Does This Argument Disprove the Trinity?

[@JohnQPublic11]

Excellent stuff.

[@johngurung5471]

You Are 100% Right Brother

[@ArtorGrael]

He is 100% right and 100% man.

[@shanederry2691]

Great videos, my brother. God bless you.

[@MarvelNot]

Amen. Jesus HAS a God. That simple sentence destroys the trinity lie. Jesus affirms that he has a God (John 20:17, Rev. 3:12, etc. - note, these affirmations occurred _after_ his resurrection.) and calls his God "the only true God" in John 17:3. Paul makes it clear that Jesus _has_ a God and that Jesus and God are distinct person in all his epistles. A few examples would be Rom. 15:6, 1 Cor. 3:23, 1 Cor. 11:3, 2 Cor. 1:3, 11:31, Eph. 1:3, 1:17, Col. 1:3). Paul also says: "For us, there is one God: the Father..." - 1 Cor. 8:6 "...there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." - 1 Tim. 2:5 Trinitarians consistently use unbiblical language (like "essence" as Johnny describes in this video and other phrases like "the godman" or "the dual natures of Christ," etc.) to describe the unbiblical trinity (which makes perfect sense). This is because they _must_ use eisegeses (which is a faulty hermeneutic that they, themselves, concur that no one should use) to come to their unbiblical conclusions. There is no place in Scripture where it clearly states anything about a triune God, and yet they insist on reading that idea into the text. This indicates that they are concerned with upholding what other people declare and not what Scripture declares. Jesus Christ did not teach a triune god. He taught that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is his God.

[@realdealholyfield-dx3bf]

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are what make the Godhead.

[@jomerorobia4140]

​@@realdealholyfield-dx3bfTrinity is a simple but effective tactic of Satan to deny or disobey the teaching of Jesus about his Father is the only true God.

[@thetruth871]

do you know what Logos means, it means this? And when the Logos took on flesh and lived among us, he did not cease being God's Logos and, therefore, still eternally God. Before the incarnation, the Logos did not have a body, "but for our sake became man." Thus, in his incarnation, the Logos became Jesus, the God-Man. God bless

[@jomerorobia4140]

@@thetruth871 you don't understand the "Word" he is Jesus. That does not mean the "Word" is the word of God, that out in the mouth of God. You don't understand the word of God. Like the writer said. The Word was with God. The writer not says The Word of God. But the Word was with God. You don't know what is the difference? Let's make simple. Jesus was with God. Not Jesus of God. Now. Do you think when Jesus said his Father is the only true God, it is a lie? No it is true. Because Jesus is the truth. But you don't believe him. But you said you believe him. Who is the liar?

[@mikmark100]

LBP Aramaic Of The Peshitta: Lamsa, 1933 - LBP John 1:1: "THE Word was in the beginning, and that very Word was with God, and God was that Word." God (Father was that Word) That is the correct translation and no ASV American Standard Version Jhn 1:1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." That's a bad translation from Greek BIB'16 Berean Interlinear Bible (BIB) John 1:1: "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν, καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος." καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος." and God was the Word."

[@mdabdulawal4305]

Trinity is very complex for human thinking... This is not mentioned in Bible. It is a mixture of pope

[@JudeOne3Four]

It is so complex that they call it a mystery. But than they turn around and make videos about the trinity explained. 🤦🏽

[@Truth-f2q]

@@JudeOne3Four Trinity is a wicked heresy.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@Truth-f2q Yes, indeed. Trinitarians are under a spell, only prayer can help them

[@socketman]

Yeah, Trinitarianism becomes very hard once you have to start justifying things Biblically

[@ken440]

@@socketman thats why they box themselves in with isolated proof texts.

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

With kindness, I disagree. 😢

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@MrsJax-rc6jx Why do you disagree? The Apostles and disciples did not use the writings of pagan philosophers but their own Scriptures. (Acts 17:11)

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@JudeOne3Four he erased all my comments. Its okay. As long as we believe in Jesus as the Messiah and don't deny him.

[@thecapitalg]

​@@MrsJax-rc6jxI don't think he deleted your comments (maybe). KZbin has a really weird knack with removing tons of comments, this has happened to me too but in other channels.

[@chronic_daydreamer]

You would also expect if the Trinity were true that there would be far more mentions of the Holy Spirit in relation to the Father and the Son, but instead we have far, far more mentions of only the Father and the Son than we have mentions of all three, and certainly zero scriptures that ever indicate the notion of three in one. It’s only ever One. Consistently. That’s why they’ve always had to work so hard to jump through hoops to try and rationalise three in one. If it were three in one, you’d think that this concept would also be mentioned throughout the entirety of the scriptures, but we don’t see it even once (except in a single spurious text found in the KJV that is not in any of the oldest manuscripts).

[@thetruth871]

dear brother do you know why the Trinity wasn't mentioned in the old manuscripts much? it's because Jesus wasn't on earth around that time. And when Jesus come onto the seen everything was reviled, including Salvation and Trinity. God bless

[@leagreenall5972]

There is also this argument based on the verse you showed John 20:17; God does not have a God? Jesus has a God Therefore Jesus is not God

[@biblicalunitarian]

Yep I might make a video on this. It really hammers home the idea of there being only ONE God.

[@leagreenall5972]

@@biblicalunitarian There is also this argument based on 1 Corinthians 11:3; "But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ." There is no one that is head of God God is the head of Christ Therefore Christ is not God.

[@leagreenall5972]

@@biblicalunitarian There is also this argument based on Matthew 24:36; "“But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone." God knows everything Jesus does not know everything Therefore Jesus is not God

[@leagreenall5972]

@@biblicalunitarian Another REALLY simple irrefutable exegetical argument; God can not die Jesus died Therefore Jesus is not God

[@thetruth871]

@@leagreenall5972 you want to bet? Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. So you see Jesus knows when he is coming back. Jesus knows everything brother, because He is God

[@gabakusa]

well said

[@toefoneman]

If this belief was more mainstream i'd be going to church twice a week minimum!

[@biblicalunitarian]

Please check out and see if there are any churches near you here: www.unitarianchristianalliance.org/group-directory/ Also, Spirit & Truth has online fellowships that meet weekly: spiritandtruthonline.org/virtual-groups/

[@WARLORDDOM]

The problem is that the movement is hijacked by unitarian universalists

[@WARLORDDOM]

And universalism is not a biblical teaching

[@toefoneman]

@@WARLORDDOM nor is hell yet tarturus is

[@WARLORDDOM]

@@toefoneman ahm What ??? You have verses proving eternal punishment

[@InvestigadorTJ]

JW here we are happy you are presenting excellent theological arguments against the trinity!

[@InvestigadorTJ]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings good question I’m sure they’ve done pamphlets on the subject I haven’t seen one recently but we have the WatchTower library with a large list of publications that were published a long time ago and up to many recent ones of today . They don’t shy away from the question as it’s part of the Witness beliefs. witness present various lines of reasoning that Jesus is Michael and it might sound foreign but the teaching is not unique to JWs. -We find that many denominations consider Jesus to be, “the angel of the Lord”. - we find that the founder of Calvinism: John Calvin believed and reach to the same conclusion that Jesus is Michael - there were others that believed it too -there is a 2nd century text describing Jesus as a Archangel. -Origin consider by many to be an apologist and a church father also taught that Jesus is an angel. on a side note this teaching isn’t quite emphasized as much as other but I would say try to open yourself to various resources to see how others believed.. you see your surroundings today and you don’t find others having the same conclusion, that might be because the old power of the church co-joint with Rome had a great influence in holding and stopping others from diverting from the official teachings. In many cases persecuting those that believed dif and killing them. How different would Christian faith be if Rome didn’t take such action and accepted diversity in Christian thought? And also another question if Jesus is found to be an angel and there is support from many resources.. can that extend itself to the conclusion that This angel is Michael… If your interested in a few resources that touch on Michael the archangel and that weird teaching on him being Jesus: check out: -Historical and biblical views of Christ as an angel: www.jehovah.to/exe/general/angel.htm Jesus michael the archangel?: www.jehovah.to/exe/general/archangel.htm

[@InvestigadorTJ]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings that’s ok I realize the comment I wrote was deleted I don’t see it here not more. Good day to you

[@JudeOne3Four]

JW's also have a false jesus. I do not understand people.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings Amen.

[@JudeOne3Four]

@chriscuomo9334 Correct and that's why they are a cult. A Cult that came out the SDA Cult. Both of them are build on Freemasonry.

[@Andy-u9x]

Our Father who is heaven Hallowed be your name Your kingdom your will be done Gives us this day our daily bread Forgive us our debts As we forgive those who are indebted to us Let us not be lead into temptation But deliver us from all evil For your kingdom is the power and glory FOREVER! This is Yeshua prayer.... Eh God is much more then anything we can imagine the Father even kind of dumb it down for Moses saying I AM that I AM... the Father created existence he is existence. he is deep vast very deep very vast he is ETERNAL! and if we are accounted worthy Yeshua will have all of eternity to teach us that...

[@MrClone555]

It makes absolute sense to me that Jesus is literally the son of God. I wish I could find a Christian church that teaches this.

[@biblicalunitarian]

Check out this page to see if there is one near you - www.unitarianchristianalliance.org/group-directory/ Also, Spirit & Truth has online fellowships that meet weekly - spiritandtruthonline.org/virtual-groups/

[@franklicary3407]

Yes. Good logic. 1 True major premise. 2 True minor premise. 3 Valid logical conclusion

[@ken440]

morning Frank. Just waking up here saturday 7:30 am. i agree with you bro.

[@ArtorGrael]

You obviously just dont understand the Trinity. (pretending to be a trinitarian)

[@ken440]

@@ArtorGrael who? i dont see anyone here pretending to be a trinitarian! how can anyone understand the trinity?

[@chronic_daydreamer]

@@ken440No-one can understand the Trinity. It breaks all logic, and that’s why they’re forced to rely on the poor excuse that it’s a “mystery.” Because no scripture supports the notion. That’s why the church has resorted to calling it a mystery. Meanwhile, we are told that eternal life relies on having accurate knowledge of the Father and Jesus Christ. Go figure!

[@liberatedspirit3554]

@@ArtorGrael That's a pretty accurate comeback ROFL

[@BramptonAnglican]

Interesting view

[@1gtrix584]

Since God is one it makes sense why his people received one spirit, the spirit of God.

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

the Bible, Jesus says "I and the Father are one" in John 10:30, which is part of a passage that appears in the New International Version of the Bible in John 10:30-38. This statement was bold and audacious, and it reveals much about who Jesus is. Jesus claimed to be equal to God in the following ways: He was not just a messenger or prophet of God, but of equal power with God. He claimed preexistence in the Father's presence. He existed from eternity past. He lived in perfect oneness with the Father. * Jesus also says "I am in the Father, and the Father in me" in John 14:10-12. In this passage, Jesus says, "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves".

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings thank you for responding about the Trinity. You recognize that Jesus is the spoken Word of God that created the world. Then God made His spoken Word into flesh and that God sent His Spirit to Jesus. Jesus breathed His spirit (whom He called the Helper) on the disciples who received the Spirit's power to forgive sins, cast out demons, and heal people. Jesus is not only our brother because of His humanity, but also our Father because He was/is God. If you do not believe in the Trinity, I must pray for you all. The only sin that is unforgiveable is bladphemy of the Holy Spirit, in which I hope that your relationship with God will reveal the truth so you won't be judged when Jesus comes again❣️PRAISE BE TO GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON, AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT! FOREVER AND EVER! AMEN!

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@ThePeaceofWildThingslhjDefinitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more adjective 1. being the same in quantity, size, degree, or value. "add equal amounts of water and flour" Similar: identical uniform alike like the same one and the same equivalent indistinguishable matching twin comparable similar corresponding correspondent commensurate amounting proportionate tantamount the same as commensurate with on a par with Opposite: unequal different more than less than 2. having the ability or resources to meet (a challenge). "the players proved equal to the task" Similar: capable of fit for up to good/strong enough for adequate for sufficient for ready for suitable for suited to appropriate for up to scratch having what it takes noun a person or thing considered to be the same as another in status or quality. When we receive the Holy Spirit, God lives in us, hence the Trinity. The Spirit of God the Father.

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings yikes. I will pray for you

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings I can say the same to and about you. It would help me understand your thinking if you could reveal to me who you worship with, like what church you belong to.

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

Lots of things disprove the trinity. The trinity is not biblical.

[@realdealholyfield-dx3bf]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 Was Jesus created or from eternity with the Father?

[@MichaelTheophilus906]

@@realdealholyfield-dx3bf Matt 1:18-21, Luke 1:30-35, Luke 2:4-7

[@mikmark100]

​@@realdealholyfield-dx3bf Jesus was not created, but was begotten by God the Father and his Holy Spirit through Mary. He never existed physically before and was foretold by God the Father to appear at the end of time. KJ2 King James 2000 1Pet 1:20: "Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,"

[@realdealholyfield-dx3bf]

@@mikmark100 I get He was prophesied before He came but I guess I should ask than was Jesus already at the right hand of God before He was begotten?

[@mikmark100]

@@realdealholyfield-dx3bf He wasn't. If he was, he would surely tell us.

[@josiahjesse917]

Philipains 2:6-8 Though he was God,[a] he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to. 7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges[b]; he took the humble position of a slave[c] and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form,[d] 8 he humbled himself in obedience to God and died a criminal’s death on a cross

[@biblicalunitarian]

The Greek does not say, "though he was God" this is a big mistranslation. The word "morphe" is present in the Greek. A better translation is "though he was in the form of God/a god". Also in your translation "as something to cling to" makes it sound as if equality with God was something Jesus already possessed, however, the greek word "harpazo" refers to something that you do not possess, a prize that can be won, or a bounty that can be stolen. Please look this up in Lexicons if you do not believe me. Jesus did not already possess equality with God, it was something that he didn't consider "taking". Please see - www.revisedenglishversion.com/phil/2/6

[@marcus.H]

​@@biblicalunitariangood point. How do teachers of scripture end up at these positions? it almost brings me to tears to imagine how deeply bad the translators are who deliberately misrepresent the Greek in their English translations to mislead the reader. Imagine reaching judgement day, knowing you followed the bible fully, only to be told "that translation was misrepresenting the Greek and most people are wrong"

[@biblicalunitarian]

@@marcus.H Yep, great question, I think they end up at these positions mainly through the lens of tradition. If you believe in the Trinity you are going to want to find it in the scriptures and maybe try to add it in where it isn't. I don't think the translators of the NLT were deliberately trying to deceive, they were just doing too much interpretation in their translation. Yep, that's why the Translators have such an important job, somebody can be a great interpreter but if they are working with a bad translation, they may be led astray. I also think God has grace for those who didn't know any better. However, I think the modern evangelical church puts way too much emphasis on 'what the pastor thinks' which leads to people not looking into things for themselves.

[@marcus.H]

@@biblicalunitarian what must a person do to be saved? Is it necessary to know the right God as Jesus said at John 17:3? And the one he sent? Given that most nominal trinitarians don't understand their God, where do we draw the line?

[@biblicalunitarian]

I think all you need to know to be saved is 1. That Jesus is Lord (which means he is your master) 2. That God raised him from the dead (Rom. 10:9). I think Trinitarians have that, and I think I had that as a Trinitarian. However, I do think it is a serious error. Yea, the tricky part is we don't have to know every single fact about God and Jesus to be saved, because no one would believe that if you thought Jesus had blonde hair, you would not be saved, that is ridiculous. So there has to be a set of essential facts, and I think that is much smaller than we want to think. The thief on the cross, the blind beggars, and many others had very little information or doctrine about Jesus, yet they showed saving faith.

[@JosephSmith-ph4xr]

Is there just one God ? In the Bible, the term 'God' has a range of meanings and the term is applied to Moses; Hebrew Kings; Judges, angels - even the devil.

[@biblicalunitarian]

Yes, there are many "gods and many lords" but for us there is one God, the Father... (1 Cor. 8:5-6). So, yes many different things can be called "gods" but there is one True God (John 17:3).

[@JosephSmith-ph4xr]

@@biblicalunitarian : Indeed: YHWH.

[@KamruFaranChristian]

How do I become a Unitarian christian religion

[@biblicalunitarian]

If you're asking how to find a Unitarian church, visit this page - www.unitarianchristianalliance.org/group-directory/ If you're asking how to become a Christian, "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." (Rom. 10:9). Simply trust in Christ's sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins, and follow him.

[@JudeOne3Four]

Greetings, since you have the Biblical view of God and His Messiah than is salvation easy. If a person believes the Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) with all his heart (Acts 8:26-38, Rom 10:8-10), that person is saved, born again (John 3:1-6) Sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph 1:13-14) and *has* eternal life on that very moment. 1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of *the Son of God;* that ye may KNOW that ye HAVE eternal life, and that ye may *believe* on the name of the Son of God. The Gospel (Good News) is very simple. It's the lost and confused who pervert the simplicity in Christ (2 Cor 11:3). You don't have to be a theologian (Acts 4:13) to understand God's plan for salvation (1 Cor 2:1). Remission of sins means, forgiveness of sins! God forgives sin on the basis of Christ His sacrifice on the cross (Rom 3:24-25). Is that good news or not? Yes, indeed, our filthy rags (works) are just that (Isaiah 64:6). Remission only comes by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9). Acts 10:43 'To him gave *all the prophets* witness, that through his name WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH *in him* SHALL receive remission of sins (Genesis 4:26). Nobody is worthy of eternal life, it is is a FREE GIFT (Rom 6:23) based on Christ's sacrifice on the cross (Romans 5:9-10), that can not be lost (Romans 11:29). Bless

[@Truth-f2q]

@@JudeOne3Four Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and (((((not by faith only)))). James 2:24,,,,,,, James 2:26 “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”

[@Truth-f2q]

@@JudeOne3Four Romans 2:13 “(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.”

[@Truth-f2q]

@@JudeOne3Four Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and (((((not by faith only)))). James 2:24

[@KamruFaranChristian]

Right

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

Well, there is actually 7 spirits of God. We only know 3: Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Here is the proof: The seven spirits of God are mentioned in the book of Revelation in multiple verses, including: Revelation 1:4 The opening lines of John's vision mention the seven spirits Revelation 3:1 Jesus's message to Sardis mentions "the one who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars" Revelation 4:5 The throne-room scene mentions "seven fiery torches burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God" Revelation 5:6 The throne-room scene mentions "a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth"

[@ken440]

could be those "seven spirits" are not parts of God, but are seven angelic beings who work close to Gods throne, a bit like the 24 elders who keep faceplanting on the crystal floor.

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@ken440 I guess we will know when we get there. I am so excited to see Jesus and heaven. I have not researched the 7 spirits yet. I can't find any sermons or teachings on it. Its funny bc I have read my Bible over and over and everytime I am revealed something new! Just recently I reread Revelations and the 7 spirits stopped me in my tracks. I never paid too much attention to it before.

[@ken440]

@@MrsJax-rc6jx keep seeking. blessings.

[@MrsJax-rc6jx]

@@MichaelTheophilus906 😅🤣😂

[@realdealholyfield-dx3bf]

What about scripture like this where it seems to say Jesus and God are the same ? 2 peter 2:1, "Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:" John 20:28, "Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” Titus 2:13, "While we look for the blessed hope and the revelation of the glory of The Great God and Our Lifegiver, Yeshua The Messiah," If Jesus wasn't God why then did the angel appear to Joseph and Mary to tell them their child was in fact a Spirit (God) born child and to call His name Immanuel (God with us)? Jesus being born of Spirit(God), and if God is Spirit, doesn't that in this specific scenario/ situation is why Jesus is referred to as Son of God because He was literally from God (eternal) not just created? Jesus said His Kingdom is from above, He said He Himself was from above, doesn't that prove the eternal life(Spirit) of Jesus before the carnal (Physical) created Jesus? Jesus physically is different from the nature of God but Spiritually/internally was God(Spirit) right? If there is only One God and One God who saves and One God who is and was and is to come,Who is Jesus then just another prophet filled with the Spirit? the Jewish people thought He was one of the old prophets (Jeremiah/ Isaiah/Elijah/ John the Baptist) but only Peter confessed and mentioned correctly who Jesus was in 1 John 4:2, " By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God". Which correlates with what Apostles taught about who Jesus was, 1 Timothy 3:16, "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

[@ken440]

did you notice all the conjunctions in your examples.?? The children looked up the chimney early christmas morning, hoping to see Santa AND Rudolph. Do you expect small children to believe father christmas and his reindeer to be the same being? no they dont care about granville sharpe.

[@realdealholyfield-dx3bf]

@@ken440 ..? God the Father has a special relationship with Jesus the Son of God. A relationship that did not start in His physical appearance (birth) but His eternal relationship with the Father from eternity past (John 17: 5). In other words Jesus shares this unique closeness/bond that no other being on earth or heaven shares with the Father because Jesus was there from the beginning with the Father(John 1:1). Jesus always pointed this out which is why the Jews always said He was committing blasphemy (John 10:30/ 8: 58). This correlation between the Two is truly one of a kind that must not be overlooked if we are to truly stand by Biblical teachings and doctrine. Jesus always said His will is to do the Fathers will, His words are the Fathers Words, His works are the Fathers Works, and saying to those who couldn't comprehend it, "I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord but He sent Me. Why do you not understand what I say?". To strengthen the case of this kinship with God the Father and Jesus, Christ said, "For the Father loves the Son and shows Him all that He is doing. And greater works than these he will show him so that you may marvel". Jesus is in constant connection with the Father to the point He mimics the Father. Not even the angels in heaven are known for sharing this type of relationship & Glory & insight with the Father(Hebrews 1:5-13). Another example is that In the Old Testament Prophets never said, "listen to my words", they always said, "hear the word of the Lord". Jesus on the other hand said, "I say to you", "follow Me", "therefore i tell you", "my word", "for I came not to call the righteous but sinners ", "I am the way the truth and the life", "I am the good shepherd i know my own amd my own know Me". All of this reveals Jesus Deity, His equality with the Father, His identity as the second person of the triune God (Colossians 2:9).

[@ken440]

@@bcamp4light241 because David names Solomon as his successor? You people are unbelievable.

[@ken440]

@@bcamp4light241 so if every word that comes from YHWH is true and faithful, and i agree with you, then you will agree that Gen3:15 and Deut18:18, are trustworthy and completely true? One from beginning of mans sin, the other from beginning of Israels law? both true? yes or no?

[@ken440]

@@realdealholyfield-dx3bf if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then obviously..... because of the special relationship it had before time began due to it being in the mind of God before it was created.... then my duck pond is full of Gods? Is that the logic you stated? pretty much was.

[@Episcopalianacolyte]

The real reason for disproving the Trinity and making JESUS to be just human is people want decide who will be their messiah. It is an American political statement. Look at Biblical Unitarianism websites.

[@thecapitalg]

Bruh

[@biblicalunitarian]

Not really sure what you are referring to. This is all about understanding who the Messiah is from the scriptures and nothing to do with understanding who the Messiah is for political purposes.

[@Sketchfox]

Which Trinitarian says God the Father is just an essence?

[@biblicalunitarian]

Trinitarians say God is an essence, that each of the three members share.

[@petromax4849]

I don't think that argument works so well. Premise 1 seems unnecessary, since trinitarians already want the father and son to be the same god. Additionally, it is conceivable that the Father and Son are distinct manifestations of the one person, God. If that is possible - which we have no way of disproving -, then the conclusion is not implied. This looks better: 1. God is a person 2. Jesus is a person 3. God is the father of Jesus (same as Jesus is the son of God, explicit in the Bible) 4. Jesus is a different person from his father (as consistently portrayed throughout the NT) 5. Jesus is not God

[@KK-AA-YY]

Who is the God that Jesus said to worship ? This is Jesus' COMMAND .. MATTHEW 22:37-39 "You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind. This is the greatest and first commandment .." - DNKJB; NW. Will you obey Jesus commandment ? (It's not a suggestion) It's a direct command from Christ Jesus and it's not up for debate. ALL genuine Christians are required to OBEY it.

[@rafaelo2215]

there is no trinity because the father is the holy ghost ... matthew 1:18 jesus is the child of the holy ghost ... aka son of god ...... this is why you should not blaspheme the holy ghost ... and jesus was created ... he was first the light created in day 1 then as a man in the new testament ... and john the baptize bare recocd in john 1 ... that he was the light that came into the word ... when the word was god it mean that jesus the first born of ever creature was representing god from the beginning ... for he was the beginning of the creation of god ... and most churches believe that we are not under the law ... aka 10 commandments ... it is man duty to do the law ... for by the law is how god give his mercy ... we first believe that god send jesus to show us ... to teach us to follow the law ... and if we believe in jesus who the father had sent then we believe in god who sent him and we also believe in his law of righteousness ... for the transgression of the law is sin ... and those who sin is serving satan ... we either establish the law or disobey the law which is sin... we do the law because it is every man duty and we are save by the father mercy because we try to do the law the best we can ... and that is why jesus will sent the spirit of god to guild us into the law and help us to fulfill the law ... at the end of everything in the last chapter of revelation we see who is bless ... Rev 22:14 (KJV) religion teaches a different gospel

[@ken440]

religion seems to teach something different to each person!

[@rafaelo2215]

@@ken440 yea but what does god teaches? is the question that people need to ask

[@-ServantOfTheLord-]

Wait until they learn about Monarchical Trinitarianism 😏

[@hudsontd7778]

Ya that's false, that's Hyper Arianism.

[@-ServantOfTheLord-]

@@hudsontd7778 Nope, that just shows you do not understand that theological position.

[@thetruth871]

@ Biblical Unitarian brother in this scripture God Himself says that He is Jesus, please read in. Isaiah 43:10,11 - “You are My witnesses,” says the Lord, And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, and understand that( I am He )You can not dispute this? and this is the reason why Jesus and the Father, are one? Hope this helps you. God Bless. God bless

[@adamuhaddadi5332]

think about it, if you bring a verse or verses that say the opposite of what BU is saying, YOU ARE ADDMITING THAT THE BIBLE HAS A CONTRADICTION. ❌❌❌❌❌❌ so its not the word of God.....?

[@thetruth871]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings yes we can become one with God, ones we live this Earth. but you can not compere humans with the existence of the Logos. Which is the Father ,Son, and the Holy Spirit. Because the Logos they are eternal, and they were together from the very beginning of time The Logos of John 1 can not be fully grasped on earth by humankind. No one can fathom what knowledge can be contained within the entire Logos. By its very nature then, it defies definition by mere words. Words had a beginning. God’s Logos had no beginning. He always possessed it and IT was with Him. God bless

[@e2qW]

1. There is ONE God 2. The Father is God because he possessed the divine nature 3. The Son is not the Father but he comes from the Father (You are a human being because your Mother was a human being) 4. If the Father is God by nature, Jesus is also God by nature C: Jesus is not the Father but he is God because he share the same nature with the Father.

[@biblicalunitarian]

Good thoughts, but I disagree with premise 4 because even though Jesus is the "son of God" that doesn't mean that he is by nature God. Adam was the son of God (and didn't even have any human parents) yet he was not God by nature at all, just human by nature. Yes, but even in your principles: "(You are a human being because your Mother was a human being)" that would then make Jesus 50% human 50% God if we are following normal Genetics. But neither Trinitarians nor Unitarians agree with that.

[@e2qW]

@@biblicalunitarian False, because Adam was a creation and you can't compare these two when one of it are eternally begotten, and Jesus received the divine nature fully and human nature fully, no where the bible says he was only 50%.

[@e2qW]

@@biblicalunitarian We are not following normal genetics and it is just a analogy, take it easy 🤣

[@e2qW]

@@biblicalunitarian Also the analogy only proved Jesus would receive fully divine nature from his Father, not genetic problems and he received fully human nature through the incarnation so there is no such a thing 50%50% and it is what we called Hypostatic Union.

[@KamruFaranChristian]

How to prayer Jesus

[@skywalker6940]

Who’s called God in Hebrews 1:8?

[@ken440]

Heb1:8 is a quote from psalms, its about a king sitting on the throne of David, which is the :"throne of God" same throne as Jesus will rule from. Hence the quote also refers to Jesus anointed. (not the same furniture, its the authority that is ordained by God)

[@skywalker6940]

@@ken440Is the Son a created being and should believers worship Him?

[@ken440]

@@skywalker6940 Is a man who is attested by God with miracles done through him, a man or actually God?

[@ken440]

@@skywalker6940 when David was worshipped because he was Gods chosen king, was he a created being.??

[@skywalker6940]

@@ken440 Only if that man was begotten by God the Father, because like begets like. Like David, why did God not allow Jesus to have a human father?

[@johnspartan98]

I prefer to not use the word person for God because a person is always defined as a human being. YHWH is a spirit being with personality, but that doesn't make him human. It's only in more recent years that some trinitarian inspired dictionaries have begun to call God a person. Like most left wing fringe trinitarian groups, they love to redefine long standing definitions or just insert words like essence, god-man, incarnation etc. God is NOT a person. God is a spirit being. Nowhere does anyone refer to God as a person in the Bible. A person is a human being. Now, I know it sounds like I'm dig in and won't change my opinion, but if I see solid proof that God is called a person in the scriptures, I'm willing to change.

[@cybrough]

You make very good arguments against the Trinity but I can’t understand how you can say that Jesus didn’t exist until born to Mary.

[@astutik8909]

Acts 3 v 22 = Deuteronomy 18 verses 15 to 18. This prophet didnt pre exist. Also many passages on the messiah being a descendant of David. Jesus pre existed only in a prophetic sense.

[@ken440]

​@@astutik8909very good answer.

[@ken440]

same way that John the baptiser was "sent from heaven" doesnt mean he physically came from heaven. Or Isaiah said "send me" when he seemed to be in a meeting in heaven. prophetic promise. The other answer gives you a good explanation.

[@astutik8909]

@@ken440 thanks Ken. Deuteronomy 18 destroys the trinity and perfectly aligns with John 3 v 34. Which in turn, brings more clarity to the trinitarian favourite, John 1 v 1.

[@astutik8909]

@@ken440 exactly Ken. God also sent many " saviours", but we should understand that GOD is the ultimate saviour. Those sent, are doing the will, of GOD. Ref ( KJV) Obadiah 1 v 21 Nehemiah 9 v 27 2 Kings 13 v 5. You could include Moses and even Joshua as well, altho they werent specified as such.

[@truth-of-the-trinity]

What do unitarians believe?

[@ken440]

That there is one God, and Jesus is the promised messiah to Israel, the only begotten son of God, through mary and he (a human) Jesus preached the promised kingdom to his people Israel, but they rejected and killed him, but after 3 days God raised him and seated him at His (God's) right hand and glorified him, that Jesus is the lamb of God who's blood covers sin, and all who come under that blood by believing (faith) will be justified and have life in ages to come. Does that sound familiar?

[@truth-of-the-trinity]

@@ken440 I 100% agree though I know many people who technically don't on various different topics you have covered. Do you know if you have a congregation near Ottawa Kansas?

[@ken440]

@@truth-of-the-trinity When you say "you" you misunderstand "unitarian." We are a group across the world, with subsets, and purpose is to expose the distortions of religious tradition taught in trinitarian "churches" which are the "false teachings in these last days" (i.e. 1st century to present) that the apostolic writers warned of. Effectively peeling back the layers of religious misadventure. As for me, I am one of less than a handful in my city, here in New Zealand. Ask this channel directly, they have a gathering place somewhere in the US. Personally I have taken encouragement from the patriachs of old. Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Elijah, and the prophets. All hated by the majority institutions they worked amongst, no comfy church once a week, but they had the God most high leading them.

[@truth-of-the-trinity]

@@ken440 Amen - I am a non-trinitarian infiltrating a trinitarian church for as long as I am allowed. I've seen much tension as a result. They still let me lead but not without many strings. I have managed to continue teaching One God to Trinitarians none the less. When I sent a message to you I thought I was contacting the group. Much to learn about KZbin.

[@ken440]

​@@truth-of-the-trinity all good. I had already drifted out of fellowship over 10 years ago after nearly 40 years in an AOG pentecostal assembly, of which my wife and i were founding members. I was still part of a mens interdenominational group, where all my explosions and strings were evident. I discovered i had been in error in steps over about a year, sharing with them as i discovered stuff. one of them listened, and exclaimed afterwards "once you see this, its huge, and you cant unsee it!" the others either left or tolerated me with the odd flareup and that sickly false smile we find so much in churches. Im branded a heretic and blasphemer by most of my old church family, but i have come to enjoy it, and call myself the "southern heretic" at times to open discussion. (Enoch, Noah, Moses, Elijah, and the prophets, and Jesus, to name a few, were all heretics against the majority situation of their day.) Its actually very biblically sound to be one going by Gods word. I am quite active here in YT comments. I know I am not likely to convert the ones who rail against me, but they are good stooges to allow me to show the other side, and my target audience is the silent reader who is searching for truth. So if i can lay out a more logical biblical truth on these threads, then one day along comes someone with an unboxed brain, reads it and says to themselves, "aha!" that makes more sense, how come I never saw that before?" Low cost missionary work, and i am sitting here doing it on a rainy winter sunday afternoon by the fire. Its actually quite fun at times.

[@johnmurphy588]

you say John 17:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6 saying that the Father is our only true God excludes Jesus from being God but if you're being consistent with 1 corinthians 8:6 for example then you would identify that jesus is called our 'only Lord'. Now does that exclude the Father from being Lord? of course not. that would be blasphemous. the Father is our Lord Luke 10:21, Matthew 11:25, Revelation 4:8. in the same way Jude 1:4 Christ is addressed as our 'only master and Lord' does the usage of 'only' mean it is in exclusion to the Father? of course not that would be blasphemous. it is referencing outside idols in contrast to the world. john 20:17 usage is clear example of cherry picking seeing as you for example ignore vrs 28-29 where disciple thomas clearly says to jesus 'my Lord and my God' jesus does not refute him instead he replies 'you believe for you have seen me blessed are those who believe yet have not seen me.' both jesus and thomas knew law of moses blasphemy punishment was death. jesus did not refute thomas. also as for isaiah 44:6 you actually proving jesus deity seeing as revelation 1:17-18, 2:8, 22:13 Christ is the First and Last. we know this is a title indicted to God alone . also we know revelation 22:13 Christ is the speaker. Go to verse 12 the speaker says 'I am coming quickly to repay you according to your deeds.' Matthew 16:27, matthew 25:31-46, john 5:22 Christ is the one who is to repay us according to our deeds. he is final judge. that is why revelation 22:12, 13 is in red letter bible as jesus words. revelation 22:13 is reference only to the true God .

[@animatednostalgia5034]

There are many men in the Bible who are called Lord. King David was called lord in 1 Kings 1:31. That didn't exclude the Father from being Lord when King David was lord. There is a difference between the Lord God and human lords. Lord means Master and Ruler. Jesus is the Messiah and Lord. It has nothing to do with him being the Father. Paul blesses the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ in Ephesians 1:3, and he prays to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ in Ephesians 1:17. How can the Lord Jesus Christ have a God if he is God?

[@franklicary3407]

There is Lord Yahweh (God) and Lord Jesus (Messiah). No contradiction.

[@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel]

Greetings friend. May I ask in 1 Cor 8:6 do you believe the ‘one lord’ Paul uses in reference to Christ means Yahweh?

[@johnmurphy588]

@@franklicary3407 that what I just said Jesus being called our 'one Lord' doesn't exclude the Father from being Lord just as the Father being our 'one God' doesn't exclude jesus from being God .

[@johnmurphy588]

@@TheDoctrineDetectiveChannel i already stated what I said in my comment that in 1 corinthians 8:6 jesus being called our 'one Lord' obviously doesn't exclude the Father from being Lord just as the Father being called our 'one God' doesn't exclude Jesus from being God if you are being consistent.

[@skywalker6940]

Is The Alpha and Omega of the Book of Revelation God?

[@ken440]

alpha and omega is same as A to Z or root and leaf, or beginning and end. Its not a name, its a figure of speech for the "fullness" of something. God is fullness of promise and plan of redemption. Jesus is becoming the fullness of the work of Gods plan (becoming, because until end of millenial age when God returns and Jesus hands it back (1cor15:28) he is not finished yet.

[@skywalker6940]

@@ken440It may appear unfinished to temporal beings, however Father and Son are eternal (Father is not Father without a Son, and Son is not Son without a Father). “I am” Alpha and Omega, Not I will be. Therefore, His work is finished: “It is finished”. Did Jesus say “I am the Alpha and Omega” (fullness)?

[@mikmark100]

​@@skywalker6940 No, Jesus never said he was Alpha and Omega. The only God the Father is always designated as Alpha and Omega in the Scriptures

[@skywalker6940]

@@mikmark100 Please see Rev. 22:13

[@mikmark100]

​@@skywalker6940 Revelation 22:13 Revelation 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. (NIV) The phrase, “the First and the Last,” is a title that is used five times in the Bible, twice in Isaiah of God (Isa. 44:6; 48:12) and three times in Revelation of the Son (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13). Trinitarians sometimes make the assumption that since the same title applies to both the Father and the Son, they must both be God. However, there is no biblical justification on which to base that assumption. When the whole of Scripture is studied, one sees that the same titles are used for God, Christ and men. Examples include “Lord” (see Rom. 10:9) and “Savior” (see Luke 1:47) and “King of kings” (Ezra 7:12; see 1 Tim. 6:14-16). If other titles apply to God, Christ and men without making all of them into “one God,” then there is no reason to assume that this particular title would mean they were one God unless Scripture specifically told us so, which it does not. Let us look more closely at these titles to try and understand their meaning. Since, all three phrases, “the First and the Last,” “the Beginning and the End,” and “the Alpha and the Omega,” are so similar and all are said of Jesus in Revelation 22:13, we will treat them as essentially the same in meaning. So, what is the meaning of these titles when God is described as “the Alpha and the Omega” or “the First and the Last”? Although there is no evidence from the historical sources that anyone is named “the Alpha and the Omega,” Bullinger says that the phrase “is a Hebraism, in common use among the ancient Jewish Commentators to designate the whole of anything from the beginning to the end; e.g., ‘Adam transgressed the whole law from Aleph to Tau’ (Jalk. Reub., fol. 17.4).”[1] Although many scholars have concluded that the phrase has something to do with starting and finishing something, or the entirety of something, that understanding is a little misguided. If we notice in this quote from Bullinger, the phrase is quite different. Particularly, the fact that it says, “from Aleph to Tau,” not simply, that the Law is “the Aleph and the Tau.” Perhaps the difference would be even clearer in English. It is quite different to say, “from A to Z,” than to say, “I am the A and the Z.” One communicates the whole of something, namely, the whole alphabet, and the other carries a more ambiguous meaning. Thus, Bullinger’s source does not give us a clear insight into the meaning of the phrase, “the Alpha and Omega” as a title. We propose that the phrases “Alpha and Omega” and “First and Last” as titles in reference to God refer to being unique, completely alone in a category. Let us look at the Old and New Testament contexts which give these titles to God to see why this is the best way to understand them. In the context of Revelation 1:8, the author gives us more information on the meaning of “Alpha and Omega” as a descriptor of God. It reads, “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, ‘who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'” God is the one who was, and is, and is to come. Thus, God has always existed. The end of verse 8 goes on to say that he is all-powerful or “almighty.” Yet, we know from the rest of scripture that God is the only being that these things are true of, they are unique to him. Only God is all-powerful (2 Cor. 6:18; Rev. 4:8; 15:3; 16:7; 19:15; 21:22) and only God is immortal (1 Tim. 6:16). Yet, He grants immortality to those who trust in Christ (2 Tim. 1:10). God is not the first one and the last one to be Almighty, as if others are in the middle, but the only Almighty one. We find that “uniqueness” is the exact meaning in its usage in Isaiah 44:6 as well. It reads, “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God except me.” God continues in verse 8, “Is there a God except me?” We see that the emphasis is not that God is the first in some way and the last in some way, with other beings in the middle, or that God completed something from beginning to end, but the emphasis of the phrase is on God’s uniqueness. It speaks to how there is no one else like him, he is the First and the Last God, the only God (Isa. 44:6; John 17:3). In Isaiah 48:12, the meaning of “I am the First, and I am the Last,” is a little more unclear. However, God being God alone is in the immediate context both before and after. Before, in Isaiah 48:11 he says, “I will not give my glory to another,” and directly after the phrase in question he says, “Yes, my hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand has spread out the heavens.” The immediate context is amplifying God’s uniqueness, only He created all things (Gen. 1:1; Psa. 104:24; 121:2), and only he deserves supreme glory and honor, glory of the only God (Isa. 48:11). Thus, God can rightly say he is the “First and the Last” in this context as well, he is utterly unique and can alone be credited with those works. Again, nothing in Isaiah 44 or Isaiah 48 suggests that the meaning of “the First and the Last” is the first to do something and the last to do something, with others in the middle, but being the only one to do something. We also find that the titles “the First and the Last” and “the Alpha and the Omega” carry the meaning of uniqueness when they are in reference to Jesus as well (Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13). In Revelation 1:17-18 we read, “I am the First and the Last, and the Living One, and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and the grave.” Similarly in Revelation 2:8 we read, “the first and the last who was dead, and has come to life.” These are characteristics that only Jesus possesses. Only he died and was resurrected three days later to never die again, only he could provide true atonement by dying in place of the sinner (Heb. 10:12), and only he has the keys to Death and Hades (meaning he can release people from death, by giving them everlasting life). Now, Peter did receive the keys to the Kingdom (Matt. 16:19) but only Jesus possesses the keys to Death and Hades. He is unique in this. It is not as if Jesus is the First and the Last Messiah and there are other Messiahs in between, no, he is the only Messiah. Likewise, in Revelation 22:12-13 we read, “I am coming quickly, and my reward is with me, to render each one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last…” Just like in Revelation 1:17 and Revelation 2:8, Jesus’ unique characteristics are mentioned right beside the title, “the First and the Last.” Jesus is unique in this context because God has handed over all judgment to the Son, and no one else. No one else is going to “render each one according to his work.” Notice, that Jesus does not say, ‘I am God, there is no other, the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.’ Being God, is not what makes Jesus the “Alpha and Omega,” but rather being the one true Messiah and the only one who will judge each human, since God has handed over all judgment to the Son (John 5:22). Also, notice how Jesus does not repeat the part that Trinitarians want to espouse. He does not quote, “there is no other God besides me,” instead he simply quotes: “I am the First and the Last.” Saying the phrase “I am the First and the Last,” does not make someone God. However, saying, “there is no other God besides me,” would make Jesus God. Yet, Jesus does not say this. It is not proper exegesis when someone quotes the Old Testament, or uses similar language to an Old Testament passage, to then apply everything in that passage to the New Testament situation. For instance, in Hebrews 1:9 which quotes Psalm 45:7 and applies it to Jesus, we would not then take all of Psalm 45 to apply to Jesus as well. This would be a major problem because the King of Psalm 45 has a wife (Psa. 45:9). So, what justification would we have to do this in places like Revelation 22:13? Jesus does not claim to be God in Revelation 22:13, so, we should not import that into the text. Continuation 2

[@UniversalistSon9]

Gods a mystery

[@jdmaep]

what about 1 john 5:20

[@KingoftheJuice18]

What if the last clause of that verse, "He is the true God..." refers back to the Father of whom Jesus is the son? Alternatively, since this text is from the Johannine school, the meaning of "true God" could be like what John's gospel says in 1:1, "and the word was God," meaning the word was divine. (When John 1:1-2 refers to God proper, it uses the definite article, τὸν θεόν, /ton theon/, as opposed to just θεὸς, /theos/, a divine being. Note that, for example, Ps. 82:6 in the Septuagint uses /theoi/, "gods," in this broader sense, "I thought your were divine beings.")

[@JudeOne3Four]

Greetings, God always refers to the Father. From 1 John 5:1 to 1 John 5:20

[@Mark-ig2hz]

There is one God The father is God The Son is not the Father therefore Jesus is not God? But Jesus was the word which was God God the father begotten the Son, who is the word (God)manifest in the flesh So Jesus the man was God in human form but not God the Father

[@chronic_daydreamer]

As he mentioned, he has previously addressed this faulty thinking and the mistranslation of “a god” as “God” from the original Greek is a flagrant attempt at supporting the Trinity. When calling the Word a god, it is accurately translated as “a god” or “mighty one” because it lacks the definite article in Greek. There is more sound reasoning there, if you only want to see it.

[@Mark-ig2hz]

@@chronic_daydreamer Then there are two Gods ? The fact is Most Christians simple see Jesus as God manifests in the flesh.I think this how scripture presents Jesus. John 14:9 "When you see me you see the Father" Jesus wants us to see him as the Image of God to worship him as God. The trinity and Unitarianism are both arguments made by people but ultimately it's God through his Holy Spirit that will reveal who the Son of God is.

[@user-jz6bd5vn9u]

is jesus the biological son of god and the virgin mary if the answer is no then the holy bible is a lie, if the answer is yes then son jesus is god as is the father and the holy ghost, for, i am forever and ever, god became manifest on earth as jesus, the christ resurrected victorious over death to exult and raise human kind to everlasting life vanquishing eternally satan and death, jesus said no one comes to the father except through me, that is a statement that could not be made save by god jesus christ the risen nazarene, baby jesus of bethlehem, god in his time shall make all things clear to every human soul

[@johnirish989]

I don't concede the unscriptural person. God is spirit. Humans are person made in His image, made with spirit. There is God and there is His Son made in the IMAGE of God. X does not equal the image of X. There is ONE Supreme or MOST High. No. He speaks in First SPIRIT Singular Pronoun. Spirits are whos, not whats. Appeals to trinitarians. Good luck with that. God has them locked up in some serious stubbornness. Another argument they can't therefore won't address: In all Paul's salutations in all his epistles, not once does he mention the Holy Spiriit. Gee Paul, how disrespectful. True, at the end of 2 Corinthians he does, but notice it's merely the COMMUNION of the holy spirit. We get its definition in Luke 1:35: the power of the Most High. Is your spirit a separate person from your person? Of course not.

[@ken440]

good points except your statement that "God has them locked in stubbornness" I would say that the god of this world has them locked in stubbornness (ha satan) Not YHWH.

[@euston2216]

Premise 3 is false. If the Son is a person distinct from the Father, then the Father committed an abomination when he sacrificed that personally distinct Son to die an unimaginably horrifying death on the cross. But if the Father "came down from heaven" _without leaving heaven,_ and manifested _himself_ on earth in genuine human form, as _his own_ Son, then the Father's sacrifice of the Son is *the sacrifice of self,* which is the greatest demonstration of LOVE. _"Greater _*_LOVE_*_ hath no man than this, that a man lay down _*_HIS_*_ life for his friends."_ -- John 15:13 (KJV) _"Hereby perceive we _*_the LOVE of GOD,_*_ because _*_HE laid down HIS life for us:_*_ and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren."_ -- 1 John 3:16 (KJV) _"And without controversy _*_great_*_ is the _*_mystery_*_ of godliness: _*_GOD was manifest in the flesh,_*_ justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."_ -- 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)

[@ken440]

Euston, you always say that illogical phrase "God came down from heaven without leaving heaven" and it immediately disqualifies you. and i see your usual follow verses. you know how here and there in scripture it is stated that God cannot coexist with sin? well that straight away should show you that God does NOT come "down" from heaven (heaven isnt "up" anyway, thats just a thought construct from when the ancients thought the earth was flat and hades was underneath it.

[@chronic_daydreamer]

@@ken440even “the heavens of the heavens” cannot contain him. And to suggest that Jesus, as God, worshipped and prayed to himself and sacrificed himself to himself to raise himself back from the dead to sit at his own right hand while already sitting on his own throne, to give himself another throne next to himself is so abjectly absurd that it defies all logic and scripture. Clearly we are dealing with two entirely separate entities who mirror one another in personality and purpose, not one in essence.

[@euston2216]

@@chronic_daydreamer _>>> "...sacrificed himself...abjectly absurd..."_ Sacrificing one's self: LOVE. Sacrificing a personally distinct son to die a horrifying death: EVIL. _>>> "...raise himself back from the dead...abjectly absurd..."_ *JOHN 2:19 (KJV)* JESUS answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days **I** will raise it up. Here's what's abjectly absurd, friend... The Biblical Unitarian "God" creates Adam, and Adam sins. And in the following millennia, the Biblical Unitarian "God" creates billions more human beings, and 100% of them sin. So the "plan" of the Biblical Unitarian "God" to _save_ those billions of human beings, of whom 100% sinned, is to create yet _another_ human being, "the human Messiah" - *who is every bit as capable of sinning as the billions of previously created human beings, of whom 100% sinned* - and hope that _this_ created human being is the one that _finally_ won't sin, *against the odds of zero in several billion,* so that he can be offered up as _a human sacrifice_ to pay for the sins of billions of other created human beings. If the Biblical Unitarian "God" wasn't a myth, he would be, to put it mildly, an utter fool. And a _wicked_ one at that. Repent of the abject absurdity of -Biblical- Unitarianism, and receive the revelation of the *self-sacrificial LOVE* of the one _true_ God, whose name is the name which is above _every_ name: *JESUS.*

[@ken440]

@@chronic_daydreamer aye, a' doo knoww. tell that te yon Euston. I agree wi ye mon.

[@skywalker6940]

@@chronic_daydreamerAre both “entities” uncreated, or did One “create” the other?

[@harold2]

That's not valid. Show another premise: God is unipersonal. If Jesus has been identified as God in the Scriptures, and that the Father is God, then God cannot be unipersonal.

[@davidalvarado6420]

People learn to read the Bible. Listen carefully to his arguments. They all fall apart because all you have to do is read all the Scripture in context. Who does it point to? The Father, Son, and Spirit. Read Genesis 1:26-27, who is the us? In Genesis 11 who is the us? In regard to your premises, they are accurate but your conclusion is a logical fallacy of setting up a false dichotomy. Consider this, the Son is God but is not the Father. God is a Father because He has a Son and any father who has a son has a progeny with his same nature. Therefore, Jesus is God. The Father and the Son are One (John 10:30-38) They share the Name (Mt.28:18-20). They share the same nature making Father, Son, and Spirit God(Isaiah 48:11-17).

[@davidalvarado6420]

I do read and study the Bible for myself and through relying on the Holy Spirit which reveals who the Father and Son are, God Almighty. Let me ask you since you think you know Scripture so well. Why does God share His glory with Jesus if it is clear in Scripture that He does not share His glory with anyone? (Isaiah 42:8) Because Jesus is the glory of God! ... the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4:4 The son is the radiance of God's glory and the representation of His nature Heb 1:3 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor 4:6 It is perfectly correct for Jesus to receive glory as the only one seated next to God - sitting at God's right side. God affirms Jesus' grand status as the exalted and magnified Son who He made heir of all things, when He calls the angels to worship him. And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.” Heb 1:6 When God glorifies Jesus, He (God) glorifies Himself. Jesus says, “Now the Son of Man has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. 32If God is glorified in him, God also will glorify him in Himself, and will glorify him immediately. John 3:31 Btw, humanity does not have the same nature as God but we inherit it being in Christ (2 Pet.1:4).

[@davidalvarado6420]

You are the one twisting scripture and are deceived. Who created all things and sustains all things? Who did you repent and believe in? Who died for your sins? Who rose again conquering death? Who is seated at the right hand of the Father? If you do not have the Son you don’t have the Father for He is the Way to the Father. You can go on twisting my words but I never said God made the Son as my view is that the Father, Son, and Spirit is the One true God as revealed in Scripture. If you read the Hebrew and Greek you know that this is the case.

[@adamuhaddadi5332]

not a single jewish scolar on the planet says that the us in genesis is a trinity, its just a case of 'royal we' were a single person (God) uses the pronoun "we". and i suggest you look up a jewish commentary on the old testament, like bro, you really think there is mention of this polythiestic doctrine in the old testament?? EVERY SINGLE jewish scolar on the planet we be happy to REFUTE YOU. i supose jesus is God, therefore jesus is God 🤦‍♂🤦‍♂🤦‍♀🤦‍♀🤦‍♂🤦‍♂🤦‍♀🤦‍♀ and also, in literaly the same chapter, (john 17) it says that the believers are one as (in the same way as) the father and jesus are one, so are all believers ONE person??? are they all equal??? NO! so its the same with the father and Jesus. also, think about it, if you bring a verse or verses that say the opposite of what BU is saying, YOU ARE ADDMITING THAT THE BIBLE HAS A CONTRADICTION. ❌❌❌❌❌❌ so its not the word of God.....?

[@davidalvarado6420]

@@adamuhaddadi5332 interestingly you claim polytheism because you are using the wrong math equation because it is not addition 1+1+1=3 but 1x1x1 =1. You also commit a logical fallacy of appealing to authority by going to Jewish scholars instead of God’s revealed word which points to His Son (John 5:39-40; Luke 24:27). Also, the word used for one in Deuteronomy 6:4-5 is echod which is a compound unity. If you really would like to have a civil discussion about whether God is only the Father and consisting of three personalities then I will be more than willing to do so but if you are not going to use Scripture in context then I will not waste my time. Btw, Reread the entire gospel of John and before you do start with John 20:31 to understand authorial intent and then read the whole gospel and tell me that Jesus is not God.

[@davidalvarado6420]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings you are the one deceived and so is anyone else who aligns with heretics from the past. Rely on the Holy Spirit as you advised me without commentary from others and see from the very beginning God is revealing the Son and all throughout redemptive history.

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

Jesus is YHWH (Acts 2:21; cf. Joel 2:32).

[@KK-AA-YY]

Did you just say, .. Jesus is four consonants ?

[@kardiognostesministries8150]

@@KK-AA-YY YHWH = The Almighty You can stop playing your stupid game now.

[@jdaze1]

Bibkical Unitarians need to embrace the FULL Truth and COME OUT completely from the false doctrines of the catholic church. The virgin birth never happened nor did the crucifixion and human sacrifice never atoned for our sins. EVERY doctrine of the catholic church is a deception of the truth.

[@ShemaHaTorah]

baby steps.. once they follow the logic of how Jesus is NOT God, they will see how every christian doctrine is a fabrication of greco-roman paganism. the same pagans that made jesus into God, is the same ones who made the virgin birth, sacrificial death, resurrection, etc.. ALL these concepts are from the mystery religions of Rome and have no part in the true scriptures

[@emmanuelyahaya-nh9fq]

What are you talking about 😂 my brother in Christ are you even Christian I am not a Trinity believer but you have clearly never read the bible

[@ShemaHaTorah]

@@emmanuelyahaya-nh9fq He read the Hebew Scriptures, that's the bible.. all that stuff written in Greek is just the gnostic writings and commentary by pagan catholics

[@thetruth871]

For opponents of the Bible, claiming there are contradictions or inconsistencies in the text has been one of the most common arguments against its reliability. One such claim is based on John 17:3, where Jesus states, “Now this is eternal life; that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” Those antagonistic toward the Bible argue that this verse directly contradicts the claim that Jesus is God. They say that this passage proves that Jesus Himself agrees that there is only one true God, which is not Himself, since He refers to Himself as separate and distinct from the “true God.” Context Is Key A bit of context here is helpful. John chapter 17 is a prayer from Jesus to the Holy Father. Since this is a prayer, it is only natural for Jesus to refer to God the Father separately. In that prayer Jesus initially prays that both the Father and the Son be glorified (John 17:1-5). Next, He prays for His disciples (John 17:6-19). Finally, He prays for all believers, both current and future (John 17:20-26). These requests come at the time just prior to the Garden of Gethsemane where Jesus was ultimately betrayed by Judas Iscariot and taken prisoner by the Romans (John 18:1-14). The fact that Jesus (the Son) and God (the Father) are presented as separate Beings is nothing new. In fact, the first time we hear from God the Father in the New Testament is at the baptism of Jesus. There, God says, “This is My Son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased” (Matthew 3:17). Distinction of person does not equate to a lack of oneness. Jesus and the Father Are One Jesus claimed to be one with God, and that made His enemies furious. In John 10:30, Jesus states unequivocally, “I and the Father are one.” The next verse says, “His Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him” (John 10:31). Jesus’ claim to be God amounted to blasphemy in the eyes of the Jewish leaders. Jesus goes on to question them: “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son?’ Do not believe Me unless I do the works of My Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father” (John 10:36-38). Here, Jesus is challenging these skeptics to look at the miracles He had performed and come up with an explanation other than that Jesus and God the Father are one. Even contrary spiritual forces agreed with the fact that Jesus and the Father are one. In explaining saving faith to believers, James, the brother of Jesus says, “You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that-and shudder” (James 2:19). Theologian Wayne Grudem explains the idea of oneness, saying that Jesus and God the Father “are distinct persons, and the being of each person is equal to the whole being of God” (Grudem, W., Systematic Theology, Zondervan Academic, 1994). Jesus Claimed to Be (and Is) Fully God Though Jesus never actually said the words, “I am God” in the pages of the Bible, that doesn’t mean that He didn’t claim to be God. Right after speaking of the “only true God” in John 17: 3, Jesus spoke of the glory that He had with God “before the world began” (verse 5; cf. John 1:1). Earlier, Jesus had made the following statement to the religious leaders who were resisting Him: “Very truly I tell you . . . before Abraham was born, I am!” (John 8:58). Jesus’ reference was to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” In this statement, Jesus told them point blank that He is God. The response of His enemies proved His statement was heard loud and clear. As they held stones to throw at Him, they said, “We are not stoning You for any good work but for blasphemy, because You, a mere Man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Only True God - Conclusion John 17:3 needs to be read in context to fully appreciate what Jesus was saying in that prayer. The contrast is not between the Father and the Son but between the Father and the world’s false gods and idols. Jesus is conversing with the Father who is in heaven while Jesus is on earth. Jesus’ statement that the Father is the only true God should not be seen as contradictory or inconsistent with the whole of the Bible, which supports the fact Jesus Christ is God.

[@harveyhutchinson8266]

Jesus prayed that the disciples would be one as he and the father were one. So are the disciples God also? Your argument is illogical.

[@thetruth871]

@@harveyhutchinson8266don't compere the disciples to be like Jesus, Jesus is eternal just like God, the disciples are mortals. i suggest you read the Bible, And learn that This doctrine is supported in John 17:5 when Jesus refers to the glory that he had with the Father "before the world existed" during the Farewell Discourse.[2] John 17:24 also refers to the Father loving Jesus "before the foundation of the world".[2] Ephesians 1:4-5,[3] 2 Corinthians 8:9, Galatians 4:4 and Colossians 1:15-17 show that Paul knew the preexistence of Christ.[4] God bless

[@thetruth871]

@@ThePeaceofWildThings i kindly return to you the same compliment brother, you are the one who is blind , and you should repent and come to the truth who Jesus is? do you know what Logos means? it means this And when the Logos took on flesh and lived among us, he did not cease being God's Logos and, therefore, still eternally God. Before the incarnation, the Logos did not have a body, "but for our sake became man." Thus, in his incarnation, the Logos became Jesus, the God-Man. God bless

[@ken440]

its unbelievable these folk can be so blind. ​@@ThePeaceofWildThings

[@mikmark100]

​​@@thetruth871Logos in Bible has more than 20 different meanings in different places in the Bible, only the trinity biased translators made him Jesus

[@thedude9199]

Nothing you says disproves the trinity. From Genesis to Revelation the 3 are seen as one. False theology like this, with poor interpretation and no expository study always fails in the light of truth. Weak.

[@ken440]

false theology like what you just said?

[@Truth-f2q]

Your God died???Jesus said He died. Rev 1:8

[@thedude9199]

@@Truth-f2q Thats what seperates Christianity from all others, the death and resurrection. God the Father did not die, nor the Spirt, but the Son to fulfill the prophecies about it. In His life he fulfilled over 300 prophecies concerning the Messiah (including 28 on crucifixion day). The Father turned His back, the Spirit left, and Jesus was alone yet still God. Jesus not murdered, He laid His life down, no one took it from Him. On the third day He picked it back up.

[@ken440]

@@thedude9199 he picked it back up? like you have not noticed scripture saying "God raised him" but you suggest he pulled himself up by his own bootlaces? And father turned His back while His own son died? I suppose you get that from Jesus crying out "why have you forsaken me" as thats what I was told during the 4 decades when i was a misled trinitarian. No Jesus cried that out because it is psalm22v1, a messianic psalm, which would have made many there at the cross suddenly realize what they had done. Brother that is just plum wrong. Jesus died at a passover, he is the lamb of God. He was killed by the high priesthood on passover. Gods provided lamb of covering, that is what is special. All of us who come under the sprinkled blood, are saved. You are right about the prophecies fulfilled, but wrong regarding Jesus having to be God. Jesus is the messiah, the christ, both those words mean "anointed one."

[@DisprovingLies]

How can you explain that Jesus is making a clear difference between his words and God's words in the following verse --> John 7:17-18: "Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. Whoever speaks on their own does so to gain personal glory, but he who seeks the glory of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.'"

[@ronaldsimmons9517]

This is all amazingly childish. Look at Hebrews 1:8 ref Psalm 45:6. The human mind can't comprehend God!

[@mikmark100]

Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom. (NIV) Both from the immediate context and with the presence of translation problems, there are quite a few reasons why we do not believe that this verse is not calling Jesus “God” nor should it be translated, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” 1. First, evidence that the psalm is speaking of a human king is in Psalm 45:7, which says, “You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness. Therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation above your peers.” That the text calls God, “your God,” i.e., the king’s God, shows that the king is inferior to God. “God” does not have a God. It would make no sense to be calling the king “God” here, as the clear biblical teaching is that there is one God (1 Cor. 8:6; John 5:44; 17:3), so if Jesus is the one true God, how could he have a God? 2. The context of both Hebrews 1 and Psalm 45 makes it clear that this king being referred to is not the supreme God because this king has been blessed by God (Psa. 45:2), has a wife (Psa. 45:9), and simply put, he is a human king (Psa. 45:1, 5, 13, 15), not the supreme God. We also know this passage in Psalm 45 is not originally about Jesus because the king has a wife. The queen is said to be a woman of foreign descent, possibly from Tyre (Ps. 45:12) who was told to forget her own people and father’s house (Ps. 45:10), and she and her husband have an ivory house (Ps. 45:8). Those facts have led some commentators to suggest that this psalm is referring to the marriage of the Phoenician princess Jezebel to King Ahab, who had an ivory palace (1 Kings 22:39). But that is untenable since Ahab does not fit the characteristics of a godly king that are so prominent in the psalm. Solomon, who also married foreign women and lived in luxury, is a much more likely candidate. Thus, the original quote in Psalm 45:6 is not actually referring to Jesus, but originally refers to an Old Testament king, but also finds later application in Jesus. If the verse is calling the king “God,” then that would make both Solomon and Jesus God, which is untenable, and there is no internal reason to apply Psalm 45:6 to the Messiah without verse 7 applying to the same king. That would be eisegesis, reading into the verse to make it fit one’s theology. If the psalm is calling the Messiah “God,” then the Davidic king is also God. So, if a Trinitarian is using this verse to prove Jesus is God, it actually would prove too much and make Solomon God too. Likewise, Hebrews 1 makes it clear that the king (Jesus) being referred to is not God because the entire passage is trying to argue that Jesus is greater than the angels. If Jesus was God, it would have been much simpler for the author to say that Jesus is God, therefore, he is greater than the angels, case closed. Instead the author goes to great lengths to try to show Jesus’ superiority in other ways, such as that he sits at the right hand of the Father (Heb. 1:13), that God calls him his Son (Heb. 1:5), and that the angels are to worship him (Heb. 1:6). 3. The king’s God “anointed” him, setting him above his “peers.” This is evidence against a Trinitarian interpretation of the verse for a number of reasons. One is that “God” does not have any peers to be set above, whereas the human king of Israel, including the Messiah, does have peers. The Messiah, Jesus Christ, did have peers because he was completely human and not a God-man as Trinitarian theology asserts. Also, Psalm 45:7 says this king loved righteousness and hated wickedness, and “therefore” God anointed him. This makes perfect sense if the king is human, but if this king is “God,” was he really anointed because he loved righteousness? It makes no sense that “God” needed to be anointed at all. Translation Considerations: Now let us address some reasons why Hebrews 1:8 should not be translated, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.” Although “Your throne, O god, is forever and ever” is a legitimate translation of Hebrews 1:8, there is evidence that “Your throne is God forever and ever” is actually a better translation. The renowned Greek scholar and Trinitarian, A. T. Robertson noted that the Greek word theos (God) could be understood as a vocative, “O God,” or as a nominative, as in the phrase, “God is thy throne” or “Thy throne is God.” He wrote: “Either [translation] makes good sense.” While it is true that from a strictly translational point of view either a vocative or nominative translation is acceptable, all translation is informed by context and scope, and the context strongly argues against the translation “Your throne, O God.” 1. There is a very good reason for believing that the correct translation of Psalm 45:6 is “God is your throne,” or some other translation (some are given below) that takes “God” as referring to the Most High God and not a human “god.” If Psalm 45:6 is translated, “Your throne, O God…,” then Psalm 45:6 would be the only verse in the whole Bible in which a human being is directly and personally addressed as “god.” There are times when humans are referred to as “gods” (John 10:33-34) or as a god to someone else (Moses over Pharaoh in Exod. 7:1), meaning that they act as a god over that person, they rule over them; but nowhere else in the Bible is a human being personally addressed as “god.” Added to that evidence is the fact that “Elohim” occurs four times in the psalm (Ps. 45:2, 6, and 45:7 (twice)), and three of them clearly refer to God, so it fits the psalm that the fourth would also refer to God the Father. 2. Robert Alter gives another argument why “O God” is likely not the correct translation. In The Hebrew Bible: A Translation with Commentary writes “Some construe the Hebrew here to mean, ‘Your throne, O God,” but it would be anomalous to have an address to God in the middle of the poem because the entire psalm is directed to the king or to his bride.” 3. Another argument for the translation, “Your throne is God forever and ever,” is that it matches the parallelism in the Greek between Hebrews 1:8a and 1:8b. In Hebrews 1:8b we have two nominative nouns and in English we add an “is” in between. This looks like: “the scepter (nominative noun) of uprightness is the scepter (nominative noun) of your kingdom.” It is very common in both Greek and Hebrew to add a “to be” verb to make a sentence understandable in English, and almost every modern translation translates Hebrews 1:8b this way. Interestingly, the first half of the verse has the same construction, a nominative noun and then another nominative noun with no verb. Thus, it is fitting to supply an “is” in between these two nouns just as most translations do in the second half of the verse. Hebrews 1:8a would read “Your throne (nominative noun) is God (nominative noun)” and 1:8b reads, “the scepter (nominative noun) of uprightness is the scepter (nominative noun) of your kingdom.” So, in other words, one would have to find a good reason to translate the two nominative nouns differently in the first half of the verse than in the second half, even though it would be most natural to understand them in the same way because they are in a very similar construction in the Greek. The meaning of the two phrases is that God is the king’s throne (or his source of authority) metaphorically, not literally, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of his kingdom metaphorically, not literally. In other words, this king rules with righteousness instead of a physical scepter. The main argument against the translation “Your throne is God,” is that the phrase does not make sense to some people. But we must understand that the verse is not using “throne” as a seat, a chair, but as it is often used in the Bible, as a source of authority. In fact, if “throne” is understood to be a chair then the verse does not make sense: the “throne” is the source of authority. In essence, the verse is saying, “your source of authority is God.” For example, when David chose Solomon to be king, one of David’s top men, Benaiah said to David, “…may he [Yahweh] be with Solomon and make his throne greater than the throne of my lord king David” (1 Kings 1:37). In speaking of Solomon’s “throne” being greater than David’s, Benaiah was saying that Solomon would have more authority and dominion than David did, which came to pass. The use of “throne” referring to the authority that the throne represents also occurs in the New Testament. When the angel Gabriel appeared to Mary, he told her she would give birth to the Messiah and he said, “the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David” (Luke 1:32). In saying that Mary’s son would have the “throne” of David, he meant the authority that the throne represented. That authority went all the way back to God’s promise to David that his “throne” would endure forever, which is why Gabriel then said, “…he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end” (Luke 1:33). “Your throne is God forever” means that God is the authority, the “throne” of the king, and the king reigns with the authority of God. This king, and by extension the Messiah, the true king of Israel, has been specially anointed by God (Psa. 45:7).

[@InvestigadorTJ]

There is a difference between comprehending him and knowing his identity: Look as these doctrines about the identity of God: Unitarians Arians Trinitarians of all types Tritheist Trinitarians claim that god works in mysterious ways YET God is three persons in one being. They go from declaring all this mystery but reasoning with logic that it’s 3 persons. The person on this video is doing exactly that using his god given skills to come to a different conclusion so no the “can’t comprehend God” excuse doesn’t apply here every one of these positions declare the identity of the biblical God. I say that’s as a JW.

[@ken440]

​@@mikmark100brilliant and very thorough.

[@ken440]

@ronaldsimmons9517 if "the human mind cant comprehend God" then why does God reveal Himself to man in the word of God? Perhaps you are using that slogan as an excuse to not try to understand?

[@mikmark100]

@@ken440 Look at the Bibleunitarian site and there under Verses you will find explanations of various verses on this subject...