Do Tenor Ocarinas Exist? (Different Types of Ocarinas) || Ocarina History

An introduction to the names used to classify ocarinas around the world, and why companies use names like Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Bass Ocarina ⬇LINKS⬇
Contact STL and ask them to “please consider using the same naming system that other ocarina makers use around the world! “
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A native of San Antonio, TX, David Erick Ramos is a professional ocarinist with a goal to inspire people to challenge themselves musically and connect with others through the ocarina. Since 2007, David has used KZbin as a platform to showcase the instrument with original and cover music, as well as his educational series "OcTalk!", featuring tutorials and informational videos about the ocarina.
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[@GinaLuciani]

Thanks for all of the info David - always love learning more about the ocarina!

[@mysticsaru8577]

Heyy i love your channel too

[@nairdacnalbel]

it's likely a business tactic. If you are a beginner and want a "tenor" ocarina, they have a monopoly on a nonexistent market.

[@caseygreyson4178]

They should include a video of someone playing the full range of each ocarina, so that you can hear the sound quality as well as the actual musical notes!

[@mikeexits]

They do have sound demos for most of the Ocarinas, but I agree in that I wish their porcelain and clay ones all had demos for them.

[@BatPotatoes]

I'm still semi-convinced that they stick to Tenor because it makes it more difficult for first or second time customers to do comparison shopping for equivalent range ocarinas from other sellers

[@Ocarinist_Drew]

This is why every ocarina maker should list the exact range of their ocarinas. A lot of the confusion would be circumvented if they would just say "range: A4 - F6" on the listing. Instead, you usually have to find this information in the questions/reviews section. It also doesn't help that the Alto C--perhaps the most sought-after type due to the Ocarina of Time being an Alto C--is also the one with the most confusion around it.

[@thepurplejellothing]

I agree! I myself have an Alto C from wind ocarinas.

[@mikeexits]

STL lists the range of all their ocarinas in the format you mentioned here, in the descriptions.

[@OcarinaOwl]

This video was much needed, David. You hit on many important points and I’ll be sure to share this video to clarify with beginners who ask about Tenors. Hopefully STL adopts the Asian system since TNG also uses it. So glad Gina also commented too!

[@FreckledZelda]

That intro 🤣🤣

[@dreaalmaes770]

Hiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!!!!! I’m subbed

[@nathanhunzeker6033]

I have only know about ocarinas for 2 weeks, and almost was immediately confused between alto c and tenor c! This will help clear things up for me!! Thank you!

[@Kaitsubasamanta]

I think it’s a little confusing having their own system.. I also agree with you on them adapting the Asian system! That would be so much easier to understand! Thanks for making this video!

[@LinkettePuschellord]

I think they could just add 'also called like this' in addition to their own classification so customers who have been purchasing there for years won't be confused and other buyers will be able to understand their system.

[@RoxyRocksTV]

That’s a solution but wouldn’t it be more confusing to read “Tenor also called Alto C”? 🤔

[@RoxyRocksTV]

Maybe they can put “Alto C - previously called Tenor but 🤫 “ XD

[@your_virtuoso]

My only ocarina is the ocarina of time from STL. I had no idea I enjoy Gina's video's too I'm still learning

[@mikeexits]

That was my first, and so far only. It's definitely much better than just a display piece, it's a great functional instrument! I sold it a long time ago, but now that I know I'll be doing music professionally and love the sound of an Ocarina (I love flutes but I want something a bit more unique and less overdone) I'm going to be buying the Water elemental Ocarina from STL since it's the range I'm most interested in. Hope your experience is going well! And I hope the person I sold mine to got a lot of use out of it. One day I want a Porcelain one too, I love the sound and the white and blue design of the STL "Tenor" one (not to mention it's a fraction of the price of the other Porcelain ones lol, I'd much rather buy a Moog Matriarch for $2,000 or even a Synthstrom Deluge and Elektron Digitakt or Syntakt than a Porcelain multi-chamber Bass ocarina).

[@igorabdoaguilar9331]

Thanks for making the video David! This confusion even reached Brazil, sometimes I help out ocarina makers on a few things and this is a subject that has come more than a couple times, the ocarina makers asking about STLOcarina. I have a huge respect for them for helping the ocarina get more popular. I'm trying to emulate this in Brazil while learning from mistakes done in the popularization of the instrument in other places. I learned a few new things in this video! Even doing research in college for the ocarina, It's still awesome to see new things with the ocarina on a youtube video xD

[@JBergmansson]

Another maker also has Tenors: Charlie Hind at Hind Ocarinas calls his low F ocarinas tenor F. He has Alto C and Bass C ocarinas pitched the same as their asian counterpart, but the F that sits between them, he calls a tenor. This makes perfect sense in my opinion. I might classify the Muse ocarina from songbird as a tenor as well.

[@ZeldaACFan17]

Exactly! I would think of my STL Earth and Ice ocarinas as "proper" tenors as well, since they are in between a Bass C and Alto C.

[@michaelshort2388]

Hearing your explanation, I agree with you. I will, going forward, refer to all "tenor" ocarinas as alto :)

[@jojofamouswingate2406]

My musical journey began with you just last summer, David. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and experience. I love you. I buy STL ocarinas, as well as ocarinas from other companies recommended by you. I think every company should offer the most correct information. Especially those who are also educators. Musical noobs like me will just believe anything we're told, because we don't know any better.

[@seselis625]

I've had a lot of issues with STL not labeling ocarinas appropriately. First one I got was labeled as a SC and I could not figure out why everything felt so wildly out of tune until I contacted them to find it they already knew it was mislabled and was actually in E (four years later I see this ocarina is still mislabeled). This type of issue is super demoralizing before you realize you're not just playing poorly, and the confusion the tenor/alto thing creates in the community means it's a question everyone is constantly fielding. There is an accepted structure, and deviating outside of it just creates needless confusion; at the very least there *needs* to be clarity in the fact that it's generally not called by this name.

[@mikeexits]

This is just me, but I find it a bit odd to omit the Tenor name in general if you're going to have Alto and Bass with in-between ranges. Tenor is between Alto and Bass. I don't know, it makes intuitive sense to me so I don't mind it.

[@seselis625]

@@mikeexits I agree, that naming convention is strange initially - STL omitting alto doesn't solve that problem though. The community has a standardized nomenclature that only one company disregards, which is incredibly confusing to new players. That's what I don't like.

[@cjam777]

i was looking at STL ocarina and it was bugging me so much considering I've never seen others been considered this way, thanks for clarifying this!

[@OcarinaOwl]

Can’t wait! I’ll be sure to tune in

[@ActualCharky]

IMO if they're selling ocs made to fit the Asian system, they should be labeling them using that system.

[@originalstarwalker21]

I agree, it literally says it on the Ocarina itself.

[@jason.carlson]

I'm new to learning about this instrument and it is confusing. I didn't hear about STL or their naming system at first and instead the first searches got me believing the naming systems were tied to international vs Asian tuning (440 vs 442hz or even 445). Your video helped me understand the different naming systems but having never heard of them before, the STL method makes a lot more sense because SATB terminology is very common in vocals which is my background. So I think their marketing is much less confusing to a newbie like me coming from that background.

[@kristinalago]

Yay! Thanks for good explanation, David. Now I have something to share every time when people say about 'tenor' ocarinas.

[@mikeexits]

I have to admit, even after learning what's said in the video I find it more odd to leave out the Tenor name in the range when you've got all incremental tonal ranges available between Contrabass and Soprano. Tenor is between Alto and Bass so as far as I'm concerned it would've made more sense if the original makers included Tenor, but for all I know Tenor could be a recently invented term. I don't know much music history, I just know what I've picked up through experience since I was an older child.

[@EllaTraxi]

Super informative and helpful, David! I can use this in my explanations when folks ask about tenor ocarinas :)

[@gutsman7669]

Love your videos David!!

[@DavidErickRamos]

I appreciate that, thank you!

[@amitabhakassap7339]

Amazing analysis! Thanks for those mind boggling details!

[@DavidErickRamos]

You’re very welcome!

[@DOCTORmakenstuff]

@@DavidErickRamos while i do think it adds a bit more complexity i also think that they should be allowed to label them as they please! they make/sell them how they do business is well their business, they aren't trying to disrespect any thing they just think about the classification differently. it takes all kinds lol no hard feelings you make great vids

[@sar0jam]

You should do more history/info of the ocarina type videos this was a cool vid

[@CurstSaden]

I have been hunting for a good beginner ocarina so I can start learning how to play the instrument. Most people say I should start with an Alto C, but STL had me so confused! Gina's video also had me confused. THANK YOU for clarifying this for me! I really wish STL would commit to the Asian system; they would get more new customers who stick with the instrument longer if they were in line with the rest of the world!

[@colbygreen4548]

David thank you for the information I have been so confused by this for a while

[@memesxy95]

I'm glad I found your channel during an ocarina hypoerfocus, this is super interesting

[@Lancs1812]

That's really helpful David. Thank you :)

[@MattHooker]

this definitely threw me off when I was first starting out. ok it was like 2 weeks ago, but still. I'm glad this video exists now for others' benefit, and the full explanation is fantastic!

[@EmilyRWiggins]

Brilliant. Well said, David. I think it would simplify a beginner's approach if STL were to change their classification system. Great video, man, keep it up.

[@DavidErickRamos]

Thanks so much Emily!

[@ZeldaACFan17]

I wouldn't change much, just the "Tenor C" ocarinas being changed to Alto and the Alto F and G ocarinas being changed to Soprano

[@kodylprygl]

As always a good and informative video David. I think STL should change over the Asian classification system. As a european myself I did not really noticed this, as I have very few asian styled Ocarinas. Keep up the good work, I am proud to be a patreon.

[@ryvyr]

Cheers David, I appreciate the correction and no longer being confused on the matter! Indeed STL should change their naming convention, especially being so prominent it feels at minimum proper conduct.

[@TehEpicAsian715]

based on the 7-size system, wouldn't it be easier if you simply switch out "Bass" for "Tenor" and "Contrabass" for "Bass"? Since it's not like they are expanding the common consorts soon, using a compromise of the European system and what the Asian/Japanese system simplified the 21-size system to could be helpful since literally most other consorts of instruments have Soprano, Alto, Tenor, and Bass at the core of their naming system. I dunno, it's also not like the "Bass" ocarinas are super "Bass-y", so it could be helpful to make "Bass" into "Tenor" and "Contrabass" into "Bass".

[@astridposey]

Lowest C on the bass is the lowest note on a viola. Which itself is considered an Alto instrument. XD so.... you're not wrong.

[@mikeexits]

I had similar thoughts to this as well. It makes no sense to me why the Tenor name was omitted at all in the first place. It's known to be between Alto and Bass, and Ocarinas have incremental tonal ranges in between scaling from Contrabass (even going by what you said, surely the "world's largest Ocarina" as shown off by STL in a video demo would at least be considered Contrabass, if not lower) to Soprano, so why leave out the one at the very center of the scale? I wonder if this is part of STL's (and other vendors') reasoning for sticking with the Tenor title. Personally I'm all for it.

[@randomizename3846]

A thousand thanks for explaining this, I recently got interested in ocarinas but I found it hard to understand why tenor ocarinas were so hard to find

[@JohnLee-sk5py]

Thanks for clarifying.

[@lmclrain]

thanks for the video, quite interesting topic

[@MarkChan]

Very nicely done!

[@DavidErickRamos]

Thanks dude!

[@MarkChan]

@@DavidErickRamos also love the IKEA furniture! We all have the same stuff, haha!

[@zeeutman]

I was so confused by her classification thanks bro

[@da_durpyburger5904]

I just ordered some ocarinas from STL and I also think they should adopt one of these naming system's

[@RoxyRocksTV]

That is so confusing : AC (Alto C) = TENOR ?

[@carterjcarroll]

According to STL lmao

[@535Salomon]

It just shows that they want to sell you a Tenor ocarina but their stock is ZERO...

[@ZeldaACFan17]

The Tenor G and F ocarinas would be tenors in my mind because they are lower pitched than Alto C ocarinas, and even Songbird calls their F and G ocarinas that are lower pitched "Tenors" because, well, I think it makes sense

[@ZeldaACFan17]

But Tenor C in STL's system is confusing, I agree with that

[@originalstarwalker21]

@@ZeldaACFan17 that is the equivalent of Alto G and F

[@thepurplejellothing]

Wow! I never knew there were so many types of ocarina! I have an Alto C ocarina so I guess its Tenor? ;-) I thinking about buying a bass ocarina one day. I like how giant they are =) Thanks for making this video! I wanted to make an essay for school about ocarinas and this really helped for information!

[@Ceol-Cluaise]

I could see it going either way. If they decide to switch to the SAB naming convention, problem solved. If they stay with their own SATB system, they could simply provide a page describing "here's our system" and here is how it compares to "everyone else's system" in Asian markets. In my experience with the site, I just look at the stamped label on a given ocarina. I also check the scale / range, which they provide for all their professional and semi-professional instruments (i.e. all their ceramic, purple clay, porcelain models). If that doesn't work, there is also general size/weight comparison to nail it down. E.x., a ceramic alto G (AG) ocarina can only be so big/heavy without becoming a different tuning, regardless who made it.

[@Samusdude123]

I've been wondering why it's so difficult to find ocarinas that aren't tuned to anything but c, g or f; this clears that up, thanks.

[@ProfessorJayTee]

I have often wondered what the hell a "tenor" ocarina was, since I'd never seen one anywhere... I'd just visited the STL website when I found your eye-opening video by pure chance. Thanks for saving me from wasting money. I might not've been careful enough to notice.

[@GreatSirZachary]

David you are the ocarina loremaster! You've done so much for this community.

[@3DSage]

4:27 So the standard method messed up and left out tenor for no reason, but STL is correcting it and is doing it right?

[@donaldengelmann6906]

I respectfully disagree with the point made in this video. having some previous music background, it was very confusing for me to be unable to find a tenor ocarina when I first started. I have also had others point to this strange and arguably incorrect naming scheme when making the case that the ocarina is more of a toy or a niche ethnic instrument than something that should be taken seriously. I am glad that STL is taking steps toward correcting the mistakes made in the past and bringing the ocarina more in line with the rest of music.

[@reaper84]

Thanks for the video. I was super confused, by the STL naming system, mainly because I have never seen Tenor ocarinas anywhere else. Also, I thought Alto must have a higher pitch, but was even more confused, as i discovered AC ocarinas where identical to the one I already owned from STL. They should really stop sowing confusion, as their TNG ocarinas already have an actual classification printed onto them.

[@RakuenToJigoku]

You just posted this while I was very confused on STL's website searching for an ocarina lower than my alto but not as low as a bass xD. So, if I understood well, what I was searching doesn't exist at all ? There is no in between ? (By the way, thanks again for your quality content ! I learned so much in this video !)

[@astridposey]

You would want an Alto F or an Alto G. Which on STL's site would be called tenors.

[@mattlawyer3245]

It looks like Songbird also uses “tenor” as a designation for certain ocarinas, so STL is not alone.

[@alexyacovelli7192]

Extremely informative to a beginner who's curious about why he couldn't find "Tenors." Any light on how to get Ocarina's in Key of D to go with the majority of my guitar writing? Thanks, Alex Yacovelli NYC

[@DavidErickRamos]

Hey Alex, glad you found the video helpful. For an ocarina in D, anything you write in D major, G major, B minor, and E minor shouldn't be too tough. Apart from that, any other key might need a little more transposing on the ocarina. Feel free to shoot me an email with some details if you're getting stuck with a particular key.

[@ElvenSpellmaker]

Definitely the Asian system everywhere. But we said this to them for years as you know David. =) I'm rather happy to see you say this here as it's a perfect video for your channel as you have such a broad outreach in our community. _Thank you!_

[@appadoopomme4055]

Thanks 😁

[@malachiReformed]

I imagine it's subsumed under the "smaller vendors also have their own classifications" but Songbird also uses Tenor for a number of their ocarinas (and you might also remember their *old* baritone pendant ocarinas . . .man that's still probably my favorite pendant of years past, still sad I dropped/broke it).

[@DavidErickRamos]

Yes, Songbird uses the Asian system, but categorizes anything between Alto C and Bass C as a Tenor. Hind Ocarina actually does the same, but that’s still much different that what STL calls a Tenor.

[@originalstarwalker21]

YOOO THATS MY COMMENT AT 6:54 "GD Drizzy" HOLY CRAP MAN LMAOOOO

[@Tinyflower1]

this explains why my C3 ocarina has AC stamped on the mouth piece :O

[@dan_da5213]

Ah.. so i should just get an Alto C anyway for a start and go on from there. Thx for the vid!

[@ninjaspam2000]

I think it is fine and the standard for singing is satb so it makes sense to classify that way for instruments going into schools.

[@timmy3822]

I definitely thing they should use a more recognised naming system. Why confuse matters when literally nobody else uses it? As you say, it’s confusing for people looking to purchase and play Ocarina for the first time. That goes for myself too as somebody looking to try and learn to play a little.

[@ohio4886]

My theory as to why the tenor label was omitted has less to do with the range of the ocarina but instead the different roles in the ensemble. 1 and 2 covered melodies, 3-5 handled counter melodies and harmonies and then 6 and 7 got the bass roles. In a vocal choir generally sopranos get melodies, altos get counter melodies and harmonies, and then basses get... well bass. So, we have instruments which correspond in function with soprano, alto, and bass voices but no tenor. Fiehn saw that and thought "Well seeing as we don't have an instrument that matches the role of the tenor voice it doesn't make sense to have a tenor label." Now I think if we shift some names around we could still have a tenor ocarina. Why not shift the bass up to "tenor" and contrabass up to "bass"? Now we have an SATB ensemble that allows composers and arrangers to write like they would any other quartet. Another advantage of this is it separates the voice type from the transposition. If they wanted to they could make an entire set of SATB ocarinas all in Bb for example and they would all be displaced by octaves. (the soprano would sound one octave higher than the alto, the bass one octave lower than the tenor, etc.)

[@sameash3153]

There is no one real "voice role". In the baroque period, there was no division of "soprano has melody, alto and tenor have harmonies, bass has bass lines", all four voices had equally important parts. In the Renaissance, the tenor was the most important voice, it would be the first voice to be written in a choral setting, and the other voices would be dancing around the tenor line. In classical period, sopranos get the melody and then the other voices are harmonized up from the bass, though, there's no reason a composer could not also put a melody in alto, tenor, or bass, and switch that around. In more modern choral traditions, it has become fashionable to give the altos the predominant melody, while the sopranos hold out long drone notes, producing an ethereal sound like that of the overtones suspended in the air over a chord on the piano All of this is to say, there are no roles. A soprano doesn't have to have a "soprano melody". SATB are human voice types, and are slightly outdated classifications, as we now prefer broader classifications including baritone, countertenor, contralto, and mezzo soprano. As far as writing SATB quartets go, I usually use four: Soprano F, Alto C, Alto F, Bass C. 3 out of 4 correspond to their expected roles, the only one to be reimagined as the tenor role would be the alto F. When the soprano C is added above the soprano F, I like to refer to this as "descant C", after the hymnal tradition, "above the melody"

[@MrmikeMcnasty]

I actually never had trouble distinguishing tenor was alto c so I never gave a thought the confusion 😅....but I can see where people would be.

[@enesarslan2001]

if i have already a alto c night by noble but want to buy a handmade original austrian ocarina. Which tune like in this system should i buy. I want to play zelda songs and the tapion theme. The night sound a bit to deep for tapions theme but what do u guys mean

[@edi9892]

I didn't notice it on my Ocarina. LOL. I still think that it makes sense as Tenor is part of the original labelling before it was applied to Ocarinas. It just sucks that it causes confusion...

[@mishapurser4439]

Please could you make a follow up video asking 'What's the point of F key ocarinas?'

[@MrmikeMcnasty]

Hey David I just took notice to something oddish...been wanting a pentatonic muse oc from songbird forever now...and noticed that songbird calls there muse tunings tenor....

[@derekplays4547]

Qual ocarina aqui no Brasil você recomenda?

[@hippiechick73]

I wonder if they named the C ocarinas “soprano and tenor” and the f ocarina “alto” to line it up with recorder names?

[@jessedandy7178]

So I only have 2 ocarinas the lightning and the earth by stl. Stl classifies the lightning as an alto F major and the earth as an tenor F major and they have a clear difference in sound. So my question is why do they sound different if they’re basically the same thing, or is the earth considered more of a bass ocarina because it’s bigger? Sorry if this is a dumb question, this is my first instrument and I don’t know much yet.

[@DavidErickRamos]

Most makers would consider the Lighting ocarina as a “Soprano F” or SF, and the Earth ocarina as an “Alto F” or AF. But while they share the same tuning (F), they are in different octaves, which is why they sound different.

[@FreckledZelda]

Hehehe you and me David 😎 SONGBIRD FOR LIFE 🧚🏻‍♀️✨

[@lavagirl6194]

Wait is it u from tt

[@lavagirl6194]

Tiktok

[@FreckledZelda]

@@lavagirl6194 💞💞

[@weareallpotatos6029]

Where should I buy my first ocarina I need help ? 😕

[@vilo159]

Most practical: every maker conforms to one of the two main systems, European or Asian. Ideal: every maker uses Asian system, except redo the system to include Tenor in the naming system, to match the standard systems of other instruments like recorders, saxes, flutes, etc.

[@DavidErickRamos]

Ideally, I think the best naming system would be a combination of the asian system and what other makers have tried to use: C Piccolo G Soprano C Alto G Tenor C Bass G Great Bass C Contrabass Getting the dozens of ocarina makers around the world to accept such a big change would require some major coordination

[@vilo159]

@@DavidErickRamos Exactly my thoughts! The system works and makes sense across all other wind instruments, why not ocarinas? Though there is something to be said about retaining the unique traditions that arose around the ocarina in the Italian system for cultural purposes. I think we should just do both. Everyone adopt the system you just named above, but everyone who cares enough about ocarina history/culture also learns the traditional Italian numbering, and have makers freely use either as long as it’s uniform.

[@dobbyderelf64]

@@DavidErickRamos I disagree that it requires coordination, whatever sells best determines what is most common and other makers would probably adopt the same system to meet potential customer expectations and stay relevant. Might take longer than introducing a norm though.

[@astridposey]

@@DavidErickRamos my question to your system. Is where do the breaks for the other tunings happen? Where does tenor become alto for example? It needs to be fleshed out, but it's certainly better than what most do.

[@emilyschmidt6035]

Of course they existed! I’ve seen them everywhere

[@sovankhadka5826]

another issue is 'how many holes OCA has'. from what i've seen there r 6 n 12. 'any difference in sound or handling for beginner'. i shall go for 6holes simply because i started with FLUTE

[@kingcarthel4961]

Which ocarina would be the best to use if you are a big fan of legend of zelda

[@flowersinchaos8725]

as a beginner: i finally understood 😭👌👌

[@joylox]

I gotta ask though, why did Songbird change the "Strawfire AG" to "Concerto Tenor G"? I got one years ago and they listed it as an alto, but then they did a restock and called it a tenor. I was confused, especially as it says "Stein AG" right on it. But that's what I keep saying at conventions. I use Songbird as my, I guess supplier since I get stuff from them to share at anime/comic cons in my area. So when people ask me to look at what they have, or say that they were looking at buying something, I tried to make an information sheet. I didn't have the European style on there since the only European ocarina I have uses the Asian system (Rotter Zfans said soprano and alto C). If I ever present the event again, maybe I'll try and add a chart to the hand outs. I went over materials they can be made of and fingering types, but not really into ranges or keys because it can be so confusing. For that reason, I've been eyeing a Night SF ocarina for if I decide to get another.

[@DavidErickRamos]

I’ll take partial blame for the Songbird Tenor. Shortly after Songbird started distributing Stein ocarinas, I recall having a conversation with Durian discussing how he should classify the Muse and large OoT models he was making. I agreed with his idea that since they were between Alto and Bass, that it was logical to call them Tenors. And so perhaps he made the connection that since the Stein AF had the same range, that they should also be marketed as Tenors to avoid confusion with what he offered.

[@joylox]

@@DavidErickRamos It does work for that odd range. Speaking of odd ranges, I got distracted on ebay looking at vintage ocarinas, and you don't happen to have a chart for Fiehn ocarinas do you? There are a few cheaper ones that look decent, and I may try to get one, but the names are so weird. They're mostly from 5 to 9 that I've seen for sale currently.

[@DavidErickRamos]

@@joylox I can send it to you, shoot me an email! info[at]daviderickramos.com

[@evandro4860]

I particularly like Gosselink's classification: On his website, there's always the European classification (C/G + number) AND soprano/alto/tenor according to recorder naming, I think. So: C3 = soprano C3 (what is usually called an Alto, I think) G4 = alto G4 C5 = tenor C5 (what is usually called a bass)

[@DavidErickRamos]

I also really like Gosselink's classification methods, but since it conflicts with what many ocarina makers are using, I would just combine it with the asian system, along with elements from a few other makers classifications: * C1 - Piccolo 
C (Gosselink) * G2 - Soprano
 G * C3 - Alto
 C * G4 - Tenor 
G (Songbird/Hind) * C5 - Bass
 C * G6 - Great Bass 
G (Langley) * C7 - Contrabass C

[@evandro4860]

@@DavidErickRamos Yeah definitelly makes sense! But well, you know what they say about new standards... xkcd.com/927/

[@DavidErickRamos]

@@evandro4860 That could not have been more perfect 🤣🤣🤣

[@evandro4860]

@@DavidErickRamos As a very particular side note: the first time I saw an ocarina in my life was when I met him on a pottery market once. One thing I liked about Gosselink's classification is that even though I knew nothing about ocarinas, when I saw "soprano C3", "alto G4", "tenor C5", etc, I knew exactly what to expect. Anyways that random encounter is why I am here today haha :D

[@waterlilytheraptor7537]

So, does this mean my alto F ocarina from STL is actually a soprano F?

[@ZeldaACFan17]

Sorry about being so argumentative in the comments here. It's just that I agree about the confusion but want some things to stay the same and others to change. Both STL and Songbird use Tenor F and G to describe ocarinas tuned to the keys of F and G, pitched in between an Alto C and Bass C, so that makes sense to me. What doesn't is STL calling some of their ocarinas Tenor C (Range of A4 to F6 on 12 hole ocarinas) when they have the same range as a competing brand's Alto C... And STL's Alto F and G ocarinas are actually Sopranos to me because they are higher pitched than an Alto C ocarina.

[@DavidErickRamos]

Lol, it’s ok, the conversation is welcomed! I can understand the Tenor F and G, which is also what Hind Ocarina uses, so there is some agreement there. But in the Asian market, some makers use “Tenor C” in place of Bass C. So the entire “Tenor” classification is confused across the board. To me, it would make sense to just eliminate it all-together, just in an effort to settle on some sort of standard. BUT, if by some possibility, all the American makers got together and said let’s make our own system, I would recommend this: * C Piccolo (used by Gosselink) * G Soprano * C Alto * G Tenor (used by Hind/Songbird) * C Bass * G Great Bass (used by Langley) * C Contrabass

[@ZeldaACFan17]

@@DavidErickRamos what would the world's largest ocarina be called in terms of pitch range (Alto, Tenor, Bass, Soprano, etc)? It's so big that the pitch of the sound is so low that I can't even hear it lol

[@ZeldaACFan17]

There's a video on STL's channel where Tristan Laurens has a challenge to play a song really fast on six out of the seven element ocarinas (forgot the Lightning ocarina, Alto F/Soprano F), and at the end, he gets to play the world's largest ocarina. Here's that video kzbin.info/www/bejne/enm2eJ-th6iNe7M

[@astridposey]

@@ZeldaACFan17 the largest is classified as an Ultrabass

[@SadisticSenpai61]

So basically, the ocarina was initially like playing handbells. Okay. That's easy enough to understand. I can't remember where I got my ocarina - it's a Legend of Zelda model. It doesn't have the key stamped on it, so I'm guessing it's probably some cheap knock-off and probably not tuned very well. I should probably look at getting a much better ocarina at some point.

[@joshuaiungerich9051]

I have the exact same ocarina 😳

[@douglaslester6812]

I don't know what importance it has but I have a "tenor" ocarina tuned to the key of A.

[@DavidErickRamos]

Who was the maker? Some makers do use “tenor” as a classification, but the actual range depends on who made it.

[@Goosaphone]

based intro. Based take

[@akrobatinxd5702]

So Tenor is the same as Alto c?

[@serinaromero3017]

i’m trying to figure out the same

[@vhfgamer]

Just to make this perfectly clear.... I didn't do business with STL when I was first searching for an ocarina, because of this confusing naming system they created. I wanted to start out with one of the most basic ocarinas, which is the 12 hole alto C. I knew exactly what this was, I knew I wanted it, and it had to be a 12 hole alto C. When I eventually wound up on the STL site, and I didn't find a 12 hole alto C, I clicked away and never returned. Of course I understand it now, but for beginner me this was a HUGE turnoff. I wound up paying Spencer a visit. I'm sure he appreciates it.

[@mikeexits]

But to be fair, is it not weird that the Tenor name was omitted from the tonal ranges in the first place? I find it weird. I mean, why have all incremental ranges between Contrabass to Soprano but no Tenor, which as we all know is between Bass and Alto in musical lingo? I find it more odd to omit Tenor than to just have it to fill out the seemingly empty space between Alto and Bass, but that's just me. Unless I find reason to convince myself otherwise I'm just gonna keep calling it Tenor but also mention to anyone not privy to Ocarina history that it's not a historically accurate label.

[@derekfrost8991]

Also the sheet music is written an octave lower. If it really started from A3 it would be a tenor.. 😜

[@astridposey]

That's a bass oc

[@justinlong5892]

OK, so I'm looking for a bass ocarina then.

[@ghqebvful]

I'm on STL's side on this one. Other instruments and voices use tenor as a range so it should be in the ocarina as well. You're saying including it is going against standard, but I'm pretty sure not including it is going against standard. Then again I only have very little knowledge on music, so grain of salt

[@abcbabb]

I‘m from Germany and I really wanted to have an very good ocarina, not an ocarina ,which doesn‘t sound good. So I decised to buy an STL ocarina. But I can‘t buy it over there website because it is in America and I had to buy it about a another company which is either not in my country. After I waited a long time, it finally arrived. And ist was completely broken. Then I waited for a new one, but it took so long and I got my money back. Are there any other good ocarinas, which you can get simple and are not to expensive (maybe about amazon...) ?

[@DavidErickRamos]

Fortunately, Germans have access to some of the best ocarinas in the world by Hans Rotter! Sadly, he is retiring, so whatever he has left is being sold through thomannmusic: www.thomannmusic.com/ocarinas.html?feature-13451-first=10&feature-13451-last=12&filter=true&ls=25&manufacturer%5B0%5D=Thomann&manufacturer%5B1%5D=ocarinamusic&oa=prd&price-first=0

[@jasongreenhalgh7727]

Well in actuality Tenor ocarinas do exist. I would agree that showing a picture of an alto and calling it a tenor is a bit misleading but I grew up in a singing background and on most choir and church music has the satb format. Recorders use the same set up satb and it works. I think for their system to work they would need to revoice the line of ocarinas to make this statement of having a tenor ocarina correct which could happen but not likely. I tend to collect from one manufacturer for my recordings because most manufacturers keep their lines consistent and I feel that STL does that. It's not to say I don't have other ocarinas in my collection but for me keeps things consistent for me and every maker is different. I think diversity is good in the insturment market if everyone was the same there would be no evolution in insturments or music

[@astridposey]

But that's the point. For example, you have tenor g recorders and tenor d recorders.....but with ocarinas, in standard nomenclature, it's SAB. Which is a type of vocal scoring that, while uncommon, is still very pleasant.

[@Nashenas88]

So what in the world is my Songbird Tenor in F supposed to be (OoT replica deeper than my Alto C's but not as deep as a bass C)?

[@DavidErickRamos]

In the Asian system, it would be considered an Alto F.

[@Nashenas88]

@@DavidErickRamos are F Ocarinas just not common in the Asian style?

[@DavidErickRamos]

@@Nashenas88 On the contrary, F ocarinas are very popular in the Asian system, perhaps even more popular than G ocarinas! But you have to remember that for the most part, they are copying the names used by the Fiehn system, which is why all ocarinas between D5-D4 would be considered an Alto.

[@Nashenas88]

@@DavidErickRamos thanks!

[@LoZander]

But isn't tenor a specific range of tones, and so if an ocarina is mainly in that range, is it not a tenor ocarina?

[@DavidErickRamos]

It depends on the standard classification system used for that instrument family, like the Tenor Saxophone and Tenor Recorder. But the designation is usually added mainly to show the comparison within a family of instruments and not all instruments families include Tenor, ocarina included.

[@hughmann9568]

So this is semantics? I figured as much. Don't know why I expected anything else.

[@devbridev9373]

I’m confused - I’ve been shopping more ocarinas lately after getting one from STL and I noticed Songbird has Tenor ocarinas too…was that a recent addition to their store or…? I’m so confused why everyone is disrespectful to STL Oc when songbird is doing the same thing . Input from anyone? *hoping someone sees this even though this video is older* 😶 *edit to say I just finished the video and saw mention about them getting ocarinas in schools and if that’s the case doesn’t it make more sense to use SATB format anyway since that’s how the band/orchestra/choir programs are already set up, at least in the west?

[@DavidErickRamos]

While Songbird does use the term “Tenor”, they do not use it to replace the Alto C. They instead use it when referencing anything between the Alto C and Bass C, which I believe does less harm since ocarinas in that range are not as popular for beginners.

[@stephenbraker5273]

I've thought about this since I started making ocarinas in 2011. I have changed range labels a couple times on my ocarinas to try to make sense out of this issue, and it seems to me that the best method overall would be to adopt a system based on Scientific (or Standard) Pitch Notation (SPN). Isn't this the standard in most of the musical world for other instruments? The electronic tuners I have all show this notation which gives complete immediate distinction with no confusion on the typical scale (microtones might complicate things, but it is not common enough to be a significant issue). If all ocarinas were labeled in SPN, it would be simple. For example, "Alto C" would just be "C5", "Soprano G" would be "G5", "Bass C" would be "C4", "Soprano C" would be "C6", etc. based on the lowest note on the primary scale of the ocarina. Listing total range would also be helpful in description (as mentioned by Ocarinist Drew), with a 12-hole "Alto C" having a typical range from A4-F6. This is the most complete information possible, as far as I have considered. The only confusion I see being caused by this system is that it deviates from the currently accepted standard and would require a shift in long-established traditions. Getting existing companies to switch to a standard would be very difficult (if even possible), and it would need to be world-wide to have a true standard in today's globally-connected system. I understand why the current systems were developed, but I think the logic of those systems is not as complete as SPN. I have never liked the "SATB" designation for ocarinas, since the ranges are not used the same as in vocal music, where "SATB" is most common. In vocal music, sopranos and altos are rarely a full octave apart. The same is true between alto and tenor or tenor and bass. The only way it seems to work for ocarinas is if it is based on the original septet, but most people today do not play in a septet, so it is less relevant. This European system based on the septet is the system that makes the most sense of the current common methods, but it is still less complete than SPN designations (confusion is caused with F and G ocarinas, as they would both fill the same septet slot within the same octave but are different tunings). Are there any good arguments against the logic of an SPN system? I would like to consider them, if so.

[@DavidErickRamos]

While the SPN logic makes sense, the ocarina has a rich history and tradition that I believe deserves respect and recognition. The makers that have been using the European system have been doing so for decades. It's a part of their culture. And SPN would directly conflict with the European system, only adding more confusion.

[@stephenbraker5273]

@@DavidErickRamos I guess it comes back to the same reason that the USA is still using the English system for standard measurements rather than the metric system - the system is much less logical than the metric system, but we've always used it and that makes it too hard to change, both in mind/history/heritage and in application/legacy on existing items or making the transition. Maybe there are other ways that the history and legacy can still be appreciated without causing confusion? ...I am also fine with the current systems and understand the history/legacy consideration, so I am not going to be the vanguard of a forced standardization, just speculating on a better system with less confusion. I am still torn on what I would use as a maker (if I ever have time to truly pursue this interest toward hobby business). I most recently have been using the European system, since it makes more sense and distinction than the Asian system, but there are gaps that are not covered. What designation should a D5 SPN ocarina have in the European system? D3? D4? I also understand how a switch to SPN would be confusing in this regard, since the designations use the same characters: (letter)(number). I am still leaning toward SPN, making it clear that is what I am using, and still noting the full range in SPN. That seems to be the best method with all mentioned considerations: each maker/seller has a standard (whether it follows an existing standard [hopefully so] or not, at least it is consistent with itself) and also clearly notes the range in SPN. I have not studied music in an official venue, but I am under the impression that common music shared worldwide is still typically based on SPN for communication.

[@linkedsky76]

Bruh I was so confused so I just got a night by noble from Amazon lol

[@armenvondoms1815]

I'm still a little confused. STL has a "tenor" in their elemental series with the pitch range from D4 to B-flat5. Isn't this the tenor range? Charlie Hind sells a tenor as well.

[@DavidErickRamos]

In the Asian system, that is considered an Alto F (AF).

[@armenvondoms1815]

@@DavidErickRamos I learn new stuff from your videos each time! Thanks! In reality I just want all shapes, sizes, and styles of any ocarinas!😂

[@DavidErickRamos]

@@armenvondoms1815 I’m happy you find the videos helpful! And good luck building your collection. I finally sat down during quarantine and catalogued most of my collection to discover I now have over 300 ocarinas. It only took 14+ years, lol.

[@armenvondoms1815]

@@DavidErickRamos Wow!! I saw your old video with well over 100 and was stunned. I only have 10 ocarinas and 2 xuns. I ordered a Charlie Hind Bass in C but it hasn't arrived. The anticipation is treacherous!

[@ZeldaACFan17]

@@DavidErickRamos I think the tenor naming actually fits well with F and G ocarinas in between bass and alto C regardless of the people that make them

[@wack8589]

👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿

[@535Salomon]

Not a lot of people realize why the naming system is extremely important. For example, a composer might want to write for the Ocarina and he/she finds a lot of issues with the specific music range an ocarina offers based on their name. I was thinking about naming the ocarinas in this way since it is the one used for the Recorder and here I come! SG: Sopranino in G AG: Alto G/Alto in G BG: Bass G/Bass in G SF: Sopranino in F AF: Alto F/Alto in F BF: Bass F/Bass in F/Basset SD: Sopranino in D AD: Soprano D/Soprano in D BD: Voice Ocarina/Tenor ocarina in D SC: Sopranino in C AC: Soprano C/Soprano in C BC: Tenor Ocarina/Tenor in C SBb: Sopranino in Bb ABb: Soprano Bb/Soprano in Bb BBb: Tenor Bb/Tenor in Bb

[@igorabdoaguilar9331]

In the system you propose, when using "B" as the first letter, why do you call it Tenor for the C and Bb ocarinas?