Don’t go to proshops that take advantage of people

[@RipeorRuin]

Pro shop malpractice caused me to damage a nerve in my hand. It took 6 months to heal. Not only a bad fit, but he reversed the index and ring finger measurements. I had to stand there and show him the fit before he would measure the drilled spans. Still haven’t found a proshop in this town I trust. I did finally get a good fit at the ITRC, but now I want more span so here we go again😮

[@TerryBollea1]

No. YOU caused it by not stopping when started to hurt!! Stop putting blame on others!!! Be a man!

[@scottashley3906]

You are absolutely right JR. It is real rare that you find a pro shop owner that does those things to truly help the customer. Money money money. Your spot on. Keep up the great work. I am in California and if I am ever out your way, I will definitely come and see you. Thanks again.🤙🏿🤙🏿

[@shadowthagreat]

Give me 10min and $300 is absolutely hilarious 😂😂😂 I started bowling 1yr ago and boy did I learn in my first 6 months of bowling about “Pro shops” taking advantage and how improper ball fit can cause permanent damage.. my thumb hasn’t looked the same since, but that didn’t stop me from going 2hrs out of town to find some people I could trust.. now I use JOPO grips and they were a game changer!

[@lonestarpatriot876]

I have probably been to over 20-30 pro shops in multiple states, and none of them will take the time to watch you bowl and get your PAP, Rev Rate, Axis Tilt, etc. I have asked many to do so. The answer is always the same. Many of them have been condescending and say things like "It really does not matter until you get to a more advanced level" without knowing what your level even is. Even if you give them your personal numbers, how do you know they are drilling the ball with a layout that is good for you? People should not have to take classes on how to get all of those numbers and how to properly fit and layout balls. They shouldn't have to buy tools, etc. It is honestly a black cloud hanging over a sport that has been struggling to grow to begin with. Pro shop owners are the front lines of the bowling industry. They need to rise to the occasion.

[@JDShawBowling]

I’m a newer pro shop in the lower NM area. I have a hard time talking people into the full process. All they want is a “match this” span and layout. I welcome / beg for the bowler that comes in that actually wants there specs! I think a lot of it is I’m only 2 years into drilling and we have decade plus shops they’ve been going to for years that they trust more. But as a pso the best feeling is giving someone that perfect fit and the straight off the press strike! “I DRILLED THAT!”

[@randymelissabutton2159]

I have 100% gone through something similar. I went to a ProShop that measured my hand, drilled the ball, and never once watched me throw before or after, never measured my PAP or anything. THEN after searching for a coach ended up with a PSO/coach that absolutely would not make an adjustment or drill a new ball for me until he watched and video taped me throwing the ball, and measured my PAP AND Verified it. My wife and I both have increased our averages 30 pins (we both were both fairly new) with instructions and proper fit....I still support the Local Pro Shop buying accessories, but I will never let him drill another ball for me....

[@AlexSanchez-sd4on]

This Is one of the reasons why i love your videos and your honesty.👌👌👍👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[@SukaLangley]

That’s why I love SilverCreek Lanes! They measure and fit and check on how you bowl and comfortable! One of the best proshop! Even resinous refit worn out finger tips or re-sand older thumb hole to make it fit and make sure it feels good before we go to the lanes!

[@Buds-Corner]

The pro shop I go to. All first-time drilling are by appointment. He wants to get all the information including pap, and seeing you throw. Also gives great recommendations. It's actually a breath of fresh air. Going to him, he's friendly and does not seem bothered by the fact you are there. I go into some shops and it's almost like they don't want the business. They seem bothered by the fact u want to get a ball or tape or whatever. I understand dealing with annoying customers. But if u are that miserable doing it. Why bother.

[@bbfeign1]

The pro shop i visited in the states was pretty much as you illustrated

[@TheVlad1616]

This is why I am so thankful for my PSO. he let me make a minor span change once against his better judgement and it took a long time for me to get that fixed.

[@badbadbowling101]

Yea sir the right way is the only way. I preach this make sure your operator does things the correct way.

[@marym470]

A lot of pro shops really don't know, went to school that taught them to put holes in a ball. One week of training don't know anything about layouts how to find your PAP. Or even if you are high track or low track roller and don't care. Every ball has the same layout. Made me buy all the equipment and drill my own and husbands balls, have layout tools scales gauges and all. Not to mention Pro Shops around me all closed so alleys could open game rooms.

[@matthewrowan6041]

Oh, this is so true anytime I’ve been to a Brunswick shop. They’re purposely drilling my stuff neutral

[@raidmagic]

lol sounds like the shop at my home alley. I use a shop at a different alley.

[@MM3ScubaSteveUSN]

Elise Bolton clip was a nice touch; shout out to the Nate and Elise channel. Good vid! 👍

[@Victriol]

As a coach, I make my students go straight finger tip. I also have sold so many Hustles, Rhinos, Tropical Storms for the local pro shop. This is a great entry level ball, so if they don't want to continue bowling, they are not out too much. I hate pro shops trying to sell a 300 dollar ball to someone who is just beginning. Luckily the shops around me do not do that.

[@TheInsaneShecklador]

Gotta love the editing of JR into the proshop on this one.

[@thomasboyd6242]

It would be nice to get more notice for the clinics. I’ve been following you for several months now and this is the first time I’ve heard of it. I’m in Texas and need to plan.

[@Tenpindoctors]

@@thomasboyd6242 been posting on it for about 2 weeks. There will be more coming. Make sure to follow on Facebook and TikTok as well

[@charlesroulette5296]

It's all about selling the bowler a new ball period.

[@joemandarino9818]

That's why I have Lee at the BETHLEHEM bowlerx drill all my stuff. Never disappoints!

[@scotthoward6070]

Heck, I took ten years off and wanted to get my fit checked. I'm sure my hand changed now that I'm over 60. Nobody at that shop seemed interested in giving me a good fit or making sure the old drill sheet I had was correct. Now I got a mess with 3 balls all different weights and drilling. My original Cell Pearl at 16 pounds. A new 15 pound Hy-Road where my hand doesn't really sit on the ball. We did shorten the ring finger span 1/4 inch and went away with the fingers. My knuckles have to be in the air to get my palm to be on the ball. Yuck. Wish I was closer to Michigan but Florida is a long ways away. A friend of mine gave me a Widow 2.0 hybrid and I had another guy plug and re-drill the thumb. I went from zero to 1/4 left on my thumb and my track changed almost 2 inches to almost hitting the thumb. I'm sure my friend's PAP is not the same as mine. I was wondering if a layout can change the track that much or is it because of the different thumb pitch?

[@jonherman6521]

I can speak from personal experience that there are some ethical PSOs out there. Now, I’m in no way bashing the other PSOs in these communities, but I’ve dealt with two specific ones that are worthy of mention. Mike Kruse, Jr at Kruse’s Quality Pro Shop in Empire Bowl, Sioux Falls, SD, and Anthony Amodeo at BowlersMart in Boardwalk Bowl in Orlando. I don’t claim to understand the nuances of the numbers, but I have never felt like I was upsold on anything. In fact, one year my wife called Mike and asked him what ball she could buy me for Christmas. Mike had drilled all my equipment so he was familiar with what I had. Rather than try to sell her a $200+ ball just to make a guaranteed sale, he told her I had everything I needed. I have only lived in the Orlando area for a few years, but Anthony has always treated me fairly, and has become a good friend. I am very loyal to people who treat me right, and I will promote them in return. Look these guys up if you’re in the respective communities.

[@kevtlee08]

My pro shop doesn’t do any of that stuff. They just ask for what ball and then just drill. So I have no idea about my pap or what measures I should put on my ball. Unfortunately I haven’t really found any pro shop that will take the time to do all of those in my area.

[@CaseyToland]

I wish I had a pro shop owner like you around me. I'm genuinely considering flying across the country with my bag to work with you because I can't even get a shop owner to watch me bowl, let alone give me the measurements they take after I pay them.

[@scottstottsgaming]

Injured myself pretty significantly with what I'm convinced was bad fit and a sprinkling of poorly responsive techniques. Ended up learning 2LS and moving to 2H and doing my own layouts on stuff. Haven't messed with pitch adjustments much because I don't struggle with a lot of the reasons to adjust them, but that's the next step for me. But I'm surrounded by friends who have proshops saying the same thing as someone in the comments below "Layout doesn't matter and I don't need to get your PAP until you get better." That's just ridiculous.

[@jamesheraty8457]

Used to go to the guy my dad went to. The place switched hands and prices went up 30ish percent. Won’t even sell used balls without drilling to lock you to their pricing. Instead, I go to one of the best guys in the Midwest and receive fair pricing. First time he watched me throw and checked my PAP. Also did a lesson with him b/c he’s a Gold ++ I despise shoddy pro shops that just want their buck.

[@ronc127]

The pro shop where I bowl is just like this. They do a good job of fitting the bowl, but they never take the time to find PAP before laying out a ball. I've seen many league bowlers tell me their new ball was laid out like their last one. My question is why, it is a stronger ball with, a different cover stock. I drive 20 miles to go to a better pro shop.

[@ScottyThompson-lt7wl]

Cool video talk tech bowling ball Jr Raymond

[@Greggys10Pins]

One place I went to had me throw a ball a few times to find my PAP, another place did not and were just ready to drill the holes. Which one do you think I went to.

[@BNeault]

Cody, JR sounds like Andrew! When I saw Elise’s video I didn’t realize it was a spoof. Hope you are well.

[@billfleming8281]

If I was in Michigan, I’d be at your posted event on the 12th . I’d really like to meet you and Cody , and learn something at the same time

[@EviLNox8]

How often do you do the clinic? I am interested and I'd be going to this one but I have an injury that's preventing me from bowling for a couple of weeks.

[@zachbonebrake352]

My pro shop guy talked me out of buying a new Mesmerize and instead a $60 used Hustle.

[@audioexperience]

love this

[@JesseDeckJr]

Well what did you do if you have 2 pro shop operators that don't want to help people. I tried to help someone today finding his PAP and reccomend how we might help him. He is on my team so wanted to help. I drill my own equipment and am up 15 pins on my average from 205 last year. We were told off by the pro shop operator that we can't help people becuase it's his teratory. But neither operator will take the time to figure things out.

[@malana2009]

FFFFUUUUUKKK YYYEEEAAAHHHH YO DA G.O.A.T bro. Keep em coming

[@raymonddeleur6187]

I'm noticing more and more pro shops are not alley owned and even less have a relationship with the Alley for any testing/measuring. For example, go to alley A and they own the pro shop, you can generally get them to turn a lane on so the PSO can watch you roll the ball a few times to get measurements (if they do it in the first place similar to the video or they lack the knowledge to properly fit a ball/layout/measurements to the specific bowler or flat refuse to listen to your requests beyond i need a ball - cha-ching). Scenarios I'm seeing more and more...Alley B, Pro shop leased/Appt Only/Only Open during leagues and most of the time PSO bowls in them as well) and they do not have a relationship with the Alley for a lane to measurement/test or when they are only open during leagues there are Zero lanes available during league times.. And lastly, Alley C, PSO leased/Reputable company but no relationship/agreement with the Alley to afford a lane for measurements/testing. So in the case of Alley B and C, you have to pay the PSO fees to get measurements and additionally pay for a lane hourly or per game to be able to get the lane time for the measurements. Also see a lot of similar cases with coaches being independent and no working relationship with any specific Alley(s) so you pay for coach hours plus lane fees separately. Too bad more alleys didn't have working agreements for coaching rates and/or PSO rate or some sort of a working arraignment. Note: if you are a sought after coach, it would benefit an Alley to have an agreement with you as a coach or PSO because you could both recommend each other resulting in increased revenue for you both. I drive a hundred miles to get balls drilled then go back to my local house to test them and back and forth for adjustments. Quite easily can turn a $300 dollar ball into a $600 dollar ball between cost of ball, drilling, fuel, lane fees, measurement costs, etc. Yet another reason we are seeing bowling dwindle IMHO.

[@marcoschavez173]

Went into my local pro shop just yesterday looking to get a Jackal Ambush drilled. Its a pricey ball, i want it done up right, i know that the employee there is just there to take orders and measure hand size. He wasnt taught to measure PAP, or anything else. I know how to get my PAP but dont own any of the gear to do it. I ask to borrow the Armadillo. "I can't do that" I assume he means allow it to exit the pro shop "Can i put oil lines on a ball and bring it in to use the armadillo" "No" "Can i borrow a grease pencil, and do it the slightly ghetto way" "No my boss (who only is in the shop during hours i work) is the only one who can do PAP" ... If i had more money and time id have gone literally anywhere else or just bought the armadillo, or a pencil, or both. Utter BS because they want some reason to make me pay $25 to have them find my PAP (which im not even against, id have paid $25 to either not have to do it or to rent the equipment to do it myself) but instead its this asinine garbage.

[@talkcat10]

Where is your shop located?

[@davidm.2273]

How does a beginner find a good pro shop without wasting a bunch of time and money? I'm in far western Kentucky, about halfway between Paducah, Kentucky and Clarksville, Tennessee, if anyone has any recommendations.

[@stompingpeak2043]

Just get online and call them. Ask if they do measurements of your pap. If not or they have no clue then dont go.

[@YoPhocFays]

I was told I'm too new to have a PAP. So they drilled the balls without it

[@Tenpindoctors]

@@YoPhocFays if you throw it straight or have poor fundamentals still where you have a very inconsistent release then that’s the only time a shop can get away with saying this

[@YoPhocFays]

@@Tenpindoctors thank you for clarifying. I need to see if I'm consistent enough now. Thanks again

[@wms702]

You have to be pretty damn inconsistent or erratic, not to develop some sort of pap. Sounds like either laziness, or relieving themselves of liability for poor performance/results. Either way That’s detrimental to the bowlers enthusiasm and an insult to the bowler trying to learn, and the knowledge they’ve already acquired. That would definitely be a dealbreaker in regards to future sales/maintenance. So much for a can-do attitude.Piss poor customer service. Take your business elsewhere.

[@YoPhocFays]

@wms702 thanks so much for the insite. I think I'm decently consistent. I placed a piece to tape on my ball myself to try to figure out my PAP on my own. I think I figured it out myself. Maybe I could use it on the next ball I get drilled.

[@wms702]

@@YoPhocFays Yes, brother you know what you’re doing, and as your game develops, It may change. So the next time you go to the shop, you tell them exactly where you want that pin placed . Don’t be afraid to show your competency, that will get the Conversation rolling And forces them to engage in conversation about the pros and cons of that pin placement. have faith in your skills, Sometimes if you want something done, you just have to do it yourself.. always keep an eye out for a PSO that you can learn from,talk shop with And convey your strategies to. Being Blown off is just not a cool feeling in any scope, especially if you’re handing money over to them. 💪👍

[@TerryPullen]

I went into my local pro shop last week and ask for a new thumb insert. The owner said "l don't know why people even want inserts, just grip the ball". I left.

[@TerryBollea1]

But you can read a pap by looking at someones track They dont NEED to go roll a ball to find that.

[@Tenpindoctors]

You can get close, not exact. Pap is off the hand not when it hits the lane

[@TerryBollea1]

@@Tenpindoctors never had a problem with it. My whole family has been drilled up based on track.

[@BARBELLS-AND-BUDS]

Yeah, the pro shop in the bowling alley AMF in Sacramento. Lucky bowler.... Anyway, they don't believe in measuring your pap. If you buy more than one ball and want to get them drilled, they'll yell at you. The pro shop operator made my thumb hold wrong and I had him adjusted a few times. It turned out my thumb was swelling up from the fit being improper and he threatened to punch me if I came back in the pro shop again. So I just decided to buy a drill press and drill my own balls. I can't deal with that. I didn't want to have a scene at the bowling alley during my league session. But I was tempted to tell him to throw the first one. I mean I bought a bowling ball there. I had four other balls drilled there. I bought shoes and a bowling bag for them and he has the nerve to get mad at me for asking to do his job right?. That's the first pro shop I've ever been to that doesn't want to measure your pap to drill the ball properly. They just stuck three holes in it and called it good. Right

[@lockedonlaw]

If the first thing a pro shop does is not ask me to roll a ball so they can determine my ball speed, revolutions, and positive axis point, I'm leaving. I don't care if I tell them I have those numbers written down. They could be years old and no longer accurate.

[@s1l3nc3r3]

Also want to mention, even though it's a spoof video, If Jason wasn't good at this job Amleto would replace him.

[@digfidge]

I imagine this is jacob butters nightmare.

[@joemorales3035]

Hey JR, do you do private sessions? I would fly you over to Texas and back home.

[@TheBlueBunnyKen]

I stopped going to my local pro shop, because he could care less about the customer, he just wants your money

[@oldfartbowling]

I did the same ,the pro shop, where I bowled ,charger $75 just to drill the ball), that not inserts that's another $15 ,$65 to 75 to resurface a bowling ball), found a place if you buy a ball free drilling and inserts ,6mo free deep clean ,and old school let me measure your hand, what are you wanting the ball to do and lanes conditions ,was nice to find someone who would like me to improve in bowling, not struggle with the wrong ball or bad drilling,

[@gonzarellious6102]

While I agree with the overall message, we're missing the part where she said she's bowling the following weekend. Changing the entirety of her game in a week seems like it could go sideways. Otherwise, awesome video!

[@TerryPullen]

Nah... I change my game all the time and my average is way over 100.

[@jcc_482]

Elise Bolton? I'm not that gullable.