Does FGO Make Bad Servants Intentionally

[@raulparrado1547]

Sigurd is literally "the boss when you unlock him as a playable character" meme incarnated, he forced me to level two more archers just to defeat him in the Napoleon forced support quest xd

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@raulparrado1547 Just asking, which 2 archers did you level up to use against him? I just went with euryale.

[@ThermalVoid]

​@@JohnnyJustice777 Robin Hood & David. =^)

[@MArkusHuerles]

Baobhan Sith was my MVP in that fight, the team just survived long enough for Napoleon to be the last one standing and finished the last HP bar.

[@minisnakali]

I remember that fight, I bought two Jalters and painstakingly murdered him

[@vartner8051]

@@raulparrado1547 he a saber and is a male, well now, make that euryale work bro hahaha

[@PlushieMistress]

Interesting topic tbh, id def say for 4 stars they do make filler but for 5 stars very often its a failed balancing choice. Take shingen for example, he is a buster looper with all 5 turn CD skills, allowing him to be flexible in buster looping, he is the first rider with a triple B deck and his NP infinitely np seals if you spam it enough. On paper he isn’t really mid and in practice isn’t that bad either, but what he does well ended up not being good enough for what people are looking for so now what he is lacking makes him look weak. Another great example is kashin koji, spammable aoe stun is super broken on paper but bc of how unreliable it is, people dislike it, and they put all the eggs in one basket by tying her anti trait to her stun as well so she just looks super weak whenever her stun misses.

[@PlushieMistress]

Bad is also difficult to define, as someone who min turns and is in touch with that community sigurd is considered one of the strong units bc he can push damage other units struggle to reach against dragons, units being “good” or “bad” defined by the majority of the community doesn’t actually reflect to all players.

[@alispeed5095]

I think its intentional for for 5stars. The reason is because its also intentional that some 5stars are made good. Consider, why does one 5star get a 3turn star adsorb, 3turn 50%crit dmg up, whilst another gets no star absorb + a 3time 3 turn 50% crit dmg buff? In this case, there are no gimmicks here, its just a basic crit skill yet its applied differently for no reason except "we chose to"

[@romanprzysiezny8569]

​@@PlushieMistressI think release time is the problem . Roland was stated in a interview to be made in second year of development. They couldn't figurę when they put put him.

[@absi49]

@@PlushieMistress well theres always the oposite too, people that cant differ whats good or bad and are blinded by their bias pushing convenient exemples and hiding the ones that are not convenient for their argument on why thats "good" or "bad". To the point thsi discussion isnt even about fgo anymore, its about human behaviour and mentality.

[@FLAMEBERGE-LCB]

​@@PlushieMistressShingen has all of his skills on a 6 turn CD though?

[@vartner8051]

Sigurd was just pure injustice. Literally the Norse Arthur. Giving a buff on his buster mod but unlike a certain permanent blondie saber. His 3rd skill is more often than not better used on someone else. His 1st skill is like a stupid strong crit mod but surprise2 he doesn't even have a star gather mod or even at least a small power buff, or the all time favorite lasegle favorite power buff for all servants. The damn battery.

[@vartner8051]

It was a real shame for Arthur. Why? He has the super powered mod against super giants right? Well the 4 star Beowulf also has the anti Giant mod which is arguably better than against super giants because super giants are still giants but the reverse isn't true, to make it worse Beowulf also has anti dragon too and a crit damage mod. ALL IN 3 TURNS.

[@kakuserankua]

Just to add regarding Giant vs Super Giant/Super Large: Giant indeed has a bigger servant pool (5 more), but Super Giant has a way bigger non-servant enemy pool to compensate, and most of those enemies are main story/event bosses. Meanwhile there aren't many non-servant bosses that are Giant. Putting aside which servant is better between the two (I'd say Beowulf is better, yes), Super Giant is a better anti-trait to have.

[@hcbnb]

​​@@RealLifeIronManyou are straight up incorrect not all giants are super large(you call it super giant) and vice versa

[@vartner8051]

@@hcbnb yep, all super giants are still giants, hence Beowulf buff everytime meanwhile super giants is never counted as giant. You don't have to believe me, you search it up or better yet try comparing Beowulf and Arthur skill mod in game.

[@Niccogamer01]

The paradox of one and another. It's like Nobunaga Avenger biggest issue as she has anti-Heaven train power mod and Anti divinity. Not all Heaven atribute have divinity but all divinity has heaven (or earth) atribute wich sucks, similar to Enkidu who has Heaven trait but doesn't has divinity or Leonidas who has divinity but not heaven trait. If they made him just Anti giants for 3T with an extra against demonic or Evil like Charlemagne then he would be once again one of the greatest servants as he should have been but it sucks they made such stupid ammount of different aligments, traits and all of that when most of them just have an Overall superiority against some. Novunaga had overall upper hand against all mystics, divine, demonic, fairy tales and the same, Heracles had anti wild beast (for his 12 worthies), Aanrthur should have an amazing anti Evil and Treats to humanity super dmg multiplier and Drake anti-Rulers super dmg as she can always force her way through most battles thanks to her legends and Pioneer of the stars skill

[@Erydanus]

Pairing an AOE NP with a mod on targets that ONLY APPEAR SINGLY is uh, a choice. Why couldn't he have a skill that "focuses" his Excalibur into single target mode for one turn? We have multiple other NP adjusting servants now (Spishtar, Emiya, and hello Melusine you have a choice of 2 different NPs)...

[@zen_7748]

Sigurd straddles the line between "heavily niche" and "objectively bad". The reason why he's not 24/7 bad in my eyes is because of his anti-dragon specialty; he stomped Melusine/Albion for me in Lostbelt 6 Part 3, and unlike Siegfried, Sigurd's NP is ST, which makes him ideal for boss fights.

[@JohnnyJustice777]

To be fair, Siegfried has double mod against dragon. So his np actually feels like a ST np

[@clementgoh9270]

I love Sigurd, I also used him for LB6 against Albion. The problem is that Sigfried would have just been a better choice, his damage mode stacks with his NP, basically turning his AOE into functionally a single target against dragons, his lower rarity also makes it more likely to have higher level NP, not to mention how his damage modifiers lasts for 3 turns applying to his normal attacks and is also defensive. Overall Siegfried outperforms Sigurd in most aspects and that's quite sad tbh

[@vartner8051]

@@zen_7748 tbf Siegfried is the actually stronger one when dealing damage to dragons cause of his multiple power mods both normal and dragon power ups. But then again against boss fights ST Sigurd definitely a more viable choice.

[@jamses4532]

When the Meta forsake Iskandar, I forsake the meta.

[@btchiaintkidding7837]

wtf there was a time when iskandar was meta ? was it prehistoric times? damm

[@andreicalegari1837]

he was never meta to begin with, so wasn't forsaken lol

[@shr512]

Yorokobe Shounen Iskandar is buffed in 2 years and can finally buster loop.

[@dkcgaming1892]

The biggest problem is they almost completely stopped Interlude/Rank ups outside of Anni until these past couple of months. They CAN make these Servants work, they just chose NOT to. Edit: I doubt Castoria was playtested at all.

[@musashishinmen4286]

Time to buff up your resume for that Lasengle internship 🙂

[@Sekironprime]

for Interludes, iirc it might be some combination of Covid, breaking off from DW and becoming Lasengle, and Nasu's health issues I know the what you'll say about how the hell could Covid be a factor this late and that's cuz they plan so much of the content ahead of time, so Covid def screwed things for them that along with becoming a whole new and how Nasu is so central to FGO's production it certainly didn't leave things in an ideal state there but judging by their recent output, I suspect those issues are well past us

[@sfriedrice4445]

Id rather a new servant that excells in one niche rather than a mid servant. They dont need to be top tier, just make them special in some way! I wouldnt mind not having the best damage, just make them interesting to play.

[@AHbllf]

Yes! Even if the niche is rare or weird, or even a lesser alternate to someone else (because bond is a thing)... Otherwise, someone like S Gareth is just back row bond farming & CE holder - and at that point, she'd be better as a lower rarity to keep team costs down. It is sad. I can still find uses for trash servants - it is usually "I need to kill 3 chaotic servants? Off to Fuyuki X-F. No point in fielding even the C team for this."

[@Niccogamer01]

That was the whole gimmick and reason why Siegfried is great. He has low dmg but his anti dragon dmg is the greatest

[@Rainos62]

Arthur needs a 3rd skill buff and an NP buff to be good at this point. He needs a strong battery along with the extra damage. I think the problem is more that because the buff skills 1 at a time they cant buff multiple parts of the kit at the same time making units become really slow to fix. they need to maybe start thinking about giving multiple rank ups at the same time and speed it up like give 2 buffs in 1 rank up for 4 SQ instead of 2.

[@gatz900]

I think most of the time its unintentional and there was a lack of thought behind their kit and how it plays with the game. I think this is especially the case with older servants. For the newer servants, they have to keep their kit relevant to the current story content which is much more difficult than early singularities. For example, I can't believe there are still SSRs that have a 1 turn card buff when newer SRs have a 3 turn buster/art up. They may have made the decision to just release new servants rather than bringing up every servant up to a servant standard, aside from fan favorites who receive interludes and rank ups. Although I question why they don't update obvious fan favorites such as Iskander, etc.

[@chandlerburres4678]

I agree, because you have some servants are in desperate need of rank ups, like idol alter, yet saber nero's third skill get the buff and that's her straight up a powerhouse... One thing that always annoys me about the servants kit ESPECIALLY when they have a niche is that they create them without much foresight, referring back to idol alter's second skill, it gives her power mod against mechanical enemies... Yet nothing in her kit allows her to apply said trait.

[@lexmats6709]

The problem with Summer Gareth is even though she is 'serviceable' as a servant, she is also extremely popular thanks to LB6. In my biased opinion, Gareth does not deserve to be just serviceable. This cinnamon roll of love and cuteness needs to receive something similar to the Summer Ibuki treatment. She deserves the best in the world and nothing can convince me otherwise!

[@Matt-wb5bn]

PREACH! as someone who has a lv120 max fou lancer Gareth, her Saber form should've received something much better, still praying for her to get a buff in the future

[@NaturalGarethFan]

I find “serviceable” to be quite fine in this aspect, but mainly because I have supports she can use to make her far more than serviceable. Other people don’t have such a luxury, so she seems quite underwhelming compared to similar Sabers.

[@mightylotan]

Arthur may not be amazing.... but I won't abandon him...

[@crocidile90]

I have almost fully maxed him, NP4 but everything else is maxed out. I find him pretty good in grail fronts as atk stats are more important than getting of NPs. Of course a 120 2k atk and Def fou'd servants in general are gonna roll grail fronts.

[@DreamlandsSeeker]

I feel the same way about Super Bunyan. In her case I think they vastly overestimated how useful the like passive would be so they undertuned everything else to compensate. It didn't stop me from getting NP6 and maxing her out, but still. Kinda sucks.

[@tdotitan8855]

I'm just glad you mentioned spartacus lol, your friend has some good taste having him as his favorite servant.

[@ragna6410]

Sigurd is my favorite male servant. So sad that he lacks compared to other buster.

[@GS_CCC]

The only thing he lacks is charge for comp variation and killing a single enemy wave in the middle of a node outside events He has one of the highest NP dmgs even without trait, really good for Ordeal Call ST nodes.

[@timothystone2797]

Honestly, I think some are on purpose. Some are likely hit or miss. But it wouldn't surprise me if some are under tuned, to allow for later Ramkups. I also kinda think Arthur is deliberately bad to make sure he never eclipses Artoria.

[@patricklacey4946]

Diarmuid is my favorite servant, he was evenly matched against artoria, and yeah, we see how he is represented in this game

[@mikyeediaz120]

I also love Diarmuid. And damn, I hate how they make his NP just >> Well, remove buffs after he lands dmg. Like... Bruh.

[@alispeed5095]

@@mikyeediaz120 His np is actually pretty good. Buff removal is OP as a mechanic. He could do way worse. THey could have added no special effect except "inflicts curse" lol There are servants who are like that, special effect at all.

[@HitodeKyun]

I'm honestly unsure whether a lot of the "bad" servants in the game are made purposedly bad, but I would actually argue that a minority of players do genuinely like using these bad servants. I think that assuming that the only value you can get from a bad servant is by pairing him with other characters that are super overtuned, like Castoria, Merlin, or Oberon is maybe not the right way to look at it. I think for some people, like me, it's just more fun to challenge myself using non conventional characters to clear high difficulty quests. Most of my high levels clears I tend to do with Iskandar, Shakespeare and whatever other character I like that might fill a specific niche for that fight. Sure I won't use these teams when I need to farm, and realistically, farming is a big part of the game, probably the biggest one. But there is fun to be have to challenge yourself using characters that were clearly not meant to be used to this extend, and pushing them to their limits. To compare it to something else, in Pokemon, any experienced players knows that Chikorita is the worst starter out of the three available in Gen 2. And yet, there are still people who would rather use Chikorita over the other two, knowing that they are making the game harder for themselves by using one. Or players that refuses to use any legendary pokemon, even though they usually have higher stats then the average mon and would rather using a Butterfree to beat the elite 4. For some people, using a character that are considered "worse" is actually part of the appeal, especially in games like FGO, where there isn't any real PVP. That being said, I do totally get why people would feel disappointed by their favorite characters not being powerful, and I personally wish there was a way to satisfy all kinds of players, but I'm definitely not smart enough to find a solution.

[@Basileus127]

Magic the Gathering had some good game design talks about this and how they create cards for different player archetypes they call Timmy, Johnny, and Spike. Timmy likes to make big numbers even if it takes a lot of set-up. Johnny likes unusual card combos and winning with cards most people don't see immediate value in. Spike is the meta gamer that just wants to win fast and efficient. I can definitely see FGO devs making some servants to appeal to different kinds of players like this, instead of just making everyone is a 3-turn powerhouse. One of the most famous examples they made is the card "One With Nothing" which costs 1 mana and its only effect is that you have to discard your own hand. It made no sense to a lot of players, but some people loved the challenge of finding a use for it.

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@HitodeKyun I know the feeling, bro. I was a chikorita main myself. I don't really agree with ZTL regarding Sigurd, since he atleast has a niche and Arthur atleast have some big boy crits, though he is really weak by SSR standards. But summer Gareth is just borderline unusable. Her whole kit is dedicated to damage, but the reality is that her base damage is so bad that, even with all her buffs, she does weak damage. I don't want every unit to be powerful. ZTL brought up Shingen, but he is a perfectly fine rider. There are servants that are in worse spot than the ones described in the video. First one that comes to mind is Rama. It still baffles me that the devs chose to buff Nero 's guts over Rama. It's not like he had no connection to the Collab, his wife did make an appearance. If the devs really cared, they would have used that as an excuse to buff him.

[@resurrectedpa]

I love Sigurd 😭 He's saved my account against multiple bosses. At this point, idc if people think he's bad. He is the GOAT

[@kr555wizard]

In those cases like pokemon its fair because its a thing everyone has access to and don’t have to pay extra, in a gacha game like fgo where getting the unit is rng, it can feel bad to save for months wether as f2p or a light spender, and get a unit you really like only for them to not preform well. For me a unit doesn’t have to be meta warping or even great, as long as they feel cohesive or have a role that they specialize in. Example serenity is a pretty bad assassin, she has low hits, no survival, bad effects on np, and average np damage and limited number of offensive buffs, but has the niche of poison stacking, allowing her to be valuable in certain fights that have high damage resistance, or to take on fights whose gimmick is built around dot.

[@BDVinci]

I feel like some of these "bad" servants are intentionally made with the prospect of buffing them in the future. It both creates some future "content" to have and look forward to and it makes it so the powerlevel doesn't get out of hand too fast too soon.

[@HexManiac-nf1yg]

This is why I ignore metas. Get to enjoy things without feeling like they aren't that good

[@ปัณณธรประชากุล]

Sigurd is kind of just a victim of his age and Lasagna's trying to stick with his lore. He wasn't really bad during back when he just came out, He is kinda like Musashi with higher damage output but less consistency. The problem is that Musashi got a lot better with her strengthening while Sigurd wasn't. He is better but only a little bit. Not to mention the rise of Buster looper that turned any Buster Saber that has NP charge into a much more viable choice than him. He might have a place as a Crit centric servant, But they refused to gave him any kind of Star Absorb or Star Bomb because they wanted him to have a synergy with Brynhildr.

[@alispeed5095]

The worst was when they buffed him yet still refused to give him a star absorb... At that point it was clear they were not interested in making him good since thats all he needs.

[@reidmoore8754]

God I feel this so hard. When I first began FGO it took me many months to finally get my first 2 5 stars and you wanna know who they were. MHX (When she first came out) and Toshizo. I love them with all my heart but MHX needed so many buffs and unless you build Toshizo in a certain fashion he is glass cannon that dies before he can fire. I was very sad with just how meh they were but I still used them cause I love those two and now that they are better I am happy to nuke people with Toshizo or use MHX as a off meta Saber killer.

[@minx6387]

I've been *BEGGING* for an Iskandar buff for years... But now? I just gave up. I'm just gonna pretend that he gonna stay like this for the rest of the game. Even if he got a buff, there's no guarantee that he'll get a busted buff like Salter's and instead get some useless one like Sigurd's or Maid Alter's.

[@beamknight87]

Summer Archuria is totally balanced lmao, then you see chumps like Altrio, Sigurd, Arjuna (Archer), DUDE, etc so yeah, its obvious the devs are biased.

[@Vierdro]

You really cant help but wonder. Some servants feel like they would be better if they just got released later like semiramis.

[@nightwyrm4354]

I refuse to believe Eric Bloodaxe is anybody's favourite character.

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@nightwyrm4354 I have a grailed bloodaxe in my account. I just like the noises he makes during his np. But, really, can you even call him a character? He had only one appearance in the main story and he hardly, if at all, appear in the events. The man has nothing to stand on. Hell, I think his wife is more of a character than him and she is not even in this game

[@robspidieski1353]

the "that is more useless than a screen door on a submarine" killed me

[@1907IceFire]

Iskandar forgot by lasagna but he still survive in our heart...

[@Tfbrave]

Honestly he's only missing a battery to fix him- add that to his existing skills and he could potentially hit VERY hard But it says a lot about the overall quality of of 5-star buster riders when the worst ones are pre-buff Constantine and Iskandar

[@1907IceFire]

@@Tfbrave yeah he need just a battery but seem they forgot, I really thinked the time was right for It to happen on ptolemy event but well, s.chloe help him to 3T loop even if It's not optimal

[@OverlordMango]

Iskandar 😭😭😭 It hurts too much.

[@Cee_Kaye12]

Now you mentioned it, athur is indeed a beast hunter. Maybe he can have his own story in FGO

[@cyechan50]

They keep hiting at something in his interudes

[@ghostyuki-kfpinquisitor1038]

One that comes to mind is Danzo. Basically the Geronimo of hard defenses. The buff helped but still. (Also on that note, Geronimo in general) Sure they aren't recent but they still need work.

[@Glonag]

Damn summer Gareth is so cute, it's a shame she's not playable at all

[@NaturalGarethFan]

She is quite easily playable, it just requires a team built around her for a mission she can handle. In a way, she is very similar to her Lancer counterpart, but has a new skillset to work around, namely the fact her damage is now consistent but her survivability is lackluster, taking the DPS role over the Tank role. This has its perks and also its downfalls, namely the fact that more and more story bosses aren’t compatible with how she’s meant to be used, that being a burst-damage bean who gets her most value out of the BBB and Mighty Chain, able to have excellent face-card damage and, on crit, can send a poor soul back to the Throne. This can be amplified by using CS as well, since most cases of this utility are Event Quests that rarely involve any need for a party-wipe recovery.

[@patrickloureiro351]

The problem is that you can't make servants like melusine, chen gong muramasa and castoria and then try to release a servant like constantine into the game, lasagne already opened the pandora's box long ago in terms of powercreep and they still try to release servants with like year 3 kits.

[@ethanluke5130]

I can understand servants being bad for lore reasons (Angra Mainyu). Other than that maybe Lasengle has a vendetta against some characters 😂

[@JohnnyJustice777]

Also, really difficult to get in the game and free, instead of wasting currency on the banners. So he is more of a novelty servant

[@FoxfireDraven]

Chad spartacus enjoyer friend

[@Shadow_King_19]

You're totally right about not going into the Elden ring dlc with a new game+ character. I went in with an NG+4 character and it was hell.

[@Gin-dono]

You mentioning Takeda vs Kagetora reminds me of just how much Diarmuid put the hands on Artoria in Fate/Zero meanwhile bro is a 3*

[@vartner8051]

@@Gin-dono nasu even said at 1 in point in a match between lancer cu vs lancer Diarmuid. Diarmuid wins unless they're in Ireland(for obvious reasons of)

[@darcwizrd]

I feel like bad is an overstatement here, especially when more often than not the power differential in this game can usually be mitigates a lot of different ways. But even then that's a matter of comparative analysis which is useful, but I think falls short here since what really matters is if a servant can do sufficiently do the job their need to be doing. A lot of your points here for example are focused on making servants work in specific plug and play setups (e.g.: Buster Looping) which isn't bad since they're standards by which we need to measure things, but I also think that calling them bad because they don't fit into that setup is a bit much

[@123armyoftwo]

Hello fellow Sigurd enjoyer😢. He's so close to being good too, just give him a star absorb skill, thats all he needs and he'll be a decent ST Buster servant. If they want the old servants to be decent or useable they either need to buff them or have an event/game mode where using your entire rooster is encouraged like the Pagoda events

[@GS_CCC]

Would change nothing, his problem is the lack of charge

[@You-wc8vw]

The sun cannot shine as brightly if there were a thousand other suns the sun needs the stars and vast emptiness of space to shine ever more

[@robertdavidblakely]

I'm lucky that most of my favorite servants (not all) are at least good if not busted, but if I like someone enough, they're getting grailed and uses so that they can keep up no matter what. Baobhan Sith and Ushiwakamaru sitting happily at 100

[@JB-ol3xo]

Someone's gotta suck. It's pretty shit if that someone is your favorite, but not every servant can be good. There needs to be demonstrably bad units to make the busted units shine even brighter. FGO isn't exactly alone in having units that are just terrible, its a feature of gachas in genral, hell if anything FGO does an excellent job of making a lot of more avaialble units perfom really well. The only complaint I have about FGO's way of handling it is that a lot of the characters who are demonstrably bad are really strong in lore and beloved by the community.

[@bml2200]

Arthur was my first and only 5* saber for a long time, so he's one of my favorites. However, he was also the reason that I thought the saber class was weaker than the rest for a long time.

[@TheDamnPyro]

In some of the thoughts on how to level out the playing field or make some of the lower levels feel better, especially when people will have favorite characters, I think one of the biggest things that fgo could do is make everyone's NP a little more effective. This means that even if a lower rarity has a really poor kit, it'll actually feel significant and effective using their NP, even if their kit doesn't do anything special or if their hits suck. I think this would go a long way in supporting more character favoritism to give NPs a bit more of a satisfying/useful oomph. ✨, slus, support servants will still have their roles carrying weaker kit or low raritys, etc.

[@wijinsama]

I mean yeah, like Pokemon. They cant all be too good

[@HatsuneMikuo0001]

I guess I am weird because Gareth is the only servant I want from this summer.

[@tyryonolofing3405]

For me it feels like they want to drop buffs in some story coordination, but some ssr servants just aren't part of story. And so they kinda forget about them and as a result you just has Arthur, Semiramis, Nightingale, and so on. There are probably not devs who are much invested in them and so they just keep being in an initial underdog level.

[@GS_CCC]

Worse part is that a lot of buffs take 0 effort like changing a 20/30% charge to 50% But they still prefer to not touch the characters for some reason.

[@zaddyuwu9720]

Proto Arthur is the reason i got into fate i hope everyday he gets buffs

[@daeve915]

Who tf lumps summer wu with summer gareth ?

[@alispeed5095]

Likely a person without Scathach or Ibuki :)

[@andreicalegari1837]

@@alispeed5095 Gray is free

[@OmegaForte]

I feel like there's different development teams when it comes to creating their kits. Even on welfares, notably the early years was noticable. How does one go from Ridertoki's to Summer Scathach's build?

[@ncrnmcn]

This situation is pretty notorious on the higher rarities than the 3★'s and below. Like the only case I can think abt in the 3★ rarity being this bad is Jekyll

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@ncrnmcn What about Geronimo?

[@ncrnmcn]

He's can still be used for aoe wave clearing. Jekyll's design as Hyde is flawed bc the only time he will get to buster brave chain is with his 1st np, and that's if you get his red cards with his np

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@ncrnmcn Here is the thing: none of the heroes that ZTL mentioned are nowhere close to being bad as Jekyll. Not even summer Gareth

[@ncrnmcn]

Im not saying that they're as bad as Jekyll, my point was that there are more bad units in the higher rarity servants than in the lower ones. I just pointed out that Jekyll is the only example of a bad servant in the lower rarity units that are not even lore accurate to be bad units like Angra

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@ncrnmcn first off, look at how many higher rarity units we have. There is a much bigger pool of servants . They rarely add servants to the lower rarity pool. Second, there are a lot of bad to mediocre servants even in lower rarity. Medea for instance, became completely irrelevant with how many buff removal units they added in the game, which also includes bottom of the barrel servants like phantom and Benkei. Not to mention the fact that they gave her a scuffed np damage modifier with no damage buffs in her entire kit. If you are saying that Geronimo can atleast clear a wave, then I can also say summer Gareth can also atleast clear a wave. Im sorry, but a servant, who's entire kit is just color buffs, is not a good servant. Saber Gilles is another bad servant, who for some reason have a demerit that lasts longer than the merit. Red Hare is another horrible servant, with story locked status, pitiful np damage, hit based skills and low base damage.

[@rh906]

"You'll find out what's in the bill when you past it."

[@pickaxepixie518]

I'm slightly lucky that Salter is my favorite character. Bonus points for me because I liked her before the omega buff :). Though her other class copies are pretty bad which sucks.

[@SHADOWREX11]

Still waiting for the Fran updates/upgrades to here kit because I don't count the one skill upgrade that did nothing to help or fix her... Been 6 years...

[@shauqiharris2772]

Out of the topic but I just hit pity for the first time during Archetype: EARTH Banner. I'm literally dead inside just like Kiritsugu after he killed Natalia.

[@gargom3372]

Iskandar is my favorite rider,he has very powerful NP and crits but needs a battery so desperately,sorry for my bad english ✌️

[@Niccogamer01]

I even feel bad for Arthur and Gareth. Arthur literally came from an alternative world to save ours and yet his skills are overwhelming bad and Gareth (Saber) was supposed to be a Buster based Lancelot with amazing crit dmg like the OG Lancelot as she said her Saber is what she could have become if she didn't died and her love and admiration towards Lancelot but we ended up with a miniature Gawqin that it's bad on all departments even her own Buster crit dmg one as Fergus got the Crit buff and Gawain too

[@kitsorcerer]

I love arthur. I am a major simp for him BUT I had to throw so much material at him just to get him usable at np . I lucked out that there are super giant berserker and lancer enemies used quite often but that was luck. Yes he got better after np 1. However there are servants so much better than him uncapped and at np 1. It honestly breaks my heart

[@musashishinmen4286]

Lasengle is probably taking notes from Wizards of the Coast who btw are taking orders from Hasbro If you play Magic you'll know what I'm talking about

[@larrywoolfolk8224]

I'm going to say yes only because it's probably not that said servents are bad but it's because there are so many parameters that make a good servent that trying to make every servent good would make all servents mid. Take FFBE, for example, which is another long-running gacha game where every new unit every two weeks is some new powerspike really good unit. When everyone is special, no one is special

[@Slayer_The_Rogue]

As soon as I heard that Sigurd was bad, I kind of understood why (Considering two of his skills seem all but useless and the third is just Mana Burst with a Guts) But I just can't but love the guy cause he was first actual SSR in the game and actually carried me through some tough as hell fights (especially rerun/memorial fights) His damage output is fucking cranked too, if I'm not mistaken he's still one of the highest damaging ST Sabers in the game. TL;DR, Sigurd is a bro, and he gives us neato glasses, he is awesome

[@Itachi45481]

Sometimes I think others they might be bad due to lore in game or real history but then times are like why do this

[@Tak3034]

Feel like this video was made for me. My favorite servants are Iskandar and Arthur and I never use them cause they inferior to all my other servants.

[@GentleSavage94]

I always thought that they release bad servants intentionally with the intention of ranking up their skills and/or NP. When Constantine came out in JP, my initial response was "He is a bad unit, I'm pretty sure they will rank him up in the future" and it did happen... years after. Just disappointing that SO many units need a rank up and we get them for units that don't need them. Outdated units really need those rank ups man...

[@GS_CCC]

Problem is that most buffs do nothing. Even Constantine's he is still kinda bad even with that, they don't target the real problems servants have a lot of the time.

[@Harbinger359]

For SSRs that are less than "bread and butter Servants" I think it's often accidental, sometimes on account of being experimental. What is more bafgling to me is why they refuse to give updates to or bring out certain Fan Favourites; why did it take them that bloody long to give the Jeanne twins an animation update? Why is Jeanne Classic still rocking dopey skills? Why haven't they buffed Iskandar and Arthur? Why have they buffed Raikou and Vlad III so effectively but haven't given them an animation update? And yes, related to that, for all you Ereshkigal lovers out there, why gave they yet to release Summer Eresh? It just doesn't make sense to me, and I feel like they -have- to know.

[@ayh4968]

Yes. They also intentionally make it so that many DPS servants require a minimum of Np 2 to even be remotely usable. Np 1 is just copium on so many servants.

[@academicace]

There doesn't need to be a lore reason. The answer, as I see it, is simple: if you like Sigurd, you'll roll for him. And that means you have less sq stocked for Skadi in 2 weeks. But you need Skadi, because she's cracked and is going to redefine the meta. So you're more likely to break out that credit card for Skadi. And you have dont have any sq saved for the next Dantes banner for the new best omni farmer. They need to produce units at a steady rate or revenue dries up, but they don't need those units to be good to make money. And bad units that sell well means you have to shell out to get good units too, if you don't want the meta to leave you behind.

[@marupurusaivamsi4802]

I blowed remaining 400 sq on kiara and arc banner . Now 0 sq . Don't give into temptation for np2 guys. 😢

[@rin8310]

Did the same with kiara and got nothing lmao.

[@marupurusaivamsi4802]

@@rin8310 600 sq total spent to only get 1 arc 2 Rama, 2 summer bryn, 2 summer tomoe. 1 mlb honey Lake. It's was bad bro

[@patrickgowen324]

About 800 (give or take) SQ for NP 2 Arc, yeah while not full on buyers remorse it is making me second guess myself on going for it. Still have about like 140 SQ + about 10 tickets so if I’m very lucky I might get something.

[@marupurusaivamsi4802]

@@patrickgowen324 my luckiest ever pulls were muramasa pulls. Got his np2 in literal 2 single pulls . And recently got Morgan, bb, kreim np2, Jacques in literally 150-180 sq. If I get SSR it's always in first 10 pulls are none at all on that banner like wtf. Also hidden pity sometimes carry over. If you don't get 5 star for like 2 months you gonna get one soon ..

[@crocidile90]

As the leader of the FGO amino group.... I got Np2 Arc, NP5 Xu Fu (270 sq and 20 tickets)and some giga chad on the summon banner post got Arc NP6. May the salt flow through you

[@TheEcho154]

I think it's useful to follow the money. If at some point the F2P servants get outclassed, and even some higher rarity limited servants aren't great, it practically necessitates repeatedly rolling for at least something playable. Economically, there's probably a need to push the people for whom "cute anime girl" isn't enough of a reason to roll. But I'm a pretty cynical person, so I'm sure there are other reasonable perspectives with valid ideas.

[@themetus2190]

Well I am paying my money to Wuthering so FGO became f2p for me Wuthering at least deserves money with it's design while FGO just frickin annoying at this point Screw FGO I won't pay them a penny until they buff servants that deserve buff and animation update Everything have it's alternative

[@shikiextend]

"(Skadi)... was intended to make Quick units loop" Ain't no way was this intended or properly playtested, their reaction to seeing players discover the 3-turn refund loop meta was to nerf entire swathes of Quick Servants post-Skadi release.

[@ferrywijaya2557]

Arthur Pendragon Rank Up 3 (I wish): [Giant Beast Hunt A -> Interdimensional Protector of Humanity A] - Grants special attack [Super Giant] or [Threat to Humanity] (100% at max level) to self for 3 turns. - Charges of NP gauge by 20% to 30%. - Increase own DEF by 100% for 3 times, 3 turns.

[@Matt-wb5bn]

i will roll for saber gareth, i want to get her to lv120 or closer, but my god, did they do my girl dirty, still hope she gets a buff in the future.

[@GBlockbreaker]

i think the reason some servants are "bad" is because their niches just don't come up or they just haven't been kept up to modern standards and in some cases it's just wonky early game design, either way all 3 cases require a complete overhaul of the servant which would be a lot of work and risk making other options obsolete i think the best we can do with these weak servants is simply use them whenever their niches come up or consider them fodder for tower events

[@GS_CCC]

A lot of the changes are really simple to make, Like Jinako just never got the +30% self charge helena got, so now we have Helena/Taigong/Jaques etc, etc with 50% self charge +20% from append and 20% aoe being able to 6-slot While jinako is still there with a kit from the 2-3 charge CEs era. They already fixed helena and Castergil by just updating the kit to the modern stardart for the role of wave killer, casgil even got a new one of also being a charger. Same as like iskandar he never got the charge needed to be usable outside events with MLB charge CE, he still has a kit for the 3 charge CE meta. The fixes are really basic and you don't even need to think with most.

[@justanoman6497]

Isn't this just a math problem? You have a finite number of roles to fill--even if you cover every niche imaginatable, it's still finite. Once every role have been filled, your next servant will be either better or worse than the existing top dog of the role it will fill. If it's always better, we have power creep. If it's worse, here we are. Note: "role" include each specific set of multi-role and general purpose as well. Now, in theory there can be an extremely large amount of role combination which allows for all the servant to slot into something. in practice however, any content that would benefit from a large combination cannot be made so hard as to actually need them, or the game will become unplayable unless people have specific servants. As a result, any such potential servant would be difficult to find a place to use, difficult to use and don't really shine.

[@SGMichael0]

My conspiracy theory is that they probably thought Avalon would have the highest amount of people already rolling for her cuz the hype she made back when arcade got her so they dumped the weakest 4* of the bunch with her

[@ToeSama]

The trouble is you will eventually have some duds, otherwise Servants would all be the same. Look at the upcoming Huyan Zhuo and Britomart as a case example. Their kits have difference in end function, yes. But the core is nearly indistinct though. This makes them good for the revived Quick meta, but they're not particularly inspired in this instance. To be a good servant in the game anymore means to retread ground others have walked before you in some fashion or another. I'd be willing to bet that Summer Gareth would get some sort of buff that can eat burn stacks to charge NP. But that just makes her a burn centric Salter variant. Preferable to being weak and unhelpful? Absolutely. But not particularly original either.

[@JohnnyJustice777]

@@ToeSama i don't know which of the two have buff removal resistance. They are that similar. It also doesn't help the fact that Britomart can also farm riders

[@GS_CCC]

That is just false tho. They can have a bare minimum of stuff to make them usable then add skills to make them different. Are Summer Kama and Summer Ibuki similar? S.kama has AoE stun, Stacks extra dmg mods when she hits enemies, has inv etc, charm mod. S.Ibuki has AoE buffs, Target team buffs and CD reduc, crit related skills etc. There is no reason to make one of them garbage for no reason, even if they made S.Ibuki's NP 1 hit she would still be better than a lot of garbage servants since even as a wave 1 killer she is really good and has multiple roles They can have everyone do the bare minumum and then make a unique kit above that.

[@ToeSama]

@@GS_CCC They are similar, yes. In the same way Hyuan Zhuo and Britomart are contemporaries in their field. Their kits hit similar target areas, but do not line up perfect. SKama and SIbuki do the same; Arts boost to them who is doing the heavy lifting for wave clearing, and a 50% NP charge in case something goes wrong. From there, SIbuki has the more useful details that make her supplant Kama for the throne... But that's still creating a baseline with similarity. Any degree of experimentation might make a vastly more superior Arts looper, but it could also make an infinitely worse one. If you want all Servants to be A- or better tier, they have to have A- or better kits. And that would create a lot of similarity between the kits. Some effects are just not universally useful in the game the way others are.

[@TheDeathWombat]

I feel like they test to see how much money they can get out of people just from waifu/husbando alone with characters like Abby. Like seeing how popular she is, and not what she did for the longest time (I really didn’t look at kits back then), I imagined she would be busted and what I got was an…alright unit. Still better than summer but even then…what is it with her? Then again it seems she’s super popular JP side, and they lose their minds over blonde girls all the time Also this was back in a time where running doubles didn’t ruin the fun of the game.

[@mythicalskeleton1546]

They should really buff summer gareth, maybe give her ignore invincibility and crit buff on her np

[@atinybard6594]

Favorite servant is Spartacus.. Absolute sigma energy

[@eekiongedmundchan4558]

Thumbnail: DELETE ALL BAD SERVANTS!!!

[@davidtillinger6543]

How did you get that 67% return on Nero, for the first turn? I have her at NP5 and grailed to 90 and I keep getting around 35%

[@GS_CCC]

JP buff

[@Mt.Berry-o7]

Sigurd's case has always been infuriating to me, he's not even my favourite or anything but the fact that a limited 5 star has skills so much worse than permanent 4 stars like Lancelot or Diarmud saber is baffling.

[@Founder_of_Morgans_Fanclub]

He's much better than either lol

[@GS_CCC]

He is miles better than both, he legit just lacks charge.

[@xenoboost]

Arthur is my boi, but yeah he is not good. He has required a lot of investment to make him okay, np5, 120,appended and fully foued. I believe was a victim of being artoria but not. His kit had to mimic artorias but be different with none of the benefits that she had or got. She's a generalist farmer that hits decently well and has np generation that helps towards looping. He has beat stick crits but no way to direct the stars he makes, np up on a buster skill, a niche that only ever comes into focus at the end of story arcs and even then helps him for a single round, and has an np that hits so flaccidly that many 4* out perform it's damage. His wonky kit screams to me of him wanting to be a soloist boss killer at one point before being shoved into the artoria shaped hole. Anyway off my box, maybe I'll elaborate what may have been his intended kit vs what they can do to make him "better" and maybe my own biased dream kit

[@crocidile90]

I think the easiest way is the make his 3rd be a 50% battery and add "threat against humanity" and "beast" (while also adding back regular gaint) damage mod which would make him a true boss killer. That or go full meme and have a new passive that makes all round table servants (including himself) get a big stat boost when facing a "beast and or threat to humanity" boss to have "in game raid party" similar to MMOs (and yes it stacks both additively and multiplicitively per different round table servant and the fairies count too).

[@blackguava8196]

Bruh, I Bond 11 my Spartacus bruh. Spartacus is fun to use.

[@Idk-rt7hn]

I finally have the holy trinity of nero on NA now i nd draco

[@NaturalGarethFan]

I take offense to Saber Gareth being on the thumbnail (my pf name should make it obvious why), she isn’t even that bad as far as Sabers go. Simple, yes, but definitely not at all bad.

[@BloodEdgeExtreme2000]

As a Sigurd main. I use Sigurd on anything that has Lancer and Berserker on it. It doesn't matter if they aren't dragons. Sigurd is the Strongest in the World!!

[@DYELUZ]

When is summer 7?

[@Sb142sf]

SAVE QUICK SUMMER GEORGIOS AND CAMAZOTZZZZZZ

[@mrharvy100]

Yes…? Look at Geronimo. There are servants with a single skill BETTER than his entire skill kit combined. The fact that he never got ANY of his bad skills upgraded while they keep giving multiple upgrades to servants that were already good shows there is an obvious bias

[@KaiserTheDarkWolf]

I mean kindof. As in any game there should be a "floor" to know what i good, what is mid and what is bad. Technically with a good support set-up this servants work. Arthur can be a good anchor against super giant Boss last bar (por just a opener to take the first bar and get sac after) Gareth is just one more to the list of low-mid 4* servants that we have in the game. She just dont have the damage to put her on mid instead of low but i would put my hands on fire and tell that she is not alone in that list and there are servants that are only save because they have one skill that you can argue for. Its not like "game need bad units" but games need units that dont shine in anything (what we actually call bad). Gareth has a Bi-Color buff for 3 turns of 20% and gain 20 stars, also a 30% Buster up for 3 turns with a 20% charge. That is NOT bad. When we call a unit bad in this game we have to understand that not every unit can have a Niche were outpeforms other units. First and foremost units that are a "base" level should exist. Thats just how the game work. It sucks because as you said, Fate is all about your favorite unit. Everyone is here for a particular guy or girl that they want to bring everywhere. When we understand that is not exactly how it works for most units. Well atleast we have more than 1 favorite servant right?! well sometimes your most most favorite servant will be a "Base" performance unit. But i belive there is not a way to fix it. This happens in card games, in other RPGs. We know what i good because we have something to compare a good unit with.

[@JohnnyJustice777]

I am an Indian, so naturally I tend to gravitate towards the Indian mythos depicted in the game. But when you have a character like Rama, who has arguably the worst guts in the game( technically, gawain has the worst one, but I really don't consider that a guts skill) and see a character like Nero, who already had one of the best guts, get buffed over him, it baffles me. It's not that the guy has no relation to the event, his wife makes an appearance. They could have used that as an excuse to buff Rama, but nope. I remember them buffing squirtoria, who can basically loop her np pretty easily, by giving her a battery. While Artemis is there in the corner with her 1 hit arts cards with terrible gains

[@Tatian4191]

They definitely make them with the possibilities of Rank Ups in mind, at least that’s how I feel. They don’t necessarily want to make the most broken character every time, because then you have to change the way the game works.

[@alispeed5095]

Yep they do.

[@orchidhealth2097]

Spartacus is great. Watch Fate apocrypha to find out why :)

[@add5459]

i tot the green and orange girl in JP was the 7th anniver servant hahh

[@Arthur19790]

I wait for Arthur buff or new animation For years his third skill is useless only vs giants

[@feijesuskucaliz633]

well....In yugi there are cards that are bad on purpuse

[@danielrojas-db9nq]

Every gatcha does that

[@npclucario7005]

My favorite servant is rider carmilla, who has an gimped np so she can't loop, it's def intentional

[@npclucario7005]

At least she's decent as a debuffer but she feels built for esports, not the 120 I did lol

[@GS_CCC]

It has nothing to do with loop. She has was given garbage skills without any compensation. Even if she has -100% charge after using the NP she could be good if she had good skills. But instead of having like 50% self charge and some good team buffs she has a delay 25% charge aoe and 30% def down and -2k hp. She is actually a decent year 1 servant for when the meta was like 3 sakurascopes and 25% aoe would be top tier. Looping could fix her in giving her a role, but would just be a lucky use rather than a design of the servant.