Does Mediation Work When Divorcing a Narcissist? - Laurie Itkin - The Options Lady

Although your first instinct may be to hire a lawyer who is a "shark," you can divorce a narcissist through mediation assuming your mediator has training and experience in dealing with difficult personalities.
You may be worried the narcissist will try to charm the mediator and win him or her over. A strong and experienced mediator won't let that happen but that's where a certified divorce financial analyst (CDFA) can add a layer of protection.
Your narcissist spouse may have already figured out how to divide assets and address child and spousal support. The CDFA, as a financial expert, can explain how various proposals or ways of splitting the marital pie may impact you financially in the short and long term. Armed with that information, you can make smart choices.
You and your spouse can hire the CDFA as a neutral financial expert or if you want an advocate to help you become financial savvy, you can hire a CDFA to work exclusively for you. The CDFA helps level the playing field when one spouse has more financial knowledge and experience than the other or there is a power imbalance in the relationship.
If you live in California, check out TheOptionsLady... to see if Laurie Itkin may be the financial neutral or advocate you need. She has worked on more than 450 divorce cases for clients throughout California. If you live outside California, you can find a CDFA at institutedfa.c....
Laura McGee of LeaveStrong.com is a mediator who has significant training and experience in dealing with difficult personalities. She mediates cases for California residents and also acts as a divorce coach and strategist for clients around the country if she is not the client's mediator.
key moments
0:00 Does Mediation Work When Divorcing a Narcissist?
0:42 Considering Divorcing a Narcissist?
3:10 Breaking Down What Mediation Is
7:37 Dealing with a Narcissist

[@stacyramirez5459]

It doesn't work because narcs DO NOT MEDIATE.

[@steves4533]

I went to a mediation to try and settle a dispute with a narcissist once. The mediator came back in our room with a dumbfounded look on their face, and said, "this has never happened in my career as a mediator, but they (narcissist) just will not talk to me. I have to talk to their lawyer, who then has to talk to the (narcissist) privately, and then the lawyer gets back to me." And I was like, yep, that's how it goes. So we finally told the mediator, just ask them what they want. The mediator came back, and what the narcissist wanted was more than their fair share. So we countered with what would be a fair share. The mediator came back exasperated and said, "now they want even more". It was completely futile and a waste of time and money.

[@mart242]

"The mediator came back exasperated and said, "now they want even more".". Lol. I agree, that's how it goes. Constantly moving the goal post.

[@jafetlopez3892]

Narcs destroy lives!

[@jans724]

It's highly unlikely to work. I tried mediation (twice) in custody trial with covert narcissist and it was pointless. Basically the narcissist uses it to stall, to gather information (about how far you're willing to go), to acquire character traits (imitate things from you or from the mediator, which they can then use later in court).... etc. Sadly, the narcissist doesn't care about her children, only uses them as instruments. She (or he) will display the facade of caring..., play the victim etc.., but in reality there is no empathy whatso ever. Not even for her own children.

[@LaurieItkin]

Unfortunately sometimes that is the case.

[@pocahontas4583]

My soon to be ex is like that. Uses the children as a pawn but he’s HEAVY on the projection so whatever HE’S doing, he says I’m doing. Like he told me I was using the kids as a pawn because I wouldn’t give him a key to my place and let him wait at my house to pick the kids up from the school bus instead of just picking them up directly from school while I’m not home on my in office day. I wouldn’t agree to him being at my house when I’m not there and having full access to my house. So according to him that was ME using the kids as a pawn.

[@chebrubin]

@@LaurieItkin Honestly once we start using the Narcissist tag on someone. All the constructive dialog collapses. Lack of agreeability to negotiated terms is the problem.

[@LeaveStrongLaura]

Thank you for taking the time to join Laurie Itkin, "The Options Lady" and me, Divorce Mediator, Laura McGee.

[@VinayTruth]

It worked with me in gaining focus to destroy narcissistic moves I meditated for a year and destroyed by exposing them & deal with them tactfully

[@SY-db5tj]

Could you please share more details how did you destroy them? Thank you so much!

[@robynetaylor6605]

My Narc filed, created lots of conflict, violated Standing Orders, assaulted me and a year later I’m taking him back to Court because he won’t pay out Court Ordered assets. He had to get an attorney because I’m asking for jail time for contempt. Mediation was 30 minutes with me and the rest with him. Nothing was settled. The Mediator had nothing to negotiate because the Ex wanted everything (literally) and wouldn’t budge. He valued the $1M house at $540k because that’s how much he could get a VA loan for plus he wanted me to pay closing expenses and a non-existent 6% Realtor commission; all of it. Between attorneys and staff and mediator it cost $21k … for nothing.

[@LaurieItkin]

I'm sorry your divorce carries so many challenges.

[@stacyramirez5459]

This channel IS EMPOWERING ME!

[@patjones2082]

❤Thank you for this great info.More on divorcing narcissists, please!

[@jaycee5082]

that is so great if you live in Disney Land.........I don't have children with my soon-to-be ex-spouse narcissist of mine.....we created a business in the marriage.....he has controlling and abusive to me......which lead to him removed from the home and charged with domestic assault/damages.....he took all the financial matrimonial money aka the business. and cut me off any support to me.....leaving me with zero money in the bank.......he thinks because we don't have children he doesn't have to give me anything except a simple divorce.. mediation, I don't have faith that this will work.....just the thought of sitting beside him scares me as well he intimidates me. I know he hiding money and how is mediation going to help reveal the hidden money?

[@Janisg616]

You should start with a 50%/50% assumption, and then decide if there are some obstacles to why that is not a viable option.

[@danielmeehan425]

I bet not even half the guys they are talking about are Narcissists. That word is getting thrown around way to much these days.

[@LaurieItkin]

Agreed, Daniel. I get many calls from women telling me their husband is a narcissist. They may have difficult personalities but that doesn't necessarily make them a narcissist.

[@FlappyBelly]

I agree too...this would be a great topic to explore...real narcissism vs. Something a woman doesn't like about their partner.

[@digitalfly772]

Absolutely Medication Works !!!

[@LaurieItkin]

LOL

[@chebrubin]

How does a "mediator" make the baseline that 50 / 50 physical custody is not the stake in the ground? Do you know how much research is coming out that custody agreements are best to encourage parents to go 50 / 50. A trauma occurred. Both parents should step up and help the kids heal 50 / 50.

[@agente180]

Good insight. Thanks

[@LaurieItkin]

Glad it was helpful!

[@pngproductions8529]

do you do video mediazations, Im married to a narc..want a divorce but rather have somone educated on narc to see through the games he will play in meditation

[@ronbridges3933]

Short answer, no. Everything you own is either “something she brought to the marriage, a gift given specifically to her, something she bought with her own money, or a debt that belongs to the husband alone”. You won’t walk away with anything except mediator bills. Just leave and don’t look back.

[@FlappyBelly]

Arguing that you shouldn't have to pay spousal support doesn't make someone a narcissist. If the wife didn't give up anything for the family (a career for example to raise kids) and didn't contribute to the finances and didn't maintain the household and ran up the debt...ya didn't deserve it and you get nada. That is not narcissism that is reality.

[@LaurieItkin]

In California where I practice, when you get married, you and your spouse are now a "community," regardless of who earns what income. The income is community income until the date of separation. I encourage you to read about the "4320 Factors." www.ghazilawgroup.com/the-importance-of-family-code-section-4320-factors-rule-to-your-spousal-support-order/

[@AnGeLaOYA]

Due to DV couples can meet with mediator separately?

[@LaurieItkin]

Many mediators offer online mediation via Zoom so you can all meet together but be physically separate.

[@FlappyBelly]

Are you referring to a clinically diagnosed narcissist or someone who is perceived as one by a spouse? I think a lot of people misuse the term.

[@LaurieItkin]

Agreed. Many people misuse the term. I find it interesting that a large percentage of clients with whom I work inform me that their spouse is a narcissist. I doubt many of them have been clinically diagnosed as such.

[@FlappyBelly]

@@LaurieItkin I think they have been diagnosed by their friends over Chardonnay and a Real Housewives marathon. "Ugh! My husband gets so mad at me when I forget to start the dishwasher and we have no forks for dinner." Everyone together now..."NARCISSIST! "

[@juliedahl1892]

Can’t you get Reference’s???

[@LaurieItkin]

Hi Julie. References for what, specifically?

[@savannahcox9032]

You can pick your own mediator?

[@LaurieItkin]

You can pick your own private mediator.

[@naveedrehman2987]

Hell no!

[@De-tw7by]

If someone is not behaving the way we want them to behave we call them narcissist😜. 85% of divorce are initiated by women.

[@robynetaylor6605]

Tell my Ex that. He initiated 2 out of 3 and the other one wasn’t going to put up with him abusing her young son.

[@michaelbyrne5535]

9 weeks experience, wow

[@FlappyBelly]

...so if you are polite you are a narcissist...if you are rude...then not a narcissist? I want a doc to react to this video.

[@pocahontas4583]

No it’s just the narc is pretending to be nice. Both people may behave nicely or seemingly nice. The narc is just copying what they think nice looks like.

[@FlappyBelly]

@@pocahontas4583 So how do you know if it's REAL nice or PRETEND nice?

[@hannaheye]

Ugh can this woman please clone herself and then time travel back to 2 months ago so I can retro-hire her? 😭

[@LaurieItkin]

I wish we could have been there for you, Danna.