Do Star Trek's Replicators Break the Universe?

[@nothingbutchappy]

"Recycle urine into drinkable water yum" That's what happens to all water in nature...

[@joshuarichardson6529]

Every drop of water on earth was once dinosaur piss. We try not to think about that too much.

[@stratvids]

​@@joshuarichardson6529if it bothered you then you just don't understand the process

[@applejaxx8950]

Yes, but the confined recycling of the piss is what's so gross. When it comes to nature, at least there are many natural filters. So that dino piss has gone through quite a process.

[@stratvids]

@@applejaxx8950 except its trivial to perfectly recycle it, cleaner than it would ever be in nature

[@jimmyzhao2673]

“Today's coffee is tomorrow's coffee”

[@ThrawnFett123]

The best explanation to me for why "replicator food tastes off" is every food is identical to the first time you had it. Not just made of the same things, in the same way. It's identical down to molecular arrangement. Once you've had it once, your mind can't help but realize how exactly the same it is, with no chance for deviations. So it becomes bland and background noise instead of delicious. They would probably be better off replicating ingredients to cook with, since the act of prepping and cooking them would introduce change and chaos into the dish

[@halfsourlizard9319]

Why would it be identical? If I ask ChatGPT the same thing, I'll get different responses, variations. Adding stochastic inputs is fairly trivial.

[@luisostasuc8135]

Well, tbf, the writer who came up with that line had no idea of what chatgpt is given that it was nearly 50 years ago. Adding stochastic noise, like you said, and being able to specify the composition of a dish would probably go a long way to fixing the problem. I'm a basic b so I'd probably get really good at it but you know there would be someone tweaking their recipe to the milligram

[@halfsourlizard9319]

@@luisostasuc8135 Lolwut 50 years ago was the early 70s ... TNG is from the late 80s/early 90s ... But to your point yes, it's the writers ... Who, I'm getting the sneaking suspicion, had little background in maths, science, computing, or engineering.

[@prestigemultimediagroup6436]

That's pretty much what most people do actually its shown in many episodes of the ds9 and tng eras

[@starfleethastanks]

That and the pattern is probably overly simple. You can make truly delicious replicator food, it just requires a lot more programming and computer space. You have to simulate how something would turn out if one ingredient was smoked in a certain way or baked at a certain temperature for a certain amount of time and under certain conditions. Most people can't be bothered with that.

[@boneyold]

The issue with the replicator, at least as I’ve read before, is that the food is meant to taste like a certain item but is nutritious aka exactly what the body needs. So you could eat sundaes all day and not be malnourished. Hence Deanna wanting a ‘real’ sundae not a manufactured one to me was her wanting to eat junk food, not something that just looked and tasted like junk food

[@atomicninjaduck9200]

Personally that wouldn't matter to me. If I could legitimately eat hamburgers whenever I wanted to without the detriments to health involved, and have it taste exactly like, say, a Whopper, and yet still be good for me... well, that would be heaven. Note: obviously I wouldn't just eat nothing but hamburgers, but I think you get my point.

[@claytonberg721]

Yes, it's probably like the difference between coke and diet coke.

[@qdllc]

If you think about it, many junk foods trigger physiological responses based on their chemical components. So, a healthy chocolate bar might taste like chocolate but lack any of the physiological impacts that make real chocolate so coveted.

[@chrlpolk]

@Atomic Ninja Duck If your idea of a good hamburger is a Whopper, then you’d probably be fine with replicators!

[@robertnett9793]

Hm. Maybe. As I understand: In a world where you can get every standardized item you want, hand-crafted stuff get's a new luxury status. Sure you can just go to the replimat and fetch your favorite dish - Or you go to the shop down the road, where a real person, with real skill makes it for you... That sounds like a worthwhile endeavor to me :D

[@pauls.4696]

One aspect I always thought about were the possibilities of replicators that have not been explored in Star Trek. If you had the ability to freely edit every aspect of a food, people would experiment with all kinds of stuff. How about ice cream that tastes like a burger or a drink that tastes like a perfectly cooked wagiu steak. Imagine the most insane combinations of taste, texture and density. Molecular gastronomy of today would look like a beginner's attempt at this.

[@johnreed1268]

Along these lines, the thing that I always think about is that a transporter is essentially an immortality device. Assuming your consciousness is not destroyed during the process, the transporter has to reconstruct every one or your atoms which means it has full control of those atoms. Filtering for disease is only a small part, it could literally be programed to repair any and all cell damage, right down to the telomers. Nobody would ever have to die of old age or really anything outside of direct trauma and even a huge portion of that can be addressed in sick bay with similar technology. If we ever get to this point in our evolution, I cannot even begin to imagine what we might accomplish. This is why I prefer the ST universe to SW. It's about US, and our potential. Thanks, Gene.

[@testpurposes3293]

@@johnreed1268 This is something I thought about before. If a copy of the person is kept every time they transport then, theoretically, if that person were to get sick with an incurable disease/ old then they are transported, a younger, healthier copy of themselves used, and there you are - a healthy person appears on the other end.

[@Cr4z3d]

That's actually a great idea.

[@Hakar17]

​@@johnreed1268We know for a fact that your consciousness continues. Because of the episode where Barclay remains aware throughout the transport process. To the point where he actively grabs a person who is trapped in the stream...

[@2bituser569]

@@testpurposes3293they we’re going to do that with Pulaski at Darwin Station but had to use non contaminated hair from her brush.

[@joliver81]

That comparison is a perfect metaphor for our current modern-day lives. “I go to the store and buy my food, already ready to cook. There’s no connection between myself and the animal I’m consuming, no connection between myself and the earth from which I’d have otherwise grown the food”. This is exactly what someone from the 1700’s would say if brought into todays modern existence. Replicators don’t eliminate the challenges, they change them to things we haven’t yet considered to be problems, essentially they eliminate the competition for resources, which would open us up to other endeavors. I’m a fan.

[@Ikaros473]

I like the way the writers of voyager approached the situation. There was a finite amount of "raw matter" that they could replicate things with. They couldn't go around replicating whatever, they had to ration it out

[@solarisortu505]

Recycle reduce reuse and close the loop.

[@Faesharlyn]

"Raw matter" being recycled waste..

[@WardenWolf]

Yes, but at the same time, replicators are shown to be able to break down and recycle things, as well. This means they should have been able to use virtually anything to replenish their matter supply, even rocks.

[@singletona082]

I always figured it was a matter of energy. 'Oh no we can't go back ot star base to refuel.' After all it's far easier to open the busard collectors to scoop up material from a nebula you're flying through than to get refined material to fuse, or to do a deep servicing of the fusion reactors so make sure they're not used too much. Which was one of those thigns i saw as voyager doing unambiguously well. 'here we have these things, but use of them is restricted because of the situation.'

[@builder396]

@@WardenWolf Maybe not rocks. Rocks are composed of silicates, aka silicon-oxygen molecules, very basically. This is headcanon to be sure, but I dont think Replicators have the ability to change one atom into an entirely other atom, only to rearrange atoms that are available. So unless you want to feed a silicon-based lifeform rocks are probably not what you want to have your food made out of. But yeah, they could probably chop down any old alien tree and get all the organic matter out of that they need.

[@shawnleeguku]

Ironically I've heard the same grievances about replicators thrown around towards 3D printing, removing the uniqueness of certain objects and items. But if you have a toy from your childhood and keep it until adulthood, and then lose it, being able to 3D print it or replicate it wouldn't give it the same sentimental value as the original. It may wound capitalism but they can't destroy personal value.

[@OrangeRiver]

Totally on the money, Shawn...no pun intended...or is it? ;)

[@shawnleeguku]

@@OrangeRiver It's a totally on the money statement for this device that helped Earth get (mostly) off the money!

[@francisdhomer5910]

I don't think it would wound capitalism. Oh it may cause a hiccup like the power loam did with weaving. But it may create a new industry. To print something you need the program to tell the machine what to do. For us who are not good at doing that we will turn to those who can. Kind of like web pages. Don't know the program language to have one? Go to a site that provides it. There will be a gap where things will change over, but humans are smart

[@ericstaples7220]

Frankly, the industrial age of mass production already got rid of individual uniqueness of the clothing, toys, jewelry ect. that we have.

[@brodriguez11000]

@@francisdhomer5910 "But it may create a new industry. " Like piratebay has created a new industry. 😉

[@jymbates9662]

I think the point Troi is making is that if she orders a chocolate sundae 5 times, she'll get five sundaes all exactly alike, tasting exactly alike. So I think you're right about the imperfections in the recipe that make it distinctive. One of the things you forgot to mention is that the replicator can learn. Like scanning does for 3D printing the replicator can do as well. There was an episode called the Survivors, where Picard beams down with a replicator. The first thing that came to my mind was If it's converting energy to matter it would need a baby nuclear reactor to make a cup of coffee.

[@nathannopants3157]

I always figured they were to some extent self powered… since they can convert energy to matter and matter to energy, they may have a small internal generator or power source just to maintain the mechanism, but the bulk of materials produced could come from any material feedstock. One pound of lead, can become one pound of steak.

[@nvfury13]

Their power generation tech is insane, their tiny comm badge could power a modern home.

[@CAOSWOLFIII]

also you can make minor alterations to said recipe and save those

[@solarisortu505]

Permanent batteries. Nuclear fusion capacitors.

[@roberthoople]

My thought was exactly the same; that it would be the sameness in replicated food that would make it the most different from prepared food. I'm pretty sure that we can't produce perfectly identical food today, for a baseline comparison. Not even precisely controlled processed foods like coca cola or Twinkies could come close to being perfect molecular clones of each other the way replicated food could. Perhaps if Coke perfects what they do to the point of making every can of coke exactly the same to the molecular level, it would taste more artificial than it already is. Going back to replicators: you would think it should be somewhat easy to build a large database of various food/drink variations/imperfections that could be utilized by a simple subroutine capable of introducing variation and imperfection at random, for a more 'realistic' experience. If anything, it's just software problem.

[@karlsaintlucy]

I grew up with the Berman-era shows in the '90s. I read all the technical manuals, I made those model starships with my dad, I designed starships myself. I have such a different relationship with these shows now, and it's kind of bittersweet. One thing I continue to appreciate about Star Trek, naive as it often seems to be, is its notion that humans are good enough that post-scarcity is possible for our species. And even if we achieve post-scarcity, there is still opportunity for all the juicy stuff of life: drama, love, heartbreak, misunderstanding. If Gene Roddenberry was working in wish fulfillment, I think that was it: to make post-scarcity seem possible and exciting and human for those too cynical to even try for it.

[@raven4k998]

yes they break the universe because they can make almost everything💀💀

[@BoopSnoot]

99.9% of the human population would live their entire lives in a holodeck. Joining starfleet sounds cool until you realize 1) Good chance you won't graduate 2) If you graduate you'll be on some useless ship running errands not the flagship 3) Extremely low chance you'll be one of the people on the bridge, and are more likely to be one of the extras with a really boring life that has no clue where the ship is going or what decisions are being made or contributing to those decisions in any way. But on a holodeck, you can be the captain, and you can have literally anything you want all the time.

[@raven4k998]

@@BoopSnoot yeah some no body having a fantasy on the holodeck to get over the fact they are serving on a crappy old Miranda class starship🤣🤣

[@BoopSnoot]

@@raven4k998 "Ensign Bad Luck Brian, you have been assigned to security detail on the USS Expendable. She's a fine Miranda class, we've stripped most of her shielding to fit in additional scientific equipment for your mission studying the Borg. Good luck, and remember to separate your laundry in the wash, reds tend to fade."

[@PyroMancer2k]

The Synthehol episode with Scotty and Diana requesting a "Real Chocolate Sundae" as well as the restriction on "Nutritional Value" is probably part of the issue. Much like how companies will change their formula for cost cutting measures and then claim, "There is no difference" to try and Gaslight the customers who say it taste different. I suspect the same is true with Replicators as it's not likely a cost cutting measure but rather made to be optimally nutritional it could potentially remove some of the "impurities" that add flavor to it. Or simply replace them with more nutritional sub-statues which some people can tell the difference on. Just because the majority of people have no sense taste doesn't mean that others can't tell the difference the way a top chief can perfectly determine the seasoning on a dish while the average person will eat both and say they are the same. It also likely doesn't help that most people were probably raised on Replicator food so they have no point of comparison and likely dismissive of those who claim there is a difference. While I don't know much about mushroom farming I do recall watching a documentary on Truffles and why they remain so pricey as people figure just farm them like any other crop. Well turns out they tried and the mushrooms came out bland and tasteless. It seems that they pull in stuff from the environment they grow in which causes them to gain their flavor and thus the wild ones were far more flavorful compared to farm grown ones. Since it should in theory be easy to mass farm a mushroom yet they remain super pricey I pretty much assume this to be true. The result of this however would be that no truffle taste exactly the same which could be another contributing factor to the "I can tell the difference" comments. If the replicator reproduces it exactly the same every time it would lose a bit of that sense of adventure where the taste of the mushrooms varies slightly. Variety is the spice of life after all. Though as potential reason I feel it's a bit more hollow than the above reason of different material substitutes causing the taste to change and most not being able to tell the difference. The reason I feel this reason is not as strong is simple Procedural generation commonly used in games so you have the same game but difference experience each time. For example take a burger it would be easy enough to replicate slightly different pieces of lettuce, pickle, onion, tomato, and whatever other topping you request as people can already customize their order. Thus it would be super easy to be like many games where their are more variations than one could play through within the life time of the universe all while stored on a very small amount of space. Because it takes parts and assembles them on a pattern to make something more complex. Thus I don't see any reason why every single replicated piece of food needs to be identical unless specifically requested. Back to the original scenes from the show though I always imagined Diana's request from a "Real Chocolate Sundae" as like Synthehol the replicator might being using a chocolate substatue which do exist in real life. And likely doesn't have the exact same flavor or give the same rush that chocolate does. People on the Pro-Replicator side tend to strike me more along the Pro-Industrialized food side where various processed materials and chemicals are added to simulate the nutritional value needed. And while this has allowed us to feed untold billions that would have otherwised starved without such advancements it often doesn't taste the same. However some people are so use to them that they actually prefer the Processed food version over natural. The replicator likely produces things in an "approved" manner which could alter the taste/texture/etc of what a "Real" dish made with those ingredients would taste like. And to dismiss the people who claim they can tell the difference as crackpots and delusional is rather close minded and cruel. Taste sensitively is just like hearing sensitivity. Just because most people can't carry a tune or be able to tell notes by ear to the point they could pick out if different notes were swapped out where most think they sound the same doesn't mean there wasn't a change. The same is true with taste as someone could have very sensitive taste to the point they can tell the differences. The same goes with other senses like people who sense of smell is so great they can pick out individual chemicals and are often paid extremely well and sought out by the Perfume industry.

[@NeoMorphUK]

You go “Yum” when talking about recycling urine to drinking water on the ISS… but tap water is crap and urine turned into the water that comes to yout home. Vegetables are crap and rainwater resequenced to eatable food. So yeah… before I even finish watching this video I would say “yes” to one day reaching Star Trek levels of replicators.

[@iindium49]

I remember people saying cellphones ruined storytelling but they just didn't know how to adapt their writing to include them. Replicators are the same . The storytelling can be done and the writing will adapt. In reality food water and shelter for everyone may just result in a "Behavioral sink" which would be catastrophic to our species . Time will tell .

[@nathanieldaiken1064]

The drama is having the knowledge of your wants innards and having matter available to make it.🤔

[@Kill3rballoon]

The “Culture” book series is set in a genuine post-scarcity society with what are essentially replicators and it still maintains excellent storytelling and drama. Let’s hope modern Star Trek writers take some inspiration from that series.

[@phydeux]

This is the same claim that's been going on for hundreds of years. The internet would ruin television and the telephone. Television ruined the movies. Movies ruined radio. Radio ruined newspapers. Telephones ruined telegrams. Telegrams ruined letter writing. And so on..... every new technology ruins someone's treasured history. Though all those older technologies still exist, even telegrams. Oddly enough.

[@GleefulNihilism]

@@Kill3rballoon In fairness, all the books in the Culture series take place near the edges of the Culture. Mostly because even the creater of the series thinks everything is boring once you get firmly within the boundaries,

[@NoahSpurrier]

People have been saying stuff like this for at least 2500 years.

[@mattwilson8298]

I'm reminded of the Tolkien line about how the best stories to hear about are not the best stories to be in. If replicators destroy story telling by eliminating the desire for physical things, wouldn't that be a great story to be in? Maybe boring as hell to hear about, but definitely the kind I want to live out.

[@raven4k998]

so, what is it resequencing into food from what.... poop?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@jwb52z9]

@@raven4k998 Raw matter is what it is, really, the elements.

[@raven4k998]

@@jwb52z9 so that's a yes you would like to eat poop resequenced into noodles gotcha now I just need the sequencing machine to make those noodles out of my poop for you to eat does Walmart have one?

[@lindax911]

Eat recycled food. It's good for the environment and ok for you.

[@jerryalbus1492]

@@raven4k998 We literally do so even today, or even any other eras tbf. How do you think lands become fertile? Processed matter. Rotten matter, dead matter, fecal matter, etc. They all get processed by nature and turned to nutrients for plants which are then eaten by herbivores which are then eaten by carnivores. Eating noodles made of shit sounds eew but if you realize your food is literally cultivated from dead plants and decaying flesh it shouldn't be a problem to you.

[@Mr-Casko]

The Star Trek toilets fed into the Food replicators….I know the physics

[@anthonybottigliero8336]

The matter has to come from somewhere…

[@seanaguilar2057]

Toilets? Just transport it out like how they do C-Sections. No mess, smell, toilet paper or bidet water.

[@evanislost]

​@@seanaguilar2057but pooping is fun, and feels good usually. Best way to start your day.

[@toottootfinn9455]

i can not believe you subs are only at 86k right now. ive been subbed for a while and just by the quality i had assumed that you had above 500k. this is criminally underrated

[@beaver6d9]

"what's on the resequencer menu today?" "Beans, greens, potatoes, tomatoes, lambs, rams, hogs, dogs..."

[@abelhernandez2381]

You name it!

[@JoJoRogain]

​@@abelhernandez2381 7 of 69

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

@@abelhernandez2381 That person pretty much did.

[@Starfighter-nk4mo]

9:00 My thing is: I’m sure they do regulate it, but at multiple points in trek we are shown civilians owning phasers and there not being a question of “where did you get that?”. I think when it at least comes to things like “small arms”; phasers in Star Trek, The federation literally somewhat approves of personal ownership. Especially when you are on some backwater planet with potentially hostile wildlife/ alien factions. Also handheld phasers having there use as a cutting tool and the stun setting would make them be viewed differently then just a modern 9mm handgun. But some manic could just start vaporizing people. Except starfleet is post-scarcity, mental health treatment is accessible by basically anyone and anywhere; and humanity has moved past our vindictive nature we carry today, for the most part, so you don’t see random people start vaporizing people on the street for no reason.

[@STSWB5SG1FAN]

@@X99-h6r Still didn't stop maniacs from acting out, it only stopped those who cared if they died.

[@rickjohnston2667]

I totally agree with everything that Starfighter 1836 just said. It was quite logical.

[@jerryalbus1492]

Bruh US citizens can have high powered rifles and some civilians literally have an entire armory so idk why it's unbelievable for you

[@momokochama1844]

according to Technical Manual of the USS Enterprise D civilian handphasers are limited to stun setting. so no fear of vaporising your neighbour

[@pwnmeisterage]

@@momokochama1844 Stunned/unconscious people cannot defend themselves. You could do all sorts of things to violate them and their property while they're helpless and unaware. "Nonlethal" phasers could still be instrumental in lethal assaults. I imagine the Federation's legal system would not treat these weapons dismissively.

[@simonashtear2739]

"The replicator is the worst thing." - writers That sounds like the way-too-common 'hot take' that, "Superman is too powerful." The Superman writers have figured out ways to get around that for nearly a century. And so did the Trek writers, "that program isn't in the database" "it's too energy intensive" "the molecule is too complex" or "that last shot took out the EPS grid on deck 23, and the replicators are offline! We're going to have to do the repairs manually." It wouldn't be too tough for replicators to become the S.H.I.E.L.D. Heli-Carriers of the Trek universe and go down with the slightest nudge.

[@kd5nrh]

IMO, the problem is the way they just macguffin it away whenever the plot calls for something to be unique or valuable. Suddenly something vastly simpler than stuff they replicate all the time just can't be replicated, for...uh...reasons.

[@HikikoAmore]

honestly the replicators are just Transporter technology. they move mass from a storage (stored as raw energy) and then they beam it into a box on a counter into the copy of a food that was "transported" into the energy storage. there is really nothing different happening here from the transporter technology itself, which is FAR FAR and away the most magical / impossible thing in star trek. but its useful for the shows because no one wants to see people taking shuttles everywhere all the time constantly, and the editors would have to put in tiny shuttles everywhere in all the scenes, because its transporter tech that has freed the skys from billions of tiny ships, nothing else.

[@cadenrolland5250]

It just makes their writing harder. Writers want to bust out scripts like link $ausages and so having problems removed from the world they are writing about makes the writers have to slow down and think about it, and then they get less done and earn le$$. This is why their are so many stories about dystopia's, they are crazy easy to write.

[@mryellow6918]

​@@cadenrolland5250 It only makes it harder if your useless.

[@Caffin8tor]

I could be mistaken, but it seems like The Orville handles this fine. As I recall, they have replicator tech and it never interferes with the worldbuilding and storyline in any way. The story takes into account that virtually any material or physical object can be quickly made if I recall correctly.

[@scifirealism5943]

The orville does the same thing Star Trek does and ignores matter replicator technology, since most Orville episodes center around resource shortages and/or acquiring rare items.

[@DavidStowers-o7k]

That episode where Bortus and Klyden become addicted to cigarettes to the point they start bitching and yelling was hilarious.

[@flexiblenerd]

One idea I have is that replicators could exist but require something rare to function, like dilithium crystals for starships and other purposes. They need some kind of raw material - so for example repurposing garbage, or possibly breaking down unusable material from mining and similar operations. This does create issues that unfortunately alter significant aspects of Star Trek, such as the Federation's "economy" - the material could potentially create a supply/demand issue that would feed back into a system of trade. While this isn't unheard-of even in Starfleet-controlled systems, one thing builds on another. It's a ripple effect. Star Trek's economy has never been fully or consistently explained in Federation worlds, and I'm not that smart, but it seems to me that this might create as many problems in-universe as it would solve for the stories. So I'm not sure how viable that is.

[@ericvulgate]

They seem eminently possible to me, and if we ever get them it will be the ultimate game changer for human civilization.

[@marktaylor6553]

Sadly, I feel they will lead to the end of us. Evolution, especially cultural, depends upon adversity. Without it, we become those near-useless obese people in the Wall-E movie. My biggest gripe with ST is that the society doesn't make sense - it assumes people will strive for goals, even when they don't have to. Just look at the few remaining primitive cultures on our planet - most are tropical. They live in an 'Eden' where you don't need to do a lot to survive. Replicators, IMO, are the equivalent of putting a McDonalds on every block.

[@DavidNash1948]

@@marktaylor6553 If you recall... kzbin.info/www/bejne/j5Orpa2neMyYlZo

[@white-dragon4424]

It would certainly save the planet and put an end to most wars.

[@Emperorhirohito19272]

@@marktaylor6553 people who live their lives today where scarcity is no issue to them do not all become obese so let’s disregard that part. Why would an end to adversity lead to “the end of us”? Advance is not some inherent good or need, people happily living their lives doing what they want because there is no need solve some societal issue isn’t a bad thing.

[@warrenreid6109]

At that point mankind becomes a non-scarcity society. A lot of problems go away with new ones taking their place.

[@ClintSprayberry]

Wooooooooo Hooooooooo! I might not be at work this day of Fri, but fortunately Orange River is still giving us Star Trek for lunch 😁

[@douglee2438]

While it was never stated, Gold pressed Latium must be impossible or nearly impossible to replicate. Otherwise it would make no sense as a currency.

[@dragonheck]

The gold is a container for Latium I believe Latium is a non Newtonian fluid which most likely has an unstable molecular structure and gold is most likely one of the few things that can hold it without messing with the structure Latium probably also has a very unique process for storing

[@nitroglyz]

Thats the solo point of it in the first place. They invented it for the one purpose to have something as a currency equivalent. Otherwise there would be nothing of value to merchant with the other aliens like the ferengi.

[@birbeyboop]

You laugh, but even without the magic of replicators, a society without poverty and scarcity is absolutely possible. Don't let anyone coerce you into losing that hope.

[@scifirealism5943]

Yep.

[@Aim54Delta]

And whose fault is it that it is not the current state of things? Do you know what work goes into making all the things of a sandwich possible? How about a train? What do you define as poverty or a sufficient triumph over scarcity to declare it a thing of the past? It is easy to look at something and think yourself worthy of it. It's another thing entirely to understand the true cost in time, talent, and effort to make it. Even in a world of replicators, clearly work must be done to manufacture ships and replicators. Energy, material - these things must come from somewhere and someone must be involved in providing them. While it is all well and good to question the current arrangement of society and ask whether or not it is good - it is equally apt to point out that many people do not envision themselves as living in service to their culture/society, but as being able to purchase without limit from its endeavors.

[@coolcoolercoolest212]

@@Aim54DeltaThere are many things that people value that don’t have financial costs. What is the cost of seeing a sunset with a loved one? How many dollars should you pay to improve at a skill? And the financial cost of things is not consistent. What’s the price of gas in Iran vs. Iceland? Money is a socially agreed upon fantasy. A piece of paper has value because of the pictures on it, not because a dollar bill is inherently better than a blank piece of paper.

[@drmadjdsadjadi]

Without poverty, yes. Without scarcity? Not possible at all. This is not because people cannot get all that they need, but there is simply no possibility ever for everyone to get what they want.

[@Aim54Delta]

@@coolcoolercoolest212 Everything has a cost. At a bare minimum, the cost of sustaining yourself. More abstractly, opportunity cost. Time spent watching the sun is time that could be spent on other things. There are associated things - was travel necessary, is it a remote spot or crowded with people who all want to watch the sun in that specific spot? These costs may or may not be low relative to the resources society has available to it, but all things, even experiences, have a material cost. I believe you may also be misunderstanding the concept of economics and cost. The economy is the exchange of goods and services. Money is simply a tool we use to facilitate a form of decentralized trade ledger. I don't need to see or believe a ledger of your contributions to society to trade with you, I just need you to part with some money that was given to you in exchange for doing helpful and useful things for others. The proof you are a mutually productive person is in the combination of money owned and goods/services exchanged for it.... Provided that system is not easy to defraud by arbitrarily printing more........ Regardless, every ounce of flour consumed in the foods you eat must be harvested and milled. It may be by machine, but that machine likely has an operator or people involved in keeping it running. That machine likely has resources it must consume to perform its tasks - fuels, oils, or, if we wish to take things to the extremes of scale - a slice of the sun's radiance out of a very large, but finite, amount of total radiance. Things must come from somewhere, and the question then becomes, how much of the total product of humanity are you allowed to use according to your own interests? Perhaps you do not want a big home, but what is the limit of your greatest research project to inject resources into? People often dream of what it must be like to live in a society where nearly anything you want can be served up, but don't envision themselves being on the hook to provide the material, maintenance for the equipment to do it, etc. They see themselves slurping smoothies on a beach, watching the sun set while on an extended vacation from responsibility. It's not wrong - it's just how people think when they have post-scarcity, post-monetary societies on their brain.

[@needparalegal]

That is where Star Trek Online got Energy Credits. To counter game breaking replicators Star Trek Voyager had to invent an energy crisis limiting replicators.

[@MacTechG4]

They addressed this issue in The Orville, where a woman from a pre-warp civilization attempts to steal the technology for the ‘matter synthesizer’ on the Orville to ‘help her people evolve’ Her motives were honest and she legitimately wanted to improve life on her planet, but she was caught and stopped, then shown what happened when an earlier Union vessel *DID* share the tech with a society that wasn’t ready…

[@Ben-rd3mg]

I feel like replicators could be a really interesting story telling mechanism if used right

[@claytonberg721]

I don't know what Moore and Behr are squawking about. Season one of DS9 episode Progress is a good showcase of the limitations of replicators, when Kira had to evict that grumpy old bugger so they could use the moon's energy to run industrial replicators.

[@brettcooper3893]

@@claytonberg721 played by the late Bryan Keith.

[@pwnmeisterage]

Voyager had a good story arc based on aliens attacking relentlessly just to get access to replicator tech.

[@Ishlacorrin]

The biggest problem is the implication of the tech itself and not how they are used. To just create something like Replicators you have to be at the point where matter and energy are 100% figured out to your people. If you can create matter from energy then you should have a near perfect understanding of both. THAT implication is the big one that is just ignored and leads to stupid situations all the time. Trek ships only use Fusion Reactors and Anti-matter Reactors for power... they should be WAY beyond those by the time Replicators and/or Transporters are a viable tech. If you have energy that well figured out, then Shields should be pointless and weapons should be about turning your enemies ships into energy instead of doing damage.

[@ShadeSlayer1911]

To me, it just seems like Star Trek writers aren't interested in using the full potential of storytelling that replicators can be used for. It seems like they're mostly used as a background technology that makes life for the crewmen very convenient, unless the plot decides otherwise. There's just so much potential that I came up with on the spot, but I don't hear much about it in the Star Trek universe. It's a lot of "okay, it's there, and here's a couple of bits about them," rather than some "but what it....?"

[@CaritasGothKaraoke]

Surprised you didn’t also mention The Orville very specifically stating that their matter synthesisers were the reason their society could move on, and how reputation replaced currency.

[@scifirealism5943]

It's called a post scarcity economy

[@TechGorilla1987]

@1:19 - Best, most concise intro music of any KZbinr that I watch. You're racking up points, my guy.

[@TechGorilla1987]

20:09 - you won't ever read this, but you have some of the BEST audio so far on the entirety of KZbin.

[@beezelbuzzel]

Awesome video as always! I got into resin 3D printing a year ago, and digitally sculpting 3d files 6 months ago. It's really neat! I sculpt scale figures pretty much exclusively. That said, I know they make "denture resin" so I assume they can print teeth. Sounds kinda goofy, but I think dentures are super expensive. Basically you can buy a printer and the resin for like 5 or 10% the cost of a set of teeth. I could really see that helping out the lower income elderly population at some point in the next few years.

[@francisdhomer5910]

I'm a model builder and I've looked at 3D printing as the next step. It can also be used to replace lost parts. I am missing a piece of a model and my son does 3D printing so I'm going to see if he can make it for me. Not sure if it will be cheaper or more expensive. As for the printing I''ve seen pictures where the project wasn't set up right and you end up, in your case, resin thread. That would be me. I think it will open a new industry as well. I can't design an item to be printed so I would need to have access to a library of design. My son has already done "work for hire" and the project took time. It looked good. Back to my first point, model making. How will this end up affecting this area? I've seen some and they look great. And it looks like it is better and easier than my scratch built ones

[@brusso456]

there already is a sonic device that when placed against your gums will allow teeth to regrow naturally. and if dental associations have their way, you will never see it on the open market.

[@stuartriddell2461]

@@francisdhomer5910 I scratch build model spacecraft (as well as terrain for wargaming/RPGs). I will be getting a 3D printer for things I need multiple, identical copies of, such as thrusters and weapons, but the main hull will still be made from Styrene and XPS foam. Maybe later, when my 3D skills improve i will start making entire ships with a printer.

[@sokjeong-ho7033]

Reply to this comment rambling about replicators or mayonnaise if you have a crush on robert picardo

[@bpdmf2798]

Energy isn't much of an issue though, they have antimatter matter reactions and the Romanulan confined singularities. I always assumed the replicators ran off of the excess power from the warp core. I suppose in homes and in cities/towns there would be a central warp core type of energy creator and since they aren't doing to warp ever that means a ton of energy for people to use.

[@twanfox]

@@bpdmf2798 You realize that in ships, the matter/antimatter reactor is primarily to make warp plasma and not as a primary power source for most of the ship. Instead, for that, there were arrays of fusion reactors. It's actually a new idea for them to tie the phaser turrets directly into the main warp reactor for additional power in Enterprise. DS-9 didn't even have a matter/antimatter reactor. Even though it was a Cardassian-built station, it was powered by several large fusion reactors near the 'bottom' of the central pillar.

[@David_randomnumber]

You could explain it away if you say replicators need exponential more energy the heavier the atoms are they need to replicate. Since heavy metals can not be replicated there still would be a need for natural resources but hydrogen, oxygen and carbon is nearly worthless.

[@travissmith2848]

Have the replicator de-materialize 500kg of common, no account, find it just about anywhere rock then get 400kg+ of whatever you want? Don't think fuel is that much of a concern even at 20% loss.

[@travissmith2848]

@@sokjeong-ho7033 If they can't where does the stuff go when they put the empties back in the machine? You'd also need (a little more than) half as much anti-matter as the mass of what you want to create. If they do work on principles similar to the transporter, the most direct way to do it would be to "beam out" generic mass from somewhere to provide an energy stream then replace the pattern with one from ship's memory. Such a conversion, however, would be better suited to high-draw short duration such as replication rather than continuous power generation.

[@BRIANONEALSINGLETON]

Excellent video essay on replicators.

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you Brian!

[@malirabbit6228]

I am so glad that I found your channel! I really love what you have to elaborate on as it pertains to Trek!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you so much!

[@TheFirstObserver]

I love replicators, both in regards to real life and storytelling. The fact the writers were so against them is rather depressing, since they have so much potential when used right. The writers honestly sound a lot like all the anti-AI/automation people you see lately. 😮‍💨

[@mbos14]

Because they do sound like them even if it wasnt intended. My phone breaks unless it years later i can go the the store and get exactly the same one. Its not a post replicator problem they are having its a post industrial revelution problem. The replacators just remove a few extra steps of going to X location to get item Y

[@springbloom5940]

🤦

[@21stcenturyMoments]

Good work and research on your youtube videos. Factual and entertaining. 👍

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you so much!

[@TheTiredTortoise]

Great video, it's fun theorizing how a future like this would operate

[@jorgnocke991]

Thank you so much great video live long and prosper🖖🏼

[@samkuzel]

Man, this was really interesting. The replicators have long been my FAVORITE tech in Star Trek (in terms of what I'd like to port over to real life). It's surprising to hear the writers say they hate them, but I can understand their perspective given they perceive it made their job harder. However, I've gotta say I wish they'd lean into it instead

[@Lia-uf1ir]

13:07 - 14:04 I think that replicators are only one component of the post-scarcity post-capitalist society in Star Trek that doesn't use money and that changed values on work or intellectual property rights. I like Rowan J. Coleman's take on this that the economy of the Federation takes some inspiration from anarchism. I mean, copyright is largely a result of capitalism in that it guarantees that I can do profit with my intellectual property and that no one else can steal it, claim it to be their own idea and thus make a profit for themselves. If profit isn't an issue, then copyright only makes sense if you want to control the distribution of your work, for example to prevent any unwanted mistakes to become public like the Doctor's holonovel Photons Be Free because it could lead to a false image of the Voyager crew and to protect the rights of the Doctor over the work as a person. Also, the absence of money and capitalism and thus people being coerced to work because otherwise they're threatened with a worse life without a home and without food (as we are in our society), the pressure for good qualifications would be gone and thus also school grades. Because school primarily isn't meant for education but to prepare us to be the cogs in the capitalist machine, to be good work drones so that capitalist economy can function by corportations accumulating profits. Therefore, I think that schools in Star Trek would be a lot more democratic, like Sudbury Schools, and that going to school isn't mandatory since people wouldn't judge you for not being good at something.

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

The Federation is a capitalist society, and does use currency. It is Starfleet that does not operate with a for profit mindset. Federation citizens trade with external worlds and Factions all the time. And people buy things from vendors as well. Many people who run businesses such as merchants, Bars, restaurants etc are required to pay taxes or for permits, or for goods that simply cannot be replicated. If your business doesn't make money, how can you pay these taxes or fees?

[@marshallhuffer4713]

I liked the vehicle replicator from Star Trek: Prodigy and how it performed like a 3D printer to create stuff rather than the usual replicators in Trek that magically conjure up stuff out of thin air.

[@nvfury13]

It isn’t magic…it is using a matter pattern (exactly like transporters use) that is used to convert energy into that pattern.

[@CAOSWOLFIII]

also its cannon that they use stuff to provide the elements of what ever they are creating.

[@littlebigx1106]

I think they can cleverly play around with what replicators can and can't do. For example, Latinum being very valuable due to replicators being unable to recreate it or Talaxian physiology being too complex like Neelix' lungs. Having them use a tremendous amount of power makes them sometimes not the optimal solution. I think the writers did great with those limitations and with that they don't necessarily break the universe. And I am sure a skilled writer could find a way to incorporate them effectively.

[@_XR40_]

"...or Talaxian physiology being too complex like Neelix' lungs..." Which would also mean that they couldn't use a transporter.....

[@XaqNautilus]

I didn't really have a problem with replicators when they were applied to things like food and uncomplicated things which was mostly how I remember them being presented in TNG. They required a big piece of hardware and a lot of power I always imagined. However DS9, as much as I love that series, threw a huge monkey wrench in that method when they introduced self-replicating mines. In order for those self-replicating mines to work they would require replication to be possible with a small emitter or some negligible piece of hardware and very little energy. It would have been more interesting as well as not as lore/immersion-breaking if they had a few cloaked "mine replicator motherships" or something instead of how they did it. In the end it was just used as a plot device, but the implications of automated self-replicating weapons is staggering.

[@bearnaff9387]

The man-portable replicator issue was brought up in the TNG episode "The Quality of Life". The exocomps were essentially small engineering AI's with micro-replicators on board. The exocomp would use the micro-replicator to both create needed tools and add more computational hardware as needed to solve problems. (This lead the exocomps to eventually add enough capacity that their onboard AI's developed enough sentience to fear death, causing them to stop obeying orders.)

[@Equinoxalpha647]

Incidentally both the transporters and replicators have a Heisenberg compensator component that without neither would be functional given the computer would not be able to coralate the location of matter in the stream to the pattern held in the buffer.

[@ethzero]

I could never help thinking that while Sisko's dad bemoaned the replicator, especially in the context of his restaurant, i do wonder where all his _ingredients_ come from? Are we sure that all those potatoes that Sisko Sr. made junior peel weren't in fact *replicated*? #boycottsiskoscreloekitchen

[@CAOSWOLFIII]

they still have farms my guy and grape fields for wine because some people are still old school.

[@sonoriuxo2437]

@@CAOSWOLFIII Indeed an old and retired Starfleet captain owns a vineyard.

[@miketheburns]

hell yeah, brother! I talk about this all the time with friends and strangers on the internet alike. I use Star Trek as the example of how a fuly-automated post-scarcity future is definitely possible. Esepecially now with AI seeming to have a foothold in every field (including the arts), a lot of people are worried about not having a job and artists' work being devalued. But I try to tell them that if all our needs are taken care of by robots and AI then we won't NEED jobs. And who cares if a computer can make better art than you? The satisfaction of art comes from both the idea and your personal satisfaction and enjoyment in creating it. If you aren't satisfied with your pencil drawing, use oil brushes. If it's still not what you wanted, use digital art software. If it's still not "good enough" for you, then use an AI to help create your art. It's still YOUR idea. Anywho, love this video and glad I found this channel. Gonna go binge-watch all of it now... Live long and prosper!

[@matthewgibson27]

Star Trek is fiction. Like the concept of Utopia. Scarcity will always exist. The poor will always be with us. Gene Roddenberry was a commie.

[@robeson1070]

Competent government... I suspect this would be directly related to their level of corporate capture & corruption. E.g. looking at the Ferengi government, marred by officials constantly demanding bribes, perhaps being used as a tool by the most powerful in their society to inhibit competition over whatever resources are still scarce & to create artificial scarcity. Meanwhile, there seems to be relatively little regulation on federation colonies by the larger government, outside of the rare use of eminent domain (Maquis colonies). Don't see much in terms of speech regulation or propaganda (e g. the Ferengi's rules of acquisition & deep-seated belief in a Divine Treasury). Barclay is allowed to get his holo-freak on. All is well.

[@timothyg967]

Troy’s ice cream problem is a software block, not a capability problem ( for nutrition)

[@timothyg967]

In TOS transporters are specifically analog devices because physics prohibits storing that much information mathematically / digitally in a usefull / functional size. Following this would prevent biofilters and place harsher limitations on replicatiors

[@AsbestosMuffins]

I'd always lean towards replicated foods being too similar, too perfect, too exact. You order a sunday, that banana is always in the exact same spot. I actually like how Brave New Worlds's Pike is making a big deal to cook when he can because the individual ingredients may be replicated but its the combination of them that really gives the food a spirit

[@kryptiqk2141]

It would be ridiculously easy to randomize it. And it would be ridiculously easy to program in different kinds. I think the it's not the same was always silly. It's the same and a computer could randomize it with ease.

[@johnwang9914]

Though it would be easy to simply have several versions of a given product and select randomly so as to give the impression that there are variations. Indeed, we do this with our video games to increase immersion. Also the randomness could be on a more basic level much as Minecraft creates a lot of variations with each seed according to parameters that limit how far from the expected norm these variations can be. There is no reason to believe that replicated foods would appear consistent and uniform to us.

[@jaysinha0]

In my opinion, the Federation is NOT a post-scarcity society. Perhaps they no longer use money but money is just a way to measure wealth. The Federation does not have unlimited wealth. For instance, what is their best starship, the Enterprise E? How many of those do they have? Why don't they have a limitless number of them?

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

Well money isn't necessarily the measure of wealth, but is simply a convenient trade medium for the exchange of goods and services.

[@dansmif]

Even if we could initially just figure out the recycling bit, that would be a huge leap forward. Instead of sending our trash to landfill, imagine if we could split the chemical bonds of an object and separate it into its constituent elements e.g. chuck in an old battery and get out blocks of pure lithium and cobalt etc.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

A first step could be to pulverize the object into the finest dust, then use a centrifuge to separate the dense and light particles. After that it could go onto further processing.

[@ThatGuy182545]

I mean…. Theoretically nanotechnology should enable us to manufacture items at an atomic level as long as the basic elements are present in enough volume. It should also be theoretically possible to recycle what you don’t need anymore. The big question is whether it can be done efficiently.

[@minhngoctran2930]

We are both creatures made of efficient advanced nano technology.

[@JOHNN01.82]

A replicator and a holodeck I would be happy that's all I want in my life

[@TheLastPariah89]

There's a reason so many things can't be replicated... Story telling!

[@LixDSL]

if writters hates replicators, it might be because they are lazy or imaginationless writters. Others wirtters does not complain about it... Maybe because they create stories that does not use traditional "go there, collect/build/find X and WP" storyline.

[@LowellaAskew]

I definitely have that same mentality as the Trekkies you mentioned. I'm all for replicators becoming a thing, even though I admit I rather like manual labour. But I also think that in such a world and time people like me could still choose to do manual labour, we wouldn't have to rely on replicators if we didn't want to. I mean while there are those who use 3D printers to print entire dolls there are still those who use them instead to print buildable models because they enjoy the build process more than just having the figure come out already fully built.

[@jwb52z9]

That's the thing. Too many people, especially in the US, want to perpetuate the idea that you have to have suffering and poverty as a threat to your life or no one would do anything.

[@lindax911]

@@jwb52z9 That, my friend, is the basis of religion. Life is meant to be suffering.

[@bpdmf2798]

You could have a farm with a replicator to make all the stuff you need to feed the animals and add nutrients to the soil and create the tools needed to farm. You could also use it for extra food if a harvest is too small or just go mix real foods with replicated foods (grow your vegetables but use replicated meat for example).

[@SirDummyThicc]

“I rather like manual labour” bruh

[@LowellaAskew]

@@bpdmf2798 Indeed. :) Supplement the manual labour aspect with the tech aspect.

[@blorbecollection]

A theory for HOW RE0LICATORS could work: Perhaps 1 way to create matter would be: Something similar to holograms, but instead gravity waves could act in RESONANCE to create a sort of gravity resonance pattern, where the gravity waves could act on VIRTUAL PARTICAL PAIRS, so sort of RIP the pairs apart, the gravity resonance at certain positions cause virtual particals to be sufficiently pulled apart to prevent them going back together and thus prevent them being reabsorbed back into space. RESULT is that the gravity resonance results in creation of matter within a 3D pattern. The energy for the matter coming from the gravity wave! Perhaps the gravity wave cuuld be from blackholes somewhere in the universe, where the device MODULATES that gravity wave, focuses in a volume space as a resonance pattern. So effectively the energy not coming from the device, but from a far far away blackholes! Effectively FREE energy and free object creation. The MASS is not coming f4om nothing, but from mass within blackholes. How to focus? Well maybe in future there may be away found too focus gravity waves, to change their speed or wav3 length, and how to modulate them. Maybe altering the gravity waves to different scales, might allow interaction with matter/modal structures/etc, to effectively allow projection of a 3D gravity wave resonance pattern that could either create matter from space itself OR act as a way of coursing specific atoms (supplied) to arrange into 3D pattern. Or even creating a field that cause atoms to become unstable and undergo fission, causing 1 type of element to become another type,forexample allowing cheap gold creation.

[@ColeHomestead]

When I left the military in '94 and re-entered civilian life I learned of a small start up company in Austin called DTM Corp. they developed one of the first 3D printer technologies. I applied for a job and during my interview with the director of service he asked me where I saw this technology in the future, before thinking of the how to answer such a question in a job interview, the Star Trek fan in me didn't hesitate and replied "in the future when the Captain orders a cup of Earl Grey Tea that our company logo will be on the replicator". I thought I had blown the interview at that point but the director stated (after what felt like eternity of pause) "well that is the most futuristic answer anyone has given me to that question, when can tyou start?". 28 years later I'm still with the company and seen us moving closer and closer to that reality with direct metal printers making replacement knees, custom nitinol stints, dental implants and now developing 3d printed bio-tissue. we are not resequencing protiens yet but still have hope to see it in my lifetime.

[@Laceon1]

This is fantastic. :) glad you got a job of the future!

[@Pandaemoni]

Replicators do complicate storytelling (though "break the universe" is hyperbole). I wonder how many times a script was written and then someone said "Can't they just replicate X and solve the problem in Act 1?" Ultimately, we live a world of scarcity, and stories often reflect that. Even in Star Trek, however, there will always be some scarcity, it's just no longer of "goods". Locations can be unique to take an easy example. Arguably there is also political power, though maybe they have evolved beyond that. Still, to write stories that resonate with us, it's nice to pretend that watching a baseball game on the holodeck is not as good as being there live and in person.

[@nathanieldaiken1064]

But, you have to have matter and know how to replicate. Remember when the Maquis stole a few replicators? Or, when the Kazon lusted after Voyager's replicators?

[@Pandaemoni]

@@nathanieldaiken1064 Right, and that's sort of the key, you have soe stories that integrate the technology, or at least that do not make scarcity of replicable goods a major point of tension for the characters to resolve. That does limit your storytelling, though I tend to think constraints are good especially when they contribute to world building

[@scifirealism5943]

Ron Moore himself hated the replicators so the writers room ignored it.

[@scifirealism5943]

Locations can't be unique because the characters use faster than light travel, they can travel billions of light years in days, colonizing billions of planets. Or create millions of starbases per star system housing trillions of inhabitants.

[@brianstiles1701]

In Mr Scott's Guide, it said that the 1701-A (so presumably its earlier versions as well), stored the matter used to synthesize food in its own pattern buffer. I don't remember if it mentioned recycling waste as well, as stated in Discovery.

[@momokochama1844]

it is stated in the Technical Manual of the USS Enterprise D (ok, it's a little bit older than Disco, but 🤓

[@pwnmeisterage]

Mr Scott's Guide is full of interesting details and interesting ideas. But it is also generally categorized as non-canon. Perhaps apocryphal canon, at best.

[@calebleland8390]

I'm sure it's a retcon, but they make reference to waste recycling/resequencing in Enterprise season 1.

[@Ishlacorrin]

@@pwnmeisterage Everything not put to screen (large or small) is non-canon in Trek, so that includes the many guides and books.

[@pwnmeisterage]

@@Ishlacorrin Some of the details from this book were used on screen. Some of these gave the book proper credit, others took it for themselves. But even the other beta-canon stuff (other licensed books and products) tend to ignore or replace this paritcular old Trek book with their own preferred versions of canon.

[@drewt1717]

Humanity will never progress until random-result microtransactions in games are eliminated.

[@HikingFeral]

Only just found your channel. not seen anybody else do in depth looks like this, I like.

[@OrangeRiver]

Welcome!

[@SolarWarden613]

You need a solid massive block of carbon

[@SolarWarden613]

Don't take any food off the ship

[@SolarWarden613]

Recycle crew that pass away

[@knightspearhead5718]

If the Federation ever lost replicators i imagine theyd lose alot of there technology especially in a timeline like the 32nd century or so in Discovery

[@mathieubordeleau150]

Ever heard of STC in Warhammer 40k, essentially replicators only doing one technology but you have different one for any complexes tech, Mankind have become so dependent on them since there is no need to understand hoe the tech is build, losing a STC is losing a technology and even when they have them innovation has stopped!

[@knightspearhead5718]

@@mathieubordeleau150 warhammer is why i thought of commenting this

[@JeremyWS]

Part of me thinks that if replicators are one day invented, they will never be as good as the ones shown in Star Trek. I think some scifi tech just will never be possible, at least not to the level shown in scifi. I hope that makes sense.

[@pwnmeisterage]

Sci-fi of the past promised us things like massive supercomputers, laser rifles, fusion power, and flying jetcars. As technology improved the real world instead gave us tiny supercomputers, plastic assault rifles, lithium batteries, and Tesla electric hybrids.

[@matchesburn]

I do not agree with the writers and staff on the show that think replicators are inconvenience or bad plot devices. First of all, Ira Steven Behr is... just flat out wrong. No, a society that has replicators is not "doomed." That's... such a silly damn statement. However... that COULD be said for a Holodeck. It's been mused that if humanity invented the Holodeck, it would be our last invention because everyone would just be using the Holodeck all the time. And, in the greatest hypocrisy, what device is constantly used as a story mechanic in TNG, DS9 and Voyager? Oh. Yeah. The Holodeck. Which, ironically to boot, uses Replicator functions inside of it. As for the idea of "nothing is unique" - well, we already see that today to some degree. It's much easier to make and sell something for profit today if it's all the same and uses the same design, same parts, same everything. So why is that suddenly going to be a problem several hundred years from now? And as for the Replicator being bad because it can fix all the story's problems? Also not a valid argument. "Geordi can just go down to engineering and make another whatever"? (Also, ironically, Navy ships have an engineering room with a milling machine and lathe and other machinery to do just that and have since before WWII. So... Not a new concept even in our world, just different technology.) Okay, what if it's something that's too large for the replicator to make? What if it takes too much energy to make but could in theory be done? What if it's not on file with the replicator? I mean, when Barclay gets zapped in "The Nth Degree" he ends up asking the computer to replicate and devices and the computer is like, "I don't know what that is, therefore I can't make it" and an annoyed Barclay then goes to tell the computer how to make one off-screen. Wasn't that difficult to write around it, was it? If you're a writer and you're complaining that replicators are ruining your ability to write... quite frankly, you need to start doing a better job of writing around them instead of bemoaning how awful it is that it's in your setting.

[@TheG21145]

This is VERY well put together. Great video !!

[@OrangeRiver]

Thank you!

[@morockapdx7174]

The Replicator brings up one of the big challenges for writing fiction about the future, or futurism in general. Or further by extension any quasi post scarcity society. Beyr and Moore, some of my favorite Star Trek writers are also some of the most irreverent regarding the bradberrian secular humanist vision. I appreciate their challenging the philosophy, buy I also wonder if they failed be it was just too hard to write for. You Don't have to have a perfect post scarcity environment, or perfect replicators to serious challenge the status quo of society. If a significant portion of the cost of production is near zero, it becomes much harder to justify menial labor. Automation, makes this contrast more stark. Shifty to a society that subsides living to free people to explore STEM, and other activities, is possibly the most healthy approach. Otherwise, the most cynical extremes of dystopian economic models play out. How much does it make sense to work meaning less jobs when automation and technology have relegated your labors redundant? Worse, still, if the those holding the means of production just cut you out. William Gibson has explored this to its several logical extents. In the book Trekenomics, just using existing GDP trends we would have an effective quasi post scarcity capacity within ~250 years. So, we have to grapple with these issues, at some point. Assuming, we don't collapse before then.

[@architectofdreams73]

Unfortunately, I believe society and the economy will need to collapse if we are ever going to hope to transcend the misguided need for monetization

[@morockapdx7174]

Of course, maybe. It’s easy to bet against the future, as we are wired to be suspicious and fearful. That is in part why I doubt the inevitability or our doom. At least in the short and mid term. Trekkenomics, speaks to the monetary issues. It’s states, and I am summarizing, that in about 200-250 years GDP could globally reach the point where the cost of production for virtually all goods and services, at least related to the first three levels of well being, down to essentially zero. That being food/shelter, health, and education. Meaning, that we typically don’t exploit for profit abundant goods. And if there is enough abundance for all this basic needs, then there is no need to price them for efficient distribution in markets. It’s assuming for trends to hold, but the point is, that it could reach a point where we are faced with a quasi post scarcity society. And coming to terms with that means, I think, we should act as though we have something to actually lose. Not, assume we are doomed anyways.

[@pottierkurt1702]

You could replicate an army that would dwarf the borg, replicate new eyes for Jordy, real skin for data, and perhaps some actual betazoid skills for Deanna TroI. Tottaly immersion breaking.

[@CAOSWOLFIII]

it all boils down to the programing to be honest and in the future people don't think of that cuzz they be stupid as fuk i mean really 1 guy wanted to take data apart so that they could make more a race of datas and what s that,... slaves thats what that is. 1 guy said hey lets make slaves yeah... yep dumb as fk

[@happy.in.philippines757]

Replicators plus fusion energy production would be the key technologies enabling a post scarcity society. Advances in science and understanding how to manipulate matter on the subatomic level seem to be the key to making replicators (and eventually transporters) happen. I'm hopeful we will one day achieve this.

[@CheerfuEntropy]

replicators aren't necessary for post scarcity, just a bit more automation. Which is good because you couldnt do replicators or teleporters because simply placing all the molecules at the rate they appear would cause enough waste heat to reduce everything to charcoal. Just moves too much mass too quickly

[@travisfoster1071]

Only in a Sci fi writers mind.... it will never happen.

[@Emperorhirohito19272]

@@travisfoster1071 it’s really one of the least far fetched Star Trek technologies. replicators just work off an advanced application of the real rule we know exists that matter is just a store of energy, we make energy, we have some understanding of the principles of converting energy into matter, it follows our mastery of this will improve. Replicators don’t need unreal physics to come to be like warp drives would.

[@travisfoster1071]

@@Emperorhirohito19272 most far fetched.... don't try to justify Roddenberry magic solutions. I hate that.

[@Emperorhirohito19272]

@@travisfoster1071 how is it the most far fetched? We’ve literally done what replicators do in labs. Create matter using energy. Warp drives break the fundamental laws of physics, as far as we know they are either completely impossible, or require exotic matter, which we have never observed to exist. Teleportation also seemingly breaks the fundamental laws of physics… but sure bro, the tech based on actual physics is the craziest for you😂

[@imthepantyraider1]

The ferengi have replicators yet still yearn for wealth, the cardassians have it and still want control, the borg most certainly have it yet still crave perfection. Items aren’t the only things in the universe that have value, it simply depends on what it is you seek.

[@AdamTehranchiYT]

It's always odd hearing writers complain about a constraint that they have to work around. Great video 👏🏻

[@ASlaveToReason]

The one thing ive never heard being replicated is the bacteria good or bad that should accompany food. Giving our gut bacteria is being understood to be its own bodysystem i could see the lack of healthy bacteria in repliciated food being not good for you. But immunue health probably matters little on a tin can in space vs a real biome.

[@mrgreatbigmoose]

Beautiful point! What is replicated cheese?

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@mrgreatbigmoose frequently derided as not real cheese by other chefs, or even Neelix. But probably better than American Cheese still

[@ghosttwo2]

Holodecks are just as bad. Why have a ship the size of a stadium, when the whole crew can fit in a large room? The 'ship' could be an entire city, with the environment tailored to every occupant on a whim, like a big group lucid dream. Would also solve the problem of bad guys hiding in jeffries tubes and many other common security issues. So many systems would be obsolete when the entire interior is holographic.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

What about smell? No walls to block the smell from others, surrounded all day, you'll die by body odor

[@ghosttwo2]

@@youtubestudiosucks978 Everybody seems to have their own isolated air pocket. Think of 'maps' where someone is out in the snow, and somebody else is inside by the fire. I think there might've been a winter version of that Voyager pub. And the holodeck inheirits any sci-fi magic applied to replicators and the doctor, including super strength, artificial organs, etc. The holosystem could enhance any security teams while observing and weakening any intruders. Not great for tv, but an entirely new form of existence if it was reality.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

@@youtubestudiosucks978 Or from crewmates cooking Curry.

[@SquishyProductions]

As it's been famously said, capitalism has integrated itself so completely into our culture that it's far easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism. So when you're writing about a post capitalism society, where everyone's needs are met and scarcity is a thing of the past, then you're going to struggle. Because you can't imagine what that kind of world would look like. What kind of struggles and problems they would have because they'd be completely different problems than what you have. Additionally, problems are relative. Your can opener breaking a month after you bought it is a problem and frustration to you. But someone living in a third world country would laugh themselves into tears if you complained about it to them. But that doesn't mean flimsy can openers aren't a problem and it doesn't make your frustration with them invalid. People are always going to have problems and those problems are going to be relative. No matter if there is no scarcity. It's just that post-scarcity problems are going to look as silly to us as that can opener does to someone starving in a third world country. So they don't make good stories for us.

[@magnusasgeirsson7244]

The point of the replicators is that they make the Federation a post scarcity society and if you remove them it won't be

[@themadtitan8565]

I remember how the Kazon was surprised to find the replicators in enterprise

[@Safer7Sephiroth]

Replicators work well story-wise as long as they have set limitations. Make replicators need to pull from various different types of matter. You can't replicate food from just raw iron ore, for example. Voyager doling out replicator rations saying that replicated things were a finite resource when cut off from a regular supply chain was good writing.

[@talbotlynx]

When someone explained how a replicator worked to me as a kid, I asked a question that still confounds some people to this day. "So the future economy is even more energy based than it is now?" My brain started putting together war scenarios where energy was at a premium in some places and overabundant in others. There were situations like slave mines on some planets devoted to producing energy ores and fluids to churn the society there forward.

[@Yogoretate]

I'd argue the "replicated food is less nutritious" is just a 24th century nod to the "microwaved food is less nutritious" belief.

[@Axzuin]

I think replicators are one of their best technologies and would inspire/allow technologies that would otherwise be impossible. A great example of this in our modern world is how many new technologies are coming about due to 3d printing.

[@Forsworcen]

Does it make storytelling more difficult? Yes. Does it lead to societal collapse? Absolutely not. That sort of technology has the potential of removing most material cost from just about everything, in reality it should even work on so-called scarce materials too.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

True, the replicators still need the raw elements to work with. The writers can easily make up a story about a *shortage* of a certain ingredient or 'unobtanium' that makes the replicators work.

[@grugnotice7746]

After watching that episode where a malfunctioning replicator cloned Riker I realized that every single person who was ever beamed somewhere died only to be replaced with a clone. Also made me realize that every major species in the show is completely stupid because they could have an unlimited number of soldiers ready to go by simply reading a "donor" soldier into a dedicated buffer and transmitting them multiple times. Not only that, but every ship could have multiple clones of the best engineer, be lead by the best captain, crewed by the best scientist. It would quickly become a very weird show. And don't get me started on suicide warp core drones.

[@Beuwen_The_Dragon]

One thing to remember about the Federation, when it comes to civilian Weapons. In numerous cases we see that Civilians on Federation Worlds/starships/colonies are free to keep arms for personal protection. This includes hamdheld phasers, disruptors, plasma weapons, rifles, even Shipboard armaments on non-starfleet vessles. Even Guinan kept a privately owned Phaser Rifle under her bar in Ten Forward, aboard the Flagship of the Federation.

[@GeorgeMathias1]

In context of Startrek replicators are a must. The cost of using them for all will not be viable. It will not break the universe.

[@TheFinagle]

Im glad you went through different implementations as different tech. Real replicators are pure energy to matter conversion. As long as you have a big enough generator or battery make what you want. That said you still need that power so you would still need industry to make enough power to feed everyone. In theory you probably could replicate dilithium and the fuel to run your warp core (with a fancy enough replicator) BUT it would always be at a loss, taking more power to make than it could ever give back. I could be wrong but I dont think replicator efficiency is cannonized anywhere. That plate could still have a cost even after being recycled.

[@NatureNurtureAndNerd]

I recall an episode in which a man who was thawed out from the past stated something along the lines of “what is there to do or strive for if not for money?” Which Captain Picard responded to by saying something about the goal being to better oneself, strive to learn more and be at the top of your ability. I have always appreciated that. I took advantage of the freedom I had to get multiple science degrees, learn several new skills, and better my art. But I know many people who would have just rotted in front of the tv all day. So I suspect if we had replicators, and all of our needs met without needing to earn money for it, that a significant portion of the population would just let themselves sink into an unhealthy laziness.

[@HannahFortalezza]

I disagree. Inevitably there will be some that are lazy and do nothing, but I suspect the vast majority would do things that give them more fulfilment. Just look at the uber wealthy from the renaissance to the 1800’s - they had a lot of free time on their hands and ended up creating a lot of art, music, inventions just for the fun of it. Many have plans they’ll never accomplish because of the system we live in today

[@jette24]

The orville had a great episode on this..the girl tried to steal tech not realizing it would kill a society that wasnt ready for it...its the final show in season 3 called future unknown

[@christopherweber4745]

What broke with exponential explosion was a Ferengi engineer's development of self-replicating mines (equipped with self-replicating replicators). Ah-ha, all of everywhere now kneels to me! My manufacturing and recycling powers destroy and recreate all to my whims.

[@SnarkNSass]

Merry Christmas Tyler 💝🎄🖖🏻

[@Leto85]

Replicators can make writing stakes into stories more challenging, but I wouldn't leave it out in a futuristic society as advanced as that as Star Trek because it would make much more sense that they can replicate things than that they couldn't. It'll bring new challenges. This video already shows a replicator's limitation, as well as some people blatantly refusing to use them for whatever personal reason they could have. Nowadays not everyone has a smartphone, even if they could afford it. That alone gives room for not only character background, but character change as well when they are either forced to use a replicator to move the plot along or when they have to convince another character not to use a replicator to move the plot along. But I love the limitations of the replicator itself, as this means that there is room for improvement and a Star Trek person could witness that if they would accidently travel to a time that is futuristic for them in let's say the year 3000. Maybe people don't even need to eat then because the human body has been adapted in such a way that food is no longer a necessity.

[@bertilandersson6606]

Replicator is an amaizing feature of the Star Treck universe. Writers that dont like it lacks imagination. More episodes should have been devoted to what crazythings one can do with replicators, philospical dilemmas, what happens to us when things lack value etc

[@scifirealism5943]

Yep.

[@Argon314]

I appreciate the difficulties a technology like this might cause for storytelling, but I think a better attitude would have been to embrace it and explore the implications it would have. That’s a big part of why people watch Star Trek. They’re story opportunities that could only exist in these shows.

[@seitbekir]

I thibka replicators does not break the story. It just hides an unnecessary things, that could throttle the main story. When you have only 40 minutes, it is better to have this wunderwaffe.

[@jimmyzhao2673]

Indeed, just kike how the *transporter* was used to speed up the storytelling so the characters didn't need to faff about with shuttlecraft to get to a planet.

[@PeteL527]

All a replicator is… is a 3D Printer for molecules. So if you have a energy source and a replicator. You can live ANY WHERE. Middle of Siberia? Antarctica? Deserted island? No problem!

[@svensshed1564]

Its interesting, but the Orville addressed this in its episodes where they talk about it. They say that once a replicator was available it completely changed society

[@Mexishark909]

I always figured Replicators were the biproduct of creating Teleporters. Creating matter from nothing or transferring energy is something they already did with Teleporters, especially since they had Teleporters first, they didnt have replicators in the original or enterprise series they only showed up on The Next Generation. Which means Teleporters came first, and Replicators second. Its the same concept turning energy into matter.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

What if they teleported things from somewhere else? You eating a nice sandwich and just about as you take a bite suddenly it gets teleported away because somebody else asked a matter replicator for that same type of sandwhich

[@Mexishark909]

@@youtubestudiosucks978 I dont mean like that but Teleporters turn matter into energy and then beams it to the next location and turns the energy back into matter. According to one of the Next Generation Episodes, they are reconfiguring existing matter into food. Basically turning crap into food. And it being related I mean its a biproduct like Microwaves were discovered as a biproduct of creating Radar.

[@youtubestudiosucks978]

@@Mexishark909 it would be funny, you just got your groceries and suddenly it teleports to the other side of the universe, everybody would be constantly teleporting food and then everybody would starve lol

[@chrisalmere20]

I think that the thing with replicator foods is that a certain chef creates a real dish, according to nutitional requirements. and that dish is then scanned and put on file. Example, when tom paris in the pilot episode of voyager orders tomato soup he gets a whole list of variations, not everyones secret recepy, just a list of pre aproved meals. Also in this example we see that he gets annoyed that there issnt just ''plain tomato soup'', that would indicate that what he was used to; jail or his home, wassent the default choice. Therefor we can conclude that civilian replicators are indeed limited. As far as icecream goes, The replicators are like transporters, but a LOT smaller, It only makes sense that they got a lower resolution. where a transporter needs to place brain cells in the exact same place, a replicator doesnt have to be that accurate. so if you order a steak the replicator can miss a seasoning particle, or get connective tissue wrong, essencialy it still tastes the same but its missing that little something (just like modern day vegan replacements). I think thats why there are plenty of bars and restuarants all over the world, and they are plenty visited. Also as seen on DS9, the replimat is less visited then quarks, Id say the replimats owner got chefs that arent UFP aproved, yet aproved enough that they got a buisiness licence (same as quarks) Yet theres definetly a thing to be said for the real deal. Example, when worf and jadzia got married, the bachelor party were given the choice between replicated juice or waiting for the chefs to squeeze the berries, despite being exhausted and dehydrated, they chose to wait a little. As far as economy is conserned, It was said that after first contact men lost their greed and focused on bettering themself, I think its impossible to get into that mindset without experiencing 3rd world war followed by a first contact, But i do think it is possible for humanity to realy bond together and work toward a common goal, but how long this can be maintained is the real question. But if you give everyone free housing, clothes and food, you are taking away that "stick" that forces you to take up in the morning, force feed and go to work. Id say it would make a LOT of very lazy people. Its more of a communists wet dream, plenty of free for everyone, and everyone is hard at work. But as history has shown us, that doesnt work.

[@swordguy8]

"They mean there's no value to anything." I believe they show what truly has value. There are things that can never be replicated. Our individual emotions and experiences. Our connections to others. Our hopes, dreams, and desires. If we didn't have to worry about objects breaking, or the stress of money (and all that it gets us), we could spend more time focusing on what actually matters to us. I believe replicators would allow us to actualize our true potential.