Does Forbidden Door feel that special anymore? | Wrestling Observer Radio

Dave Meltzer and Garrett Gonzales discuss early Forbidden Door numbers and discuss if the show is losing its appeal.
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[@Rommas.]

How's it a Forbidden Door when literally everyone either already works for AEW or have already appeared on their shows a number of times already? The first couple times was fun but it's kinda redundant now

[@zerotheox]

Good point. That vibe is completely gone now.

[@Hotdiggity11]

Is Forbidden still worth killing Dynamite numbers weeks before and even after the event? It constantly leads to a decline in tv ratings.

[@stefanm2731]

Yup it's literally their post WrestleMania lull

[@tadhg82]

Am I wrong in thinking Forbidden Door works better as a TV special, a la WCW Night of Champions to run and Blood and Guts should be a PPV? Forbidden Door feels like a collection of exhibition matches.

[@ramborhoa]

doesn't all of aew feel like exhibition matches

[@blablablaa14]

Yes which is why the ppv should be a weekly show

[@youngzeus87]

It also doesn't help that these other companies aren't hot right now. Neither is AEW so there is nothing to hype.

[@Deans-jm3uf]

I think this switch would be way better

[@paulevans6076]

100% this.

[@AceAndThings]

I watch hours of wrestling content every week (WWE and AEW mostly), listen to several podcasts, and much more into wrestling than anybody I know. Even I don't care about any of the current "FORBIDDEN" talents because they just end up in heatless feuds where they will either lose at the PPV or go over a low-card talent. There are dozens of talents on contract available that could be on tv and building something but Tony would rather lean into a concept that almost no one on Earth could possibly ever care about in 2024.

[@samismith8752]

About a year late with this video guys.

[@ecko4567]

you can see that dave is hurt by these low ratings

[@lukemoloney1113]

Because it's a rejection of Big Dave's flawed opinion. You hate to see it, but most of all you love to see it

[@jaron9978]

@@lukemoloney1113replace “flawed” with “worthless” so you don’t sound like such a twat

[@gormhatre]

There is no point of Forbidden PPV when wrestlers from NJPW & Mexico keep appearing on AEW anyway on random shows.

[@doug2731]

Not at all. They have men and women from other promotions on their TV all the time. Poor Dave grasping for excuses.

[@hunterwilliams551]

Dave’s hair dye looking like creed from the office lmao

[@destructionfun2]

Dude it's like seeing Vince nowadays. Puts me off completely.

[@yungsantana2491]

He’s got the Carlos boozer hair dye

[@onearmedarsenal]

Lmaoooooo

[@perryco34]

The nichè audience is getting smaller.

[@steven80406]

This is what happens when you sign away most of New Japans top talents. It’s not rocket science.

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

What's sad is beside Will who else is really star right now... Okada looks like Taka in Kaientai...

[@kronjobonjo]

Well, it's not "Forbidden" anymore, so it's not the surprise it once was. Time for a name change and change of promotion tact.

[@ReiHost]

You don't know, Dave? Ratings are down, attendence is in the toilet and now buys are down. I know, Dave. Everyone watching this knows, Dave. You know, Dave.

[@martaviouspaul7117]

Is it me or Okada character has just been killed since joining the Young Bucks and he doesn’t matter anymore he needs to leave them immediately in my opinion

[@Scottoest]

What, you don’t like one of the GOATs being turned into “guy who says bitch every week and it’s funny because he has an accent” while he hangs around with the Bucks?

[@wvang0013]

Okada went to AEW to retire early. He's just half-assing in all his matches nowadays anyways.

[@martaviouspaul7117]

@@Scottoestno I don’t I like him with them he’s better off by himself and hangman should just take his place

[@upendrashahidwasau5713]

And his rain maker has also look so weak it looks like normal clothesline

[@rayzaramon6598]

Dude's character died the day he signed with AEW.😂

[@ray.deathray]

It’s basically Regular Door

[@ronniesouthern7829]

Uhm, uhm, you know, I uhm uhm.

[@Behaving_Golem]

Yknow, it's like uhhhhh. I dunno. But the thing is uhhhh but but but uhhhh anyway whatever

[@Phantom7inCH]

These guys love Dave so much they’re starting to talk like him how adorable 😂

[@doubles7533]

No. No one cares about CMLL. And like someone already said, all the good NJPW wrestlers are already in AEW.

[@blablablaa14]

Why would I care about a bunch of masked wrestlers that lose every single match for weeks

[@_Amit_Sunil]

Stephanie VaCurves was dummy thicc though. 🥵

[@yazr1712]

Dave says that. In the video. 🙄

[@doubles7533]

@@yazr1712 Why would I listen to what Ramlbin' Dave said?

[@yazr1712]

​@@doubles7533lol. What does it really say about someone who actively visits a video of speakers who they don't want to listen to, don't watch the video and then expect their opinions to matter? 😂😂😂

[@Bask3tChase]

AEW is a weekly television product thats booked like a monthly indie fed... because that's what influenced the nepo baby the most. Even ECW's tapings were monthly for the majority of its time.

[@rob776]

Cry more, princess.

[@wvang0013]

No it doesn't feel special anymore because all the top NJPW talent are already in AEW. The main event this year was between two AEW guys for example. They just need to get rid of the show or just do it once every few years. Because New Japan has no more top guys and no one cares about CMLL and Stardom.

[@_Amit_Sunil]

An NXT TNA prohibited portal PLE is waaaay more interesting now than Forbidden Door

[@thetribalist6923]

@@_Amit_Sunilhaha “Prohibited Portal”. Somebody watches Wrestletalk.

[@yazr1712]

$1M gate. They ain't stopping any time soon.

[@thetribalist6923]

@@yazr1712 that’s pretty awesome. AEW always has some major level of succeed with their ppvs, even the disappointing shows. Probably a contributing factor into why they’re doing more of them.

[@fusion4015]

Wwe vs aew is the real forbidden door

[@josephcooke4678]

It seems like Dave is getting so close to blaming the booking

[@josephcooke4678]

I wonder how much advertising they're doing in England because I know when they come to Philly we don't see any advertisement at all

[@TheInstantclassicffa]

One thing to consider is the fact that AEW talent can just appear randomly in NJPW and in the promotions in Mexico. AEW caters to the hard-core fan so they probably would also get those shows. My point is if the forbidden door is open all year round, then there's no forbidden door. When John Moxley is the IWGP Champion, does any match against a NJPW feel like a big deal without a proper story? That's why the crossover between WWE and TNA feels cool because it's new and not overdone. Time will tell if it feels that way in a year from now. I'm not saying AEW should limit their wrestlers like WWE does but keeping the forbidden door open all year round doesn't help much

[@anthonyv9324]

Dave is now wearing a scary halloween ghoul mask for shows right? right?

[@FiveNumberJonny]

It's called living in your 60s. You're gonna look like a ghoul as well 😂

[@bigtime-baxster5798]

Making fun of people’s look ain’t it bro. That’s when you go one step too far.

[@anthonyv9324]

@@bigtime-baxster5798 I'm so sorry to be insulting a pro wrestling critic who charges $14.99 for gossip.

[@anthonyv9324]

@@FiveNumberJonny uh huh. Let me know how Dave's balls taste.

[@jaron9978]

@@anthonyv9324oh so you all are bullying him because of his success? Yikes, it actually makes sense now

[@robertcrist5747]

More like....."Where's the back door?"

[@blablablaa14]

This PPV should be a dynamite show. Which would make it more interesting. Just do a giant show where all the people who are interesting from the other promotions are on, maybe it helps ratings for a week, but either way they have too many too long PPVs already

[@drradon]

The thing with all in is that last years show was not enjoyable in the stadium and they doubled the prices. I payed 200gbp for what I thought was a good ticket plus traveling in from Germany and I could not see a thing because the camera crane was right in front of the ring constantly crossing it as well as the screen above the ring. Would have had a better experience with the 20€ ppv on fite and ticket prices for this year moved from 200 to 400 on the seat I was in. No thank you. Also having all out a week later is just stupid. You have your wresltemania size show and need to save matches for another ppv seven days later. Sod off.

[@toniyakovlev4403]

They have had a forbidden door every other week for the past couple of years.

[@leeedwards9068]

Most tickets sold the first week = A LOT of scalpers buying tickets to re-sell… Can’t wait to see the empty seats!!!

[@brickflair8926]

No not at all, especially since Tony lets whoever the fk from NJPW on his show whenever they want anyway, he seriously needs to get rid of the NJPW guys permanently and focus on AEW talent same as ROH

[@josephcooke4678]

Anyone who never saw okada wrestle before, would have no idea he was any good based on what he's done since signing with aew. They almost have ruined him

[@bladerunner805]

Dave is so sad knowing that outside of the new WWE (post Vince) nobody truly draws real business in wrestling anymore.. WWE is a machine & top to bottom there are the best from a business perspective, period..

[@essdeeluckof893]

How is he going to say people are not confident as ospray and swerve as maineventes headling a show.. why wasn’t this a concern before

[@emufarm29]

Dave being consistently aloof to the fact that the product stinks lolol

[@Geekingoutwithmetalgeek]

Didnt aew sign ibushi

[@richardwallerius3269]

He's Hurt or fucked as ankles are shattered

[@Midrange24]

Everything’s great

[@Asushlo]

It's wild that Dave is talking about how "American fans think that 2015-2019 NJPW was the best ever and don't care about the new guys" like Dave isn't the reason for those thoughts. Dave has stopped talking and hyping up New Japan, he's stopped relentlessly glazing their talent and now they aren't as popular. The call is coming from INSIDE the house.

[@JTKatz07]

Forbidden door was special because companies who didn’t work together came together put on a show. CMLL doesn’t have that buzz New Japan use to have

[@kyleolson279]

Dave makes it sounds like AEW sets ppv records each show. Every report I've seen after one is saying around 100,000 buys, nothing to get excited about.

[@AndersonTenecela]

5:15 I’m Hispanic and my family has been watching wrestling since the 1970s and what Dave said about us Latino/Hispanic wrestling fans is inaccurate

[@ryanallan3742]

The reason aew ppv do well is because theres no storys on ppv and just matches which aews good at according to most channels but not for me cause theres not even a story in the matches

[@AH101BigEll]

Forgot Liger as someone no longer coming around.

[@cholosoy8511]

It does in WWE

[@kylewooley7384]

No Okada, Ospreay, Mercedes, Jay White, Aussie Open, Ibushi in NJPW anymore. Really no point in the ppv. No Danielson next year for anymore “dream” matches

[@freshlysqueezed2099]

I was expecting this ppv to be down. It was still a great ppv

[@mrrobert9176]

Well, the first thing that needs to talked about is the NJPW talent we get every year for these shows. Okada - I misused comedy heel who is wasted in a random 6 man tag. Okay. Naito - Broken down from injuries and thrown in a match with a sloppy wrestler (Moxley) and we get the trainwreck they put on. Tanahashi - Broken down star Shingo -Another older wrestler but can still go. Zach Sabre - put against the wrong opponent, but a great addition to the show It’s more of an issue with NJPW clinging on to older talent and mixed with bad TK booking

[@jacosisaba]

Crazy how he's blaming Swerve and not all the other wrestlers that no one in the US has any idea who they are.

[@MrAdamGrainger]

It’s 3 years later. The dream matches have already happened between AEW and New Japan. Neither company is particularly hot right now.

[@cgmshow1871]

AEW did far more damage than New Japan than it did help New Japan do you know how many people might still be over there of AEW didn't exist

[@perryco34]

Nobody wants to have that conversation.

[@ziggy_the_iron_king]

It's still special because you get to see wrestlers you might not normally see on PPV like SHINGO. I think what hurts them that they have PPVs every month now. AEW was doing long term booking and longer drawn out angles before it started to become a thing in WWE. I think the fact that they had 2 to 3 months in between really made AEW unique especially if you got people paying $30 and up the watch as opposed to $4 a month on Peacock. Forbidden Door is still unique because you can put together dream matches that don't need a complex build or Story

[@ramborhoa]

This video get 2.25 stars!!!

[@animedrawer69]

AEW got both Jay White and Okada and have them doing comedy. Imagine the story that could have been told with those two guys wrestling people from their former companies for “betraying” them and leaving for the competition.

[@fidzfidz]

The best and the one that's actually matters are all AEW related. I expect them to abandon forbidden door and chang it to blood and guts

[@markfacebook]

They got away with it the last 2 years because the first one was a legit gimmick, and the second one had the gimmicks of Ospreay vs Omega and Bryan vs Okada. This year proved that they are done with the dream match gimmick. There's none left. At this point, Forbidden Door should be resigned to a 3 hour TV event.

[@duckmercy11]

If Tsuji can become a star there's still him.

[@FakeKraid]

If Will Ospreay isn't a proven PPV main event talent, then I don't know what that term means.

[@iamdb1990]

Dave, I'm begging, just say it... "Tony can't book and should stop now and let someone who does know help out"

[@presuming_ed]

It just feels like super card of honour in terms of hype not scale

[@josephcooke4678]

The only match I had any interest in that pay-per-view was Swerve vs Osprey. The rest of the pay-per-view was just matches. They basically ruined forbidden door by having these guys on TV all the time

[@liammccarthy3754]

40k isnt considered a failure after over 80k last year....i want what hes smoking

[@joshann1251]

What’s worse, Dave’s VERY subtle hair dye or Garrett’s everything?

[@iceman-hw7kb]

no because i don't know the other wrestlers besides aew wrestlers i don't watch or follow njpw or cmll or stardom

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

Khan thinks fans should watch everything and treats AEW as a super promotion like NWA back in the day. Only thing he is missing is the why.

[@rayzaramon6598]

NO FUCKING STORYLINES IS WHY PPL AREN'T BUYING IT, MAAAAAAN!! Why is this so hard to understand for Dave?

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

Hey they got tits and ass MIna and Tony, and is Maryah. lol

[@littleCarmine]

Dave is so out of touch for liking this style of wrestling

[@423chart]

Here to listen to this week’s excuses

[@jotac87278]

0:58 Ospreay isn't a proven main eventer? Dave has given him 7 matches rated 5 stars or more. He's getting paid like a top guy. Forbidden door doesn't mean anything because all the top NJPW guys are now AEW. Dave is just doing verbal gymnastics. Holy hell. Just say their product isn't as hot right now. We all understand. His inability to call it out gives credibility to the people who think he's biased.

[@imneveruploadinghere7180]

Forbidden Door doesn't feel special anymore because is constantly barraged by wrestlers that are from different companies in the normal TV shows already. Why would I be excited to see a cross promotional show between NJPW and AEW when NJPW already has their talent doing matches on random Dynamite shows? CMLL had their wrestlers on Dynamite and Collision, why would Forbidden Door feel special?

[@atomicbrain9401]

Not special. Tony has destroyed njpw.

[@AdrianBeegoatz]

The Forbidden Door hasn’t really been very ‘forbidden’ over the past 2 years 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@lukedpk4557]

First ppv I have ever missed I just prefer regular aew instead of the other company’s joining but I think this month is always a low time for me

[@ryanallan3742]

I live in uk and we never het live wrestling so why would it not sell out when it only comes here 2 times a year but football matches draw 60k weekly??? Soo embarrassing i dddd so bbb because nobody cares about it anymore the honeymoon period plus 3 years is over

[@benespinosa6725]

Forbidden door doesn't feel special anymore it's a dead concept tony khan has given us zero reason even care plus these events are basically what WWE'S events in Saudi Arabia are plus who gives a shit about these no named Japanese wrestlers just get rid of it and rethink this next year but I doubt that'll happen since tony khan thinks everything is great but this most certainly isn't the real Forbidden door is NXT and TNA not AEW and NJPW enough of these Band-aid excuses for a terrible product.

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

It was a dead concept after the first one. The whole show feels like a dud, random matches with people no one cares about. What was the point of the 6 man matches?

[@benespinosa6725]

​@@athanaskozhuharov9700I agree 100%

[@ChrisG667]

No, cause it’s Japanese or Mexican dudes who are gonna lose (unless you’re Naito) or guys who Tony is gonna offer a billion dollars to when their contract is up (hi ZSJR, can’t wait til you beat Ospreay for the title at Wembly next year)

[@blablablaa14]

The truth is the NXT and TNA partnership has been more forbidden than anything AEW has done in years. At least TNA has Joe Hendry

[@loserhimself4044]

It was ok, we got good matchups but the build-up was extremely weak. Also, the main event shouldn't be guys in the same company vs each other

[@KairosObj]

Both promotions (AEW & NJPW) aren't as hot this time around so that factors in a lot. Some would argue CMLL is hotter.

[@Deans-jm3uf]

There is a segment of fans for whom it never felt special. But I’m sure I’m not a real aew fan if I don’t watch 20 plus hours of wrestling a week and follow 6 other promotions

[@noiisserpmii]

No because they purged NJPW & do forbidden door every week…

[@jasonjimerson7046]

In all honesty, it does not. I was more interested in the AEW only matches, especially the Swerve vs. Ospreay title match. If they did the Suzuki vs. Jericho match that they were teasing, I would be more interested in that.

[@rogerbabin8175]

Title: I never liked the concept from year one since its execution came off as classic WWE Survivor Series. Its a PPV that takes away from existing stories and puts your tv show on hold to showcase a one off program with no lasting consequences or meaning. Making it even worse is the politics....yes, you bring in NJPW but no one believes that certain outcomes will happen. MJF had a 0% chance of losing this year because its MJF and this is an AEW show first and foremost. This runs counter to everything I enjoy in wrestling. For the record...I probably feel 100% the same way about what NXT is doing...I don't watch NXT but assuming they execute their TNA crossover in the same way then I feel the same way. In the spirit of this question in the title I should answer YES. Prior forbidden door's were just NJPW if I recall...this was the first one with CMLL. That makes it feel special, right? For the people who like this stuff that's the kind of stuff you'd like. TK failed to build these matches well for the most part and that would improve things...but he's been evolving the PPV in a way that should continue to work for people who don't hate the concept. Maybe next year he can bring in some people from death match companies as well as do a match from that promotion that doesn't have ropes. Keep bringing in 'dream matches' from outside companies but actually build them like WWE would build a celebrity match at WM.

[@REVAMPEDWRESTLING2K]

Forbidden Door card was mediocre

[@silveredgrunion7196]

It's special when everyone doesn't already have the key to said door. Like the women's bathroom in my gym, sometimes I use it to make number 2 but their seats are smaller so there's a bit of smearing. Yesterday they said it looked like someone chewed up onions and gravy and spit it all over the seat, they had to call the janitor and everything. Okada joining aew effectively ended the concept of forbidden door.

[@oelboy]

That's a very good point, there just isn't that special feeling of "forbiddenness" anymore. I also think that it's not your fault when the seat is too small so some spray lands on it. The janitors should just do their job and stop complaining. I once managed to get a hefty log stuck because it did not break apart and wedged itself in the drain. I don't think I should have used the brush to break it apart but I did so anyways. On that note, I also agree that Okada signing with AEW effectively ended FD.

[@silveredgrunion7196]

@@oelboy what the...?!

[@paulevans6076]

Short answer: No. Long answer: The 1st FB was special as it had never been done before. AEW was hot. New Japan was still somewhat hot themselves. Now. 3rd year of the event. Both companies cold as they've ever been. Majority of top New Japan talent have already joined AEW anyway. There's no real 'dream matches' left between both companies. There's no follow through on matches and stories after the event. So once the events over - the result of the matches dont really matter. So if you don't get to see FD then it doesn't really matter too much that you missed the event. There's not much interbrand hype for the event between the companies. Sure some New Japan guys appear on AEW TV in the lead up to the event for matches and segments, but never the other way round - AEW guys never jump over to New Japan. So the matches get very little build. We even see some 'top matches' happen that never have the guys competing cross paths or cut a promo against one another. The match just gets booked randomly. To prove the point of how little the AEW v New Japan concept matters now - this years event featured CMLL talent as well as being main evented by a AEW v AEW main event.

[@drobinson-uo7ic]

The first Forbidden Door wasn't special because they rushed New Japan wrestlers' introductions with no explanation or video package. Four New Japan guys would run out all at once and Excalibur would give a rushed explanation. No build. No subtlety. No uniqueness. Other than a couple of dream matches that delivered, it has always been poorly built.

[@scottshaffer7296]

Stop doing forbidden door and just have one cross promotion match on the ppvs and give it Time to build up the match

[@dereckmejia7981]

God Dave and his aew excuses

[@leeedwards9068]

Is there ANYTHING special about a short-arm-clothesline (sorry, a ‘Rainmaker’)… Or a high school level gymnast outshining their junior high school level gymnastics colleagues?? AEW is SHITE

[@nicksak503]

They couldn’t drum up one interesting forbidden door feud for the show it was god awful with half ass stories and half ass wrestling

[@seannetworkblogsandgames7504]

It's not worth it. NJPW is going thru a weak spell with the roster, and stardom is a largely unknown quantity against a weak women's division. I like CMLL but I don't even spend $5 for their ppv events. Why would seeing them wrestle (minus their feuds with actual heat) make me spend 50?

[@DillAvery]

Forbidden Door is only important to Tony and those fans who watch NJPW, which isn’t everyone. So a lot of fans are like “Who are these guys and why should I care about these feuds/matches?” It’s even worse when you have guys people want to see on your roster like Miro, Ricky Starks, Danhausen and others but AEW is doing nothing with them, it give TV time to people from another company. Forbidden Door is a good idea, just not as a yearly PPV.

[@lesliefarlow5734]

Im an AEW fan & to me Forbidden Door is the most boring part of the year because usually for the month we're not watching AEW programming it's a one off 1 month feud with people we won't see again. However the Dynamite after FD was awesome

[@andrewsheehy9938]

This year's Forbidden Door had the task of taking place a night after a UFC Pay Per View.

[@Aj6711]

Keep in mind that number is Worldwide 110k that means they did far far less then 100k buys in the USA let that sink in they prob did Like 50k in this country but keep making excuses

[@TheTruth-mv7hm]

It never was

[@steveg9941]

It's went the way Survivor Series has went. Both not as appealing as they once were.

[@LDavis-uz6xl]

Survivor Series' appeal lasted much longer than 3 shows in 2 years. And to this day, after nearly 40 years, still remains one of WWE's biggest shows of the year. Not a fair comparison.

[@steveg9941]

@@LDavis-uz6xl Not anymore......

[@LarryB-ms1ci]

Trying to blame Swerve and Osprey as “unproven” main eventers is farcical. The idea of increasingly Meaningless exhibition matches with no real story as the focus for a PPV, is perhaps not the best use of resources.

[@JohnRigby5011]

No

[@deathmetalmadness4642]

Is it worth hurting your numbers for the sake of this one event, nobody cares about these guys n it hurts aew before and after it takes place. We can all see these guys from Japan are very beat up n we are no longer willing to give them a chance, fell for it before but not again plus I am non the wiser for knowing who they are after a few years, not everyone watches New Japan, they pretend they do

[@NLaBar]

Why would anyone pay for the PPVs when they can be streamed online for free so easily?

[@xShoTime83x]

AEW doesn't even know how to book the stars they've signed, why we acting surprised that AEW can't book international stars from other companies right.

[@youngzeus87]

No it's over already. AEW ruined this show by signing all the top talent. Time for a change next year

[@TitanFan2727]

I was promised Taka Michinoku & Funaki.... wtf Tony Khan?

[@ramborhoa]

INDEED

[@athanaskozhuharov9700]

Hey we got Okada saying bitch in broken english!!! Hey Russo how you doin!

[@ibn1989]

No you weren't. Stop lying.