Doctor Who - The Parting of the Ways - Coward or Killer?

[@bishopcat5491]

Christopher Eccleston really did take the goofiest looking show and make it a genuinely fantastic experience. What a legend

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

The soundtrack though, so good!

[@darudesandstrom1067]

@@ABonafideSkeleton agreed, Murray gold was so important in doctor who’s revival

[@Silverwind87]

"Do you mind not farting while I'm saving the world?"

[@nuckelaveez5029]

He was fantastic

[@JessCaron]

"Maybe it's time" would be really good last words for the Doctor.

[@iKillerZombie]

0:46 True story, when I first watched this episode as a little kid, I thought the reason the doctor didn't use the detonator was because it wouldn't move down and was stuck and that's why the doctor gave up

[@billybarnell1996]

HaHA! Brilliant... :)

[@Jicholson]

"Mankind will be harvested because of your weakness"

[@anesseameer]

Josh Nicholson if i was the doctor i would be a coward its true i could never do it

[@66LordLoss66]

AwesomeAlex500 Great. I'll never watch this scene without thinking about that now. Thanks a lot. Seriously, though, that was hilarious.

[@therockstar9259]

AwesomeAlex500 so did I

[@caitlynnboles118]

"Coward...anyday..." God, that just. My heart. Gotta love nine, I mean really. Nine is the best doctor. He wasnt willing to take out an entire species just to finally rid of the daleks. He truly is, The Doctor.

[@SirMarshalHaig]

One season and he has so many of the best moments in it.

[@jumpcutfilms1958]

He couldn't bring himself to do it again, not after the Time War

[@kingbeauregard]

Can we give Eccleston credit for setting the DW revival on the right track? Throughout his run, Eccleston hit every note that the Doctor needs to, and hit them all exactly right. He gave us the complex, nuanced Doctor that all his successors have been able to build on. If Eccleston hadn't been so versatile - say, if you couldn't buy his compassion - a successor perhaps could have shored that up, but thanks to Eccleston's performance, there was never any need. I've loved all the revival Doctors, but Eccleston holds a special distinction for paving the way for the rest.

[@mr.bowtie2252]

This is the most powerful line 9 has ever spoken.

[@AssassinIsAfk]

He knew it was his last time playing the doctor, so when he was leaving he must of been so happy especially since there was some behind the scenes drama that happened

[@vullord666]

That moment you realize the Doctor has killed more than any of his enemies. The greatest irony of his life. Even having not genocided his own people, he has taken so many lives. He definitely came out of the war as the single individual with the most blood on their hands. The counter in extremis says so much. He has saved so many planets, people, civilizations, and the universe time and time again. But at the end of the day, he has so much more blood on his hands than any of his enemies. He’s wiped out the entire Dalek race on numerous occasions, killed so many cybermen, caused the death of innocents, and had killed thousands at times. He’s not adverse to genocide. Not to mention all the individuals that killed in his name (usually in a sacrificial way to save him), or worse all those that died in his name. I think 9 just wanted to prove he could be better right after the time war.

[@FreakyTeeth]

The doctor is better because if he didn't do those things... would the universe probably be better? Obviously not. He may not want to play god. But if he doesn't people like the Daleks, the cybermen and other such people would. And he, idiotic as sometimes is, is obviously by far the better choice.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

The Doctor is better BECAUSE he killed his people and the Daleks. Get your head out of Stevie boy wonder's retcon dream land.

[@Astlay]

This is what makes the 9th Doctor who he is. This scene defines it all. And yeah, it's technically the same person every time, but I can't think of another incarnation that would make this choice (except maybe for 8th). This is why I'll always love Doctor Who, but 9th is My Doctor.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Really? I can’t think of an incarnation that wouldn’t make this choice except maybe the war doctor.

[@Astlay]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 So, this answer will probably be long, sorry... [edit: definitely long. Kind of a novel almost. Very rambly. Sorry... There's a "TL,DR" at the end that is still too long. Btw, this entire answer is from someone who hasn't rewatched the series, be it Classic or New, in quite a while, and is only trying to explain impressions feelings... Sorry again for the book report here =D] Anyway, personally I have a hard time considering the Classic doctors here, because none of their personas were affected by the Time War, of course. The closest to 9th would be 8th, but he chose to become the War Doctor in order to face the war. The doctors after 9th are way more self-assured, and hold themselves in a higher regard - this is the incarnation that deals with the heavy brunt of the trauma. After 9th, the other new doctors tend to offer choices, and look for alternative paths, but ultimately look for the "greater good" option. Though 10th is the more evident (his ending is as the "lonely god"), 11th, 12th and 13th mostly do the same, even if taking different paths, and their endings (ignoring Jodie here) reflect a lot of it. All through his time, 9th avoids ultimatums, but when they arrive never takes the extreme path he threatens, though there's a lot of self-deprecation in this whole process. The end is serene, though: he goes to the extreme, but instead of begrudgingly submitting, he actually chooses "coward". No tears, no screaming, just accepting the loss and the end. He saw himself as a killer until the question was actually posed, but here he finally gets it. In the very end, he closes his eyes and accepts his choice peacefully - maybe the first time we see 9th actually in peace. So, TL,DR: what I find very unique is his actively choosing "coward", and doing so in a peaceful way, when it comes down to only the two. I don't think all other incarnations would choose destroying the Earth (though I'm reasonably sure quite a few, near the end of their arcs, would, especially in New Who), but also don't think there'd be this sense of acceptance and peace. I see clever plans over other plans, speeches, bargains, to the last second. 9th does this for a bit, but after Rose is gone it's a quick jump trough denial and anger and to certainty. That's what I think is so particular about him in this scene.

[@GreaterGrievobeast55]

Sabrina M. M. Hmmm Wow now I can see what you mean! Espeically given the never cruel or cowardly modo the doctors after 9 pledge too that there’d be a lack of grace to the choice even it is was a similar one. Which actually kind of narrows the numbers quite a bit! Still....maybe five? *maaaaybe*

[@koalafromtomorrow5656]

The first and Third might not

[@alecbormia4523]

@@GreaterGrievobeast55 I completely agree. In fact in the 50th anniversary special they almost explicitly state that the war doctor was not worthy to bear the name of The Doctor because of the choice that he made in blowing up Gallifrey. So by that logic that means that every other doctor would always not press the lever and be the coward over the killer. Of course how they react and act in this situation would vary between incarnation but as long as he/she is the doctor, they would not press that lever.

[@liamgradwell2998]

This is truly what the Doctor is: not a killer. He didn't destroy his own kind and he wouldn't sacrifice an entire species to destroy the Daleks. His compassion and mercy is what makes him the Doctor.

[@AndereundIch]

Actualy, he would have destroyed his Gallifrey. If the Moment wouldnt have created and compansated the Paradox.

[@deltaproductions113]

Well dod was bullshit and tbh should be retconned but I agree with what your saying for the most part

[@lordlossize]

in this point in time he did kill the time lords, the fact that moffat and his crew of crap writing staff decided to retcon the most important factor of the doctor to make him as pure as jesus just shows he has no writing talent.

[@TheWeepingDalek]

they didn't retcon anything. the doctor never destroyed Gallifrey in the first place. he just thought he did.

[@piplup2009]

maybe it did happen then dotd came and fixed it

[@grenadesblows719]

“I want to see you become like me” some of the coldest words a villian can say to a hero imo

[@msredfox]

God.. i honestly LOVE the emperor's voice in this rendition, he sounds so grandiose and godly, it's perfect

[@DiddyKongsLeftFoot]

yes but the way he looks like that threw me off

[@Gamelover254]

If this were in the series now, you would have constant flashbacks to the War Doctor telling him not to push the button. Funny thing though, in both those scenarios, Rose (Bad Wolf) is the one to stop him.

[@Silverwind87]

"Latimer, you filthy coward!" "Oh yes, sir. Every time."

[@JamesieHodge]

0:24 Dat Booming Voice tho! It's so chilling! 0_0

[@henrypeters5291]

I love this scene. It has got to be one of the best during Christopher Eccleston's run

[@ANP4158]

“I want to see you become like me” What the hell....

[@dep7229]

That music when he says "maybe it's time..." I can't find it and I REALLY want it!!!

[@VerdanaVideos]

me too

[@VerdanaVideos]

i just found something kinda close kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXLXpnqYr5eKapo

[@OTMM22]

Glad to see that 15 years after being broadcast, it is still relevant to some degree.

[@joshbessey9647]

OliverTheMagicMaker it's more relevant than ever the whole series 1 finale is

[@OTMM22]

@@joshbessey9647 watching Doctor Who back then was just.... absolutely nothing could top it!

[@TheSchemer1]

0:32 at first I thought the Emperor Dalek said "Hello the Doctor" not 'hail'.

[@hydra_lisk]

I honestly prefer if he said that, it sounds way more ominous to me.

[@intrestedinallthings]

This is even worse for him because of what he just did in the Time War

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

The track for this sequence is so good. The woodwinds(?) and piano that fades in as the Doctor realises he can’t wipe out humanity to kill the Daleks, then the synth builds and overshadows the other instruments, then _drops_ as he accepts his fate... ...Only for Rose’s theme to fade in as the TARDIS materialises. Superb.

[@yuuuhjxuuuhj3790]

do you know the track that plays in this scene? ive been trying to look for it

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

@yuuuhjxuuuhj3790 To my knowledge, it unfortunately never got released.

[@Spenglenoodle]

I think this is it, this is the moment he lets go of his shameful past and the guilt, he knows he's changed for the better truly. Accompanied with the unique music that has the almost classic yet timeless feel, the religious dialogue and him coming to terms with 'his time'. In awe of the gravitas of this scene and Chris made it work so damn well, such an amazing character arc reaching its conclusion.

[@fern5505]

This is so much more powerful after seeing the 50th anniversary special

[@mayotango1317]

No more after Spyfall.

[@TellyArchive]

Not really as The Day of the Doctor retconed The Time War so The Doctor forgets that he didn’t wipe out The Time Lords and The Daleks, also what’s Spyfall got to do with any of this lol aha 🤷🏻‍♂️😂🤔

[@EnDoubleJay3309]

"Do I have the right?"

[@Silverwind87]

_This_ is who the Doctor is. The one who would rather surrender than take a life.

[@CyberController-]

This is what makes The Doctor my favourite character. While other shows would say that being a coward is wrong, The Doctor proudly states that he'd rather be a coward than a murderer.

[@thehaymaker3660]

I love the music in this scene. So worldly and powerful, yet kind of peaceful and cathartic.

[@mayotango1317]

They always say that the second killing is easier, if the Doctor had actually finished with the Daleks and the Time Lords, he have had no problems to finish these Daleks. So "The Day of the Doctor" makes sense to me.

[@victorpeterson3502]

Never cruel, never *cowardly*

[@triplekillerable]

It's a lie, what the Family of Blood and this

[@HienTran-ch7or]

Different kind of coward.

[@landfish7a]

What the Daleks refer to as Cowardice is actually Mercy, a concept most Daleks can't understand.

[@Silverwind87]

True courage is about knowing not when to take a life, but when to spare one.

[@theeverchosen1504]

The way the Emperor says "I am immortal" without hesitation

[@madnightguard6296]

Depending on which interpretations from different media you want to accept, this Emperor Dalek has been through a lot.

[@shrewman]

What an underrated scene.The organ at the mention of angels is superb

[@xxdudeyydude5106]

In "The Fires of Pompeii" he chose the other option. The Doctor killed 20,000 people.

[@gelatothegreat4906]

Right after saving them. "I don't do what I do because it works, because it hardly ever does"

[@xxdudeyydude5106]

@@gelatothegreat4906 Well its more like he really had no choice.

[@EternalPayne]

Yeah but Pompeii would have happened anyway and it's not like he could choose the other option.

[@landfish7a]

The most important lesson of The Fires of Pompeii was that the Doctor saves people. He will never be able to save everyone, but he can always save someone.

[@FormulaTurismo]

@@landfish7a I think you mean. "He will nver be able to save Everyone, but he can always save someone."

[@cashwalk7253]

This is why Eccleston is my favorite and always will be ❤

[@ShatteredDreams90]

0:39 "Then prove yourself Doctor, what are you a coward or Killer?"

[@GiratinaofFury]

Interesting notion - the Dalek Emperor asks if the Doctor is coward or killer, but doesn't clarify whether activating the signal makes him the latter. In stepping aside, he lets billions die, and may as well be an accessory to their murder, but in triggering the Delta Wave, he takes the easy way out, the coward's way out, most likely dying in the process. Except he never has to make that choice, it's already been made for him, and it's neither option - Rose makes the choice for him, and it's to be a Doctor. Perhaps this is a metaphor for what would come about in the 50th Anniversary - the Doctor does the right thing, and he was never aware he made that decision. Sending Rose home with the TARDIS was the right thing to do, to save at least someone from the impending massacre, not seeking reward or affirmation, but the universe offered its gratitude nonetheless. The Doctor does the right thing in not using the Moment to destroy his people and the Daleks, and it too offers him gratitude by showing him his future selves, including one who had come up with a new solution, one who will help them save everyone, all whilst being unaware that they did the right thing due to their memories being erased upon all going their separate ways.

[@machineguncrally7020]

I don’t think there was ever a villain in Modern Who who really fucked with the Doctor like The Emperor Dalek did, sure he had equals and huge stakes with the likes of Davros and The Master but The Emperor really taunted him its like what the Joker is to Batman

[@tomimpala]

If this was Jodie, she would have pressed it before the first dalek walked into the room, but only after she'd let rose do the honours and she was safe in the tardis.

[@darlig.ulv.bakhjerne]

reading nonsense like this proves to me that people who hate jodie's doctor simply choose to hate, regardless of whether or not it makes sense to do so. they are, ironically enough, manifesting the antithesis of everything Doctor Who stands for

[@alecbormia4523]

@@darlig.ulv.bakhjerne that is literally almost exactly what Jodie does though in the season 12 finale.

[@voladisco]

​@@darlig.ulv.bakhjernedr who is not an unequivocal good in the world lol, just recently all those teenagers so invested in thasmin had their fanfics cynically canonised and absorbed by the main show and then dumped so nonchalantly cruelly in POTD.

[@jumpcutfilms1958]

"You would make a good Dalek."

[@alexcooke4856]

This and the series 10 finale are just such great stories, the Doctor is so thoroughly defeated in both and is only saved by a deus ex machina (prefer this one to Heather the Waterbender). The thing about having a the regeneration be in the finale is that you have two whole episodes to set up the plot and the stakes and make it as deep as you want, it's great. This is definitely my favourite regeneration story (probably would be World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls but Twice Upon a Time ruins it by just postponing it)

[@Zug8415]

Twice upon a time is fantastic imo, a great epilogue

[@alexcooke4856]

@@Zug8415 That's fair, I do really like it's message and the sentiment behind it

[@cheese3277]

thirteen belike I'm both detonates death particle and run away

[@gtaipan7422]

RIP Doctor, Long Live the Emperor and the Daleks

[@captaincrumpet5558]

Eccleston was amazing

[@cleanerben9636]

I don't think any series used silence in the finale like this. This truly was really good.

[@boredgamer7841]

Wasn't a part of the promise on the name of "The Doctor"; "never cruel or cowardly"?

[@gelatothegreat4906]

Always try to be nice, and never fail to be kind

[@boredgamer7841]

@@gelatothegreat4906 well that too

[@KicktheSky34]

Just watched this episode for the first time in a long time and I have a take I haven't heard anyone else make before: I don't think the delta wave would've worked anyway. The Doctor gerryrigged that thing using the Dalek's own station tech and both he and Jack acknowledged that the Daleks would be aware of what they were trying to do. Add to that the Emperor goading The Doctor into doing it, rather than trying to stop him from wiping out the fleet he just spent centuries rebuilding, and I think the Emperor had countermeasures to nullify it. He just wanted to break The Doctor before killing him. The Doctor staying true to himself robbed the Emperor of that satisfaction. He'd already lost, but he won the moral victory.

[@jeremiah7407]

Is the Doctor on floor 500!? I see the number 500 on one of the elevator shafts

[@xxdudeyydude5106]

Yes.

[@wanderingshadow1372]

And then Moffat made this character arc entirely pointless by having the Eleventh Doctor blow up an entire fleet of Cybermen (emotionless, but still very much living things) just to get his mother-in-law back. This is why the RTD Era is and always will be the best.

[@lornithogeek7049]

It's not the same proportion, there is a difference between exterminating a cybermen ship and an entire solar system with including innocent people.... And even RTD do the same things in the season 2 final to send the dalek and cybermen in the void

[@darlig.ulv.bakhjerne]

The Doctor has never had qualms about destroying Daleks, Cybermen or Sontarans - the three most hateful, jingoistic and corruptive forces in the universe - the reason why the Doctor chooses not to destroy the Daleks here is because it would also wipe out humanity. He refuses to wipe out innocents, even if it means destroying the Daleks. Had Earth not been a factor, make no mistake the Doctor would have wiped out the Daleks - it's the right thing to do. The Second and Seventh Doctors had already wiped out millions of Daleks without remorse - but in those instances, there were no innocents in the firing line. The Doctor would never threaten innocent lives for the greater good, no matter the cost.

[@alecbormia4523]

And that is shown as wrong. That’s 11’s time lord victorious episode.

[@smtandearthboundsuck8400]

You know he was only conflicted here because this would kill humans too?

[@thelegend3965]

He can’t do it again. He destroyed his own people to defeat the Daleks, he hasn’t got it in him to do it again.

[@PrincessX-ke8tj]

I'm here after the timeless child. Forget that. She is not the Doctor. Just an impersonation. This. This is the Doctor.

[@kreftmaker]

9 was so good

[@CeticWales]

I am 995 sure that was not the original music

[@JMCStudios24]

Whats the music where the doctor releases the handle ? i know its the doctors theme but its a different variation

[@theeverchosen1504]

Hail the Doctor! The great Exterminator!

[@dannyboi5887]

This is pretty much the closest the Daleks have ever come to 100% killing the Doctor for good. Literally the only thing that stops them is Rose's Bad Wolf shenanigans at the very last second.

[@Rougarou99]

The Doctor was not harvested because the Emperor Dalek feared it would create the Hybrid from Series 9.

[@dr.feelgoodmalusphillips2475]

No daft theories please.

[@NitPickz]

What would anyone else do?

[@crazyvillainfan4877]

Lemme ask you this: would i have gone through everything the Doctor did? Or would this just be an outsider making the choice

[@rodrigocoockiemonster4460]

Had he not gloated then perhaphs they had triumphed for once

[@gerrardjones28]

Quote to live by!

[@scottybee8]

and what about me am I becoming one of your angels

[@sabotabo7476]

let's be honest-- if he really did die at the end of this scene, it would've been one hell of an ending for the doctor.

[@Dim4323]

Social commentary

[@in2da205]

Coward confirmed

[@hued2542]

People always forget this whole series and finale was the culmination of 15 years of rabid fans talking and amounting fresh ideas, it’s honestly really sad for such a supposed reboot we have zero fresh writers or directors. No new composer who grows up with the show. It’s a just a tired property getting dragged in the mud by writers who won’t give this show up

[@unclekarl5219]

No ones forcing you to watch it

[@unrestdigest]

Sassy empower dalke

[@madgreedygraypwoffesoarcha7669]

That was weird.

[@nzrockboi]

I have no problem with the Doctor genociding the Daleks. It never works anyway

[@Cyrusjr.]

+Hoani Kepa Seems like you didn't pay attention. If he ever was to trigger the wave, not just the Daleks would've been massacred, but also the Earth. He would never risked destroying his favorite pet species for killing Daleks, the loss wouldn't be worth in the tiniest way.

[@AndereundIch]

the loss would be worth it. Totaly. Option 1. : Killing all Daleks who are left and killing all humans on earth (in this century humans live on other planets as well) Option 2.: The Daleks Invade the earth. The Daleks are transforming many humans into Daleks. And start to rage across the universe again It doesn't take a Sontaren to see what the better millitary choise is.

[@AndereundIch]

+Cyrus jr. it is compassion to kill them. Die as a human or live as a Dalek Dieing Form the Delta wave would be fast and it would be kind enougth to kill everyone Or you will live as a dalek, first you are getting invaded by them, than they make you Like them and you will slaughter millions. That is something that most people wouldnt want. and no.. thanks to the interferens oft the jagrafez and the daleks, this is not the beutifull human empire that it should be

[@MegaTonytheboss]

Me: Coward, any day Chibnall: Then Doctor Who will be SJW'd because of your weakness Me: Am I to become one of your angels? Chibnall: You are the heathen your TV Show shall be exterminated Me: Maybe it's time...

[@Alex-tn3tq]

The Observer i hope you give Jodie's doctor a chance because I'm sick of people saying that because the doctor is a woman then the show will be bad. Also sick of the SJW bullshit, Chibnail is a professional and he knows better than you, me or anyone else what actor or actress is right for the role of the doctor for the stories he's planning on writing. If your not willing to watch because of these things then it just shows you were never loyal to doctor who to begin with.

[@s.31.l50]

Hahaha nice one

[@szabm3179]

Even Mark Gatis would be a better choise for show runner

[@SomerSaultGuy]

You watch Doctor Who and complain about SJWs. What a fucking mental disconnect. It’s like you’ve never listened to a word the show has said. I’m legitimately so sorry for you that you are so upset about the gender of an actor playing the Doctor.

[@junker-f3m]

Dumbasses: Doctor Who is SJW trash now!!! Me, an actual SJW: tbh, the actual themes and ideas in the episodes are less progressive than they were last season, it's hardly SJW Dumbasses: BUT A WOMANZ IS THE DOCTOR Me: true, but the actual themes aren't- DUMBASSES: *A WOM IS THE DOCTOR AND CHIBNALL HATES MEN!*