Douglas Murray: What would it take for me to become a Christian?

[@ChrisGBaker]

Thank you Douglas. You are a brilliant intellectual who is also intellectually honest.

[@jaggedstarrPI]

Someone once mused, "How much suffering could be avoided if people would stop confusing, "The Lord told me" with, "The thought crossed my mind."

[@samanthamcdonagh7856]

I’m a big fan of Douglas , I would love to speak to him about my experience I had that led me back to Christianity. It was unexpected and gave me a lot of comfort and will be a cherished moment for me for the rest of my life.

[@Kristian-ql8zw]

What was it?

[@samanthamcdonagh7856]

@@Kristian-ql8zw I was feeling sad and anxious standing in the queue of the checkout in my local supermarket. I said in my mind “ help me Jesus” just like we do casually. I instantly felt Jesus standing next to me holding my hand . It was quite strange but not scary and made me feel better straight away. I now know he is still with us and he can come to us, even in a supermarket.

[@h54h52]

One of the non Christian ‘greats’ of our nation. Thoughtful, analytical, courageous and outspoken.

[@patrickkparrker413]

But still under God's wrath.

[@catherinesummers5057]

May the Lord bless Mr Douglas Murray. I wholeheartedly agree that you should not compromise your intellectual integrity. It's like holding your breath under water and one day you will shoot up gasping for air in your lungs. I like to think of myself as somewhat of a clever cloggs and I examined Christianity after looking at Humanism and various philosophies. One day (long story) I realised it was true. No fireworks...but a slowly emerging joy and loss of cynicism. I have heard the still small voice of the Lord twice in my life but my faith is grounded in His Word. If you read it, faith comes. I am praying for you Douglas.

[@Littlemermaid17]

That’s a beautiful comment 💜

[@tammymullins1151]

Amen

[@lisaregoart285]

A beautiful comment indeed!

[@joeroganpodfantasy42]

The story about Churchill in the end was amazing. I know exactly how Churchill felt , the hope and meaning I found was that in the end it matters what we did in life. Because it mattered what others did before us , and it will matter for the future what we do.

[@andybray9791]

Churchill was he a non believer or “returned home”

[@eddyfye6311]

Douglas Murray shows great courage in defending the West and calling out its detractors. I wish for him great faith in the one who called out "I am the way, the truth and the life."

[@Martin_Adams184]

Douglas nails one of the great challenges that confronts intellectual types if they are considering becoming a Christian. From around 8.40 - excellent; which I say partly because, for several years before I became a Christian, I did exactly what Douglas describes.

[@Martin_Adams184]

@Joel Ashworth Thank you, Joel, for the questions. I became a Christian for two main reasons. The first was that I moved from one part of England to another, and ended up in a place where nobody knew me. So I did not have to make such a decision - a change of mind, as you rightly put it - in a context where I would have to explain it to those who had known me for years, to justify myself before others, to worry about what others might think. It was moral cowardice on my part. But I look back on it all (including the move away) as God's mercy towards me. The second was that, while my life in the world - work, recognition for professional ability etc. - was on a steady uphill trajectory, my inner life was going downhill fast. It wasn't just a string of bad relationships that were damaging me and those with whom I became involved; it also was the lack of any meaning, because I could not find satisfaction in the applause of the world. I had no awareness of sin; and in that sense the change of mind was not driven by a sense of unworthiness before God, worry about life after death, or anything like that. I just kept going to this very strong church, which preached sound Christian (i.e. biblical) doctrine, but above all was a community where I saw real love in action. I remember one day in particular, sitting at the back, listening to this man preaching, and having this overwhelming conviction - "I have to go this way." So I did. And then I had to learn how to make my mind move in that direction. As the Apostle Paul urges the Roman Christians - "Be transformed by the renewing of your minds". Ever since those days, some 42 years ago, I have tried to do that as a continuous process. I hope that helps to answer your questions. Thank you for asking.

[@Martin_Adams184]

@teens break In the 42 years since then, the path has been anything but unreliable. That's because one does not walk it alone - one walks it supported by the relationship with Jesus as Living Lord, and aided by the power of the Holy Spirit. It becomes unreliable if one depends on anything else, and that includes depending primarily on the experiences offered by church meeting or any other organisation. Sometimes I have had "wasted experience", as you put it. But that's my fault - a failure to "walk with the Lord, in the light of His Word", as a famous hymn puts it. Christ himself comes first; but fellowship with other Christians is a central part of the walk, for encouragement, rebuke when needed, for the praise of God together, for edification.

[@Martin_Adams184]

@Joel Ashworth Hmm. I'm not sure I could say I was converted on that one day, only that I remember it more vividly than any other. What I did notice was that my interests shifted quite quickly around that time. Some of the things I had been interested in become less interesting. I felt more in charge of decision-making, because I sensed I wasn't making decisions on my own, out of my own wisdom alone. And in general I started to make decisions about life that were more healthy for me and for those I loved. Some of my long-standing friends did not like it at all and more or less cut me off. I was sorry about that (some have got back in touch since); but I met other people, especially (but not entirely) within the church. Nor did my family like it; but they got used to it when they gradually realised that becoming a Christian had changed me for the better - and by that I don't mean that it made me happier; it was that they saw a much more stable life, especially obvious when I married a couple of years later and made a successful marriage and family of it. I know that would not have happened had I not become a Christian. Will that do for a start?

[@Martin_Adams184]

@Joel Ashworth Thanks Joel; and sorry for my imprecise turn of phrase. By "Will that do?", all I meant was whether or not I have explained enough to answer the question. I spent most of my life in Ireland, where that is a common turn of phrase to mean "Does that answer the question?" I'm delighted to hear that you have recently taken a leap of faith. I never had a Damascus type of moment; but I did feel aware of being drawn in a way that became increasingly powerful, even though I did not fully understand that at the time. As the Apostle Paul says, "For now we see through a glass darkly, but then face to face." Now we have met in this way, albeit in cyberspace, we can pray for one another. Thanks again.

[@Martin_Adams184]

@teens break Hello Teens Break. As i implied in my first response to Joel, it is precisely because I came to see that feelings are so unreliable that I turned to God. (Perhaps I should have spelt that out more clearly.) It is one of the major errors in much Christian teaching of our time that becoming a Christian makes you feel good, that it's all about me. That's all very far from what Jesus, the Apostles and the Bible have taught. If there is another model I could point to it would be the journey described in John Bunyan's "The Pilgrim's Progress" - turn to God, repentance, confession, and seeking to walk the narrow way. Often one makes mistakes and ends up out of the way. It's often hard, because being a follower of Jesus means denying yourself; and I, in my fallen nature, does not always do that. You're absolutely right that I cannot prove that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true. That's part of its power, proved by generations of believers across the centuries - that it has to be received and walked by faith.

[@CSUnger]

31] He said to him, `If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.'"

[@Jared__Bowden]

Where can I go to hear Moses speak? Why should someone be convinced based upon a 6,000 year old tale?

[@CSUnger]

Jared, seriously. If you do not wish to believe then don’t. Why should it bother you that others do?

[@jontypiper9881]

@@Jared__Bowden you can't. The above verse is taken from Luke 16, a specific audience was in mind. The point being that the first century Jew had the law, given to Moses and it's within this context that it's to be understood, said with respect 👍

[@patrickkparrker413]

Amen .

[@patrickkparrker413]

@@Jared__Bowden Wise up and get saved before it's too late .

[@dcoburn88]

I generally find conversations like these unsatisfying because my sense is they never quite go far enough in opening up what's most important, although I appreciated the honesty and openness of this one. If I had to distill the religious attitude and sentiment, I would say religiosity and religious faith is an appreciation and awareness of awe, wonder, and mystery in response to God/reality. This is more of a fully embodied "sense" and awareness than a mere cognitive "belief," which is much more superficial than authentic religious faith by comparison. And while words and arguments have value, they can never fully contain this ineffable and transcendent quality of true religiosity of child-like wonder, awe, and trust toward reality that becomes a wellspring of joy and gratitude beyond rational understandings.

[@Beastinvader]

This Christian still loves you, Murray!

[@brianfinnegan664]

This atheist loves u

[@mickeyh1961]

I believe totally in God a creator I mean it's obvious this is all part of a creation plan . Otherwise its futile to plan or hold any more as l point of view as it's all about us as individuals at a very basic level. Don't expect others to believe this life all happend just by accident

[@brianfinnegan664]

@@mickeyh1961 the arrogance of ur certainties is quite repulsive

[@amandine512]

@@mickeyh1961 What is the plan? What is the end goal?

[@ajNKaj]

Beastinvader this one too loves him. He is a voice of reason in our time. He is on our side from hearing many of his speeches and he who rewards the seeker will meet him in good time. The thing with audible voice it comes when unexpected and not to all. Esthers point is that there is much evidence supporting our Christ. But those that replied with mistrust and defensiveness don’t do much for faith and seekers! Thank you

[@GWills-ys6rd]

The truth is a core element of sustaining human sanity. Core values and ethics to preserve life and the Earth can be independent of a specific religion.

[@LifeandLifeMoreAbundantly]

thank you for asking Douglas this question; I believe he's wondered why the Christians aren't defending their faith.. This is what real christians do, evangelize and change the world one person at a time. Praying for you all!

[@cathygarrick9957]

I think it's always very wise to search for God. We can and should engage every part of our being in our search. It's good to use our intellect, our feelings, our creativity on the way. Just because you call yourself a Christian, doesn't mean you're in any way more enlightened. I've met some pretty uninspiring people in churches. Good for you Douglas Murray to be so honest and to engage every part of your being in your spiritual journey.

[@cathygarrick9957]

@Jeff Mrkvicka I suppose that's where faith comes in. I have been diagnosed with schizo affective disorder and have experienced psychosis and hearing voices. At the time, I really thought that was real. It would be arrogant of any of us to say what is definitely real. Even science has its flaws and discrepancies. I found that Bible meditation has helped me and others but I still have my doubts and arguments. I'm still human.

[@cathygarrick9957]

@Jeff Mrkvicka of course you can! You can believe in what you want. If that works for you. Jesus never forced himself on anyone. He spoke, some received his word, some walked away.

[@cathygarrick9957]

@Jeff Mrkvicka I don't believe everything I read. I have a mind to question things. I believe that the Holy Spirit illuminates the text of the Bible to make it real

[@cathygarrick9957]

@Jeff Mrkvicka that's interesting. Never heard that one before. I wish you all the best with your search.

[@cathygarrick9957]

@Jeff Mrkvicka yes I'm happy and fulfilled. Although life is never without its issues. It definitely works for me. God bless you.

[@Hannah11235]

I was a militant atheist for 9 years. Loved my life and was having a blast. I had a really terrifying encounter one day... I had been researching connections with Luciferianism and the Global elite. It was opening up dark doors and fear, like nothing I had seen before during my past time spent in the New Age movement. During this terrifying encounter with what I can only describe as demonic forces, I called out to Jesus not even knowing whether he was real or not, just completely terrified and in need of help. The horrifying experience ended instantly when I called for him. I was then immersed in love, it felt like he was hugging me. After that I asked Jesus to come into my life and that i would follow him. It was like a complete spiritual transformation. All my vices like eating junk food were gone. I was gifted this deep patience and compassion even when dealing with detractors. It's been an amazing ride. So happy not to be an atheist anymore. If you ask in complete sincerity and vulnerability, Jesus will come to you. You can bring all your problems to him. You have to completely open to him

[@adamski320]

yeah, right

[@Hannah11235]

@@nrai4210 very much so. Nothing else can even compare :)

[@andybray9791]

We got delafe testimonies and family search council to help you

[@peterh1423]

Douglas's mention of visions from God prompts me to share my interactive divine one of.many years ago and its fulfilment eight days later in a miracle involving other people. This video with Douglas is helpful.

[@frankwhelan1715]

people are always hearing voices,why would that preasude him?

[@budd2nd]

Mitch Starkey I don’t understand, how has god revealed himself publicly? Are you referring to 2,000 years ago?

[@spalding1968]

Mitch Starkey I think he is saying that hearing the voice of God would push him over the edge in that it would be the come additional element that would persuade him .

[@budd2nd]

How could anyone tell the difference between a mental health condition and a god experience? We know mental illness exists but we don’t know if a god or gods do, so surely it’s more logical to assume illness, not divinity ?

[@spalding1968]

budd2nd probably because people with mental health conditions tend to struggle with ordinary day to day life and relationships and hearing voices in the head are one of many symptoms indicating ill health . It’s very rare for someone to have their life and finances and relationships together who hears a voice that would indicate immediately mental health issues .

[@budd2nd]

Pro Baller I’m talking from personal experience, Schizophrenia manifested exactly as you describe to my husbands best friend. He was a high functioning, very highly paid I.T guy . So point is still, I’d assume mental illness before god

[@Louiseskybunker]

A soothing voice - and not a screeching voice.

[@RamBam3000]

One that doesn’t go “REEEEEEEEE!”, I suspect.

[@GraemetheGuiriLordHaHa]

Great conversation. I hear God in Mr Murray's profound logic, wisdom and decency. The best advocate I know of all that I believe in as a Christian is Douglas Murray. Unlike Mr Murray, I was not brought up in faith, I came to faith at the age of 18 having been a devout atheist since the age of 5. I understand he fell away from Christian faith after reading the Koran. One thing I suspect played a key part in him falling away from faith is his sexuality, which is of course completely incompatible with faith. Something extremely personal and something no decent presenter would bring up with him without clearing it with him first.

[@pwhitaker569]

Maybe Douglas just read his Bible and decided genocide, misoginy and slavery weren't for him🤔🤔🤔

[@MrSofuskroghlarsen]

Interesting to hear his thoughts about unbelief and belief. Makes me want to share a few thoughts about my own take on the process of coming to some kind of faith (if anybody cares to read such things from a young grumpy danish man, haha). I've had multiple spiritual experiences, mainly in intimate dialogues with other people where love and understanding has been present, and these experiences yield to me an intuition of a greater purpose, something that binds us all together; that there's essentially nothing more life-affirming that love, the unconditional love that can flow and permeate our hearts. I'm still on my journey and still trying to integrate this. I've been confirmated as a Christian and I consider myself culturally Christian, but I'm still struggling with making sense of my own faith. I've been dealing a lot with anxiety in my life, mainly due to a lot of suffering in my late childhood, and the very idea of the Christian hell, and the possibility of a lot of my loved ones going there, really pulls me away from the faith. I hope that we all make it, that we all find the path that will lead us nearer Him. Much love and blessings.

[@treasurecave431]

Im a christian but i luv hearing douglas murray. Truly one of the most articulate humans around today. Hope he sees the light one day

[@brianfinnegan664]

He already has, nope u do one day

[@treasurecave431]

@@brianfinnegan664 i have

[@brianfinnegan664]

@@treasurecave431 glad to hear it, incrediblyliberating isnt it

[@Ismael_Malikshahi]

Wow shocker you like a person who say nice things to me 😃

[@Mystie01]

Re the comment that 'something happened here'; I'm sure it did just as something happened in many places, but I can't help but observe that when something is repeated over and over again, especially for a very long time, people will come to believe it. I'm neither accepting nor denying that something perhaps 'biblical' may have happened there. We need to be mindful when stories are repeatedly put in front of us, whether by religions or media.

[@lawmaker22]

Yes, something happened there. You are right Doug

[@Coteincdr]

I'll pray for him.

[@gwenj5419]

I think people are more likely to be convinced by reasoning than hearing a voice. If they literally heard a voice, they would assume they were hallucinating and would go see a psychiatrist.

[@johnroycroft5653]

I certainly would

[@williamisley1880]

I appreciate deeply Justin Brierley's gift for carrying on these conversations. For Douglas Murray, whose candor I also appreciate, I have a question and a suggestion. First, how does one live as if something were true when they do not believe that it is? I'm truly not sure I can understand it. Perhaps one might see it as a stage in the journey to faith or at least an openness to it, but to me it seems as if it is living without a foundation in truth. Also, to live something as if it were true must be a very different kind of life than living what one believes is true. The comment relates to intellectuals' concern that they would not be honest or would be sacrificing their intellects is understandable but I think that it is to view the issue the wrong way. Belief in the Christian God does mean turning our intellect over to Him (and turning over our wills, emotions, whole being) but in doing so the mind is expanded and deepened. Of course, one still has to believe that there is sufficient reasonable grounds for believing or maybe a personal mystical experience, as Murray mentions. If there are equal grounds for belief and doubt on both sides, then I think Pascal's wager makes sense. Thanks again for an interesting discussion.

[@vizveebee]

I just read the first few lines. One thing I have come to understand better over my 40 odd yrs of being a Christian, is that when the Father calls we come. When I listen to Douglas, I can see he is where he is meant to be just as King Cyrus was. He will continue his work and when God's timing arrives it will all come together in the right way. Meanwhile he reaches the whole world because he is not stubbornly religious.

[@DainBramaged00]

1) The volume is very low I wish you could turn it up a bit. 2) "I'd need to hear a voice." [from beyond] -- If you were convinced it was a voice from Beyond, how would you know that the voice is from God or the devil? 3) That being said, I think you'd need the Bible and human reason to decide whether The Voice was good or evil.

[@DainBramaged00]

@samuel fox That is part of the problem. One would have to figure that out if you had that experience, or thought you did.

[@Draezeth]

Well if Satan speaks to you, that's a pretty good reason to run the other way and seek the Lord.

[@viasevenvai]

“...you’d need the bible to decide...”. What? Either you decide based on your own reasoning or you throw out your reasoning and follow the bible.

[@Draezeth]

@@viasevenvai He's saying you use the Bible to inform your reasoning. If you hear a voice and it says things that are inconsistent with the Bible, then you can conclude it wasn't God, based on reasoning. Get it?

[@Draezeth]

@Matt G Don't just stop there. Also read Philemon, and the various commands the Lord gives throughout the Bible, and pray over the matter. Nowadays, it would be more likely that God would command you to get a slave in order to free or rescue them. The Bible needs to be read as a whole. Not doing so will result in horrible misuse of scripture.

[@DarthBalsamic]

Very interesting statement by him here. Many people in the comment section appear to be dismissing what he's saying here, and I get why to be fair, but he does seem genuine in his observance of what we do and don't discuss regarding supernatural things like hearing God's voice and what it would take for him. I don't think everyone hears a voice, but I do believe that God does speak with a voice or visions with some people; and in all cases I do believe he speaks to all of us who know Him even if it is not an audible voice. And, sure, he can speak to a sinner and it change their lives. As believers we have God's word, the holy spirit, and just basic circumspection to him and dedication to him that makes these things possible. Even creativity can be a vehicle for that. I really do hope and pray he experiences Christ in some way, shape or form, and it be genuine. I say we pray for that drawing that only God can do. It is definitely a hope that is worth having and makes us unashamed.

[@adammeade2300]

Ironic, because there is a voice. I imagine those who demand an audible voice would only contrive a way to dismiss that voice and, instead, demand a power-point presentation.

[@emmaw6143]

I think he's being vulnerable and honest about wanting a supernatural experience: I am a Christian, and, although very rarely, I have heard God's voice and received very specific direction. I think as Christians, if we have had a supernatural experience, we should allow that to come into the conversation.

[@yoyo-lf3ld]

Weak argument

[@charlievaughan1308]

@@yoyo-lf3ld Why is it a weak argument?

[@equalizingrespectator9658]

@@charlievaughan1308 Its weak because there are an infinate amount of possibilities that could prove the existance of any God being more than just an imaginary concept in somebodys head. Just nobody has managed to prove beyond their own personal experience, that the God they believed they experienced can effect or even exist in reality. None.

[@charlievaughan1308]

@@equalizingrespectator9658 I would like to say, because were not all that rational, we should all be skeptics demanding hard, cold, impartial evidence for that which we believe. I am agnostic. I see no evidence why I should believe in a personal God. The Abrahamic God for example. I do not of course have to disprove such a God. I have only got to show that doubt is warranted. And doubt is most certainly warranted.

[@rs5352]

That was great.

[@thecanberean]

If he heard a voice it wouldn't make any difference to him.

[@spalding1968]

The Canberean that’s not really fair . He sounds genuine and that he actually wants to believe but just can’t . Hearing the voice of God would push him over the edge . There’s no reason to claim he is being dishonest about this .

[@CSUnger]

Pro Baller, Bertrand Russel, a backslidden Christian turned atheist was once asked what he would say if he encountered God after he died. He replied.” I would ask Him why He hadn’t provided more proof of His existence.” If the spider’s web, the eggshell, the butterfly and the humming bird aren’t proof enough, hearing a voice won’t convince him either.

[@spalding1968]

C.S. Unger I respect what you are saying but that has nothing to do with the gentleman’s claim that hearing the voice of God would convince him . You cannot say that if X orY has not convinced him Z won’t . You would have to call him a liar based upon what he said just because you feel there is equivalent evidence to persuade him of God’s existence . These are your standards . They are not his .

[@CSUnger]

@@spalding1968 Pro Baller, not necessarily a liar. And consider that he says, "I THINK I would have to hear a voice". Even he isn't confident of what it would take to convince him. I am not saying that he is deliberately or consciously prevaricating. It may simply be more along the lines of the fact that for many people the cares and distractions of this life do not allow them to actually make the real and determined effort to come to grips with these issues until it is either too late or they have become so inured to the current humanistic perspective in the West that it does not register in their immediate thinking. As one of his colleagues, Jordan Peterson, has said, we are complex creatures and assuming that one knows all that makes up all of his thinking and how one arrives at his decisions is a foolish assumption. I have been speaking to people about this very thing for a very long time and, as I said in the post below, the thing that has convinced me the most of the Bible's accurate take on mankind and the rest of reality is the consistent and irrational resistance to its claims that I encounter everywhere and in just about everyone I meet. Again, it is only in the post-Christian West that we have encountered such a widespread acceptance of the idea that there is no God. Historically, all of mankind throughout history has had some form of transcendental perspective. There are reasons for that and the idea that we in the West are now more open-minded or educated is an illusion.

[@spalding1968]

C.S. Unger we are in agreement on many of the things you have said so eloquently. But none of what you have said lays any further substance to your view (as I understand it ) that Douglas would not be persuaded to believe in God if he actually heard God’s voice . That’s just a claim without any knowledge other your own surmises about what Douglas May or May not be thinking would be sufficient evidence . He was asked the question directly by the interviewer and after some thought he gave a straight forward answer. It didn’t come across as prevarication when he answered all. It came across as genuine. And as I understand it , he was once a Christian and through whatever reason, no longer believes. I guess I have just taken the gentleman’s word at face value . Your view has merit also . We just disagree . No harm in that either .

[@jontypiper9881]

I've personally never had any 'experiences'. I've had at the most what I would describe as promptings, I believe because I believe it's true, if we relied on experiences then anything could be true, which I'm sure is what some would say is fine.

[@con_boy]

What if "Douglas Murray" spoke to the hundreds of Muslims experiencing vision of Jesus in their dreams?

[@1MDA]

@@20july1944 dont understand how you interpreted that from this coment, read it better ,maybe , I can only conclude this guy is Christian

[@AsixA6]

@@20july1944 Seems to me that Conrad is a Christian.

[@scientificmethod1409]

What if he spoke to the millions (even billions) of people who dream of being naked in public spaces (very common dream). Is there some special meaning for that too?

[@con_boy]

Scientific Method it depends on whether you got executed for it... the people who have these dreams leave isis they also share the stories which are COMMONPLACE these are dreams that they don’t shut up about tho it kills them

[@20july1944]

@@scientificmethod1409 Using the scientific method, is the law of conservation of energy true -- meaning that energy can't be created?

[@eileenthompson5958]

God speaks to us through His word , the Bible, and through our life’s circumstances. If anyone sincerely wants to know the truth, God has promised to answer you.Just ask Him and when He answers, as He surely will, don’t keep putting it down to coincidence. As a former atheist, I speak from experience ....

[@Truthmatters-]

The Bible describe God’s voice as “small still voice.” It is impossible for anyone to hear this voice who has ears who cannot hear. Things that the mind doesnt know, the ears cannot hear. Jesus said, my sheep knows my voice, therefore we have to become His sheep before we can recognise His voice. To BELIEVE is to SEE.

[@GuitarDog_atx]

Funny you call his followers sheep. And calling him a good shepherd is also ironic - they keep the sheep safe from wolves and other dangers, only long enough before they get slaughtered.

[@Truthmatters-]

Guitar dog Hi, that’s typical diversion tactic, can we focus on the topic? Anyway, my response is - the message of the story is centered to the relationship between the sheep and its shepherd... if we take all the parable and stories “literally” then I think we have a bigger problem to face...

[@GuitarDog_atx]

@@Truthmatters- I dont' think it's a diversion tactic. I'm pointing out how this analogy is more accurate than people realize. A deity whose message was so important that he shared it with the smallest group of people he could find, for very short period of time. The average person could have done a better job than jesus. He didn't really seem to care or try that hard, his effort was weak, and showed no urgency alerting people about hell. Jesus was incompetent, and eternal torture makes him the most wicked deity ever. This is why faith is a bad word. You are basically saying the stuff you are selling can't be taken on its merits.

[@Truthmatters-]

Guitar dog atheism is a faith based religion as well isnt it? Atheist BELIEVES that there is no God. Actually, for me the Bible is like a “baby talk” for God only so that He can reach out humanity at the level of their understanding. If God will speak based on his level of wisdom, for sure no one will ever understand... when you speak to young ones, it will be different when you speak to adult ones. When you speak to your colleague, again its different setup of conversation.. God speaks in way a human soul can understand... If the Bible is now too hard for someone to accept and understand... how much more if he speaks in greater and divine wisdom... Now, let’s go back to the topic.. what will make you convince about the existence of God? If Christianity happens to be true, will you be a Christian?

[@GuitarDog_atx]

@@Truthmatters- ​ Sorry to disagree, but an atheist lacks belief in a deity due to lack of evidence. It is NOT the positive claim that there is no god. Most will say they don't believe in anthropomorphic, shy, petty deities like the ones currently available (there were millions more, but those belief systems were exterminated over time). "God" is not defined -if you disagree, there are billions of other people, past and present, who would argue with you over this. You think the bible is baby talk, but I believe that the god of the bible could just as well communicate a lot better - as I characterized your deity in previous comment (incompetent, negligent, apathetic). This is just factual. If jesus said he had an important message, wanted everyone to hear it, then virtually anyone could've done a better job than him. My expectations for a gods are not met. If there is a "god", for starters, I'd expect this deity to make it clear what he/she/they want - clearly. This aint' too much to ask. There are more branches of xtianity than there are verses in the bible. We're not even sure if jesus ministry was 1 or 3 yrs I will not bow to the xtian god, I'm a former believer for many years. I will not worship any deity who is less moral , and has less common sense than I do.

[@MarkHunterSolo]

I think Douglas is really cool and I really enjoy listening to him. As a christian I suppose I should question his being gay but I just think he is great!

[@AWalkOnDirt]

People praying for healing and amputees regrow limbs. Or does god just care for the mildly sick, and football games. God as indeed “cured” a cold for millions of believers.

[@1MDA]

I'm yet to research, but that would be amazing :o , praise the lord for the hundreads of muslims with dreams of Jesus

[@Mackaygolf]

@@1MDA There are billions of muslims, do you have any capacity to understand what a truly underwhelming, insignificant quantity "hundreds" are in this context? Literally statistically irrelevant. You spew literal nonsense.

[@1MDA]

@@Mackaygolf Hundreads is not none. If something hapends rarely, it doesn't mean its not important or relevant. Your interpretation is biased, and nonsensical. Open up

[@randomuser6306]

@@Mackaygolf how many people does God need to do anything?

[@patrickkparrker413]

You clown if that happened you would give evolutionism the glory .

[@brianrodney712]

We tend to take on the same beliefs, or lack of them, of our parents. My own parents were not religious at all, and neither am I . In fact, I consider religious belief to be infantile, as it is when we are children that we are inculcated with religious ideas.

[@Orthodoxi]

Yeah well considering the invisible veil of soundproof darkness that has been foisted upon us all, compliments most recently to the post-modern “God is dead” programming, you won’t hear that voice. And that tragedy, until remedied, is incalculable for us all. Let us pray we will find our way through breaking free from those chains and removing the veil so we may speak directly with and of God again.

[@CSUnger]

Comment of the year! Sadly even many believers seem oblivious to this.

[@Orthodoxi]

C.S. Unger if enough others start to see it we have great hope for recovery! It took me more than 20 years in earnest striving to educate myself and learn about this false liberation I was born into and finally choosing Orthodoxy this advent season in the eastern Church to realize this. The father of the Church I am working to gain membership in told me it could take up to a year before I was ready to be baptized. Because I am pretty self aware thanks to those 20 years of striving I feel it may take longer before my heart is made right again so I can receive the Holy Spirit. I think at that point I’ll be a real human again. A child of God. Only through God and my long suffering and earnest patience. But this is a shockingly painful process. The good kind of pain, of healing. To have my heart opened after being buried as in death by my social programming: maybe this is just me but if most people have to face this and yet no one knows especially Christians we are going to be in for a huge surprise! People have said God is dead. The truth is we have been forced to play dead to God. Rise like lions!

[@CSUnger]

@@Orthodoxi Momma Llama, I wish I could share your enthusiasm for the "church" but, in my experiences with the "church" in all its current manifestations I have found that, at best, we are simply "investing our money with the bankers" (Matt. 25:27) The institutionalization of our faith, in whatever form, presents serious hindrances to a true and organic faith. We usually end up with having faith in faith and worshiping worship rather than Christ. I'm sorry but I am finished with all denominational expressions of the faith and attribute much of the problem to them rather than to the world. If any of them were presenting a true and clear difference between themselves and the world it would be obvious.

[@Orthodoxi]

C.S. Unger I agree most are fully corrupted at this point. Typical cycle. The Eastern Orthodox Church seems to still be pretty sound. No perfect. The one I’m attending has Gods presence in great measure. I go for that. He is able to work on me. And me myself. I suppose there are other ways. Try the church of the eternal logos here on KZbin. David Patrick is pretty awesome.

[@CSUnger]

@@Orthodoxi Nah, a virtual community is not really a community. I need to be able to shake your hand, look you in the eye, and be able to test your spirit and see the fruits in your life and your soul. And allow others to do the same with me. This whole computer church thing leaves me with an empty feeling. I'm sure for some it's a life saver but I've seen thousands get saved (back in the 70's) and I don't see it (the virtual church) as an alternative to the real Thing.

[@kilometer780]

I need to sit down and have a talk with Douglas to convert him

[@patrickkparrker413]

I won't hold my breath .

[@marysueeasteregg]

NO Christian, clergy or lay, will ever convert him, or anyone else. If he returns to the Church, it will be through the working of the Holy Spirit.

[@jaywyse7150]

The more science disproves religion, the more religion needs you to believe in what can't be proven. Religion has been riding off of societies ignorance a long time.

[@rubenestrada669]

what scientific hypothesis are you referring to where 'science' is aiming to 'disprove' religion?? As far as science vs. any evidence for God, I would argue that science further confirms the evidence for God. Mathematical precision of order in the universe, abiogenesis, DNA, the study of the mind, etc ad nauseum.

[@moveaxebx]

Seems like you are not following science at all. Science was never closer to "theory of God". Science was never about disproving religion. Atheism is. And atheism is faith

[@jaywyse7150]

@@rubenestrada669 none of that proves the God of the Bible. Mathematics = Zeus or Ra or Tinkerbell or the Muslim God. All groups could make the same claim and a lot have. Every human is a scientist, not every human is religious.

[@Mackaygolf]

@@moveaxebx atheism is not faith. How can so many people misunderstand this simple concept? Is not collecting stamps a hobby? You make a god claim. I do not believe your claim, and my disbelief of your claim is NOT a claim to the non existence of a god, just the god you claim. Until reasonable evidence is provided, it is not rational to believe ANY claim.

[@moveaxebx]

@@Mackaygolf It's reasonable to claim that since everything exist and it's working the way it does that there is probably some great mind behind it. Far more reasonable then saying that it all came from nothing. Yes it's faith based system since you cannot grasp the whole universe and realms beyond it therefor you have to believe that there's nothing. You cannot prove it. You don't KNOW it. There for, you believe it. I see how cell works and I conclude, hey, it's so complex that even today with all technology behind we still cannot cure cancer and we still cannot create this most basic form from nothing in controlled environment. Therefor I conclude that mind far, far greater then ours created it. It's not a being inside of the universe, just like an author of a book is not a character inside of the book, or programmer inside of CPU. It's perfectly reasonable to claim that God exist.

[@patrickkparrker413]

You need to believe in Christ and his gospel to be saved , nobody or nothing else.

[@evangellyfishlife8479]

You do hear a voice it’s called guilt whenever you sin you feel bad because you’re guilty because God has spoken to you and written his word on your heart keep that in mind the next time you sin

[@Quinn37]

How do you distinguish between the "god" voice and your own inner voice? Can your inner voice be wrong? Do people ever think they are guilty when they are not, or don't feel guilty when they should?

[@evangellyfishlife8479]

I’m not sure where you’re going with this question but the short answer is scripture is our ultimate standard, therefore when you lie, steal, cheat or have unnatural sexual desires those things are clearly violations of God’s word and the guilt you feel is clearly speaking to you about your sin. However, there are those who have their conscience seared or A calloused heart in such a way that they no longer feel these things those people are what we call reprobate. When Richard Dawkins is on a speaking tour in the United States and he’s fornicating with coeds all across America he may not feel guilty about his fornication and adultery but he still recognizes it’s wrong because he certainly doesn’t want his wife back in England doing the same thing and thus the hypocrisy of the reprobate mind

[@oliverreno4734]

Lol fuck off with your nonsense.

[@vonroretz3307]

Ultimately the intellect part of us is very God.

[@brianfinnegan664]

Lol

[@vonroretz3307]

I suppose, Very God of very God.

[@brando3342]

"A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign."

[@AsixA6]

An irrational and gullible generation looks for no sign.

[@brando3342]

@@AsixA6 I got my sign, but that was not a requirement for me.

[@brando3342]

@@AsixA6 You humble yourself, trust, have faith first. If you want to be recognized, you must first recognize. Humble yourself and be exalted. Exalt yourself and be humbled.

[@AsixA6]

@@brando3342 So, according to you, you are wicked and adulterous. Got it. I'm glad you don't adhere to your own statement, but it's quite odd that you'd post it.

[@brando3342]

@jwkivy No, I didn't say "I need a sign, then I will believe."

[@CSUnger]

If I summoned him and he answered me, I would not believe that he was listening to my voice. Job 9:16

[@luap4981]

Can I make this leap in a way that is intellectually satisfiable? lol some of the smartest people in history were Christians. In our marketplace of ideas, I'd argue that Christianity holds the most weight.

[@luap4981]

@Jeff Mrkvicka brilliant argument mate. You really got me there with "you are wrong". Your intellectual prowess is astonishing.

[@allahspreadshate6486]

"some of the smartest people in history were Christians" So? The rest weren't Christians. What does your point reveal that you felt the need to make it?

[@mrtactica]

What would it take? The gift of Faith from Our Lord.

[@matsfreedom]

He is going to be very surprised someday. That day comes for all of us.

[@allahspreadshate6486]

Why do you believe in god? Did (do) your parents believe in god?

[@yoyo-lf3ld]

😂😂😂😂

[@scottfamily865]

Proverbs 17:10 “A reproof entereth more into a wise man than an hundred stripes into a fool.”

[@dulls8475]

God shouts loudly all the time. Think about DNA, think about how you get to move your thumb. Do it now and think about the complexity involved. The watch points so loudly to a maker yet the thumb and its mechanisms for moving are beyond a complexity that we could design at the moment. God speaks to all every bloody day.

[@jaywyse7150]

If the claim is that all the creation that we can't explain is God I can follow that. But once you claim to know what God wants and expects from us and he only speaks to a few chosen people, it just sounds like manipulation.

[@dulls8475]

@@jaywyse7150 I think the Bible and its demands on us are for all?

[@jaywyse7150]

@@dulls8475 I'm black so I don't agree with slavery. Exodus chapter 20 to the beginning of 22. God Tells Moses about his slave rules.

[@bleirdo_dude]

How quality thinking instead of quantity?

[@kypdurron62]

Watchmaker argument has been debunked so many times that it's almost tiresome at this point.

[@andreakumar2984]

Would have loved a conversation between Douglas and Ravi zacharias, but alas it wasn’t meant to be.

[@rogerkreil3314]

If Christians were commanding things to happen and doing miracles, I would probably still be one.

[@dulls8475]

You never were one, you just had a taste of religion....

[@rogerkreil3314]

Maybe not. But true Christians are scammed because they have to believe without seeing and endure until the end.

[@adrianmack8537]

@@rogerkreil3314 they're scammed if they don't become superheroes? Did you try putting your pants on over your trousers?

[@johnroycroft5653]

My atheism grows stronger with age. I stopped attending church with my family aged 12 and 45 years later, I realise now how enlightened that decision was. You don't need religious texts to give you hope. I experience great joy by creating meaning through exposure to the myriad of wonderful philosophies that the world has to offer (including Christianity).

[@notgerhardnotrichter4951]

I don't get intellectual Christians (or muslim, jewish, hindu etc.) How can you crack high math or astro physics and believe in old poetic myths? :) Where/when/how this cognitive dissonance happens? :)

[@bleirdo_dude]

It's the power of the *Holy Dopamine Ghost* ....

[@notgerhardnotrichter4951]

@@bleirdo_dude 😂😂🖖

[@1MDA]

I would say because we have an conscius that cannot explain its own existance based on materialism

[@bleirdo_dude]

@@1MDA Let me perform brain surgery on you, and then see what you believe afterwards.

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

It probably happened when you started equating intelligence with atheism. I’d look there for the C-D

[@ardbegthequestion]

I feel like having God speak to us in a meaningful way isn’t outside of the realm of how God is portrayed in the Bible. But yet I judge a majority of Christians would say their “hearing god” is essentially filtered through their own belief about God (from the Bible and Church tradition). Line of questions; not a syllogism: 1) is God really omnipotent? 1b) if so, does/could God manipulate air molecules in such a manner that he could “talk” or simulate a voice? 2) is God is loving and wants to commune with us? 3) If I suspend disbelief and ask this God (again) to please communicate in this meaningful way, can I expect a verifiable response in a timely manner? 4) Why is the feedback I get only from other humans appealing to why I am “not doing it right” (talking/listening)? 5) What organ is the receptor for this God given the ears are not in play? 5b) How does one actually parse out the thoughts in our heads from claiming God speaks directly to our “hearts”?

[@ąყŋ-o8q]

JM Campbell it’s great to see that you’re curious, I’ll try to answer some of the questions you have here. 1) God is omnipotent. 1b) If God is omnipotent, then yes, he could manipulate air molecules,(even though that’s not how true speech occurs) but that doesn’t mean that he’s obligated to that form of communication. 2) God is all loving and wants a relationship with you. 3) if God is all knowing and all powerful, maybe direct communication wouldn’t be the best method to communicate to you. Maybe an experience, vision, or dream. 4) can you reword that? 5) Again, God could directly speak to you, given he’s omnipotent and sovereign, but doesn’t mean he’s obliged to. 5b) the main reason skeptics don’t experience God is simply because they aren’t open to it. If they experienced something, anything, they’d write it off as they’re just hearing or seeing things. God honors those who earnestly seek him.

[@ardbegthequestion]

ɧąყɖɛŋ - no offense, but you haven’t explained anything other than yes god can, but he doesn’t because I’m not open to it. What if I am? God isn’t responsible for coming to me in such a manner that is meaningful? It’s always the other person who has to go through a bunch of mental gymnastics to just even be convinced there is another entity talking to them? This aspect of divine hiddenness is what has been the lynch pin of my deconstruction. Regarding #4 - again no offense, but what you given me as insight was almost my very point. I ask simple questions that lead to paradoxes and the response usually boils down to, you don’t hear because you don’t want to.

[@ąყŋ-o8q]

JM Campbell precisely.

[@ardbegthequestion]

ɧąყɖɛŋ - just to be clear, you are saying “precisely” what?

[@ąყŋ-o8q]

JM Campbell I don’t know what you mean by “no offense”. My point is you won’t find God unless you’re deliberately inquiring. Simple enough?

[@david-spliso1928]

You believe on Jesus Christ crucified for your sins and you make a commitment to turn away from sin. This is the gospel and it's likened to a seed. And this seed is planted in the heart, not the head. If it's planted in the head it will die. Unbelievers don't understand this because their heart is closed to the gospel. So they put the cart before the horse, making excuses for unbelief, claiming to need this or that before they believe. On the contrary, _God_ provides the faith needed, but only if the heart is open to Him and His saving gospel.

[@brando3342]

@Neil Desperandum To be truly humble to God is the hardest thing for the proud.

[@kypdurron62]

That is a very long winded way of saying 'Don't think about it.'

[@bleirdo_dude]

Atheists deny the *Holy Dopamine Ghost* ....

[@david-spliso1928]

Everyone note the 2nd paragraph.

[@Mackaygolf]

Literal nonsensical ravings. You spew nonsense.

[@mr.c2485]

Name a thought or emotion that doesn’t have a voice. Now all we have to do is decide wether or not these “voices” are simply temporal reactions to physical stimuli or the subconscious mind searching for soundness. If it’s the former, then why would soundness of mind be an issue if all that we’re capable of is being reactionary? Fact: everything we all do or think revolves around and strives for soundness of mind. There....I made a bold claim.

[@jsmit9484]

What is more likely? That the experience you have came from inside your mind. Just like a dream does. Or that it came from a supernatural being that created the earth and everything on it? That it came from a God that "watches over us"? Come on guys... Be honest to yourselves. I know the thought of a God might be comforting to you, but there's a hundred thousand reasons not to believe he exists.

[@20july1944]

Mr. Smit: would you say your atheism is based on science?

[@jsmit9484]

@@20july1944 My atheism is not based on anything. I simply am not convinced by any arguments supplied by religions. There's no proof, therefore I do not believe. Atheism is not a movement. It's not a religion. It's simply a statement

[@20july1944]

@@jsmit9484 Hmmm. MY Christianity is based on science and historical evidence and commonsense while YOUR atheism is "not based on anything." Do you know enough science to converse meaningfully on cosmology and thermodynamics? Those are my favorite science reasons for theism, which leads to Christianity.

[@jsmit9484]

@@20july1944 I'm not that much into physics. As a medical resident I'm a huge fan of human anatomy, human biology and I see evolutionary biology as something of a hobby. I am not ignorant on the subjects you just mentioned though. I'm curious though. Do your arguments have anything to do with: Energy can never be lost or created. Therefore something can not come from nothing, therefore God exists? Because if they do, than please don't even consider writing another comment, it's not worth your time, nor my time. We both know those arguments have been deconstructed and debunked a thousand times already.

[@20july1944]

@@jsmit9484 OK, explain how the thermodynamic argument is debunked.

[@Zoomo2697]

The Voice Douglas is in Scripture and in the wise words of G. K Chesterton. “Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children the dragons can be killed.” ― G.K. Chesterton Similarly Christ Told us that going to Mass restores your Faith in him and 'Our Lady the Mediatrix of all Graces'

[@Zoomo2697]

@Jeff Mrkvicka You miss the point completely.

[@Zoomo2697]

@Jeff Mrkvicka I'll let this piece speak for itself..."Fairy tales, then, are not responsible for producing in children fear, or any of the shapes of fear; fairy tales do not give the child the idea of the evil or the ugly; that is in the child already, because it is in the world already. Fairy tales do not give the child his first idea of bogey. What fairy tales give the child is his first a clear idea of the possible defeat of bogey. The baby has known the dragon intimately ever since he had an imagination. What the fairy tale provides for him is a St. George to kill the dragon." Then the question arises rightly so that should we imitate the Saints and take up our cross. Although that takes time in a material world.

[@patrickkparrker413]

Pure and utterly heresy.

[@patrickkparrker413]

And dragons can be killed .

[@MortenBendiksen]

I have half-heartedly sort of kind of decided to maybe follow Christ except if it feels wrong and is kind of inconvenient etc., and the condemnation the story itself gives to this sort of following is hard to deny and hard to not beg for forgiveness for not living up to. He willingly entered into our midst, befriended us, knowing we would utterly deny, betray, and treat Him like crap precisely for being who he is. Have you ever been rejected by anyone? Think of being rejected by everyone and all your friends in the worst way possible precisely for caring for them. The truth this story tells of humans cuts deep. Intellectually I have all sorts of doubts and excuses, but my heart bleeds for Christ. I think many peoples hearts do, even though their mind is not on board. Is anyones mind completely on board? Should it be before one can say one believes?

[@ronandoherty1295]

One need not hear any voice because silence is Gods favorite language. One need not believe or disbelieve what has happened in the past because God resides in the eternal present and to meet Him one must oneself become present ie not identifying with or as this or that but just being still. All Douglas needs to do like us all is to meditate ardently day and night and communion with the Living God beyond all concepts. Few Christians live the truth of these words.

[@wilfsidekick6888]

There’s no one as deaf as someone who doesn’t want to hear !

[@Quinn37]

Yes! That has also been my experience when talking to believers!

[@wilfsidekick6888]

I guess it comes down to what hearing is and how we hear it,

[@Quinn37]

@Jeff Mrkvicka I disagree that "the average believer is pretty stupid" There are tons of intelligent believers, they have just been indoctrinated. Escaping religion is not easy, it takes a lot of moxie to overcome fear and indoctrination...as well as time. I urge more compassion and understanding.

[@Quinn37]

@Jeff Mrkvicka I'm sorry if I misunderstood your original comment. You said that the "average believer is pretty stupid" if you are saying that the average person is pretty stupid, and that the average believer is of average intelligence, than I cant disagree with the statement, it is just unnecessarily insulting. Further, you would have to say the average non believer is pretty stupid, and becomes meaningless in the context of your comment. Finally, presumably you cant do at least some of the things you just mentioned, we would logically have to say you're pretty stupid too. In which case why would your comment be useful?

[@Quinn37]

@Jeff Mrkvicka in the words of george Carlin..."think about how dumb the average person is and then realize half the population is even dumber"

[@waynemills206]

Internal dialogues are invariably used when assessing cognitive models of the world around us. These are usually accompanied or narrated with our internal voice, but since these dialogues are not received from the ear, they are still processed through our aural centers and as such can take a different tone as if another voice is contributing - which we could misconstrue as an external source. They can also take the form of intuitions of the gut and heart, yet these are generally initiated by hormonal secretions as a result of external stimuli or internal, cognitive modelling in the brain. To posit the brain can send/receive messages exclusive of the rest of the body needs to be demonstrated before being believed.

[@Oraf843]

He has perfect knowledge of every tiny detail of our being so of course He knows how to communicate with us. Forced conviction is abduction. Have faith pal. What do you have to loose..

[@waynemills206]

@@Oraf843 How do you know you are not fooling yourself with this external communication? What and how is the method used and how can that be tested? Faith is the abdication of testable reason, otherwise we lose grip on how we interact with reality. What do you have to gain with ignorance other than be enchanted with magic? Free yourself.

[@Oraf843]

@@waynemills206 How do you begin to describe the taste of an apple to someone who has never tasted it? Sweet? Tangy? Doesn't quite cut it really. One of those journeys you take alone. Motivation? Aren't you curious as to why you were made?

[@waynemills206]

@@Oraf843 Curious yes, but when I am faced with an unknown number in a soduko puzzle, I don't use faith, and if I'm unable to solve it, it remains blank until my abilities to reason improve to the point of solving it. Sensory inputs are entirely subjective, but we do have shared inferences that we are often generally unaware of. Sweetness generally means a fruit is ripe, while sour means unripe. Sweetness indicates more sugar and more benefit to our consumption of calories. Our inferences tell us sweet is good and sour is bad, so we should expect that we would share, and relish that commonality. You may think you know why we were made, but there is no evidence we were made independent of biological processes. Curiosity has many questions and perhaps the soduko cell you need to figure out is how the supernatural interacts with the natural. Show your work.

[@Oraf843]

There you go Wayne. The answer is always within. The soduko puzzle is life, the unknown number is clearly God. The fact that you know if you put in the work, you'd get the results...that's the definition of faith cos it's intangible and not promised yet you believe in yourself and try anyway. one thing stands in your way; Pride. You must understand that you are not worthy of His presence (no one is), and simply cannot comprehend the wisdom of creation (no one can). You're looking for Him through a keyhole (your perception and idea of who He is), not realising you're standing right on the palm of His hand.

[@kypdurron62]

These comments are both predictable and entertaining. Common angles so far seem to be: Don't think, just believe, God will punish you for not believing, and Atheists love sin so much they are pretending not to believe in God. Truly staggering arguments.

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

The same could be said for the atheist here, it’s pretty dull at this point but yeah very predictable all around.

[@kypdurron62]

@@lifewasgiventous1614 Yes, atheist arguments are predictable because they follow rational thought.

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

kypdurron62 I’m not seeing many arguments here, just a lot memery but okay 👌

[@kypdurron62]

@@lifewasgiventous1614 Douglas is giving his argument right in this video, but if you want an argument, here is one. There is no empirical proof of god whatsoever.

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

kypdurron62 My reasons for believing likely won’t convince you, nor do I care to convince you, if your truly interested in having the most complete thought out worldview try scrutinizing your own with the same degree you do others and don’t hold back.

[@AString95]

Those seeking a sign, it will not be given to them. According to the Bible. “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah.” And He left them and went away.” ‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:4‬ ‭NASB‬‬

[@budd2nd]

A String Yeah, that’s convenient. Talk about writing in an escape clause lol 🤣🤣. Almost like they knew it was make-believe.

[@michaelanderson4849]

So it seems like this matthew guy thought that the generation present when Yeshua wandred about were not as much assholes and adulterers as the later ones.😂😂😂 I'm seriously interested in the data he used as a foundation for such a claim 🤔

[@ronaldmendonca6636]

This god is all-knowing, all-powerful, right? Then, it doesn't matter WHAT someone would say would convince them. God would know what it takes to convince someone. And, so far...nothing. There has never been any supernatural evidence presented. Ever. You just have to *believe*. No thanks.

[@bleirdo_dude]

You need to humble yourself in order to let in the *Holy Dopamine Ghost* ....

[@ronaldmendonca6636]

Cpt Blu Bawlz You mean, Casper The Holy Ghost?

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

Super natural, natural...these are all fudge words.

[@1MDA]

Well , that asumption proves its self to reveal that you never made any research about suposed supernatural expiriences. If you research new age people converting to Christianity you get lots of similar stories, they get in witchery, get supernatural experienced, negative or positive, and then find Jesus. Its at least interesting to hear the stories. In stead to make empty afirmations, it would be more scientific if you researched first.

[@ronaldmendonca6636]

Life was Given to us I agree. Please use some "non-fudge" words.

[@morsmagne]

He's misinterpreting what a "vision" is. It's not a hallucination - it's an epiphany - a sudden realisation. Also, people use personification a lot, e.g. - "Christ spoke to me." It's a quaint way of saying they had an epiphany.

[@isaiah30v8]

What it took for me was to have a prayer almost immediately answered. Within 30 minutes! . Since that time almost every other prayer has been answered. . .

[@PauloConstantino167]

You are a liar.

[@bleirdo_dude]

I prayed that my feet will not fall off. Hallelujah it's a miracle!

[@isaiah30v8]

@samuel fox ---- I think it was fulfilled by an alien: . John 8:23 So he went on to say to them: “YOU are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. YOU are from this world; I am not from this world. . .

[@isaiah30v8]

There are now many other evidences which cement my conviction. Such as the great sign mentioned in Revelation Chapter 12. . Search right here on KZbin for; September 23rd, 2017

[@Draezeth]

Same thing happened to me. I've always believed, but I've also always had doubts. I prayed, but lacked the faith to ask for anything concrete. Then one day I prayed that the Lord would prove Himself to me, and promised in return that what He did would remain between us. He did it that same day, several times, and has continued since.

[@greg3111987]

I don't think Douglas is asking to much as someone who has experiences like the one he describes.

[@alabamamothman2986]

Then you need to start listening atheist. The issue is within YOU. It ALWAYS has been.

[@AsixA6]

So, you've heard a supposed "god" taking in your head, theist?

[@alabamamothman2986]

@@AsixA6 At least I dont hear satan's voice atheist.

[@AynZ72]

I left the church for nearly 15 years and on my return, Jesus warned me that 'those who deny him he will reject before the father'.. I asked God to give me a dream or vision if Christianity was true and got the above warning. Douglas wants God to reveal to himself without repentance and a broken spirit.

[@Zoomo2697]

Well put... “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic - on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg - or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.” ― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

[@geoffrobinson]

If you love your sin, no amount of evidence will be sufficient.

[@PauloConstantino167]

I worship Satan. I hear his voice everyday. So what ? Satan is my Lord and King of the Universe.

[@brando3342]

@Paulo Constantino Nobody likes a troll. If you are serious, I truly hope you turn from the darkness.

[@jaywyse7150]

Grow up.

[@bleirdo_dude]

If you believe in ancient curses then no reason, or logic will reach you.

[@brando3342]

@@bleirdo_dude Men must work to eat and child birth is painful... these are things you don't believe in?...

[@sallymjmj750]

Once I felt a deep feeling of demonic presence. It was terrifying. I was afraid to speak, that the demon would know what I was thinking.

[@vizveebee]

I remember that feeling as a young mother, after I'd watched one of the horror movies in the 70s, I think it was the Exorcist or the Devils and I felt it was watching through my own eyes. A few years later we moved to U.A.E. and within the year I had found that I'd been a Believer all along, and with the multi national bible study I joined I realised how to bring my belief into True Christianity.

[@Hannah11235]

Ask Jesus to help you with all sincerity and vulnerability, you'll experience him. ~ Former atheist

[@raymondwolf22]

Mr. D. Murray - Are you familiar with the book, "Without Roots: The West, Relativism, Christianity, Islam" by both a Roman Catholic cardinal [Joseph Ratzinger, later Pope Benedict XVI] and an Italian, Marcelo Pera, president of the Italian Senate and (?) an atheist. Purpose: "To examine and reflect on the great issues of our time, including the West, Europe, Christianity, Islam, war, and bioethical questions" [back cover]. The book cover's front flap mentions " . . . the two leaders arrived at strikingly similar conclusions about the spiritual, cultural, and political crisis facing the West". Basic Books, 2006. Thank you. (-R. Wolf).

[@vizveebee]

He probably is, I was listening to him on an old KZbin reel where he is mentioning two of those people.

[@PauloConstantino167]

I worship Satan. I hear his voice everyday. So what ? Satan is my Lord and King of the Universe.

[@japexican007]

Paulo Constantino I mean we make our choice, a relationship with God or separation from him

[@starspangledbat]

Also you’re clearly saying that just to spite Christians, Muslims and Jews. Hardy har har Ha ha ha so funny. If you were truly an intellectual as Atheist and unbelievers love to call themselves (oh yeah pride about being right that’s so great isn’t it?). Anyway having Satan as your Lord and king of the universe is not an intellectual move. There’s no Scriptures, there’s no historical book or even historical evidence that the devil was ever king of the universe. Wether you like it or not you are still betting with Pascal’s wager and one of those 3 will turn out to be all of our outcome. It’s not wise on a mathematical sense to not choose God when it’s so easy. Then you lower your odds when you choose Satan. For as wise as you think you are remember the smartest man to ever exist on Earth Einstein disagrees with you and believes God to be Mathematically and scientifically possible. Remember you are bidding nothing and all you will win if you’re right is pride (pride that you’ll never get the chance to bask in because you’ll be dead and unaware).

[@20july1944]

@@starspangledbat Well said. This malignant weirdo is saying "IF there is a most-powerful spiritual being whose orientation is evil, I'm his bitch." Strange approach, much stranger than simple, ignorant atheism.

[@carolineoates5964]

Have a care Paulo. He is a deceiving liar. Your soul is too precious.

[@Quinn37]

@@carolineoates5964 what is a soul?

[@zikfocus]

I would really like to find out what are his, DM thoughts on Međugorje phenomenon from 1981!? Bunch of Croatian kids, six of them of all ages, had the same vision and receiving the same messages from mother Mary Saint. Communist tried through interrogation to crack the kids but failed. It was going on for many years

[@edmundoftheangles7977]

Nope don't believe him

[@Realist-sh3dg]

Hearing Voices, or Auditory Hallucinations, in Schizophrenia. Auditory hallucinations, or hearing voices, is a common symptom in people living with schizophrenia. In fact, an estimated 60 to 90 percent of people with schizophrenia hear voices.

[@bleirdo_dude]

I heard you say that. ^.^

[@greg3111987]

That's not what he on about

[@highfunq2863]

perhaps it possible to be so deeply divided from God that one fails to sense any type of revelation or contact in the slightest because that is simply not what one has attuned or focused their mind and soul on da vinci's painting had both God reaching down - but also man reaching up...which illustrates poignantly understandable that pointing to a perceived absence external to us is easier, and maybe a little more difficult to point to the absence of Godliness in ourselves given the infinitude of our egos. working on the premise that God is real and God is perfect good and love, then the absence or active suppression of these attributes in ourselves necessarily become barriers to communion. this is assuming that the natural divides that distinguish between things that differ fundamentally (like that between good/evil, or a good God/the fallen man) actually exist. presumably a divide that will continue until some type of reconciliation occurs, like that through Jesus...which is the Christian thesis. i always believed it best that i should question myself, if not first, then equally as much as i question the things outside of me what if my mind is a signal receiver much like a radio, and i've been messing with the antenna through my wrong decisions and bad actions my entire life - a youth spent detuning the mind towards the carnal what if the signal is out there and i only have to find the right frequency and fix this receiver of mine...

[@Orthodoxi]

highfunq it has been said “ask and you shall receive” 🙏❤️😇

[@Quinn37]

@@Orthodoxi Have you ever asked and not received?

[@Quinn37]

Why would you start with the premise that god is real, perfect good and love?

[@Orthodoxi]

Dan Pfaffenberger yes and no.

[@highfunq2863]

@@Quinn37 Because that's the general thesis of Christianity specifically. We are, of course, free to develop our own based on the premise that 'God is not real'/'God is real but not perfect good and love'. Then extrapolate from that. I could not cover the entirety of possible premises in a KZbin comment - simply sharing where I'm at currently in my personal journey. My point was more a reflection that I should question my own motives, my own short-comings and be as honest on that front, as I would be in regards to what is external to me e.g. the absence of God's voice.

[@adrianmack8537]

Ask yourselves this question.... is there an infinite? Then go further... if so, is the infinite intelligent? Enjoy

[@IpsissimusPrime]

Really? Despite this being around for awhile, I have to ask: "what voice would you expect to hear, Douglas?" A voice in your own language? I find that suspect. Very suspect in fact. "The Word" of John, for example, is not a spoken word. If you think so then you don't "know" what you're talking about. Those that speak of hearing voices could be having some kind of supernatural experience, or a frank psychotic episode. Followers perhaps, but not real seekers. The mystic experience is about images. Symbols. Not words. Contemplation, in addition, is a solitary experience. And for the most part, those who say don't know, whereas those who know don't say. Douglas is quite a brain, so to speak, but that he's obviously not well read on any of the mystics is quite clear from this clip. I'd recommend he read Erigena, given that he's English, but Dionysius the Areopagite or, even better Meister Eckhart (in English translation by Walshe) write very directly about this: The Darkness (not "light") AND the Silence in particular (something which unfortunately Douglas doesn't seem capable of). BUT Mysticism goes beyond Christianity of course. Read the Vedas or any of the later Hindu or Buddhist texts. Then you'll have a better idea. Sorry but this is real fluff, even O'Reilly is not at her best in this talk.

[@RamBam3000]

It would of course be a still, small voice speaking after a mighty wind, an earthquake and a fire.

[@tomgreene1843]

Bring back the spirit of Newman.

[@maryabraham244]

Douglas Sir should read Psalm 50. God speaks, testified, summons, says......

[@brianmoran1196]

Believers lack humility and their belief is so unsound that they require others to believe. I like the humble last comment of Douglas "one of my favourite bits of Elliot", ....Elliot not some comfortable god.

[@cinderelladevil1687]

No. I do not "require" anybody to believe. Faith is not a matter of ballots to be won. We are not proud or arrogant because we know as a part of our Faith that we cannot bring others into believing. All we know is, as DM wisely says, that a leap is required to believe, and that leap cannot be jumped only by reasoning. We are only certain that religion requires reason but transcends it. If you engage in conversation with a true religious person he or she will never push you into believing. That is what happened to me.

[@mickeyh1961]

You don't need to hear voices to believe in God or a creator . Just been alive thinking experiencing aware or nature the gift life is and how special we individually are should be reason enough to come to the conclusion we are part of a bigger plan than just biology

[@budd2nd]

mickeyh1961 Without any evidence? I don’t think you should base a life on blind assumptions.

[@myla6135]

@@budd2nd Providing the outcome is good it should not matter that you don't have sensory or scientific evidence. I'm sure I don't have evidence of that nature for all the assumptions I make in life. If I waited till I did I might not get very much done and very likely might experience a great deal of anxiety.

[@budd2nd]

Myla I agree with you that having evidence is not always necessary for ordinary life. Things like “should I walk or take the bus today ?” Choosing to believe in something like a god is a much bigger decision than my example. I don’t base big decisions on flimsy evidence though.

[@myla6135]

@@budd2nd Fair enough, but you use the words "blind assumptions" and "flimsy evidence". That might be what this means to you and describes how you see God. For those that do believe none of it is blind or flimsy. They are not basing big decisions in the manner in which you perceive they are.

[@budd2nd]

Myla Ok, so what actual evidence do you have for your belief, that isn’t “flimsy” or “blind assumption” ? Because I’d love to see some but never have.

[@YohananBenYosef]

Don't lay to much importance into the religious experience. If you connect to the tradition of revelation and human thought you are basically connected with what is living with God about. The hebrew bible tells you that what it says is not far from you (in the 5th book of Moses, Deuternonomy). This means what the best of religion is about is soaked with reasoning however not in the Kantian sense but in the sense of the common sence that repects the tradition of human thought in philosophy and law. Basically this is the conservative way, Roger Scruton and Yoram Hazony in recent years describe. Religion then is just the human culture and gathering of these convinctions and the belief that the creator of all stands for these values.

[@overcamehim]

Before Murray returns to faith in Christ, he needs to reflect deeply on what it will cost him.

[@celestethisandthat8887]

I've never heard voices or seen a vision because I'm mentally stable and don't take drugs

[@carolineoates5964]

Oh yes Douglas please believe. It's all true. I have heard the Lord say Isaiah and I am always with you. Both happened this year since I gave my life to Jesus. Also, in April, May and June 2019 I had heavy bleeding from a uterine polyp. After fervent prayers this suddenly ceased in July and none since June. I had a brief vision as if I was the bleeding woman in the Gospels. I could see the ground beneath the Lord's feet as he passed me by in the crowds. I touched his robes and the vision ended. Praise the Lord. The polyp was removed surgically in December 2019. Oh Douglas there's a whole new world out here. Join us.

[@cinderelladevil1687]

What is the use of Faith then? Faith is pivotal to Religion. Even those who are given the gift of visions and voices might dircard them as madness. And why should I doubt that someone's experience is fake?

[@NinaNina-un4qm]

No problem for God.....for nothing is impossible for Him. I’ve experienced both - thanks be to God.

[@MrJoeybabe25]

I live in Israel and consider myself a Jew/Diest. And of course SOMETHING happened here. This is the center of the religious world, and while God as expressed by the "event" on Mount Sinai is a fairy tale, the world of rabbis and learning and the apotheosis of the three great religions is not laid upon air. Very important things happened here (what...is open to debate) and we should not discount the value of religion in its part in man's first attempt at philosophy even while the basis (the concept of God) which upon it lays, is untrue.

[@eva_annety]

What makes you so sure about that concept of god is untrue?

[@eva_annety]

@Jonathan Archer Ending all the corruption worldwide would be the solution, that's true. But in the end I don't think our morality is evolving over time to something better, there are allways some individuals or groups who won't play fair. But I hope at the end the peoples will overcome racism and hatred in such a grade, that politicans can't play their games anymore.

[@MrJoeybabe25]

@@eva_annety There is not one scintilla of evidence for the existence of a specific God. It takes a leap of faith to go only as far as I am willing to go, that perhaps, there was a creative force (God) who created the world, but then walked away having created the being that would become human, thus allowing the world to be run by man. I cannot prove any of the above. I cannot PROVE the non-existence of God. The onus is on the God people who if they will admit that God (any God) is simply a matter of belief, I am cool with that. But when some of my Orthodox pals here in Israel claim there is proof that the Torah is divine, I must weigh in.

[@richardthenryvideos]

Well that sounds familiar..."an evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah" Matthew 16:4

[@Quinn37]

Generally speaking do you think it is evil to ask for evidence before believing things, or does this only apply to god belief?

[@richardthenryvideos]

@@Quinn37 craving a sign. Jesus is sufficient. He says so. Yes it's evil to not trust the Lord Almighty maker of heaven and Earth. Everybody uses faith. But some folks give 'science' a pass. But as humans we are all worshipers, but most worship what they can see

[@Quinn37]

@@richardthenryvideos There have been many claims of divinity throughout history, do you not agree? Shouldn't I check them for validity, that is seek the evidence? Is evidence different that a sign?

[@shinHis3]

@@Quinn37 I think the point is no amount of evidence suffices. Just logically speaking, why would you think a God who precedes everything that exist and is either directly or indirectly the reason they exist could be proven by them? He's not bound to them. The lower is bound by the higher, not the other way around. I can understand people with lesser understanding than me, but they can't understand me. Sight cannot be explained by the blind and sound cannot be explained by the deaf. When someone asks you to believe in something of a higher plane of understanding, your only choices are to believe or not because understanding them in our current form isn't even a possibility. No amount of evidence will suffice for the blind man to confirm sight actually exists. I'm a believer, but just like the blind man might think maybe these "people with sight" are just other blind people playing pranks on me, these doubts also come to me sometimes. You will never have enough information to confirm God exists. Believing always requires a leap of faith. This also applies to everyday life and believing God doesn't exist, but it seems ppl like to think they're completely logical and don't do things out of habit/to make faster decisions. If you're serious I'd ask you to pray a simple prayer of "if you really exist, God, then show me the right way cos I really don't think you exist" or whatever prayer rings more true to you along those lines.

[@jeremywhitehorn1228]

Esther, why would Billy Graham call Winston Churchill "Mr Prime Minister", in the fifties ??

[@patwilliams3036]

Logos is the intellect. It started the best governments and universities in the world, arguably always, but even a famous devote atheist noticed, it sure does seem the universe was not only designed but designed just for us. All the design and order is likely all the proof you'll ever get. And as we move forward we only see more design and order. Follow Dr James Tour or Dr Lennox or many others, you just don't hear about them.

[@sierrabianca]

Pat Williams If the universe is "designed just for us", how would you explain the unnecessary vastness of its scale, the fact that almost the entirety of it is hostile to our biological existence and wholly ignorant of our presence? You also said that "as we move forward we only see more design and order". How does this fit with even the local certainties regarding arbitrary asteroid strikes and natural disasters sufficient to cause mass extinctions as they have done many times, let alone the ultimate demise of the sun which will destroy the earth and the ever quickening expansion and ultimate heat death of the Universe? Why would God 'design' something to fall apart?

[@Mackaygolf]

Your logic is devoid of rationale thought, circular, and fallacious. Literally. Sad.

[@patwilliams3036]

@@sierrabianca The scriptures said all this from the beginning. The vastness of space, the predictability of the laws of nature. We are to subdue the earth. The laws of nature, from orbits to DNA are designed and predictable even if there is disease and failure. You should give some credit to the bible, those in science who do note that only the bible was correct about space, time, matter, and the expanding universe (see Dr Hugh Ross). How amazing was it that for thousands of years the bible said something was outside of time and space (that was unheard of until the 1900s AD) the universe was not eternal and was expanding and had an end, and will eventually end (The elements will melt away with a fervent heat). Lots of scientists to recommend who are Christians if you need more let me know.

[@patwilliams3036]

@@Mackaygolf Yet, factual.

[@sierrabianca]

@@patwilliams3036 "We are to subdue the earth." An extremely dangerous point of view. You may have noticed that over half of all wildlife has been wiped out in the last 50 years alone, the Earth's ecosystems can't take much more of this subjugation. Probably not important to someone who views humans as the crown of creation though. "The laws of nature, from orbits to DNA are designed and predictable even if there is disease and failure" So God is an incompetent designer? The Bible does not accurately describe any of the attributes of the Universe at large, or the natural systems within it. It's given this facade by liberally interpreting passages in the light of scientific discoveries. If the Bible was accurate in these regards we would see a one to one correlation and convergence over time between scientific discoveries and Biblical 'facts'. You would've had Biblical scholars arguing the hypothesis of an expanding Universe long before the scientists stumbled upon it. The truth is precisely the opposite and it was scientists who had to fight to correct scriptural orthodoxy in the beginning (Galileo) and the rate of divergence has increased ever since. Any vague similarity to scientific fact that can be construed is done only by the virtue of being accidental. And as if to highlight this point about interpretation you used this quote "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.." You'll no doubt claim that the reference to the Earth burning up indicates the red giant phase which will end the Sun's life and destroy the Earth. But this quote, if read literally, treats the destruction of the Earth and that of the Universe as happening simultaneously, which is erroneous. There will be trillions of years between these occurrences. And the Universe will not end with 'great noise' or a 'fervent heat'..in fact it will be as far to the opposite of that as it's possible to get. It will end in frigid cold and endless silence. All of these claims rely on a fallacious assumption anyway, the circular argument which asserts God's existence through the revelation of the Bible and the Bible's inerrancy by virtue of God's revelation within.

[@MichaelHannatoday]

The Urantia book is what you're looking for

[@bleirdo_dude]

That's a special kind of slow thinking.

[@evemichelle]

I wonder if Douglas has truly asked and seeked, if he has then God will definitely reveal His truth. This happened to me many times. As the bible says knock and the door shall be opened to you, seek and you shall find, He is not far from any one of us 🙏🙌