Doosan Puma MX2100 ST Part 2: Deploying Lean with Machining

[@PiersonWorkholding]

✅ Tired of making 1 part at a time? 👉 bit.ly/3T424GP

[@sabercnc]

This machine makes perfect sense for a part like this. Great to see continuous improvement!

[@brandons9138]

Don't use sequential numbers for your wait codes. Don't go M901-M902-M903. If you have to go back and move things around or re sequence tools, that becomes a HUGE hassle. Skip 5 or 10 codes at a time. So it would be M905-M910-M915 an so on. That way if you need to add a wait in the middle you can add a M912 between the M910 and M915 codes. This makes life much easier especially if you are adding wait codes by hand. In my time on the MX line of machines I came away highly disappointed with it's capabilities. The milling spindle has a VERY small work envelope when it is tilted towards the spindles. It was only able to go .800 below center line and only has about 3.5 inches of Y travel on each side of centerline. I know it's not a full on 5 axis mill, but I found it very limiting. At the same time I was working in a shop that wasn't very well run. They often put me in positions where I was having to work on jobs that were not well suited to the machines.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Great tip on the wait codes!

[@brandons9138]

@@PiersonWorkholding I learned the hard way on a 9 axis Miyano lathe which has 3 programs (channels) running at the same time. Thankfully the Cincom control has a mode which lines up all three programs based on the wait codes. It makes sussing out bad/misplaced/misnumbered wait codes very easy.

[@zackalexander9839]

Yea I agree. We have an Mx2100 and Mx2600 and we learned the same lesson.

[@gredangeo]

Here I was thinking that the wait and go codes were simply M901, and M902. That's it. No order to keep track of. Program A states an M901 first, and then it waits for an M902 from Program B. If Program B reaches its M901 first, it sits until Program A sees M902. Because the pair is always together - M901 EOB, M902 EOB. If you don't care how much further one program gets ahead of the other, you can just delete more and more of the M901 codes, and it no longer waits until it has to. I thought this made the most sense.

[@brandons9138]

@@gredangeo Doing it that way is very dangerous.

[@joesmith2465]

amazing machine so many possibilities any chance of a slightly deeper dive into what is happing in the code and a walk thru? CNC machines fascinate me and I try to learn all I can.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Possibly!

[@thunderthormx]

Was really excited for this video. Thank you 😊

[@chicknc5165]

It is really amazing how many round parts come off a mill and square parts come off a lathe. I never would have thought it before actually becoming a CNC machinist.

[@jeffmushell8329]

Any reason you don’t machine it complete on the Puma to eliminate throwing them on a VF? I’m guessing part rigidity if you were to mill it complete or semi complete.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Machining complete was technically possible but the part's stickout caused chatter since we couldn't use a tailstock for Op2. We achieved much higher throughput running Op2 on our Pro Pallet System instead.

[@BaldurNorddahl]

@@PiersonWorkholding would it be possible to make a custom tailstock for op2? Since it is not rotating it does not need to be a point like a traditional tailstock. Instead it can be shaped after the part, like a pocket that supports the part from the end or from below.

[@yagermeister1303]

Multi task machines are the present and future of turning centers, more flexibility you gain compared to an standard turning center. In my opinion multi tasking machines and swiss types machines are the ones which are going to be sold more in the future

[@Factory400]

The main downside (in 2022) is the complexity of the programming and setup. It's hard to use them for low volume jobs. The software is getting better every day and a machine like this that has capto tooling on a high capacity tool changer is pushing it closer and closer to being the magic machine.

[@brandons9138]

@@Factory400 Not even close to the truth. I've worked on MX machines for low volume jobs in the past. They are not any harder to set up than any other machine type. The ability to do both turning and milling on the same fixture is a huge time saver. I'm currently doing low volume production and prototype work on swiss machines. Same flexibility applies here as well. Trying to do these parts in two ops of separate machines causes more headache than its worth.

[@terrellbradshaw3504]

Yea buddy, NEW VIDEO!

[@tdg911]

Slick machine and engineering. Amazing what these machines are capable of doing

[@hampfi747]

Awesome machine and video! Have you thought about making the pads round and not rectangular? Could be done in two lathe ops from prehardened round bar. A little less contact surface but way less work in making them.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Nope, surface contact is key to good rigid fixtures.

[@theom7476]

Can that part not be made complete on that puma mx2100? If you use a custom square collet on the opposite spindle?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

There are lots of ways to make this part but running single piece flow between two machines is 2x faster. Here's a link to the video for Op2: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iGKZeaVuZs9kbKc

[@cwhuffman01]

What fittings are those used to hook up your through coolant turning tools? The black ones look like your typical push to connect pneumatic fittings, but I cant quite make out what the other metallic ones are.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

They're all push-to-connect fittings and all from McMaster. It was a comical mixture of threads so no two fittings ended up looking alike.

[@m4rvinmartian]

7:30 *What was that parting off tool?*

[@PiersonWorkholding]

We mostly run Kyocera tools in our lathes. If they don't have what we're looking for then we fall back to Kennametal.

[@tonedizzle6289]

Seriously cool video! Can the MX take turning tools in the upper turret as well? This can open up some really fun options as now either turret can work on either spindle at any time. Doing one turret do left and right spindle work while the left side ops (which just tend to be longer) are happening is really neat. You'll love seeing both turrets bouncing back and forth on both spindles in a well optimized program. If you wanna be super bonkers, machine a small sacrificial center in the part in the right spindle to keep the lower turret free by using that as your tailstock. Keep the content coming!

[@Factory400]

It has Capto on milling head that supports lathe tools as well as milling tools. Crazy flexibility.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes, exactly what @@Factory400 said.

[@ricardocastillo880]

I used to program a hyundai with and a hwacheon both used fanuc controller m900 where the sync codes I used to sync pinch turning or mill with both turrets tho this Doosan has a lot more pow woow

[@Max_Marz]

I got really comfortable hand programming 2 axis lathes at my first shop, I'd have cad on one half of the screen and notepad on the other. Just quickly sketching geometry and then selecting points or the centers of circles representing tool-radii for the X/Z numbers in relationship to origin. Please bear with me, I love fusion and I think its changed the world but like.. For turning, two axis lathe stuff and how sequential and 2d the operations are, hand writing becomes very intuitive very quickly. The major bonus is that you're telling the machine *exactly* what you want it to do and by the time you're done you remember where you put stuff, it makes it very quick to iterate changes at the control when you head is wrapped around the code you wrote. Using two different tool offsets on the same turning tool so that you can offset two features differently and track them from the wear page becomes second nature and no extra effort to include. I was only there three years so I havent even scratched the surface on macro's. For all the milling spindle work I'd just post it out of fusion real simple like and paste it in to the main program right where I want it, or hell, call sub programs. Ever since that first shop 10 years ago I have wanted to get back into this kind of thinking and style of work. The production aspects of programming this way are incredibly rewarding and fun. You're completely un-limited by the software. I started with only 2 axis single spindle daewoo/doosan lathes but seeing a machine like this just... ugh... gets my mouth watering for notepad. it sounds weird but try it on a simple part. I think it will make the multi-process aspect of this machine feel really intuitive, the speed these machines operate with barebones carefully placed code is simply a different level. /watch?v=kd4NnoUAk0I ---I wrote this program line for line and if you watch this clip please take notice of how I'm keeping as much rigidity in the bar as I can while I work back the features toward the spindle, finishing and roughing in different places as I go. The feedrates increase as you approach the spindle nose as theres more rigidity and you can feed harder, no need for a parting tool and as soon as the part falls the feedrate can triple because finish no longer matters. Its worth it, the granularity is fantastic. I know you can imagine yourself sitting there for an entire day hand writing a program but isnt that what we do anyways running back and fourth constantly tweaking things? Just write the program you want the first time you dont have to fight the software.

[@mattiasarvidsson8522]

lol .. need a compatible cam system for sure.. For the same parts all the time, maybe not .. but for prototype style work is just a matter of time before turrets smack together, and end up on the chip conveyor..

[@damientoomey1194]

Very cool machine. I’m keen to see more of what it can do

[@PiersonWorkholding]

More to come!

[@zackalexander9839]

What post are you using in fusion for this? How are you able to tell it which channel you are posting for? i.e you are posting to turn or mill with the lower vs posting to turn or mill with the upper. We have only programmed ours with NX and we have to lay the tools out in certain channels to post it correctly.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

It's the latest Doosan Mill/Turn post. You post the upper and lower programs separately as if they were two programs running in two different machines.

[@zackalexander9839]

@@PiersonWorkholding I guess my real question is how do you differentiate whether you are running on the upper or the lower? Because milling with the upper is much different code than milling with the lower live tools as well as turning with the upper vs turning with the lower. I have actually been curious about this for a while. I have used this post for the doosan lynx which is just a lathe so no upper involved and it worked fine.

[@texasermd1]

THAT is a badass machine. Congrats on stepping up your game. 👍🏼👍🏼

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thanks so much!!

[@Kyran31]

Really interesting to learn how this type of machine is programmed, the sexy footage of the parts being made is great and everything but it’s nothing if you don’t know how it was made, thanks for sharing!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thanks for watching and subscribing!

[@MakeTechPtyLtd]

Jay great content and delivery in this video. Well done. Interesting machine. The controller's M code input to the other controller to trigger continue cycle? -Ken

[@PiersonWorkholding]

In a nutshell, yes. The two programs "talk" to each other using the wait codes.

[@Jonnywoods_049]

Is round bar that much cheaper than rec bar? I would think long strips held on a fixture for op1 and then flipped over for op2 would be faster. like a brother r650

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Round bar is typically far less expensive than rectangular. The bigger factor is availability. Round bar is easy to find.

[@Jonnywoods_049]

@@PiersonWorkholding interesting

[@zyndapp800]

@@Jonnywoods_049 It's probably a matter of raw material amount ordered - in case you would like to order 20 tons or more, the difference would be smaller. But then a question will come up how many you will need to machine out of that material😀

[@HondaBoy]

Can’t you simply add the wait codes as a pass through manual data op in fusion?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes. That's what we did.

[@FFAF86]

why not just optimize the first op to make the entire part un attended? then surface grind them when they come back from heat treat?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

The long geometry of the part doesn't allow it to be rigidly held in this machine to make it a 1 op part. Plus, two machines producing parts in 1-piece-flow is much faster.

[@Jimiyohanson]

Why didn't you buy a barfeed?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Only 2 parts scheduled to run on this machine will be spindle fed. The other 12 will be robot fed through the door. We put barfeeders on 2 other lathes.

[@TommiHonkonen]

technically is multi function mill turn center not lathe

[@13anomalous16]

Wait it's pronounced "Espree"?

[@Pondimus_Maximus]

It’s French! 🇫🇷

[@13anomalous16]

@@Pondimus_Maximus I did not know that, thanks

[@brandons9138]

@@Pondimus_Maximus The word is, but the company is US based in Southern California.

[@13anomalous16]

@@brandons9138 i thought they were based in the uk

[@brandons9138]

@@13anomalous16 Well they have offices all over the world, but it's my understanding that the main office is the Camarillo CA is the main HQ of the company. They were recently bought by Hexagon AB Information technology company, so that muddies the waters a bit as to where the actual HQ is. Hexagon is a Swedish company so you could say that the HQ is now in Stockholm.

That's a lot of chips for something called "lean". Square stock and a pattern of parts makes more sense to me. Especially if two machines are used.

[@Factory400]

Time is more valuable than stock. Listen closely to the message....reducing operations, handling, and machine tending by a LOT! The cost of the additional material is a small fraction of the cost of doing all the conventional operations.

[@j.r.3215]

@@Factory400 Not to mention that round bar is usually cheaper than square/rectangle stock as it is easier to produce.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

@@j.r.3215 Right! Good luck finding the exact size of square bar these days. Round bar is easy to find.

[@j.r.3215]

@@PiersonWorkholding Easier to make a round bar square than a square bar round. I wish you had this shop when I lived in Simi Valley. Started on NC machines in 1978 with a GE 550 and 1050 Tape controllers with Williams Research in Ogden UT. We made the Jet Engines for the Cruise Missile. I ran the NC Lathe that cut the main shaft (718 Inconel), tough stuff.

[@jesseservice7828]

Muito bom !

[@stijndegraaf2003]

Dawm fucking smart holy shit

[@bwheeler.]

seems like overkill of a machine to not have dropped it complete... we make a similar part on a Y axis lathe.

[@kwasg3]

Way overproduced video... OK content but cut the useless bling bling