The Real Power Behind Tiber Septim

In our latest Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim video we discuss Ysmir Wulfharth, arguably the real power behind the legendary Talos of Atmora, also known as Tiber Septim, founder of the empire.
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is an open world action role-playing video game developed by Bethesda Game Studios and published by Bethesda Softworks. It is the fifth main installment in The Elder Scrolls series and was released worldwide on November 11, 2011. The game's main story revolves around the player character and their quest to defeat Alduin the World-Eater, a dragon who is prophesied to destroy the world. The videogame is set two hundred years after the events of Oblivion, and takes place in the fictional province of Skyrim.
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[@JXEditor]

Imagine, if you would, a soul gem. A very specific soul gem, made to hold a very specific kind of soul. The soul of a Shezarrine. Then, within proximity of the gem, two Shezarrines slay one another. They’re souls begin to enter the gem, but it was only meant to hold a single soul. So as a result, when the gem is full, two half-souls remain, attempting to create some form of semblance with each other. The abominable spirit the two create then enters the only body capable of housing it. One cursed with undeath. Thus the Underking was born.

[@revrun9756]

Alright calm down there Ben

[@Schalu01]

...heavn‘t I read this comment somewhere before?

[@JXEditor]

@@Schalu01 Yeah I posted it on a Lady of Scrolls video but it seemed equally applicable here and worth saying

[@Schalu01]

@@JXEditor ah, I already thaught I was seeing things... I really hope we get some more information regarding the Underking sometime in the future... your theory sounds very plausible...

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

@@JXEditorfoolish mortal speaking of which you know little to not the man you call ash king and spector is but the husk, the spurned and the profane it is trinimach hero of yore who powered the brass golem to sunder alinor and it was he who usurped divinity from tribunal and emperor.

[@CyberController-]

Corporate wants you to find the difference between these pictures. Tiber Septim Ysmir Wulfharth Zurin Arctus They're the same picture

[@cobaltprime9467]

I DON’T KNOW!!!! 😭

[@viderevero1338]

There is none.

[@evanthienes]

Funny that two of Fudge Muppet make Michael Scott

[@gummybearsatack]

Damn, I wish I could replay skyrim but its hard when you know what everyone is gonna say before they say it.

[@vergil9005]

I just appreciate the game's story through videos like these, I can't sit through the gameplay anymore since I put in 200+ hours.

[@philherb0656]

@@vergil9005 yeah I agree

[@robertofitch5909]

Play a mod list, from wabbajack

[@sindurwavesismaturf]

You can try a whole bunch of visual mods and combat mods to change the entire combat experience at least. Maybe add in some quest mods to get some new quests as well.

[@sostrongineedmoreofyourmon974]

@@vergil9005 I’ve got 1400+ hours in Skyrim. I play a few complete playthroughs each year. There is always a draw to replay when new mods drop or a completely new mod playlist releases. Sometimes I just replay out of boredom with the rest of the games out on the market. Skyrim remains the only game I’ve got to 1000+ hours and keep playing. The second closest game was Oblivion which has 1089 hours. There is just something about Elder Scrolls games (with mods) that keeps me entertained.

[@FelipeSalesGuitar]

Whoever Tiber Septim really was, the Nerevarine meets the mortal avatar of Talos before confronting Dagoth Ur. There really is a god Talos and the Thalmor are trying to weaken him.

[@thebystander1636]

Ahh my past deeds, done for material possession. Morrowind was my entry into the series. My main priority being, make myself as powerful as possible. Those poor, well-clad armored souls at the ghostgate died long before I was ever supposed to be there. Was Wulf there? I'll never know.

[@M00nH34rt]

Talos is real, but that doesn't mean he's Tiber Septim. If he is Tiber Septim, or part of him, or... whatever, he doesn't deserve worship anyways.

[@OfficialFedHater]

@@M00nH34rt Bet you're a knife ear lover.

[@LandonHarris343]

Oblivion also proves tiber septim becomes talos when you have to get the blood of a god, you end up retrieving timber septim armor

[@M00nH34rt]

@@OfficialFedHater I prefer much more pointy ears, but I share the mers' disdain for Talos, although probably for much different reasons. ​ @Landon Harris Good point, although that isn't 100% proof, because this is Elder Scrolls, it makes it very likely that Tiber Septim is, at least, a part of Talos.

[@XansStuff]

The one thing that is actually known about Talos is that if you pray at his shrine you receive all of the effects of his blessing. Meaning at a bare minimum he is as much a god as the other 8.

[@XansStuff]

@The FBI Not really. The Daedra Interactions are always direct transactional. They need something in return and in truth don't grant any "real" power. You can strip yourself of all your gear entirely and the Blessing of Talos still takes effect. Not so with the Daedra. Well you might think the Hermeaus Mora's gift does, but in reality he only offers a shortcut to knowledge that you can aquire on your own for a high price. All the Aedra require is for you to stand near a shrine and perhaps touch it and say or think some gobbledygook.

[@DespicableMal]

You should keep in mind that anyone can be a god in the elderscrolls universe through the power of ones will and belief of others, its more complicated than that but it could be "anyone" that gets worshiped as a God and therefore gives blessings and exists as one

[@feno8104]

Bare bone knowledge

[@alexanderthered5603]

Basically meaning I can never side with the Empire...

[@loki-710-]

@@XansStuff I mean there's plenty of evidence showing people gaining power through Daedric Worship. Vampires, werewolves, and even Orcs are a direct result of that. Then top it off if you have a strong enough Will / Belief that you are a God you'll become one. Honestly the Elder Scrolls Lore states that in a way everyone could obtain the power of the old which is the Aedra primordial force that made all the different races on Nirn. That's why the Thalmer hate the nords gods like talos because of the Aedra God Aun who helped the nords and it caused us to be mortal. I'm q bit foggy with the details but basically elder scrolls lore is OP

[@insaincaldo]

No matter what you believe, just remember the dragonborn was confused for Hjalti.

[@idipped2521]

I think Hjalti did become Dragonborn, but only after the Ash King's soul was absorbed into the Mantella

[@M00nH34rt]

Ah, but everyone there apparently already mistook Wulfharth for Hjalti, so he likely thinks the dragonborn is Hjalti because he thought Wulfharth was Hjalti.

[@Alizudo]

Remember that Wulfharth was able to successfully pretend to be Hjalti convincingly enough that when he used the thu'um (a feat Hjalti never displayed earlier) nobody questioned it.

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@Alizudo Because it was Hjalti doing the Thu'um. Greybeards themselves say as much. Wulfharth was shouted to ash, and Septim wouldn't have been able to survive their greeting if he weren't Dragonborn.

[@alexanderjohnson6178]

You can’t soul trap a dragons soul so this video is completely broken

[@Praefecture]

The statue in Whiterun shows Talos stabbing Lorkhan the snake in the mouth, symbolising Talos taking Shor's place as the Warrior God of Man. The Ninth Divine, the Missing God. Before him, the Ninth was Reman Ebonarm, a Dragonborn born with the blood of Shezarr. And before him was Alessia, chosen of Lorkhan/Akatosh. In Skyrim you are Dragonborn and Shezzarine. Ysmir AND Hjalti. Don't let the elves win.

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

the totem for shor is a bear mephala or herma mora or sea serpent representing summerset navy

[@hamzaferoz6162]

The snake is actually Orkey

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

@@hamzaferoz6162 yeah probably considering the nords believe they were cursed into shorter lives by orkey/arkay

[@Praefecture]

Shor is the fox, something equally as cunning. Another trickster. The snake is Orkey/Trinimac and the statue is most likely a depiction of his defeat by Ysmir/Shor. But, Talos' mantling of a God is way cooler.

[@JA-jx1hk]

TRUST AN ELF, LOSE YOURSELF

[@enoughothis]

Today's video was sponsored by the Aldmeri Dominion.

[@shirley241]

Yas all praise the god emperor of man and his glorious empire

[@MasterGordon5115]

I was looking for this comment lol

[@jack-exzolt9858]

The High Archons of Alinor approves.

[@wastelandwanderer9491]

The real power behind Tiber Sepim, The Lords Scott, Michael and Drew.

[@mildlydazed9608]

The lore-tribunal you mean?

[@Peace.and.knowledge1]

🤣

[@EJDubbz]

All hail DreScoMi.

[@chisasa9509]

Sure as shit isn't Todd Howard. Lol

[@brendaanneckelsamgc5583]

Hehehehe

[@Whiskin87]

My husband came home to me listening to your channel, and asked if I was listening to a history channel podcast or something. 😂 Yes, honey, that’s exactly it.

[@nakenmil]

Important thing to note: Just because Hjalti was born in High Rock doesn't make him a Breton.

[@joshuamcmurray-wallace1086]

@@Leviathis_Krade or his parents could of been both nord living in high rock so that means he could possibly be pure Nordic there’s nothing in lore that accurately says what he is only theories but it is something to ponder I guess

[@joshuamcmurray-wallace1086]

@@Leviathis_Krade except that’s just a theory it’s not proved that he was man mer it’s not known is what I’m saying he could be he could also not be he could be pure blooded there were nords in high rock at that time all I’m saying is we can only assume and guess lore wise we never have been given 100 percent confirmation on his race but I do agree with the part bout ayleids

[@EyeOfMagnus4E201]

I agree 100%. In support of your statement, I’d further point out that In Morrowind, Skyrim, and ESO (the 3 Elder Scrolls games I’ve played), I noticed that there were any number of non-natives living in every province in all three of those games, proving that just because Hjalti was born in High Rock doesn’t mean he wasn’t Nord or part Nord (plus, It wouldn’t seem that a Breton would have an obviously Nordic name like Hjalti Early-beard).

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

However, the rl writer of the Arcturian Heresy lorebook has directly called Hjalti/Tiber a Breton on a few occasions. He may have had a Nord father (hence the name) but by Elder Scrolls convention, he'd be considered a Breton if his mother is one (especially since Bretons are already part-Nord as is). Also, every bit of art and every statue that we see of Tiber Septim (not Talos) has him looking closer to a Breton or Imperial than a Nord

[@CaesarSonOfMars]

Except his physical description in the Real Barenziah, Kyne calling him the son of man and mer, all in-game art which shows him as a sleek and slender man rather than a giant heroic nord which matches his description in The Real Barenziah. Face it the dude was a Breton and people just mixed his origin story with Wulfharth's.

[@heavenbot]

The Arcturian Heresy is so quotable, nearly as quotable as SITHIS is. Zurin, Ysmir, and Hjalti are all shady af, and Pelinal is sitting on the edge of the wheel facepalming with his non-killing-light hand

[@garthmcripfist2944]

Instead facepalming with his yes-killing-heavy hand 🤣

[@Moncha606]

Man video games have come a long way. Halfway through this video I was like “oh shit this is history in a video game”

[@HareDeLune]

Most games don't have nearly this kind of depth to the lore. That's what is so great, and also infuriating, about the Elder Scrolls series of games. It's infuriating because the games themselves have little or no depth at all, and don't respect their own lore.

[@TheVioletBunny]

Elder scrolls have been around since 1994 and pretty much started super deep lore like this starting with daggerfall.

[@turgonysmir5632]

​@@TheVioletBunny Yet, we had no mention of Thu'um before Skyrim! And now it's a pretty big deal

[@TheSuperQuail]

@@turgonysmir5632 It was a Nord thing for ages, you can read about it in the earlier games.

[@Papagiorgio153]

@@turgonysmir5632 There are multiple mentions of Nords using the voice in other games.

[@williamclose6978]

If the sons and daughters of Skyrim were Texans, their response to this would be, "Them's fightin words." 🤣

[@xthelone]

How did Tiber septim withstand the welcoming of the greybeards unscathed if he wasn't dragonborn.

[@Shitbird3249]

Skooma

[@shonkeymoulder6972]

Lots of skooma

[@idngoldlegend1815]

That is a good question. I'm also kinda wondering what this means for the Septim bloodline since Hjalti was not Dragonborn or of Dragon blood.

[@ladyselin35]

Bring Lydia with you even she can withstand their welcoming. Jokes aside he probably didnt. Told everyone that he did so he could gain respect.

[@ramanspeedballof930]

@@idngoldlegend1815 The dragon blood is most likely not inherited and is just bestowed by Akatosh on those who become emperors and empresses. I don't remember the in-game source, but it's true that Septim line was broken, and yet the oblivion gate remained closed.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

I think Hjalti was likely dragonborn, he just wasn't wasn't a particularly strong one. But he didn't need to be. He had powerful backers and was quite cunning. Knew how to use those who were dangerous to his best advantage and then take their strength for his own.

[@thevoidlookspretty7079]

When you’re the only Dragonborn on the planet, you don’t particularly need to be strong amongst Dragonborns.

[@ratatoskr9366]

He was dragonborn, isn't that confirmed? Because the Greybeards heralded his arrival like they did for you in Skyrim, which is why Wulfharth arose from the dead again. And then when Wulfharth visited the Greybeards thinking they were calling him, they told him no, there is another, and then they blasted him to smithereens.

[@KahavaveCAPIPI]

I've always found the common reading of the heresy as abject fact to be somewhat reductionist. "Don't believe the common story! It's all lies! Believe my story, I'd never lie". Not saying Tiber didn't do plenty of shady stuff, but extending that into "He was totally reliant on a couple of his servants and took credit for all their work" is ridiculous.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

I think the point is that you can't trust anyone to tell the truth. It is all just stories others tell.

[@KahavaveCAPIPI]

@@jacobfreeman5444 Which is fine, I'm just kind of annoyed by people saying stuff like "This account contradicts the official story, so it MUST be the actual truth!"

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@KahavaveCAPIPI Well, the story of the Heresy is more supported on various aspects than the official story.

[@KahavaveCAPIPI]

@@dutchpatriot17 Okay, so to clarify; when I say "The heresy" I am referring to the overall tendency to reduce Tiber Septim to a barely competent warrior who only got anything done because his allies did all the work and he stole the credit. The actual book, the Arcturian Heresy, I find reasonably plausible in the sense of "Tiber Septim was willing to kill someone he considered to have betrayed him by leaving and also put a massive spin on things along with rewriting his origin first in the history books and then in history itself". The problem is that when people talk about the 'real Tiber Septim' they normally mean the first thing. I should have been more specific, since I guess it would not necessarily have that same connotation to other people. I'll edit the original post for clarity.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

The writer for most of Talos' lore (both the Imperial "orthodoxy" and the Arcturian Heresy) treats the Heresy as more or less the actual canon in his out-of-game posts

[@outlander0209]

Of course all sons and daughters of Skyrim believe in talos

[@PriestOfTheOneTrueTribunal]

Who? Oh that guy who isnt a god hehehe thalmor power tehe

[@outlander0209]

@@PriestOfTheOneTrueTribunal SKYRIM IS FOR THE NORDS

[@PriestOfTheOneTrueTribunal]

@@outlander0209 Skyrims exit Skexit 🤭

[@fort809]

@@PriestOfTheOneTrueTribunal these kinds of comments are funny considering Talos Is canonically a God

[@outlander0209]

@@fort809 Ah I see a true nord

[@dmullins301TWM]

I always believed that Wulfharth used the Soul Tear shout on Zurin Arctus, effectively killing Arctus, filling the soul gem Mantella, and raising his as undead with one Shout. This would give credence to Zurin being the Underking of TES2.

[@ReikoAyanamiCh]

Not a bad theory at least. I'd buy it.

[@superheriber27]

I KNOW RIGHT? It just makes sense

[@Vlugazoide]

I just don't get why the greybeard would speak fondly of Talos, saying he came to High Hrothgar to be annointed Ysmir, and how he was also described by them as dragonborn, not solely depenon Wulfharth. And yet, the gost fron the battle of Old Hroldan describes the player as Hjalti Earlybeard, but only mistakes the player character with Talos because both are dragonborns. Both eyewitnesses seem to paint a picture that is in between of the Arcturian Heresy and Cyrodilic traditional beliefs, as Hjalti being a breton dragonborn, less heroic than traditional Talos, yet less evil then the altmer might see him.

[@Shawanga]

I for one believe the truth is always in the middle. The curch would overly embelish Tiber Septim to legitimize Talos, since one person doing all that is more heroic and can awe the public more easily. But the Arcturian Heresy would want to tarnish Tiber Septim as much as possible. So Talos might have been an amalgamation of more people but Hjalti could have been more competent, if not even as competent as Wulfarth.

[@OuhHey]

It's just that Talos is Hjalti + Wulfhart + Zurin So Hjalti or the Dragonbreak probably mantled Hjalti into Wulfhart and Zurin But regardless of "how it happened" : These 3 characters have merged into only *ONE* character Talos and so, Hjalti, Wulfhart and Zurin share the characteristic of each others If Wulfhart is Ysmir the Grey Wind, so are Zurin, Hjalti and Talos If Talos is Hjalti, then Wulfhart aka Ysmir, and Zurin are also Hjalti

[@kuleguy2010]

I always took it as both of them became Talos. Multiple people became the many faces of the reincarnation of lorkhan

[@viysnjor4811]

they were both shezzarines too

[@ChocolateFishBrains]

One thing the Arcturian Heresy doesn't account for is the fact that the Septim bloodline was proven to be Dragonborn with the lighting of the Dragonfires. Martin's sacrifice further solidified their status as Dragonborn.

[@dutchpatriot17]

The AH makes no reference of that though?

[@ChocolateFishBrains]

@@dutchpatriot17 That's the point I'm making. It posits the theory/heresy that Tiber Septim is not Dragonborn. But his bloodline has been proven to be Dragonborn later on, so what else does it get wrong?

[@dutchpatriot17]

@@ChocolateFishBrains The Arcturian Heresy doesn't contradict the Dragonborn claim though?

[@Alizudo]

@@ChocolateFishBrains You can be Dragonborn and still be a shitty fighter. Tiber Septim simply used Wulfharth to do his dirty work. Tiber Septim can still be Dragonborn in this situation. He also got access to the Numidiun, which literally rewrites the entire fucking universe into being whatever you want, so he very easily could have made himself Dragonborn then.

[@ChocolateFishBrains]

@@Alizudo My comment is only addressing the bloodline of Tiber Septim. That's where it ends. You're arguing a point that has nothing to do with anything I said.

[@gregoryhatcher6428]

I'm still of a mind that Hjalti was indeed dragonborn in his own right, just that Wulfharth A. Trained him in the use of the Thu'um and B. Empowered him beyond what a normal dragonborn would have been able to accomplish alone.

[@J.sh_CDN]

The way i see it, even Dragonborn blood doesnt mean instant shouts. Even the Last Dragonborn spent their early life without the voice, only gaining it after slaying their first dragon. Im sure dragonborn would have an easier time learning the voice like a normal person, but still have to work at it unless they find a dragon to kill

[@TheSynthPunk]

It would make sense, since the Septim descendants are able to wear the amulet of kings

[@arock4269]

Just wanted to say thank you Fudge Muppet for accompanying me while I work. Your videos help me get through my shift plus your lore bites are an amazing addition when I stream ESO. More power to you lads.

[@95Bartlett]

I'm inclined to believe this version of the events since I feel like it makes the least amount weird assumptions, like Tiber Septim migrating from Atmora to Tamriel in the late 2nd era or an assassin somehow not slitting his throat all the way rendering him Thu'um-less but not speechless. If we believe the Underkings version of events it makes sense that the "General Talos" figure is a conflation of two individuals were both conquering Tamriel at the same time where one could shout and the other couldn't (where the lie about Hjalti's throat being sliced came from), where one came from Atmora and the other Alcaire. Plus, if Hjalti is this sneaky backstabber and not some honorable general the Talos oversoul is a combination of the Warrior (Wulfharth), Mage (Zurin), and Thief (Hjalti) archetypes which I know isn't proof but it "rhymes" more if that makes sense. Also, the theory that Hjalti is a Breton never sat right with me. The only evidence seems to be that he's from a region of High Rock but we know that various races aren't locked to their respective provinces. Plus the name "Hjalti Early-Beard" sounds super nordic to me and it would make more sense that Hjalti and Wulfharth were conflated as one figure if they both shared a race, if one was a Breton and the other a Nord I feel like people wouldn't mix them up. Anyways great video this is one of the most interesting bits of lore to me since it requires knowledge of other lore topics to truly appreciate the story of the Talos figure.

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

Hjalti being a Breton has been outright stated by Michael Kirkbride (the writer of pretty much all of the lore on Talos, including The Arcturian Heresy) on Elder Scrolls forums, so it's more than just a fan theory. He also went as far as to have Kyne refer to Hjalti/Tiber as a "manmer" in c0da (which isn't official canon, but still shows that he imagined Hjalti to be a Breton when he wrote this lore) Most likely he was born to a Breton mother and Nord father (which would indeed make him more Breton with how biology works in Elder Scrolls). This would also make sense considering that every depiction of him that isn't a Nordic Talos statue depicts Tiber/Hjalti as having features typical of Bretons and Imperials rather than Nords

[@PPAChao]

Couldn't it just be a bunch of different Nordic warriors/kings over the centuries mantling Ysmir and then being remembered as his return by posterity?

[@Cyrusleaf]

Stolen identity?

[@Vlugazoide]

Yes, but since even elven detractors (as in the arcturian heresy account) see Wulfharth as being continuously reborn, it's more likely a stubborn atmoran dragonborn just refused to stay dead

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@Vlugazoide An Atmoran Dragonborn being reborn over and over until he eventually becomes known as Wulfharth?

[@Vlugazoide]

@@thalmoragent9344 or just wulfharth being continuously reborn. I mean, Kyne/Kynareth had his back, so...

[@thalmoragent9344]

@@Vlugazoide Ah, so basically Wulfharth keeps on getting resurrected by their Nordic Goddess Mother, nice. Wish Auriel or Trinimac could've saved the Snow Prince in the same way. You ever wonder why the Elven gods don't seem as... I dunno, active as the Human ones? Them and the Beastfolk don't get much love with their Pantheons, or at least after their creation stories and setup. I just chalk it up to the Humans getting plot armor and favoritism, like they do in just about ever other fantasy... but it's sad to think not once have the Races of Mer been saved by a demigod like Pelinal was sent to Allesia's aid, or ever get help like how Sai (unintentionally) gave the Nords tons of luck since he had a daughter with one, leading to the Falmer, Chimer, Direnni and Dwemer getting either genocided or overtaken in the early Nordic Empire until he was sternly spoken to by Mara and Y'ffre. Then there's this video now, of some other guy becoming Tiber Septum and getting all sorts of help from divine forces. For a Dead God, Lorkhan's got his gang pretty active.

[@robertvanostrand4927]

Last time I was this early, Falmer still controlled Skyrim.

[@wafflingmean4477]

But if he wasn't Dragonborn, then how did he establish a new Dragonborn line of emperors?

[@nepnep1453]

CHIM

[@Saber23]

That’s what’s so cool about it the unreliable narrator allows us to just theorize

[@Balinux]

That's the thing, the new line of emperors don't even descend from Talos but from his brother. Seems like the power of the Dragonborn emperors came from the Amulet of kings.

[@Saber23]

@@Balinux yeah it was a dynastic bloodline thing because of the pact Alessia made

[@iMajoraGaming]

@@Balinux that's still the bloodline, it's still direct relation, they were all dragonborn that is how it works in real world dynastics too, there are no male-line descendants of the prophet muhammad, but those who are sayyid are still treated with the same dynastic import, be they from his daughter fatimah, or his uncles.

[@Lcgx]

I was doing my own research on Talos the other day while reading a book in skyrim, there is a vast amount of content in almost every nook of lore. GREAT VIDEOOOOO!!!❤️

[@jackcowden2651]

1:30 “Rich Evans would like to know your location”

[@thebystander1636]

Talos Saaaaaiiiiiivvve Us!

[@frankorlando2420]

What I gotta do for a 36 sermons vid I’m down bad🙏🏿🥵🙏🏿🥵

[@jasonsilvernail1450]

We might need to perform rituals for all of the Daedric Princes at this rate

[@kingkwan6713]

Same man

[@shanerasmussen5225]

I read a Star Trek novel with a similar take on the great Klingon legend Kahless. In the book Kahless basically is forced to take credit for the deeds of his less charismatic "brother" Molor (brothers in deed not blood). In traditional Klingon legend Molor is damned as a coward and traitor, when in truth Kahless was the coward and almost traitor. Molor forced Kahless to lead because people would follow him, and he stopped Kahless from fleeing the responsibility and danger. It was Molor's death that finally made Kahless what his brother had hoped for him to be. In a final twist the book revealed that the "blood of Kahless" on an ancient dagger kept at the Boreth monestary was actually the blood of Molor, and thus the 24th century clone Kahless was actually cloned from the true source of the legends Molor.

[@Dragonite-hm4lm]

thats the arcturian heresy in a nutshell

[@thewanderingstranger6638]

The last Dragonborn: Neat he can't speak, me I speak through my mind with a laid out texts so the players can chose them

[@chasebrekke6816]

You guys should do a podcast epi about the old nordic pantheon. Btw the boethia episode was awesome af.

[@ironeius]

What i love about TES is that it's a narrative universe where there are no good guys. Everyone is motivated by hate, everything is unjust and the official stories tell us that figures who acquired power through treachery and deception were noble and valiant heroes. Kinda like our world in fact

[@YismirGoldFingers]

by azura BY azura BY AZURA, IT IS YOU MY GRAND CHAMPION!

[@chikasnotmadjustdisappoint6266]

Heimskr wants to know your location.

[@octavianpopescu4776]

And Ulfric and the whole Stormcloak army 😊

[@morrigankasa570]

High King Ulfric wants to know your location, Thalmor spy...

[@MrEHD-fj1bz]

... to share crucial information with the dominion. spies for Thalmor thighs

[@lorddodge2867]

@@MrEHD-fj1bz He isn't a spy for the Thalmor. Didn't you read the dossier

[@RaynmanPlays]

Yeah, I'm sure Talos's Nordic armies would be _completely_ oblivious to their leader being a Breton.

[@dutchpatriot17]

How is that relevant? Their loyalty had nothing to do with Talos' race.

[@litewave5186]

@@dutchpatriot17 lol tell that to the Stormcloaks. Guaranteed if they'd *shut up* about Skyrim belonging only to Nords that more people would help.

[@kytesiridar1610]

@@litewave5186 Tell the empire to stop trying to wipe out their culture and faith then maybe they would shut up about it.

[@litewave5186]

@@kytesiridar1610 I guess you forgot the Thalmor started the whole mess in the first place by allowing Ulfric to start the war in Skyrim? The Stormcloaks have a good cause but religious freedom isn't an excuse for racism. The Empire isn't trying to rid anyone of anything, they're just stuck working with the Thalmor to make sure they don't suddenly get attacked again, which they KNOW is going to happen. Not saying the Empire isn't guilty of some things, but neither side truly is in this case.

[@skyholmes5322]

It's interesting how they say the devils have betrayed each other since the dawn of time. Especially since the war of red mountain was rife with treachery, with the chimer turning in the dwarves, the tribunal turning of nerevar and the old gods. But I guess that's what happens when you worship gods of betrayal

[@loganlabbe9767]

Now I'm bizarrely disappointed that a fictional story in a fantasy world didnt not-happen like I thought. Thanks a lot.

[@feno8104]

To put it into perspective, Talos the God, Stormcrown, Tiber Septim, and the Underking are the amalgamation of the souls of Hjalti Early-Beard, Ysmir Wulfarth, and Zurin Arctus. Hjalti+Ysmir=Stormcrown Zurin+Ysmir=Underking Zurin+Hjalti=Septim Talos the God is the combined souls of all 3 and the Mantled God Lorkhan The figure who the nords revere is probably Talos Stormcrown (Hjalti and Ysmir) The Greybeards, during their formal recognition of TLD, say that they are now Ysmir, Dragon of the North. It was probably the same for Hjalti, thus the soul amalgamation to create Talos Stormcrown.

[@dutchpatriot17]

That's only a theory, and there's really not a whole lot supporting it. Especially the part where Lorkhan gets ''mantled''.

[@yiasemi]

Interesting, the Elder Scrolls lore runs a fine line with heresy, the Gods exist and it isn't clear what makes a God real or a fake. Is it belief, power, provenance or birthright. How much were the Tribunal false or just losers in the great game. Are the Thalmor right or wrong or does the victor take the spoils? Are any gods real or just the top of the scrapheap? We just don't know and that makes it all very fascinating. If it wasn't for Bethesda's worrying trend on lore I'd be invested.

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

so many different perspectives and ideas

[@NarutoUzumaki71069]

Damn you almost have a million subs, my guy! That's awesome, congrats!

[@SinisterRed98]

So when are you guys making an audiobook???

[@diggy_the_first]

there's a podcast you can listen to if that's what you're looking for

[@JumpyLemming22]

Wow! This is an incredible puzzling together of the lore, im blown away

[@chrisspink8873]

Gives me dragon age vibes were only the player is remembered. Despite not being able to accomplish there goals without their party members.

[@craig7021]

Depressed af but at least I lived long enough to see this.

[@fafnirlord]

You are valid and deserve to exist, brighter days are ahead!

[@City-Swimmer]

Dont give up dude, life will get better

[@Cool_Adam]

“I fight so that all the fighting I've already done hasn't been for nothing. I fight… because I must.” ― Ulfric Stormcloak

[@igoriouspitchpuckington1594]

I hope this was a good step for you,, and I hope you live long past this, I hope you find a path that leads to a new way, and remember the words of Phynaster: If you wish to retain a godlike lifespan, take smaller steps.

[@CyberController-]

Don't let those elves get to you, every human is important. Praise be to Shor, praise be to Talos, and praise be to you.

[@elperronimo]

By Sig- I mean talos this is Heresy!

[@AizenV7]

whatever the case, don't forget to rent the Tiber Septim Room Suite when you visit Old Hroldan!

[@boseidono]

1 dislike from Tiber Septim

[@swoljoe]

and 3 from the politicians backing him

[@HareDeLune]

Wow, you guys must have really held quite a quilting bee to assemble all this! Superb job, and thrilling to hear you relate. Bravo!

[@theprofessor7965]

I appreciate you changing up your intonation, sounds so much better! I'm sure you'll get even better at this and your narration will be so much smoother to listen to! Looking forward to it.

[@generaldurandal3568]

You can meet Talos in Morrowind as the NPC Wolf, who you can only meet on your way to fight Dagoth Ur at the Ghost Gate. He gives you a misc item, "Lucky Coin" which actually boosts your stats. If you go to the Temple in Ebon Heart after getting the coin, you can tell them about Wolf, and they'll be like, that was Talos! You also actually play as Talos is Skyrim. Go to Old Hroldan, and you'll meet a ghost, who calls you after a fake name Tiber Septim used while he was alive.

[@E-Brightvoid]

Definitely a Shezzarine

[@corujabiruta3732]

But than again we got to remember, Talos sons that would become emperors afterwards all had the dragonblood and thus all could wear the amulet of kings, wich means he had to have been dragonborn.

[@scoob2099]

IMO Tiber Septim is the Nord Hero turned Tamriel Emperor turned Talos the Aedric god. I’ve seen and heard enough in game dialogue and events that prove him to be a man who ascended to godhood. I love the conspiracy stuff though cause it adds even more flavor into the lore of the series. Awesome video as always FudgeMuppet bros😄 P.S. I believe Alduin when he says he is the first born son of Akatosh and whatnot.

[@Super50ldier]

He isn't the Firstborn of Akatosh, he is the Nordic version of Akatosh.

[@drunkenmistake90]

Cool video guys I learned a lot as per usual thank you so much can you guys do a video on rats and skeevers please

[@seanbarker4610]

I am more impressed by hjalti's intelligence than ever!

[@mesektet5776]

Are you saying that Heimskr is less than credible?! The very idea, well I say good sir, Hrumph.

[@nathanwhite64]

When are we getting a video on his lesser known brother, Timber Septim?

[@hircineshunter5896]

Wood be a great video

[@HareDeLune]

@@hircineshunter5896 Wait... *Timber* Septim?! I totally missed that. You have my most sincere apologies. Everyone has their moments of stupidity, I suppose. : P

[@hircineshunter5896]

@@HareDeLune 👍 no problem

[@haphazardlark1502]

My take on the whole series of events is this: When you have the same events turned into stories told by a culture of people who mostly don’t even live a century and a culture of people who live hundreds of years, with some figures living thousands, then have those two stories keep clashing against each other and being reinterpreted in parallel millenia-long games of telephone, you get some fucking WEIRD mythology and I love it. (Also the theory is convincing, but the above is what my thoughts are every time I learn more about elder scrolls lore.)

[@phuckerpower]

He had to have his throat slit to nerf him.

[@zuzannanagadowska5175]

You guys are helping me get through writing gadzilion essays for my masters. Thank you ♥️🙏🏻

[@MrDUneven]

What if Wulfharth wasn't a dragonborn but a dragon? Would explain why he needed scribes to speak his laws, and how he kept returning even after death.

[@kaimagnus5760]

What if The Dragon Soul is how The Dovahkin keeps respawning after he's killed?

[@therodyman700]

Well, considering a dragonborn is a mortal born with the soul of a dragon which makes dragons immortal. Why wouldn't dragonborn souls be immortal?

[@jacobfreeman5444]

The difference is that the flesh of the dragonborn is mortal, while actual dragons are mostly immortal. They age but do not succumb to infirmity or disease. Can even be restored to true life so long as their soul endures.

[@insaincaldo]

Don't you think people would have noticed if if he was a dragon and not a man. Besides dragons are perfectly capable of speech, what are you even getting at?

[@litewave5186]

@@insaincaldo well according to lore, some people said they could scarcely look at Talos without also seeing a dragon.

[@jaspr1999]

If there was definitive proof of this, it would shatter the Nords on their most personal level. Of course, just try to present facts to those that are willing to ignore them due to their unwavering faith.

[@timothy8428]

Oh! He repaired a step! Let me just gasp in wonder for a moment. (gasp!)

[@benbittinger9789]

I think of the oversoul of Talos as a rescrambled assembly of the liquefied shards of Shezarr's soul that was split upon his "death." Like, the three shezarrines of the time, Hjalti Early-Beard, Zurin Arctus, and Wulfharth, who is called Ysmir, combined into a venn diagram with the god Talos Stormcrown at the center. Tiber Septim is a combination of Hjalti and Zurin, the Underking is a combination of Zurin and Wulfharth, and Talos of Atmora is a combination of Hjalti Early-Beard and Wulfharth.

[@ragingsage3973]

The many headed Talos

[@pulsefel9210]

every mention of ysmir ive seen has been alluding to them being the same person

[@EuphoricRaccoon]

I think the Arcturian Heresy is where Elder Scrolls lore shines the brightest. When you let Michael Kirkbride shatter conventional narrative with a heresy but is under enough editorial supervision so that the method to the madness is not blurred by the word play and self-referencing. I know Kirkbride hates the way he wrote the heresy, but the content and main idea is superb, so I don't care!

[@frozentspark2105]

Can you pass the popcorn please, Fudgemuppet is on

[@zantheros4927]

Ah... So now perhaps we figured out where the Thalmor got their ideas about Talos...

[@jonnybridin]

Great vid but my only question would be; does this not discredit his lineage and all the kings who came after him? And the amulet of Kings? we know the blood line and the amulet is legit as martin used it to summon Akatosh. I think Oblivion discredits this theory.

[@lord0jackostar]

Discrediting a royal line really needs to happen within a generation or three of the line taking power. After that, no one questions because there’s nothing to question. The bloodline might be legit simply because they have held the place for so long, Akatosh might have just shrugged and held up his end in good faith.

[@swavvy9448]

Just got some mods loaded to make the game fresh and looking good and ready for a 100% lore play through.

[@anitarecount5081]

Vids that will have a mob of angry Nords beating down your front door

[@bernardoguittileite680]

But you were once man! Aye! And as man, you said, "Let me show you the power of Talos Stormcrown, born of the North, where my breath is long winter. I breathe now, in royalty, and reshape this land which is mine. I do this for you, Red Legions, for I love you."

[@dariustiapula]

Obviously the divine triad of Scott, Michael, and Drew. The gods of past, present, and future.😭

[@spider-spectre]

What if this ties into the whole dragon break? All 3 lived the life of Tiber Septim in a slightly different way but, we tell the stories in sync giving the illusion to the reader that maybe they all existed but, in reality it is left overs of 3 different timelines. All 3 races of pro-Lorkhan man became Talos in their respective timeline, Breton, Imperial, Nord but, in our timeline that we play, Tiber Septim betrayed Wulfhearth and Arctis. Another interesting note is how even Tiber Septim is debated on his specific race but, imo leans toward Breton as Wulharth is Atmoran, a believed nordic ancestor race, also a very nordic name and Arctus was the first Imperial mage implying he was there from the very beginning after Alessian revolt. The books we read are relics of the 3 timelines becoming one with the story of Tiber. Its has to 3 as Tiber lives 40 years after the Numidium is created with Wulfharth and Artus's half souls in the Mantella. All 3 became Emperor and conquered Tamriel yadayada but, perhaps the Breton one was the best timeline or atleast the timeline that seems to have the most true events however all 3 timelines have true events.

[@Doomin-c2m]

It's all fine and dandy, but this theory falls flat instantly when you remember that Tiber Septim was a Dragonborn, or else he wouldn't have been able to wear the Amulet of Kings. In addition he managed to bend the dragon Nafaalilargus to his will and also some in-game books say that when he was emperor, some of the Nords no longer saw a man when looking at him, but instead they saw an actual dragon. He was also recognised by the Greybeards as the Dragonborn earlier in his life, meaning he was born that way.

[@squidmanfedsfeds5301]

Could still be Dragonborn and still have wulfharth be the real tongue power behind him

[@DanWeeks]

I finally read the Arcturian Heresy in game and it blew my fucking mind! Everything I thought I knew about Tiber Septim and the history of the Nords is now shaken.

[@chisasa9509]

MiGhTy TaLoS! -Zaric Zahakran.

[@mmyr8ado.360]

Hjalti's story gave me Beserk vibes for some reason

[@simonaponte8706]

Hjalti is kinda like Griffith.

[@kalebb1226]

I sacrifice

[@merillerobichaux3994]

I was thinking the same thing.

[@sithdowell3788]

This was really very well done. Thank you 😊

[@ZeroSeriesMMX]

I do hope nobody's planning to strangle the Unreliable Narrator (not Scott, in this case) due to the mayhem in Elder Scrolls lore. Especially about this.

[@sagacious03]

Great video! Thanks for uploading!

[@Gardiken]

And now Ulfric begins his mid-life crisis. “Shor’s bones! The mighty Talos... A fraud?!??!!”

[@mikmik2949]

How to spot an Imperial...🤔

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

milk beards back stabbing honeyed words metal skirts nasally superiority complex

[@gptechnologiesmangalore6909]

@@Angelo-nd4lg so you side with the racists then?

[@krychstian7379]

@@gptechnologiesmangalore6909 "I don't hate em, just don't want them here"

[@gptechnologiesmangalore6909]

@@krychstian7379 so Neutral?

[@Angelo-nd4lg]

@@gptechnologiesmangalore6909 i side with skyrim and its mother kyne i side with the true empire and its father talos i side with death in glorious battle with shor for sovengard

[@duncansalyer2999]

The blood on the armor of talos septim is adequate for the ritual that summoned a gateway to mankar Cameron’s paradise. It called for essence of the gods.

[@conermos]

With this theory of Tiber Septim. What about his rise to godhood. Would that still be possible.

[@McHobotheBobo]

Aspects of Shezzar 🤔

[@handgun559]

Like a dragon break being a time where the weight of fate and destiny were so massive that time just kinda shatters for a while, i like to think the various people that formed Talos were also so weighty in their destinies that they genuinely created new beings in oversouls. Then when all of these souls and oversouls finally all perrished with the death of the underking and the destruction of Tibre Septims artifact, that weighty event created Talos. And these are events so massive in effect that they become retroactive. Suddenly they always existed. Talos is Tiber Septim, Zurin, and Ysmir. But Tiber is an oversoul of Talos Stormcrowm and Zurin. But also Stormcrown is an oversoul of Ysmir and another guy. But its complicated because when Ysmir helped creat Stormcrown, he didnt stop existing, and Stormcrown was retroactively created in history, basically "last tuesdaying" himself. Then the same happens with Stormcrown and Zurin imteracted. The weight of both their fates created a new fate that would accomplish what the two could basically accomplish if they were symbiotic. The oddity is the Underking who seems to be a very literal fusion. He seems to genuinely be Zurin and Ysmir combined, but mostly Zurin. Ysmirs power is just in there somewhere.

[@yotamrandor5100]

what armor and weapon mods are you using in the video?

[@ruffianturnt2550]

Seriously need to know lol

[@davidmartinruiz9867]

www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/104955/

[@DoritoBagWilkins]

Gotta love how this guy gets his hand held by a demigod, gets a literal dragon, one of the most powerful mages in Tamrielic history, and a literal Gundam and manages to destroy, lose, or fritter away each and every one of them in short order. The amount of spoon-feeding both he and Alessia got in order to accomplish their deeds is nothing short of ridiculous, and only further proves why Reman was the only actually competent empire-builder of the three "greats".

[@BroadwayRonMexico]

Numidium was less a Gundam and more like Eva Unit 01. Was even built for the Dwemer version of Instrumentality

[@storkbomb7417]

Tiber Septim gets a dead guy to do all the hard work for him, til the dead guy gets mad because Septim isn’t racist enough for him and refuses to keep helping. In response TS plays the old dude’s blind hatred against him, lured him into a trap and sealed the old dude (basically a demi-god, for all intents and purposes) inside a soul gem. He then used his S-Tier soul gem to hijack a Dwemer god-machine, and proceeded to ride up on Summerset and bring the Altimer to their knees- conquering the people that everyone, especially the High Elves themselves, thought to be unconquerable. If this alternative history’s aim was to make Tiber Septim look bad, I’d say it failed tremendously.

[@greengreen3110]

This is why I'm subscribed to you guys, good work!

[@blankspace998]

I tend to think that Talos was indeed just a regular human (nord, atmoran, breton doesn't matter). But he was indeed very successful in his conquests that people worshipped him and, thus, by the principle of mythopoeia, granted him divine power to rule and conquer. And after his death, he was worshipped even more, and all of his followers just channeled their aetherial power, lifting him up to the ranks of the divines. That's also why elves are so desperately trying to ban worshipping of Talos, to erase this god from the pantheon, and to balance out the distribution of aetherial power from aetherius to nirn. As his followers through belief and worship lifted him to godhood, so he's channeling power back from aeterius to nirn in blessing and general wellbeing of humanity. And we don't need to forget that Aedra unlike Daedra can create and not only change matter. So it is likely that as 9th new, fresh and not weakened and dormant after the creation of Mundus god that is even more backed by humans Talos can crate even whole new plane for humans or make humans aedra again and Elves can't let people achieve that. Well, that's just my theory. But I really like the concept of the mythopoeia, as anyone can become a god if he's persuasive enough.

[@ahmadrausyan9585]

i thought he just drank skooma and became so OP then took the entire tamriel under his own

[@philherb0656]

What armor mods did you use?

[@frankcommatobe8009]

I am also wondering

[@ruffianturnt2550]

Me too

[@davidmartinruiz9867]

@@frankcommatobe8009 www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/104955/

[@ModFactory]

I don't know why I felt personally attacked when he was just absolutely shitting on the good name of Mighty Talos xd.

[@idipped2521]

When he died there was a dragon break because he ascended to Aetherius and merged with the spirits of Wulfharth and Zurin Arctis which technically makes both the heresies and the legends true. Which is why the underking was essentially without a "heart" or a soul. He was basically the body of Zurin Arctus that was left after his soul was absorbed into the mantella hence why he wanted it back

[@christopherchilton-smith6482]

That was a fun listen.