. You can substitude some of it whit supplements today. But they still end up comming from animals/plants to begin whit. (Even to you may not see it on any labels/packaging) So if you question the morality of eating meat, i suggest you try to find a farmer who you feel you can trust about treating their animals well, and then sends them to a good butcherer, who humanly put's the animal down. Or find a Hunter/fisher nerby where you live.

[@tomd6704]

@@mr-x7689 people do not need to be omnivores. Just name one thing that you can get from meat that a vegan doet does not contain for me please. Maybe you are more educated than I am. If you cannot name one thing, then why is it right to take these lives when it is not necessary?

[@beastvg123]

​@mr-x7689 humans are omnivorous generalists who can eat pretty much whatever they have available to them. Nobody needs to eat animal products unless they are in an extreme survival situation. There is no ethical way to use animals.

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

vitamin b12@@tomd6704

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

we've selectively bred dogs to love us. it doesn't make them more worthy of life than a cow or a pig. it just explains some of this. there are scientific links we have with dogs through our long co-evolution that make us closer to each other socially than us and other domesticated intelligent animals. we even know now that our abilities to understand each other's facial expressions particularly well has settled into our actual DNA and makes us more skilled at interpreting dog's expressions than those of other primates despite the close genetic relation.

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

@@jush-yw6vb oh, absolutely 👍

[@Zlimaflima]

Even dogs bred for food? Also, how does a dog's love differ from that of a cow's, pig's or lamb's?

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

@@Zlimaflima good question. i think these attributes of seeking out humans, desire to please us, relatively easy submissiveness, to name a few examples, predated any instances of modern alternate, less social purposes. we certainly can form deep bonds with other animals, especially intelligent ones like cows, horses, pigs, rats, corvids. i think part of the reason we have co-evolved closer with them as compared to others is that not only are they very versatile in their abilities, but they are very easy to co-habitat with, esp for an animal, an advantage that horses haven't evolved enjoying for instance. did that help?

[@Zlimaflima]

@colorbugoriginals4457 I think cows do those things as well when they have favorite humans. To me, animals are animals and as long as innocent animals aren't being tortured or bullied- I don't see why humans can't eat cats or dogs.

[@colorbugoriginals4457]

@@Zlimaflima sure, a lot of domestic or rescued animals have similar behaviors toward humans, but that's only one of the factors. being able to read each other's facial expressions is one of the most important. some other animals are good at that too and you'll find exceptions to everything. as i said, it's not as if it makes one or another more worthy of living, it just explains why this is more taboo than even eating other popular pet animals like parakeets and guinea pigs. similar situation with horse meat, in my experience.

[@johannesschutz780]

tbh whenever it was brought up to me that in China dogs are being eaten too the line of thought was "you wouldn't eat a dog because you consider him a friend, yet people in China eat dogs. You have no qualms eating beef, but in India cows are considered holy. What does a dog have that other animals don't?" A couple years back there was a big scandal in Germany when it turned out that the frozen lasagna of a particular brand contained horse meat (which needed to have been listed among the ingredients). You had people saying "eww disgusting I could never eat a horse I LOVE horses" on one side and "we used to eat horse every other week back in my days and it was delicious" on the other.

[@iara0]

I feel like you have made an oversight here. It's not just USA that has given dogs a protected status and criticizes China for it: The rest of the world does this as well. From South America to Europe. Everybody has given dogs a protected status and they mock Chinese citizens as much as USA does. THis is a global case and should be viewed as such, without limiting to just one country.

[@ColineROBERTMESTAIS-mj1um]

Yes and it's dumb ! I'm french and the last dog butcher closed in Germany after WW2. And they used to exist in all Europ. We just forgot we did it too... because food is food. It's a contemporain thing. Humans are quick to believe they have "higher" morals than others, while if you checked what grandma did... you would be horrified.

[@drowndrawn8836]

I think the main point of the "dog eating" moral problem is the question of whether or not by increasing another animal's right to live and wishing to apply it universally (a very western thing) we are actually dehumanizing other humans (bacause that's what racism is) and opening up a path in which their lives are considered less valueble than the animal mentioned by allowing all types of violence (and apologia to it) to happen to them.

[@Pandazillaaa]

We are.

[@merelymayhem]

the map of the un vote of what country disagreed on making food a human right it's truly something

[@pong9000]

A lot of UN votes go like that, with the opposing bloc of US, Israel, and a single bribed micro-state like Nauru. The pirate Edward Teach (Blackbeard) was asked why for no apparent reason during dinner he grabbed a musket and shot his first mate in the leg. Blackbeard explained that if he didn't do something like that from time to time, people would forget who he was. It's not supposed to reflect US ideals or be rational. It's just to mess with the General Assembly, to show they can.

[@otaku-chan4888]

that actually made me double-take lol. wtf is wrong with the US

[@hominhmai5325]

If it requires another to give it to u its not a right

[@pong9000]

@@hominhmai5325 In an agreement between parties, something given can be called a "right". When you order a cheeseburger it is your right, under the contract, to have cheese; and it is the restaurant's right to be paid. All we do at the UN is form such mutual agreements between signatory countries. At the very least a right shouldn't be taken away, never mind given. This easily applies to food.

[@hominhmai5325]

@@pong9000 go on an isolated island and u will see what rights u have Now stfu 💪

[@Milokissavlk]

I grew up in south Louisiana, a non-Anglo place comparative to the rest of the southern US(but even then what I’m about to say, is also relatively common in the south). I grew up, eating alligator, frogs, turtles, squirrels, and crawfish(though this latter one is less “odd” comparative to the). When I tell people about turtle soup, or the fact we eat squirrels they really do just look at me different and act like I’m from this third World country, even though I’m also from America. I’ve never judged anybody for like the food they eat. I think it’s stupid. We all have our cultural meals and it’s important that we keep those things alive. People in South Louisiana have been eating this long before colonizatio(by the French, though there was an attempt to Anglicize Louisiana creole identity) happen and we have been eating it long after. You eat what you eat when you have to survive.

[@manicpepsicola3431]

Im from Texas and eat similar foods except I've never had turtule but I have had rattlesnake plenty of times. Reptiles are actually delicious.

[@Milokissavlk]

Izzy the only thing of turtle is that depending on the type of turtle they very well could carry salmonella, so you just gotta be careful. But yeah, there’s a lot of different types of meat. Hell even fish that like the majority of Americans won’t eat because they’re “trash fish”.

[@silvio25432]

In the last part of your paragraph, when you say ‘before colonisation’, are you referring to Louisiana colonisation by Anglos? What is the majority ethnic group in Louisiana? - coming from a naive non-American, just a bit confused.

[@Milokissavlk]

@@silvio25432 I was actually talking about before the colonization by the French. For example how we catch crawfish it has changed a lot, but I’ve met people who still use the principles that the Cherokee used. I think the best joke I’ve ever heard is that Louisiana Creole will eat anything that walking, which is true, and it doesn’t need to be walking anymore either for some people. Though not the same as colonization, after the Louisiana purchase, the US has consistently made a massive attempt to Americanized Louisiana. For the most part, it was a success. In the 1920s, the state Constitution for Louisiana basically just banned the teaching of Louisiana Creole or Louisiana French. Today most people in Louisiana don’t speak French it’s not like Montreal. Which leads me into your question about what is the majority ethnicity in Louisiana? And the answer is it’s complicated in combination to how race, skin colour colour, and ethnicity was viewed in Louisiana pre-Louisiana purchase was different to how the the ideals that were brought after the purchase. To quote wiki here because I don’t actually know how to fully explain it but here you go. “In the twentieth century, the free people of colour in Louisiana became increasingly associated with the term Creole, in part because Anglo-Americans struggled with the idea of an ethno-cultural identity not founded in race. One historian has described this period as the "Americanization of Creoles," including an acceptance of the American binary racial system that divided Creoles between white and black.” Or to put in another way that Cajun are white and creole are black. Combined this with America, encouraging Anglo-Americans to move to Louisiana. It’s a difficult question. Being white doesn’t mean you’re not a creole. Alongside this other ethnic groups have moved here, and kind of assimilated into Louisiana Creole culture. Making a pretty interesting combination of Viet-Cajun food, which is delicious and I love it. One of the first and the most wide spending definitions is basically if you have ancestry that have lived in Louisiana pre-Louisiana purchase, probably Louisiana creole. Though a lot of creole also, do you have tri racial (African, indigenous, and European) backgrounds. Why you can have any skin colour and still be a Louisiana creole. Though, with even all of this, I would say, culturally, speaking, Louisiana still is very strongly creole. I’ve talked to a lot of other southerners and yeah, Louisiana is different from its neighbours in the South. You’ll hear people say no Louisiana is not Louisiana mostly because of how Anglicized it is. Because no one wanted to move only a few 50 miles away from the Gulf of Mexico because it’s a swamp over here. We have our vernacular English, we celebrate Mardi Gras every year, we have our own cooking style and food, and so much more. Louisiana is a really vibrant cultural place in the US, as much as it sucks to live there, because the government terrible(no matter what side of the political aisle you’re on, we all are on the agreement that our state government is corrupt). This makes it hard for a lot of things Louisiana used to and still kinda does have oil a lot of big companies came in and did a lot of big spills and messed up stuff. Combined this with global warming the Bayou and the swamps that have historically kept the whole state, safe from hurricanes that system it has over there is beginning to fail. Rising sea levels have disproportionately affected members of the United Houma Nation, and from my understanding have been the first really big group of people to lose their land to rising sea levels, though they do stay well why wouldn’t they? It’s their home. I can’t really say it’s getting better though the corruption that was very much rampant from the mafia in the 90s has my understanding got away for the most part though corruption still runs deep with lobbying and the massive gerrymandering problem our state has. Did simplify it all down America will Americanize everything it can, simulating it into the “white” identity. You saw it in Canada and the US with residential schools for the indigenous population, but a very more clear example of it would be Italian, Jews and, the Irish. I’m sorry about this being so long, died, hoping at least she find it interesting

[@silvio25432]

@@Milokissavlk wow, thank you so much for that incredibly detailed response, I appreciate it a lot, I can tell you are really educated on the topic. It’s quite an interesting case then regarding what it means to be a member of an ethnic group, how a language can be a bad indicator of ethno-cultural identity. I’m sure there are similar examples in post-colonial countries; but also in countries that have minority languages within them, such as Italy, where the main Italian language was imposed on communities that didn’t even speak the language, and their cultures were vastly different (I.e. Northern Italy being more french/Central European inspired and south Italy being more North African/Mediterranean inspired). It really shines a light on how people latch on these empty signifiers and labels such as race and language, treating them as some concrete biological inherent sign of your selfhood, as an indicator of your ethnic makeup, but even these categories are just artificial/arbitrary stamps that are often ahistorical to the more organic culture of a community.

[@emilia_calderonki]

En algunas zonas de Perú, (sobretodo andinas como Cusco) se come el cuy, generalmente conocido como conejillo de Indias. Este animal es una fuente de alimento importante para muchas familias sin embargo a los ojos del mundo se crea al rededor de las personas que lo consumen, la fama de ignorantes o salvajes. Lamentablemente la mismas personas que suelen señalar con el dedo a los consumidores de este animal, son también personas que comen carne de otros animales “socialmente aceptados” para consumo. La moral con la que se permiten juzgar a personas andinas y cuyo plato tradicional viene de la época del incanato es absurda.

[@PeterIsATeacher]

I''mma translate because this comment is important for everyone who doesn't google translate: In some areas of Peru (especially Andean areas like Cusco) they eat "cuy", generally known as guinea pig. This animal is an important source of food for many families, however in the eyes of the world the reputation of being ignorant or savages is created around the people who consume it. Unfortunately, the same people who tend to point the finger at the consumers of this animal are also people who eat meat from other “socially accepted” animals for consumption. The morality with which they allow themselves to judge Andean people whose traditional dish comes from the Inca era is absurd. END OF TRANSLATION. As a Mexican American, I know of people who go "Ew you eat X?" While happily eating rabbit or goat. Or deer. Or Squirrel. Gator. Horse. Heck, I'm pretty sure Aztecs did eat dogs way back when. People need protein and if it's an animal that is treated humanely and killed quickly and cleanly, who cares. I eat pig and chicken and beef. If an animal was humanely raised with the purpose of eating it, it's the same as any other livestock animal imo.

[@iamjustkiwi]

Cuy is a great source of meat that is way way more environmentally friendly, but people are very close minded if it's not something normal where they grew up. I raised meat rabbits for a while here in the US and people were pretty weird about it because "cute bunnies are pets".

[@bennycarter5249]

Dime. ?Los Peruanos suelen torturar el cuy antes de cocinarlo? ?Se los hirven vivos?

[@mr-x7689]

@@PeterIsATeacher I dont see how any one could eat guinnie pigs. Not as in "Aw they are cute, and its morally wrong" but rather as someone who had a few of them as pets as a kid, and they barely got any meat on them. same goes for squirrels. there's so little meat on those things, that i would feel it's not worth the time or effort trying to make food on them. BUUUT.... then granted i don't know the dish or how it's prepared so, meaby there is some "Food" magic involved. So as far as i care. Eat what you want to eat. Just dont make the thing suffer, simply imagine your selfe in it's place. IF you HAD to be somthings food, you probaly would like it to be fast and painless right?

[@oceansolstice608]

@@bennycarter5249 bro you reply under every comment 💀

[@kaliland9296]

I used to live in China and I was once in Anshun for a vacation with my boyfriend at the time. We wanted to go see the Huangguoshu waterfall (which was incredibly breath-taking). We were in a taxi that was taking us to the waterfall and on the road we were on, there were a ton of restaurants with pictures on the front of the kind of meat they had. The first ones had pictures of chicken, cow, I even want to say I saw a picture of an alligator (it was definitely some kind of reptile). And then the restaurants started to have pictures of dogs on them. As a non-meat eater, I personally don't see the difference in eating any kind of meat. I did find it funny though that the picture that they chose to advertise the dog meat was a golden retriever.

[@aishahb8336]

Phenomenal essay, I really enjoyed this one!

[@Peaches-i2i]

I don't think dogs should be eaten for food, but I won't blame people that are hungry or poor for resorting to eating them. Pets are just an affluence thing, they are luxuries. As more Chinese come out of poverty and into wealth they own more pets and are now against eating dogs. Interestingly the Swiss have a traditional practice of eating dogs with 3% of the population, usually the rural poor, but it's rarely mentioned or associated with all whites.

[@cinnamonkitty3809]

mixing cultural analysis with history is my favorite! great video

[@catmanmenace]

I'm Icelandic but my mom is American. When she lived here, she always refused to eat horse meat (which is very common here) because she was a long-time horse girl. I'm a vegetarian myself, I think I see all animals with the level of sacredness people usually place on dogs, although I don't judge people for eating them. Nature, diet, morality, are all complicated. As humans we have this idea of ethics and moral reasoning, but it's informed by us being animals - we, like our closest relatives in chimpanzees and bonobos, live complex social lives, depend on our groups to survive, and suffer loneliness if we're isolated, so we will often have very high empathy and a desire to help others. We don't want to be eaten, so we typically don't want other humans to be eaten, it reminds us that we're meat, both us as individuals and the people we depend on and care for. We anthropormorphize non-human animals as a consequence of our empathy, and we also know rationally that all life wants to survive. That's why many of us are vegan or vegetarian. But these are all human emotions, in nature there is no inherent sanctity of life, life is beautiful and worth protecting because we make it so in our minds. A solution doesn't exist because consumption of almost any food that isn't fruit is a form of unavoidable violence. I choose to eat vegetables, which don't want to be eaten either and may have inner lives we're only beginning to understand, because they don't have friendly faces I can easily empathize with. I eat fungi even though they are closer to animals and some may have some capacity for cognition. I eat factory farmed eggs even though the chickens who lay them are abused. It's all about my comfort, which is how we should look at our disgust over dog eating.

[@Shel230]

There's so much anti blackness in the Asian community and her husband doesn't even look black he's a white Brazilian not even a black one like wow that's crazy Asian people are very anti black

[@smolchilli1712]

In my opinion, a lot of the modern vegan movement is a reaction to the capitalistic model of factory farming. It treats all meat as inherently exploitative when, I think, for much of human history it was a much more reciprocal relationship. We, too, are animals that eat other animals in order to sustain ourselves. It comes from a rather colonial mindset which is why a lot of white vegans tend be quite racist and pretentious, they often don't come from cultural backgrounds where they have family members who are farmers and know of a way to raise animals for food that isn't inherently cruel for profit. Indigenous peoples all around the world have practised this method of ethical and sustainable animal husbandry for centuries until they were invaded by europeans. And now the descendants of those europeans have the nerve to call indigenous hunting practices "barbaric" it's almost laughable. To expand further, people have been eating guinea pigs and alpacas in south america for literal millennia because these animals are native to those ecosystems. Cows, pigs and chickens are foreign animals brought over from europe. Colonizers have so thoroughly committed cultural genocide that eating these animals are considered strange. And just before anyone accuses me of being anti-vegan, I'm not. Where ever factory farming is the norm, it's the best thing to cut down your meat consumption as much as you can. I just get frustrated when people make sweeping generalizations to say that all meat consumption is inherently evil.

[@EphemeralTao]

Very well said.

[@nap-nezumi]

I don't believe it can be moral to kill a sentient being that wants to live. I wouldn't say meat consumption is evil, but I don't consider it moral. If that makes me pretentious, so be it.

[@EphemeralTao]

@@nap-nezumi The problem with this is how do you define sentience? Where do you draw the line between sentient and non-sentient? Is there even a hard line between the two, or gradually-changing degrees of sentience?

[@prixe12]

@@nap-nezumi Plants feel pain too. They can even communicate, are we also immoral for eating them? Should we all just switch to photosynthesis.

[@pong9000]

The pain argument doesn't work as vegans would like it to. If it's what percent of the neurons are lit up in agony, then a rudimentary animal such as an earthworm cut by a shovel has the entirety of its being in 100% pain, while a creature with cerebrum at least has cognitive escape. Boasting more grey matter rather makes sensory nerves less dominant.

[@p3tit3m3lusin3]

I'm italian and it's common knowledge here that during the wars people used to eat cats because they couldn't afford other types of meat. But also wheter it's out of necessity or not it's just stupid and arrogant to value the life of one animal over another. Pigs are way smarter than a lot of animals also so that doesn't really make sense with the "dogs are smart" argument. Great video btw!!!

[@Maya-hw2ny]

omg cheyenne upload :o today is good :) ALSO OLISUNVIA AND AINI ARE WONDERFUL TOO

[@goldfish6757]

holy shit this was fascinating, u went into way more depth than i realised was possible. i found the universal morality section really interesting, esp because of kant and singer. that kant quote is pretty interesting when u know that he also said “he who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. we can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals” and singers whole sentience philosophy is crazy to navigate, because he uses it to justify the theoretical killings of kids with down syndrome since he thinks they have less sentience/intelligence than the average ape. he goes from saying that animals like dogs deserve our respect to straight up eugenics. i think this links to what u touched on with white people liking dogs more than black people, in that there’s a discussion to be had on how we value animals in comparison to humans

[@EphemeralTao]

Oh crap, forgot just how bad Singer is. I did comment about the internal inconsistencies in his philosophy of animal rights, but completely forgot he used the same arguments to justify eugenics against disabled people.

[@ah-sh9dw]

As a huge animal lover (and no, not just the cute ones) people often tell me the reason it's okay to eat animals and not people is intelligence. However that logic does lead to eugenics, it's kind of a flaw in the mainstream justifications of meat eating. Personally I don't think other animals are less intelligent than humans, it's just that compared to other animals we excel at communicating, creating, and sharing Edit: also with the whole treating oppressed groups worse thing I think it's because they're a threat to society. Keeping one group of humans subjugated to another group is something that needs to be actively enforced because, unlike animals, humans can recognize the injustice and use communication, creation, and sharing to fight back and change society

[@Blurredborderlines]

@@ah-sh9dw The animals may be smarter than you I'm sorry to say

[@larissabrglum3856]

If I recall correctly, the US had laws against animal (dog) abuse before it had laws against child or spouse abuse.

[@gothgrrl8711]

I have chickens as pets, I care for them everyday. One time one went missing and i searched for hours for her. Finally found her and broke down in tears of relief. Despite this I eat chicken almost daily. One day i would like to cut meat out of my diet of course but yeah, it's weird how we put animals into arbitrary hierarchies based on their usefulness. Dogs and cats are seen as useful since they may ward off predators and catch pests, but other animals are only seen as useful for their meat or hides. There's also the cuteness factor i guess.

[@cheekyguza]

Mad respect for the reaserach and the script,such a great video! Chef's kiss if I may say so👌 P.s yess the theme for the next one!

[@bennycarter5249]

Her 'research' leaves out 100 years of Cinese history.

[@urmwhynot]

South Koreas ruling party will introduce a bill into parliament this year to ban the consumption of dog meat. It is expected to pass. Personally, I think a lot of the protest is around the condition the animals are kept in before being slaughtered. There are no regulations. Many dogs are stolen pets or are strays and the practice is overall more costly than the demand could reasonably justify. It is a self defeating practice in a modern global economy like that of South Korea. This was a fantastic video.

[@Lando-kx6so]

It's also a massive change in culture

[@bennycarter5249]

Spot on analysis

[@anny8720]

If regulated breeding for consumption was made standard while banning pet stealing and using strays I'd imagine there'd be a different kind of outrage (potentially in favor of raising all animal slaughterhouse and farm conditions?) But probably net positive for South Korea to ban it alltogether

[@abbyabroad]

I’m a US citizen. I live in Beijing and know that there is a North Korean restaurant here where they serve dog, but it’s not widespread practice. I’ve been avoiding this video because I do live in China and I know it’s not common but does happen in some regions, but the Haitian immigrants rumors have made me consider the whole issue of speciesism again & so I came here to see what you put together. I really appreciate the points you made in regards to white pet ownership in particular. I have always thought it was odd when people (usually white social activists) seemed to care a lot more about animal rights than humans’, and that bothers me. For better or worse, I’m mostly vegetarian now and find the whole conversation fascinating. (I do eat fish sometimes.) Anyhow, thanks for sharing such a well-thought-out video! (Edited to fix a typo & remove an overshare.)

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

Pigs and squid /octopus are highly intelligent but it's considered normal and uncontroversial to farm and eat them. Culture can really influence what we see as normal vs abhorrent. Just look at religion.

[@larissabrglum3856]

That's a really good point about octopus. They are absurdly intelligent creatures, but eating octopus doesn't get nearly the outrage that eating dog does.

[@hominhmai5325]

Intelligence isnt a factor to consider food

[@dinoseen3226]

​@@hominhmai5325So it's ok to eat humans? I assume no, but if not due to moral worth born of intelligence, why not?

[@hominhmai5325]

@@dinoseen3226 its because cattles and poultries are easy to raise, eat scrap or stuff humans do not eat, and are strictly for their meat and related stuff. U dont use cows to guard homes or hunting

[@FafnirSiggurdson]

I went to my wife’s city in yizhou, Guangxi China and right across from her family’s rice noodle shop was a dog meat restaurant. I lived in China for 3.5 years, and dog meat shops exist, but it is somewhat rare in modern times except in Guangxi and guangdong provinces

[@abbyabroad]

Yeah I’m in Beijing and wish people understood that Guangdong province is known for the most extreme types of eating in the country. It is NOT something done everyday in the rest of the area.

[@umairahfaridfaisal2778]

There's also this desensitization done by the West over their animals. The tone of asking this question has that implication that no, they don't treat cows as equal to dogs, and that's sad because humans who raise and slaughter cows for self or community sustenance have a respect and reverence towards these animals they do eat. No part of the animal goes to waste as a sign of respect to the life these animals had given. Even if other people ate different types of animals, why is it an automatic assumption that these animals are not revered and given respect as a life just because they're reared or hunted for meat? It's that the nature of suburbia made it easier for people to become rabid consumers of meats from animals they rarely interact with. Desensitizing them from the fact that it was once an animal. Distancing themselves from the time and effort and care it takes to raise a living thing and to properly process it's products for use and consumption. It's easier for overconsumption to be a thing when the person buying is distant from the process. So it's both a 'dogs are animal friends' and 'we eat cows but lets forget cows are animals needing time and effort to raise, and thus given respect, before they are slaughtered' thing

[@pseudodidact3956]

So glad you made this video! You made a lot of interesting points and I liked the history lesson as well. Personally, I think there’s 2 reasons why *generally* we shouldn’t eat dogs: 1.) We coevolved with them - they helped us hunt and warned us of animals that could harm us. We grew dependent on their help and them keeping watch while we were busy, and they grew dependent on us feeding them. This mutualism became so strong that it generationally bonded us physiologically, making us produce oxytocin whenever we interact positively with one another. A cow, chicken, or pig could not have filled the role of a dog is those ancient times, and playing “what if?” thought experiments doesn’t change our current reality where dogs were the ones that we coevolved with. 2.) This is more subjective and personal, but I feel we have a moral obligation to treat dogs humanely, because we bred them to be dependent on us. For us to build up that generational trust, only for us to betray that trust, I feel, is immoral. We took away their chances of surviving on their own, so therefore we have an obligation to aid them in their survival. That being said, I can see there being justifiable reasons to eat a dog. Impoverished people having to eat “immoral” meat to live and the Inuit peoples having to mainly use meat as their sustenance is why I don’t think veganism should be an obligation, but rather a virtue. I try to reduce my meat consumption as best as I can. Maybe I’ll go vegan one day, but I need to be more financially stable.

[@lunaverse4977]

We've done the same thing to sheep though, bred them so their wool doens't naturally shed so we have to shear them or else it just keeps growing, becoming incredibly uncomfortable and even dangeorus for their health in the matter of a few years. I don'tthink therecan be a really objective way to say that eating dogs is so uniquely more immoral than eating other animals that eating, say, pigs shoud have no moral weight at all but eating dogs makes you a monster. But i do get how someone with a pet might feel that way. I was horsegirl as a child, and i refuse to eat horse meat, even though i know that from an objecitve point of view (if such a thing as objective morality exists at all) there's no meaningful difference.

[@pseudodidact3956]

@@lunaverse4977 And you’re right. I personally don’t eat sheep or goats and I’m put off when other people eat them; however, I’m not morally outraged which is hypocritical on my part. The hardest part about being an animal lover who eats meat is having to navigate through the cognitive dissonance. Especially when one tries to justify their meat consumption and denounce someone else’s. I don’t believe everyone who eats dog meat is inhuman or a monster; however, I’d be lying if I said it didn’t make me upset. I think this cognitive dissonance is a really good example of how capitalism can make someone act in opposition to their own ethical beliefs by having corporations affect our socialization, manipulate us through marketing, and giving us cheaper (usually unethically sourced) products for our needs.

[@anny8720]

Yeah like the other reply said, by definition all domesticated animals have been bred to be dependent on humans so dogs aren't that special in this sense. I remember seeing this chart with every domesticated animal saying why do we draw the line 'here' at pet vs farm animals for consumption. It makes our treatment of pigeons a bit sad though, they used to be popular pets then messenger birds but their reputation was assassinated by some dude using them as scapegoats for disease spreading (they're actually poor vectors for human diseases) and bc they remind us of the nature that we can't control invading our manmade urban spaces. Now people forget pigeons were domesticated and just view them as vermin when we were the ones who brought them here 😔 let pigeons achieve feral/stray cat rep

[@starriknightsky]

As a Chinese person who grew up knowing many people personally that have eaten dogs, I feel like a lot of it comes from there not being a very specific pet culture around dogs, which is slowly changing as dogs become more popular and seen more as pets. Most dogs in China are often strays, or just dogs that people 'own' but they just kinda run around. Some people actually will trap stray dogs and often a pet dog or a dog someone 'owns' - then sells them for the purposes of food, so people are often very scared when their dog gets lost. It's not super common to eat dogs, but I have very often heard of it occuring and I could just go grab some if I wanted to, but obviously I put myself far away from that, as with Shark Fin Soup. Sharks are endangered and people rip their fins off for the dish and let the shark bleed to death, and dogs served are very often either ripped from their families or spent their lives homeless - I don't really want to participate in either of that even though I spent my childhood in china and should just be OK with it like the video suggests. I do have a problem with your interpretation of Moral Relativism though, and how arguing against it is asserting some kind of supremacy over another culture. If morality is just up to the culture and such and you agree to the premises of moral relativism, would you argue that slavery in the way that it existed in the United States is correct, at least at that time, because people of that culture thought it was correct? I wouldn't expect you to, but I also don't think you would think you are supreme over those people, because you two have fundamentally different information. At the time it was argued by some that those of different races are not of the same value as a white man, but we know now that it is simply not true. But no matter what, I don't think that slavery in that period was justified morally. Or even a more recent example, of homophobia, where at least for a while homophobic ideas were the norm, would you argue that it is wrong for allies to stand up against homophobia because "who are we to pass a moral judgement when most of us are straight?" I do agree that eating meat of animals is not very nice to animals and I personally consider it wrong, so it is a moral contradiction that I do eat meat. But I feel that it is hard to be a fully moral person anyways, and most people commit moral wrongs that they know could have negative consequences to others (speeding, cutting in line, buying fast fashion, etc.) but we still do it for our own gain.

[@lloroshastar6347]

I seem to remember a previous video where you said you felt demotivated due to your views and subscriptions dropping. I think that many KZbinrs have high points and low points, but I just wanted to say I appreciate your videos and think you make interesting points and if you felt the desire to end the channel later on then I'm sure we will all respect your decision but we hope you will continue to make videos in future.

[@TheYasmineFlower]

This was really interesting and informative, thank you for your hard work!

[@bennycarter5249]

Hard work? She skips over 1000 year of Chinese history at 11:47. She also left out the touture of Shi-quan to produce adrenaline flavor. Really informative

[@LeperMessiah01234]

The real issue is less that some meat is “bad” morally compared to other meat, but the rampant issue of theft and abuse associated with dog meat production. I know from first hand experience that the majority of dog meat comes from people either stealing dogs/pets from other people or shooting them in the street to use as meat. It’s not an issue of poverty because it’s often fairly wealthy guys who do it almost for sport. Then you end up with the miserable situation where if the owners of the pet are “lucky” they will have to basically ransom the pet back from a 3rd party seller or have it sold as meat. This is extremely common and something no one talks about regarding this issue.

[@Albinojackrussel]

The info is super interesting. I always wondered what the actual culture around dpg eating was like in China, but its hard to find out due to all the moral outrage about the concept. I'd sort of assumed it was like eating rabbit here in the uk, rare and a bit of a novelty, but with a history of being common, making some people uncomfortable but not a major thing. Its fascinating to find out that the moral outrage actually extends into china itself.

[@Barakon]

Mutualistic symbiosis with dogs is why eating them is a betrayal. At least to me.

[@iamjustkiwi]

I feel the same due to also having dogs my entire life, and also because feeding a carnivore to raise for food is extremely inefficient energy wise. It's still not my place to force my ideals on others but it's definitely not something I could ever do.

[@junjunjamore7735]

The only people allowed to be appalled by it are vegans tbh, everyone else are hypocrites. Human have "mutualistic symbiosis" with domesticated farm animals too, they can't live without us.

[@Lando-kx6so]

Dogs literally evolved with us to be companion animals, guardians, & pets all over the world across pretty much all cultures. There's a reason why every culture eats chickens, most eat cows, most eat goats, & most apart from Muslims eat pigs but the vast vast majority do not eat dogs and it's a strong taboo.

[@lynbutnot]

thank you👏👏👏 someone said it!

[@emeraldsuprene183]

Great analysis of the topic! ❤️

[@larissabrglum3856]

What a great video! This should be shown in sociology and philosophy classes! Well done!

[@raggedyanarchist]

The people who like to accuse Chinese people of being dog eaters are quite often the same ones who fill with rage at the mere mention of vegetarianism / veganism ('cos... you know... they're all preachy). If you have no capacity for self-reflection, you're gonna see your morals as the one true set of values everyone should live by, and of COURSE you'd feel the same way even if you weren't born into a culture that largely agrees with you. Though I don't come from a culture where it's acceptable to eat horse or guinea pig, I personally don't see the difference. Guinea pigs were originally domesticated because they're such an efficient source of protein. Really, a docile obedient nature is key to a species becoming domesticated in the first place. We domesticated cows BECAUSE they're gentle and nice and trusting, thus relatively easy to manage. Unfortunately for them though, they require too much space to be a particularly practical pet, and so people just aren't exposed to them like they are to guinea pigs. A weird side-effect of "My Octopus Teacher" becoming such a sensation is a lot of people swore off octopus meat... and once again it's just exposure, paired with the fact that it's pretty easy for most North Americans and Europeans to cut octopus from their diet since octopus isn't really readily available anyway. Remind these octopus saviors that pigs are also really intelligent and maybe they should forgo the pork chops? All hell breaks loose. The one objection I DO have to dog meat over other meats though, and one that never gets brought up in these conversations, isn't cultural, but utilitarian. Dogs are carnivores. To grow a dog up to eating size, you have to feed it several times its weight in animal calories which are, in turn, raised on several times their weight in plant calories, so dog meat production is highly inefficient. But do I value the mind of a dog over that of a chicken? Not really, no.

[@onyxstewart9587]

Dog eating was practiced in Europe up until the mid-20th century. In some European countries you could even find specialist dog meat butchers. Dog eating in Europe was also common in times of war and famine. While now illegal in most European countries, dog eating still occurs in some rural areas of Switzerland.

[@waltdill927]

I'm pretty sure the typical "lap dog" I saw with its throat slit and placed on a counter at the open air market in the middle of winter, right around the Spring Festival time, was definitely intended to be eaten in the regular fashion at mealtime. I was uncertain at first, thinking it was just someone's pet that was allowed to rest on the table; but when it did not move or visibly breathe or twitch at all I realized it was indeed as dead as the chicken legs and pig heads also on display. Context is important; tradition is tradition. I have eaten many elaborate and very complete multi-course meals around the large "lazy Susan' type of table in China, with everyone spinning the table around and choosing from an amazing array of regional and local dishes; when prepared by a top-tier chef, and definitely during major holidays or celebrations, a concoction of dog meat is likely to make an appearance. Someone would always inform me that the dish coming round my way was canine, and I did take a bite or two, but found the slightly sweet and indefinable taste of the offering disagreeable, no doubt due to the idea alone. I similarly tried some excellently prepared escargot, but thought the taste a little too gritty, and suffused with a kind of musky or "woodsy" flavor. No one in my family ate liver, but I find the flavor of properly seasoned chicken livers most satisfying. We are taught to eat what we eat. There are McDonald's restaurants all across China, but you'll rarely see a Chinese child or adult eating the iconic hamburger, since they tend to prefer the chicken or french fries, or ice cream, instead. I recall eating a very tasty, crunchy nugget of fried food at one of the deluxe twenty-course banquets, and remarked that I believed it was one of the finest little snacks I had ever had. Deep-fried scorpion, someone informed me. Delicious. I wish I had a bagful with me now. The best rule, whether a world traveler or occasional tourist is this: If what the people are eating isn't killing anybody, it's probably safe to eat. To the Chinese, specifically, the common "fortune cookie" we talk about is an amusing anecdote, completely unknown. (The cookie has its roots, evidently, in Japanese culture; Wonton Food, Inc. of Brooklyn, N.Y. and Peking Noodle in L.A. are large producers today. ) Same for Chinese mustard, which is prepared there by mixing a bit of chili oil with a "Western" brand off the store shelf; this is how I used to make it, anyway, given that I never found a Chinese equivalent in the largest supermarkets. Taste is taste -- subjective and wholly peculiar. Also why, if you care about anything you put in your mouth, cooks will be slinging hash on spaceships, enroute to distant stars. Just so long as I don't have to watch an innocent Chinese college student go for the ketchup bottle -- on his way to pouring it on a slice of pepperoni. No: I didn't tell him it was a terrible way to treat a decent pizza.

[@mariarincon4624]

My grandma told me once about her pet chicken she would describe as a loving dog. Since then I've always wondered why more people didn't have chickens as pets but they're mainly seen as food. It has always been about perspective and experience.

[@nerdwisdomyo9563]

I dont think Americans are ones to talk about the immorality of eating meat

[@AB-wf8ek]

💯💯💯

[@fin3033]

dont Americans eat what they kill on the road like racoons or deers?

[@torilan2672]

Say it louder for the people in the back 🗣️🗣️👏👏👏

[@fionafiona1146]

4% of the global population consuming 20% of the produced meat at untold ecological damage? That's soo normal

[@marks7037]

I think it's such a funny modern notion since for the longest time, humans just ate whatever they got their hands on. IN GERMANY the last butcher specifically of dogmeat closed in 1985, iirc. This is nuts. Germans invented Lutheranian Christianity! It is not about religion, it is about perceived closeness of mind.

[@Forrrdppl]

Such a good video! Great job Cheyenne

[@bennycarter5249]

Great job, Cheyenne. Great job covering up the horrors of communism and instead blame outrage over dogs being boiled alive on white supremacy.

[@bennycarter5249]

Great job defending the CCP, Cheyenne!

[@nightowl7261]

@bennycarter5249 The CCP lives in your head rent free. Come out of your box once in a while.

[@漾子]

别说是狗肉了，我的父母辈还吃过猫肉、老鼠肉、蛇肉、蟑螂肉、蝗虫肉、野鸟、河虾、昆虫，只要是活的都想办法吃，更早还有人吃草、树叶、树皮、泥土。还有人吃胎盘。中国有个词汇叫做“易子而食”，意思是两户人互相交换孩子吃掉（避免吃自己的亲生子女）。 Let alone dog meat, my parents’ generation also ate cat meat, rat meat, snake meat, cockroach meat, locust meat, wild birds, river shrimp, insects, anything alive, they would eat it, and earlier, some people ate grass, leaves, bark, and soil. Some people even ate the placenta. There is a Chinese term called “易子而食”, which means two families exchange children and eat them (to avoid eating their own children). 为什么呢？还不是因为战乱、动荡、天灾、疾病导致的贫穷，人饥饿到一定程度的时候，就和其他动物没区别，生存就是第一需求了，只要能塞进嘴的都得吃了才能活下去。千百年间自然形成了一些奇特的饮食习俗。 Why? It is because of poverty caused by war, unrest, natural disasters and diseases. When people are hungry to a certain extent, they are no different from other animals. Survival is the first need. They have to eat anything they can put in their mouths to survive. Over thousands of years, some peculiar eating habits have naturally formed. 是的，西方人不吃狗肉，是因为你们很久都没有体会过我的先辈的那种贫穷了。 Yes, Westerners don’t eat dog meat because you haven’t experienced the poverty my ancestors experienced for a long time. 我记得我很小的时候大概吃过狗肉，因为那时候经常连肉都吃不到，我父母的想法很简单：养一条狗的成本相当高，当狗老了或者没用的时候，可不能浪费了这么好的肉。 I remember eating dog meat when I was very young, because we often couldn't even get meat at that time. My parents’ idea was simple: the cost of raising a dog is quite high, and when the dog is old or useless, such good meat cannot be wasted. 随着经济的发展，我们再也不缺这一点肉了，我也从来不会主张吃狗肉。但是从前形成的那些习俗却还在，老一辈人的记忆仍然存在。有些人并没有认为狗和其它动物有何不同，甚至有传统观念认为狗肉对健康有好处。这就是中国吃狗肉的问题，就是这么简单。 With the development of the economy, we no longer lack this little bit of meat, and I have never advocated eating dog meat. But the customs formed in the past are still there, and the memories of the older generation still exist. Some people do not think that dogs are any different from other animals, and there is even a traditional belief that dog meat is good for health. This is the problem with eating dog meat in China, it's that simple. 个别地区慢慢保存下来的吃狗肉习俗，被作为节日来庆祝，我觉得确实不妥。但需要了解的是，中国这个概念有多大，1%的中国人口就有14,000,000人。现在吃狗肉的人我个人估计连总人口的1%都没有，但是媒体热衷于报道与众不同的事情，将这些负面问题放大，所谓的刻板印象就是这样形成的。 I think it is inappropriate to celebrate the custom of eating dog meat in some regions as a festival. But we need to understand how big this concept is in China. 1% of the Chinese population is 14,000,000 people. I personally estimate that the number of people who eat dog meat is less than 1% of the total population, but the media is keen to report unusual things and magnify these negative issues. This is how the so-called stereotype is formed.

[@漾子]

另外我也注意到有人提到素食主义者的问题。你必须了解：在中国饥荒年代的历史记录中，人们先吃草和树叶，当它们被吃光了，人们开始吃树皮，树皮被吃光了，实在没办法，人们吃黏土来增加饱腹感，但很容易造成消化道梗阻，很多人因此丧命。而这样的事情，最近的一次就发生在1940年代。 I also noticed that someone mentioned the issue of vegetarians. You have to understand: in the historical records of the famine in China, people first ate grass and leaves. When they were eaten up, people began to eat tree bark. When the bark was eaten up, there was no other way, people ate clay to increase their satiety, but it could easily cause digestive tract obstruction, and many people died. The most recent such incident happened in the 1940s.

[@Lycandros]

You could also look at the ecological affect of eating various animals. Does an ecosystem require predation of an animal to maintain stability? Does that ecosystem have non-human animals to fulfill that role or have humans wiped out that predator through direct or indirect means? There is also the access perspective. How much does an individual have access to the nutrients required to live where-ever they are. Do they have the power to seek alternative means of consuming those nutrients? How much power to change the systems at play do these people have. There is character in a book series called The Innkeeper Chronicles that has a very interesting view on what food he will serve. Can't remember the exact quote but it is essentially he will not serve anyone food that would hurt their soul, or something along those lines. Personally I don't think I could ever see dogs or cats as food for myself for that reason, eating it would hurt my soul, and even with that I don't see eating dog as morally wrong, but it still hurts. Same kind of hurt when I think about how factory animals are treated.

[@bennycarter5249]

If she had adressed any of these perspectives in this video maybe it would be a wothwile argument.

[@Lycandros]

@@bennycarter5249 I'm not arguing, I'm adding.

[@sophiekoester5214]

amazing video!!! wow such an interesting topic, so well researched and love the organization in the presentation

[@GetOfflineGetGood]

I grew up eating rabbits that my grandparents had raised on their land. I don't see how that's any different from eating a dog or a pig or any other animal. I think most people who eat meat probably wouldn't if they had to process the meat themselves. Growing up in a family where we killed and processed our own animals gave me a really different perspective than most people who've never seen a dead animal outside of the grocery store, never interacted with an animal before they ate it.

[@JordanS-ww4eu]

I’m an American man and I would like to apologize to all you Asians out there for all that

[@oldbooksatmidnight8118]

Very timely, as South Korea's government has proposed legislation to ban dog-eating. There's a cultural clash between the dogs as livestock and dogs as pets camps

[@queenbeebuzz5075]

this was fascinating to listen to, thank you for taking the time to fully discuss this topic!

[@boscorner]

A little dissappointed how this didnt go more into how particularly horrible the treatment of dogs is, in these practices. I can think dog-eating is bad because of other reasons than them being special /domesticated to be pets. Now, I've looked into factory farms and these dog eating practices, particularly feativals, and the dog stuff seems much worse. Maybe in thoae parts of the world they treat other animals just as badly but most people are comparing chinese dog festivals to american factory farms. I can see the flaw in this view, as I said, i dont really know if pigs are burned alive and such. So before anyone replies, i see that hole in my logic.

[@mehlover]

I remember being made fun of all the way to high school on this ridiculous stereotype. Didn't help that at home my parents would do the whole "we're not like those Asians" spiel whenever an Asian stereotype came up in our conversations. Especially on eating dog meat. Despite the fact we're Fil-Am. I know there's Chinese blood within our bloodline, but the fact i was still targeted because I'm Asian was always annoying. Never knew how to answer back because I never researched about this. I had a feeling there was more to it. Now as an adult I knew some of my guesses was right, like if you're poor and need to eat. But also learned a lot more. This video felt cathartic for me, and also help me realize my school was freaking racist, something i and my family didn't believe at the time. This is a great and well researched video. Great job on this!

[@Artistgirl254]

My parents from Mexico would tell me stories of eating possums, raccoons, squirrels, etc as well as having to eat their "pet" chickens and goats. And i think thats why i never really felt the need to freak out about the "dog eating" thing. The way i saw it if they did, it was out of necessity and obviously most peoppe dont do it and dont want to these days.

[@crimson8299]

I grew up on a dairy farm and I had a huge habit of getting emotionally attached to some of the cows, especially one in particular. When I was the one to feed them she would hustle over to me as fast as possible and demand pets and scratches. I even won grand champion at the fair with her two years in a row. She eventually was moved to a part of the farm that I didn't go to regularly. I knew what her fate would be in a few years (dairy cows could live to almost 30 but on farms they're only around for maybe 4 or 5...) and I desperately wish I could have bought her, but I didn't have the money as a highschooler. When she was gone, neither my dad or I was told, I never got to say goodbye. I guess my point is that cows are TOTALLY capable of giving love and attention, as well as receiving it. They're literally just big dogs. Other farm animals are capable of this too. I hate American culture and beef, it really makes me sick.

[@Twocat5side]

It's good to hear this from the Chinese perspective I personally as an India find other westerns objectify dog eating as bad while still harming cows and pigs ludicrous Where do you draw the line? Deer? Horse? Most Indians are on majority vegetarian (not vegan). In India you have the opportunity to consume so many different non meat items, hence there's a stigma on eating meat here. But if you're in your own country I couldn't care less, go on enjoy what you must

[@fluffydestroyer8336]

reminds me a lot of how taboo it is to eat horses in the anglophone world, while it's a fairly normal thing throughout europe. I always found it weird to hear americans get shocked at the idea of eating horses when I ate plenty of em as a kid

[@tiahnarodriguez3809]

America used to eat horses and even tried to make eating hippos a thing, but it fell out of favor. Italy eats horses too, but at one point it was banned in certain regions till it got revoked.

[@Zectifin]

I'm an american and I hate horses so I will say that I would totally try horse and people always react appalled. Sorry but I have more empathy for a chicken or pig than a horse.

[@lenanayashkova]

Haven't finished watching yet, so looking forward to it. Just wanted to say from what I've seen in Vietnam there are a lot of people who don't eat dog meat and are opposed to it, some are quite strongly so. Not sure if there are that many people who keep dogs as pets but eat the meat. There is a pretty big problem in Hanoi with pet dogs being stolen to be sold to the meat trade which obviously is something that pet owners are really not happy about

[@hominhmai5325]

Its mini china

[@kyattogallery]

I think one aspect that was missed in this debate was the practicality of certain animals. In America, for instance, some poorer populations like my own family eat animals seen as “pets” like rabbits due to their accessibility from hunting. Similarly, organ meats like liver or tongue are consumed for their affordability. The distinction often stems from practicality rather than a moral standpoint. This difference in approach seems more related to economic factors than a strict cultural divide. In today's America, the shift towards cheap fast food has altered traditional food sources for the poor, impacting the consumption of certain animals, but I imagine the consumption of meat in some cultures partly comes out a balance of how much benefit does the animal provide the household versus how much benefit eating the animal provides the household and in different households/lifestyles this balance is shifted one way or the other. Additionally, the normalization of certain meats plays a role. It’s normal to have a disgust reaction to new foods as a survival mechanism to avoid eating toxic things (regardless of whether it is in fact toxic or not). For example, you can see this in the uncomfortable reactions to eating deer in some regions of Japan where deer was historically sacred or eating fresh water fish like catfish even though in my family these are very regular meats.

[@leonineKelter]

The thing is, even if people do eat dogs, its simply a different culture that maybe doesnt perceive dogs the exact same way we do. Its no more unethical than when americans eat deer just because it's a pet animal, it's still an animal. But the fact that its equivalent to being Asian and that people refuse the accept anything that doesnt fit their their cultural ideologies, the first response is "ew".

[@leonineKelter]

I'll tell people that in Colombia, people eat capybara, and they clutch their pearls in horror at me. People ask "how could you eat such a precious adorable animal?" How do you eat deer? How do you eat chickens? Why is capybara different? It sure tastes better than turkey to me. At first it was funny to me that people would always be so terrified but it started to get annoying that id share things about my family's culture and I'd get responses of shock.

[@merle444]

yea i used to love eating meat before i went vegan 8 years ago. ive always loved animals more than anything, be it a hamster or a cow, yet i ate beef and dairy products and wanted to visit zoos. especially as a child, i didnt really make the connection or realize what it really was that I was eating and supporting. that a being really had to be killed and chopped up to get on my plate, or stolen and traumatized and trapped for people to gawk at at a zoo. beside racism, I think it‘s how disconnected we truly are from where animal products really come from and what has to happen in order to get them, most people don’t want to know anything about slaughter etc. let alone see it. dogs and cats are more present in most people‘s lives than cows or pigs and thus it‘s easier to see them as individuals who deserve nothing but love. if people were to spend more time with farm animals and realized they all have their own personality and quirks as well and love cuddling and just deserve the world, thus actively reducing the indoctrination of speciesism, I’d hope we‘ll stop exploiting them alltogether. again, besides racism which obvi should be taught about, especially to white kids; the problem is speciesism and the thought that one species is to love, the other to eat. idk if I made sense lol sorry for rambling

[@leonineKelter]

@@merle444 no, it does, don't worry! I still eat meat but I'm also acutely aware of the disconnect between me knowing I'm eating an animal and seeing the process myself. I personally think as long as we don't apply a hierarchy to which animals are "edible" and "inedible" eating meat isn't horrible, animals and people have eaten each other for all of history, and I think it's that people need to raise livestock and dairy animals in more sanitary environments than the food industry does, and that applying the idea of some animals being less worthy of life than others is objectively weird to me. I understand feeling like that isn't enough for sure though. My mom owns 12 chickens, and at one point we had a few that were raised for eating and then they killed them and cooked them. I was able to eat the chicken knowing that I had raised it, but I couldn't participate in the slaughtering, it was too much for me. But I knew the chicken was raised in good conditions with space and other animals and it was better than eating a grocery store chicken usually is.

[@Jay-Kay-Buwembo]

People will kidnap other people's pets though.

[@skyandthemoon]

Exactly and the meat and dairy industry is brutal force pregnancies then killing the baby for its meat or chickens being shoved in those pens not being able to move and pumped with antibiotics like Americans will defend that but look down on other cultures for the type of meat they if you think killing animals is bad then keep that energy for everyone including Americans meat industry

[@Egg-rr8rb]

Dog eating is also a cultural practice for indigenous North American tribes. My bf and I have engaged in traditional feasts that had dishes with dog meat.

[@LethalLemonLime]

tbh I didn't watch the video but I ate dog before. Once in South Korea. because Korea has dog restaurants. It's generally the old generation that eats it nowadays though. this was about 9 years ago. I'm American and I was working at a internship with a Japanese girl. We were both students at the same Korean University. The internship CEO or boss or whatever was an old guy and he wanted to eat dog soup. boshintang or something like that. The Japanese girl said she would try it so I was like okay I'll try it too. So we tried it. First and last time I ever ate it. I actually still live there now and apparently the Korean government is trying to outlaw eating dog. However, Korea doesn't have a massive poverty issue and it's not people in poverty that are eating dog here. My boss wasn't poor and neither was anyone else in that restaurant. They were mostly just people from another generation except for our boss' subordinates. I personally never understood why people would be so mad at people eating dog but not other animals. Why is it okay to eat a cow, chicken, or pig but not a dog? Tbh dog meat wasn't really tasty so I don't get why they even liked it when pig, beef, and chicken is much more flavorful. And pork is super cheap here.

[@hominhmai5325]

Its a savage culture

[@elzilrac]

IMHO it's not just a logical argument, but it's a cultural taboo not to eat dogs. Another animal that I think has a place in this comparison is horses. There is a strong cultural taboo against eating them, and the FDA effectively banned their slaughter in the US. But there are people demonizing people in Mexico for continuing the practice. The threat of a horse being sent to slaughter across the border is used to collect donations for "rescue", but also perpetuates the othering and negative stereotype of the Mexican people. (Ignoring the other cultures that also eat horse meat). So there exists two separate concerns, the taboo itself, and the weaponization of the taboo to target specific groups. The taboo is not universally applied, who is being targeted and why are interesting pieces of the puzzle.

[@irkendragon]

The thing people forget about when discussing the desire to avoid animal suffering when becoming vegan/vegetarian is how and where that food is grown and our current inability for humans to consume anything at all without having knock-on effects on the lives of other living things. Why? Habitat loss and scale. Half the world's habitable land is used for agriculture. Think about how many animals have starved to death because their forests and prairies have been converted to cropland which supports much less biodiversity. Or how many animals have died, including intentionally so, for consuming and encountering the pesticides we spray on our crops, or because their rivers were dried up or dammed to irrigate crops. I think reducing suffering as much as possible is the ideal, but when I think about my diet I'm under no delusion that I'm guiltless when I eat only vegetarian.

[@ansonchan4458]

As a vegetarian, I have never eaten any meat in my life due to religious reasons. However, I do not consider the act of eating dog meat wrong. It is the same as eating beef, pork, chicken, lamb, etc. Those who claim the consumption of dog meat as barbaric while enjoying their chicken burger are displaying hypocrisy and cultural hegemony. For those who argue that “dogs are humans’ good friends and therefore different from other animals,” I'd like to point out that cows are considered holy creatures in Hindu culture, yet Hindus generally do not criticize people from other cultures who enjoy beef burgers; In Islam, pork is regarded as unclean, and its consumption is forbidden, but this doesn't prevent others from enjoying their pork belly. Whether a species is regarded as a "companion" or "consumption" animal is merely a matter of cultural difference. Why should one apply their own set of standards to other cultures?

[@RomanKonarski]

Sorry but I have to respond for the sake of truthfulness. Even if someone will label me a bigot. The discussants are eloquent but they deflect the issue. Unfortunately eating dogs in China is not illegal and it is not a myth. Of course not all people in China do it. But these are facts.

[@jennyshen5176]

It's actually illegal in the sense that there is no approved dog meat farm so the sources of dog meat are all illegal.

[@curiousnerdkitteh]

Bravo for talking about such a difficult topic!

[@ScoundrelChestnut]

imagine that we poc need to "appeal my humanity to the white westerners." the same people who turned around and said "food isn't a basic human right". thank you for educating this is important. in the middle east, people used to eat desert lizards and I'm sure many still do, while some might think it's a delicacy some depend on it for survival. but in the region where Muslims are the majority, the meat of "hunter animals" aka Carnivores ( dogs, cats, , eagles, falcons...etc) are forbidden. but when disasters as famine long drought etc etc hit it's known by the religious law, any animal meat is food for survival. we also have animal sacrifices to allah (islam's god), except it's the rule here is always always to cook and eat the sacrificial meat, offer it to neighbors and family. the act of animal slaughter has set of rules to make the last of animal life painless and without fear, because we believe that all animals have souls, and it's our duty to be kind and compassionate. respecting an animal caring for it well being and eating it isn't contradictory in our culture. when it comes to factory farming mistreatments of animals, unfortunately it's everywhere, and this is the reason i became vegan. and it's not me taking morally high ground but i can't handle the emotional burden.

[@mariamart_0]

Exactly, White people especially in Western Countries such as White Americans having this cultural superiority and elitist mentality when it comes to having more racialized biases towards People of Color when it comes to the idea that their own religious morality should be upheld as being more superior than a Non-White, Non-European, Non-Western western societies as being correlated to compromising on pushing and promoting White supremacist imperialism & Western colonialism onto non-Western cultures and customs as seeing them as an unimportant of no significance. Many Westerners love to worship their own surplus Judeo-Christian morality and Protestantism onto other cultural norms, values, and cultural morality. Versus the opposite of Eastern religions such as Hinduism believing in Krishna saying all animals are either supplements or companions (bodyguards). As in some animals such as Cows are sacred, is the reason why majority of Indians especially Southern Indians in the Bengali region refuse to eat beef because the Cows are a deity and should be worshiped as gods. You wonder why the generalization that Westerners and Non-Indians have of Indian people in India is that they worship or pray to the Cow because of religious beliefs and cultural values. Whichever is very common among the older Indian generations versus the younger Indian generations. It is just the beginning of Westerners especially North Americans & Western Europeans assume that the whole world revolves around them. Which is so Eurocentric and seems of Eurocentrism. Thinking the whole notion of civilization is revolved around Europe and Europeans which is complete bullshit & Whitewashing nonetheless ridiculousness.

[@mariamart_0]

Many non-European countries, plus “othered” cultures have their own cultural morality and it should not be demonized demonstrably because Europeans practiced spreading their imperialist ideas, values through cultural norms, values, belief systems, and attitudes at attempts of European colonialism and the colonial era of erasing non-Western and non-European countries cultures such as Kenya, South Africa, Brazil, Philippines, Mexico, and many Latin American countries as well who have suffered the permanent loss and damage of eradication of their ethnic indigenous cultures & practices through European colonialism. By replacing them with Euro Values, Euro Attitudes, Euro Beliefs, European religion, European clothing, and European language (Español) España from *Ahem* Spain…and yes I am talking about Spanish expedition and Spanish & Portuguese colonization…of Latin America. The Euro-fication of Latin America and Whitewashing.

[@pinkradiohandlerr]

I think that saying “eating animals is 100% okay” and “eating animals is morally wrong” are both incorrect statements and instead should be met in the middle. At the end of the day, whether the animal is sentient or not, it can still suffer and feel pain. But at the same time, humans are omnivores. We could technically subsist off just plants, but like other omnivores, are usually much more healthy when consuming both. Humans are still just animals with needs, and eating other animals fits those needs. It’s just something done to survive. But since humans possess empathy, compassion, and sympathy, we possess the capability to feel guilt towards eating animals, especially if we knew that animal, or it reminds us of one we did know. That’s why I feel rather than stopping eating meat, we should rather focus on stopping the needless suffering of animals raised for it, why their deaths should be as quick and painless as possible, and why they should not be wasted, as well as the respect for these animals should be much higher. Every part of their bodies can be utilized in some way, and so it should be. These animals give up their lives for us, so we should treat these animals with utmost respect. Animals are not beneath us because they aren’t as smart or sentient, they just serve a different role in the world and ecosystem and be treated as such. It’s not a human, but it’s not a mindless creature who can’t feel pain. Animals should be treated with respect, and not wasted nor made to suffer. Sometimes things have to be done for others to live, that’s just how it works. A lion will eat a gazelle, but this isn’t morally reprehensible. It’s just doing what it needs to survive. It’s the same with humans. As long as we show the animals compassion while it’s alive, and not force it to suffer, and make it so their death wasn’t meaningless, that’s what I think matters.

[@lisadoes]

We as humans do not necessarily require meat to be healthy, but our pets do. So if we decided to stop consuming meat for ourselves, if we wanted to have cats, we would still need to raise and slaughter animals for the cats to eat. And dogs are healthier and happier when they eat meat. Humans are the only animals that have any ambivalence about their diet, and I find that interesting.

[@Albinojackrussel]

We aren't the only animals to be omnivores, we're just the only one humans regularly feed. Bears are a good example, and many of the carnivorous species can actually survive and be healthy on a vegetarian diet (some even do this in the wild). Like humans they need a protein source, but they can get it from vegetal sources. Cats are actually very weird in just how carnivorous they are. Most carnivores can actually get by/survive for at least short periods on non meat calorie sources, but cats really can't at all. They can't even taste sugar they're so strongly adapted to a meat only diet.

[@lisadoes]

@@Albinojackrussel I didn’t say that we are the only omnivores. Many animals are omnivorous. I said that we are the only species that has ambivalence about our diets.

[@bball3048mmfr]

As a Vietnamese descent, I too grew up being made fun of eating dogs and cats. But I went to Vietnam for the first time at age 39, and I was told that Vietnamese people's pet dogs/cats may go missing and that's because there is a market for dog meat in that country. People kidnap the dogs/cats and bring them to the slaughterhouse so they will eventually be sold to eat. It's an unfortunate truth about my heritage.

[@p.channel.2023]

Thanks for being honest about this since I don't see many people have done this when it comes to the dog & cat meat trade these days. I'm sorry that you & many Asians received racist treatment by other immature people but if it's wrong, then it's wrong. Just call it for what it is. Accidentally downplaying this barbaric trade just hurts the animals behind & many times pet owners here as well.

[@txferretgirl]

The reality is yes, SOME people in china eat dogs but it's not the norm and more often than not, the person you are speaking with has never even considered it. It's sort of like asking any american 'haha do you eat BULL TESTICLES?' because in some parts of the country some people eat rocky mountain oysters. It is not the norm and most people here have never, and will never eat them. It's a ridiculous thing to ask someone who is chinese 'do you eat dogs and cats' because they probably DON'T. Not to mention incredibly rude to assume that the majority do what a minority does. That being said, the cultural aspect of it I don't believe is a viable excuse. Considering in one of the areas where it still happens, it is 'cultural' to beat the dog to death brutally since apparently the adrenaline makes the meat more tender. There is no excuse for beating an animal to death. But again, that is a very small group of people that do this, and there are protests in the area against it.

[@mad8598]

My comments trying to say this keep getting deleted straightaway which I think is very unfair as I am not being rude and am not spreading misinformation. My issue - as an Asian from one of the countries where it used to still practiced - is not that I think dogs are more special or different to other animals (I don’t) it’s the harvest method used.

[@bennycarter5249]

She left this out for a reason.

[@bennycarter5249]

She's deleting my comments too

[@randolphburces1623]

​@@bennycarter5249Hello. Is she really deleting comments? 😮

[@maguetteba6911]

another great video ❤ this really made me think and examine my own morals. thank you!

[@bennycarter5249]

Is it moral to torture an animal before you eat it?

[@bananaana1860]

Many types of meat consumed in different cultures/regions/religions stem from history. Countries that have experienced long periods of famine or slavery/serfdom are less picky with what they eat and have to be resourceful to survive. It's hard to imagine for the average person living a "developed country lifestyle." But when I visited Cambodia as a Chinese person, I understood why they have bugs as delicacies. Most people nowadays try it for the novelty, but back then, people didn't have a choice. And after learning about the bloody history of Cambodia, I stopped judging people for what they ate. I may not want to eat it, but that's okay. I only have issues when pets get stolen to be sold off. My grandparents had to live through the aftermath of the Japanese Invasion of China, as well as the great famine. Coincidentally, they are from the province that suffered the highest casualties caused by starvation. They were not picky and had a pet cat to care for the mice. They didn't eat the cat and treated it like a companion; the cat brought back fish for them during times of need. And to them, that was a much better time than seeing people die while walking on the street. I'm very fortunate to be picky about my food; I'm very fortunate to toss away moldy and spoiled food. My grandparents didn't have that luxury; moldy food was still food. At multiple points throughout Chinese history, famines have gotten so horrendous that parents would trade children to eat. To my knowledge, these events mostly took place in ancient China. But those are widely recognized as dark and terrible times, never to be repeated with a high prioritization for food security on people's minds. This is why many old Chinese people (even many Chinese youth) are interested in vegetable gardens. Which, in turn, is a truthful stereotype of why Chinese gardens are mostly vegetable gardens instead of flower gardens.

[@cometkittykat8218]

As a newly established vegan, I understand the conundrum. It took me just trying to be vegan to make me change on the stance of eating animals (As well as a growing love for spiders). I didn’t force myself. I just said to myself when I was planning to eat, could I go without eating meat today? I’ve slipped up a lot and I don’t blame myself for it. I also happen to be in a position where I can afford to be vegan. My main view is if you can do it without beating yourself up (mentally, emotionally, or financially) then why not try it out.

[@lolly9804]

When my family used to live in Singapore. My dad would regularly eat dog curries, as he used to occasionally hunt and eat dog as a kid. So it wasn't a big deal for him moving to a south-east Asian country to take up the practice again. Even though in the meantime he moved to a western country and married my mum. So of course she wouldn't eat them when he brought takeaway dog curries home. But my older brothers would weight whether they cared enough about dogs not to eat the delicious smelling curry. Sp usually would eat it anyway knowing full well what it was, because by all accounts dog meat is great in curries. So despite being white presenting (for the most part), when we moved back to my mum's home country. Because I had an odd accent and a history of living in an SEA country. I used to get asked the do I eat dogs question at school a lot. Which my usual reply was, 'not in awhile'. In recent years, I've encountered more people who've been horrified that I occasionally eat lamb. And it's not even because of being vegetarian, which I would understand. But a moral judgement based on the assumption that lambs are small and cute. Even though what gets sold as lamb, is usually from a sheep that is 1 to 2 years old, and is almost adult sized at the time they were slaughtered. Since sheep grow fast and don't live very long (even without being turned into meat first). Really my only objections to dog meat, like with any meat. Is I don't like the overly cruel treatment of the animals in the years leading up to them being slaughtered. Otherwise like with how I've been judged for eating sheep, an animal that is usually only raised to be eaten, nowadays. I think panicing over what other people eating commonly available animals, is weird, and not worth the condemnation in and of itself.

[@hominhmai5325]

Vile and disgusting 🤮

[@billtownsend937]

Thank you for this video - love your work!

[@yeetlelydeet7276]

This was super insightful, thanks for making this!!

[@elisabethchan6292]

This is a great piece of video essay, and says what exactly I feel about the animal rights movement in areas adjacent to China. Growing up in Hong Kong, we are conditioned to believe that the Chinese are barbaric people who would eat whatever that has their backs facing the skies. Given our colonial history and our generational memory towards the British, we considered ourselves to have a very close proximity to whiteness and therefore consider ourselves to be superior to every other kind of Chinese people except those in the western diaspora (a Chinese from Dubai, for example, would not be sounding as appealing as a Chinese from Croydon to a person from Hong Kong). So, even most of us are ethnic Han Chinese, Sinophobia is a norm and animal rights is often one of the things that are used as a justification. This kind of moral/human rights imperialism that I perceived is a reason why I didn’t get involved in civil rights movements when I first moved to the UK-I thought it was incompatible with my cultural heritage, but after meeting more Chinese and other Asians along the way, I feel more comfortable with supporting. Sadly, back in Hong Kong, this kind of mentality still exists…

[@nightowl7261]

You ain't white. And you'll never will be.

[@anny8720]

I'm only American diaspora and not very knowledgeable about Chinese related politics though I have seen a few english comments before saying things along the lines of 'it was good for us that Britain colonized Hong Kong' so would you say this pro colonialism (for Hong Kong specifically) mentality is common?

[@marielarubiodiaz9165]

great video. I'm from Spain and here in rural towns people eat rabbit and hare meat normally, they are generally dangerous pests for crops so it's encouraged to haunt them to keep the population stable. I always thought it was normal, I even had a pet rabbit as a kid and saw no issue. Now I live in the city and people have been horriefied at the notion that I ate rabbit as they consider them little pets. I had an issue with it for a time thinking that maybe the culture I was raised of was wrong but I realized animals are animals and that the meat people got from hunting legally those rabbits was obtained more morally than any chicken bought at a store and even was necessary in our lands to keeping an equilibrium to the ecosystem.

[@SebastianSeanCrow]

29:42 pigs, cows, chickens, some people have these animals solely as pets, some for recurring food source (milk, eggs), some for the meat full stop

[@tayzers69]

ive always been of the opinion that bc humans are animals, and we are omnivorous, its just expected for us to eat other animals. i dont get the point of moralizing over non human animals being sentient or not, to me thats never mattered and isnt really the point. as things stand, its ridiculous to me to even imply that people should stop eating meat all together as a "moral" duty. is it immoral for animals to hunt other animals? is it immoral to survive? of course industrial farming and the industry altogether is an entirely separate thing, but to say that the act of eating animal meat in and of itself is immoral is laughable to me.

[@pong9000]

As mentioned in the video, some early animal rights ideals were an offshoot of White protestants reasoning how the best people ought to treat primitive races and other animals.

[@Shadowonwater]

Exactly! People talk about treating animals as our equals by not eating them but by doing so we are putting ourselves on some weird moral highground. Because, as you said, animals eat other animals, and we are animals. I always get so sick of people acting like humans aren't a kind of animal, that we are somehow different or better.

[@smolmuffin]

This 100%, vegan ideas can dip into racism really quick (especially towards indigenous people) There's some animals I wouldn't consume outside of a survival situation, but when it comes to the morality of the whole thing, I focus moreso on the method of dispatch, if the animal has been taken out ethically and its remains repurposed as much as possible... its fair. After all it gave us its life so the least we can do is use the meat to fill our bellies and repurpose fur, skin, bones, etc in other ways as to not waste its sacrifice.

[@Pandazillaaa]

We don't need to eat animals to survive and we have the ability to make are own decisions so objectively it obviously isn't the same thing for animals to hunt and for us to torture and eat them. And it isn't just eating animals animals are most never killed quickly or treated with respect before they die. Is it ok with you if everyone was a rapist except for you?

[@Pandazillaaa]

​@@Shadowonwaterread my comment below.