Double Check Raise | Foxen v Soyza | GTO Analysis

[@acernera]

This channel is optimal

[@DanDanOreo]

so goooood....

[@mekanarazmedov1786]

Note on Ax shove on the river. To bet OOP on the river you don't need more than 50% equity vs calling range, because if we check we would get pushed out of pot a lot of the time. So, if we have 40% vs calling range it is better to shove the river than check fold, because this way we realize all of our equity. IP though, to shove river we need more than 50%, and if we are betting and villain can check-raise us, then we need significantly more than 50%, probably close to 60% vs defending range to justify a bet, because we can get check-raised and pushed out of pot. In these spots, IP, if we are deeper and have 55% against defending range, it would smarter decision to just check back and be content with what you get. This was mentioned by Sklansky, Harrington and Mathew Janda in their books.

[@ericstollery1]

My first thought at the solver using Ax as a pseudo bluff on the river is because when ranges become that tight blocker effects become more important, and in that case having Ax blocks villain's nuttiest hands like AA and AK.

[@Gos1234567]

Hang on ,IP shoves river ,well he cant get checkraised can he?

[@MrShanRizvi]

PIO is a little intimidating for me to use but with your videos its become much easier to understand how to use it. Thanks man

[@keithshannon8536]

Glad to hear someone acknowledge the flaws in these computer tools! You made a good point about not going down the rabbit hole of why small variations in EV may happen. People make this mistake a lot with computer Go, trying to determine the meaning of win percents, which is a bad use of the tool. A better use is to just evaluate which move is better. Excellent video!

[@xxxzumaxxx]

Just another live reg choosing the wierdest line as possible, representing who knows... But always with the goods obv

[@Gos1234567]

13.04-- anyone know why the AJs/AJo is the most foldy of the ace hands?;-)It blocks QJ,JT bluffs?

[@Freshiz325]

In the Bryn Kenney Q&A he claims to not do solver work. Can you pick one of his hands to see how he compares to Pio?

[@FindingEquilibrium]

Bryn is probably my favorite player to watch and I've heard him say that as well. I've been trying to find an interesting hand to review. My guess is that he will be closer to the solver strategies than a lot of people think (other than FT where he usually goes crazy).

[@yipsum]

Finding Equilibrium Shame PIO don’t solve 3-way pots. His attempted river bluff against Chidwick and Trickett is an interesting one. Great stuff from you as always thanks!

[@analogdistortion2906]

@@FindingEquilibrium Think he goes crazy at final tables because of reverse ICM, people adjust too much trying to ladder so Brynn kicks the ladder out from under them!

[@johngriller4997]

Robert Rooney yup, this is one of the easiest spots to exploit v players who never let go of ICM.

[@Gos1234567]

@@yipsum Yea in that one he had a blocker to a str8 flush I think,that was a crazy hand.

[@ddhh8253]

That BB range is interesting pre. How accurate do u think those sims are? Did range converter plug u with all the sims for putting then in ur vids? Do they sell an all access pass to all of their content for a few k?

[@dude477]

I believe rather than being an aberration, PIO is advising IP to fold on the river with AJ because the Jack is blocking a decent portion of the Big Blind's pre-flop calling range that still needs to bluff on this River. Foxen has a ton of combos of Trips & Top Pair in his range on this flop to raise for value, so he needs to go pretty wide into his range to balance that with enough bluffs. His highest equity bluffs on such a dry board have to include all of the adventurous QJ combos & several JTs hands with BDFDs. Foxen would still be searching in vain for enough bluffs on both the turn & the river to balance all his Trips combos, especially if he bluff-raised the flop with a big portion of his Ace-high combos as PIO advises. Mostly, Alex would have Check-Called on the turn when his Ace-high combos made Top Pair. So again, QJ & JT are among his highest equity bluffs on the turn & he would need to be prepared to fire the river when he check-raise bluffs the turn. In essence, Soyza has to realize when a paired flop smashes the Big Blind's range, Foxen knows the correct play is to put maximum pressure on him. If he didn't want to see all of Foxen's chips in the middle by the River, Soyza's got to either check it back when he turns Top Pair or realize ahead of time it's a bet-fold situation, because Foxen can only represent a very strong made hand on every street with this board texture. There are simply not enough obvious draws where a blank river might prevent Foxen's River push.

[@longchunpang8011]

I like the short part the equilibrium calling the check raise flop: People in lower stake are not bluffing enough and thus the opener should not call the check raise as much.

[@picasso2058]

show me one hand where a double check-raise is a bluff (from these live pros)

[@JICM25]

I question that aswell

[@Stefanburakov]

But I does not matter against this player, its crazy how its possible to be this bad.

[@JICM25]

@@Stefanburakov what??, Please write what you want to write in you native language adn I´ll go on google translator to understand the fuck you´r saying

[@gtobet]

Thanks nice content. Pluribus hand analysis will be cool too!

[@mr.g6916]

yeah take some weird hands played by pluribus and see how Pio would react to them...

[@LucidVision1]

Great recommendation at the end regarding how you spend your time using the solver... I've wasted too many hours figuring why it would fold a hand like AJ before A6. I often found the solution why, but it has basically no impact on actual play. There are probably multiple cascading factors why BB using solver strategy would be bluffing slightly more often with a jack on that river than other cards. But for it to be correct to fold AJ > A6, BB would have to be playing EXACTLY like a solver.. which literally no one in the world does.

[@LucidVision1]

AJ is the Merge C/R because it allows you to get stacks in when the river comes a K, where no other ace would want that.

[@LappyPoker]

Does changing stack:pot ratio from 7:1 to deeper stacked poker, make a difference in the cbet frequency on the K44r board? I have Nick Petrangelo's WPT course & his Pio says the K33 HJ vs BB is much closer to a check 100 scenario than a cbet 100 scenario. But his scenario also includes a 15:1 stack:pot ratio.

[@abanger]

Is Pio demi-bluffing the river? Does it generally have a demi-bluffing range on likely chop boards?

[@midosianturi1825]

Any chance making a video using GTO+ instead sir? I kinda aiming in purchasing GTO+ or should I save up and get the PIO Basic?

[@Roman-uc3bs]

AJ is folding riv because it blocks Jx bluffs (gutter to broadway on turn), which we prefer to be unblocking. Note that the call EV for ATs is also bad. AQ is the exception because Qx on K44 has more showdown value than Jx and Tx, on average. This is pretty much because JT is a better bluff than KQ or even QJ on the turn. And since all Ax hands here are essentially bluff catchers, the blockers here make all the difference in skewing the decisions.

[@genki2469]

thanks for the content!

[@louberthault4460]

Hey, I analysed this hand with snowie, and at the turn, snowie check 94% of the time, it's discordance with pio analys, you know why ??

[@FindingEquilibrium]

Snowie is not GTO. It's decisions are based on playing itself over and over many times (but not reaching equilibrium) so it will sometimes be close to GTO but sometimes not. I use snowie a lot and my feeling is that it does a lot more slowplaying/trapping than Pio in general.

[@joaoramos1549]

Could you make an analysis of the sam trickett bluff? I'm really curious about pio's point of view on this hand

[@kiitmo]

It's difficult to do that since solvers can only look at 2 players

[@joaoramos1549]

@@kiitmo Oh, that's true, really forgot about this. Thanks for pointing this out

[@PEGATIU]

Thanks for the vídeo!!

[@adamporter1559]

Another great video. Too bad they weren't deep enough for Foxen to go for the triple check raise achievement on the river ;)

[@eldojacob5070]

Why is pio checking most of its range on turn if it was 10s instead of As?

[@FindingEquilibrium]

Betting there is fine as well, but the HJ has more Aces in its range which makes the solver more aggressive with its trips.

[@clevertrevorsdad]

So fascinating

[@steffievasilialeondis7162]

Is this you Linus?

[@patrykpaliga1204]

'stay balanced' love it!

[@peacefulbuddha8361]

The commentary from these now "old school" pros combined with the small amount of subs to this channel (sorry bro😞)makes me feel pretty good about the ability to still make money from live poker in the future. Love these videos. On a side not, I turned a weak pair of As in a multi way pot into a bluff on the turn that was great for my range and everyone folded. Im glad I at least had a chance of it being a good play now that I see pio uses their a's as bluffs on the river.

[@zyzzmirincomeatme]

Where can you find the original clip for this excact episode? I want to see the whole session, because of linuslove. Great analysis as always. Thanks a lot

[@TacoBully]

Erlend Grødal Triton poker KZbin channel

[@zyzzmirincomeatme]

@@TacoBully Thanks, you have a link? Cause I have seen the episode where he x-raise 96o etc, but cant find any clips from this table specifically.

[@Lucymai12]

@@zyzzmirincomeatme www.twitch.tv/tritonpoker

[@zyzzmirincomeatme]

@@Lucymai12 Thanks a lot. I still must be useless. Can´t find this episode, or any more unseen footage of linuslove.

[@FindingEquilibrium]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z3mkkoewnqp-d5Y

[@iraklykhazhomiya8417]

those ranges are for minraise? or maybe 2.3x-2.5x?

[@FindingEquilibrium]

Yes 2.3x. Unfortunately I don't have the solution for a minraise, but I imagine it shouldn't be too different.

[@iraklykhazhomiya8417]

Finding Equilibrium yes, for sure) thank you, great videos !

[@albertopulido4267]

AJ folds at the end due to blocking QJ and JT bluffs. AT folds less maybe because QT or JT would be considered to play less in this way as a bluff by the check-raise player

[@BigD751]

Bonkers

[@nathansmith7335]

another great video - thanks

[@qwertz12345654321]

I think you kinda missed the point of shoving aces at the end. It's a merged bet for fold out chops. Thats why it prefers the large bet aswell. Kinda silly to compared it to an unpaired board where AQ and A3 have different hand rankings

[@eksheshbekele523]

The reason PIO reccomends folding AJ is because the value of calling any Ace comes from chopping with the 'bluffs' and AJ represents a good chunk of the 'bluff' range so blocking the Jack makes AJ the best Ace to fold.

[@ericstollery1]

I think it might also be because you don't want to call with a hand that block's villain's bluffs, which include QJ and JT.

[@gigglesinside]

@@ericstollery1 That's literally what he already said 🙄

[@johngriller4997]

Yeah but Pio recommends oppo to give up all draw hands like QJ, JT so oppo shouldn’t be bluffing these, which makes the unblocking effects irrelevant in this particular spot. We might never know why Pio does this, but like FE says, it has to use pseudo bluffs like Ax to balance.

[@jimmymcgill5572]

God tournament players are so cringeworthy. Foxens eye darts are so tilting

[@PatrickWhatUp]

Why is PIO betting the turn, in Souza’s shoes, when checked to, more with Aces with a better kicker than it does with A6s? The kicker doesn’t even play on this board.

[@FindingEquilibrium]

The EVs and equities between all aces there is pretty close due to the chop so I wouldn't worry too much about the discrepancy. That being said, it appears that pio is decreasing the frequency with the lower kickers because they unblock a number of bluffs Alex may fire with on the river.

[@karlali7155]

Why is the currency in Euros when Britain hates Europe and the event is in London... I think you’re trying to troll me 😂

[@gesus.christ99]

spoiler: 3 people in the world are capable of bluffing like that so i don't understand foxen's fast play

[@samholt8867]

In summary, with common knowledge that double check raises are literally always the stone nuts. Not even Pio can find proper bluffs on this line.

[@jimmymcgill5572]

Sam Holt I did double check raise recently with middle pair. He turned two pair and I over bet river he called. So not always..

[@CodeProvider]

foxen has a tiny mouth. very strange. i wonder how he eats food. i'd like to see it.

[@NikhilAutar]

Ax or Ay here doesn't matter. It's a paired board. Given the action, I'd jam all aces otr as you can fold out other aces, given you have all the 4x in the bb, and occasionally get some kx to call vs sticky players

[@prisonmike3665]

Nikhil Autar yeah, I don’t understand why he went over with the Ax’s.

[@TrustMeIKnowEverything]

Its pounds not euros. As England uses pounds not euros

[@FindingEquilibrium]

Good point!

[@TrustMeIKnowEverything]

Lol no worries great content.

[@garygwin1741]

Bad Call on the Flop.

[@fenikstechnologies1173]

Just saying…….J4 !!!!!!!

[@darthnihiluz5305]

Has anyone check-raised three times? Ha, my new goal.

[@kcc1762]

I did it once like 15 years ago. Would be very tough to do today.

[@gianlucaiotti2371]

I saw holz against chidwick in shrb

[@aaarrg]

If you don't call all in, it's wrong to call on the turn. It is wrong to call in the flop in the first move.

[@hcantrell10]

aaarrg it’s absolutely not wrong to call the flop c/r.

[@kcc1762]

If you fold A high every time you get c/r on a paired board, you will get exploited badly.

[@sharkhax]

I'm constantly trying to follow but you move so fast and show so many different charts, I can't even begin to comprehend... Can you highlight, slowdown, emphasize certain things that you really want us to see? It's just way too much information

[@FindingEquilibrium]

Thanks for your comment. I am trying to make these videos useful across a wide audience from beginner to more experienced, but I will definitely keep this in mind. In the latest video I tried to highlight which aspects of the charts I am discussing which hopefully helps a bit.

[@YayaTourney]

World doesn't revolve around you. Use pause button.

[@CristianCarvajalC]

Why this players goes J-4s and they win and one doesn’t ...sorry but im more tight

[@rashiddavis7887]

He was on the big blind, so it didn't cost him much to call. If things went South on the flop he could have easily folded