Do Schizoids Have Empathy?

[@RolandoRatas]

I have extremely low empathy these days and it gets lower the older I get. It mainly stems from a long life of generally very bad experiences with people and the realization that the universe isn't hostile towards you, instead it is indifferent. So I am mainly indifferent towards others now. Makes it sound like I am some kind of monster but really I just don't care anymore.

[@SchizoidVision]

What you're saying makes sense. The capacity to understand others through empathy (especially cognitive empathy) is not synonymous to caring about others. Being able to read other people does not necessarily translate into emotional engagement or caring about them. Over time our tendency to emotionally detach can become more pervasive, engrained, and automatic, and so our defenses can lead to a reduced capacity or motivation to engage emotionally or actively care for others.

[@alexis-llemay8064]

After a few years in therapy I can say that my empathy is really high as a schizoid. Before therapy I felt really numb. Therapy allowed me to open up to feelings I had buried inside. It was painful. Really painful but necessary.

[@SchizoidVision]

It sounds like you reached an emotional breakthrough with your therapist, although it was a very difficult journey. It seems like it was positive for you in the end.

[@alexis-llemay8064]

​@@SchizoidVision It was indeed positive, but extremely painful. Not for the faint of heart!

[@RotzlöffelKartoffel]

Hi! I just wanted to say thank you for your work and for putting it out there. I'm really looking forward to the next episode on empathy :) greetings from germany

[@Ter-x4f]

Hello! I just discovered your wonderful channel, and it's been most helpful and somewhat reassuring in my personal journey. Thank you so much for doing all this. I would like to make a request for you to consider to put subtitles on the videos. My English is not perfect yet, and sometimes it's hard to understand some accents or words without transcriptions. Unfortunately, automated subtitles often appear to be completely wrong. I also think other people might benefit from the subtitles too, and it would make it easier to translate your videos as well. I hope that's not too much to ask, and I completely understand if it's something that is inconvenient to do. Once again, thank you for your hard work. Wish you all the best!

[@SchizoidVision]

Welcome to the channel. KZbin used to have a publishing tool to add subtitles to videos in different languages, but they have now removed it and subtitles are generated automatically. So, unfortunately, I can no longer add different languages to videos.

[@vladimirmx8454]

Palabras que mencionaste y destaco e identifico plenamente: HIPER CONCIENTE, HIPER SENSIBLE, CONCIENCIA AGUDA DE NUESTRO ENTORNO, CAPTAR SEÑALES EMOCIONALES SUTILES, ABSOBER EMOCIONES DE OTROS, DESAPEGO INTELECTUAL....llega a ser abrumador realmente el como amplificamos lo que nuestros sentidos nos mandan, y que que "los normales" es algo trivial y cotidiano. Gracias por tu video.No sé inglés, por eso escribo en español, una disculpa.

[@SchizoidVision]

De nada. Entiendo lo que dices. Esta puede ser una condición difícil y complicada de vivir.

[@jeffdoyle3468]

I know that I have difficulty communicating my true thoughts out to the external word. Your posts have been very helpful in helping me organize my own thoughts and understanding why I have such challenges interacting with others.

[@SchizoidVision]

That's good to hear.

[@don-eb3fj]

Lacking empathy?😂 Empathy is one of the primary factors that made it necessary to develop the schizoid defense to begin with, along with the fact that it was exploited so repeatedly. So I had to forget how to express it, for my own survival, but not soon enough apparently. Where is this famous "empathy" that "normies" have this alleged monopoly over? Why do they assume the right to have unfettered access to my emotions, for their own validation? Why is it so important to know what I think or feel, when my thoughts and feelings will be misunderstood, dismissed, invalidated, and demonized when they differ from their own anyway? They don't care how I feel or what I think, unless I'm in agreement with them 100%. What did any of them do to earn that "right", or to even conclude that they are "right" ? And how does it become MY problem or MY duty to carry the burden of anyone else's emotional incontinence? , especially given the rarity of anyone even considering that I just "might" be a human being with emotions and convictions of my own that are just as real and just as valid as anyone's despite my responsible management of them and keeping them private? Spot on as usual Penzy, I especially appreciate the explanation of the involuntary need to remove ourselves from the emotional environment (sometimes EVERY environment that includes others), due to too much volatility and demand - a very timely statement for me. Sometimes I wonder if you've planted bugging devices in my head 😉, but it FEELS 😱 good to be understood. Thank you.

[@kinderblutsaufenderreptiloide]

👏👏👏

[@SchizoidVision]

I find your thoughts to be very relatable, thanks for your feedback.

[@don-eb3fj]

@@SchizoidVision always grateful for your help sorting me out and for the opportunity to contribute something to help other 'zoids do the same and to help improve understanding of how we work and who we REALLY are. I have nothing more important to do with my time , these kinds of issues ARE the darkest parts of the forest - and it's a lot easier to see a path with more than only my own eyes looking 🙂.

[@VisceralGravitas]

I sense that a bigger issue with neurotic society, is that schizoid's fear of engulfment and emotional contagion is mostly polar opposite to the group social norm which assumes emotional contagion, co-regulating emotional flooding together, and getting close and lost in emotions; often is a positive and relationship bonding dynamic. I think that might be more of what empathy judgment and shaming is more about.

[@don-eb3fj]

@@VisceralGravitas I would like to hear more of your perspective about this if you care to elaborate. Some information I have encountered recently which may have at least a tangential bearing comes from Adam Lane Smith's descriptions of the Avoidant attachment style, the typical high cortisol levels and dopamine-seeking, and the need for Vasopressin-based bonding before Oxytocin-based bonding can occur. We 'zoids seem to exist on the extreme end of that spectrum (where even dopamine fears to tread, or has little effect), and I wonder if that idea resonates with your ideas as related to your comment. Care to put a little flesh on the bones of it?

[@VisceralGravitas]

@@don-eb3fj The Avoidant vs Anxious attachment types is a common breakdown, of which I can agree that schizoids would be more extreme on the avoidant side. BUT it might also be extreme on both ends, extreme desire for infinite space (there's never enough space/distance), matched with an extreme curiosity (paranoia) to fully merge with one dominant frame of reference (absolutely no space for differences). Paranoid-schizoid mode in Object Relations might be an earlier form of bipolar, but with the opposite extremes staying categorized, or with schizoids leaning more towards avoidant, and blocking out their desires for oceanic merging, instead merging with imagination mental space. I personally lean more towards autistic traits, so I'm more avoidant and slow in keeping up with social demands and narratives. But I don't have the ability or counter-will to fight against social norms and group think. I just ignore it, or cave and blend in as best I can. Schizoids might be more counter-dependent, oppositional defiant, pathological demand avoiding, or exercising counter-will more than will power. I sense that Schizoid Vision's recent videos about empathy are countering the common definitions and expectations of empathy, that allows a bit more space to schizoids. But the longer game would be to advocate and interpret schizoid behaviors so they're normalized to neurotic norms. BUT that would be will power vs counter-will; also that group narrative might feel trapping and boxing in to schizoids. So that's a hard sell. I suspect that schizoids by nature have an innate aversion to group definitions and social restrictions. It might be part of that porcupine dilemma, and a strong discomfort with being perceived. I have 2 family members who have strong schizoid traits, though the expression is a bit different, as they're within a chinese cultural framework. Confucianism imposes over-exposure by default, so one can hide playing their role, but also is trapped by the role's expectations.

[@don-eb3fj]

@@VisceralGravitas Great answer, thank you for your reply and your perspective - many of your ideas and observations are similar to my own, though I am not quite as well-versed yet in the clinical terminology. I do recognize the very confusing dichotomy of avoidant and anxious polarities in my own dynamics as well as the autistic withdrawal and the counter dependent demand for autonomy while still harboring the deep desire for a hard-to-define "merger" with a singular individual; the inseparable fusion with concepts and ideas as a substitute, a part of identity, and as an obstacle to relations with others is very familiar. I also concur with the tendency of 'zoids (and myself) to avoid and resist definition in group terms, and collaboration through collective means, and equate that tendency with the (automatic) desire for anonymity and autonomy gained honestly via repeated experiences that reinforced the lessons learned early - that our perspective will not be understood, our interests will be unsupported, and our motivations and empathy will be exploited. I recognize that his has been and continues to be an organizing dynamic and an obstacle to pursuing what to me are otherwise necessary and worthwhile ambitions, and has become a focal point of my attention in my attempts to know and master myself. If I cannot address and overcome this, I will merely continue to rot with my potential contributions unrealized. In this regard, I believe that many of we 'zoids become our own worst enemies , and victimize ourselves and betray our own best interests by allowing our idealized "perfect" to become the enemy of our common good, and would like to find ways to encourage more collaboration between us to improve outcomes for everyone. I see great value in the proposition to "normalize" the schizoid condition and experience to a more relatable standard, given that it is an honest and accurate one, and I see many indications that Penzy is attempting to do just that, and it is an undertaking I try to fully support in every way I can, thus my frequent rambling discursions here in the comments. I also recognize the inherent disparity of my own internal conflicts, so I fully comprehend the difficulties each of us struggles with in our own unique way in these regards. I find your points well founded and expressed, and they will provide some new grist for my mental mill. It may be so for others here too, so thank you for posting and I hope you will contribute more in the future - "it takes a village", even if we live on its fringes, and at least here the village isn't run by "normie" idiots with torches and pitchforks.😁 If only the "real" world were so accommodating.

[@VisceralGravitas]

​@@don-eb3fj I've been trying to wrap my head around to *what it's like to have the extreme paranoia side* of the paranoid-schizoid mode. In a sense, I might not have enough paranoia, and just sort of surrender to that social blindspot of impossible to predict. Or maybe instead, my autistic hack is tracking patterns and seeing others as systems, instead of infinitely complex mysteries that can turn into a demon at any moment. Though, I did have a lot of social blindness and social anxiety. And I learned a pointer over 10 years ago, that anxiety is an imbalance of *education and exposure.* Too much exposure with education/context/meaning leads to anxiety. And too much education without experience/testing/exposure leads to anxiety & imposter syndrome. So I have adjusted to lean more towards exposure, life experience, immersion, raw relational sensory interactions; and then fill in the gaps with education. As the current content flooded landscape and my personal history has tons of education and mental models. I suspect most schizoids would lean on too much education and not enough exposure. So some sort of regular routine to get some reps in of social interactions, practicing social masking and communication. That would address the "it takes a village" goal. jReg a comedic creative mental illness themed youtuber, had a somewhat recent video titled "How to Cure Irony Poisoning" and I recall his solution was community (social identity).

[@VisceralGravitas]

@@don-eb3fj Dunno if my last reply got flagged by youtube or deleted as I offered an idea too extreme for schizoids. here's a shortened version: I've been trying to wrap my head around to what it's like to have the extreme paranoia side of the paranoid-schizoid mode. In a sense, I might not have enough paranoia, and just sort of surrender to that social blindspot of impossible to predict. Or maybe instead, my autistic hack is tracking patterns and seeing others as systems, instead of infinitely complex mysteries that can turn into a demon at any moment. Though, I did have a lot of social blindness and social anxiety. And I learned a pointer over 10 years ago, that anxiety is an imbalance of education and exposure. Too much exposure with education/context/meaning leads to anxiety. And too much education without experience/testing/exposure leads to anxiety & imposter syndrome.

[@kalpapadapa]

Someone recently posted a youtube video stating that empathy is actually codependency, which I agreed with, but then that person for some reason retracted that video which is fair enough, imagine the feedback wasn't very pleasant. So yeah, identifying with others who are suffering is not the same as detached compassion, and that identification, enmeshment, sounds awfully like codependency doesn't it, and it's based on resentment rather than real compassion.

[@SchizoidVision]

There is a general consensus that being empathetic is a good thing, but it's not necessarily always the case. I agree that there can be a fine line between empathy and codependency. In some situations, empathy does cross over into codependency, especially when a person has poor boundaries. Codependency, as you've pointed out, often stems from unresolved issues and also an inability to maintain a sense of self, rather than genuine compassion. Practicing detached compassion can be a healthier approach, helping to draw the line between caring about people and maintaining one's sense of self. This can help avoid forming unhealthy connections with others. I think this is a deep topic with the potential to become quite complex.

[@I-See-The-Play]

This explains a few things, I hope you post more on this subject. Thanks