Does the Church Talk About HELL Enough? w/ Ralph Martin

[@jjpaque03]

the best short talk on belief with relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ that I have heard. Thank you.

[@brianw.5230]

I reverted to the Church in 2016 after being an edgy atheist and hardly ever hear a homily on Hell.

[@rschiwal]

Too many WAAAH's.

[@brianw.5230]

@@rschiwal what

[@boku5192]

​@@rschiwal ?

[@jdlc903]

Why do you say "edgy atheist" where I am from being agnostic is the norm/default .Having an actual religion makes you edgy.

[@ja_u]

@@jdlc903 Damn that’s pretty edgy

[@Colonel63]

I'm really glad I clicked on this and listened to this very well informed answer. Thank you both.

[@kirstenferguson8204]

Hello my friend a few wks ago I was struggling wae "life" and u helped me thankyou I'm no a Catholic but I believe in Jesus & of course God if u had asked me a few wks ago I widv said we live in Hell right now but that's not true just wanted to thanks 4 showing me that's not true btw I'm from Glasgow & the way I text is just the way we talk 😂💗

[@Steven-rp8zo]

Keep up the great work! Knowing and loving Jesus is the most important thing we can do in this life and helping save other souls as well! Try to find a good loving traditional church and so much good info online. Life is short and eternity is forever, Viva Cristo Rey! 🙏👍❤️

[@drewblack749]

The Saints had to work at not sinning. Yes. Work. Are we willing to work as well?

[@UltraAar]

work to save yourself? why did Jesus die?

[@bradswanson7919]

@@UltraAar all I hear when Protestants harp on supposed works righteousness is "don't call me out, I don't want to have to be responsible for my sinful habits."

[@GardenMinistry.]

Yes! When you are willing to work, it means the holy spirit is driving you to work. When you are not willing to work, you are not doing as Jesus and the Apostles taught us repeatedly to do. You can't do it alone, you need the holy Trinity, prayer, confession, Eucharist, the holy word, and humbleness, all in the spirit of holiness, and in the name of Jesus. Our saints have set such an amazing example for us all. From what I read, Martin Luther was not willing to work anymore, he gave up, so he lead many people away from the church to start his own way of thinking, which is faith alone.

[@UltraAar]

@@bradswanson7919 All I hear is that Jesus' sacrifice doesn't cover your sins

[@ramigilneas9274]

@@UltraAar Without the sacrifice of Jesus no amount of work would be good enough to cover your sins. But without work Jesus will personally tell you that he doesn’t know you.🔥🔥🔥

[@ClockworkAnomaly]

A thought I had while listening to this- The story of the Prodigal son is not a story of a man frittering away his inheritance and living happily afterwards. It is a story of coming home. We often take this view that anyone can be saved- yes! The prodigal son is an example of that line of thought. BUT!! The coming home part is VERY IMPORTANT. We have to come home, where we will be loved and welcomed and live a true life. If we simply assume that God would accept us if we came back, but never ACTUALLY come back, then we are lost! This is true of any non-catholic, and any non-practicing catholic, and any lukewarm catholic, and any catholic who has things left to fix in their active life. Come Home!

[@louisaccardi2268]

There is a huge disconnect not only in pop Christianity, but many of the protestant denominations as well on the topic hell. Of course, in the 1950s when I was growing up Catholic there was a huge emphasis on the doctrine of hell, which left a lasting mark upon me. There was more of a sense of the fear of God in the church back then as well. Both are tragically missing today among all types of Christians.

[@jimmyrumney4379]

Y’all need to either read or listen to St. Leonard of Port Maurice’s sermon “The Fewness of the Saved.” He uses biblical typology to demonstrate that 8 were saved from the flood on the Ark, and the Church is a type of the Ark. it’s well worth the reading/listening especially with Advent upon us. Read the Saints in accordance with scripture and meditation upon the 4 Last Things will lead many more souls to the confessional and later towards heaven.

[@day1678]

The Blessed Mother did not hesitate to show the children of Fatima the vision of hell.

[@gabrielpelino891]

As a former Catholic, and now a Born Again Christian, I have to say that was one of the best explanations of Hell that I've ever heard. Cudos to Ralph Martin for explaining this so tenderly and intimately. WoW! I'm grateful for your channel and listening quite often! Thanks again!

[@roberteaston6413]

A Roman Catholic bishop of Edmonton said that if there is a hell it is mostly empty. He was wrong. I once attended the funeral of a 43 year old lady who died of cancer. She was a nominal Catholic. The priest said that she became a Christian when she was baptised as a baby. The priest was wrong. After a certain age we have to choose that we will accept God's offer of salvation and get born again.

[@benandstefflauchlan3946]

Same here, love this Ralph Martin guy, sounds like he’s born again too!

[@benandstefflauchlan3946]

Except Jesus taught one must be born again to receive the kingdom of God

[@roberteaston6413]

@@Kitiwake According to your definition of what constitutes a Catholic then Adolph Hitler died a Catholic.

[@roberteaston6413]

@@Kitiwake John 3:3-8 Christ said that we need to be born again or born from above to see the kingdom of God.

[@robertdelgadocapetillo8684]

I fear that's where I'm going, because I keep offending God with the same sin over, and over again.

[@dn.scottzogg314]

Keep going to confession and don't give up. God will forgive you if you are remorseful more times than you can sin.

[@UltraAar]

Jesus died for you, stop thinking you are losing your salvation whenever you have a set back.

[@chrispy4636]

Never give up the fight! God will help you overcome your sin. A good prayer if you feel you are falling into despair is the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Remember, the gruesome death Christ died was not pointless, it was for you.

[@rickdockery9620]

You are saved through your faith. We are sinners, there is no way around that. Put your faith in Christ. Fear not. Repent.

[@boku5192]

When you conclude that God won't or can't forgive you anymore "because how could he forgive someone like me?" precisely at that point you are damning yourself, by rejecting his mercy. So many people were lost this way. Fear the day you don't feel remorse after you sin. Sin separates us from God but you don't have to stay that way run to him immediately after you sin, we must humble ourselves

[@minasoliman]

I struggle with this concept, only because I don’t think one should logically assume “anything goes” if it isn’t for eternal hell. I think one’s spiritual progress and maturity can be potentially improved by not depending on punishments or rewards, but by the love of God, where that person does not care about one or the other. Therefore the truth of eternity of hell no longer matters. You’re doing right because you love God. If it turns out that hell isn’t eternal, that shouldn’t matter either. If “anything goes” because hell isn’t eternal, that should speak to the spiritual immaturity of the person himself, not of the teaching of the possibility that all might be saved. So I get it, and I’m sorry this man is criticizing Bishop Barron for something that is actually very patristic, especially in the Eastern side, accusing him of moral wishy-washiness. That’s just plain wrong.

[@jamestyler6911]

Wow, that was powerful, amazing. Thank you!!!

[@blakesanders4085]

Haven't missed Sunday Mass in over 20 years. Lived in 10 different places over that time. Haven't heard 1 sermon about Hell. I can only suppose it's not real or no one goes there. Why else would it not be worth mentioning?

[@tomaszskorski6596]

So sad, but true!

[@OpEditorial]

This is a good point, the overall lack of attention Hell receives, when it is literally the focal point of why the Bible was written in the first place (as in read this to avoid going there) seems bizarre

[@AJanae.]

Good point! Much of the Bible talks of consequences to actions, from Genesis to Revelation.

[@OpEditorial]

@@AJanae. exactly, if anything the King James Bible needs a "prequel" of sorts.There is so much edited out backstory just in the line :"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" it really needs it's own book!

[@calenbennedict2125]

I always said our Parish never did Eucharist Adoration and Hell was never preached from the pulpit. The confessional was empty. We are having a resurgence of the faith now.

[@Mrm1985100]

Eternal torment is an absolutely ludicrous concept which was never taught by Jesus or any of the apostles. The teaching of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation is clear and really unanimous: the wages of sin is death and the wicked will therefore perish and disappear. There are about 200 passages in Scripture which teach Annihilationism and about two which could be seen as teaching eternal torture, of these two passages one is a satirical parable/story about the intermediate state (Luke 16 talks of hades not gehenna), and the other is apocalyptic hyperbole in an extremely symbolical book (Rev 20:10), which we are told actually represents the "second death" i.e. destruction.

[@sonny8638]

The times of rainbows and butterflies are over. Now that you have their ear they ought to listen. You teach a child to respect flames so they do not get hurt. Time to teach the children

[@andrewt.2850]

More souls will be lost than saved....prepare yourself today.

[@deion312]

Jesus talked more about hell than He did heaven...

[@ramigilneas9274]

Hell didn’t even exist before Jesus came.

[@KingDavidWood]

@@ramigilneas9274 Evidence of this?

[@Mrm1985100]

He talks about Gehenna not the Catholic version of "hell".

[@margokupelian344]

Just by reading the title my immediate thought was, no, the Catholic church does not talk enough about hell, but the Protestant church does, a bit too much. Sometimes it makes me wonder if priests ever think about what their response will be when they stand before God on judgement day. They are more accountable than we, lay people are. This is serious and scary too...

[@ianrobinson8974]

13/11/2121 WELL SAID Ralph, sad to say most people do not recognise the TRUTH. Purgatory is going to be the best result for so many of us beings (the bathroom od Heaven, as I consider it); particularly those who do not recognise Jesus as God's son. The arrogance of so many people is hard to cope with at times. BUT for those who believe: pray, pray, pray as our Blessed Mother has asked up so many times.

[@HeidiGremillion]

Well, I do know one thing...the road to Hell is wide.

[@trickiwoo3573]

Matthew 7:13-14. Our Lord said it.

[@Mrm1985100]

No, Jesus said the way to destruction is wide. Destruction means to perish and disappear not to have eternal life in hell.

[@nicholasmargagliano1833]

No they don’t. It wasn’t until i found the teachings of hell, specifically from Fr.Isaac Relyea where i turned around. I left impurity, i left parties that had party things (take a guess) all because i FEARED hell. To this day as i learn more about how evil that place truly is, I’d rather be tortured than consent to any mortal sin. Fear God and you will not sin. The exact saying i believe is Keep your end before you and you shall not sin. Before i found out how EASY it is to go there, i was a “Catholic” but a modernist. Women and fun were my M.O. Remember the 4 last things. Death Judgement Heaven Hell

[@Steven-rp8zo]

Look up interviews with Howard Storm an atheist NDE survivor who went to hell and then found Jesus. That helped scare me straight years ago!

[@DwayneEagle114]

can these videos please be in polish subtitles too my girlfriend would like to understand

[@willmccauley904]

based

[@Pyroverbs205]

Will you go to Heaven? Here’s a quick test: Have you ever lied, stolen, or used God’s name in vain? Jesus said, “Whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” If you have done these things, God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous, adulterer at heart, and the Bible warns that one day God will punish you in a terrible place called Hell. But God is not willing that any should perish. Sinners broke God’s Law and *Jesus paid their fine. This means that God can legally dismiss their case:* *"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have you life.”* Then Jesus rose from the grave, defeating it. Today, repent and trust Jesus, and God will give you eternal life as free gift. Then read the Bible daily and obey it. God will never fail you. (living waters/ray comfort) God bless you

[@Cal0rb]

Love this guy

[@michaelsteelman4055]

Should get David Bentley Hart on there... People talk about universalism but I haven't seen a Catholic podcast have an actually proponent of it on for a debate.

[@davidfabien7220]

Excellent

[@Steven-rp8zo]

Read the book "Hostage to the Devil" by Malachai Martin. That and some personal supernatural experiences proved to me that it's all too real. "The greatest trick the devil ever played was to convince us that he does not exist"

[@foodforthought8308]

@@Unclenate1000 My friend, we are in Satan's grasp apart from Christ's salvation. Satan is the price of this world

[@trickiwoo3573]

And we need to recognize we were only ever a remnant. Viva Cristo Rey.

[@kaistigerboy]

I personally think if Jesus spoke of hell more than anyone in the entire bible it’s worth thinking about Ave Maria from Australia

[@louisaccardi2268]

The word "believes" in John 3: 16 in the Greek N.T. means more than intellectual acceptance of the teaching of Christ and the NT, but implies a dependence upon God in Christ. Further we find that it is not instant presto. The work of full salvation is in the present tense in the Greek of John 3: 16 and other N.T verses. It is than, an on going trusting and reliance upon the eternal facts of the gospel and a relationship with God through Christ. Of course, there is much more that is in the mix than that short blurb expresses.

[@TyroneBeiron]

The question I have is: does God suffer when these creatures continue to exist in utter denial and darkness? Will God withdraw the essence of His life from these spirits and thus extinguish them as a result of their own denial?

[@DensityMatrix1]

I take an orthodox view. Hell is Gods love as perceived by those who continually reject his grace.

[@dosia1boby794]

epic question-maybe is this knowing that you need to separate wicked ,evil one from the holy for the sake of holy

[@CanisDei]

Hi, Matt! Why don’t you think about starting an app?

[@Arcticroberto9376]

Absolutely not! The first homily I've heard about it was a couple weeks ago where priest talked about the particular and the final judgement. It was really moving how perfect knowledge and the face of Christ and our own free will is what traps us in damnation. The Lord is merciful and the Lord is just

[@MrFossil367ab45gfyth]

In church, I never heard a priest ever talk about Hell.

[@MrHwaynefair]

1:38 "ETERNITY" - This is the whole point - in this ONE word (translation) there lies the great historical divide. But if you live in fear of the authority of any institution you will not allow yourself to re-consider just what this can mean. No doctrine has been more abused than using the threat of eternal hell by those in authority. If, on the other hand, you are willing to be open to Truth (which ultimately is a Person: Jesus the Christ) you absolutely MUST study the Biblical word (mis-) translated "eternity": it is (Greek) "aionios" - and the root meaning is "age" (as in eon). It is flexible and inherently ambiguous. Without writing a book here - I encourage you to consider what this might mean for passages about "hell" such as those found in Matthew 25 - It would mean that the "goats" go away to an AGE of punishment. If you dig deep you will find that it was especially Augustine, who for all his brilliance, did not know Greek and misunderstood (using the Vulgate) the more accurate meaning intended (or, at the very least, defended his interpretation as dogmatically the only correct one). His views were perpetuated through the Reformation especially in Luther and Calvin - who both admired him greatly. But the Cappadocians did not understand this word (aionios) in this way - and their native tongue was Greek! They believed that hell (generally speaking) is for a time (perhaps a LONG time) of purification and correction, administered by a God who is both Love AND a Consuming Fire! Don't let the "progressive" drift in modern RC under Pope Francis take you too far in the opposite direction! Augustine's "reaction" to Pelagius took him too far - don't follow him as you seek to correct what is obviously wrong with the Church! Holy Scripture clearly promises the restoration, uniting and reconciliation of ALL things! sovereign-love.blog/2019/04/21/44/

[@MillionthUsername]

"It would mean that the "goats" go away to an AGE of punishment." It says they go into the same "fire prepared for the devil and his angels." The word translated "eternal" is a modifier of "fire." I'm not sure what an "age-fire" would be, but I think it's perfectly clear what "eternal fire" is in this context. So you think that the devil and the demons will not be punished for eternity then, but only for an age, and this is because you insist that the meaning of the Greek word here can only refer to the meaning of the root of the term and not the word as it developed and was used? The devil and his angels, then, are going to join us in heaven after the "age-fire" of hell is extinguished due to its root-word time limit as taught by you? That's quite a teaching. I wonder why this was never taught by the actual Church established by Christ?

[@MrHwaynefair]

@@MillionthUsername Like the Pharisees before you - you try to introduce a logical conundrum - evading the simple fact that aionios fundamentally means "age" - and to you the very words of our Victorious Saviour apply, "“You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God." - you only seem to "know" the fallible counsels and popes of men. I know not what God will do ultimately with the devil and his angels (beyond the lake of fire) - but I do know that He has promised to redeem ALL who are born of Adam. Your appeal to your conception of THE Church is misguided - and you deny the truth that many if not most of the Church (east and west) of the first three centuries embraced the truth of ultimate reconciliation (e.g. Gregory of Nyssa). You would do yourself a great favor if you would read Ilaria Ramelli's (a patristic scholar [and Catholic] of the first order) A Larger Hope. The threat of eternal hell is nothing less than an instrument of psychological torture still used by modern inquisitionists to impose an authority which God never grants. It eventuates in a God whose essence is NOT love - and is worse than Moloch.... such ideas are entirely unworthy of His fiery Love - and "have never entered [His] mind". The true and living God has much about Him that is hidden - but what is hidden is not dark and malevolent - not a destructive equivocation of what is revealed of Him most plainly in Christ - the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. No, what is hidden and unsearchable about Him is His Love which surpasses all we can think and imagine! (Ephesians 3:19-20)

[@raba650]

I like how saints go into this topic, like the levels of hell St. Maria Faustina talks about that Our Lord reveals to her & I think others go discuss as well, which I can’t remember at the moment.

[@JamesRendek]

Well yeah, unending torment now but what about hell?

[@claudiozanella256]

Not at all. The pope says that everyone will be saved, a teaching opposite to Jesus' word. The pope will be held accountable for that.

[@erinerickson4125]

All kidding aside. Hell is the center of the earth when your soul is too laden with guilt and pain and sinks like a stone in water after the moment of death. Now to save the Soul that is stuck in Hades. That is the 12th feet of Heracles(not Hercules). That is something else entirely that happens along with the defeat of ignorant Aristotelian Beast.

[@chrisjones-rd8it]

Considering Jesus talked more about Hell then Heaven...the answer is clearly NO!! He is not kidding when he compares the paths and the gates and that He alone is the doorway...No many people will go to hell because they relied on the readings and the homilies as if thats it....No and I believe God will ask the Bishops and Priests why ...He doesnt wait or deabte the answer. .the judgements are not counseling sessions. ..time stands still but it will be a microsecond and eternity at the same time. ..NO ..the answer is NO...God is Love and is patient and merciful but to the Shepards He has already said Woe. ...I Pray I wrong....but Jesus is not a liar. ...we are all individually responsible for our soul...keep the faith and focus your plowing at the end of the row. .and pray continously to Our Lord Jesus the doorway ....to just go to church and listen to liturgical schedule is not sufficient. ..if it were the churches would be full...but schedule is empty and thus so are the pews. ..Jesus is coming to strike terror in the heart of evil. ..all evil...not some evil...He is coming to rule with an iron rod..not a wooden rod of the shepard who has his rod and staff..when He comes the flock is secure...NO...most people are already in hell...they just know it...Respect God, Love HIM..and love one another for the answer to Cain is yes....everything else is folly....HOLY HOLY HOLY is Our Lord

[@Catholicity-uw2yb]

POPE JOHN PAUL II: Can God, who loves man so much, permit the man who rejects him to be condemned to eternal torment? The silence of the church is, therefore, the only appropriate position for Christian faith. Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt. 26:24) his words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation.

[@farmersmith7057]

The wages of sin are death. Sin dies when you die. The rich man in Luke 16 was in Hades, not “hell” as no man has ascended to heaven nor descended to “hell” before Judgement. Hades itself is thrown into the lake of fire (the lake of fire is a metaphor for destruction). The second death after Judgement. In summary, according to the Bible, there is no “hell”. Only dust to dust, then the just and unjust resurrected as judged, some will live on in Christ’s Reign, the rest will not (be dead, the second death). 1st John 4:8…God is Love.

[@Mrm1985100]

Yup, this is the biblical view. hell is destruction and perishing

[@Joetheshow445]

I do know that the Church once taught that certain people in hell are hung by their eyebrows over an open flame while worms eat out their stomachs

[@chrispy4636]

Is that from Dante's Inferno?

[@johnpglackin345]

Not really

[@MattisWell.20]

At the end of the day, all that hell is, is resisting the Love of God that we can never escape.

[@JonWRowe]

David Bentley Hart has demonstrated universalism is true. Or at least he gives a good argument/interpretation of the texts from the original languages, for it.

[@austinjoseph8849]

He didn't answer your question. Even if I believe in Christ and try my best to live a good life, there is no assurance of salvation.

[@azelkhntr4992]

1/3rd. of the angels are in Hell. Imagine condemning 1/3rd. of your children to damnation?

[@kevinmckay6815]

With our finite human life span, being born with original sin and evil confronting us every second of our lives we dont have a chance. Why would God send our souls to Hell for eternity for human mistakes?

[@Mrm1985100]

Hell is actually destruction. The wicked will perish and disappear.

[@windsongshf]

I just don't get it. Why would a father intentionally let his kid be sacrificed?

[@matthewfield3452]

That’s the point. It was done out of love for His creation - humans.

[@UltraAar]

purgatory sounds like hell

[@chrispy4636]

I've heard it said that it's on the same thermostat as hell but the difference is it isn't eternal. The bliss of heaven is worth the pain.

[@UltraAar]

@@chrispy4636 Sounds incredibly unbiblical. Did Jesus die for nothing? One earns their way to heaven? How can you ever be good enough

[@neroresurrected]

@@UltraAar that’s because it’s not meant to be explained by the Bible exclusive per say. Although it can and certainly has for Catholics. Jesus didn’t die for nothing obviously, however as it said in the gospels one must follow God and walk in his ways willingly, and yes one does earn their way to Heaven as salvation is not guaranteed for Catholics. And yes people have proven to be that good enough, they’re called Saints. For Catholics our tradition includes biblical teaching but it doesn’t “only” contain that that’s the main difference between us Catholics and the Protestants. The magisterium/dogma of the church, the Bible and catechism of the church and canon law it all work’s organically as one wholistic system designed by God the father over a 2,000 year period as the instruction manual for Catholics in this world. Regarding purgatory itself, a person can live as most do a sinful life but not repent for their own self acknowledged wrong doings and in doing so you would serve your penance in purgatory as opposed to hell. It’s a tough place full of hardship, toil, and pain but it is not eternal. It is just the place you go to pay your penance for an unrepented life lived in full consciousness in this world if that makes sense. Good people who lived an unrepented life go there. Hell is the destination of people who consciously and continuously sin in this life don’t repent for their sins and are actually good with making those choices which demonstrates a total lack of empathy on the part of that person, which top psychological research in this area today equates a lack of empathy to an evil action or person interestingly enough. This was the case during psycho social evaluations that were done on captured nazis during the Nuremberg trials in 1946 I believe. Lastly, God doesn’t send you to purgatory or hell or even heaven, you do per the life choices you elected in this life.

[@elizabethdominis730]

What happens to the guardian angel of the person that goes to hell? I heard if you go to purgatory, your angels goes there too,

[@chosenskeptic5319]

🤔 the world was never fallen. For sin is the transgression against the Mosaic Law Covenant, not from Adam eating a forbidden fruit 🍎. Paul commits heresy against the Old Testament “that all have sinned due to Adam. Nowhere in the Old Testament did God declare that Adam sinned 😮😮😮. Jesus died at the judgement seat of the cross, and God blotted out the law. No law, no sin. Who you going to believe, God or Paul the lair.

[@CheddarBayBaby]

If God could have ‘done it another way’ as Ralph says, why not just save everyone? Seems like God is playing games with peoples eternal happiness 🤔

[@aaronchandler2380]

I don’t think they do. I mean with extraordinary claims like a hell, you would think it would have extraordinary evidence of its existence. God will send you to hell for worshiping the wrong god. Amazing how do you know your god is the real god? So many to pick from.

[@bun197]

We are already in hell at this point so there's no need to discuss it as a possibility in the next life

[@chrispy4636]

Even if there's a drop of good here that is proof enough that there is hope yet. Life is difficult, people die, we are horrible to each other. However, none of these things are final and every ache of our hearts, minds and bodies is worth suffering for the joys of heaven.

[@metalheadhippie8738]

I want a genuine answer. How is this God loving? A God that would eternally torment us? A God, that because one of our distant ancestors sinned would damn us? A God that would allow native Americans and those alike to not partake in the sacramental life for over a thousand years? A God who allows children to be born with no chance of salvation every day? A God who has apparently damned many of my friends and family? A God who would abandon us and then judge us for decisions made without his direct guidance? A God that would allow pedophiles and evil people into his church but then damn those who fled this evil? A God who apparently died for us but won't forgive us after we die for some reason? I'm sure I could continue, but please give me an answer!

[@veronica8061]

Hi M Hippe, You raise thoughtful questions in this and the other comment. I am not fit to answer any of them my friend, but be encouraged please. God created us all out if love. As you mention, he sent his son to redeem us from sin. His son did not come to call the righteous, but sinners. In Matthews gospel Jesus says, it is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. Surely Jesus wants to heal me, you, your friends from the brokenness of sin. He doesn't want us damned, but to live for eternity in heaven. Fr Jonathon Meyer, All Saints Parish in Guilford Indiana is very good at explaining things in his homily, they are streamed online. I live two states away, but catch his Mass and homily when I can. Another avenue into the understanding of God's heart is the Bible in a Year audio podcast with Fr Mike Schmitz. The readings/books are chronologically instead of how the Bible is normally formatted, after the readings, Fr Mike expands on what the readings mean, so we can understand the story of salvation better. I hope these sources may be beneficial to you. We are wanderers in this journey together. I promise to pray for you and the people you love and for their intentions. God Bless!

[@mariemunzar6474]

God wouldn't send you to Hell unless you really deserved it. We all technically deserve Hell as we are all sinners, but God sent Jesus Christ his only Son to die for us on the cross so that if we believe in him, we can go to Heaven and be with him forever. No unclean thing can be in Heaven, God is perfect. So Jesus sacrificed himself for us. He laid his life down for us and died in a most brutal manner. Hell is for people who have chosen to reject God and have chosen to consciously sin against God. God offers us our entire lives to repent of our wrongs, but if we do not repent we can't go to Heaven to be with God. The fact that Jesus died for us by crucifixion of all ways is a sign of God's great love; it is clear from Jesus' sacrifice on the cross that God does not want anyone in Hell. Each person has free will, if anyone is in Hell it is only by that person's free choice from the life they lived. For that reason, Hell is not unjust. Nor is it unloving for Hell to exist, if anything the concept of Hell can motivate people to seek out God even more. But more than that, God cannot stand sin or the stain of sin. God loves only what is good. And Heaven would not be a complete paradise if any evil entered into Heaven. It wouldn't actually be Heaven if just anyone could enter.

[@dzi6278]

@@mariemunzar6474 I believe in Him, but to my limited mind it does seem that it would be better if humans were not created at all. Jesus would not have to save us and there would not be so many souls suffering for eternity.

[@mariemunzar6474]

@@dzi6278 well then in that case you wouldn't exist either. Be thankful for the gift of life.

[@dzi6278]

@@mariemunzar6474 i don't see anything bad with not existing, surely preferable than hell. My life is good, but i am not that attached to it to consider it worth the risk of eternal suffering. If i could choose to never have existed I would not mind in the slightest. What i am thankful for is how good my life has been. That i haven't seen famine or poverty nor violence. I am thankful for that. But beeing alive itself can be more a curse than a blessing in specific circumstances.

[@maureen-paulbarnes-vonkulm480]

I am a general generic Christian, not an orthodox anything. I think you have a rather poor and harmful understanding of hell and being saved. Eternal hell and torment is a nonsense made to frighten the naive and poorly educated into submission to the church and its impoverished idea of God that it pushes. Swedenborg provides a much more complete understanding of these topics. It is said - you say - that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son ... well if it’s that important would he not allow for the fact that we are all in different spiritual places and many simply won’t be able to believe. They may reject the idea of God and his mercy. But does that condemn one to eternal hell? No! Would an Aba or parent warn his child not to play in the streets, but if it ignores him, he lets it be killed by traffic? No Human would do that so God will protect much more irrespective of belief.

[@frankwhelan1715]

What has eternal torment to do with any of this? Ok if you can't believe claims in an ancient,human written book, alright don't let us into heaven ,(if it exists) but everlasting torture ? what kind of people find that Ok(even for the worst kind of humans, punishment is one thing, but to have it NEVER ending is evil )

[@metalheadhippie8738]

Ikr, it's as if these people are psychopaths. We're talking about what sounds like the majority of people being banished to eternal torment. And this is supposed to be a loving God...

[@dzi6278]

@@metalheadhippie8738 It's more about majority of people choosing to go to eternal torment not being banished to it. If I know the road leads to place X and I drive on that road I will go to X. If I know fornication leads to hell and I choose to do it, I go to hell. Its free will and it is fair. We have all the information in commandments. But somehow it's so hard to just not do what I know leads to hell :( Jesus did say that for some people it would be better if they had never been born. Though, if an animal is sick and suffers , sometimes people kill it to free it from suffering; Could God just stop the existence of the souls that have gone all the way to hell? That would sound really merciful to me

[@metalheadhippie8738]

@@dzi6278 I could understand God sending people to hell if hell was more like purgatory. A temporary state meant to purify one of sin. But for it to be eternal conscious torment?!? Like let's say hypothetically my wife cheats on me, and in response I kidnap her and spend my days beating her and waterboarding her. Obviously I would be angry with her, but to do that to her?!?! It would be evil right?!? This is essentially what God is doing. Jesus says how much more does your father in heaven love you compared to your real father. Yet, my real father no matter what I did would never endlessly torture me. Like why is it dogma that once you're in hell you can't get out?!? If one is repentant then why would God except his repentance in life but not in death. Apparently the God of the afterlife is not the same God as the God of the living.

[@dzi6278]

@@metalheadhippie8738 Again, it is not God sending people to hell or God torturing, as I understand, it its person choosing to go away from God and beeing seperated from Him is torturous, God is life so everyone alive is joined to Him in a way. It does sound harsh that there is no way back and that its not just death, its torturous existence for ever. I am on the look out for answers as well...

[@metalheadhippie8738]

@@dzi6278 I respect that you at least admit it sounds cruel. I guess what I'm trying to get across is that no one in their right mind could reject God. It would be the equivalent of a depressed person continuing to cut themselves for eternity. We know that this person is depressed because of trauma or environment or genetic factors, but not because they choose to be. In other words they were set up to fail. I believe that God has the power to heal whatever caused this person be in this state of mind. He can go to the root of why they continue to sin and heal them. God knows axactly when and why you rejected him, and he would know exactly what to say or do to make you except him. I would point you to David Bentley Hart (an eastern orthodox theologian). He has a book that dramatically changed my view of hell. Apparently for the early Christian such as st Gregory of Nyssa hell and pergatory we're one and the same. In their theology God will eventually destroy all remnants of sin resulting in the theosis of all his children. This is obviously a much more logical and coherent theology then that Catholic theology that developed much later. We have to remember that the early church fathers spoke Greek so all the passages that supposedly speak of eternal damnation in the bible really do no such thing. The books called That All Shall Be Saved.

[@racoon251]

you have to be crazy to believe in hell

[@metalheadhippie8738]

So a "loving God" separated himself from me because one of my ancestors sinned, and now if I dare die without coming to the Catholic church I burn in hell forever... Hmmm... This God doesn't sound so loving. And apparently he sent his son (second person of the Trinity) to die as a debt to himself for the sins of his children. Wait... So God himself died as a debt to himself? Why wouldn't God ya know being God and all just forgive the debt... And worse still, God being a transcendent being and having freely creating the world knowing it's outcome from the beginning, created a world on which probably the vast majority of it's populace would end up in this place of conscious torment. And yet he still went through with his creation anyway. And apparently for some arbitrary reason when we die, that's it, can't go back and change things, you either make it to hell or heaven. God won't except your repentance after you cross that barrier for some reason. This is absolutely evil, but you're too cought up in dogma to see it.

[@metalheadhippie8738]

@Caratacus I understand that, I understand that evil is a deprivation rather than something God created. Yet still if we fall victim to this deprivation, if we are corrupted by it, then our father in heaven gives up on us and allows us to suffer eternally. If God can heal the sins of those meant for heaven in pergatory then why does he chose not to heal the sins of those meant for hell? Let's look at someone like Hitler for example, because this would steel man your case. Either he went through some terrible trauma, or he was born with a moral deficiency that allowed for him to kill millions without remorse. Either way he was deprived of his moral sensibilities because neither you or I could commit such acts. Does this finite act of sin in which he was set up to fail deserve an eternal infinite punishment? In a way we're all set up to fail, and if we do a supposedly merciful God allows us to suffer eternally. Also if creation was a free choice for God, and he knew that at the end of his creation billions of his children would be suffering the fires of hell forever and he chose to continue with this creation anyway, then I can't help but view this God as evil.

[@metalheadhippie8738]

@Caratacus Are you Catholic? I respect this understanding of hell even though I disagree with it. I agree that a lot of the imagery serves as a warning, meant to strike fear into those who transgress against God. But I do know that the valley of Gehenna in the context of the rabbinic Judaism of the time could mean either a pergatory state or a state in which you are ultimately destroyed. It's seems the rabbis of the time thought that those who could not be ultimately purified would be destroyed. I can except this interpretation, but certainly not the interpretation of the west that came much later in which it's a place of eternal suffering. The word eonian that is translated to eternity can also be translated to "for a time" or "for an age" We really cannot be fully sure that Jesus is referring to a purgatory state or a state of ultimate destruction. But we can be hopeful because the word used in the new testament for destruction doesn't necessarily mean annihilation. It can have a plethora of meanings. I think perhaps the greatest proof of the non-existence of a western version of hell is the lack of this idea in the old testament as a whole. And the imagery of a universal restoration and forgiveness that we see in its place. The Hebrew word Sheol really just means realm of the dead. After all we see a God of forgiveness and righteous justice throughout the bible. A God who even when his people reject him directly continues in pursuit of them regardless. Who gives them chance after chance and who even gives a depiction of the ultimate final destruction of death and sin in the final atonement. As for me I believe in the eschatology of st Gregory of Nyssa.