Dr. Matthew Johnson: Psychedelics for Treating Mental Disorders

This episode I discuss medical research on psychedelic compounds with Dr. Matthew Johnson, Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. We discuss the biology and medical clinical-trial uses of psilocybin, MDMA, ayahuasca, DMT, and LSD. Dr. Johnson teaches us what the clinical trials in his lab are revealing about the potential these compounds hold for the treatment of depression, addiction, trauma, eating disorders, ADHD, and other disorders of the mind. Dr. Johnson describes a typical psychedelic experiment in his laboratory, start to finish, including the conditions for optimal clinical outcomes. And he explains some of the potential hazards and common misconceptions and pitfalls related to psychedelic medicine. Dr. Johnson explains flashbacks, the heightened risks of certain people and age groups using psychedelics and the ever evolving legal and pharmaceutical industry landscape surrounding psychedelics. Dr. Johnson also explains how the scientific study of psychedelics is likely to set the trajectory of psychiatric medicine in the years to come. Dr. Johnson is among a small handful of researchers who have pioneered the clinical study of these powerful compounds. He has unprecedented insight into how they can be woven into other psychiatric treatments, changing ones sense of self and of reality.
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Links:
Dr. Johnson’s Website at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine - hopkinspsychedelic.org/johnson
Chris Letheby’s forthcoming book - amzn.to/3nMTaAs
Timestamps:
00:00:00 Introducing Dr. Matthew Johnson
00:02:10 Supporting Sponsors
00:06:40 ‘Psychedelics’ Defined
00:14:09 Hallucinations, Synesthesia, Altered Space-Time Perception
00:19:56 Serotonin & Dopamine
00:23:50 Ketamine & Glutamate
00:28:00 An Example Psychedelic Experiment
00:37:30 ‘Letting Go’ with Psychedelics
00:44:10 Our Mind’s Eye
00:48:00 Redefining Your Sense of Self
00:58:56 Exporting Psychedelic Learnings to Daily Life
01:04:36 Flashbacks
01:12:10 Ayahuasca, & ASMR, Kundalini Breathing
01:15:54 MDMA, DMT
01:26:00 Dangers of Psychedelics, Bad Trips, Long-Lasting Psychosis
01:38:15 Micro-Dosing
01:56:45 Risks for Kids, Adolescents & Teenagers; Future Clinical Trials
02:03:40 Legal Status: Decriminalization vs. Legalization vs. Regulation
02:18:35 Psychedelics for Treating Concussion & Traumatic Brain Injury
02:27:45 Shifting Trends in Psychedelic Research, Academic Culture
02:44:23 Participating in a Clinical Trial, Online Survey Studies, Breathwork
02:50:38 Conclusions, Subscribing & Supporting the HLP, Supplements
Please note that The Huberman Lab Podcast is distinct from Dr. Huberman's teaching and research roles at Stanford University School of Medicine. The information provided in this show is not medical advice, nor should it be taken or applied as a replacement for medical advice. The Huberman Lab Podcast, its employees, guests and affiliates assume no liability for the application of the information discussed.
Title Card Photo Credit: Mike Blabac - www.blabacphoto.com

[@lexfridman]

Amazing conversation! Two world-class scientists. Two world-class beards.

[@DataRostiahvili]

Beards ))

[@wardragon670]

Lex you’re the man, I love your relationship with this amazing fella here!

[@irorook370]

Look who it is

[@loganferti278]

Why don't you write a cringey song about Huberman as well? Hahaha

[@chipotlemexican]

Grow a beard Lex!

[@mattgreene17]

Mr. Huberman, I would absolutely love to see a video on alzheimer's /dementia prevention and treatment. Please thumbs up if you agree.

[@greentea6394]

Yes....

[@rysteph51008]

That would be great!

[@john_hourihan]

Paul Stamets interview! (The mycologist whose been studying Lion's Mane mushrooms for their benefits to prevent and reduce the impact of alzheimer's disease, among other degenerative neurological diseases. He's been on JRE twice)

[@mattgreene17]

@@john_hourihan thank you

[@deborahbarry8458]

@@john_hourihan what’s JRE please

[@whisperywind8768]

Matthew explaining how to dissolve tabs and grind mushrooms, but telling people not to do it, is my favourite part of this video. lol

[@adam551982]

What time does he do that? For educational purposes of course.

[@Godgiven297]

for future viewers, 1:41:25 is the time-stamp

[@donaldaustin7007]

LSD abd mushrooms completely changed my whole outlook on life..I became a better version of myself. This experience gave me a lot of confidence about myself and a bunch of bad thought/behaviour pattern were broken. One of these was pretty bad OCD that made me wash my hands alot..it gave me a lot of hope that things will be fine, this is the one thing that I heard throughout the trip. The main reason for the trip was my severe Depression and it definitely helped me. Before all I could do was lay in bed, now I am trying to rebuild my life one step at a time which wasn't possible before.

[@lucasmiller3015]

Last year, I took shrooms thinking it was going to hit like an edible or something. Shit was scary at first but amazing once you start getting deeper into your thoughts

[@kimberlycarter6567]

I don’t know you but I’m happy to hear it helped you so profoundly. Keep making your life what you want it to be!❤️

[@vac2300]

"Is it helpful to experience grief? Throughout my life, I suppressed my emotions until my girlfriend ended our relationship. Everything fell apart, and I realized that I needed to acknowledge my feelings, but it's overwhelming. I observe her moving on and finding happiness, while I'm stuck in a difficult situation. Although it's painful, her decision to break up with me was the best thing for both of us, since I couldn't truly love others without first loving myself. I was attached to her rather than truly in love." Previously, I experienced various traumas, including parental abuse for a period of 15 years, and also had broken bones. I believe that the associated emotions remain within me since I have not fully processed these experiences. Whenever someone triggers memories of my childhood, it ultimately leads to feelings of grief.

[@cathithomas2888]

Use your experiences to give others HOPE! Bless you always and best wishes.

[@cathithomas2888]

@@vac2300PLEASE FIND HELP SOMEWHERE! Find a doctor who can refer you to medical cannabis or edibles. You can get through it and come out a changed person with determination and help from those who understand! Trust your heart to no one until you feel better about YOU!

[@EvanNagao]

Really wish Andrew would give Dr. Matthew more time to speak before he kept interjecting. There were a lot of interesting conversational pathways that he seemed like he wanted to express, but they kept getting cut off. Not saying this wasn't insightful, but I'd loved to have gotten to understand some of the depths of Dr. Matt's knowledge more.

[@jintazticful]

Well said. Huberman’s interviewing skills have improved drastically, so much so I wish he would re-invite Dr Matt Johnson on again

[@kerri5595]

Yeah, Andrew seems to get impatient with him a lot but this guy should just be given free reign he's such a wealth of knowledge

[@lauraholloway3368]

I think he's just enthusiastic -- hard not to interject sometimes when you're really excited by a topic.

[@Treppiede]

I read this comment before listening to the podcast and I immediately hoped that it wouldn't be the case. I'm regretfully coming back to express my agreement. I'm a big fan of Dr. Huberman, but I just realized that this was the first time I hear one of his "interview podcasts" (I mostly listened to the ones he did solo). I realize that time has passed and his interviewing style probably evolved, but now I'm wanting to seek another platform where I can hear Dr. Johnson speak more freely, uninterrupted. In any case, I wholeheartedly appreciate the content, this is important stuff. 🙏🏼

[@ramadeshraju3391]

It’s Monday evening here in India. I wait the whole day so that people on the other side wake up and it’s Monday morning there for them. My Mondays are to look forward to , cause of the Huberman lab podcast.

[@dianera2571]

Haha!! He is that awesome!! I see Sadhguru at 6 am here because he casts at 6pm IST :)$

[@sebastianradlmeier8922]

Haha, you got half a day less than we do

[@dianera2571]

Haha It’s all good! Social media has brought us all closer together, no matter the time 🙏🏼

[@Snake-Plissken]

Same here from Bulgaria 🇧🇬

[@SameeShafeeg]

Same here in Maldives

[@RyanHellyer]

Consuming psilocybin was the most terrifying experience of my life. It was also the most deeply profound and positive experience of my life. These medicines need to be released for the masses to use. Even if there are potential problems, the benefits are simply too enormous to ignore.

[@MrBirkic]

dangers are also too enormous to ignore.

[@nancyhawkins3401]

There is a wonderful company called Cybin in Toronto Canada doing fantastic research. Excellent company. almost ready for human trials.

[@nancyhawkins3401]

@@MrBirkic curious, what risks?? I now a small % can increase scizzophrenic (sp?) tendencies?

[@MrBirkic]

@@nancyhawkins3401 I would be more worried about HPPD then some psychosis...I dont know why this guy didnt say anything about HPPD. I got HPPD and it ruined my life. I got it because of heavy abuse but people who are careful and dont abuse drugs also get it. this subtances are very powerful, of course they are not risk free and just like they can make your life better, they also got the power to make your life hell.

[@jenmdawg]

I was locked in trauma and grief when my fiancé died in front of me and I did not want to live, let alone take care of life stuff. I took a microcode and went back to bed… and a few hours later I was up and about, went outside, cleaned the dishes. The sadness was still there (and still is) but I saw the way out of the darkness was simple, small best next steps. The psilocybin sparked a wisdom in me that was dormant, lost, out of reach. I am literally a better person because of my loss but only because I had access to golden teacher. I respect the reservations of the medical community but I am damn glad I did not have to wait or beg or finagle my way to get them.

[@bridgerarnold6412]

“For holding the candle in a very dark time, and now, there’s light.” What a wonderful podcast, and a wonderful way to close. Thank you both for this. The work Dr. Johnson is doing is incredible for the world, and Dr. Huberman you are changing the world bringing these types of conversations and knowledge to the public. Thank you both, very much.

[@Ace-ls6yl]

Hubberman only does steroids, he has never done mushrooms, he doesn't know anything about real life!

[@NP-fn1vt]

Tried to understand , very confusing...

[@Alex-hu5eg]

it's a shame that when you look around, your candle immediately burns out in the wind 😅

[@vincentpaul7565]

Good vibes

[@markus717]

ps: at 1hr43min, Huberman talks about people losing their university & medical jobs for pursuing psychedelic research. It should be clarified that this was NOT for cause, but rather as part of the 'War on Drugs' used by ruthless President Richard Nixon as a political weapon and a way to destroy his enemies. His Chief of Staff Bob Haldeman has admitted all of this. It was Nixon's way of destroying the anti-war hippies and the Black Power people and using fear as a vote-getter with the American people. We must all be clear that ruthless politicians like Nixon did great harm with their War on Drugs and weren't doing it 'for us'. FFS: Classifying grass as a 'Schedule One Narcotic', same as heroin! This was NOT science-based, it was anti-science, and designed expressly to PREVENT science from being done.

[@Duskbear]

The greatest thing to happen to Mondays since snow days

[@joydot7620]

🤩

[@Robert_H_Brown]

Been doing psychedelics since 1980. I could have told you they help with depression when I was 12. Good medicine for sure.

[@stendaalcartography3436]

I used to do a lot of psychedelics back in my day(im a man in early 30s) to explore and scout the outer edges and beyond normal consciousness. Dont have timestamp but Huberman said something like, "Why would anyone want to disassociate oneself from the body?" or basically wondering why would anyone seek altered state of consciousness. I can only speak for myself. It's many reasons but to name the main one is my domestically violent childhood led me to extremely low self worth. During heavy bouts with depression as adult, it felt nice to be NOT me. So I started drinking at 15, smoking weed at 15. My first mushroom was at 18. But those were small doses. My first big dose was when I was 24 for 1g of dry. I was able to quit alcohol from that until like 30. Started getting depressed again. Got over that. Now I'm learning more thanks to Huberman that I've also been abusing my dopamine so now that I'm aware, I can tackle that more efficiently. Though it almost feels hopeless because I've been fucking with my system for so long. I do have HPPD from my trips. It comes and goes unexpectedly. It's the same visuals I saw on my very first 1g dry, which is these blackish ethereal fire dances like there's subtle breeze sneaking about. I see tiny tiny little fireflies. They're always there, is the thought I get when I see them on a flashback. I just am not aware of them usually. I then have to just let it happen. If I get scared and fight it, it gets wilder. usually lasts 1~10 mins. You know a flashback is happening immediately as it is happening. It tends to trigger a lot more likely in darkened environment. My trip started with 1g then I eventually raised the dose to 7g within span of one year. I did all my trips by myself. I became schizophreniac for 8 months after my last 7g trip. It's the destruction of boundaries, so my mind was making connection with everything and anything. It's like my then present moment became point of convergence and I began to perceive nearby universes(as in multi verse), and I began to experience versions of me in real time and I went through thousands of me and eventually 3 stayed with me for that 8 month period. How I got out of that ordeal was that when they were leaving, one of them gave me an understanding. I took it and realized that all of those "me"s were just fractured pieces of myself and that would eventually need to coalesce or fuse together in order for me to recover. Surrender was key, both during the trip and after. That was 6 years ago now. During that 1 year I went offline from life and did psychedelics, I also did ayahuasca. My body rejected it and I just puked it all out. If I took 1 dose, I puked one dose. Next dose, I puked again. I tried one more just to make sure, but I puked that up too. I got "high" from it, but all it did was make me crave weed. But that might be separate issue where the "shaman" went cheap on us and diluted the content or I had already some tolerance built up from prolonged usage of psilocybin. I also experimented with microdosing shrooms but I find that after few months, there's seems to be weird sensation in the heart, so I stopped doing that. Then I began again after some time, and the heart thing was happening again. So I stopped again. I think I was predisposed to those mental "illness" and that psychedelics revealed them and over long term usage, have exasperated my whole system. So, yes it can be helpful tool for some people, but some people, they may never recover and or have drastically unintended consequences. Think of psychedelic trips as death. They will likely be a trauma if done incorrectly.

[@skylarbix7912]

Wow, that is really an amazing experience you've had, thank you for sharing this. I just really pray that you will be alright! 😊👍🏻

[@_leivo]

Hi, Thank you for sharing your experience! I have a few questions, have you been to therapy while you started taking psychedelics?

[@stendaalcartography3436]

@@_leivo That was only one question, Niko. And no, I have not. I'm agreeable by nature, but due to the environment I grew up in, I nurtured hefty amount of disagreeableness. So I tend to do poorly with authoritative humans. I do think there may be like rare therapist who would benefit me, but I don't want to go on endless search. Though if I had to mention one person who helped me tremendously would be Dr. Kanojia from HealthyGamersGG. He has a lot of useful content. Due to having been schizophrenic in the past, I was able to spawn an alter ego who acted as therapist and I kinda therapist'd myself. I know such is not recommended, but if I were to grade myself, I think I did it alright.

[@_leivo]

@@stendaalcartography3436 that was the first question only. I just ask you this because the struggles you went through made have been milder if you worked with a therapist, I understand we are all different but I started experiencing hard with psychedelics while I had therapy and I think that was key for me to have a great experience with them. I would say that going to therapy isn't about agreeable or disagreeable people. There are also many different types of therapy, I have been to several therapist but not all of them helped me to grow and understand myself. I wish you the best ❤️

[@stendaalcartography3436]

@@_leivo I think there could've been a world where I found a good therapist to help me along the way. I don't doubt such possibilities. But it was easier for me to not see one because in Asian culture, mental illness is seen as great taboo. Only the freaks and the insane go to therapist, is the general sentiment over in those region. Another big reason why I couldn't see one was because I did not believe I could accurate express what it's like being outside of time and space without them just thinking I've lost all my marbles. My distrust in Big Pharma played into that a little too. But after 7 years since last big trip, I now think it would be kinda cool to see one, but I also feel like it's bit of waste of money and time because I've made so much progress and am no longer actively suicidal.

[@b1_ferg]

Anecdotally, I'm 31 and have been diagnosed at 30 with ADHD and have battled depression on a fairly ongoing basis. Microdosing on psilocybin daily for 90 days helped elevate my mood to a point that I was able to function without being weighed down by my internal thoughts and dialogue. I seemed to more easily be able to brush off negative thoughts and feelings and reorient myself towards my day to day responsibilities. So while it may have not helped my symptoms of ADHD directly, it certainly had a noticeable effect on lifting my symptoms of depression which would naturally allow someone to gain some attentional benefit in turn. We will see just how long these effects last now that I have stopped taking the daily dose, but I'm hopeful that I've utilized the 90 days well to build healthier habits to better maintain my emotional stability. I am very thankful to both of you for this very important conversation surrounding psychedelics. The fact that there are an increasing number of studies being done in areas such as this is incredibly exciting and I look forward to reading the literature that follows.

[@r34ct4]

What do you think of the recent studies that basically prove that microdosing is Placebo?

[@sgracem2863]

@@r34ct4 source?

[@AboodCohen]

Thank you professor for being open minded enough to consider this touchy subject!

[@ashithshankar7492]

There is revolution happening in that space. Psychedelics are the crypto of neuroscience.

[@SoumilSahu]

Psychedelics are a touchy subject?

[@philippeichert]

It's not touchy anymore. Considering it toughy is simply regressive at this point.

[@AboodCohen]

@@SoumilSahu it's taboo in many cultures

[@ataylor992]

It's taboo in the science community in the same way spirituality is taboo in the science community. Things that are hard to pin down with good testable science are not going to be as readily accepted. The jury is still out on psychedelic efficacy in a clinical setting but things will surface soon I'm sure!

[@kyrgyzsanjar]

“Plasticity is not the goal, goal oriented plasticity is the goal” - brilliant! These guys are clearly from upper league

[@gratefulkm]

In Upper league you mean cortex focused of course Like Murugan over Ganesh Cain over Able That focus talks a good talk, but unfortunately it creates the downfall of knowledge via increasing Autism eventually making any society based on attachment collapse Life,s a bitch ,.by trying to make things better you can only make them worse Plasticity is vital and its a feminine controlled society

[@user-wj8ol7kx8c]

@@gratefulkm can u elaborate more on this pls?

[@jerms6642]

what do you mean

[@Mister_Merzen]

Never thought I’d see these two together… after I saw Matthew on the lex Friedman podcast I was hooked! The way he is able to express his in depth understanding of psychedelics and everything of the sort are remarkable!

[@elramos9168]

This Podcast has truly changed my lifestyle in so many positive ways. As someone who has no real knowledge about science and the complex vocabulary, you truly explain in a way that even the most common people can comprehend and easily digestible. Enough in depth for the avecionados but not to complex for the science noobs. Real commendable work and dedication Dr. Huberman. 👏

[@technjunkie2646]

enough in depth for the avocados?

[@octopus8420]

Oh Dr Huberman, thank you for your work. All the topics so far were relatable and helpful to me.

[@nazaninhaddadpour2957]

I have listened to at least four different interview with Dr. Johnson including the ones with Lex Fridman and Tim Ferris. Even thought I enjoyed the conversations, this podcast was still the most organized and comprehensive starting from basics and with the right dose of Chemistry.

[@amyk.budzinski6303]

Thank you!!!! Oh my, I can't find the words to express the gratitude I feel for having two of my favorite scientists speaking on one of my favorite topics.

[@bagfootbandit8745]

Two amazing podcasts, interviewing the same amazing Dr Johnson. Can't get enough of this.

[@helyrambelo795]

What a monday! I got this morning the first newletter from Huberman Lab and now the new episode of the podcast. 1000 Thx Prof Huberman 🙏👍😊

[@Poetry4Peace]

YAAAARSS the newsletter beastly was weird viewing on WIndows mail tho fine on mobile

[@scotthorton9726]

I am 63 yrs old and have had ADHD all of my life. Started microdosing psilocybin a month ago and it's like I don't have ADHD. My mood is much better, I notice details more than ever. Also I am an addict in recovery. Got clean in 2010, and have struggled at times with the desire use. I know it's only been a month, but not one time in the last month have I wanted to get high, and that is not normal. I do believe that microdosing is helping me a lot. Oh, and my arthritis hurts much less.... Bonus

[@christopherhamilton3621]

Nice share, Scott. There are more of us around too. Thanks.

[@scotthorton9726]

@@christopherhamilton3621 Thanks

[@lasvegas.realestate]

I have done a good amount of psychedelics regularly for years, I then didn’t do any for two or more years or more. I used to get flashbacks but not that often… After doing mushrooms twice recently I have had flashbacks ever since. I expected to come to the comments and see everyone does!! But my flash backs are just trails and brighter colors.. like when driving by a white picket fence or while looking at my phone. It’s totally fun and they bring me back to that feeling. 1:10:29

[@maraiabuzakuk800]

This hands down has to be one of the best podcast's I've ever watched! It really resonates with what I want to do in the medical field of psychiatry. Please bring this guest on again to update us on the progress in clinical trials as well as the legality of using such substances in treating psychiatric disorders.

[@michaelcalabrese2308]

This is the podcast I was waiting for, literally cancelling the rest of my day to take this in.

[@stringzar]

Has anyone created a daily schedule with Hubermans advice? Ex: Sunrise(10minute walk), Strength Train, Sunset(10minute walk), etc etc

[@sakuratanaka1877]

Yes I did. I mean, I had my own daily schedule for years, but Dr Huberman did help me with his wonderful light protocol. I wake up at 5.30 - 6.00 am, do my jogging for about 20-25 min, take a cold shower (3 to 5 min), then push-ups, pull-ups, then some Tai Chi etc. I walk some 30 min on the seaside during the sunset and I keep as little dim lights in the evening as possible (that drives my husband crazy, haha!) I'm a (late-ish) middle aged person with a serious chronic condition.

[@kenhnsy]

@@sakuratanaka1877 I have done a similar schedule. Except, I break it (and my diet) up every 3 weeks as he mentioned and that has gotten me unstuck from plateaus.

[@LifeFilmz]

I have I created a schedule where my day starts at 5:30 as well and do my training with lots of lights but the protocols I incorporated are more catered to adhd and focused learning cause I do have adhd but I also have a desire to learn different things such as languages or physical skills so I try to do the 90 minute work and 20 minute relaxation period. Try to get some sun during the 20 minute period. I don’t use my phone 2 hours before bed in fact I’m trying to reduce my social media use to no more than 1-2 hrs a day as that can worsen adhd (I’ve been trying this before I found andrews page for years still difficult for me to do consistently). But yeah I think everyone’s schedule is gonna be fairly different based on the individual needs and preferences we all have.

[@anapoles7285]

@@kenhnsy which podcast does he give you these suggestions

[@kenhnsy]

@@anapoles7285 I don't track episodes very well and there is so much info in each. But in the last couple months Dr. the Man Hube said to switch up cardio and resistance from 3/2 times per week to 2/3 times per week every couple months. And I can't be certain but I am pretty sure he recommended protein cycling whereby one eats much protein. 2--3g/kg followed by a period of reduced protein. Other researchers are validating switching up exercise and also eating cycles. Only Dr, H comes from the neurology point of view. My personal experience is that it got me out of equilibrium and back to losing fat while gaining muscle.

[@mercedesg450]

Just finished listening to this! I learned so much! Dr. Johnson’s passion and love for what he’s doing was felt. Life itself is a trip enough for me but after listening to this I’m sooo curious now! Can’t wait to see how this will unfold in my lifetime. Hoping it will help many people! 🙏🏼💗 Thank you both!!!

[@jordanj.5681]

Please interview Dr. Daniel Z Lieberman - author of The Molecule of More. He doesn’t seem to be on social media but is pretty active on LinkedIn. Would be great to dig into his book as I’m sure there are more complex parts he left out.

[@hubermanlab]

Will do! I love that book.

[@nazaninhaddadpour2957]

@@hubermanlab I have read that book twice after you recommended it along with Dream Drugstore. Please recommend more books.

[@jordanj.5681]

@@hubermanlab have you done it yet? He said on his channel he reached out to you a couple times but you didn’t respond.. it would be an amazing interview!

[@brendaalbrecht]

Finally! The episode I have been waiting for. Thank you for your research at Hopkins, Dr Johnson. I am hopeful that the use of these medicines will be widely available for those who are suffering.

[@emilybarry9410]

Thank you for this compelling conversation, Andrew and Dr. Matthew! I am from Baltimore and have spent time at Hopkins- so this episode strikes a particular accord with me. Psychedelics are truly a fascinating gift from Mother Nature. And, I am looking forward to the day that these medicines and therapies are more available, accessible, and affordable to anyone in need.🍄💜🤗

[@sarahallenhumboldt2638]

Your kitty is beautiful.

[@100ditagirl]

Mondays are the best. Thankyou for these excellent recordings. Raising the profile and making science COOL!

[@kryssalou]

You basically affirmed that ASMR has assisted in not only being able to shut down my mind in order to meditate, but also helps put my fucked up nervous system in a science way not just an autistic special interest/stim way. One thing I would LOVE more research done on.

[@escorp991]

So immensely grateful to finally see an in depth conversation with Dr. Johnson on the topic. So Dr. Huberman, are you even at least inclined to try psilocybin now? :)

[@katieburnett6710]

We need a second episode after if he does, with Dr. Johnson back on!

[@philipkim9779]

Thank you for all the great information. I'm deeply grateful that I have an access to the information that you share. The best part is that your information is always evidence based.

[@nathanielormsby6585]

the fact that through technology we can all get to over hear this discussion is absolutely amazing! if you got to experience one of these in your entire life, you would be fortunate.... yet i have all of these available, on demand and rewatchable. THIS experience type is what truely makes the internet priceless! thanks for allowing us to partake :)

prof. Huberman, thank you very much for this important discussion - we know much more about ongoing processes of far galaxies than about chemistry and biology in our own brains, last 50-years we are much more brave to make rocket and go to Mars, than scientifically explore our own deep biological experiencing or even talk about it without shaming each others, it's time for us to grow up and talk about important things as adults

[@bodymindsoul60]

L🤩VE

[@sam187st]

Its not an easy thing to do. Being able to clearly convey ones thoughts and ideas in real time is sometimes more important than the information itself. I don't know if one is born with "the gift of gab" but Dr. Huberman has it. That gift of his paired with his intellect and education gives him the ability to just clearly drive ideas in my head that would otherwise be lost on me.

[@surfernorm6360]

Normally I would agree but dr Huberman is a professer that is a university level teacher and filling 2 hours with a large amount of information is what he does. For example please notice the time stamps at the end of this and all of his podcasts. Each one covers a definition or a key point in the material of his lecture. If i was taking one of his classes i would hope I had written something down for each of those the later I would try to go back and write clear and legible sentances on every one of those. It took ma a long time to learn to do that but in college as I took notes and edited them till they resembled skome of the better students (usually) women with perfect handwriting My grades started improving even if my handwritng didn't. That is not to say dr Huberman isn't brilliant but I also see hard work and dedication to details. We are so lucky there is information like this available I'm guessing in todays rediculous economy at stanford this podcast would be a $3000 class. You can thank reagan and the republicans for deregulating education and medicine and making it a for profit business,

[@sam187st]

@@surfernorm6360 I'm sure we could agree that here are many very intelligent professors and lectures out there who all work very hard and prep for as many hours as they need, but still some people rise above the rest and it isn't due to preparation some people are just in their element when speaking while others might not be, Dr. Huberman always seems to be in the goldilocks zone of information vs explanation its true he does structure his segments well, but we are watching open conversations here that are dynamic in nature and not lectures.

[@MoreSwoleTheyKnow]

Appreciate your knowledge. 1) So regarding the prior adhd video, are there eye exercises adults can do to decrease their blinking? You mentioned the experiment where children were focusing on a hand then subsequently a farther object. Would you recommend one just read and try to not blink as long as possible to make it habitual? 2) with time perception, how can older people, adults in this case, make time go by slower? Meaning how do we change our perception since it seems to go by faster as we age.

[@DreamChaserEiRi]

2. If you want time go slower. Stand in one place and look at one point 12 hours. If you want time go fast play a game :D

[@alex-mn9tg]

2. Do a lot of new things

[@Poetry4Peace]

@@alex-mn9tg yeees

[@DaveE99]

I just know I did distance track and I distinctly remember starting it and my sense of time significantly slowing down and I was for first time waking up before or with my alarm. My theory is it’s both exercise, but also the intensity of it that helps. Exercise in general does a ton on its own, I just think more came out of it at a higher intensity. A partial theory is that being pushed to constantly push oneself is itself a sort of executive functions challenge that strains and works the brain. I think this slows time down by pushing it into a state that causes it to work at a higher level. That’s what’s happening I have learned when time slows down in this instance. I don’t have detailed research to verify this, this is just my thoughts and observations from analyzing that experience for more than a decade and kinda connecting some dots my self

[@squamish4244]

This talk between Rasputin and Leonidas was very fascinating!

[@matthewvelissaris379]

Great talk. Bit of an error in stating Mckena brothers had no formal science training. Dennis McKena held masters and PhD in Botany from solid research schools.

[@hariselvan5454]

In 2019, I had the pleasure of meeting Dr. Johnson at a conference in Vancouver before I started medical school. This is like the ultimate crossover episode. My interests in neuro and psych continue to grow thanks to the work of these gentlemen

[@MikeJeed]

There are several psychedelic stocks you can invest in: MNMD, CMPS, NUMI, TRIP

[@Respect2theFallen]

Did not know thanks for the tip. Just started investing.

[@geraldnkogbu6210]

How can a novice invest in these psychedelic and biotech stocks

[@carolanncortese7176]

They finally mentioned Timothy Leary half-way through the discussion. However, why wasn't R.D. Laing's research mentioned?

[@kimjin-hyub3413]

Mr Andrew Huberman I owe a debt to gratitude to you . You have changed my life . *THANK YOU*

[@jessicadora7213]

At 44:10, closed eyes, retina has spontaneous activity... I'm interested in hearing more about this

[@Flusterette]

Yup, the eyes never stop seeing

[@allangraham3649]

Thanks to yourself and everyone involved in making these happen ! Peace

[@paraworth]

I love you Huberman. You’re one sharp devoted character enthralling us with science. But you didn’t know what an ethnobotanist was. Hearing that you weren’t familiar with this word helped me realise how little we all know and how much more there always is to explore. Awesome, awesome broadcast helping millions of people around the world. You’re timing is Swiss Mr Huberman We need more like you taking your passion public. I recommend you to everyone

[@SpNGRUGSH]

Mr. Huberman, could you do an episode on speech disorders like stuttering, etc.? I think this topic would be of much interest to many, since these conditions can be really debilitating. Thank you for your KZbin lectures!

[@pokermel]

Paul Stamets was able to cure his stuttering with a macrodose of mushrooms

[@dinalukmanova4865]

Thank you for all your hard work on this podcast, Professor Huberman.

[@eviewilde354]

This is a really long interview I don't have time right now to listen to all of (I'm at the 1 hr mark), but I think Matthew has finally touched on something that is really profound about the psychedelic experience - the sense of the gravity & power of ones own self-agency - which is paradoxical given that when going into the experience, one must give up the need to be in control. So one initially (provided they're in a safe environment) gives up control & surrenders to what the subconscious mind & 'higher self' wants to reveal & work on with the conscious mind in this 'sacred space of introjection', & then one often comes out the other end feeling inspired, empowered, informed, deeply moved, more understanding, with an expanded consciousness, & more 'in control', etc. So far, I'm noticing that you are kind of coming across quite sternly serious and technically-minded, Andrew, possibly because you can't imagine the idea of giving up control & submitting to the wild expanses of the subconscious & subliminal realm being a god thing. Personally, I think you would be profoundly moved & transformed & positively enhanced if you were to try it for yourself, Please do some time! You will never be the same!

[@benbronson-oo1mx]

Mr. Hubermann, thank you for your very eloquent and informative videos. One quick comment: as I watch an interview w Matthew Johnson you've presented 3 or more questions sometimes before he was given a chance to answer the first. I found that frustrating because the questions are so pertinent to me. I will continue nonetheless to follow the topics. Sincerely , Ben

[@JackPaul-rf7tx]

Isadoresekani1 |Gotall psychedelics of interest:

[@moeezali4907]

Thanks for another reason to look forward to Mondays. If I may make suggestion, a podcast on OCD would be helpful.

[@hubermanlab]

It’s coming!

[@trismegistus3461]

Phenomenal interview. You should interview Hamilton Morris, the conversation between you two would be incredible.

[@susansmiles2630]

Thank you, Dr. Huberman for the wonderful work you contribute to our very broken society.

[@freddonovan2978]

I've heard so many wonderful things about magic mushrooms but I can't easily get some, Is there any realiable source I can purchase from??

[@joachimlunares4871]

I did two grams last time, it was a thrilling experience and I enjoyed it

[@evelynbecker4916]

(doctor_spores) Got psych's*

[@joachimlunares4871]

@@evelynbecker4916 where to search? Is it IG ??

[@evelynbecker4916]

@@joachimlunares4871 Yeah, he's got magic mushrooms, LSD, dmt etc

[@freddonovan2978]

@@evelynbecker4916 alright, I'll reach out to him immediately to get some

[@yourself88xbl]

Thank you guys for sharing your time and knowledge! I look forward to more conversations like this.

[@valerieb2963]

YES, Thank you for pointing that out, experience not words. awesome pod as always, thanks Dr Huberman!

[@cristalallen8826]

When Andrew had asked/made a statement “why would anyone want to be outside their body and not in control” I wanted to tell him that not everyone is happy in their body/mind. For some people their own mind is their hell and nothing seems better then escaping it. I understand that wouid be hard to get when your happy with yourself and your mind…. But that’s not the case for a lot of people

[@sillabaez]

I enjoy all your videos Dr. Huberman. I can’t help but notice that some guests don’t let you elaborate without interrupting you. Your insights are very valuable and enlightening, interrupt if you have to 😂

[@ioanaboerescu5051]

Thank you for another revealing conversation, one of my favorite ideas formulated through dialogue (paraphrased): one would rather seek goal directed neuroplasticity than neuroplasticity as a goal (schizophrenia, for example, manifests a lot of neuroplasticity per se).

[@merkisruiz3120]

It’s freaky that Dr. Huberman is always dropping videos on topics that I had just been looking into.

[@mouwersor]

Seeing connections where there are no causal relations is a symptom of schizophrenia, don't do psychedelics

[@merkisruiz3120]

@@mouwersor or perhaps I’m superstitious, maybe even self-centered. The possibilities are endless. But thanks for your concern.

[@Custodian123]

So happy about this new paradigm of quality information entering the likes of KZbin, that will drown out the lower quality information.

[@loppystu78]

Fascinating topic! I have been waiting for this episode. Thank you so much for covering this important topic Dr. Huberman and Dr. Johnson.

[@physicianskitchen]

This makes me so grateful and enthusiastic about science and medicine. We have a long way to go to truly grasp human health and disease in its entirety but we are making such remarkable progress. Thankful for every single person doing their part in the enormous body of work that is science.

[@Torshaa]

Phenomenal video! Thank you guys for this !

[@amalgustafson4307]

you addressed so many questions I had. thank you for the sharing such great knowledge. Dr Huberman, you make it so easy for us to always be interested in science.

[@vvzzxv1252]

Professor , your podcast has truly been helpful in life. Thank you

[@CazalasMichele]

Thank you for this informative interview. It's exciting to see that scientist are actually studying psychedelics! Keep up the amazing podcast Interviews!!

[@marthahorton5350]

Put on one of my favorite Pink Floyd songs (Wish You were Here) after listening to this. Yeah their songs are LONG but so is this podcast hehe. The song definitively takes on a whole different meaning knowing that psychedelics were involved. A man once told me that DMT helped him get rid of his feeling of loss and separation after his father's death. I have been thinking about the therapeutic potential of these drugs ever since. I wonder if in the context of some ancient cultures the use of these drugs was used to restore a sense of belonging with the tribe? Especially when people experienced a difficult loss or challenge. A fascinating topic for sure!

[@Poetry4Peace]

Yesss very intriguing that is just the power of plants and all, i really want to try shrooms ;P also whats the fav song u listened to?

[@marthahorton5350]

@@Poetry4Peace the song is Wish You Were Here. I was reading about it. The composers (Waters and Gilmour) wrote it about their former lead singer ( Syd Barrett) who they totally lost to LSD. Hence the name of the song. I have never done drugs but I'm fascinated by their effects. Be careful if you try, make sure you find an experienced guide.

[@Poetry4Peace]

@@marthahorton5350 Alright thanks was confused by the brackets and yeah definitely

[@marthahorton5350]

@@Poetry4Peace yeah, I need to be more grammatical rigorous with my posts ☺ You're welcome!

[@Poetry4Peace]

@@marthahorton5350 it was funny my brain thought u wished huberman was here ahah

[@Flying_Dutchman66]

This is the best dialog between 2 proffies wich is very informative and exploring. Wonderfull!

[@abigailsurasky5785]

I'm late to the party, but thank you for such a rich and candid free-ranging conversation, for all this dedication, and to all the institutions, individuals, and philanthropists making this happen. Really important work. 2:38:40 - Andrew, you're so gracious, and we second all your sentiments about Matthew's work. 2:41:00 - Thank you for opening the gates to the Ivory Tower. 2:35:10 - Lol!

[@MrBloodySpirit]

Mr Huberman, a great podcast as always! I am wondering, will you do an episode on libido? The mechanics behind it, how to manipulate it etc.

[@flochfitness]

The podcast we have been waiting for!!!

[@RDeVito]

The question about synesthesia is why I’m especially intrigued by the topic of neurotransmitters and their effects. When you begin to really understand them youll find yourself constantly trying to make sense of previously complex things.The effect that it has on perspective is amazing. It produces questions like this that are a product of a critically thought out idea.

[@squamish4244]

Imagine how much different the world would be today if psychedelic research hadn't been killed off 50 years ago. It almost makes me angry. On the other hand, at least it's happening now, and I will live to see this extraordinary work blossom.

[@sandtx4913]

Quite interesting and informative interview/conversation, very engaging. Your background (as a professor) combined with not having any experience with psychedelic or plant medicine, kept the conversation grounded and was more focused on the western scientific aspect of it. Most people with psychedelic experience would keep throwing their experience in it (probably because of excitement). Was missing the spiritual aspect that can come with a plant medicine journey though. But guessing that it's because of the medical clinical setting of the trials and people in the field of science don't know how to measure spirituality without machinery. I hope this conversation may one day be a catalyst for you to explore what plant medicines like ayahuasca or psilocybin can truly do (preferably with a experienced shaman in a spiritual setting). Would love for you to interview Bruce Lipton on epigenetics and quantum mechanics, and his take on science, spirituality and healing trauma.

[@p5rsona]

I just pray I will be able to get this treatment soon.

[@mouwersor]

Or take life by the horns and do it yourself

[@p5rsona]

@@mouwersor I did and it was one of the worst experiences of my life since the trauma was fully unleashed without proper help. This is why I want help of someone.

[@mouwersor]

@@p5rsona Did you use MDMA or psychedelics? MDMA is most advisable for trauma since it's pretty hard to go bad on it

[@intofreedom4479]

So, you know Great podcast! Loved to see how Dr. Huberman opened up to the discussion of psychedelics.

[@mosesmukuna]

Time for more enlightenment, thanks prof.

[@SolvingTheMoneyProblem]

Awesome conversation!

[@omara6292]

Can you do a 1-2 minute recap at the end of all your podcasts that would provide a summary?

[@sakuratanaka1877]

Dr Huberman, my husband and I, we discovered you a few years ago while listening somebody's podcast. Instantly, we both knew this scientist is a real deal. So far, never disappointed with your teaching. Now, some time ago I watched your interview for another podcaster. At some point you said: 'When all this madness ends...' This! I take my hat off to you, Professor. I'd like to remind people those quick to judge - never underestimate the complexities of human nature. Or, for that matter, the intricacies of the scientific world. Be smart to read between the lines...

[@N8TRONOUS]

That was amazing! Thank you for all the hard work you do to inform and educate us.

[@sakuratanaka1877]

I had no idea how many (crazy) unimaginable things exist in this world... But then I discovered the HL podcast... Well, you live and you learn...

[@plectro3332]

I have to say I would love to see more studies on microdosing. I have personally tried it myself and I feel it has helped significantly when I was depressed. I was microdosing with 6 mcg of LSD once every 3 days (Dissolved in water) and after months of struggling to get out of bed and do anything productive, I managed to spend 6 hours cleaning up my room. That has never happened before in my life and after 1 hour max I'd get bored and just want to get back to bed. Microdosing didn't feel like it directly helped depression. But I felt like it gave the motivation and energy to start doing productive things which in turn helped with depression. This is just my personal experience though and of course needs research done. But I did feel like microdosing was met with a bit too much skepticisim in this episode which I'm a bit sad to hear seeing as it did feel like it helped me a lot. (Who is to say that placebo would be any different. I don't know...)

[@JimmyfromPhilly1]

Try doing a heroic dose but have a benzo around if it becomes too much,try it!!!

[@nieczerwony]

Problem is not if it helped when you take it, but will it be sustained when you stop taking it. Having microdose to function is not better than sitting on pills for the same condition.

[@district216official]

What a perfect entry point for the curious psychonaut at heart. Bravo and thank you both.

[@davidlakhter]

55:00 "This gravity of agency" - that is an amazing way to put it.

[@bennyblacksheep]

Andrew, would you consider creating an episode that includes information regarding bi-polar disorder? I have type 2 and it is wreaking havoc on my life. I find that many forms of treatment such as those mentioned in this episode are not as applicable for people with bipolar. Traditional medicine has failed me and I’m getting increasingly more desperate for help. Thank you Dr. Huberman!

[@ixxgxx]

so you have been hospitalized for mania? psychotic at times? any poly substance abuse? if so, i'd say you are ruled out for psychedelics because it could backfire and lock you into psychosis permanently.

[@zachariahdrown8435]

Happy Monday

[@RA-oz4xk]

I agree about the affirmation bs. Action speaks louder than words

[@roj499]

I would love a whole episode about disassociation, more in terms of the extreme of experiencing a separation of your mind from your body. I remember the first time it happened I was maybe like 13 and it was a terrifying experience.

[@BrendanDolehide]

I’ve had this happen to me during meditation not too long ago. Something I’ll never forget

[@tigershenanigans6878]

Agree 💯

[@danielndibongo5048]

i experience a dissociative disorder, which I think started around 11 or 12, it was interesting hearing them talk about dissociation as a symptom of psychedelics, since some people experience it on a regular basis. makes me wonder if things like lsd affect dissociative brains differently or if lsd makes a neurotypical brain more like a dissociative one

[@bjeanty2452]

I struggled a lot with dissociation but I began to find peace with it when studying Tibetan Buddhism. They make the argument that it’s scary when your mind leaves your body because our egos hold our self with high importance. I find that when I let go of the idea of myself, dissociation isn’t nearly as scary or depressing.

[@Flusterette]

Dissociation is an umbrella term & a spectrum of experience. It's applicable when you're driving & run on autopilot, & think back "Whoa I don't remember even getting over on the highway to get to my exit!" But speaking as someone with CPTSD, it's also a maladaptive coping mechanism as a trauma response, & has been a frustrating symptom. Dissociative Disorders exist, & highlight examples of the most debilitating ends of the dissociative spectrum. Many times you may have dissociated without even knowing it. When you're off in your own world & ppl can't easily get your attention: likely you're dissociated. Yeah, being aware of it is odd. But usually benign & perfectly normal. Just can put you at additional risk of danger if you're out in the world active while it's going on. But also can be disabling on the Disorder spectrum end. And everything in-between.

[@slalialley3786]

"That's saying something...SOMETHING." I like the reversed reflection of Matthew's coffee mug handle through his water glass.

[@zivana234]

DR HUBERMAN thank you for the vital range of topics you cover, you will yet be celebrated amongs the aware. It would ve wondefu to cover the topic of Pregnany, pre post and all that comes with it, from celular to enviroment. Thank you, this was an amazing podcast.

[@barney2006p]

Andrew thank you for bringing people on and asking these technical questions. Great people, great questions, great answers! P.S. I just took LSD this weekend and moved a woman in my home. Great Experience!

[@mattbabb.]

Wow didn’t think I’d ever disagree with Huberman! I’m a bit surprised he’s so dismissive of the power of thought. The very basis of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is the “cognitive model”, which states that one’s thoughts, beliefs, and interpretations of events and emotions are directly linked to our psychological well-being (or lack thereof), and by intervening consciously with those thoughts, beliefs, and interpretations, we can relieve anxiety, depression, and a whole host of other mood disorders. This has been backed up clinically to an impressive degree. I’m hoping Huberman has on a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist soon. Would be a nice addition to this mental health streak he’s got going here.

[@nathanwagester6665]

It didn’t seem to me he was disagreeing that thought itself is a powerful mental tool, rather he was dismissive of the manipulation of language to overcome severe mental disorder! That’s a big difference! Thought is not confined to language and one might argue that merely saying an affirmation “I feel good” is not equivalent to actually thinking “I feel good”.

[@christopherhamilton3621]

@@nathanwagester6665 Totally agree with you. He was very explicit in contextualizing it within a holistic therapeutic & interroceptive framework.

[@nieczerwony]

I did CBT and it didn't help a lot. Same AK journaling, meditation and others. What helped me is clean nutrient dense food optimized for neurotransmiter and testosterone. Your hormones drive your emotions. I dare anyone with low testosterone to try going with brain over emotions. Impossible.

[@jaymorris7296]

Great Podcast, as usual, you make learning enjoyable. I have a thought on the simultaneous dose of serotonin and dopamine. It simulates the tuning of your own waves, brings everything into harmony. Think of a sine wave with a balance of near 0.

[@amandeepkaur82]

this is going to be one of the best podcast about psychedelics for ours and future generations!

[@rileydavidjesus]

I've been waiting my whole life for this episode.

[@Tuathanari]

I've always been interested in the idea of psychedelics but have never been comfortable enough with myself to let go of control that way... this is an incredibly interesting topic, thank you Huberman! :)

[@prometheusrex1]

Agreed. Some people suffer a brutal "ego death" as a result of psychedelics -- their sense of self is destroyed and they become completely lost and disoriented. Still, the people with those outcomes appear to be a minority of those who undergo treatment.

[@davyroger3773]

@@prometheusrex1 Ego death is analogous to returning to the "no mind" of the Buddha ie a mystical experience that can be a blissful one only if you let go. It doesnt take courage to let go but just acceptance. Similar to the acceptance of the gazelle caught in the jaws of a Lion, theres nothing to do but just give in.

[@prometheusrex1]

@@davyroger3773 You can cast it as some kind of peaceful surrender, but I've seen certain people permanently lost/disoriented/warped as a result of their experience. Point is, there are some adverse effects and negative outcomes.

[@felicityduijkersloot6043]

Do it! But start with a low dose..

[@colliemon]

@@prometheusrex1 Like Dr. Johnson said in the podcast, your environment is crucial to the experience. They aren't just giving psychedelics to someone and saying, "hey find some friends to trip with." It's controlled and the people go through therapy sessions. In this setting the effects you mention have been miniscule. Individuals with risk of certain mental illnesses (i.e. schizophrenia) should be wary, but I'm hopeful about the continued research in those areas, and the therapeutic benefit have been astonishing already

[@imm0rtalitypassi0n]

Psychedelics hold so much potential for treating trauma and some diseases, and I am so grateful it's being pursued as such. However, I caution folks on recreational use. To some extent it may be harmless, but there does seem to be a cumulative effect for regular or prolonged use that is a detriment to one's health. Not to mention the occasional disaster: My friends knew a guy who was on LSD at a punk house in NYC, and who wandered off alone and ended up falling out of a 3rd story window in his early 20s. He ended up with significant TBI damage, and a permanent colostomy bag...living the rest of his life on disability checks. I'd see him occasionally wandering around the neighborhood with a limp and terrible head scars.

[@siemore]

Talking about ASMR, Andrews sometimes low vibrating voice definitely satisfies me A LOT.