Drúwaith Iaur - The Mysterious Wilderness of the South

In this video, we will be talking about Drúwaith Iaur, a mysterious wilderness to the west of Gondor. What was going on there? What did it look like? And did anyone live there?
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[@Gray-el1nh]

this is the first lotr video on youtube where i didn’t know the location it was being talked about so i am IMPRESSED- love your vids keep it up

[@romanmoravcik7048]

There is more wilderness in middle-earth than actual civilisation

[@General12th]

For all the valor and glory of the previous ages -- for how much greater their people were and how grand their arts and architecture -- it sure feels like most of Middle Earth was a barren, dangerous wasteland until people started settling it more during the fourth age.

[@vulture4117]

in real life too

[@thomasalvarez6456]

Just like our planet used to be.

[@Diegoromir]

I see this more as a sign of the population decline of the late Third Age, after centuries of war and a Great Plague that wiped out most of the populations of the great kingdoms, which never fully recovered from that event. I personally believe that there were several settlements that Tolkien did not mention that at the end of the Third Age were nothing more than ruins, shadows of a Golden Age where civilization thrived.

[@TheRealMycanthrope]

Sounds great

[@Uncle_Fred]

I would also add that Drúwaith Iaur would make a workable refuge of last resort had Sauron won. It's remote yet within reach of Gondor. It's protected in the west by the ocean, and in the south and east by mountains with no history of Goblin infestation. To the North, it's protected by a major freshwater river. It has caves and a population of men extremely hostile to Orcs, and a possible settlement of Elves nearby. This is about as perfect a refuge from Sauron as you can find on the map of Middle Earth. A small remnant of Gondorians could survive a very long time there in an age dominated by Sauron.

[@sionefinaulahi9879]

What do you mean by a possible settlement of elves nearby?

[@acrustykrab]

​@@sionefinaulahi9879just that the area seems like a nice place for a hidden settlement like Rivendell

[@jamesgwoodwork]

Sounds a bit like the Bay of Balar in the first age. That didn't go well either.

[@Uncle_Fred]

@@jamesgwoodwork Yes, I think they would be flushed out eventually. However, if they were wise, they'd operate much like Lothlorien and keep to themselves, allowing no intruders to escape. It could buy them a few generations of relative peace.

[@WolfetoneRebel1916]

@@Uncle_Fred Lothlorien or Rivendell could not have existed as they did without Gondor holding back Mordor.

[@seedbarrett6853]

I'd love to hear about Eryn Vorn

[@tomk1055]

Yes!

[@PiraticalBob]

I've thought a time or two of writing a fanfic about the Druedain of Druwaith Iaur - - I envision Maglor Son of Feanor dwelling there in a cave part of the year, and other times he wanders up and down the coastline; he is known to the Druedain, and trades/barters with them for his simple needs, on rare occasions making music for them or serving them as a healer, since his knowledge of Elven healing surpasses their own more primitive skill.

[@ciaranirvine]

I like that idea - Maglor roams the desolate coasts between Eryn Vorn and Andrast lamenting his lost Silmaril. So there are - very rare and disputed - alleged sightings of Maglor down the millennia, but nobody knows for sure if he still lives (apart from the Druedain, who aren't telling)

[@capuchinhelper]

I imagine a time in the Fourth Age when another surviving Balrog is found, and with everyone else gone to Valinor, Maglor would be the only remaining dude powerful enough to defeat it.

[@cavetroll666]

thanks for the video i hope Lotro adds this one day

[@rofald]

Love hearing about the more obscure places in Middle-Earth and how you can draw such logical and sensible conclusions about the nature of these places when there is so little written about them in Tolkien's books. In addition to Druedain, I wonder if Avari or Nandorin elves also inhabited that region. The Silmarillion does mention Avari living in the wild southern forest of Taur-in-Duinath and Nandorin elves in Ossiriand in Beleriand, so it's possible that there might have been Avari or Nandorin settlements all along the remote western regions near the coast. These elves might have have also taught the Druedain their woodcraft which would explain the almost magical way they could avoid detection in forests. Two remote and obscure regions I'd be interested in learning more about are Avathar and Araman, the uninhabited southern and northern parts of the continent of Aman. There's little enough written about either place, but what there is seems to indicate that the Valars' influence in maintaining an uncorrupted land did not extend to all parts of their continent.

[@coreyander286]

It's interesting how Tolkien uses "woodcraft" to mean "skills used to avoid detection in forests". Wouldn't have ever expected it to be used in any other way than carpentry. I guess Naked Snake from MGS3 has good woodcraft.

[@DarthGandalfYT]

Avari may have lived there before the Third Age, but we're told that no Avari lived west of the Misty Mountains during the Third Age so that would rule Druwaith Iaur out.

[@rofald]

@@DarthGandalfYT Thanks for the information.😀

[@paulraines9635]

The underdevelopment of the Isen Delta always struck me as odd.

[@ChrisVillagomez]

I love these kinds of videos, I didn't know that bit about Saruman's forces running into the Druedain after the First Battle of the Fords of Isen

[@PenguinofD00mxxx]

My favorite part about looking at maps of Arda/ Middle Earth is looking at the more obscure places and imagining what life would be like. Or what stories may have taken place, that we are just not privy to.

[@ZephyrOptional]

My favorite places to go in my mind while looking at the maps would be Ossiriand & the Dwarven kingdoms of Belegost & Nogrod & the birth places of men & elves, Hildorien & Cuivienen. I had such a vivid picture in my mind of Dorthonion I had to sketch a mountain forest landscape with a small, worried and wary people moving through the trees. Love my ragged old Fonstad Atlas!

[@dominus1444]

I would love to see some videos on merp lore and other fan created sources. There is essentially no one on KZbin covering it. There is definitely some crazy wacky stuff in there but most of that can be ignored in favor of the tons of amazing worldbuilding. I would particularly love to see a video on Bellakar.

[@DarthGandalfYT]

I've actually been heavily considering it because I do love some of the MERP stuff.

[@q0w1e2r3t4y5]

Drew-wayth yah-oor, not ee-yah-(glottal stop)-her

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

*"waith" has the same diphtong/vowel sounds as "white" or "why", not as "wait" or "way". Also, the stress is on the first syllables of both words. So, DREW-whyth YAH-oor

[@user-yy5xs6xj7r]

What about the cape of Andrast itself? In some places it is described as a part of Gondor, but in others it is said that the western border of Gondor was the river Lefnui, and all areas beyond it were considered parts of Druwaith Iaur. Also there are no warriors from Andrast that came to fight for Minas Tirith (while there were reinforcements from Anfalas), so it seems that at least in the end of the Third Age Andras was at least de-facto independent. Since there are some mentions of Numenorian bases in Andrast, I doubt it was completely wild, though. So a semi-independent lordship inhabited by mixed people seemes the most likely situation there (similar to Isengard before it was given to Saruman).

[@einfachignorieren6156]

Andreas is part of gondor de jure not de facto, there is the fortress of thorogrondost And ras morthil a retreat for the kings of old, everything else is wilderness or local clans

[@maximus3160]

@@einfachignorieren6156 WHAT?

[@halokiller031]

I just noticed that Anfalas has the name (langstrand) which is swedish for long beach. 10/10 Tolkien

[@thomassaxon8254]

It's definitely places like this that let imagination run wild in Middle-earth. Truly you could have nearly anything in there trying to coexist with the Druedain.

[@ryanstephenson7312]

Druwaith Iaur would be a good place to look for the Entwives

[@thecappeningchannel515]

They were killed in the Brown Lands during the war between sauron and elves.

[@klhaldane]

@@thecappeningchannel515 Unless they were able to flee, but had to go so far the Ents never located them again.

[@anti-liberalismo]

I always conquer Druwaith Iaur first in DAC when i play with Gondor, best decision i ever do while holding the Anduin. Also what a gigachad voice, Mr Darth Gandalf

[@joshman531]

Another obscure location maybe worth a video is Taur-im Duinath in the very south of the map of Beleriand, but I don't remeber it ever being mentioned in the Silmarilion.

[@gnarlynarly1350]

An in-depth video on the middel men would be cool the only ones we get sort of alot of information on is the dunlendings but even then not that much. Keep up the good work

[@user-rr2ui5dx5y]

Can you do a video on Middle Earth Role Playing lore? They have really cool tales about far harad like Ciryatandor

[@coreyander286]

It's hard to find info about MERP lore. Even when I find uploads of the world map, none have high enough resolution for me to read the tiny labels of regions in the original parts of the map.

[@HeraldofHelios]

Great video mate. Would be awesome to see a video on Harondor (South Gondor). Perhaps it had scant Gondorian settlements; but like Osgiliath, it changed hands between Gondor and Harad over the years

[@mdefoe28]

It is strange how apparently there wasn't any gondorian settlement in Andrast, despite its strategic location controlling the sea route and its safety from outside threats.

[@johnt.inscrutable1545]

Great video on a people I wish we had more stories about. Also, excellent music under the narration. Vids about DIFFERSNT PARTS OF belariand.

[@PeculiarNotions]

I'm always a fan of these lesser known regions.

[@fgf4973]

So interesting to see how diverse the race of men is. High men, Middle men, Hobbits, Druedain, Troll men... would be cool to see more expansion of their lore

[@backwashjoe7864]

Druwaith Iaur is definitely a drinking game that I regret!

[@albarron4022]

You are murdering the pronunciation bud

[@apstrike]

I'd like to buy a vowel, please.

[@CatnicImprover]

Dorwinion - It's not marked on less detailed maps but is to the north west of the Sea of Rhun and is supposedly where the wine that the people of Lake Town shipped to the Wood Elves came from, so it seems like it was inhabited by settled and civilised people.

[@Marcotonio]

That fills a big gap in my knowledge about the area, didn't remember anything about it (if it's mentioned in Silmarillion/LOTR). Still, the whole South of Gondor is still quite foggy. We read about the hosts that came from these regions to help in the war, but we never got much detail about what is in there. Rohan to the North, Minas Tirith to the East, Drúwaith Iaur to West, and then what's going on South of the Ered Nimrais? Any History, invasions, culture, peoples in there? My mind says "half-elf swan prince with blue banner", but it's probably an amalgamation of 3 different things. Man, I should re-read the whole thing.

[@ciaranirvine]

Pretty much spot on - you are thinking of Imrahil, Prince of Dol Amroth. His family were alleged to be part Elf (descended from one of the companions of Nimrodel, I think? Though that could just be legend) and Legolas confirms he has at least some Elven blood. He and his Swan Knights were Gondor's elite Heavy Cavalry. Technically/legally with Denethor dead and Faramir incapacitated, Imrahil was next in the chain of command and in charge of Gondor for the Last Debate and march on the Black Gate, though personally he deferred to Aragorn. The southern region of Gondor seems to be quite populous and developed, but yeah we never really get much detail or "local colour" apart from Dol Amroth - and some brief snippets from the Second Age about the great Numenorean port city of Pelargir, and an ancient Elven haven at Edhellond

[@Marcotonio]

@@ciaranirvine Woah, my memory is better than I expected, nice. Thanks for the detailed answer! As for population, the feeling we get from the way Gondor is presented is that 80% of the population is in Minas Tirith and then some backwater nobles come to help from the southern region, but would it be correct to assume it's quite the opposite, with the capital being a small portion of Gondor's population?

[@ciaranirvine]

@@Marcotonio Yeah that's my take. Minas Tirith seems to be more of a fortress-town and also one in decline - Pippin notices lots of empty homes. The southern lords didn't send many troops to the battle but that's because they were keeping most of their their own forces on the coast, expecting a massive invasion by the Corsairs - which Aragorn unexpectedly defeated with the Army of the Dead. I think there was a line in the Last Debate that now the Corsair threat was over, those south coast troops could be redeployed to Minas Tirith, and that by the next week the city would actually be better defended than before the battle started - even with Aragorn leading his entire army north to the Black Gate. So the south coast region must be pretty populous and prosperous and able to field decent armies. I don't think Gondor could have lasted as the power it was for so many years if it was 80% Minas Tirith, it must be the other way round

[@yapyap333]

First! Love your work.

[@Byenie0912]

As a DAC TW player, that area is the worst place to hold on to. It has no population nor any castle to recruit stronger units If anything starts coming from the north, it’s over

[@joshthomasmoorenew]

Would you consider doing a video on the Barrow Blades, as i've seen a few misconseptions about them, like them breaking the Witch King's non-exsistant Invunrabilty spell, also they seem like a really intresting topic for a video, plus its an excuse to talk about parts of Arnor which is always nice.

[@istari0]

Great video. If I had ever read anything on this, I forgot it some time ago. Maybe they could have hidden the One Ring there; Sauron would have never found it! 🙃

[@beyondthewall1501]

I always pronounced the name as: drew-eye-th iyawr (English pronounciation above, save for rolling r:s and i:s always pronounced as "ee").

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

Yawr, not iyawr. Just two syllables, no initial "ee".

[@bokakev]

Every other channel does the same old topics over and over. This channel makes originality look easy, somehow.

[@dansuciu733]

you nailed it again, keep doing the same,

[@Callisto_Arcas]

I had always assumed Iaur was pronounced I(ee)-aur(hour/our). Basing that on the fact that 'au' is usually pronounced like 'hour/our', such as Sauron, Smaug, Taur-nu-Fuin, Anfauglith, etc.

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

It's a "y" sound as in "yes", not "ee" as in "eeny meeny". YAH-oor. Two syllables, first one stressed.

[@bristleconepine4120]

Suggestion for geography: what were the elevations of the various mountain ranges that we know about? (I can imagine this being a multi-part video, one to do with the mountain ranges in ME at the end of the Third Age, and another to deal with those former mountain ranges, and those outside of ME)

[@deathstroke2697]

I woul like to know more about Taur-im-Duinath. Sounds like a darker Mirkwood.

[@TheLyricalCleric]

I would have imagined it as Ee-YAWR, like the way “SAWYRon” is pronounced in the Lord of the Rings moves.

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

It's just like the "saur" in Sauron, except the first sound is a "y". So not "ee-aur" but "yaur".

[@Dunedainv3]

Darth Gandalf when Obi Wan Saruman pulls up:

[@nathynorthy6916]

How is Gondor "to the west" of Drúwaith Iaur? 1:28

[@CiudadanosdeBien]

Why do you pronounce Iaur as if an h was before the u ?

[@ohmyshou1der]

Drink every time he said Drúwaith Iaur

[@kurosakiichigo7475]

You mean ee aa urr

[@coreyander286]

Drew Eighth Yower. (Yower rhymes with "shower".) That's what I'm going with. Either Yower or E-hour.

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

"Waith" rhymes with "white", not with "eight". "Iaur" indeed has a "y" sound, not a "ee" one. And it's more of a YAH-oor. "A" as in "father", not as in "cat", and then no final "err" sound, you jump from "u" straight to "r".

[@sneakyfred]

Interesting topic, but I found the pronunciation of the area's name so jarring: you get Druedain right, and the "ai" in Druwaith has the same pronunciation (like "eye"); instead Iaur should be something like "yowl" but with an "R" at the end instead of "L" (it has a very a Welsh-like sound, in my opinion!)

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

It's a Sindarin name, and Sindarin is based on Welsh.

[@JorenR]

Next LOTRO expansion in Drúwaith Iaur confirmed

[@jcook693]

Druedain, the indigenous people of Middle Earth

[@alfieingrouille1528]

No not really how it works

[@HBon111]

All men descend from the first men who awoke in the Far East of Middle Earth.

[@jcook693]

Relax guys I just meant they were the first people in the area and then they got moved around a few times

[@ilari90]

Dagoth "Ia" Ur, checks.

[@crowverra5343]

The last desert and the lands of lostladen

[@robmcelwee389]

Wasn't Tharbad there?

[@DarthGandalfYT]

Tharbad was further to the north at the border of Enedwaith and Minhiriath.

[@robmcelwee389]

@DarthGandalfYT was Tharbad part of Arnor or was it abandoned by the Third Age? If I am not mistaken it was hurt by the plague and ruined by floods.

[@SEKreiver]

'Iaur' is pronounced roughly like 'tower'.

[@andrewwarren8474]

I’m curious about if any human populations existed in former Arnor at the time of lord of the rings besides the Rangers and the Breelanders. As far as I can tell, the former northern kingdom was almost completely depopulated. How was Arbor reestablished with no native population?

[@user-yy5xs6xj7r]

There definitely were human populations around Tharbad (the city itself was abandoned, but the surrounding villages probably were not). Tolkien also mentioned hunter-folk in the woods of Minhiriath (maybe related to the people of Eryn Vorn, maybe not). Frodo also said that "Down in the Southfarthing they have had trouble with the Big People, I believe"/ Another populatrion Tolkien mentioned was fisherfolk in the mouths of Isen and Gwathlo (maybe related to the people of DruwaithIaur). There were also the villagers eaten by the trolls in the "Hobbit". It seems that southern refugees in Bree and Saruman's ruffians came from some of those populations.

[@jamaigar]

Lindon and Forlindon are interesting to me. A remnant of the noldor realms of belariand that seems to be mentioned several times and plays a part in wars of the second and third age but it seems to never have been explored or developed

[@obxwave]

Your pronunciation seems a bit unnatural to me…in most real human languages, the initial I sound (I.e. “ee”) would turn into a semivowel Y, so perhaps “yah-ur” would be the result, or even “yaur” pronounced as one syllable.

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

Spot on. And it'd normally be one syllable. "Au" in Sindarin is a diphtong: "a" as in "father" and "w" as in "cow". But, the R at the end forces the diphtong to split, and the "w" becomes an "oo" in a second syllable.

[@1into1]

Allow me to assist you: Drew-eye-th Ee-our (as in the possessive pronoun 'our'). In Tolkien's pronunciations, which he very specifically lists in the Appendices to Return of the King (do look into this for future pronunciation assistance), 'ai' is pronounced 'eye', and 'au' is pronounced 'ow' as in 'ow that hurts'. For example, Sauron is 'Sowron' or 'Souron', not 'Sore-on'.

[@vespasiancloscan7077]

YAH-oor. At the beginning of a word before a vowel, Sindarin "i" is pronounced like the English "y".

[@1into1]

@@vespasiancloscan7077 You are not wrong, but I will be more precise. I used 'ee' to represent the long 'e' vowel, same pronunciation as 'y'. Using a hyphen was intended as a clarification for each phoneme, not to suggest a glottal stop in the middle of the word. A more precise way (I suppose) to represent the word would be 'Yowr' (as in 'your', 'yes', etc.). The 'y' is soft, with emphasis on the 'ow' (au), and a flicked 'r' at the end.

[@whyismyricewet1986]

Bruh just play Minecraft LOTR they have the deuwaith taur biome

[@michaelsmyth3935]

Dru ih wathe eye ur

[@wedgeantillies66]

Certainly sounds like they were a reclusive and yet deadly, woodland and cave dwelling people who occasionally prove to be of use to the free peoples of middle earth in their struggles against the forces of Evil in middle earth.

[@cowboystormchaser]

Ah, gotta love Middle Earth colonialism.