The “Real” Tiber Septim - The Elder Scrolls Lore

Mankind's greatest hero has a dark side. Here will be examined those accounts of the legendary Tiber Septim which do not mesh with The Empire's official history. Septim's rise to power, his methods of conquest, his personal conduct, and even the place of his birth are all called into question. Can these supposedly "real" sources be considered reliable, however? Who is the True Tiber Septim?
Credits:
Hieronymus7Z - hieronymus7z.deviantart.com
fkcogus333 - fkcogus333.deviantart.com
Imad Awan - imadawan.artstation.com
Horatiu Mlendea - hmlendea.go.ro
Selann - selann.deviantart.com
Davin Arfel - davinarfel.deviantart.com
Arcvein - arcvein.deviantart.com
Minttu Hynninen - theminttu.deviantart.com
Yves-Antoine Nunez-Godoy - yves-antoine.artstation.com
inSOLense - insolense.deviantart.com
Nikulina-Helena - nikulina-helena.deviantart.com
“Beyond Skyrim: Bruma” Original Soundtrack by
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#elderscrolls
#tiberseptim
#lore

[@DoubleNegative]

Thank you everybody for watching this presentation of The Elder Scrolls Lore! If you like this video and want to see them get made more quickly, then please consider supporting the channel on Patreon. You will be able to read detailed updates on what I’m working on, posted every week, plus sneak previews of the next episode of Elder Scrolls Lore! You’ll also have early access to all episodes of Reading of The Elder Scrolls long before they’re made public. Check out Patreon.com/DoubleNegative to learn more. Thanks again, and have a wonderful day.

[@FuzeKTH]

No problem it was fun chatting and watching

[@FuzeKTH]

Also, how expensive is cryo?

[@richardtorres312]

You’ll get Patreon when you post regularly

[@FuzeKTH]

@@richardtorres312 don't be a dick its not like he's lazy, he spends his time researching

[@MarkyD.Ingram]

What a fantastic video, I look forward to seeing the next video.

[@NoMaloneUnturned2]

Imagine playing as a Nord and killing all the tribunal in Morrowind

[@lukedaniel2892]

I've done it, felt good. Only liked sotha as he was the only one of the 3 that wasn't a self obsessed sociopath

[@lukedaniel2892]

But I headcanon each titles hero is of that region myself. So the Nerevarine is Dunmer, Champion of Cyrodil is an Imperial and the Dragonborn is a Nord

[@512TheWolf512]

literally the race i played morrowind as first

[@Sehtlimbo]

Why? The Tribunals dope besides Almalexia.

[@tough2015]

My Nerevar is a nord who is an Imperial Agent sent to attempt to fulfill the Nerevarine prophecy. Upon completion they were instructed to increase imperial hold in Morrowind (Through the Legion and Cult) then assassinate the Tribunal. They were disappointed they didn’t get to kill Sotha Sil.

[@hossdawg9766]

I really loved the contrasting videos about Tiber Septim. Reminds me of how real world historical figures have good and bad sides but are often only viewed as one or the other depending on the agenda and biases of who is telling the story. It shows how deep and layered some Elder Scrolls lore and history is.

[@YGO_Addict]

THE KING IS BACK! And I don't mean Tiber Septim. Great to see a video made by Double Negative pop up in my subscription. Welcome back!

[@aevvah_flxwer8550]

Same. •́ ‿ ,•̀

[@spudicus7811]

God I feel so bad for poor queen Barenziah , How she didn’t kill Tiber in his sleep amazes me.

[@Marscandy1]

Agreed! I kinda hate him a little more after this…

[@Kainlarsen]

@@Marscandy1 You're assuming her side of it is true, in a universe where truth is utterly ambiguous. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. People lie and embellish.

[@dwight3555]

@@Kainlarsen There is no mention of Ysmir having any contact with Barenziah in this video, if it was true, how did Ysmir learn about it?

[@AthenisOculi]

@@dwight3555 that part was from Real Barenziah not from Ysmir's book, still can be false but not following your point at least

[@dwight3555]

@@AthenisOculi It doesn't change the question of how was that information known? Who did Barenziah say it to?

[@matthewmooon8185]

This version of the assassination of the king is way more believable than the Empire's version

[@johnnygyro2295]

I actually prefer the Empire's version of the Assassination. Tiber actually losing the Thu'um could serve as a wakeup call that he wasn't invincible and explain why he sought other sources of power like the Numidium...

[@killcount4750]

​@@johnnygyro2295he never lost his Shout?

[@johnnygyro2295]

@killcount4750 I need to double-check the wiki then, cause I could've sworn one source, claimed Tiber lost the Thu'um when his throat was slit?

[@TheJoseGarcia325]

​@@killcount4750 he did lose his shout he was cut by the throat and he easnt able to shout fully he could only whisper the thu'um look it up 🤦🏾🤦🏾

[@harveybridgeman6895]

I like to believe that most of the official Imperial accounts of Tiber Septim are true, in that he was definitely from Atmora, that he was definitely Dragonborn, and that he did have altruistic intentions at least in the beginning for wanting to unite all of Tamriel under one banner, though obviously lost sight of it when actually starting his conquest. It does seem plausible he killed Cuhlecain, but maybe he did it to stop the (potentially) evil Cuhlecain from causing further chaos, since he wasn't Dragonborn and therefore not ordained by Akatosh to rule as Emperor, and maybe Tiber/Talos had no other choice. Most of the Arcturian Heresy stuff seems accurate to me as well regarding the nature of Septim's campaign, as it explains in greater detail and justification how he managed to get the more reluctant provinces of Hammerfell, Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Valenwood and Morrowind under the Empire's control. I genuinely think this is the order in which Tiber assimilated them too, since the Redguards were the last of the human races to win over and aiding in their civil war would do just that, the Khajiit to my knowledge didn't pose much of a challenge and so were the easiest non-human race to subjugate first (though I doubt the Emperor himself relished in it as much as his plundering generals did, but still, he did have a slight hand in it), Black Marsh's inhospitable and disease-ridden swamps were reported to have stumped Imperial advances so gravely that Septim had to just accept that only the outer bits of the region could be conquered while the centre was left to a better-adapted Argonian stewardship as a form of compromise, this would've likely humbled the Empire and so would have been the reason for their leniency with Valenwood's Bosmeri defenders, and finally I moreless agree with the situation that transpired with the Dunmer and the Tribunal and that an embittered Wulfharth was involved in it, so Morrowind would likely have been the penultimate challenge of the whole campaign. As for Summerset Isle and the Numidium, I'd say that too is accurate, yet I'd say that this would have been the last straw for Tiber Septim in terms of all the morally dubious events that happened then, and that the rest of his reign after Tamriel's full unification would be devoted to atoning for the tragedies across the continent he allowed to happen. All in all, yes Tiber Septum did have a bit of a muddy reputation in the middle of his story, but the beginning and end show his true character, and that is the real reason for his apotheosis into the honourable, yet controversial patron of all of Tamriel.

[@UncleSheoTV]

I saw the title and was like “oh the real Tiber septim and hour ago... oh an HOUR AGO?"

[@brofenix]

Ouch Tiber. Sleep with Barenziah and then when you find out the result of sex can be a child, order someone to kill the child o.O? Holy shit.

[@cheechong5969]

Is that not the same idea behind abortion in today's day in age? 🤔

[@thefisherman0074]

@@cheechong5969 he's got a point.

[@elle22006]

@@thefisherman0074 NO HE DOESNT???

[@elle22006]

@@cheechong5969 WHAT???

[@cheechong5969]

@@elle22006 is that not abortion? Ordering someone else to kill your child because you no longer or didn't want one in the first place ?

[@evancondon1372]

I cannot tell you how much I missed your content. Glad ur back bro!

[@HelloThere-gk1ye]

Watch the skies, traveler.

[@aevvah_flxwer8550]

What is it? Dragons? (Ngl though, it's just gr8 to see DN again! :D)

[@emperorcheese2370]

What is it? Covid?

[@UncleBushmaster]

You need to finish this series man, all the way to the most recent lore. You are by far the best story teller I’ve come across on this subject and myself and for sure many others are dying for more

[@dancincoolkid]

I like how the mythos of Tiber Septim proves that everyone believes what they want to believe of their heroes.

[@kafir1337]

Actually some of the best TES lore content on KZbin, able to keep me engaged throughout and providing webs of association through the rendering of the characters discussed, along with many other visuals of geographic locations and important items. Thanks to this, among other things, this series has been very easy to follow while being quite informative.

[@darthchungus3902]

No one does these kindve videos quite like you, man. Would love to see more!

[@nicholasalexander2875]

By Azura By Azura By Azura, it's the Grand Champion! Glad to see you back!

[@thenewguyinred]

What I love about Elder Scrolls’ Lore is that its people and races aren’t as black and white as most other fantasy universes. Like real life history, the Elder Scrolls’ history is very complicated and filled up with various secrets and nuances that cannot be easily obtain from an imperial approved history book. The Aylieds may have been human torturing slavers, but they were still people with hopes, dreams, and aspirations. Some probably didn’t even own slaves but we’re still caught in Pelinal’s psychopathic rampage. To have a society of men, women and children wiped out in the blink of an eye is truly a horrific thought to process. The reachmen may seem as barbaric savages, but they also care greatly for the world as anyone else does. Even the Mythic Dawn who’s motivations aren’t justifiable by any means, still have a reason and a driving force for their motivations, they aren’t just a “oooh evil devil worshiping cult, who wants to destroy the world”, they legitimately believe that the world is flawed, and they need to bring great change in order to make it a better place. See what I mean? It’s stuff like this on why I love the Elder Scrolls series so much.

[@madeleinecarter1038]

Ahhh was so worried you'd disappeared for good! Can't wait for this, thanks man! 😀

[@cefirodewinter9086]

Double Negative makes me Double Positive

[@WeroEdward]

Jesus Christ man I've been needing your videos back in my life!! It is so awesome to see you back at it, and I hope to see more, love your Elder Scrolls content!

[@RedSunUnderParadise]

Tiber Septim purged Elves with what is basically an NEXT Armored Core that deletes reality by screaming "NOOOOO!!!" at it. Easily the best emperor.

[@notlineeydupppz43]

one of my few reasons to wake up in the morning. i love you sir

[@maxteraform]

That one dislike is from Tiber Septim

[@mageplayz4908]

Essentially Tiber Septum is the elder scrolls version of Alexander the great

[@cerviero]

Soo ... Wulfharth writing *Arcturian* heresy or Barenziah and Tiber having an affair before he united Tamriel, huh? She was 3 y.o. at the time his conquest ended. Why no words about dragon break AND Zurin smashing Numidium also near Summerset so deaths of the nobles by it could be a one of many it's uses at the same time. I'm sorry for the tone of the comment, but so many people sees Septim only in negative light these days - it is depressing to hear more of the not-quite-right lore for him. The flow of the video and your incredible voice are worth the praise however.

[@JollyOldCanuck]

He has a separate video covering the pro-Tiber Septim lore. This video covers the negative lore surrounding Tiber Septim.

[@maplebear5183]

Hell yeah! I was just binging through the series yesterday, I’m so excited!

[@bobbyjoefrommexico2]

Haha same, I was just thinking the other day, when's Double Negative gonna post again?

[@yokinghaddock673]

Me as well

[@aevvah_flxwer8550]

So good to see his awesome content again! xD

[@jessetrouten7589]

There may be only 30 comments rn, but I read each one and go "yes. I am not the only one who NEEDS this series." I've felt like a puppy left outside and forgotten since you've been gone.

[@tommustlive8269]

so excited every time I see the notification, another great episode king.

[@peteman70]

I love the crap out of these videos. Subscribed. Keep them coming brother!

[@nottodisushttoagen1309]

If Talos isn't a Divine, Then why do his shrines cure disease and grant blessings?

[@mamacoloco7285]

Existance is a dream influenced by an individual of enough Willpower. Such is how magic operates, and such is how shrines operate given enough belief.

[@nottodisushttoagen1309]

@@mamacoloco7285 except I don't believe in any of them and yet the shrines still work just from me touching them, curious that.

[@mamacoloco7285]

@@nottodisushttoagen1309 Except if your character is using a Shrine then mechanically they believe in the gods.

[@mamacoloco7285]

@@nottodisushttoagen1309 I'm not denying Talos is a Divine. He factually is as per Oblivion even though i don't feel he's deserving of any praise or worship but the Shrines seem to work simply through Willpower. The Divines cannot directly influence the mortal Realm ever since the times of Alessia.

[@fauzanabdulkahfi957]

@@mamacoloco7285 laugh in tiber septim reshaping jungles of colovian

[@colbyboucher6391]

It's a shame that this is the video that only got 30k views. While I totally understand why you wouldn't get into it here, I think it's important to explain that one of the reasons people cling to this story is that it hews *so close* to Vivec's understanding of the Tribunal's own godhood in the 36 Lessons. Which, not claiming to *personally* understand them because goddamn, but basically: There's a recurring pattern in TES of a "King, Rebel and Observer", or... Warrior, Thief and Mage (yeah, those birthsigns). Or "Change (Padomay), Stasis (Anu) and again, Observer (Nir). It crops up *all over the place* the more that you look. Vivec describes it, or at least implies it, to be one of the six ways to "reach heaven by violence", presumably in the sense that whatever they did with the Heart wouldn't have mattered if not for the three of them mirroring this pattern. Vivec seems to be the only person in-universe that really *gets* this, not that we understand it very well ourselves. Here we've three dudes seen as one in the same by history, in multiple ways depending on how you squint at it Hjalti + Stormcrown = Talos, Ysmir + Arctus = the Underking, and Tiber screwed with Dwemer god tech the same way the Tribunal did, with Ysmir and Arctus powering it. Being in the middle of that soupy mythopoetic mess of a Dragon Break is as good of a recipe for godhood as any. (Sprinkle in Tiber developing the Cult of Emperor Zero, dedicated to Cuhlecain, which jump-started the practice of worshiping emperors as gods, for seasoning.) Some even think he took Lorkhan's place as the "missing" ninth divine, since Lorkhan would've been the god of mankind if he didn't get his heart yanked out. Perhaps Vivec agreed to help Tiber become something like the Tribunal as part of their treaty.

[@aleksejsivanovs9355]

Great video and welcome back! Have you considered to make a video about Snow Elves, Ysgramor and Dragon Wars? There are dozens of unanswered questions during that time period.

[@olivertumilty3924]

I was so happy to see this in my recommended!!!

[@djkinkled273]

Glad to see you make a return with another great lore video. This channel is by far my favorite channel when it comes to the Elder Scrolls lore, thank you sir and have a great day.

[@AnastasiaBayer-mg2te]

This is what I have been looking for in a Tiber Septim video. Thank you.

[@Belliferous]

Of all the ES lore channels, you actually narrate. Very enjoyable

[@mintbubobubo]

I really missed these presentations! Thank you!!!

[@GraceonGaming]

I think that both accounts are true simultaneously despite their contradictory natures. I think that this fully encapsulate the fact that Talos mantled lorkhan, the god of change and chaos. I think that Talos first lived as one of the last Atmorans, and lived on to fulfill the life that the empire preaches. But whenever he mantled Lorkhan and ascended into godhood, to fully mimic the God of change and chaos, he had to pervert time, pervert himself and his life and change every aspect of who he was originally into this being that we know as Hjalti Early-Beard, a version of Tiber Septim who became Talos for all of the wrong reasons. I think that this could also explain away why the heresy was written by Wulfharth, despite him being dead in his own account. In fact, every single story that involves Lorkhan has a discrepancy between accounts that cause chaos. So maybe to fully mantle Lorkhan, Tiber Septim himself had to become a being with conflicting narratives.

[@seankearns2903]

Yesss!!! Thank you for coming back!!

[@callia8877]

I have hated Tiber Septim/ Talo ever since I learned what he did to Barenziah.

[@davidmatheny398]

Our Tiber Septim of Elder Scrolls lore returns and you better believe I have the reminder set. #praiseStendarr

[@xgene9026]

Glad to see you're back !

[@thomastoscano3152]

YOU'RE BACK!!!!!!! DAMN THIS MADE MY WHOLE WEEK

[@inbox57111]

Hope you make more vids soon man. It's clear you make vids as a fun side thing but I just can't get enough of the way you deliver the lore. 😁

[@UltraZethos]

This video clears op so many questions I had about the lore, thank you!

[@midnightcoffee6463]

Tiber Septim: Illegitimate child will be a problem for my heirs and legacy! Kill it! Martin Septim: Wow, good thing he didn't know about me, then.

[@Marscandy1]

You know who I really feel bad for… Barenziah’s first husband. That poor man.

[@insignificantindividual]

you should just full steam make these videos, there the best on your channel

[@peytonalexander7867]

Please do a recap on Daggerfall it would help me out so much. Also no one else has done a recap on it yet and you are definitely the man for the job. Great video!!!

[@LilTimTyrant]

Tiber Septim is a menace in this one

[@nicholasatan6117]

I can't believe it!! I love your videos!!! Please don't stop

[@brittanymoore5130]

Your videos are the best elder scrolls content to come out in the last nine years.

[@rickybanana22]

I NEED MORE!! Such good videos

[@eduardowahl]

Great work as always!

[@neilyoung9609]

My absolute boy is back at it again

[@KohenBlassingame]

Welcome back

[@FrawanDePot]

Glad to see you back!

[@nachhho7573]

This deserves more views ngl

[@headphoneshq6032]

Hasn't started, lol

[@andrewhuarte5177]

Good to see you back!

[@c.v.4070]

HES ALIVE!

[@velhlar4557]

Allinall had a field day with this

[@revenant4441]

Great work, keep it up man!

[@nubberton1345]

I like how Queen Barenziah wasn’t supposed to have kids but Tibers nut was just so potent and powerful she got pregnant anyways. What a Chad.

[@Sehtlimbo]

And then made her get an abortion 😂

[@olivercharles2930]

@@Sehtlimbo Epic prank

[@joshuamadjoker4399]

I wish you would make more content dude you're fucking awwessommme🤙🤙🤙

[@canismajoris4182]

Poor Barenziah. Betrayed in love too often.

[@derrick211000]

Really good videos. The lore is so great.

[@euanmangan7760]

The Madman himself

[@darthchungus3902]

Pls make more lore vids man

[@DCardoso_1]

Oh we back!

[@matgamarra]

I love that Hjalti sounds similar to Shouty

[@gooigipie4390]

Return of The King

[@Derekaf]

Ashen Nords resummoned from the Underworld are a known phenomenon in nordic lore.

[@Dragon.um5tz]

Probably the real Tiber septem

[@spoonEnthusiast]

The scholar returns!

[@thedragonlady6661]

Barenziah had ADHD

[@nimasherafaty8744]

At last the new septim emperor has been return to bring peace back to the tamrial

[@Uiopty]

What a good vid!

[@eclypso8524]

Oh hell yeah another video

[@rustyknight8813]

Your explanations are satisfying as fuck

[@TheSuperQuail]

"But not THAT Underking." What?

[@jeffreyaguilar8028]

The Underking is a confusing figure. What is he in Daggerfall. Is he really Zurin or is he both he and Zurin at once.

[@DoubleNegative]

Yes.

[@BigManSyr]

YES YES MY MAN YES

[@TheMidgetMan500]

WHOOOO HES HERE

[@antarcticbirdenthusiast]

You should do one of theese on the skyrim dragon cult

[@timekeeper2738]

Where did you go bruh

[@PrettyTense]

Thanks! Welcome back DN

[@dagnirglaurunga1620]

Bit of a jerk this septim guy.

[@jojojorisjhjosef]

"Who the hell is steve jobs?" 3:53

[@mariogarcia7445]

Tiber is perfectly applicable to the meme "Those who don't know, those who know"

[@salazarway]

So the Empire is Roman Empire and I am Septim :)

[@iwakmangot214]

ohh yeah

[@infected1557]

nice

[@fungelfin]

Personally I don’t believe the arcturian because it’s extremely biased and there’s little evidence that actually proves the book correct plus there are other books in the games that just make up stuff so what’s really true is unknown but what we do know is that talos original origin holds weight and is the most likely to be true

[@217vigilante]

Weird to think the first Tiber Septim video came out when I moved cities, that long ago.

[@yokinghaddock673]

I cant believe it

[@bozazz]

The Prodigal Son! 🙏

[@Kainlarsen]

The reign of a pragmatic man gave birth to hyperbole and bias on all sides.

[@brunoreinoso8511]

Hey what's up

[@method6887]

at last

[@reoblakely1604]

stop lying he was a black man end