Downgrade at Southern Seminary: Higher Criticism (Part I)

Dr. Russell Fuller discusses the subject of Higher Biblical Criticism, and Dr. Al Mohler's role in knowingly hiring Dominick Hernandez who advocated for the approach, on the campus of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky.
Response to SBTS Videos on Hernandez and Pennington:
enemieswithinthechurch.com/20...
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Donate to Enemies Within the Church (501c3)
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Grace Baptist Church benevolence fund to help SBTS professors (501c3)
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Dr. Russell Fuller Facebook Page: / russell.fuller.982
Mentioned in this Video
Concerns Concerning Dr. Dominick Hernandez
enemieswithinthechurch.com/wp...
Mythopoetic Imagery Relating to the Firstborn of Death and
the King of Terrors, Society of Biblical Literature (2017)
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Dominick Hernandez Dissertation: Will the lamp of the wicked wane? : the prosperity of the wicked as a theme in Job and the Ancient Near East (2016)
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Dr. Fuller's Separation Agreement
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[@jackjones3657]

May God bless Dr. Fuller! We are seeing so few people with the courage to shine light onto darkness in these last days.

[@jlronning]

I've known Russell Fuller since we were at Dropsie together, 1985/86. He is solid and has always been zealous for the truth and reformation. Institutions that think they can build the kingdom of God by human means are not worthy of support.

[@michaelb3522]

2 Tim 3:16-17 is not just about biblical inerrancy, but also about the all sufficiency of scripture. Spot on brother.

[@izthebiz539]

so sad the teaching institutions are in this state!

[@vitaluz605]

Good to be informed of this frightening situation that is developing in these christaian institutions. Thx Jon and dr Fuller for being standfast in faith

[@brianroads3694]

God bless this man! I hope some clear doors open for this brother!

[@Gospelmama1940]

My heart breaks at these people who are being lured to jump ship from their moorings into the sea of apostasy. I think (and I am a mere wife/mother/grandparent who believes the Bible is God's Word as supported in the Baptist faith and Message 2000) - in no way a "scholar." But for me this abandoning of historic Christianity is the clearest evidence that we are living in the last days! And thank God for men like this gentlemen who is faithful to the Word. May God provide for him and others who are flung aside by former seminaries who are now employing heretics.

[@cat-bg3rv]

​@@Gospelmama1940✝️📖🌱 Maranatha 😊

[@LittleBritchesAB75]

Somehow the hierarchy of the SBC who are pushing the "downgrade" have little regard for their fate, "It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of The Living God." Hebrews 10:31

[@seth418]

I took Dr. Fuller for Hebrew at SBTS. A good professor and a stand-up individual. Thanks Jon for this interview and for your desire to uncover the truth. Stay focused! Stay diligent! Keeping you in prayer!

[@susanbender6029]

The policy for interviews needs an added paragraph adding all interviews be recorded, even if there is one person or a panel in attendance. Dr. Fuller, thank you for your caring.

[@bachrattler4771]

I'm glad you DIDN'T disable comments. Thanks Jon. . I once read " if you take shots at the "king( a org. Person or agenda) do not miss. 14k views great. Keep at it.- Wiskeytangobaptist out. .

[@joshwilson1128]

Your link for Hernandez's dissertation goes to a different document.

[@MrKC23]

This series has made me think twice about book endorsements, I am more wiser now. Thank you

[@Archimedes616]

Hernandez is now at Talbot School of Theology, Biola University. What's up with that?

[@brotherjohnreid9473]

There appears to be a swamp in the SBC...

[@ProudJew348]

I took classes from Dr. York and it is shocking that he would go off a cliff like that. What in the world has happened to my alma mater?

[@jasonstrange1490]

The Bible Project has "The Satan & Demons" video. Is this influenced by the same school of thought? The video says the Hebrew has "the" in front of it, meaning "The Adversary". Is this true?

[@bachrattler4771]

They put Pennington on the hot seat. I can't wait for Part 3. . . I know Dr. Orrick would not do an interview but his integrity and character would be a highball out the park. . . .

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

How do you know that?

[@bachrattler4771]

Hey could. I just don't see him doing an interview. If he did great.

[@Scott0020]

Good stuff Jon

[@michaeldirrim2361]

I watched the response from Southern. Dr, Hernandez stated in the video that the Biblical authors do not contradict. He said they are in agreement. Here's what he wrote in his dissertation: "The understanding of just retribution in the eschaton and the dichotomy between light and darkness to differentiate between good and evil emerge in early Christianity as well, which is evident in the writings of the New Testament (cf. 1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Jn 1:5; 3:19-21; 8:12; 9:4-5; 11:9-10; 12:35-36, 46). Just retribution theology did not fade after Job-despite his harsh words against the doctrine." (Dissertation, 289) Dr. Fuller's notes on this and other matters are well documented. Worth reading.

[@melissabock4025]

Do you have a link to the dissertation anywhere? The one provided on here just lists things available in a library.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@nancyallen7461]

So what did Dr. Hernandez say that contradicts Scripture as charged by Dr. Fuller? This quote affirms God's righteous judgment over the humans He created. Could there be anything else? Why introduce malice by distorting what Dr. Hernandez meant by what he said?

[@michaeldirrim2361]

@@nancyallen7461 How is Dr. Fuller introducing malice? How is he distorting Dr. Hernandez' meaning? His quote is neither affirming nor denying God's righteous judgment over the humans He created. Dr. Hernandez indicates that such ideas as final judgment and a clear distinction between good and evil "emerge" in early Christianity. This means that Dr. Hernandez believes these themes were both held and developed by early Christianity. Whether or not he affirms it is besides his point. His point is that Job expressed harsh words against such beliefs as final judgment and a clear distinction between good and evil. Hernandez writes clearly (and this is not the only place if you will read his writings) that authors in the Bible disagree with one another. They contradict each other. Now, is that a Biblical notion? Dr. Hernandez is saying publicly that he does not believe Biblical authors contradict each other. His writings, however, show that he does believe this. The only person introducing malice is Dr. Hernandez through this subterfuge. The only person distorting the meaning of Dr. Hernandez' writings is Dr. Hernandez.

[@TheJohnh24]

A little additional OT piece of leaven for Southern...but it seems they are saturated enough already... sad for the students and the body of Christ!

[@michaelb3522]

You should really playlist these 3 videos.

[@brianalvey7428]

SBTS has given a response in regards to this interview. I watched all of it and they were very careful to not ask specific questions regarding many of things Dr. Fuller addressed and it all seemed very rehearsed. For those who want to say Dr. Fuller is lying, he refused to take money that would benefit his family in order to present the truth. Would you?

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying for damage control. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@Terminus_El_Camino]

This is very discouraging to hear. I still listen to The Briefing podcast every morning while I'm getting ready for work. I find it overall sound, although I don't like his quotations of MLK in recent episodes. I don't think that is a good idea at all.

[@theresa42213]

Fuller is a TRUE man of God! He, and people like him should be strongly supported! He brings _GLORY_ to our Lord!

[@fuzfire]

Our SBC church is looking for a Pastor. Our longtime Pastor retired. Our Church knows nothing about all the problems in the SBC. What should we say to the Pastor search committee about what to look for, seeing many of these new graduates are being taught liberal theology?

[@mikeyonce2323]

Many thanks to Jon and Dr. Fuller! Anxious to hear the next installments.

[@ejdulis]

Just starting the video and looking forward to the content. First impression: Jon, you'll help yourself greatly with some fill lights and backlights.

[@annerector8765]

I thought the same thing....the scene looks as if they are in a darkened theatre before the movie starts.

[@georgefredericks2699]

This interview and the other parts are very informative. The Southern Seminary has had in the past a very liberal position. It has been thought that Dr. Mohler had a great impact on coming back to a more conservative position for the school. It is sad to hear this. This liberalism is rearing its head at Southwestern Baptist Seminary. Jude talks about this in verse four. I hear all the time on the great problem in the SBC is Reformed Theology. This is wrong. 1. While attending SWBTS I was taught as fact a very a-millennial position on the end times. This is considered to be a reformed position. I personally hold to a literal end time scenario similar to a dispensational position. 2. Throughout the SBC most members would be at least in their position of soteriology 3 to 4 point Calvinist. I have not met a Southern Baptist who holds that one can lose or can reject one salvation (eternal security). The problem in our denomination is not Reformed Doctrine, but it is the Neo-evangelical stance that many of our leaders are taking. I keep our denomination in prayer, from our president to the lay-person in the pew. May God protect us from error. Remember, the church of Thyatira.

[@tronbandit]

What a scoop! He was my intro to hebrew/syntax as well as OT1/2 prof. A man of integrity through and through!

[@TheJohnh24]

How can you hire somebody from Princeton Theological Seminary! Dr. HERNANDEZ Are you out of your mind?

[@TheRoger1205]

Thank you for bringing Dr. Fuller's insight to this important topic! I am sure God will bless him for taking a stand for Truth!

[@jackjones3657]

Yes! It's encouraging that God always knows and it will counted as righteousness to Dr. Fuller!

[@jeffsams2834]

God bless Dr. Fuller and his family! His courage has been of inestimable importance to God's people.

[@CaseyCovenant]

God Bless you Dr. Russell Fuller!

[@tomhitchcock8195]

Is it possible that outside sources of revenue are making our institutions immune to tithes of the people?

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

Totally immune no, but far less responsive.

[@annerector8765]

@Curtis Loftis great points, thanks

[@markbowen5553]

Where is "Part 2?"

[@annerector8765]

It's now out there as is Part 3.

[@kookpatrol7490]

My friend wants to go there for music where should he go instead

[@deanellis9463]

Tell him to go to The Master’s University/Seminary in L.A. under Dr. John MacArthur-it is one of the truly conservative institutions left in the country.

[@catfishkonawa]

So here are Dr. Fuller's claims: 1) SBTS faculty is covertly liberal 2) They profess adherence to the Abstract of Principles as a facade, in order to teach liberal doctrine unhindered 3) SBTS has been conservative up until the hiring of Dr. Hernandez, at which point there is some sort of concealed movement to bring him onboard despite his liberal views. I am currently an online student. I will say that I don't understand the idea behind the Non disclosure agreement, but with the exception of that, I can only surmise that Dr. Fuller's claims are just not rational. I am also concerned about using the word 'liberal' because it is strategically used as an emotional weapon (within the SBC) to incite people to 'arms,' and in this case undeservedly. I've sat under liberal teachers at other seminaries. I know the difference. SBTS is not liberal.

[@TheJohnh24]

Stop online..., get real in touch with teachers and students and then you learn better what biblical teaching is and what not! It seems you just started out, don't let teachers make fiction out of the Bible, go somewhere else! I know a hand full other options!

[@catfishkonawa]

@@TheJohnh24 actually i'm 51 years old and I have 70 hours towards my Mdiv. And Ive been serving overseas for 15 years now in a muslim context. That is why i take classes online. Southern is very solid. Inerrancy and the sufficiency of scripture. Its probably the best seminary option in the nation.

[@rossbriannestein5054]

If I were you I would leave SBTS. My encouragement to you, depending where you are theologically, check out some of the smaller seminaries, Shepard's seminary, The Master's Seminary, virginia beach theological seminary . . Just to name a few. I find that in smaller seminaries they can really take the time to vet the professors to ensure that they are all super solid.

[@stevedoyle6139]

"The Satan"... O my goodness. The shock! The horror. The literal translation of Scripture. How dare he!

[@c.m.granger6870]

So is the Jim Hamilton interview with Mr. Hernandez posted today simply damage control?

[@annerector8765]

Probably, yes. Almost everything Jim Hamilton does is either self-aggrandizing, C our As, or damage control.

[@aldocardenas8509]

Great interview John!!!! The more I learn about what's going on within my beloved Baptist Family, The more my heart aches for them. Because most people sitting on the pews Sunday after Sunday are clueless about this reality. I grew up in Guatemala and attended a boys only Catholic School from first grade through HS and back then when that country was fighting against communism I didn't completely understand the liberation theology taught by the religious professors there, well, All this social gospel reminds of that except that it is happening within people who have greater knowledge of The Word of God. Thank you for the job you're doing by not only exposing it but also presenting the evidence for those of us who care about it. God bless you!

[@JRRodriguez-nu7po]

My childhood was in Cuba, full communism, this is a restatement of Marxism changing money for power. It is now not just an economic class struggle; it is fomenting division, hatred and war among an endless number of classes. Critical ANYTHING theory is about as opposite to the Gospel as one can get.

[@seanmoore9713]

At some point, SBC leadership will have to acknowledge this. Us in the pews need to make sure this gets noticed. Good work bro.

[@James_Beevers]

Watch the video that SBTS released with Dr. Hernandez. Unless he is lying through his teeth, Fuller is WAY off in his critique.

[@seanmoore9713]

@@James_Beevers I would suggest comparing what is written in the relevant parts of the dissertation to what is said in that video. The video SBTS put out is not all we have to go on.

[@TheJohnh24]

Dr. Hernandez got his M.Div. from Princeton! Th y, higher criticism in its element! Bible=Fiction

[@jjalexg82]

Wow..

[@fandude7]

When will Baylor in Waco, Tx be investigated in regard to their liberal professors?

[@deanellis9463]

That ship sailed a LONG time ago…

[@crazzzyron]

its sad to think Mohler may be President of SBC.

[@veracityohaney]

Why were they so intent on hiring Hernandez?

[@bachrattler4771]

To appease "political correctness" social justice pressure. Trying to become " diverse" in faculty.

[@TheJohnh24]

For the accreditation committee?

[@TheJohnh24]

J Pennington just clarified in the interview, the creed's are the right interpretation of the bible, is there no authorial intent? That means, we are not looking for the one interpretation? With Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic? I'm wondering how the students can cope with J Pennington who believes Isaiah in one part and Jes 53 as the only interpretation for Christ as he is confirming in the interview, while on the other hand D Hernandez would not follow these conclusions in his writings and teachings to the students...

[@Kikuye]

I did a class on Jesus and the Four Gospels, and our teacher had us read "Reading the Gospel's Wisely" by Johnathan Pennington. He has a chart about the different "meanings" and then he gets kind of odd explaining the idea of right meaning being the same as all various situations that are right application or something like that....yeah it didn't sit quite right with me, but it makes sense now when people are saying he's basically embraced (at least in part?) post modern thinking/ideas.

[@gregb6469]

Horw is it that 18- and 22-year professors are fired, and a 1-year newbie is kept on? Did not Drs Fuller and Orrick have tenure?

[@emerybayblues]

IDT SBTS has tenure.

[@gregb6469]

@@emerybayblues --IDT?

[@michaeldirrim2361]

@@gregb6469 I Don't Think

[@paulburdine88]

They eliminated tenure about 5-6 years ago and since then have fired at least three professors that would have had tenure.

[@cranmer1959]

Well, it's all about hiring minorities to create a more racially diverse faculty to fit with the critical race theory agenda. I don't have a problem with hiring minorities who are actually conservative. Why doesn't SBTS hire someone like Voddie Baucham? Answer? They are not really interested in hiring conservatives.

[@hesavedawretchlikeme6902]

Correct. Most SBC people in the pews know nothing of critical race theory and the liberal drift toward ecumenism. I addressed this with my pastor in detail and he ignores it. I think my own fellowship in this church is now in jeopardy. Thank you Dr Fuller for standing in truth.

[@TheJohnh24]

Unfortunately, a lot of pastors don't know and don't care...

[@markrogers7546]

God bless you brother for your faithfulness to the Lord and His Word. He will reward you, even when men spurn the truth you teach.

[@veracityohaney]

This will be interesting.

[@js1423]

"I would treat the Bible like other ANE literature" What's wrong with that, exactly, academically speaking?

[@chrisdotson3520]

I'm confused about the mythology critique. It seems to me that ancient people all believed in real, "mythological" entities. Why are they automatically considered wrong? Maybe the Bible and other ancient texts have more insight into the spiritual realm than we do. What a novel thought.

[@jeffr196]

I've lost confidence in many church leaders/pastors because of this invisible blanket of silence regarding the left's inroads. Its really quite stunning. Thank you both for not fearing man, addressing troubling topics (as they present themselves) and helping us sheep to be informed. All the politically correct ideas (which aren't helpful) and the supportive bureaucracy being setup to sustain them, is only driving me closer to Christ and further from supporting the SBC and it's affiliates. Well done gentlemen and please continue to help us understand what is going on.

[@cigarlovers999]

Jeff Rauf I find your response both refreshing and insightful. I agree. The church in America is an absolute disaster. I suspect this COVID-19 situation is going to have some major fall out as well. The left are running the show, and the church has chosen to worship the culture rather than God. Thanks for your comment. May we all be filled with discernment in this season.

[@cat-bg3rv]

Three years later, I am feeling the same about who to trust in leadership of the church. I am blown away by learning what the heresy and apostasy is in the church. I am aware of the scriptures warning of this, especially stating in the last days, however long that is. Discernment is crucial but without the reading and understanding of The Word, you will not be able to discern correctly with the Holy Spirit's help. ✝️📖🌱

[@MarkADever]

Thank you for standing up for truth and integrity.

[@TonyHepp]

Well done Dr. Fuller! I'm proud of you.

[@deanellis9463]

Tell him to go to The Master’s University/Seminary in L.A. under Dr. John MacArthur. It is one of the truly conservative institutions left in the country.

[@nancyallen7461]

Wait a minute, who's to be believed here? Dr. Dominick S. Hernandez himself who made explicit his stance about this on the Southern Seminary interview (pls view video clip, 17 minutes only) or others' interpretation of what he wrote in his paper ? Are the readers more accurate than the author? C' mn. Besides, if you are truly for God, why create anothet venue for clarification? The best to ask about what his work means should be the author.

[@THCAPI]

@Nancy Allen The fact that words have meaning is part of the issue being discussed here. What would be the point of writing if this wasn't the case? You say: "others' interpretation of what he wrote in his paper", this comes across as "don't believe your lying eyes", gas-lighting even. Ironically it even comes back to the topic of Biblical Interpretation, if we can't even gleam the authors beliefs about a topic from an academic paper he wrote on it, what hope do we have of learning anything from our Bibles? The video you reference is a verifiable pack of lies, and it doesn't even have the common decency of addressing the brother who brought up the claims that it attempts to refute through these lies. Things are very amiss in the SBTS. "The best to ask about what his work means should be the author." No examination, no questioning, just believe whatever "the author" says about what they wrote in spite of those pesky words they committed to paper. Reality doesn't function like that. Words have meaning, in and of themselves, "the author" claiming they don't mean what they do is just a lie.

[@nancyallen7461]

@@THCAPI If that's how you view this situation, then it's not even what we think or our perception of who's telling the truth that matters. We can all be equally deceived if that's what you're saying. But God cannot be mocked. If we misrepresent Him, and in circumstances where His glory is at stake, He will be the first to judge . So it's best to leave this in the hands of God. .. But it seems like you're so bent on beating down the guy from your prejudice, calling him a " liar" from the pack of lies you have charged him with. And you question why he wouldn't address the other professor who has a different reading of his paper? But why should Dr. Hernandez do that? In the first place, he was never addressed directly by this professor, was he? In fact it seems like a sourgraping scenario, feeling bad about being dismissed by Southern and projecting the blame on Hernandez then again as though Southern conspired with Hernandez for his exit. It's really a case of wounded pride et. al. .. Hmm, it's more like a personal issue elevated to hit an institution and wishing its demise, worse because of co-conspirators. The gas leaks, the fumes are lethal, but God's wrath is even more terrifying, it consumes . I pray for you guys as we are commanded to pray for those who deliberately mislead others to sink the ship. God have mercy on you!

[@THCAPI]

​@@nancyallen7461 , first of all, the fact that you wrote this "If that's how you view this situation, then it's not even what we think or our perception of who's telling the truth that matters. We can all be equally deceived if that's what you're saying." is concerning. What we think does matter, if it is what our Lord commands us to think in His Word. "Our perception of who's telling the truth the truth" does not matter, the facts of the case do, and these can be objectively ascertained, which is why I used the word "verifiable" in the reply you've addressed. As the brother who produced this video so succinctly put on Twitter: "This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying in a damage control video." You can verify all of this for yourself, no need to go on the words of others, read the papers in question, listen to the video from the seminary and compare. "So it's best to leave this in the hands of God." This is a non-sequitur. There has been a pattern of conduct coming from Southern Baptism intelligentsia, and in general from "Big Eva" figures, that has believers in SB pews worried about their financial contributions and whether they are being used to the advance of our Lord's kingdom or to finance the adversary's encroachment into their denomination. They have all the right to be concerned about this issue and to seek its resolution as it pertains to the larger issue. Other, non-SB, Christians also care about this because of the size and influence of the organization. "But it seems like you're so bent on beating down the guy from your prejudice" This is slander, please take it back. You do not know who I am or anything about me in general, yet you accuse me baselessly of prejudice. I am not a Southern Baptist. I am not even North American. I'm familiar with the denomination because of the many missionaries it has sent to my country over the years and the churches they have started here. When years ago I heard the first rumblings of what would eventually come to this I was, if anything, predisposed toward defending Al Mohler because a pastor from the US who was pivotal in bringing me to Christ was a personal acquaintance, if not a personal friend, of Mr. Mohler and through his recommendations I became familiar with his writings and speeches and I could not reconcile the positions Al Mohler put forth previously with the actions he was taking now and so I reserved judgement for years. It took years for me get to the point where I cannot in good conscience defend these individuals anymore, I've lost trust, I've lost confidence, as have many others, and as the cases pile on a single direction I see no restoration in sight. I called him a liar, yes, and I reiterate it. I was presented evidence, I examined it and I watched his defense, which ended up not being a defense but the very cause of me calling him a liar. Had he not said the things he said in the seminary video and all I had to go on was his writings I would have not called him a liar. I wouldn't be able to call him my brother in good conscience given the doctrinal diferences, but except for what he said in the video I had no case to call him a liar. As it stands, given the contradiction between what he wrote and what he said I've no option but to call him a liar. You've made the bad choice of using the rest of your reply to, instead of addressing the claims made, personally attack Dr. Russel Fuller. Good grief! If I had defenders like you, I would not need any accusers! As to the last phrase of your reply, I hope that the folly of it has been demonstrated fully by now. God Bless!

[@noelmuscutt2135]

Hernandez and Hamilton address all the charges that Fuller levels against him: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6mUYYGFibRrq9k

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying for damage control. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@jorgesam90]

Hernandez is at Talbot now.

[@David-wq3dq]

and we wonder why higher critics have free reign in academia and are today the orthodox view of academia

[@izthebiz539]

Worldliness!

[@gregoryrice9998]

Mohler has been doing his own PR campaign. Freemasons need to repent or leave the conversation.

[@michaeldirrim2361]

I watched the response from Southern. Dr. Hernandez stated in that video that the author of Job and the thoughts of the friends (like Bildad) were not the same. Since that video does not allow for comments, I comment here. Here's what he wrote in his paper presented at the Society for Biblical Literature: _ "The author of Job was operating well within the common understanding of his cognitive environment when he warned (through Bildad) of these terrors and calamities that would befall the impious. If the author of Job believed that horrific beings such as the Firstborn of Death and the King of Terrors truly existed, it is easy to understand why he would include these characters in a speech urging someone to turn from wickedness"

[@nancyallen7461]

Since Scripture is inspired, the singular Author binding all human authors of the various books in the Bible is none other than God. What Hernandez points to in his mention of shifts or seeming contradiction in authorship leads us to think of the characters' voices ( the frames used) that contrast with the divine perspective. Because of the notion that suffering is brought about by sin, Bildad 's reading of Job's misfortune is an indictment from that same line of thinking: that Job deserved his suffering because he was not honest enough to admit his own moral depravity. That he needed to confess his wickedness if he were to expect deliverance from the plague of God's wrath .But of course there are higher things at stake in Job's trial, the fact that God was willing to put up a wager against Satan for Job's moral integrity. Job in the end was vindicated and his friends were indicted for thinking foolishly, for misrepresenting God. The reference to the Firstborn of Death and the King of Terrors is part of mythical obliqueness alluding to Satan.

[@michaeldirrim2361]

@@nancyallen7461 Dr. Hernandez did not write about "seeming" contradiction, but actual contradiction. The point of his words listed above this post is that Job was speaking through Bildad. About what? See post below. Job spoke through Bildad as a criticism against "just retribution theology." Bildad was used as a foil. What you're writing on Job would be heartily supported by Dr. Fuller as it goes, and you would do well to defend your own position as stated. But what you're defending is not exactly Dr. Hernandez' position according to his own writings. Dr. Hernandez thinks it is a real possibility that the author of Job believes in mythology, not just that the author is using it as an apologetic against paganism. Consider the actual words he uses in his writings, not the meaning we hope he has in them. He clearly believes that the author of Job opposed "just retribution theology" (see post below) a doctrine which is evident in Bildad and developed in the early church, especially in reference to the eschaton (the final judgment). Dr. Hernandez expresses that Job harshly opposes this doctrine. Job is in contradiction to other writers of Scripture. There is doctrinal disagreement. You seem to have a more orthodox understanding of Job than Dr. Hernandez. While I think it is admirable to defend your own views, you'll have to engage a little more closely with Dr. Hernandez' own writings on Job in order to defend his views.

[@TheJohnh24]

See, ...and this teaching is endorsed by Southern? Who said, they were biblically sound?

[@jeanetteeplin6217]

The Southern Batist Convention went down the tube a long time ago . Where were you when they were going down the tubes . The Southern Baptist Convention joined the Ecumenical Council many years ago . So why are you doing this .?

[@veracityohaney]

'bias of mind.' Great phrase. One aspect of it that I have encountered and observed in SBC leadership is the conviction that only The Leader and his vision was called of God to the institution and everyone there must agree to that and follow their vision (becauses it is from God). It is reinforced by the board who are four square behind the man that they hired and would be loath to think otherwise. Think or voice differently then you are gone.

[@anhe9547]

I'm having a hard time understanding the problem Dr. Fuller found in his former colleague's view on Job. Job, a Gentile, has a wisdom conversation with his 'friends.' And then in the end of the story Job has his encounter with God and it's revealed that God is angry at Job's friends "For you [Job's friends] have not spoken of me what is right." (Job 42:7). So if the center part of Job is a long conversation and at the end it's revealed that Bildad and his friends were wrong, why would it be a problem if Bildad has a Gentile mythological worldview? Even if you disagree with that interpretation, it's not that God's Word is teaching that view...if you read the whole story you'll see that it rejects that view. Why is this a problem?

[@kingsmantle]

Proverbs 18:17, "The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him."

[@010Bsanders]

Because it's a proverb that doesn't mean anytime someone states their case first, they're necessarily wrong. It's a proverb. And the only examination this has gotten was a scripted interview with contradictions between the other person and his papers

[@derkardinal9781]

Not that this makes things any better, but Southern is not the only purportedly orthodox seminary with serious problems. See the attached article on Westminster Theological Seminary (WTS) by Dr. Mark Karlberg: www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/The%20Trinity%20Review%2000304%20SpecialIssueMasterofDeceptionandIntrigue.pdf Al Mohler gave the fourth annual "Gaffin Lecture" at WTS in 2011. Gaffin teaches a subtle form of justification by faith and works.

[@kathleen6349]

Wow, very eye opening!

[@michaelshelnutt3534]

2 sides to every story.

[@Richardcontramundum]

Proverbs 18:17

[@jedidiahrojas8040]

How disappointing, this issue is. I learned however that indeed every christian must read, hear, and study the scriptures before trusting a speaker. Many christians nowadays would rather listen to whom they want to listen to and was astray from seeking truth, and instead listen to subjective truth. It is important for christians to always criticize in his mind what the speaker is saying, just like Dr. Fuller, we too must discern teachings, reject false teachings and correct teachings, no matter what the risk is.

[@bobvadney7240]

It’s the ol, liberal “ yea hath God said…..” syndrome Gen. 3:1-5… or in the modern vernac’ it’s C,mon…did God really say that…??? oh yeah……??? says who….????

[@stehir9260]

If you haven't read Machen's "Christianity and Liberalism", it is cheap on kindle and reads like it could be written very recently even though it was written close to 100 years ago. Evidence that liberal academia has become unteachable. Send your tithes elsewhere.

[@emerybayblues]

Okay this explains the whole “we love Dom Hernandez he’s a great professor “tweets.

[@josephleehamm]

Listen to Dominick Hernandez explain his views of the OT and how they relate to their ANE context: kzbin.info/www/bejne/raOpn3trbK6bbbc

[@Feralfax]

Southern just put out an interview with Hernandez that refutes what Fuller says here. I wonder who is telling the truth?

[@michaeldirrim2361]

Perhaps the guy that gave up a whole lot of money because he refused to sign a blackout non-disclosure agreement? Or perhaps the institution who has accumulated a track record of systemic obfuscation? Yes, I wonder as well.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying for damage control. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@bachrattler4771]

Who has lost Alot, job, money and who is trying to keep thier job???

[@jlronning]

that's addressed in part 2

[@TheJohnh24]

What is written, is written! What's so difficult, fellow? If the OT teacher would have written that Job was a real person he would not have passed his PhD!

[@TheJohnh24]

Yes, that's how it is at Southern! When I was visiting Trinity in '89, the professor gave the options, and the young learning students should decide... No, it is not the duty for the student to pick the right interpretation or doctrine! The discernment for the truth must be in the hand of the teacher!

[@mdona9]

It makes me so sad to think of the infiltration of CRT and higher criticism at SBTS. I admire them and MBTS and it makes me more attentive to my future seminary education.

[@michaeldirrim2361]

I got my MDIV from Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary in Memphis. They have taken a vocal opposition to this new wave of liberalization in the SBC.

[@mccandrew52]

Here is Dr. Hernandez, one of the people mentioned in this video, discussing the issues raised about him: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6mUYYGFibRrq9k

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying for damage control. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@bachrattler4771]

. Hernandez is the video is simply trying to keep his job.

[@bobvadney7240]

Hey fellas we are instructed on how to handle heresy… heretics….apostasy… & apostates in 2Jn1:7-11 ..” if the bring not the doctrine of Christ….STAY AWAY…,least we be partakes of their…. EVIL….DEEDS….

[@TomBreazeal]

SBTS put out a response video and conveniently has the comments section turned off......we need a video with SBTS and Dr. Fuller in one room.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

Lol. Dr. Fuller has a standing offer to debate. In the meantime. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@richardthenryvideos]

Tom Breazeal probably so trolls don’t flood the comments with useless speech

[@TomBreazeal]

@@richardthenryvideos That's part of being on KZbin but they wouldn't get much. It would be mainly believers watching...Censorship isn't a good tactic especially when an institution stands for truth which requires dialogue.

[@rexchen736]

@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast SBTS is like the Chinese communist party, they won't accept the debate and do everything to make them look good.

[@nancyallen7461]

Before you edited your reply, I had read the one flagrant line that you deleted which I believe is reaĺly your running theme -- "Many things are amiss in SBTS". .. so everything else echoes that. The insinuation about financial mismanagement (since SB seems to be "financing the adversary's encroachment" ), your disappointment with Al Mohler for now taking a different stance from his previous advocacy on orthodoxy?( or for his egregious inconsistency), for the maverick "lies" of Dr. Hernandez due to the contradiction between what he said in his paper & his damage control video, etc.. and so you've "lost trust, as many others have , and see no restoration possible".. Oh wow, you have just made clear how you condemn. I forgive you, brother. Forgive me for having slandered you, I thought it was prejudice that brought this about -- your hostility campaign against SBTS , against Al Mohler , against the liar in Dr. Hernandez. Forgive me for making it seem like a credibility battle between Dr. Fuller & Dr. Hernandez... you seem to see everything clear from your horizon of good conscience . May God's inviolable holiness not be compromised in your judgment, I pray.

[@philipbuckley759]

a liberal drift.....an interesting expression that seems to be....par, for the course.....for all denominations....

[@jimkang6298]

Dominick Hernandez was (and still is) connected to Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa (the mother of all Calvary Chapel churches). The church is semi-Pelagian/Arminian, and they see him as one of their own.

[@TurrettiniPizza]

This sounds the same as the Klineanism at Westminster California.

[@zondervangreek]

History always repeats itself. SBTS had this same problem with C. H. Toy. The founders even believed for a moment that same idea that Toy "was teachable."

[@TheJohnh24]

After a dissertation teachable...? In which way? I don't understand these hkM'ers, teaching this way and writing unbiblical, but then no problems signing for sound teaching and the orthodox faith!

[@fanbrux]

This is so disheartening. Dr. Fuller was my favorite professor during my time at Southern (97-01). It is unconscionable to me would take so much heat for standing for biblical truth (Mohler) only to slink back to their former selves. I can't understand it.

[@retrograd332]

It's so sad that Al Mohler turned out to be nothing but an opportunist and sometime who seems to only care about power.

[@bachrattler4771]

retroGRAD3 he is turning into that which he was to root out. President Honeycutt.

[@annerector8765]

Mohler hasn't "turned out to be" or "sometimes is" anything. He always was a suck-up hypocrite self-promoting narcissist. From seminary to his time in Honeycutt's office, to SBTS. And likely, on to Hell.

[@frankboydstun1109]

I suspected as much when I saw he endorsed the Holman Christian Standard Bible. You can look up the history Farstad/Blum in that matter. My personal study of the translation of the Greek word, 'Christos' in the book of Acts convinced me the translators had this elitist higher criticism spirit of telling what you what they think it means instead of telling you what it says. Same heresy my father fought in the 60s. A lot of people these days turning out to be wolves in sheep's clothing. I guess in all the furor over the Covid19 fiasco, this was supposed to slip on by un-noticed. Sorry for the harsh words, but Mohler was supposed to be a different person than this when he took the job. May Jehovah have mercy upon us, arise, plead his own cause, and glorify his own great name!

[@TheJohnh24]

Yes, sometimes it's the pride with the "job"...simply the Word of God does not do it anymore...they are selling out the faith on which we stand, the Body of Christ stands!

[@dudleywalden5493]

It's terrible, but it is our fault as SBC members. We just trust our leaders and write our checks. It is infecting my church too now that our pastor has left. I fear an FBC Naples repeat, but hope I'm wrong.

[@ewtcnews]

We are interested in learning more. Please email us.

[@TheJohnh24]

Have a good retreat at the beach and DO something...!

[@jonnyappleseed1234]

Foolishness.

[@jameslambert960]

This doesn't show a bias of mind. This is ridicoulous. This does display a complete lack of understanding from Fuller.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying for damage control. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@jackuber7358]

The truly disgusting element for me is this dissembling trickery of waving some signed document as a sign of fealty to Biblical truth by someone who clearly rejects Biblical truth! When do you trust the words of liars? Never!

[@marcosilva4597]

Since when does “conservative” require that we never interact with other positions? This smacks of hardline, circle-the-wagons fundamentalism, rather than genuine orthodoxy.

[@fanbrux]

With all due respect, non-disclosure agreements smacks of corporate America and not the Spirit of Christianity (1Corinthians 6). That right there is garbage.

[@marcosilva4597]

@@fanbrux I appreciate your reply. I'm not really prepared to comment on the wisdom (or possible lack thereof) of an NDA. But my guess is that orgs like SBTS use them to try to prevent folks from spouting nonsense like this. See this thread for relevant and exceptionally helpful thoughts on the content of Fuller’s accusations against Hernández: twitter.com/lukestamps/status/1262718953878667264?s=19

[@michaeldirrim2361]

Interacting with other positions is not the same as granting them validity. If someone repeatedly claims that the author of Job contradicts other authors in Scripture, why would you hire him to teach O.T. at a SBC seminary? If he wants to claim The Satan of Job is different than The Satan in other books of the Bible and instructs students to take this same position, why would you want him to teach O.T. at a SBC Seminary? Interact with these ideas, yes. Hire him to train pastors to believe the same, no.

[@fanbrux]

@@marcosilva4597: Dr. Fuller was a professor of mine at Southern, and I never knew him to be anything but a man of God. He could be totally lying, but the fact that he chose not to sign the NDA and has been willing to do the hard thing such as naming names (which Mohler did back in the day, as well) shows that he is actually willing to hold the seminary accountable (which the church is supposed to do). Moreover, if Dr. Fuller was the lone voice decrying the drift in our seminaries, I could understand. Yet, he is joining an ever-increasing chorus of voices stating that there are problems. Normally, where there is smoke, there's a fire nearby.

[@jamescook5617]

@@fanbrux in my experience with business, the use of an NDA with an exiting employee means they are firing the employee for a reason which is not defensible in public. Usually, the defense which cannot be made would expose the business' brand as fake. For example, if you are a Christian business which treats its employees like disposable peons, well, that's not very Christlike (even if it is "just business" and "not personal" ). I think you're on point here.

[@jacobriggs6808]

As a Southern grad and applicant to the DEdMin, I found the interview by Dr Hamilton to be satisfactory.

[@matthewroy2032]

Seems quite unreasonable to make such a bad image of an institution that is not resembling the liberal picture painted. Yes, we should never settle for anything but the truth but last time I check we are all sinners who cannot live by or perceive truth perfectly. I can’t believe that this kind of name dropping was somehow thought a good idea by whoever put this together. Yes, we are to warn against false teaching, but don’t title the video this way. Good job to Dr. Fuller and whoever was interviewing to “standing up for what they believe.” Frankly I think this was an immature way to handle the situation, and an unnecessary PSA to all of KZbin to watch.

[@Andreybulanov]

You guys are either deeply misinformed or willfully lying about brothers in Christ. either way this video is wrong on so many levels.

[@010Bsanders]

I read the sbl paper, he's not lying.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

It's funny I haven't seen any actual arguments about the actual documents in question yet. Just "You're lying" and "we said so."

[@TheJohnh24]

"The Brothers" in Christ!

[@kevinacres1699]

89 neh sayers. Hmmm conscience must be killing you

[@noelmuscutt2135]

I have completely lost respect for Dr. Fuller, one of my old professors. There are so many ways that he is clearly being deceptive in this interview. One could chalk it up to ignorance in scholarship or just limited ability to understand theology and OT scholarship, but this is hardly the case with Fuller. I was open-minded to hear him out until he said that SBL was a "liberal bunch." SBL has all kinds in it, from ultra-conservative to quite liberal as well. Dr. Fuller is lying when he says that this group is outright liberal. Secondly, it's a stretch to call someone a liberal because they interpret a segment of wisdom literature as presenting mythology. He says that mythology is "by definition error." This isn't true. Mythology can be employed to present truths. In this particular section of Job, though I would disagree with Hernandez, it would not be outside the realm of orthodoxy to assert the possibility that Job could be referring to a mythological character of "Death" to present the truth of Bildad's statement. This, in no way, undermines plenary verbal inspiration. But, also, the audacity of Fuller to let the interviewer (perhaps in ignorance) to then say that Southern helps to promote the view that "Job, in some sense, is mythological" is to aid the interviewer in promoting an lie for which they have established no basis. Furthermore, I'd like to know how Hernandez' statement that "you don't have to believe that the Bible teaches that death is a real person. . ." translates to Fuller saying that Hernandez actually does believe that death is a "real being, a real entity." Is there something seriously wrong with Fuller's cognitive faculties or is he just being deceptive? Either way, his statement is a lie. Not only that, but Fuller should know better, that "Satan" in Hebrew is a word that means "adversary." He taught Hebrew! Furthermore, in Job, "satan" is preceded by the definite article, "the!" So, though names will often take the definite article in Hebrew, if you translated this completely literally, it actually would be translated "the satan." It's up to the translator to decide whether it's referring to a proper name or to "the adversary." Fuller knows this!!! It's beyond the scope of possibility that he doesn't! You ask any Hebrew scholar this and they will tell you. I am pretty sure that even Fuller would tell you this if you asked him this long before this issue arose. How dare he say that it isn't acceptable to translate (lit.) "the satan" as "the satan?" The quote from the dissertation saying that, perhaps Job's greatest contribution is to the criticism of the traditional wisdom of Proverbs, etc. . . Well, this is exactly what Job's book does! It provides the wider counsel of God. Fuller says that Hernandez is saying that some parts of the Bible contradict other parts. Not at all! That would be like saying that Jesus is a liberal because his "but I say unto you"'s contradict the Torah's lex talionis. In fact, Job's wisdom "criticizes" -- through Job's lived experience -- the generalized sense of Proverbs' wisdom by demonstrating that it's not always the case that the godly are blessed and the wicked suffer. This is what is being said by Hernandez. Again, a blatant misrepresentation by both Fuller and the interviewer. What a mess Dr. Fuller has turned out to be. I am shocked. Just shocked. I am also shocked that he can't see the evil and sad irony in his treachery against Mohler who dismissed the very liberal faculty when he became president, that he himself hired Russ Fuller, that it was Mohler who used the Abstract of Principles to dismiss all of the liberal faculty, and that he has led the greatest conservative seminary resurgence in history. Well, he may not see the irony but he's a fool to not seriously take all of this into account. I feel awful to see one of my former professor's come to this but I am convinced that the man is telling lies (either wittingly or unwittingly) to advance a Satanic attack against Dr. Mohler and Southern Seminary. I guess that this is what happens in spiritual warfare and it should be expected. Still, it always hurts when it's family.

[@TravisGilbertRBC]

I read your reply with great interest, and thought it provided a needed counter perspective from someone who studied under Dr. Fuller. Then I read your final paragraph. I'll be charitable and assume your use of 1 John 2:19 doesn't indicate that you think Dr. Fuller is an unbeliever because of this. Still, it seems a bit too much.

[@noelmuscutt2135]

@@TravisGilbertRBC Travis. Thank you for what you wrote. You are correct. It is too harsh and also pulled form context so I will remove that portion. I was so outraged by this interview that I wrote it in the heat of the moment. Nevertheless, I am astonished that Dr. Fuller could lack so much integrity (either academic or moral). It comes as a shock. Thanks for your wisdom and seeking of clarity.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

This isn’t a question of Dr. Fuller vs. Dr. Hernandez. It’s Dr. Hernandez’s own writings vs what he’s now saying for damage control. twitter.com/worldviewconvos/status/1263180160381128704?s=20

[@TheJohnh24]

Do you know the higher criticism publishing house Mohr/Siebeck where one of H.'s writings appeared? Do you know at least one NT or OT Prof from Princeton, Hernandez' Alma Mater? Unfortunately, you don't know (much) about higher criticism! All your points you bring up have to be seen in the higher criticism context (like Dr. Fuller interprets it) and not like you want to see it! H. would have left Princeton and not pursue SBL or Mohr/Siebeck, if he rejected higher criticism and he does not! HIS WRITINGS SHOW IT VERY CLEARLY! (We had the problem in Germany with Bultmann, when he was preaching in Marburg the people in the pew thought he gave an excellent message). Dr. Fuller said that he was the only one voting against...but please don't degrade with your comments as if Dr. Fuller is not praying for every teacher at Southern to repent and discern better... Don't let me start with Mohler...

[@nancyallen7461]

Before we use labels on other people, let's get our facts straight. Whoever started this malicious gossip to put down the good work God has done thru the leadership of Southern seminary will be pursued to judgment by God Himself. Why make insidious remarks when we can turn to God for intervention to expose the truth? Why drag people off to believe that Southern has gone 'liberal'? Let's not poison the well. God is the ultimate Judge. Let us search our hearts & see where our loyalty lies. Glory to God alone!

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

Did you read his dissertation or paper in which he advocates that the Job contradicts proverbs and that the author of Job believed in mythology and communicated that belief to his audience? It's all there.

[@TheJohnh24]

Wait another year...and have a look at the new NT Prof! Wolves in sheep clothing, my brother!

[@TheJohnh24]

Sorry, my sister!

[@scottcamp9266]

Al made a good decision. This guy needs to teach at Bob Jones😂

[@deanellis9463]

I couldn’t disagree more. You’re dead wrong. Al, who I used to think the world of, has been steadily sliding to the left for years. So sad…

[@J0HN_3_16]

The links to documents at the Enemies Within the Church website won't load.