Dr. Robert Ritner - An Egyptologist Translates the Book of Abraham Pt 1 - Mormon Stories

[@snowman72891]

I am incredibly saddened to say that Dr. Ritner passed away on July 25. Dr. Ritner, Rest In Peace.

[@KidFreshie]

It was the masons. Jk kidney disease and leukemia. But he gave us all this incredible gift less than a year before passing. May Horus and Osiris accept him into their presence in the afterworld.

[@katphyre]

That's so sad! The world has lost so much knowledge.

[@afwalker1921]

Our graveyards are full of irreplaceable people. I write a vampire character, a dead little girl. She says to the living, "Death is your problem. Death is the only problem you have!" My vampires prize knowledge above all else...@@katphyre

[@j.p.7309]

I am grateful for the gift of his time that he shared with us

[@jaredmitchell1302]

When I learned the truth of the book of Abraham I had already quit believing in the church but still questioned whether I was being deceived. But when this information was given to me I knew I was right in leaving and haven't questioned myself since.

[@Will0wFire]

I love Dr Ritner's blunt sense of humour at times. I burst out laughing when he said the only word in common between two documents is the word "the". I'm listening while working, so can't quote or find the timestamp. Bit it made people ask why I was laughing.

[@isidoravojinovic7362]

its at 01:35:00

[@launagregersen8923]

I am sad to see that a non Mormon scholar has declared Ritner and Vogel wrong about the book of Abraham and declared Gregersens was correct about Smiths translation. How do we fix this? Look at Paul Gregersens new video featuring this Egyptian scholar. Link to Gregersens sight

[@richarddick2955]

Yes me too, i cant believe Egyptologists are saying Gregersen is right. He apposes BYU EGYPTOLOGISTS ALSO. @@launagregersen8923

[@richarddick2955]

What? How can that be?@@launagregersen8923

[@bunifer]

Thank heavens for Dr Ritner! I am so grateful for his work and scholarly input and setting the record straight. I am saddened by his unfortunate passing. Rest in peace Dr Ritner. Because of you, you have made my world a better place and gave me the ability to see through all the mormon apologetic BS and look at the world as it is, and not through the mormon filter!

[@josephr.gainey2079]

May he rest in peace!!!!!!!

[@launagregersen8923]

Did you hear about non Mormon egyptologists declaring Ritner wrong and endircing Paul Gregersens translation. Look at his latest video.

[@TheShodan92]

​​@@launagregersen8923... Paul Gregersens videos are his own subjective creations that make quantum physics look easier to understand. He fosakes the fact that researchers like Robert Ritner are qualified in the field of Egyptology and he fails to debunk their findings. Had any of Gregersens presentation have credibility it would've been hailed as truth by top church leaders and canonized as such. It is not primarily acknowledged by church leaders in that way. Gregersens work is for entertainment purposes only.

[@tuckerallen1421]

We truly lost a treasure. Dr. Ritner was invaluable to Egyptology and I'm so glad this series was made before his passing.

[@Frontlineleadershipwithsteven]

This was one of the best interviews I've watched in years!

[@jameswalberg3265]

Am only an hour in and have chills going up and down my spine. You did not overstate the importance of the interview. Anyone planning on listening, hang on

[@AarmOZ84]

If there was ever an interview about the Book of Abraham that I wanted to hear, this was IT! Thanks for working so hard to get him on.

[@zacharyriley4122]

and thanks to the good and kind egyptologist for all his hard thankless work on the subject.

[@82566]

100%

[@richarddick2955]

But what you heard was misleading. A guy on KZbin demonstrated that Joseph Smith never did translate the names of these Gods. He called them the Gods of and not Gods.

[@richarddick2955]

Ritner is caught red handed deceiving you in the above video! Notice how he falsely tries to make you think that Joseph Smith mistakingly labeled the Egyptian God "OF" Elkanah as literally being Elkanah? Or, the God "OF" Korish was somehow actually being Korish himself! Do you dare even recognize how you are having your intelligence insulted here? Would you say the "God OF Abraham" was Abraham? Or, the God of Jacob was named Jacob? Prophets have always used this prophetic type of terminology to avoid the repeating of God's name over and over in scripture! If you say "the God of Abraham" everybody knows it is referring directly to "Jehovah" and NOT Abraham in which you were referring too! Joseph Smith never ever said the God of Elkanah was named Elkanah like Dr. Ritner clearly gets this fact all wrong! Read Joseph's explanation closely in the book of Abraham, he only refers to this subject as the four corners of the earth in his translations, and no more! This whole subject has become an anti Mormon echo chamber of misdirection. Let me disentangle it for you. Dr. Ritner and these anti Mormons convert Joseph's motives into a false narrative using the wrong lens to focus your attention on the wrong emphasis. They obviously think that you are stupid and hope you will never notice the correct textual meaning while they try to make it say something else that it clearly doesn't say at all ! Why? Because they hate the church and constantly resort to new trickery. Actually Karry Muelestine and Dr. Gee are correct by their associating those canopic jar names with the four corners of the earth only in their first video. However, later even they somehow got off the track. But, the four corners of the earth described as the God of Elkanah is the same thing as saying the God "OF "Israel was literally Israel itself. You don't need to say the actual name of the God at all to refer directly to it ! ! ! The God of Elkanah is talking about a name of a place or person like unto the God of Israel or likewise the God of Egypt or the God "OF" some other entity. If it meant Elkanah was the name of the god then it would obviously name it "the God-Elkanah" and not the god "OF" Elkanah. Why did Joseph Smith not ever use Egyptian names? A true prophet would not have associated false God's having fictitious fake Egyptian names becoming legitimized in holy scripture anyway. In Doctrine & Covenants Joseph Smith never ever names Mars or Jupiter or Venus as he describes planets or solar systems. The same reason no prophet would EVER legitimize pagan God's like Mars or Venus in any holy scripture. Instead a true prophet would use gospel related Hebrew names that God sanctioned to describe God's creations and never adapt Idalatrous names coming from man made Greek or Egyptian myths. These guys in this video figure you are stupid. It's all an echo chamber of misdirection. This guy posted Abraham KZbin videos clearly disentangle these lies easily. To see this click KZbin video titled " Book of Abraham part 13" By P. Gregersen. Take notice, how no church critic will dare respond to his objections to their above video. . Why? I've exposed them.

[@richarddick2955]

Everybody was talking about it in church the other day. How Paul Gregersen was destroying the Book of Abraham lies of the anti Mormons. Thousands of people have seen your videos now and its bringing people back to believing in the Book of Abraham even stronger. Good work man!

[@pieter-janvanpersie5813]

I barely past highschool with the lowest possible grades, but somehow the conversations were not difficult to follow and understand. I always admire people with so much knowlegde explain a topic so well to everybody, that anyone can understand the value.

[@sharkofjoy]

It was 3 hours long and that was exactly how slow I needed them to go.

[@josephr.gainey2079]

@@sharkofjoy I agree totally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can you imagine how wonderful it must have been to be in his classes?!?!?!?! WHAT A LOSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!°

[@drbrendankishketon]

Dr. Ritner is a true scholar. He appeared in a video called “The Lost Book of Abraham: Investigating an Extraordinary Claim.” It was that very video that gave me the knowledge I needed to be able to walk away from the LDS church forever. Before that, I could not walk away from it because I thought the church was true. His work (and others) PROVED that Joseph Smith did not have the power to translate ancient texts as he had claimed. This meant that his other claims were false too, such as the BofM. This is all it took for me. I submitted my resignation letter to the LDS church and walked away a free man. You can’t imagine the feeling of finally breaking away from the grips and the control of the LDS church. It broke my heart to leave the church cuz I was a true believer (served a mission and everything). Dr. Ritner’s work allowed me to do that and I’m forever grateful to him for that!

[@germanslice]

The church has the truth, The Prophet Malachi foresaw this faith crisis that would occur to weak latter-day saints in the last days who would doubt the goodness of the Lord being corrupted and weakened by the world's philosophies and then wonder and murmur to themselves of the doings of the Lord in his kingdom and all of their murmurings would drive them out of the Church. The Lord has this to say to those who have cast his covenant away from them. "Your words have been stout against me, saith the Lord. Yet ye say. What have we spoken, so much against thee? Ye have said. It is vain to serve God, and what profit is it that we have kept his ordinances, and that we have walked mournfully before the Lord of Hosts? Malachi 3:12-17. That's the attitude of weak latter-day saints who do not stop their murmurings. They have a bad attitude towards the Lord.

[@drbrendankishketon]

Using a made-up book (the Bible) as the basis of your argument is like using the “three little pigs” story. Both are made up. I’m not weak nor am I LDS, and I’ve never been happier!! I walked away from a totally made-up religion. Nothing weak about that.

[@germanslice]

@@drbrendankishketon The Latter-day Saints have the truth about Elohim and his laws and of his existence..

[@drbrendankishketon]

germanslice No weak mind necessary to walk away from the church. Joseph Smith’s own fraudulent actions were enough. Sounds like you have it all figured out though. As long as you’re happy. All that matters.

[@germanslice]

@@drbrendankishketon I already have got God figured out. The latter-day Saints have got the truth and always had it for the last 200 years they had the sealed Book God had given to them. God said he would hand the book to an angle and the angle would give the book over to a man down on the earth to give it to all nations, kindreds, tongues and people as a warning to prepare the way for the Second Coming of the Lord. So the Lord is not going to come without first preparing the way for a forerunner for his kingdom to be restored.. Since John was talking about the last days of this plant.

[@markgardner4426]

RIP Dr. Ritner. You were a a brilliant and valued scholar. As a lover of all things Ancient Egyptian, I am well aware of his work. It is ironic his great teacher, Klaus Baer, also died before his time.

[@kentthalman4459]

It was a major win for Mormonism to capture these interviews before Ritner's passing.

[@losttribe3001]

2:46:40 Well there you have it. The real reason people get into Egyptology! Seriously, as an ex Mormon, I’m absolutely blown away at how bad Joseph Smith’s “translation” of the papyri truly was. I knew the general argument that he was completely wrong, but for Dr. Ritter to go into detail is fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to go deep into this issue.

[@gao123_89]

SUMMARY 1. Egyptian symbols change over time - you can tell when it was written by the style of the symbols. Joseph Smith's Abraham papyrus is written using symbols from 100 BC (definitely not 2000 BC) 2. It's a burial text, wishing them a successful trip to the next life, not a murder story about priest trying to sacrifice Abraham 3. Joseph Smith claimed that the Book of Mormon used Reformed Egyptian because it was easier to fit the words on the plates (the characters contain more meaning - more bang for their buck than Hebrew). This was a common myth in American Egyptology in the 1800's but it is dead wrong. The Egyptian language is phonetical so you don't get a bigger bang for your buck. 4. The book of Abraham imports errors from the Bible's book of Exodus. The first 5 books of the Bible are called the Torah and were written by Moses (after Abraham). Moses was around 1200 BC. But in Exodus, Abraham's great grandson Joseph meets an Egyptian named Potiphar. Potiphar is an Egyptian name that only started existing in 700 BC. Therefore, Moses's book of Exodus must have forgotten the correct Egyptian name in oral tradition, so they later swapped in a modern name, which would be impossible to be accurate (the grammar for creating the name Potiphar had not been invented yet). Yet, in the book of Abraham (around 2000 BC, even before Moses), he finds a hill named Potiphar's hill - an impossible name for 2000 BC, but a logical name if someone is making stuff up and drawing upon the Bible as inspiration. [Abraham 1:10 "Even the thank-offering of a child did the priest of Pharaoh offer upon the altar which stood by the hill called Potiphar’s Hill, at the head of the plain of Olishem."] 5. Egypt never controlled the territory of Ur. [Abraham 1:20 "Behold, Potiphar’s Hill was in the land of Ur, of Chaldea."] 6. Egyptian priests did not perform human sacrifices as claimed was the custom in the book of Abraham. 7. Only 1% of ancient Egyptians could read and write. It took training in the temples to learn reading and writing. Highly unlikely that Abraham could immigrate to Egypt and become a writer of the language. 8. The LDS church publicly admits that nothing on the Abraham papyrus matches what Joseph Smith said it was. The word Abraham is not mentioned anywhere on the papyrus. 9. The papyrus Joseph used was missing a head, a hand, arms, and a belly. Joseph Smith attached the papyrus to another parchment, and practiced drawing some lines to fill in the blanks. The drawings are even different from the final version as he was playing with the idea of putting the knife in the left hand or the right hand - evidence that he is just making it up. 10. This scene is a very common scene in Egyptian mythology. There is always a black jackal that guides a dying body on the lion table to the afterlife. Because it is so common we know that Joseph got many details wrong. A. The body of the priest is black, but Joseph gives him a white human head. It is supposed to be a black dog head (jackal). B.There are not supposed to be two arms raised by Abraham defensively, one hand is raised (signifying the resurrecting of Osiris with life coming back into his arm), the other is supposed to be touching his penis, based on the legend of impregnating the bird goddess. C. There is not supposed to be a knife because this lion table is used for funeral rituals to bless the dead on their way to the afterlife and is never used for human sacrifice. D. The pots below the lion table are not idols, but rather jars to hold the organs of the dying individual for containment with mummification. E. There are supposed to be two birds. Joseph's papyrus includes the tip of the 2nd bird's wings, but Joseph mistook it for a hand, and filled in the gap with two arms instead of one arm and one bird wing. 11. Joseph Smith claimed that the lion table was a sacrificial alter. But, actually the lion table is well known two be the two headed lion god that represents the sky horizon. By placing the dead body on top of the sky horizon god, it was symbolic of exalting the body to heaven - nothing to do with sacrifice. 12. Joseph claimed the four jars represented four gods - Elkenah, Libnah, Mahmackrah, and Korash. Yet, these names are not Egyptian and appear to be completely made up. 13. Joseph claimed that a weird thing in front of the lion table was "Abraham in Egypt", but it is actually a little alter with lily flowers to bless the dead with rebirth, and wine jars beneath. Hue Nibly tried to claim that the offerring on the mini alter was symbolic of Abraham in Egypt, but there are many funeral texts that all have the mini alter with lily flowers and wine. It doesn't make sense that it would be symbolic of Abraham in every Egyptian text.

[@cow1939]

I laughed out loud at the four made up names. What a sham and shame on the Mormons. I was one for 50 years and I’m finally out at age 83

[@Bunchoeves]

​@cow1939 I was born in the church and at 56, an oldest of my siblings that is still in the church, but I've been falling out of belief for the last 3 months. In some ways I am happy but also heartbroken because my husband is still very committed. Now I have to decide about telling my kids and possibly pull them away too, which makes me feel terrible. But why, when I know it's a lie? How will they feel if I don't tell them my real feelings to keep them in?

[@transcendentphilosophy]

@@Bunchoeves These are the horrible and complex decisions we must face in the aftermath of the carnage the church creates. I know of no easy answers. I usually lean towards honesty!

[@denisepace3229]

What a wealth of knowledge! It is so sad he passed but thank goodness you were able to have this interview series recorded before ♡

[@jbroblox6976]

This is blowing my mind right now!!!! No active members understand egyptology. We just blindly believe the things that are being presented to us, and take it as true evidence. Technology is advancing. We can't be gaslighted the same way like our parents were in the past. I always remember looking at some of the hieroglyphics and its interperation below in the pearl of great price. Based on the simple history books and classes throughout my early days in school, I immediately recognized the translations were not right, or they felt like such a stretch.

[@grantbeck9228]

This is the linchpin that keeps people in the church isn’t it? Those willing to admit our parents and grandparents were wrong. They were lied to and passed those lies on to us. It’s too piercing of an accusation for some. But we have all the info now and our brains can’t ignore the facts to maintain the faith and narrative we were brainwashed with.

[@scottsherry5812]

RIP TO ROBERT RITNER. An absolute legend. 😥😥😥😥😥

[@KidFreshie]

It was the masons. Jk kidney disease and leukemia. But he gave us all this incredible gift less than a year before passing. May Horus and Osiris accept him into their presence in the afterworld.

[@RoanPretorius-de7xv]

I’m so sorry to hear he passed - such a very intelligent educated and fair man

[@sistersubdued9503]

I was just asked by a family member to back up my opinion of, Kerry Muhlestien. And then I found this! Your timing is perfect. Thank you

[@MapleBoarder78]

I came here after listening to a FairMormon video that said no “real” egyptologists ever translated the papyri. Fairmormon also said they would believe the Book of Abraham even if Joseph Smith translated it from a Ramen Noodle packet which was really telling. Thanks for posting this. They

[@Smileygld123]

Wow, no respect for Fairmormon then!

[@claireslattery7]

Wow wow wow this information needs to be shared far and wide. Thank you so much !!!!!

[@johnbosco3794]

I lost my sister to mormonism, there's nothing I can say to her, she could watch this and say she'll pray about it. Truth is not what drew her into the mormon beliefs. It's sad.

[@MrIlovebmw86]

So what did ?

[@RoanPretorius-de7xv]

@@MrIlovebmw86 my guess is a boyfriend husband ?

[@baddie1shoe]

I remember when I was growing up I would see commercials for Mormonism. It seemed like they had the answer and one time I called the number..but got shy. Lost people feel drawn to cults. I have off and in been very lost.

[@TheYoungFactor]

This KZbin video changed my life

[@FFM115]

16 dislikes, 16 Members still in denial! Great interview

[@zacharyriley4122]

Or 16 of them are in Australia.

[@pb9240]

Believing the Book of Abraham is inspired holy scripture - especially given the mountain of evidence to prove it wrong - is about as ridiculous as believing the earth is flat. Fantastic podcast and interview!

[@pb9240]

Robert Rosskopf Please reference this “mountain of evidence” that supports the BoA. Also, how many non-Mormon Egyptologists support Joseph Smith’s translations? It’s 100% a fair characterization - you just have cognitive dissonance.

[@pb9240]

Robert Rosskopf from the church’s own essay: “None of the characters on the papyrus fragments mentioned Abraham’s name or any of the events recorded in the book of Abraham. Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham, though there is not unanimity, even among non-Mormon scholars, about the proper interpretation of the vignettes on these fragments.27 Scholars have identified the papyrus fragments as parts of standard funerary texts that were deposited with mummified bodies. These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E., long after Abraham lived.” www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham?lang=eng It’s actual comical that you have to play so much mental gymnastics in your mind for the BoA to somehow be valid and legitimate; it’s an obvious fraud.

[@pb9240]

Robert Rosskopf Joseph Smith claimed it was written by the “hand of Abraham himself.” “A Translation of some ancient Records that have fallen into our hands from the catacombs of Egypt. The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the Book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus.” Now you are just proving my original point as to how ridiculous it is to believe in the historicity of the BoA; you move the goal posts to make it somehow work, but Joseph Smith claimed it was a translation from Abraham’s own hand. Listen to the second interview as well; there is a mountain of evidence to prove the BoA wrong, you just refuse to accept any of it because of blind faith and allegiance to the church.

[@tavspop]

@@edu.santos or any god or anything supernatural.

[@godschild4158]

@@edu.santos indeed and the bible is total bs as well

[@daniellima2973]

Wow ! I love how Dr. Ritner pulls no punches. He calls the ideas absurd and other not so nice adjectives. He calls out apologists by name. Contrast that with Dr.Coe's interview where he was very careful to not call people out. Both good approaches. But I love Ritner's approach

[@zacharyriley4122]

he is not bashful or intimidated nor is he shy.

[@82566]

I appreciate & respect his no bs way of relaying facts

[@TheBackyardProfessor]

What a fabulous discussion! THANK YOU for putting this together. Sensational and delightful! None of you have annoyed me.

[@mjq243]

If I was dodgy - I'd have chosen Egyptian because it would be so much harder to disprove!

[@johngrass7441]

Joseph could not translate. This is a fact. Thank you John Dehlin, RFM and Dr. Ritner!!! Absolutely one of the most important interviews ever.

[@karlhansen1543]

And he pretended to be able to read it. To me that’s the important part.

[@morningstoke]

@@karlhansen1543 Agreed

[@Steven-ko6ky]

Thank you Dr. Ritner!

[@pvanmondfrans]

This is THE definitive and quintessential Mormon Stories interview about the Book of Abraham. Dr. Ritner's presentation is stunning, deep, and overwhelming! I can't help but applaud Joseph Smith's imagination, but he didn't translate the Book of Abraham from papyrus- FACT!

[@anthonydurling4093]

This is now in my top 5 favorite podcast of all the genre I listen to

[@jackloganbill605]

Many of us taught that JS had correctly translated these vignettes for years...and now we are not only embarrassed, but ashamed....I hope God forgives me for passing these lies for so long...

[@ladrac198]

I LOVED Dr. Ritner's righteous anger throughout this video at all the apologetic arguments and how ridiculous they are.

[@barbaraanderson670]

So, Joseph Smith basically made this all up. He had just enough knowledge, of his time, to fabricate something that sounded reasonable to those people who did not know anything. The fact that his sexual urges motivated this level of fantasy is truly mind boggling. He had a lot of time on his hands. The decision he made to get even with his enemies, the creation of a church that would allow him to steal women, girls and convince other like minded white men of his authority through an elaborate charade, is laudable, if it wasn't so tragic. He had to have been psychopathic. Sociopathic. Which one is most accurate? Still very tragic. When considering the lives the church, as any monolithic authoritarian patriarchal institution, has destroyed and continues to play with in a horrific way the lives of its current members. It is terrifying. People will see this. They may ignore it to start with. Eventually, they will have to deal with it.

[@MilordeLeo]

Have you seen the last video with LDS Discussions on this channel? It becomes clear what you just said: Joseph Smith composed the Book of Mormon for the audience of his day

[@binren3984]

What a fantastic interview, having Dr. Robert Ritner . Great video

[@CarolinaKley]

I am literally planning a career in Dr. Ritner’s specific field - Ptolemaic Egypt - and pursue Mormon studies as a hobby. I didn’t know who Dr. either was when I started watching this interview, and I got excited because I didn’t know Chicago was such a prestigious school for that, I figured “wow, I might even study under him”. It’s very unfortunate that Dr. Ritner passed at 68 when nowadays people live through their 80s. I will look into the Chicago program anyway. Mormon Stories helps people out in several other areas not related to Mormonism 😂

[@Playinz4kidz]

Really great amazing podcast, hi I’m a single father of a daughter who is 6 I left the church when she was 2as I started to see the limited life she would lead if I stayed in. Would be great to chat. Still really Struggling with it after 4 years. Life totally changed no friends anymore and find it hard to trust my own mind after so much manipulation. Love from the uk 🇬🇧

[@nomadpurple6154]

Hang on in there...religion is not the only manipulative force out there, but as someone who has been tricked by others, I know it is there fault not mine. I know that most people have been deceived in some way by some one at some time, but nobody openly admit it (esp in UK). Please read/watch as much stuff on many many subjects and love your imagination. Ask questions and you can learn to trust your judgement again. Suggestions that can help people are MIND (mental health) forums, Meetups and finding tame subjects (like TVshows) to chat with colleagues at work.

[@alejandromartin8347]

Does the Mormon church and family members shun people that leave it??

[@fabulous_finn7810]

@@alejandromartin8347 technically Church leadership at the top encourages members to continue to keep people around and what not, but in practice every local leader (usually using info and data given them from higher ups) will not only allow but encourage members to shun others. At least in the Utah/Idaho/Arizona area.

[@katrina3670]

@@alejandromartin8347 fortunately no one in my family have shunned me. I credit this to my grand mother. She was raised Catholic and converted as an adult, so she had her birth family who weren’t Mormon. And I have cousins who aren’t Mormon and my grandmother lived us all the same. She really set the tone for the family.

[@grantbeck9228]

@@katrina3670in my family I have been shunned. In rural Arizona the church is very us vs them. In group out group. We were still related to non members and would be friendly with them when we saw them, but we didn’t keep close relations because they were non members. They were outsiders. They were dangerous. I’m so sorry to my non member family members that I behaved that way

[@MaxwellsUnearthly]

What a great show!. We have John, RFM, Dr. Robert Ritner, only Bill was missing. Seriously it was so good. Thank you for setting this up. I truly hope Dr. Robert Ritner gets the life-saving procedure that he needs, sending good vibes your way Dr, and to all.

[@BGCflyer]

The holy grail of Joseph Smiths inability to translate

[@KTPurdy]

The only reason why the BoM isn't as equally compelling as because the gold plates don't exist.

[@zacharyriley4122]

inability to make up convincing bullshit you mean.

[@lauraoverstreet9987]

Look up the kinderhook plates!! It's REALLY FUNNY.

[@thechunksmonks]

This session is amazing. I have learned a lot. I was especially happy to hear the Egyptian story of a demi God who will be the savior of all. Makes me believe that religions steal ideas from all other religions. Its crazy.

[@rattlesnake1218]

before the tower of Babel, all had the same religion (or the part they liked!) which they took with them.

[@murielmcgregor4766]

Thank you so much Dr. Ritner! As a student of the Classics, I greatly appreciate a scholar calling out what ancient culture/religion was like. I get extremely tired of contemporaries attempting to interpret the past through a modern (Christian) lens. Keep up the amazing work!

[@maxfrank13]

John, you continue to outdo yourself and I stand all amazed at your scholarly conversations and supernal guests. Thank you. This must be as good as it gets. And I hope Dr. Ritner-my new favorite scholar-has received, or soon shall receive, the medical intervention he requires. 🙏

[@abracadanielle9647]

I think this is my favorite interview yet! Extremely interesting. It was helpful for me to SEE the images as they were being explained. I cannot wait for the rest! Love from your neighbors in Sandy

[@zaboomafia]

We need Dr. Ritner on this planet!

[@myrnaeberhardt4993]

Fascinating, what a loss to our world it has been to lose this brilliant man.

[@atphoenix2020]

Your talking about pyramids in 2nd grade brought back fond memories of studying Egypt in 4th grade. Made a pryamid and a mummy. Got to go to "The City," on class field trip to Metropolitan Museum of Art and was fascinated by the exhibit. You have just started your background. This podcast will be incredible - looking forward to watching.

[@nerdnul]

Very well done. A logical display of the gross failure of Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham. Thank you for a most scholarly walk through the sad history that is LDS and Smith's con props. I have watched several sincere efforts by LDS practitioners to defend the BoA's facsimiles, and find them entertaining but pathetic. These videos will likely serve as a guidepost for LDS captives seeking the truth. Again, thank you.

[@gregrichens5536]

A wonderful, kind man and scholar. You will be missed!

[@jessestone4688]

Amazing information! Thank you Dr. Ritner for your hard work and dedication. You have set the record straight. The truth will always be revealed eventually!

[@PopGoesTheology]

2:07:28 By the late 18th Dynasty, canopic jars had come to feature the 4 sons of Horus - each of whom, while protecting a specific organ, was himself protected by a companion goddess. They were: *5* *Qebehsenuef* (protected the intestines) protected by Serqet. *6* *Duamutef* (protected the stomach) was protected by Neith. *7* *Hapi* (protected the lungs) was protected by Nephthys. *8* *Imsety* (protected the liver) was protected by Isis.

[@Kurt843]

Awesome podcast. Thanks for getting on such great guests!!!

[@povfwm12]

I just don’t understand how one could listen to this podcast and then continue to believe in the Book of Abraham. Honestly, can a Mormon please explain this to me?

[@markh.harris9271]

@Tyner Waltman ... happy to. For the TBM LDS (true believing mormon) believers, their "Testimony" is the most important aspect of their high demand religion. This "Testimony" is not based on fact, it is based on feelings (the burning in the bosom) and also based on cultic repetition (pray and testimony meetings). There are five points of the typical mormon Testimony (yes, they are all identical) and this is programmed. Mormons are instructed to NOT read or view anything like this podcast (anti-mormon material) that might destroy the believer's Testimony (text book cult control). Consequently, most TBM believers never see this podcast in the first place, and seldom ever hear or see any of this evidence to consider in any format. Almost without exception (truly) two things occur when a mormon believer actually considers this evidence in some format-- it creates for them a "faith crisis" (sometimes referred to as their shelf cracking) in which the following two things happen: 1) they leave the LDS church, and 2) they throw the baby out with the bath water, and they become atheist. For evangelical Christ followers (like myself) this is a very sad story. Full disclosure mandates that I tell you that I am an ex-mormon from the Temple Lot Hedrikite cult from Independence MO. Most of my entire biological family are STILL Temple Lot believers... which is quite different than LDS Salt Lake City TBM believers.

[@markh.harris9271]

@@paulgregersen3570 (bologna) The BOA is absolute bologna, 100% utter nonsense without even a modicum of authenticity; complete tripe.

[@heyman537]

So Tyner, what are your religious beliefs, if any? Please tell us so someone can blast them out of the water. Some people, including you, are spiritually blind and are holding out their puny arms trying to stop the church of God from filling the earth. And it will fill the earth.

[@markh.harris9271]

@@paulgregersen3570 I'm sorry Paul, but your comment shows complete ignorance. The issue for Dr Ritner ( or any scholar ) is NOT whether the depiction is "real", but whether the depiction represents what we KNOW about ancient Egypt. And the bottom line (since you're not paying attention) is that Joseph Smith Jr did NOT have a clue about ancient Egypt, much less about its language. Dr. Ritner has spent his life studying ancient Egypt and the writing systems of the ancient Egyptians (including depictions like the book of the dead, and the book of breathings) and is able to definitively prove beyond even a shadow of doubt that Joseph Smith Jr was a fraud and a plagiarizing liar. And by association, since the Mormon church theology is based on Joseph Smith's bogus understanding of ancient Egypt, the Mormon church is ALSO a fraud and a plagiarizing liar.

[@heyman537]

@@paulgregersen3570 Am I missing something here? When have I attacked you? I am a latter-day saint myself.

[@julianhermanubis6800]

Dr. Ritner smart. Joseph Smith dum, dum, dum, dum, dum...

[@krystololsen2318]

I'm so excited for the next episode

[@bobaseth1]

Kudos to the late Dr. Ritner for correctly pronouncing “forte” as “fort” and not incorrectly as “for-tay”! 3:21:45

[@meganmills4025]

John D. Your interviewing skills are incredible.

[@butwhatifitsreal287]

The apologists can only say at this point that BOA was inspired information, not translated information. Joseph went out of his way to let everyone know that he definitely translated the BOA by the power of God. It was to be a huge evidence of his prophetic prowess. Everyone should go read the BOA, its a quick read. It will become abundantly clear that it is a fabrication.

[@bryanpoulsen8969]

Everyone should watch this. So great.

[@anubis9139]

3:29:30 I would put my arms out to bless the Dr. Ritner

[@JeffDayPoppy]

Around 2:33:00, Raukeeyang is the Hebrew word for Firmament - Raqiya' (see strongs 7549) Joseph always uses "ng" or "gn" to translate the letter Ayin, which is a glottal stop sound. Shaumahyeem is the Hebrew word for Skies - Shamayim (strongs 8064.). Joseph was studying Hebrew in Kirtland under Joshua Seixas, and there was actually a Hebrew primer produced for the theological school at Kirtland. It especially covered Genesis chapter 1, and these words come straight from there.

[@barweinig415]

Hi, from the how-to heretic podcast. They praised these interviews and I totally agree. I'm looking forward to the following two! Thank you.

[@mlebrooks]

Could you post a 20 minute highlight video because I don't have 3 hrs of free time. Otherwise I would still go to church.

[@dm-dk5lm]

It's worth the time. Three hours is not a lot of time to understand the why's to the what's.

[@kapkone]

You spend 3 hrs in church?

[@dm-dk5lm]

@@kapkone that's just on Sunday (though I believe it just got shortened to two hours on Sunday recently). Then you have mid-week activities/meetings, plus visiting other members for "ministering" once a month, plus prep time for any "calling" or job you might do at church like teaching a children's class weekly (all volun-told unpaid positions), plus any time on service projects/feeding missionaries/etc, plus going to the temple on a regular basis (could be weekly, monthly, etc but each trip is at least 3 hours including travel time), plus daily personal scripture study, plus seminary classes for high school kids.....the list goes on and on. And don't forget to make it all work with raising a large family, their schooling, your job, maintaining a happy marriage, and keeping a smile glued to your face. It literally takes over every available moment in your life really quick if you're doing everything that church leadership says you should be doing.

[@ikaties1]

Beautiful soul! RIP, and thank you for the dedication to your subject matter.

[@quinataanthony]

WOW! Great interview Dr. Dehlin!

[@xyz7572]

Thank you for this amazing interview. I knew basically nothing about Mormonism before this show, but this is intensely fascinating. I’m sorry to hear Dr Ritner passed. May he rest well until he is greeted by Anubis in the afterlife.

[@hbendzulla8213]

It’s really interesting what people can and will accept as truth until they can hear all the facts. 🤔 very interesting podcast. Congratulations

[@huffpappy]

What's even more interesting is how some people when shown the facts won't accept them but rather cling to the lies of a conman.

[@mdawgwhite]

@@huffpappy this is what blows my mind! My brother who I thought was someone who was realistic and doesn't even attend church anymore still says that the church will never admit that JS didn't translate the book of Abraham correctly

[@renegade_of_funk]

1:26:20 I’m VERY surprised the mic is still working after this drop.

[@Jupiter_Crash]

***INTRODUCTIONS*** 00:00:00 Introduction to video 00:02:24 Introduction to RFM 00:03:06 Introduction to Dr. Ritner ***DR. RITNER’S BACKGROUND*** 00:04:50 Contact info for kidney donation (Dana McClain 312-695-0828) 00:05:21 Official title 00:06:00 Educational background 00:06:35 University of Chicago’s importance to the field of Egyptology 00:10:15 Growing up in Houston 00:14:25 Current profession 00:16:31 Parent’s view of his career choice 00:20:00 Training background and specialty 00:25:25 Professional relationship with Claus Behr 00:26:40 Professional connection with Mormon apologist John Gee ***HISTORY*** 00:28:28 Modern Egyptology begins with Napoleonic Conquest 1798 00:29:25 Description de l’Egypte 00:30:30 Rosetta Stone deciphered 1820’s 00:34:15 Mummies shipped to NY to find buyer 00:34:51 Traveling salesman Michael Chandler acquires mummies 00:35:35 Sales pitch of Michael Chandler 00:36:18 Interesting Segway into Mormonism 00:36:40 Ohioan’s knowledge of Egypt ~1830 00:37:30 Any theories where “Reformed Egyptian” might come from? 00:40:50 Is “Reformed Egyptian” related to any stage of Egyptian language? 00:42:41 RFM’s apologist view of “Reformed Egyptian” 00:44:25 BOM language development proposal vs historical fact 00:47:44 Are Egyptian and Hebrew languages related? 00:49:15 Smoking gun of “Reformed Egyptian” 00:56:27 D&C Section 21 Joseph’s special powers 00:58:12 Historical context of items Michael Chandler brought to Kirkland 01:03:12 Documents used in translation of BOA 01:11:11 Egyptian influences => Masonic influences => Mormon ceremonies? 01:14:16 Timeline of Abraham’s potential existence vs timeline of BOA scrolls 01:24:35 Historical absurdity of Abraham Chapter 1 verse 20 01:29:37 Could Abraham have migrated to Egypt and written BOA? 01:32:01 The Church’s BOA Essay states papyri has no correlation with Abraham 01:35:22 Logic says “case closed!” ***TRANSITION INTO A DEEPER DIVE OF BOOK OF ABRAHAM *** 01:36:40 Apologists’ contortion of documents is unscholarly 01:37:52 Contact info for kidney donation (Dana McClain 312-695-0828) 01:39:03 Brief history of mummies and scrolls purchased by Joseph 01:42:45 PSA: Please reference visuals if listening to audio only version ***FACSIMILE 1*** 01:43:28 Facsimile 1 01:43:44 Dr. Ritner describes Facsimile 1 as shown 01:46:55 RFM explains Joseph’s claims about Facsimile 1 01:48:02 Dr. Ritner’s analysis of “The Original” source text 01:54:10 Comparison of Joseph’s Facsimile vs an undamaged reconstruction 01:59:09 Joseph’s interpretation vs Modern Egyptological Interpretation 01:59:50 #1 02:02:06 #2 02:03:31 #3 02:05:00 #4 02:07:42 #5 #6 #7 and #8 02:07:55 Problems with Joseph naming canopic jars 02:08:42 John Gee’s “Four Sons of Horus” concludes Joseph was correct 02:09:42 Dr. Ritner’s response to John Gee’s assertions 02:11:38 John Gee leaves out Egyptian names of Horus’ four sons in his paper 02:12:27 #9 02:17:49 #10 02:21:20 Summation of Hugh Nibley’s argument 02:24:00 Did Egyptian theology influence Christian doctrine? 02:28:50 #11 02:29:51 #12 02:32:17 RFM’s commentary on apologetics for Facsimile 1 02:34:26 John Dehlin’s commentary on The Church’s deception 02:37:01 Dr. Ritner’s response to The Church’s deception 02:39:04 John Dehlin quotes Dalin H Oaks about church apologetics 02:40:40 Dr. Ritner’s stance on John Gee 02:41:15 RFM clarifies that Oaks was quoting Austin Farrar 02:42:08 Additional images to help you understand Facsimile 1 02:42:30 Supporting image #1 02:44:52 Line drawing of supporting image #1 02:46:00 Supporting image #2 02:47:00 Supporting image #3 02:52:30 Supporting image #4 from Wikipedia “Four sons of Horus” 02:54:03 Supporting image #5 Book of the Dead 151 02:58:37 RFM “Can four sons represent four cardinal directions?” 02:59:15 Dr. Ritner's response 02:59:28 RFM states apologists’ stance on four sons 03:00:41 Supporting image #6 - John Gee/magical papyrus 03:07:50 Tying image #6 to Mormon apologetics 03:09:20 RFM further explains apologetic connection 03:12:00 Is it reasonable for PhD apologists to attempt Abraham connection? 03:13:25 Dr. Ritner’s response 03:17:00 RFM disappointed in Kerry Muhlstein 03:17:45 Lion Couch scene video clip with Kerry Mulhstein 03:18:46 Dr. Ritner’s response to Kerry Mulhstein video clip 03:24:45 Dr. Ritner speaks to Mormon Stories listeners 03:26:24 John Dehlin’s closing 03:31:21 END

[@mormonstories]

Wow

[@mormonstories]

Thank you Jupiter.

[@ron1313]

Dr. Ritner mentioned 20 lectures on the Egyptian religion. Does anyone know if they are online previously recorded. Or can we pay for the courses? Sorry to hear he has passed, seemed like a wonderful person.

[@HPM503]

Sad to see that Dr. Ritner passed away not long after this video. So glad John was able to do this interview before he passed.

[@SteveNewbrough-Guitar]

I love watching Mormon Stories and especially this episode. Why was the pitch of the audio lowered for this episode?? It's really distracting! The info is fantastic but everybody sounds like Darth Vader...

[@dl1130]

Want to wish Dr. Ritner the best with his health battle. You are a very well spoken and most knowledgeable individual. Much credibility. Thank you for taking the time to help us all become more educated about the Book of Abraham. May God bless 🙏.

[@marthashepherd341]

The World has lost such a Fantastic Fountain of knowledge with Dr. Ritner's passing. ❤🙏❤

[@azteclos]

The church is so exact about records, yet there is no record of reformed Egyptian to compare or reference Joseph smith translations. They pay church spin doctors to reach for explanations.

[@sergiomedian2646]

As ex mormon I am more than happy 🤗to watch this thank you so much for this interview.Now I can definitely say I am more happy to be out of this cooperation business money making💸💵💰industry religion.

[@MikeOria]

Oh man, Dr Ritner cracks me up. Love his contribution to this discussion. Sorry to hear he passed recently.

[@superscott597]

At 2:18:35, Joseph is misunderstanding the symbol of the table as an object and instead thinks it’s a person. It looks like a stick figure of a man with his arms outspread, with a little triangular head (atop the table), covered by a tree, with two other people behind him (the two wine bottles). That stood out it to me pretty quickly.

[@markh.harris9271]

brilliant! This is so much like a "Dr Robert Ritner Master Class".... love it sir, thank you so much !

[@anubis9139]

I can confirm that that is in fact me in the image.

[@exmodeadpool]

Is there any update on Dr.Ritner's condition? I'm 2 hours and 17 minutes into the video and I grew to like the guy! Hope he's ok!

[@shawnstatzer3137]

Absolutely insightful, and my life is much richer because of it.

[@noahlee2470]

Does johns voice sound distorted?

[@bossendenwoodconvict]

No, they just speak differently in America.

[@zaboomafia]

His voice is getting deeper because he is becoming like Satan. Muahahahha

[@susanaanderson3150]

Just watch this episode. I hope Dr. Ritner is doing well. This was a very interesting and informative episode. Dr. Ritner is brilliant!

[@mormonstories]

Dr. Ritner passed away.

[@wampaku2]

Was John using a voice changer?

[@mormonstories]

Tech glitch.

[@wampaku2]

@@mormonstories 👍

[@allen4659]

Thank you Dr. Ritner for becoming the expert Egyptologist that you are. Thank god you studied this instead of engineering. We love the fine and rigorous study you have applied to Egyptology. Your the best. Sincerely....your dedicated fans.

[@sidvicious2845]

Excellent podcast! Thanks for all you do!

[@redcurrantart]

Was he ever able to get his kidney? He seems like such an awesome person and so versed in his subject. He seems like one of those people who would be such a great loss for the world to lose.

[@shches8480]

I'd recommend checking out the following subreddit: Update on Robert Ritner --> www.reddit.com/r/mormon/comments/nmiuaa/update_on_robert_ritner_kidney_transplant/

[@deskjockie4948]

Dr. Ritner passed away on July 25, 2021.

[@tuckerallen1421]

@@deskjockie4948 and it seems that he passed due to leukemia, and not directly because of the need for a kidney transplant.

[@susangroom960]

Heartbreaking. Such a major intellect. And a kind face.

[@tewtravelers9586]

We're very fortunate to have this interview.

[@burrellbikes4969]

When can we hear that story he briefly mentions about Christianity being formed in Alexandria?!?! That sparked a ton of interest in hearing more. Anyone have a good source for learning about that?

[@davefletch3063]

Christians were first called Christians in Antioch.

[@chaseparker2124]

I wish I would have been here when it was live, when I was in Egypt the tour guide pointed out a reference to Abraham sculpted in Luxor. He made it clear it's the only reference to any of the patriarchs in all of Egypt. Just curious what would have been made of that.

[@chaseparker2124]

Also I wish I had seen this before going there to follow up with the tour guide to see what time frame that inscription dated too.

[@timhazeltine3256]

A note of caution, often, guides are not a reliable source for historical information.

[@lauraoverstreet9987]

I found a new hero! Thank you Dr. Rittner!! As an amateur student of ancient history. I'd like to point out; that the 4quarters are generally shown as the 4 zodiac signs: the bull (taurus)the eagle(scorpio) a man, (aquarius) and a lion. Not a baboon, or jackal! God bless you dr.rittner! I only have one working kidneys so I'm with you in spirit..💖

[@whatsgoingonwhy9096]

Based on voices and the lack of a picture of the third guy, this sounds like a discussion between the host, an egyptologist, and Marc Maron about mormanism and egyptian texts.

[@rattlesnake1218]

right-on!

[@chuckkv]

It's probably worth noting that, according to Lucy Mack Smith, Joseph used his seer stone to see the missing portions of the text. This is attested to where the manuscripts of the "translation" effort show the fringe writing being transcribed, and where they're missing (rotted/damaged/missing), unrelated characters are inserted, and then the proper characters are picked up again on the other side of the gaps. I think we can logically and safely assume the drawings would have been filled in/altered while using a seer stone as well.

[@zaboomafia]

Your voice sounds deeper than usual!

[@MikeOria]

Ritner's best line, "... The drawing is a fabrication, and everything spun off of it is a lie on a lie on ignorance...I hope that was clear."

[@matthewakian2]

There's some great videos on this channel.

[@holladaytimes]

I have a question. Basically, is it possible that Joseph Smith removed parts of the papyrus himself? Edit: Never mind, they answer it around 2:50:00. Unlikely, and probably naturally occurring damage. Around 1:50:40 they mention that the papyrus is damaged and the remainder of the picture has been drawn in. They state that the papyrus had been damaged BEFORE Smith bought it. How do they know that? Is it possible that the papyrus (which was almost certainly extremely fragile and at least SOMEWHAT damaged) could have been ripped for the express purpose of removing parts of the image that didn't fit JS's Theology? Do we have records of what the image did or didn't contain when it was purchased? Or are we just assuming that no sane person would spend thousands of dollars on an ancient and irreplaceable relic just to mutilate it for their own personal gain?

[@levifisk6401]

Not only does JS make up the Mormon religion, he defiles Egyptian / human culture and history with his lies. These are beautiful stories and histories which JS has simply diminished.

[@LibRoseITM]

I've tried to find the myth that Dr. Ritner talks about at 2:25:15, the closest I can find is not of a male pharaoh but of a female pharaoh and is found in the Egyptian section of this Wikipedia article for those who are interested en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births I would LOVE to get either confirmation that this is the story that Dr. Ritner is referring to, or if I'm wrong, a link to the actual myth he refers to if anyone has it! It's very interesting!

[@whothinksforme]

Skip to 50:01 to address the first major issue.

[@azteclos]

Could Joseph smith being a Freemason, be why he chose Egyptian?

[@christopherfelt7081]

Very enlightening and informative. Lots of content to analyse.