Does Too Dark Exist? - Cinematography Breakdown

[@DavidKeninger]

Patrick, Appreciate the breakdown. Not only were you correct regarding many of our lighting set ups you also discerned why we choose to place various fixtures. That bedroom for example was in fact dreadfully small to work in. Below is another spot which I directly utilized tips from your podcast. Appreciate the time you spend and the knowledge you share. You’ve helped many of us grow. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmrWoJ6NiNqij68 Best, -David Keninger

[@JacksonHayes]

oh shoot - confirmation for the SOURCE

[@williambrowne]

Confirmation here as well. A bunch of shots I had to pause and figure out how you were even lighting some of the scenes :D Overall really impressed!

[@aleksanderhaugdal2060]

You should get on the podcast :) that would be great @patrick

[@wanderingdp]

And the circle is complete. Well done David keep up the good work

[@joshmillerdp]

Dude I freakin out when I saw the thumbnail for this!!! Congrats man. You’re a freakin stud.

[@BrendanJBoyle]

Patrick, you really nailed many of the issues and challenges we faced on lighting this! (I was gaffer on this, working with with DP David Keninger). Your podcasts have brought so much insight and have seriously improved my cinematography game. Appreciate you 🙏

[@wanderingdp]

Good to hear Brendan! 👍🏼

[@brankokosteski]

The 180 break here feels natural because it’s cut on her movement and we can pick up the orientation in space easily according to that.

[@joshmillerdp]

I actually got to PA on this shoot! Wasn’t helping creatively but dang it was incredible amazing getting to watch David work his magic.

[@threefoldtv]

@2:55 "My favorite angle of people inside of cars, or people traveling in cars." What a great note, Patrick. The window reflection actually expands the frame so you can "see" more of the environment while still being rather close to the subject. If you were shooting downtown with bright city lights, I suppose they could help bring some more light to the subjects face.

[@wanderingdp]

When in doubt do what you like

[@WanFangLin]

really appreciate the effort you're putting into these breakdowns. and you're doing a great job being entertaining at the same time

[@wanderingdp]

Thanks

[@drsus0]

DP: “Does too dark exist?” Every agency creative: “is it going to be this dark?”

[@DuncanSmith]

"nobody really follows the 180 degree rule" definitely going to use that one some day

[@wanderingdp]

Go for gold

[@LucasPelizaro]

It's incredible how well you breakdown these ads! I'm hoping I get to this quality soon

[@pheasantpluck]

This is our man!!!!! 325likes to 0dislikes. This is the value of high level content to a specific audience. Amazing. So inspirational - AND BEASTILY EDUCATIONAL. Thank you.

[@Praxiszooms]

1:13: I am so thankful that now with your help I know all these right of the gate thanks to you. It just comes out like a bullet: Edge. L of the room, contrast, Upstage, Framework, Peppering the frame, squeeze and drop, thicken up the toe, wrap around, sun sandwich, neg, light to dark to light...all these things help me so much because I am not a professional and never will be "like on a real movie set." I am a youtuber - but with my 120d and an apurture Light Dome - I can - now - create so much better images and all thanks to your help. Thank you!

[@GeraldBertramPhotography]

I always look forward to your breakdowns. Learn something every time. Thanks so much!

[@drcinematic.youtube]

One of my favorite channels on YT. Thank you!

[@tristanshannon4128]

Love the breakdowns my dude, the insight is incredible

[@wanderingdp]

Oh yeeeeea

[@allisayisthatyouhavetobehere]

The fact that you do these breakdowns for free with dropping all the knowledge is insane. Thank you for sharing all these insights 🫶🏻

[@ConnerFoxx]

"Does too dark exist?" if it does, we aren't there yet. Scenes should be dark, /screens/ should be bright. If I'm exposing something above 50%, it's typically going to be practicals, skies, fire light, punchy rim light, etc... nothing belongs up there unless it has a reason to appear bright. Obviously the lighting needs to work alongside composition and movement to create depth, but I also think a strong difference in levels between a lamp and persons face triggers something in your brain that says "That's how I actually see in the real world!". It sucks you right into the world that image is trying to show you by saying "hey, this is real". You just don't get that with amateur video where most of the image sits at or above 60%... why would a person's face be anywhere near as bright as a genuine source of light? Great breakdown as always!

[@dralalust]

Love this thanks

[@austinreeves_cine]

Dude, im with you. By contrast one of the jobs I do is a regular studio show where they want talent skin at like 80%. You have no idea what it does to my soul.... lol

[@J94_Film]

Some of us like to see what is happening though. What about that episode of GoT where you couldnt see shit? So many movies recently are dark as hell. Im talking about in the cinema, not like a home setup. Bring everything up to how it looks in real life, so you dpnt have such dim movies when there are literally lights on screen. Please and thankyou.

[@ConnerFoxx]

@@J94_Film A supposedly dark movie IS shot to look how things appear in real life. It's not actually about things being dark, it's about leaving room in the exposure for bright things (like lamps or skies) to be bright. If the whole movie looks too dark at all times, it's probably the fault of a screen that is too dim for the environment. That applies to cinemas as well, many of them are not maintaining their projectors at all and are playing movies too dimly. That's why you get people arguing about some films, with some people saying it looked great and others saying they couldn't see anything at all.

[@J94_Film]

@@ConnerFoxx that's fair. I just assumed the projectors at cinemas would all be standard. There are definitely examples i can think off where at least scenes were too dark (sometimes the whole thing). But this often seems to be about tone or hiding bad cg. E.g. suicide squad (first one), GoT the long night, new candyman had a dinner at the beginning that was really dark, WW84 fight scene, malignant had like a million practical wall lamps on that didmt seem to do anything. Sometimes it's not about an average image on a graph etc. It's about having key information be delivered through something bright or the context of what's happening. There's this film Relic from a couple years ago that had some really dark scenes but it was always clear what was happening. E.g. we see a character bend down to look under the bed, then we see a pov shot that is really murky as they try to see if there's somthing there. Or character is crawling through a tunnel and we cant see shit... except the light on their phone is visible. So we dont see the character much but we see the torch light just fine and have all the info we need. The real problem is action/scenes. Where the film is tellimg us: something cool is happening/the hero is fighting the bad guy(s)... but we cant see what the cool things are or who's winning.

[@colorblindcinematographer791]

Cinemagrapher’s name David Keninger. He’s awesome.

[@wanderingdp]

True

[@pierrezapata90]

What a great breakdown! Laughed at no one follows the 180 deg rule

[@wanderingdp]

True

[@AlexGTech]

😆sideways hat is my new way of communication

[@wanderingdp]

Say more with less

[@unclejezza]

"Does that sound like something the character would do?" Jesus man! You had me in BITS with that line! HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA 🤣😂🤣

[@aerozg]

Dammit, i wish i had a big studio space to practice The Framework. Watching these breakdowns is one thing, rolling up your sleeves and actually applying all this wisdom is something completely different. If you ever start a real brick & mortar school kindly let me know. I will teleport wherever it is.

[@wanderingdp]

I’ll do you one better. How bout a virtual set where you can watch and practice the whole process from the comforts of your own house. Launching Feb 23

[@aerozg]

@@wanderingdp Say what?! Ok man, i will see your virtual set and raise you a fully immersive VR experience *whips out Oculus Rift*. Just kidding, i fold. Holy shit! T-minus 10...

[@cross-eyedliszt5183]

Could you do a video explaining how to read the lumetri scopes chart that you use so often?

[@wanderingdp]

Anything above 50 is bad. You are welcome

[@Gleebi]

@@wanderingdp 😂 👌

[@prayforpeace2204]

Good episode. I will bring the neg in more often.

[@wanderingdp]

Yes that is the way

[@BoyBlessing]

I think an episode talking ab how to light walls would be great. I struggle so much with that

[@randallburgess6393]

ya that shot of her in the class room is a give away, her skin tone looks different from all the others and the lighting then appears to be different on her, someone played with the grade and targeted her to be different from the talent around her.

[@kurtgilbertson]

Dude youre such a good teacher. As a non professional video guy it’s just fun to see how deep and intentional the knowledge goes. I do have a question for you though. I use my Wacom tablet for biomechanics instruction for physio rehab. What markup app do you use over davinci? And screen recorded in OBS? My guess is epic pen but I want to confirm! Thanks is advance!

[@yohalmocoto4604]

Super helpful video! thank you for this! I feel like in 11:43 it feels like a football coach making a play for the team. lol

[@Chriscavalier27]

Hey Patrick! Your videos are so inspiring and help me learn SO much about lighting. Easily the best lighting channel in my opinion. Would you ever consider doing a breakdown of your setup? How you have your lights, etc? I bought an umbrella, but it's from newer, and I'm not sure if it's up to the same standard as your key. Thank you for reading!

[@jackdavidson5506]

Hey man, great work. Super nerdy Q: when you are saying “short side key” did you actually mean long side key? The way I learned it was short side of the face vs long side (long or short depending on which way they are facing). So that when you are saying the talent was keyed “short side” , she was actually being lit along the longer side (wrong side) of her face. The short side of the face is slightly away from us and preferable, as one can often create an upstage key and then neg/fill the longside as to look right. LMK if I have this backwards. It isn’t that important except to communicate to my team effectively

[@NickBrengle]

Haha, love the opening! Appreciate your insight and letting us into your eye!

[@a02tony09]

Your commentary is hilarious also really enjoying all your breakdowns!!

[@samueladebayodirectorofpho6751]

I really appreciate the breakdown.

[@StewartKyasimire]

Love this! What is the name of the commercial? *Edit Found it! kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJK7h6ebbZdmiNU

[@km8890t]

Excited for this breakdown

[@Cinematographer_brenton]

great breakdown dude! learned so much!

[@DodaGarcia]

Patrick goes "Somebody has been listening to the podcast" and then the makers of the commercial come in and comment they were indeed inspired by the podcast Amazing

[@tommyowen529]

Fascinating. This dude really knows his $hit.

[@jv8studios]

Epic breakdown 💯

[@liveinspirephotography8291]

i thought the other classroom was the last of classroom breakdowns lol

[@BlackPartyFilms]

So apparently every other youtuber is now copying your video set up lol down to the lighting

[@wanderingdp]

Link or it never happened

[@BlackPartyFilms]

@@wanderingdp kzbin.info/www/bejne/bmKacn5sqMZjp80 oddly similar

[@wanderingdp]

@@BlackPartyFilms gradually then suddenly

[@MojoPapiFPV]

Is there a Spotify link to the podcast? Can't find it.

[@426Studios]

Im sorry to ask this question... Im still fairly new on lighting.... I am confused on why in the bedroom scene the key light was switched? I mean in the first angle the key light was on the window side but on the 2nd angle why was it on the opposite side? What was the reason? Is it because of the tight space so on the 2nd angle it was switched to the right side so it can be hidden? Also another question, Is it ok for the rim light to be on the same side as the key light? I mean just like in the bedroom scene, if the key light is on the left side, should the rim be on the right side so the subject can be separated well?? Or its just ok for the rim to be also on the left side?

[@a_certain_space]

"...and you are not as good as nature"

[@josefperszon822]

Haha this intro killed me

[@reubenblosch8612]

what kind of grains on that footage? i like the 35mm 400T in resolve with minimal softness

[@wanderingdp]

Whatever is free inside resolve I imagine

[@TyRogers]

“We need a booster seat on aisle 4!!”

[@cursedfakenewscfn967]

I love these breakdowns but how are we able to get dark shots like this while shooting in log? Underexposed spots on log have tons of noise, so do I not use log or do I properly expose the face for log and the run a denoise software in post to achieve this dark/no noise look? I can't find the answer to this anywhere.

[@fallenhoenix1255]

I assume neg means negative?? Can anyone share a link where I can read about why it's important/how to properly implement it? Thanks world! Edit: I googled it, apparently it's negative fill. Reading more about it...

[@bellVFX]

are you using an iPhone in your videos?

[@dailythinker]

I need to get this type of picture

[@wanderingdp]

Me too

[@assylkhanmeldebek5040]

Thanks 👍

[@slowhaunt]

Did we establish if too dark exists or not? Or no? Did I miss it?

[@wanderingdp]

I’m saying we won’t have to.

[@popwillsaveus]

Gold

[@wanderingdp]

Bitcoin

[@portfolio641]

What are the camera settings like for this piece?

[@thetravisgreene]

"Don't you dare look into the camera". Hilarious. Here's how nerdy I am : currently in Resolve trying to grade a web tutorial master shot, with a still from your intro, trying to emulate your look. What is your setup?!

[@kojisumalde9909]

"You gotta be talking with the producer... about why your invoice is so enormous." Mhmmmm

[@eBrandingGroup]

I thought the film Solo A Star Wars Story was too dark. It did not fit the look of the prior films. I realize the tone was different, but some of the scenes were so dark you couldn't see anything.

[@justinengberg]

So, does too dark exist or not? I NEED ANSWERS! The reason I'm wondering this is because I was in a dream. I was at home and I knew it was a short film, I was with a girl and I knew her but I don't remember who she was. I wasn't ignoring her but we weren't hanging out either. It was light outside, but it was strangely dim in the apartment. There were lights on but the light was getting sucked out of the air. Anyways, there was no point where any of the lights turned out but it slowly got darker and eventually it was so, so dark but I couldn't turn on the lights, I wouldn't open the blinds either. But then I turned on the breaker and the light turned on. Then I saw there was another girl and I realized she was the other girl's sister. She was yelling but she couldn't make any sound. I realized there was a metaphor to the film that the things in life that you let control you are blinding you to the world around you. And that's why the girl was screaming and I couldn't hear her. And thats why I wanted to make this a short film. I didn't know why this was the metaphor but that just was what it was. I think the symbolism is when you flip the breaker that's when you do a 180 in life. Anyways thats what my dream was and I realized I can't be controlled in life. Anyways Isaac told me this, its not actually my dream but I still want to know

[@isaacbrenny126]

What else happened?? I need to know

[@luben2994]

Maybe they could shoot singles instead of OTS of the daughter, if they don’t want to cross the line? Also what does short side key mean?

[@florinbalaican7419]

very informative video, but the persons whom dislike this video are bigger producers .... I'm just sarcastic

[@Gleebi]

The "I'll see youuuu" wasn't high enough pitch.... 😐

[@redantdc]

I left the oven on

[@wanderingdp]

every rose has its thorn

[@johnrossi8862]

I truly laughed about 5 times waching this

[@postproductionmentor1081]

can u move the focus chart away from behind your neck, its distracting 😀

[@genuine_li]

i love you

[@robinprobyn1971]

Cant you just cheat mum camera left, for the over shoulder onto daughter , to avoid having to cross the line.. you don't see the wall or door side in shot..?

[@moodyswings9812]

👌

[@ruankotze4186]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@wanderingdp]

👍🏼

[@claytongallego9242]

hahah no one follow that rule.. it's just a myth ehauheau I laugh hard... amazing analysis bro.. keep doing this please!