Dr K Explains His Side Of The Dr Mike Debate

Last night on Destiny ft. Dr K
Destiny channel ► / destiny
Bestiny channel ► / bestiny
Twitter ► / theomniliberal
DGG ►www.destiny.gg/bigscreen
#Destiny
#Politics
#Debate

[@LastNightDestiny]

Dr K Gets Emotional Trying To Help Destiny ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZPRaYiGj7V6b80si=AU19KSashJqsdqgy Dr Mike Debates Dr K On Eastern Medicine ►kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYrKkqqljNWYZ5osi=hsLJKvNi_agT8Xzd

[@Mermayydman]

Vegan gains is somewhere seething eating carrots

[@maxluong2]

he dosnt like dr k?

[@Calirado786]

@@maxluong2nope

[@coreyander286]

For a stronger anti-Dr.-K champion, search for Decoding the Gurus' take on him.

[@tomlaw8821]

tbf he would probably be doing that anyways

[@Mermayydman]

@@tomlaw8821 You aren't wrong 🤣🤣🤣

[@ciennaquidd6486]

"ive got to go in about 20 minutes in the top end" 30 min video awaits 😂

[@instantsus_]

he says this to escape if it gets too bad for him

[@troyl44]

​@@instantsus_​ do you actually think this?

[@valleydevv5593]

@@instantsus_it seemed more like dr k wanted some down time before his next thing, but he was really enjoying his conversation with Destiny. Also I’m sure he felt a little obligation to talk because before this clip starts destiny talks about how he doesn’t like asking things from people and wasting their time. Destiny reiterates it by reminding dr k of the time limit he set for himself

[@ONETimothy2.12-14]

That's what he meant by "the top end"

[@hanz1491]

It’s so cute that Destiny makes an effort to adjust how he communicates in the beginning. That’s growth.

[@MrSenserus]

So you’re saying that just because he has a woman’s name he should fix how he communicates??

[@ONETimothy2.12-14]

​@MrSenserus no that's only if you're actually a woman

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

yeah talking differently to different people is such amazing growth. wow no one else does that. only the genius Destiny has the social intelligence to adjust his speech. amazing.

[@magnushmann]

@@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je That's not the point. It's directly related to the conversation preceding this interaction.

[@DTOgabe]

⁠​⁠@@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2jegotta watch last video

[@UkiyoIkou]

Didnt realized DRk was a jjk fan. RCT is pretty advanced

[@sarahw4819]

How can anyone dislike this guy?

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

he promotes ayurveda (pseudo science) and religion (false).

[@sarahw4819]

@@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je Except he is honest about it’s short comings. Is it crazy to suggest looking into spiritual traditions for mental health treatment when the best Western medicine can do is say take this SSRI?

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

@@sarahw4819 Spiritual traditions don't work. If alternative medicine worked, it would be called medicine. And western medicine does way more than give SSRIs. I guess you're a conspiracy theorist who thinks evil corporations run the world. I thought Destiny fans were pro establishment.

[@bigboy2217]

@@sarahw4819 the west has a lot more robust answers to mental illness but people don’t listen to the non-pill advice most the time.

[@RS-fy9hb]

They're all brainwashed and deeply disturbed, there's like 3 or 4 ppl commenting on every comment thread they can find about how much they dislike this guy. I've got people I hate too, but I'd never be caught dead invading their videos intentionally just to mention how miserable their life is, that they spend hours a day writing dumb comments, just to justify their existence online.

[@greerjones9472]

Dr. K haters waking up from their cryopods to give the most obtuse takes on the matter imaginable.

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

Nah Dr k is just like fuentes, says non controversial shit like meditation to obfuscate his more extreme claims, he did it with dr Mike to

[@sarahw4819]

@@ultimatedespairgamer6722 what are his more extreme claims?

[@tony16991]

​@@ultimatedespairgamer6722I keep hearing that. But what exactly are his extreme takes? For eg Fuentes's extreme take is turning US to a white nationalist state where minorities can't occupy bureaucratic positions. Give me an analogy for that for Dr K

[@NRRC97]

@@ultimatedespairgamer6722 I'm aslo curious about those more extreme takes, like genuinely, so far the only controversy i've heard of him was the whole reckful and mrgirl thing, and we know how that ended it, other than that, he seems pretty chill

[@0doublezero0]

He was doing pseudo-therapy and it was far worse in the past. He even did it during this Destiny convo as well, he just hid it a lot better.

[@aguspuig6615]

11:30 lmao DrK is the Destiny of the medicine world

[@saijeetdogra9360]

Drk is literally the dark souls of medicine

[@Jobe-13]

I thought the whole 2 hour conversation was great and wholesome. And I got from it that Destiny is probably mildly autistic and actually cares a lot about other people around him. Which is pretty sweet. He actually does care.

[@user-pk3eo6pq6m]

brings fancam "hes a little autistic

[@kristianbasile7141]

Yeah the guy who has no issue justifying the massacre of teens cares about other people. No he's emotionally stunted and autistic, which is why he doesn't address the morality of the issue.

[@RetreatSequel]

​@@user-pk3eo6pq6m Yup infantilizing adults with their armchair psychology degrees 🤮

[@theyfukenwmesubliminally]

​@@RetreatSequel this is not infantalizing theres clearly smth off/different about him, maybe its not really autism but some traits are reminiscent of it. Autism and some other personality disorders traits also have some overlap as well. Destiny audience is allegic to having sympathy and compassion in general bc yall gotta be anti woke, we get that good for you but do you have to be so stereotypical man, like yall people are always so hurr durr macho it always reminds me of a 14 year old boys temperament lol.

[@itoo4884]

He definitely neurodivergent but we can't definitively say what he has

[@MoisesZTech]

Just to clarify - it’s not Dr. Mike Israerel

[@Real_extra_1]

Dr KZbin MD, not Dr KZbin gains

[@MoisesZTech]

@@Real_extra_1 i wish destiny interviewed him or debated him

[@dempfer9037]

israetel but yeah just making sure you know mofucka ain’t in the idf i don’t wanna ruin his blossoming career and shit

[@hawgprint]

i was hoping

[@kristianbasile7141]

This was very enlightening. Very good conversation.

[@MiKey-cj2fo]

I need to know what Dr. K thinks about Choso's Reverse Curse Technique and if it's enough to withstand Sakuna's flames, also would be interested in hearing how Todo is able to go against Sukuna considering his whole arm is gone, does he have a better RCT than Choso???

[@Rocinante808]

RCT = reverse Curse technique cute bt ya took too long a walk

[@Saintjackoftrades]

Sukuna*

[@saijeetdogra9360]

*suck

[@jameverywhere]

hey man, commenting for the algo. absolutely love when you talk to Dr K and look forward to seeing you collab with him more!

[@Keyh]

This talk was amazing. More please!

[@justinarmijo5958]

I hate myself for even reading the chat, but shoutout to frosch30 for btfo jstlk, and watching him dodge the question because he knew he had no answer.

[@jafetguzman5012]

my friend wants time stamp

[@saijeetdogra9360]

The friend is me, i demand the temporal stamp

[@MemoContrerasf]

Pretty cool perspective, hadnt thought on many things Dr K said

[@Khazzz]

I know this is hyperbolic to say and I know there are obviously exceptions in reality - but whether it be in this comment section or elsewhere, I never see criticism of Dr. K where the person actually understands what he is saying and what he actually believes.

[@WolvesHart79]

...talking about out of body experiences as if they are real tells us everything we need to know.

[@user-ge2vw4qo1t]

@@WolvesHart79It's a real mental experience people have unless you boutta say shit in people's minds are fake

[@nanahiiragi723]

Is that what he believes? Nobody would disagree with that. Sounds more like he actually believes consciousness can leave your brain 5:00

[@eicamer7069]

He was pretty clear, but I’ll try to clarify. Your brain makes you feel like you are behind your eyes and in front of the back of your head. You can stimulate parts of your brain to make you feel like you are somewhere else in reference to your body. That’s all he’s saying.

[@nanahiiragi723]

@@eicamer7069 "Every moment of our existence, our consciousness exists within our body, because that's where it is all the time, until you have an out of body experience" I'm referring to this statement, specifically. It is absolutely not clear that he means this is merely a perception, not reality. He is constantly making statements like this, at best you can say they are extremely misleading kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXndgJiafdKSoa8si=BEZo9yxRgaPuh7dt&t=5937 "There are certain meditations you can do to recall your past lives" kzbin.info/www/bejne/r6GpnYqnqbdmirssi=QLInMHJnf0p6W0uU&t=284 "You can have an 'I' that is outside the physical location of your body" kzbin.info/www/bejne/eXndgJiafdKSoa8 "Just because the brain is a physical ripple of experience, doesn't mean that the brain is the only thing that exists"

[@Stratocaster42]

I get Dr K. Meditation is unbelievably powerful. I was incredibly sceptical of it when starting it many years ago, but the effects were more impactful that any medication I ever took. I don't do it much anymore but I should because it was so helpful.

[@lucyarchangel365]

shame it took me taking psychedelics to see the value of meditation. everyone should try it!

[@brentantheunis2456]

Really interesting conversation. Really like it when Destiny talks to someone who actually knows what he is talking about

[@jeffery8168]

KZbin's finest duo, 2 great conversationalists

[@DuchessJabba]

So many weird comments here…

[@hawgprint]

why the fuck is there always this type of comment on youtube videos. are you that narcissistic that you think everybody needs to perform and make a comment that you find funny or valid? why must the comment section be a stage? theyre just commenting what they want and its not even that weird. youre the only weird one here

[@Apocobat]

When i was in uni for engineering, my third year was the most academically fucked shit, but every day i would close my eyes for 10 minutes and just sit with my thoughts, wouldn’t actively try to do anything. I feel pretty strongly that it helped significantly manage my stress at that time, kind of helped my brain put all the things that were happening together in a way that made them more handleable. Wasnt some silver bullet matrix shit but it absolutely made a difference.

[@uNVme130]

This duo is powerful

[@drunkpanda_1]

Always love the talks with Dr k and just other people that are very knowledgeable in their fields. Dr K is really good at articulating many points that even when someone hates on it, it looks more like a predisposed belief and closed mindedness. Great talk!

[@SnowCMK]

So im getting from atleast the first half, Dr. K is saying that its more effective for you to make a change in yourself if you spend that time in yourself and not into something external even if its supposed to benefit you. Does that seem like a proper analysis? Not really diving into the outer body experiences, but thats the message that stuck out to me from what hes saying.

[@Fluiddruid4k]

Dr.k on bridges?

[@user-jk3kr4sl1b]

No love for ice cream sandwiches, yo?

[@chembabe8264]

Would love to hear this convo revisited. I'm so interested. I just started doing yoga because I felt I was getting nowhere with my body and it will give me a set time to be with my mind. 🤷‍♀️

[@arimorrison7816]

I liked this talk. I wonder if there could be an element of p-hacking with the chi argument at the end. While true that people who believed in chi were lead to discover practices that are effective, it can also be the case that it lead them to many conclusions and practices that were not true/good. In the west we have selected the few that seem to work, but that’s not necessarily evidence that the underlying principal of chi is useful. Could have just gotten lucky. Please comment below if you disagree or think I’m missing something - I think this is an interesting discussion

[@Itsnotthatserioustbh]

Chi is just the electrical energy in your body bruh... A lot of these arguments happen because of language. A Rabbi, a guru, and a physicist could spend 10 years arguing just to realize they were all saying the same shit the whole time

[@xokirei]

what is even the lower chat lol

[@kcusuck5781]

Isnt it dr ks chat?

[@Opno]

Kind of annoying to me that August cut this out of the main channel video

[@sunset2073]

I love Destiny

[@famalam943]

Now we need Vivek for on the show for the double Indian

[@aceking1221]

Psychology and psychiatry is totally different from other branches of medicine as well. We know how most of the body works. But the brain, we are still just scratching the surface.

[@juliam530]

jstlk typing up a storm in dgg chat for this segment of the convo and this segment alone was cringe as fuck

[@instantsus_]

trueeeee

[@johnsonjunior547]

The dude is cringe af to begin with. Just look at his pfp and that'll tell you enough

[@ElectricR0MEO]

Two pieces of bread…and butter?

[@derrekgillespie413]

I hope Destiny has followed up with Dr K to set up that future conversation and that it isn't just a nebulous "we should talk in the future"

[@aguspuig6615]

22:30 and then when you complain about the sandwich the doctor grows 1 foot taller so he can look down on you and scoffs

[@d1odream]

Having an "outer body experience" is not evidence that your consciousness is not tied to your body. Your body-tied consciousness could just be imagining an experience where you are viewing yourself in the third person. I have done this actively. This could be just imagination or hallucination.

[@AyoBurbs]

Not a convincing counter point. You can’t give a definitive no for the opposing side and then give a maybe for your argument. From my perspective if gives me the sense that you actually haven’t given the opposing side a substantial enough consideration. How do you know for certain the images within your imagination are actually forming within your brain and not in another location that your brain is simply an intricate tether.

[@d1odream]

@@AyoBurbswhat I’m saying is that I’ve definitely used my imagination to have an outer body experience because I’m just imagining myself in third person given the knowledge I️ know about what I️ look like and my surroundings. I’m not making a definitive claim that outer body experiences don’t exist or that consciousness doesn’t exist outside of the body. I’m saying all the evidence that we do have that is strong in pointing towards your consciousness is in the brain and the “evidence” or existence of outer body experiences isn’t sufficient to conclude consciousness exists outside the body. Hope that cleared it up for you. Do you disagree with anything?

[@AyoBurbs]

@@d1odream yes, what you’re saying is not something I disagree with. What I get the sense of, is that you haven’t had an out of body experience yourself. Your lucid imagination that you are in full control of, is nothing like an out of body experience. So I mostly take issue with the comparison. And I guess what I’d ask is, what evidence would you personally need to see in order to consider the possibility that outside body experiences are real?

[@d1odream]

@@AyoBurbs I’m not sure what evidence would convince me that the mind is immaterial. I️ can accept that outside body experiences exist, like I️ would imagine me having one through imagination, dream, or hallucination is possible and have potentially happened. The conclusion from that experience is what I️ don’t accept: therefore the mind is outside the body. I️ don’t see how that necessarily follows. Or maybe there’s a definition of out of body experience I’m not familiar with. What do you think? To the proposition: the mind is (also) immaterial. -I’m not exactly sure what evidence could convince me of such. Usually things that are investigated through the scientific method and are corroborated by the scientific academia world is enough to convince me. But, I’m not aware of any instance of the scientific method investigating immaterial things and I️ usually base my truth claims of what exists based off science, tautologies, and/or sound syllogisms. Are you aware of any such evidence for this proposition? If anything, what we do know from science is that your mind IS your brain, and even the slightest change or damage to your brain can alter your mind state. Do you disagree?

[@saijeetdogra9360]

A dualist and a mechanist walk into a bar. The mechanist says he doesn't believe the mind is not from material neuroanatomy. The dualist says he has material that proves it And then they kissed, the end.

[@lleeyyllaa30482]

"People have a problem ontologically with understanding that like... humans aren't real." "Cool. Thank you very much for this conversashion, i feel like we are at a good stopping point." XD

[@peach_of_justus]

MiCBT was the main thing that helped my Bi polar

[@321erup123]

I'm not going to go too hard on Dr. K because this is not the full discussion they need to have. One thing I really want them to cover is what actually is different in an ayurvedic visit versus a western medicine visit. I know doctors and they would all say that they adjust for the patient.

[@Addi_the_Hun]

Anyone else getting sting theory vibes?

[@coloneljlol]

destiny should read the Wikipedia page on ayurveda

[@LoyaltL]

LMAO actually true

[@synchronium24]

What's odd is that in Destiny's conversation about Ayurveda with NotSoErudite, he was the one making the Wikipedia argument (Ayurveda) is pseudoscience. Now he's taking her position in his convo with Dan (and Dr. K).

[@Frank7489]

Destiny - “mmhmm”

[@Teajonmustard]

Dr K just seems so ahead of our times

[@aguspuig6615]

DrK in Jordan Petersons podcast would be pretty cool

[@DelgaDude]

I doubt they would disagree on too much since Dr. K is not gonna talk politics.

[@instantsus_]

lmao that sounds awful.

[@johnd1047]

That would be super interesting

[@Armathlive]

Both psych guys but jordan too far gone

[@kev1257ful]

an unstoppable force meets an immovable object

[@Lee-bt2cy]

I feel like holistic medicine works from a power of suggestion perspective? With regards to mental health,I think that it can have it's place in creating positive effects. Much the same way as does a placebo in a blind test. You can sort of trick your mind into better states of being. But I wouldn't go as far as to draw any conclusions with regards them being a cure for any medical condition of the mind? It is a fascinating subject though. I think it's a lot less harmful than the after or side effects of a lot of the prescribed anti-depressants western medicine doles out to patients. But that's only because you aren't actually taking any kind of medicinal steps to look for actual tangible results. You're just trying to trick your brain into looking for short term upticks in positive outcomes?

[@K0sm1cKid]

There are holistic medicines that legitimately accomplish what they intend to accomplish, but there are also holistic medications that don't or are actually harmful. Dr. K has used the example of auyervedic doctors in the past functionally diagnosing diabetes by having the patient pee by an ant hill, because the ants will act differently. That's actually true. A holistic medicine I can cite first hand is kava root, from the pacific islands. It acts similarly to Valium on the mind, and holistic doctors from that region have used it similarly throughout history to how doctors might use Valium. Kava is also used as a sort of alternative to alcohol, so it can be used for either "medical" or recreational purposes. But it does do something, it's not purely a placebo.

[@johnd1047]

Over half of these comments thus far have been so bonkers😂People….you assume good faith unless given evidence to assume otherwise. Dr. K so obviously has good intentions, and communicates so thoroughly and effectively, you’d have to be ignoring most the conversation to not pick up on it. Making the exact same mistake you assume of him! He’s asking questions and presenting his experience with eastern medicine, and because you haven’t experienced it, his takes are invalid….but yours are? The one who’s likely never read a sentence about eastern medicine?😂 Dr. k very clearly explained the problems with Ayurveda, and expressed his preference for allopathic medicine, but still, how a smart and wise person should, he’s OPEN to them being right about some things. Which should all be, unless you’d like to stop ALL pharmaceutical research and development?!?!?😂😂insanity.

[@RuneFoot]

Your pretty ignorant and un educated

[@Dismuth]

It's an alternative medicine. It's harmful to the patients to suggest they should seek something outside of established western medicine. Especially because it's so affective on people. I don't think anyone has any problem with researching alternative medicine, but he's personally advocating for it. It's a totally different thing.

[@DanielCollins419]

Amen , Dr K seems like a great guy

[@Dismuth]

schizo

[@johnd1047]

@@Dismuth hey daddy😍♥️

[@martintettamanti3957]

Mr Bonnell, I'm sorry to say, you think you are much better than you really are. You can't wish yourself as an influential voice

[@Tellezeus78]

I’ll say it again for Dan; IT’S ALL BULLSHIT

[@narutofan4545]

Dr k is right

[@WolvesHart79]

The second he uncritically talked about out of body experiences and I'm done...pseudo science silliness doesn't have a place in modern medicine.

[@TheKaiBear]

Not the strongest of intros...

[@coreyander286]

Destiny should talk to the Decoding the Gurus guys about Dr. K.

[@hellsjamfleas]

They are going to be super critical of him. He is exactly the type of guru they want to criticise. Unlike Destiny who aesthetically comes across like a guru but actually was very grounded and non preachy.

[@mr-h6x]

Dr. K explaining his appreciation for ayervader is much more reasonable here than how he expressed it in his debate with Dr. Mike. I would love to debate him on his final point about when it is tested it becomes a part of western medicine. I don't quite understand his issue with that.

[@ViljoVihannes]

The issue is that western medicine will adapt and formalize treatment mechanisms discovered by eastern medicine, and once that happens, that treatment then becomes western medicine. As a result, even though in practice eastern medicine has managed to arrive at useful treatments, all of the useful ones have been formalized in western medicine, and thus defined strictly as western. Therefore, eastern medicine only becomes defined by treatments that aren't effective, even though it has contributed a lot. So the issue is the asymmetrical and lopsided way of evaluating the success of eastern medicine.

[@instantsus_]

@@ViljoVihannes western medicine finds the actual reason for the benefits. which is way more important, once you find out what’s actually bringing in the benefits you can isolate and remove the bad stuff from it. ofc eastern medicine is going to get something’s right, they sticking up for the stuff that doesn’t work is what’s giving them bad rep

[@mr-h6x]

@ViljoVihannes I still don't really see the problem. Clearly western medicine is open to considering practices from other cultures or traditions as long as those things seem to have a correlation with success worth investigating and then after testing seem to pass the scrutiny of the western process. The dilineation between eastern Ave western isn't that important to me. It's not like the east and west exist in mutually exclusive bubbles. Certain practices are adopted in eastern culture from western sources and the integrated as well. I feel like when this argument is made, what's being laundered in (intentional or not) is that there's an issue with western medicine or the approach. And that what's actually being defended is not merely certain practices from eastern medicine that have been shown to have utility, but rather the axioms or process of eastern medicine. But it's not clear what exactly he's referring to in the process of eastern medicine that we are missing that we should be including in our system? Plenty of correct positions arrise out of invalid or flawed processes or logic. While the conclusions themselves might be correct, it would actually be bad to use that to justify the poor logic that got them there

[@RS-fy9hb]

What I've always understood when referring to the thing about eastern medicine and its approach that is left out of the western approach, is the key to shortcutting the time it takes to research and isolate the working parts of eastern medicine. Since their approaches to developing medicine was so different, I'd say it's reasonable that just researching the conclusions that eastern medicine came to is incredibly inefficient, so focusing on what made the eastern medicine reach their correct conclusions would probably prove a whole lot more efficient, and this was cemented in my head with the sandwich example he came up with at the end here. Although I first understood, or got this from his convo with Dr Mike. The process that western medicine uses to isolate what works and what doesn't is very slow, and is always generalised. So creating a fusion as a temporary fix while the research is made is a good compromise, so long as the threshold for danger isn't very bad, so implementing mindfulness practices and mixing that with what Dr K has already done would be more effective, since what he's doing is already based on data that suggests positive outcomes. At least, that's my 2 cents. That'd be the area that western medicine is being criticised for. It's too thorough and relies on several iterations to get it right, so it's time consuming and complicated.

[@mr-h6x]

@RS-fy9hb Does western medicine not already do that? Western medicine exists in democratic countries with a rich tradition in studying and documenting and experimentation. People in the west are fairly free to try all manner of risky stuff. And they do. Our sociologists, biochemists, psychologists, medical scientists, anthropologists study all manner of phenomenon. We've likely got more knowledge from the east that we study in the West than they do with us. Dr. K is in the West speaking to his eastern ideas. Working in the West. Our sociologists study ever manner of cultural tradition and practice. Our psychologists explore every manner of psychological phenomenon, as do the neuroscientists study the brain, and our chemists and biomedical engineers test and extract every manner of drug. I think we already do all these things. We are open more than any society in the history of mankind and the results people now take for granted. Western medicine, in a more formal sense, in the institutional sense is CHOSEN by free people because they trust it and it works. And then you've got people like Robert Kennedy Jr or Alpha Brain or all meat diets

[@sqronce]

I'm 3 minutes in and I'm already furious. Dr Mike had a problem with him and stuff he has said; that was a through-line for the whole conversation and it was obvious that Dr Mike had seen some of the more extreme and unethical things Dr K had said outside of his watered down responses in the conversation. And then he immediately does the thing where he falls back on the meditation example like he did a billion times in that conversation. Citing the one thing that worked doesn't justify the other shit. The "doshas can predict covid outcomes" shit.

[@genshishio9316]

I also watched that conversation and I didn’t get that from Dr Mike. The conversation also went far beyond just “meditation worked” imo. But I admit that I’m pretty primed to like Dr K and haven’t seen a lot of bad takes or stupid things he might have said. Does Dr K regularly say incorrect things? What’s the bullshit to good shit ratio in your opinion? And lastly, can you point me to videos or conversations of him saying stupid, incorrect and or purposely misleading things? I’m always down to slander people if they are actually doing wrong.

[@K0sm1cKid]

Meditation isn't the only alternative medicine that works. That's just the easiest example to use because it's become the most prevalent in the world of western medicine.

[@sqronce]

@@genshishio9316 Sorry, I was going to get you some references, but then I accidentally got involved in a twitter thread where everyone who was @'ing Ludwig was also @'ing me, so I've spent the past couple days just dealing with notifications there. And now it's the evening before my EMDR therapy session, which then leaves me pretty non-functional for a few days, so I'm not going to leave myself feeling like I have this task to do. I know Chud Logic had a recent video (might have been on his second channel, Chud Noir) where he watched the Dr Mike convo and he dug up his old info where he had some stuff from Dr K carrying too much water for non-evidence-based medicine. I know he said that someone on the Reddit has made him pull back his claims (which in itself is scary for a doctor) but both in the Dr Mike conversation and this conversation with Destiny he says some scary shit about his philosophy of medicine; that is, the concept that we can't afford to wait for evidence on medical practices working, and therefore he can just use his patients as guinea pigs. This kinda shit horrifies me. (Note, there are some situations where this does apply, but it tends to be where the consequences of no treatment is death. Eg, the AIDS crisis.)

[@sqronce]

@@K0sm1cKid I don't consider the distinction to be eastern vs western medicine. It is evidence-based medicine, and non-evidence-based medicine (and then some evidence-based harmful procedures that people still use as medicine.) With this paradigm, meditation is the one thing that has become evidence-based that Dr K keeps falling back on to try to smuggle in justification for a bunch of non-evidence-based medicine. Maybe that other stuff could be valid, but it requires sufficient testing to determine whether it's helpful or harmful first. (Note as I said in my reply to the other person, I'm about to be non-functional for a few days, so I won't be able to get back to any replies.)

[@TheFreezer700]

Its great and all on paper but this idea he is throwing falls miserably in healthcare as we are overburdened with people and not enough healthcare workers to help them all. If i got 150 patients a day i cannot spend 3 hours per patient to discover their own unique body and mentality mechanics. This is something that conflicts with reality despite it being a good idea.

[@Armathlive]

Psych and clinical has a big difference and spending more time in a psych setting I think would be helpful, but a dr. Comming in for 5 mins to tell you need surg barely talking to pt is not good.

[@TurntBucket]

His arguments are bad imo. As if you cannot do case studies or subjective self-reporting studies in the western system. Let's look at his example of ppl getting fat from sleep medication. How long would it take for the old eastern style to figure out that this medication makes you fat and is no good? At best, the same amount of time as in the western system (excluding the strict regulatory process, but that is not what we are discussing. Even if we implemented old eastern methods we would still force them through a lengthy and strict regulatory process). There is a good chance that they wouldn't even link the weight gain to the treatment for a much longer time using the eastern methods. Let's look at his 30% effective anti-depressant example. In the old eastern method that anti-depresant might have been skipped over as a failure because the few that took it had minimal or non-existent benefits from it. Alternatively, if the few that took it had major benefits then it might falsely get touted as the best cure ever (bogus cures are common in eastern medicine for a reason). Now consider, how the existence of side effects interacts with these types of scenarios. In the western system, we would be able to determine that it is 30% effective across the board. If there is significant variablity in individual outcomes we could then investigate the relevant factors that cause the variance. Both his starting examples only prove that the eastern system doesn't have much to offer. The one thing it does have to offer is it's lengthy history. Throughout that history of course legitimate treatments have been found. That doesn't mean the system of finding those treatments is efficient. If the current western system was implemented throughout the east from the beginning of time and nothing else was different: all the same real treaments would have been discovered, more treaments would have been discovered, and less snake oil would exist. Also, why is it called eastern medicine? The west did the same BS before scientific practices were set in place. It's a garbage way of doing things. That is why the west moved away from it.

[@NRRC97]

1. "How long would it take for the old eastern style to figure out that this medication makes you fat and is no good?" Probably the same ammount of time no matter what, bc of the drawbacks over time and needing to confirm with how many individuals this phenomenon occurs. 2. "Even if we implemented old eastern methods we would still force them through a lengthy and strict regulatory process" Yeah, that's the idea, and for the purpose of discern what's useful about ayurvedic medicine and what's woo woo. 3. "if the few that took it had major benefits then it might falsely get touted as the best cure ever" Well... no, bc again, the principles of ayurvedic medicine is to find what's the best medicine for you as an individual, with some generalization, but that generalization is more engrained in the practice of medicine rather than on the production of it. 4. "In the western system, we would be able to determine that it is 30% effective across the board. If there is significant variablity in individual outcomes we could then investigate the relevant factors that cause the variance". If you listen to what Dr. K is saying, Ayurvedic medicine could arrive to the same conclusion, just coming from a different angle. Still, although alopathic medicine have proven to be way more reliable than ayurvedic medicine, it's principles are something that might help alopathic medicine to improve in the practice of medicine, as Dr. K said in his conversation with Dr. Mike.

[@JustinSwell]

If you figure out "what makes a sandwich" maybe we will find out what a woman is.

[@kayteees]

dr. k and vivek got the same voice box

[@trogdor20X6]

I honestly still don't get what value there is in the eastern medicine thing listening to all this. The only way to make sense of it is that Indian people had access to magic in the past and we just need to rediscover it.

[@RS-fy9hb]

Lmao, It's in the approach. Simplest way to view it is that western medicine fissles out the individual in order to administer treatment for extremely specific disorders and illnesses, but that's based on averages, so you'll never get a perfect fit for medicine, but you'll have a highly tuned general approach to solving illnesses, which means you can cure a bunch of illnesses the same way for most of every population. So while it's possible to bring in the concepts of eastern medicine, which were developed by the literal opposite approach, it'd take too long to only implement known treatments until they were fully researched, and we had all the miniscule details of the practices researched. So instead, it wouldn't hurt to accelerate the learning process, and treatments of other patients by bringing in lower risk treatments that have known positive effects in early, since it's already done in mindfulness practices that is already integrated in western medicine, but is just too slow. There were like 3 separate topics about the specifics of the difference, how to integrate it and why. But I'd literally have to type a transcript of the video to explain it myself xD.

[@LoudWaffle]

So the clinical methods that we use and have scientifically verified from eastern medicine, like meditation and mindfulness, don't count? Basically just listen to the thing Destiny has repeated a few times now on the topic: nothing in eastern medicine can be valuable because once we confirm that it is valuable, we just consider it to be part of western medicine. It's a catch-22 which ontologically equates anything labelled non-western medicine with funky harmful woo-woo that doesn't work.

[@nothingnerdyNtertainment]

I can see why people don't take Dr K seriously.

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

if alternative medicine worked, it would be called medicine.

[@MemoContrerasf]

Isnt it called medicine in a shitton parts of the world?

[@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je]

@@MemoContrerasf not in civilized countries.

[@blue9host3290]

Nice qualifier ​@@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je

[@RS-fy9hb]

So, what do we call mindfulness before we researched its application? Because that was the same branch as notivational speeches before the research was done xD. The way I see it, Dr K's most important point, is that there's a lot of things we can learn to implement from eastern medicine, just like it already has, but the process needs to be accelerated, because the approach western medicine has to verifying efficacy is gonna take too long to get any results, so it won't hurt to introduce low risk methods extremely similar to those that have already been researched to have a positive outcome, in a controlled manner. You're really rather wild to be hating on Dr K this much, just because you're actually that narrow minded or just stupid.

[@lucyarchangel365]

bro posts an opinion and when pressed its jsut racism@@KissSlowlyLoveDeeply-pm2je

[@topwomble]

Destiny will forever simp for Dr K no matter what

[@maximilian7894]

out of body experience lmao

[@dawnkeyy]

I actually had one. It's a cool thing in a similar way dejavu's are. And that's about the significance I give it. I've also seen auras when I was pretty drunk and in a certain mood. Also cool, but again, just a psychological phenomenon.

[@johnd1047]

That’s a very real thing…we’re not making ANY claims about if that experience is some objective measurable reality, we’re just speaking on the experience. It’s happened forever, and we’ve even now found the specific part in your brain which triggers an out of body experience. Goofball.

[@RuneFoot]

​@@johnd1047 out of body experiences have been proven to be just hallucinations. It's been tested in hospitals.

[@RuneFoot]

​@@johnd1047you are wrong. Out of body experiences have been debunked

[@Dismuth]

@@RuneFoot Did you even read the comment? He said they happen in the brain, which isn't paranormal.

[@Biomechanic2010]

It's only because Destiny is competently invested in Fuentes' arguments he can see them for their woo, but Dr. K is way more sophisticated in his packaging. There's too much BS these premises are built on for how much Destiny let's K stack

[@alexalexis7121]

The amount of bs this guy said is amazing to me

[@jdkingsley6543]

I disagree with his take on consciousness existing in our bodies, I dont think its local at all . Id like to think consciousness as like an internet connection coming from some unknown ISP and we are the end users. When we disconnect the internet what happens to our internet connection ? It just exists in that ISP waiting to reconnect to and that is what I think and the out of body experience is. Stimulating a part of the brain to induce the experience, is like playing with ports or the network card. In this case the brain.

[@coimbralaw]

What is your educational background for you to make any assessment on this topic?

[@coreyander286]

What would make you think that versus anything else?

[@tmchannel8483]

Fun theory but seems a lot less likely than local consciousness imo (occam's razor).

[@shaun5047]

I’m not saying you’re incorrect but without any evidence suggesting why this is the case then it’s just a fun theory. If we follow the logic that consciousness is essentially a WiFi connection then the implication is that connected was made before you were even born. Whatever moment a fetus gains consciousness would be the exact moment the body connected to WiFi.

[@jdkingsley6543]

@@coreyander286 the work of Sir Roger Penrose, Dr. Staurt Hameroff and Dr Robert Lanza.

[@gskills55]

Alright so a huge problem with Dr. K's informed consent policy that everyone hopefully noticed - this is not good enough when recommending a novel treatment where the negative and positive outcomes are not fully studied. The patient is depending on the doctor. This problem is exacerbated 10-fold when you become famous on the internet for pushing that novel treatment, because now close to 100% of your patients are going to go in ready to give informed consent to the treatment, making it meaningless. The responsibility and decision to recommend the treatment obviously falls back on the doctor at this point, which was actually Destiny's orignal question anyway and which Dr. K addressed by saying that he would feel comfortable recommending that the patient eat sweet potatoes.... what? I'll just add my two cents in also that Destiny is a master at identifying bullshit like this and clearly noticed it here but continues to support Dr. K and makes a conscious choice not to push back too hard. This is becoming increasingly disappointing and confusing as this continues to happen. Knowing Destiny and his brand i predict that his platforming and letting Dr. K pander to his audience with zero pushback has an expiration date.

[@greerjones9472]

You're speaking a different language brother.

[@gskills55]

@@greerjones9472 k just move on if you can't understand it

[@Dismuth]

@@greerjones9472 self own

[@RS-fy9hb]

You're trying so hard and grasping at anything here. Jesus christ, Dr K haters are fucking fanatical about this shit. What you're saying is true, only if the boundary of the negative effects that are possible are bad enough to warrant a license to provide. That's clearly not the case, since you take about, iirc, 2 weeks of a course, and get approved without an exam to carry out this mindfulness approach to therapy. You're giving the morphine treatment to what Dr K is doing, when what he's really doing is recommending some diet, exercise, and then some specific mental gymnastics to try and better your life. Are we going to restrict normal physicians that aren't specialised doctors from promoting eating healthy, exercising and yoga or meditation if they'd like to try something new? Please go and do some self reflection. You're clearly capable of the mental gymnastics part, now you just have to prove you can do it with reality too.

[@moneygrab610]

What went unanswered? Dr. K responded to that question by essentially making clear he would only prescribe aspects of Eastern medicine that have provable benefits like a healthy diet. If the gripe is with untested Eastern methods, Dr. K stated that there is research into these practices, and, as a licensed medical professional, he is allowed to make prescriptions based on the evidence he sees, even if the research is not the clearest. He is allowed to read the research, analyze it, share his thoughts, and let that direct his practice. So long as he is not deliberately misdirecting or misrepresenting the research, he is engaging with the literature in a way that we all have the ability to. In any situation, informed consent can pose a problem. If I’m a doctor that is considered the best at my specialty, a patient is almost certainly going to place all their trust in me and my methods. To meaningfully challenge me would require at least as much knowledge and experience in the topic, which, when compared to a doctor - a professional deemed so by a rigorous processing of schooling and residency - is going to be near impossible. I could be making shit up on the fly, and my patient would be inclined to believe me as a perceived authority. Is the notion that people have no choice but to obey an influencer? People have the same tools available to look into care plans and treatments from any medical professional, and if the only inhibitor toward diligently investigating the pros and cons of certain methods is seeing the title “influencer”, these people were never going to get more informed that what their doctor told them anyway. I don’t think the recommendations of Dr. K are any worse than the recommendations of any other physician or psychiatrist, especially when they are currently as tame as they are.

[@justifano7046]

There's just something about this guy that doesn't vibe with me.

[@instantsus_]

same

[@deathstreak555555]

something off fr

[@RuneFoot]

Well, doctor k shouldn't because most of the things he says like out of body experiences being real isn't true. And has been debunked. It is in fact nothing thing more than hallucinations. Meditation has the same effect as praying to any god. Basically, everything he says about non-western medicine. Has either been debunked, or is no evidence for its efficacy. He is literally Inserting his personal beliefs into medicine.

[@Seysande]

Is it cause he’s brown?

[@instantsus_]

@@Seysande part of it

[@UkrainianHimars]

Dr Mike is a homeopathic doctor....😂 pseudoscience

[@vikspod]

Dr Mike is not a homeopathic doctor 😂

[@johnd1047]

I thought Dr. K’s chat was bad🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️so many of you are demonstrating an inability to critically engage, it makes me a little sad for you. Both Dr. k and Dr. Mike(both screen names btw) are fully licensed, fully educated, medical doctors. Neither of them have lied or peddled misinformation.

[@UkrainianHimars]

@@johnd1047 you can litteraly see his degree he claims to be a homeopath if you look it up its considered a pseudo science and also not a dr k fan the eastern stuff is also pseudo

[@RuneFoot]

​@@johnd1047 besides things like out of body experiences being real. Meditation has no more efficacy they praying to any god for health benefits. Which is slightly higher than sugar pills.

[@Dismuth]

@@johnd1047 But Dr. K advocates for an alternative medicine; Ayurveda. There's no denying that.

[@jonathancalderon6769]

Dr. K and Jordan Peterson; the kings of word salad.

[@paulogaspar8295]

how is it word salad, what he said was pretty objective and simple to understand.

[@mikeyb1335]

People say the same shit about Destiny, but It's obvious that criticism usually translates to "I don't understand their argument or what they are trying to communicate, so therefore I'm going to assume that they are dumb and stupid". If you listen to Dr. Mike's convo and this conversation here, it's pretty obvious what Dr. K is saying and what the disagreement is

[@KoopstaKlicca]

Dr. K is one of the most direct and clear speakers homie

[@instantsus_]

lmaoo true! thank you! it’s wild how people eat it up.

[@instantsus_]

@@KoopstaKliccabrother he says the most basic shit true but he says it in such a long way to dance around topics. Peterson does this too. idk how ya don’t see it

[@mariomario1462]

Dude is so desperately trying to peddle his Indian pseudoscience its borderline criminal for his misinformation

[@johnd1047]

Nothing he said was incorrect or scientifically illiterate, he’s actually demonstrating a very high level of critical thinking and open mindedness to new treatments. Check your bias, broski. I’m all for allopathic medicine, too, but we don’t have to sink to such an absurd level to make critiques.

[@mariomario1462]

@@johnd1047 no. He isnt. When he talks about stuff based in scientific research and evidence it's fine but this religious garbage he tries pushing off as history and medicine is not it. Maybe find another person to idolize so how about check your bias

[@mariomario1462]

@@johnd1047 when talking about scientifically based claims with research yes. When trying to push his garbage religious ideological and pseudoscience it Is not which is why he isnt writing peer review papers on it. Find a new person to idolize and check your bias.

[@johnd1047]

@@mariomario1462 self-liked both your comments, huh? Smelling some insecurity on ya, bub.

[@RuneFoot]

​@@johnd1047he is literally lying about out of body experiences. They have been debunked as nothing more than hallucinations.

[@trapsarentgaymcgee5202]

[@TheSuper10567]

yo what was it like getting shut down on lexs podcast for trying to blame rogan 😂🤡

[@0_oblivion_02]

Pretty early, ngl...