Don't Fall setting up climbing anchor for top roping

We talk about how to reduce risk when near the edge of a cliff. I use this skill set for setting up top ropes for rock climbing. This is a combination of skills, it there is anything you are unsure of do more research and as always practice skills in a safe environment.
Extremegear.org stocks most of the gear shown in this video.

[@jonathanandrade176]

"Never and always are generally used by novices and fanatics" I love that you acknowledge there are MANY nuances in the real world and that every situation is different. Never stop learning never stop practicing systems. Thanks for all the info Bobby!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Been working on that saying awhile. I definitely feel like I have less of a command on the full body of climbing knowledge than I felt at 20.

[@AlexOliverPiano]

@@bobbyhutton1989 I really appreciate the phrase too, especially the use of 'generally' lol. Thanks for the info, everything you've put out so far has been incredibly informative and is all getting saved away for later reference because I know I'll be using it!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

@@AlexOliverPiano Glad you are enjoying the content.

[@paulgaras2606]

What is your opinion on nylon slings around trees? Is it better or worse for the tree than a rope?

[@bobbyhutton1989]

@@paulgaras2606 Depends on how much surface area is contacting the tree, more is better as it spreads out the load.

[@user-fs5bg1xj8t]

This is such a great, precise video, every passage is explained perfectly and nothing is left behind... keep this up!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thank you. that is a very validating comment.

[@joshb693]

This is the exact video I needed when I started top rope climbing, all the other videos out there are great, but they seem to avoid this one topic which is so crucial! Great stuff.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Yeah, I noticed that gap. WhenI teach these subjects as a guide people always want to spend extra time in edge safety.

[@christooss]

I'm super excited for more of your content. Keep up the great work!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for watching!

[@maxblair3317]

Yes!! Ah I'm so glad you're making videos now Bobby, been a fan of hownot2 for a long time now and I always hoped you would start your own chanel for exactly this kind of content! Best of luck, cheers!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Sweet! I am really enjoying making this kind of content. Still very involved with Hownot2, but directing the whole creative process my self has been rewarding.

[@BMXaster]

Hey Bobby a little story for you. 2 or 3 years ago I was climbing some routes in the eastern part of Switzerland. a kind of known region, but rarely climbed spot. What I found there was kind of bizarre. There were some routes, which were bolted using concrete screw anchors, also for the 2 top anchors. The stamping on the head told me exactly which screw anchors these were. Hilti HUS-HR, D10mm x 85mm. Now the funny part. I used to work at Hilti, in the Headquarters in Schaan, FL. Most of the testing and technical documentation at the time is produced there, for all the regulatory approvals, development and what not. I've also had set these anchor myself in the past, as well as access to all the CAD files, because at the time I was a design engineer for power tools at Hilti. So in short, I knew exactly what these anchors were, and that's why they got my attention in the first place. Otherwise, I'd probably not have noticed the type of anchors used at all. Also, these anchors are weeell established in the industry and around for a long time. They get used in industrial applications all the time. Now when I was there climbing, I continued climbing with my friends and we had a great time, nothing ever failed or started to in the slightest. But once I was back I started to think a bit more about it and I don't really know what my opinion is on that. On one hand, there is the officially approved data sheet, which says that this bolt has a failure load of 16kN tension, and 33 shear in non-cracked concrete and 9kN tension and 28.6 kN shear in cracked concrete. Yes these numbers are for fairly high quality concrete, not Rock. But these numbers are tested with the bolt only 70mm deep, while at the wall, they are set like 85mm minus the thickness of the hanger. So these numbers seem super good enough. On the other hand, it kind of worries me that there might be a trend starting (here in Switzerland at least, tho other than this place, I haven't come across any other routes set like this yet) were people start using these screw anchors regularly and without much thought. They are pretty convenient after all, you're probably twice as fast in setting the bolt than with other methods. They are quite expensive, especially the Hilti ones (like 7.- a piece) but there are many cheaper brands. So I don't know concrete screw anchor in particular, but I know screws in general very well and the thing which worries me is the fact, that these are still screws, and screws come loose over time. Yes, these screws are tested in any imaginable environment. Salty surroundings, in seismic active settings, material fatigue is taken into account and lots more. But Rock kind of lives. Rock can be dense, perfect and strong, it can be impure at times or it can be a pile of rubble in many places. It changes all the time, through erosion, earthquakes, avalanches, water which freezes to ice and expands. And all these things are generally NOT a place, where a screw excels. You DON'T want to use screws there, maybe anywhere. But these things are just so convenient, if the rock is bad, I'll just set one which is double the length, or backup the anchor with a third one, because it probably still takes less time, than glue-in's. So that's it. I don't know to be honest. On one hand, I don't really care, on the other hand, it worries me a bit. But what are your thoughts on it? If you managed to read all the way through :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Interesting. Do you have anything to do with the Hilti Rotary hammer drills? I have some of the same concerns about concrete screws. I use the Titen HD version all the time for temporary anchors, anchoring testing equipment and breaking hangers. I think they excel for those purposes. i have installed a few dozen stainless concrete screws as permanent anchors and they seem to be functioning perfectly. I don't install them anymore as I had so many cutting threads (at the end of the bolt) get worn down in the rock. that ruins a bolt and makes me doubt the integrity of the hole. The SS version with hanger is just as expensive as a glue in. What I have settled on for now is wedge bolts for amazing rock and glue ins for everything else. Feel free to email. [e-mail]

[@chrismargono908]

Bobby, this content is great. Prepping for a trip to the Gunks and this is just what I needed.

[@paveltrue]

What a way to become an expert on edge safety :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Ha ha ha ha. More like how to become passionate about edge safety.

[@hankmishima4798]

Thanks for this video Bobby. Have just completed my first outdoor class and set a couple of TR anchors both from bolts and with cams and a rock. Clipped into a hanger and a cam for myself until an anchor was set and checked by my instructor. They both worked! I have a 30' static and just got my first dynamic so I will be likely testing your methods (with a mentor) soon.

[@NPC-fl3gq]

Bobby just seems like the most awesomest bloke that ever awesomed!!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

I wish.

[@timoimmonen1861]

Thank You, it's good to review the basics once in a while. Finland gives 10 points.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you got some value out of the video.

[@timmyross1487]

thank you for this i learned alot about edge safty and the danger of edgeing

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoyed it.

[@jerek9378]

Being so close is spooky, and its easy to get carried away. Just remember to practice safety around edging on cliffs

[@gergomeister]

Thanks for the great content! And don't mind if the topics that you want to talk about are already covered by other channels. Your experience brings a lot of value and the way you deliver your content is way more digestable than on other channels! Respect!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks you. I keep looking up subjects and saying to my self, this video is so well done that I would just be copying it if i covered this content. Lots of really Creative and talented people out there creating content. I wish I had this resource when I was learning.

[@DANDthekid]

Yay! I’m so happy to see you are making content! I loved watching videos that you were featured in, and every time I would say to myself “that guy is a “FWOK” (a F’ing wealth of knowledge)” I look forward to more videos!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for the support. Still very involved with Hownot2. I enjoying creating this content tho.

[@kyleloerzel8852]

Bobby is just splendid to listen to

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks so much.

[@emCEEoh]

5 5 alive - very helpful. Also the point regarding the root zone being solid.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Good, I thought that was great when i learned it.

[@charanvantijn541]

Another perfect video. Clear, concise, not hurried, no time wasted. Video A OK, Audio A OK. Information A OK. Thanks Bobby!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for the positive feedback. Those were all the marks I was trying to meet.

[@stefanomorandi7150]

i can't get enough of your safety tips! this is amazing content and very well explained and valuable to both new and seasoned rope-players, keep up the good work Bobby

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you like them! Keep playing on those ropes.

[@TheRopeAccessChannel]

That never and always remark is spot on man! Great video again Bobby.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks again. Sounds like you have dealt with those types of attitudes as well.

[@lorisorzan1450]

Your voice is very pleasing to hear. Cool content too!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@Crewmaac2]

Really enjoyed this video Bobby! It was great meeting you - Hope to see more videos from you soon!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks, it was a pleasure climbing with you.

[@dannyCOTW]

Man this is so nice. I remember trying to set up my first top rope outside. I was crawling to the edge and then the anchor was still barely in reach even with my wingspan. This is way less sketchy. Awesome work!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Been there, done that. Glad we both lived thru it.

[@tommylee3834]

was always wondering when you were going to make your own channel; happy to see it pop up on my recommended. love the vid!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Well, I got the covid in the midst of bad weather window, so I finally broke down and started to learn how to edit.

[@christyl5481]

Thank you thank you thank you!!!! You’re a good soul, I appreciate this clear cut presentation. Also I’m glad to hear you made it out of your life or death fall.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you got some value out of the video. Super stoked that I survived and can still climb.

[@joshuastratton6576]

I'm so glad you have a channel now! YES to Bobby content! You're a entertaining and enthusiastic teacher!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks! I am enjoying making these videos.

[@joshuastratton6576]

How's the water running through there right now? Had a buddy there the other day who sent me some insane pictures! 😳😳

[@joshuastratton6576]

@@bobbyhutton1989 are you local to that area? Curious where you're from. You should do an "About Bobby" episode!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

@@joshuastratton6576 Water is still high, too much rain to climb anyway. Yeah that is my local crag.

[@JimmyGrahamPhoto]

Thanks for all the knowledge Bobby, you’re one of the few channels I genuinely support. Keep killing it and hope you know there’s thousands of people eagerly waiting for the next upload, keep killing it dude.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for the kind words. i am working on a handful of videos that I will probably release this fall. Finishing up an exciting one the will be published on Hownot2.

[@TheMilkMensch]

This is the channel I'd recommend to someone who wanted to start learning about outdoor climbing. It's informative, and succint.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thank you. Working hard on the edits to keep these short and sweet

[@testboga5991]

Wow, just found your channel after seeing you often on How not 2. You're one of my favorite climbing educators on KZbin. Keep the videos coming 😊

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Welcome aboard. I appreciate the kind words.

[@Orion_5764]

Another absolutely banger video, man I am loving to new videos

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you are enjoying them, thanks for watching.

[@hedleydude234]

It's awesome seeing new content from you! Thanks for all that you do :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoy it! Thanks for watching.

[@MichaelWilliams-xs1cf]

Outstanding, I'm glad you made this

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you liked it!

[@tbeaudrie13]

Thanks for the content Bobby! Always good to refresh and/or learn new things! All your videos are so detailed yet you make it so easy to understand the systems. Love that your passing your knowledge on to others!!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for the positive feedback. It sure is a lot easier to teach these concepts concisely when you can spend 5 hrs making 5 minutes of content.

[@Miminyte500]

Apart from all the justified praise of the content of the videos I want to highlight the editing. The videos are paced nicely, the information is not overwhelming while also being concise (this has to do both with editing and with the way you talk and present information). Do you have somebody helping you with the filming and editing side of the channel? If somebody else is doing the editing (which, if it produces videos like this, is great) I'm slightly worried about some information not making it through the editing process. I just don't want your message to get cut down in the name of snappier editing, shorter videos or "more interesting" content. Anyways, it's an absolute joy to watch your videos and they're quickly becoming my favorite KZbin "series."

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks so much for the kind words. I am editing the videos (and filming them). I am learning a ton about the editing process but working with Ryan on Hownot2 has given me a pretty clear idea of how I want content to look. Ryan looks over all my videos and gives a ton of helpful advice on content and editing choices.

[@z1522]

Solid, practical advice. The tree tie could be done with the triple wrap, a fig. 8 eye and locking biner to the incoming line; this creates practically no strength reduction. If this were a summitting scenario, the main rope left available might allow anchoring quite a ways from the edge, if no closer reliable anchors were found, but this might necessitate moving down the line closer to the edge for communication, and not pulling belay rope over the edge. Situational flexibility, and familiarity with a few alternatives to the formulaic systems taught now, can help a lot to avoid needless compromises. The rule of "redundancy" is touched on, and the concept has value wherever anything might somehow be tested to a limit - but master points, belay devices and biners, harness buckles, and such are all non-redundant, in ordinary usage - but sound ropes, locking carabiners, belay devices simply have never failed where used to mfg. specs. Misuse and rockfall can bypass the normal parameters of things; things move and unclip, probably 100-1000 X more often than they break. Slings and ropes abrade dramatically, for example, under tension in a diagonal fall, across coarse granite - one climber following a traverse in the S. Platte took a mild penduluming swing, and found himself hanging from just a couple core strands of the rope(on display in Neptune Mtning). Testing equipment can reveal both surprising strengths, and weaknesses, in commonly used gear and setups. But developing an awareness of what to avoid is not a simple checklist; experience and sharing close calls can be more valuable than any quick "How To" video. User error is much more likely to result in accidents, than from using "old fashioned" methods which are still mostly "good enough."

[@bobbyhutton1989]

A bit long and rambling so not sure I can reply adequately, but I will try. There are at leaat a dozen variations you could use to tie off to a tree that would work perfectly for the task. The friction less hitch you mentioned is a great one, ultimate strength doesn't matter in this context, but it is vey simple and can use a knot most climbers already know. No substitute for experience. You do have to start somewhere to gain that experience tho.

[@lightpixeldotnet]

We need a "Stay high, dont die" T-shirt with the pose on it at 7:34 🤣

[@bobbyhutton1989]

funny

[@LachlanBradfordWest]

Perfect content. It's short and sweet. Very helpful thank you.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad it was helpful!

[@novadea1643]

Very informative and well covered, while the only really new thing I learned was the "five five and alive" phrase I still enjoyed all of it. Great work, subbed for more quality content.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thank you. I loved that phrase as soon as I heard it. I have been told it is based on some pretty exhaustive research and testing.

[@Aeronaughtica]

Bomber content Bobby! Thank you!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@bobbyd7363]

exactly what i was looking for. thanks Bobby!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad I could help.

[@MAV3NX]

Another tight and succinct video. I wish this type of content was available 30 years ago when I started climbing. I had a really old book on climbing and following the methods from it would certainly frighten most modern climbers. 😁

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thank you. I collect those old climbing and mountaineering manuals bc I think they are fascinating.

[@shatter98]

This is great content Bobby! Sometimes the simple stuff is stuff that nobody else is covering and needs to be covered for the beginners out there.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks. That was what I was going for.

[@mastheadmike]

Excellent and concise. Great content. Fantastic delivery.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you liked it! That is what I am working for.

[@doutiful23]

Bought to climb at Red Rocks in Vegas. Thanks for the good vibes Bobbaaay

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Right on.

[@patrickkillian5925]

Such important advice- even on super good terrain crap can happen so I always make sure myself and anyone up there with me are safety lined when we get near the edge. Personally I usually just pre-tie a catastrophe knot at about the distance of the edge and then clip it to me before I even clip on a cinch/gri-gri but I do see the benefits to tying it right where/when you need it too

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Great method. Quick and easy to tie another one if your guess is wrong.

[@bloodink9508]

This is great. I would love to see it from edge approach to anchor set up start to finish to the point where one is ready to climb. Loving these videos. Thank you.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

I thought about it but there are a lot of systems to cover. My goal is too keep these videos short and digestible in the hope that people retain the info and not get overwhelmed.

[@bloodink9508]

@@bobbyhutton1989 I totally get that. I suppose I was considering such as in a series. Ie after you've individually covered the itinerant portions, then doing a a-b-c...referencing your previous videos where applicable. Regardless it is appreciated.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

@@bloodink9508 Totally. KZbin makes it easy to do that. Actually I will link the Hownot2 TR vid when I get a chance.

[@bloodink9508]

@@bobbyhutton1989 whoot! You're a gem. Often I see climbs with a walk up path, but the bolted anchors are well below the edge. It would be great to know the safest manner of setting those up with confidence.

[@zjames1324]

Amazing guide as always. CRG is one of my favorite jems of California!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Same here. It is a nice to have it just down the road.

[@dann3skjold]

Loving the content, Bobby. Glad to see you on KZbin still!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks. Still on KZbin, still very involved with Hownot2.

[@mavrickbrand5507]

Wow I just noticed today you have a KZbin channel. Super happy to watch your content, I enjoy all you share. Thank you

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Welcome. Glad you are enjoying the content.

[@user-my6vh7fj9t]

I have always been into rock climbing but never had the opportunity to learn (curse of a tiny town) now that im in a bigger city I will be going to a climbing gym regularly. Thanks for relighting that passion

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad to hear that, The sport gas brought a lot of meaningful connections and opportunities into my life. My goal is to pass that on when I can.

[@error.418]

Really excellent pacing on your presentation. Very clear. Loving your work!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you liked it! Those were the boxes I was trying to tick.

[@Com_Truise]

Good work, Bobby! You have one of the most informative climbing channels on KZbin these days. Keep the content coming!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Appreciate the flattery. Lots of great content creators out there. I just learned a new technique, that I will use all the time, the other day from Tom O'Halloran over in Australia.

[@QuentinLeCalvez]

Love it, learning stuff. Keep it up Bobby! 🙏

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks, I am am learning stuff as well.

[@masonmcelvain442]

I too am lucky to be alive after decking from the top of a climb when I first started out. Thank you for taking the time to make this video! Will definitely be shared with all the gumbies in my life :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you are still with us.

[@truthdefenders-]

Good stuff Bobby, keep them coming. Thnx

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks, will do.

[@ottard]

Another great video! Answers a lot of qusetions i've had.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad it was helpful!

[@LocalConArtist]

Sweet content, I have been thinking about this for a while thanks for the explanation

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad it was helpful.

[@dannyswayze2133]

Amazing information Bobby! This WILL assist the community in making safer decisions out there. Thank you.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad it was helpful!

[@derekherman5159]

Thank you! Everyone says to setup a top rope as a new climber but I hadn't found a good video explaining how to safely set one up.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

I noticed the same thing.

[@turboterie]

Thanks for this video! I find it really helpful. Some of our route setters here in New Mexico have been super awesome and placed bolts at sketchy anchors so we can use a PAS but this is also good information to have. It looks like you could set up a safe rappel off this as well.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you found it helpful. Yeah, rappelling off this is fine as long as your rope is long enough and the edge isn’t too sharp.

[@TreeClimbsdotcom]

Good to see you putting those tree climbing skills to good use! 😉

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks 👍

[@theirontower4597]

I miss that gorge so much, Ill watch every video you make there lol! Its where I learned how to transition from the gym to trad, such a perfect place for teaching and teaching videos!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Absolutely. I spend a lot of time there during the winters.

[@DarkSliders]

Awesome video, I needed some reassurance on this, and you addressed the issues really well and in detail. I didn’t see much about padding on edges though, and I’ve always been wondered whether you should have some when belaying over an edge from the top.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

That could be an interesting topic. Most ropes are pretty tough, but if the edge is sharp enough, think something you would be uncomfortable standing on bare foot, I have seen ropes part really quickly.

[@jonathangonzalez1988]

Pretty much exactly how I was taught edge protection! These are some pretty important and fundamental skills for anyone looking to set up top ropes. Thanks for the video, I'll be sharing this with my buddies 😁

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the share.

[@GamingAegis]

Bobby once again with a banger ❤‍🔥

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for watching!

[@Alvinyokatori]

You got me thinkin… made some improvements to my usual system when I was out today !!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Rad!

[@chrissonnenschein6634]

Breath of fresh air to hear a pov separate from the all-too-familiar “SuperGoodEnough&HOW⁉️” YTChannel to the all new “DoesBH👍🏼😃OR👎🏼😬&WHY” Channel .....

[@bobbyhutton1989]

It takes all types.

[@chrissonnenschein6634]

@@bobbyhutton1989 Yes indeed.

[@steejans]

This is super helpful. Thanks!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad it was helpful!

[@jnyne3303]

Hell yes Bobby! Good stuff

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jermainelewis9678]

Great video, Bobby 👍👍

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks 👍

[@matthews7732]

Great content Bobby!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for watching!

[@pstathopulos]

Great video!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@lucasfreeland8412]

Thank you for this!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad it was helpful!

[@zees4587]

love the Nalgene for scale! thanks.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

ha ha ha. i had to do so many takes my voice got sore and i needed the water.

[@xsk8rat]

A+++ Bobby! We started the climbing a long time ago (19mumblemumble) and the first three climbing magazines we bought each had a note about separate articles about different "fall while setting up TR" accidents. There's an extra lanyard on each harness to allow us to leave the safety anchor as the fourth anchor in TR the set up (it's the back up back up). Always clip in please. We make it a verbal check between husband and wife-boss while setting up the climbs: "You clipped in?" "Yeah, you?" or "Shit! I am now!"

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thank you! All good advice. Buddy (or spouse) checks are often skipped over to our cost.

[@jamestalo9533]

I saw on a rescue demonstration video. The rope is wrapped around the object and the wraps hold the load and the carabiner is the backup to the wraps holding the load.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Frictionless hitch. Works great for trees. Takes a ton of rope for most rocks that won't move.

[@Saeched]

Another great video! Please could you do something like an ‘about me’ type of video? I would be interested to find out how you got into climbing, some of your favourite trips, what you do for work these days etc!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Maybe. I am pretty shy. Ryan on Hownot2 gets personal details out if me every once in awhile.

[@rowanboutette4119]

Great video! Not sure if it was mentioned but it's probably a good idea to put a stopper knot in the end of the rope

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Absolutely.

[@matheushorstmann1816]

Rope protection system is an interesting subject. I usually make mine with segments of used firemen hose.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Totally. I have used fire hose. The next batch I get I will probably split length wise so it can be added after the system is set up. A prussic on para cord is a great for positioning

[@nick1657]

I’ve definitely had some sketchy times setting up my top rope solo anchors at Cosumnes. Looking back I definitely should’ve done something like this

[@bobbyhutton1989]

You and me both.

[@johngo6283]

Superb explanation about a very important topic that for some reason is rarely covered. If you lack a Grigri, a prusik hitch and a cat knot work fine too.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thank you. I don't see people using the single prussic much anymore. Fine in my opinion if tied properly on newish cord on appropriate diameter rope. There have been enough accidents with single prussic that you rarely see that method taught.

[@johngo-jl3uz]

@@bobbyhutton1989 Yeah I don’t think anybody would ever advocate using a single Prusik as the lone back up. But in this case, the primary system is you not being a klutz and stumbling off the edge. The back up to your coordination is the hitch, and the back up to the hitch is the cat knot. Now, if you’re talking about actually going over a real edge and hanging in space and putting your whole weight on it, then I think Grigri is a much better choice. Excellent video series, thanks for contributing to climbing education.

[@lleberghappy]

Nice! A hand on step by step guide for safe climbing would be cool. Just like this, examples and bad examples, not just talking. Obviously not instead of a climbing course or experienced company. Useful even for those who have taken a course. Keep it up!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

I plan on covering subjects like this that I feel are important but under covered. My goal is to keep the videos short so more people will absorb the subject. I feel videos like this are a good resource to know what you are looking at when Someone teaches you or if you are more independent a place to start practicing and researching.

[@fionadebernardi7612]

super helpful! thank you :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Glad you got some value from it.

[@oldclimber5502]

Bobby; I think you caught all the gotchas , excellent, I personally hate it when climbers are unprotected at edges. A tip I was given when I started was with slings if your not sure it will stay on, run the sling back and forth like a saw, pops off occasionally ! Nice tip on the double rope around the boulder with a bowline ( new to me )🙂

[@bobbyhutton1989]

After my tumble it makes me real anxious to see people unprotected next to an edge. Hmm, I would be concerned about running my slings getting chewed up running back and forth across a rock. My thought is if there isn't an obvious lip to hold the anchor choose another rock. That bowline with 2 ropes seems to work great. I have used it for zipline anchors in sharper rocks with minimal sheath damage and it came untied easily after seeing 4 kn.

[@surfarden10]

I'd love to see a video about setting up a top rope or fixed line to clean and practice high ball boulders

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Hmm. Could be an interesting thing to explore.

[@mggmuggins]

Thanks for the video Bobby, reliable content on this subject is suprisingly hard to find. One question: when you're using a single point anchor like this it is obviously ideal for the anchor and the place you're setting the toprope to form a line that is perpendicular to the cliff edge. However, there isn't always a suitable anchor that forms a roughly perpendicular line with the spot you want to set a rope. How do you handle stabilization of a single point rappel in those situations? I went with a guide who did essentially what you describe here despite a not great angle.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Great point. Be aware of the angles. Just bc you are tied in doesn't meen you can,t be dangerous. If you have enough rope you could stabilize or position it it with a second leg. You could redirect the line to something closer to the edge, just make sure you won't pull suff down on you.

[@kevinscheetz9643]

To mitigate tree damage, I use 1 inch webbing around the tree. One session might be doing minimal damage, but in a high traffic climbing area little amounts of damage can add up over time.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

For sure.

[@Puddyglum]

Great content! Simple, straightforward. Is this filmed at the Cosumnes River Gorge? I think my climbing partner used that smaller tree to descend down to the anchors. I do kinda wish this walkthrough included descending to the anchors, and then ascending back up -- that part is a bit awkward sometimes if you are setting up a TR. Thank you for all that you do for the community!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Yes. This is at CRG but at spot near the road that people seldom climb. I was filming Solo and couldn’t figure out how to film, do and teach in the edge, though I really wanted to demonstrate that part, not just talk about it.

[@cmjamies3]

Keep it up!

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks!

[@austinwessels]

10/10 would climb with Bobby!

[@olivera9001]

Your making great videos keep it up! I did have a question however, i feel like i see many people let go of gregre’s while rope soloing or even while repelling when they stop to look at holds, rest, ext. would you say it’s safe to do so? I do understand that a gregre is a assisted breaking device but it seems like people are comfortable using at a anchor point to the harness without holding tension.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Obviously it is fine enough of the time for people to develop those habbits. It is the edge cases like thin ropes, worn grigri or other wierd friction situations that will get people with bad belay habbits in trouble. In my opinion tying a catastrophe knot when you take your hand off the break strand will go a long ways toward preventing avoidable accidents with serious consequences.

[@3dagedesign]

perhaps you also could cover using a rope protector on edges, and how to deal with Descending/Ascending, while using a rope protector.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Yeah that could be interesting. I once spent a morning searching all over Moab for a solution to protecting 400 ft of rope on a desert tower. We ended up cleaning out a flooring store of all their carpet samples.

[@johngo6283]

@@bobbyhutton1989 auto parts store. 1/2 inch heater hose line, sold by the foot. Slice it lengthwise, put it over your rope, tape it in place, done, kaboom!

[@Spinsser]

Thank you Bobby for the great content as usual I would like to add my 0.00002$ to the topic. I think it's better to tie a slipknot as a catastrophe knot instead for the overhand on a bight. The reason being that it's easier to untie when the Grigri is stuck on it; otherwise you'll have to ascend the rope and it's particularly challenging in an overhang. This is just a minor nitpick but I think it's good to build systems that work everywhere. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

I know people who use slip knots. You need to be careful to set the knot as it can come out easily due to movement or rope weight. I tried it and didn't find that it saved me any time or effort and I wasn't ever positive it would be there if I needed it.

[@lawlawlo]

Enjoying the vids. Anything more to look forward to in the future with Ghost Town Living?

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Nothing on the books, but my invitation is still good I believe. We have been there since the videos and put in more routes.

[@vinceimp9581]

Hiking to cliff dwellings in Arizona and other trails in the superstitions has me looking for cross over items to help deal with border line climbing situations. Using a BD grappling hook as a pack hanger was my first idea and having a foot loop for a step along with it was another. Any input or ideas you can share in a video may be something sorta new to YT and helpful to a wider range of folks. I find myself really enjoying myself as a learn about this stuff even if I'm not using it quite as intended. Thanks for sharing and you really are enjoying the comments if you made it this far, take care and be well.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Interesting. Using an aid hook as a single point anchor is out of my risk tolerance. I would have to see what trails you are on to have any meaningful insight.

[@vinceimp9581]

Its hiking trails with something you can get up with nothing really, think of a step you wish was about a foot or so shorter that I use the hook on solo. I may experience 2 or 3 situations where you want just a bit of assistance to make it easier in boulders or maybe a person hight ledge is the biggest drop im dealing with. Totally understand not wanting to give possibly wrong or bad advice out of your experience tho. Thanks, take care and be well.

[@vinceimp9581]

If you were curious devils chasm cliff dwellings in the serria ancha wilderness and FlatIron trail/ Ridgeline trail in the superstitions are some prime examples of the more extreme hiking I've been on.

[@tdobson2]

Hey Bobby, quietly and with much respect, I appreciate these videos. One thing that drives me maaaad is myths and Sort-of-myths about climbing. Obviously some of these are covered on The Internet, but I wonder if some things about climbing might be in scope for channel. Is it bad to have a sling round a boulder that only just fits (think of the angles!!). What sort of load does a sitting down body belay support? (When should it/shouldn't it be used?) What are the risks of standing up and belaying (or not!)? How much wear on my rope should I expect whilst top roping? Huge gratitude for the time you put into these videos. I think many people don't realise how much effort and thought go into 6 mins of content (let alone the time to learn this in the first place). I do. fistbumps :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for the nice note Tim. Almost sounds like to have been reading my episode ideas. Laying down while belaying and hip belay are on the list. re slings around boulders. I think people get confused about tri load with metal goods, how angles multiple force on bolted or trad gear and how soft goods handle loads. Force wise a sling around a boulder is full strength or better, provided any sharp edges are padded properly. Of course there are other considerations like stability, security and redundancy. Top Rope wear will vary a ton based on how careful you are about preventing the rope from rubbing against the rock, the rope itself, the weight of the climbers, how fast you lower etc. writing that out I think there might be an episode there.

[@tdobson2]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I hear what you're saying. Thanks for putting so much thought and effort into this. :)

[@Victor-Michael]

Great Video! could you do a video on Pulley's uses in rock climbing

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Hmm. What are you thinking specifically? Unless you big wall their use is pretty limited. Progess capture pulleys get used a lot for TRS. Am I missing any common uses?

[@Victor-Michael]

@@bobbyhutton1989 that was my impression that they had no common uses. Not to long ago whilst out a crag I saw a couple using a pulley on a top rope set up with carabiners just for redundancy which got me thinking if I was missing uses for then.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

@@Victor-Michael I have seen people use pulleys for TRing once or twice. Usually the amount of friction from the TR anchor is welcome. I had climbing mentors who had the DMM revolver pulley carabiners on their TR set up for a minute until a big fall sent the belayer up past the climber. Those carabiners sat on a shelf after that. Edit to say: I had the same impression about Pullys when I started climbing so I bought one. Never used it for recreational climbing. Pulled it out of the closet after 5 years for MA systems pulling heavy stuff into trees building challenge courses. I will add a pulley to the Ascending system I used in the last video.

[@johnmartin4427]

You the Man Bobby! Great video! Addressed my concerns. 2 Q’s. (1) How long, diameter, static safety rope? (2) Timber hitch around tree? will not slip to damage rope or tree?

[@bobbyhutton1989]

1. I generally have about 100 feet of 10mm or larger static. I like the abrasion resistance of thicker rope and the 10mm still functions well in the Grigri. Check the specifics on your device. Length depends on your area. 2. Never used or seen a timber hitch used in life safety applications and a quick google didn't show show life support use.

[@johnmartin4427]

@@bobbyhutton1989 - Thanks, I like your content and style.

[@Hunting4MadV]

good one Bobby :)

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Thanks for watching.

[@stephaned.5177]

Thanks, great video! I thought that you always need redundancy so when rappelling a grigri wouldn't be enough and you like another brake like prussik or else. Maybe you can prevent that by tying knots in advance on your rope let say every 3/5 m?

[@bobbyhutton1989]

If that makes you happy. Make sure you get a second harness and rope as well, for redundancy. In all seriousness it is up to your comfort level. For me the assisted braking of a grigri provides the same functionality as a third hand friction hitch for an ATC. It is a back up if you let go.

[@stephaned.5177]

@@bobbyhutton1989 Probably that's me being paranoid, I've heard about pulling too much on the handle of the grigri and fall. I can use grigri+... 😉 And you are right I don't use 2 harnesses and 2 ropes. I've never used a grigri to descend, usually ATC and breaking knot. Keep up with the good content love you work and Ryan's

[@AcenZac]

Amazing, thanks Bobby! Do you ever feel a need to backup a grigri? Wife and I have just gotten into outdoor lead and are curious if we should drop our ATC for rappel and just eat the additional cost and have spare grigri available.

[@Uri18]

Hi! The grigri is a great tool, but it does need a backup specially if you are goingo to release the tension by tanding up on something. Personally I find it easier to go hands free while rappelling by using an extended ATC with a third hand below it. Bobby tied a simple overhand knot on the break strand as a backup.

[@bobbyhutton1989]

Several considerations. For a "normal" rappel with the rope folded in half, you would need to fix one side as the grigri only accepts 1 rope. Several ways to that fairly efficiently. Re: backing up grigri for rappel, i feel the assisted breaking function serves the same purpose as a third hand. I do see people add a third hand to thier grigri rap. Personally I carry both for multi pitch. The extra weight on my harness saves a ton of wear and tear on my hands and elbows. Belaying from the top anchor with a grigri is vastly superior to an ATC Guide in my opinion.

[@Uri18]

@@bobbyhutton1989 same here, my wife and I each of us always carry an ATC and a grigri on multipitch. The grigri is really nice to have on self-rescue scenarios for progress capture and to lower someone.