Dragon Age: The Veilguard | Fully Ramblomatic

[@charlessaint7926]

"Hi! You just so happened to walk through the door. You're now the savior of Mankind!" "I'm just looking for donuts."

[@legomaniac213]

TBF, that's how your PC got the plot of Inquisition started too...

[@thegreenassassin553]

@@legomaniac213 Sure, but at least in Inquisition you're quite literally the only being that can stop all the demons from invading because by happenstance you got the mark that closes the portals. Being the only one able to communicate with Solas doesn't quite have the same effect, I feel. Also, admittedly it's been a hot minute since I played Inquisition, but don't you only get properly put in charge when you get to Skyhold, which is a decent bit into the game? At a point where you've already somewhat proven yourself?

[@digitaljanus]

@@thegreenassassin553 You also have highly placed members of the religious hierarchy (though not all of them) claiming you're the Messiah, which helps explain why so many people are willing to flock to your banner, especially right after the church leadership was decapitated in the opening scene.

[@themurmeli88]

@@thegreenassassin553 Which actually also makes the plot less sensical, since you shouldn't allow the one and only person that can close the demon portals, wonder around gettin killed by random bears and bandits, you'd lock that person in a box with airholes and use them like the Qunari use their mages (as in the Qunari before they turned into... whatever this post DA2 re-written garbage is).

[@biggerdoofus]

The Kung Fu Panda method of savior discovery.

[@venomsnekko]

A friend of mine said this game felt like someone's poorly written self-insert D&D campaign, and from what Yahtzee mentions about characters immediately trusting you to take care of their problems, that feels incredibly apt.

[@grayaj23]

The reason why I don't like story-driven RPGs is that you're screwed if you don't like the writing or the characters. I've had similar problmes with the Witcher 3 and the Horizon games: I just do not like the main characters and they say things I would never say. I want to be the story, not be told a story.

[@777Looper]

​ @grayaj23 Understandable, since story is harder to quantify/consistently program than combat. But my first response was "that could apply to any kind of game". If the central draw of the game sucks, the game will suck. But story is harder to predict.

[@Crazy_Gamer_OG]

@@grayaj23 How can you not like Geralt? He says the funniest things sometimes, tho his dialog was a lot better in the first game than the sequels. "You know the best way to take fisstech? Fold back your skin & rub." guy asks, "Where?" Geralt, "Where do you fold back your skin?" His romance with the lady in the lake was also hilarious. Alloy, however, was a really boring character. I totally agree with you on that one.

[@grayaj23]

@@Crazy_Gamer_OG Well that's the whole problem innit. I'm glad you liked the character. I thought he was a tedious a**hole. Tastes differ, and it's OK.

[@ciontachthecthonicchampion3576]

I would bet you real money that's what this is. Unironcally the employees made a D&D campaign with dragoon age as a setting and decided to make a game out of it. It explains literally everything especially the dialogue

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

As a freeloader who doesn't pay for Patreon support, I got extra value out of that insult. Thank you, Yahtzee!

[@thereadersvoice]

I already bust my ass for everything else in life, from paying my mortgage to keeping the family happy. Let me freeload on just this one thing! And, I'm not even truly freeloading, Yahtz; you guys get *some* money just by my watching your videos on KZbin, lol! 😆🤨

[@Halauris]

That's okay this episode wasn't that great in my opinion.

[@SimuLord]

Patreon? I gave at the office. (literally; I watch and superchat the Windbreaker pod on company time!)

[@5_FiveByFive_5]

If it weren't for such critical distinction between us patrons and you freeloaders, we wouldn't get the end-of-video knob-polish giving us that fleetingly fake feeling of superiority! So bless you in turn, good soul, for your ability to both look out for yourself and benefit from others at the same time. ...tbh honest I'm not really sure what the goal of my comment was, as I genuinely support people's choice to watch and not subscribe. I just wanted to chime in I think, and probably also write the words "knob polish." 🤔

[@MissSallyB1]

I preordered the blueray, that's gotta be equivalent to a few months of patreon. JUST LET ME LIVE, YAHTZ!

[@garwynrosser8907]

Credit to inquisition... You didn't become the Inquisitor until part way through the game. After you face off against the BBG and survive. Your character pulls off something of a miracle while saving many lives. Then he becomes inquisitor.

[@Soulflayer20]

Yeah, that was back when Bioware hired decent writers. Not so anymore.

[@Aggrofool]

Even then, the glowy hand thing already put you as special Chosen One from the get go.

[@azeria1]

@@Aggrofool not that special though since you learn it was just a coincidence you just happened to find and interfere with the ritual at the start of the game it could of been anyone with that glowy hand that's actually important story wise since alot of people think you were blessed by the maker when you were just in the right place at the right time

[@DistortedEmpath]

@@azeria1 right place and time to be blessed with glowy hand

[@LadyBlackmoor]

@@DistortedEmpath Or was it truly the Maker's will? Inquisition does not confirm either way, which is what faith is, to believe that there is some force out there that may give you what you need when you need it, without need for proof. Veilguard says it was elves, dummy.

[@jordanvangesen2080]

My opinion has finally arrived

[@alyxgraff9121]

Same. I came here to see Yahtzee give this EA product a Negative review. Edit: Nevermind he gave it a Bland review score.

[@Sonichero151]

Agreed. Finally, the opinion that is about treating the game as it should be...... bland and meh

[@27volt]

@@jordanvangesen2080 Comment section in every Yahtzee video in a nutshell

[@kenmasters7036]

💀💀💀

[@bobalinx8762]

Isn’t a bland score in its own way a negative score?

[@moorjammin]

So everybody treats you like commander Shepard, except there’s no good reason for them to do that since you’re just some guy.

[@Daniel_C_Griffin]

Inquisition did this so much better by you having to start small in the aftermath of a devastating attack that left most systems of power leaderless, and even then you can only start to tackle big issue once the Inquisition has earned its name sorting things out.

[@skycloud5695]

Nah, it's not actually like that lol. This game actually moved away from the 'Chosen One' angle that you had in Inquisition and kinda Origins to an extent. All the factions you meet, you have to constantly work with and get favors from them to help you in return, a bit like Origins which I liked, except without the Origins issue of going 'Here's these papers that automatically forces everyone to help you, but they will all give you some contrived reason why they still can't until do solve all their problems first'.

[@Succi17]

Yeah Shepard was a decorated war hero before the first mission you play them. It would have made the story a lot worse if Shepard was just some recruit on his/her first mission and everyone went "wow you're promoted to specter because you got some knowledge beamed into your head"

[@ultimatedespairgamer6722]

@@skycloud5695 except the accept your help and trust you implicitly on first contact, except the first warden but the game portrays him as evil and wrong for doing so

[@jimbob1862]

​@skycloud5695 I mean to be fair the entire point in Origins and Inquisition of playing up the chosen one role is allow the player to react to it how they want. You can either lean into it or explicitly be uncomfortable with it. Inquisition especially since you're seen as essentially a living figure of divinity. Origins too it means nothing since your Grey Warden has to actually address the big political figures' issues before they give a fuck about you because you're basically a dead man walking until the landsmeet. From what I've seen of Veilguard it seems it tries to mirror the everyman appeal of Hawke but fail because DA2 was actually small scale to emphasise that, I could be wrong on that though.

[@KingBubblesV]

I keep seeing people defend the last act as one of the best in modern games and claiming it redeems an awkward first half. But that just makes think of a quote I saw about an older RPG: "If it takes 15 hours for your game to start getting good, it's not a good game"

[@Caspellaer]

I’d level a similar complaint at games like Persona 5, to be fair

[@lazydroidproductions1087]

Depends, is that 15 hours half the game or under a quarter of it, and how is the gameplay in terms of making up for that

[@johanoskarsson8209]

Oh it's not a matter of "and this excuses the first half being bad", but rather a case of "if one wasn't turned off at the start, one gets rewarded later on".

[@MintyCoolness]

That's a very valid point, and I liked Veilguard...

[@Ol.QWERTY.Bastard]

The game starts good.

[@MJTgameman]

Seeing the up to date Peter Molyneux floating head and not the old stand by that had been used for many years disturbed me and really made me feel my own age for far longer than I cared for.

[@onedeadsaint]

how you feelin' now? your bones, I mean cause you're old 😂

[@Hazrdvulpine]

I like to think the ocelot buggered off as soon as Yartz hit califonia ang got a full time job in Hollywood.

[@Norrikan]

The thing about Origins was that its central theme was 'People are kinda shit, how do we deal with that?' and DA2 carried that forward, albeit on shakier legs. Inquisition started sanding off the edges quite a bit, but Veilguard just straight-up tosses all of that out the window alongside the fleshed-out world and the coherent rules of that world.

[@meej33]

I do not think any game in the series had a "fleshed out world" after Origins. DA2 did not, and Inquisition had the same problem as Veilguard of featuring a number of isolated locations, some of which were quite interesting in themselves but rarely felt connected to anywhere else.

[@inciaradible7144]

@@meej33 I honestly think DA:O lacks in that aspect, considering it's pretty bogstandard fantasy but just with the racism and misogyny dials turned up to 11 in order to sell it as 'dark'. I don't think there's much from that setting that particularly stands out, tbh.

[@Caspellaer]

@@inciaradible7144 True, and for all its worldbuilding problems (it doesn't retcon the racism and the politics like some people have said, but it's very squeamish about showing it) Veilguard actually puts a ton of emphasis on the two fantasy elements of the dragon age setting that ARE somewhat unique: how spirits work and the Blight

[@Garrus1995]

@@inciaradible7144 The story wasn’t simply dark due to some characters being racist. The game literally has a character who is introduced as a wise mentor-like figure straight up kill a guy as soon as said guy tries to opt out of becoming a Grey Warden. Also, just take a look at literally anything the Darkspawn get up to. Origins did a great job of selling how bleak its world could be.

[@kronksstronkstonks6360]

Origins: People suck and are selfish despite impending doom. Use these old documents to legally bind them into helping and learning about the setting through its various faction you must make morally grey choices for. 2: People suck and keep accelerating towards two extremist groups hellbent on fighting one another as a third gets fed up and decides the place could benefit from civilisation whether everyone consents or not. Pick a side that isnt the foreigners. Inquisition: Extremism part 2 magical boogaloo. People still suck but lets ignore most of that because there's demons and a super evil cult to deal with and that means we don't need to focus on the religiously sanctioned lobotomy programme versus magical IRA conflict that has just been put on hold. Also you're basically being considered the herald of Jesus because when the bomb went off you were skimmed across the lake like a skipping stone and some concussed people mistook that as you walking on water. Veilguard: We stopped a bald man from committing Domain Overlap then chose to take full responsibility for it despite having zero expertise beyond schizo visions. Also elven history is treat like common knowledge now despite being lost since forever ago. Because everyone knows elf lore they recognise the danger so there's not much obstructing unity outside of very objective bad guys(tm) and MMO faction metres because we need quests to give the illusion of resistance to a rando coming over and being like hello I am the repair man. We also really loved the art style of Shrek, the dialogue of Marvel fanfiction and the vibe of Honour Amongst Thieves.

[@starkillerkate]

Hardly the biggest problem in this sea of blandness, but it’s really irritating that in a franchise known for importing world states and respecting player choice from multiple games ago…the only choice from the entire series that *remotely* matters in Veilguard is if you took one specific romance path in Inquisition. A romance path only available to 1/8th of the potential race and gender combinations for the Inquisitor, for that matter. It feels like the devs are writing a very specific book for a very specific type of player and get annoyed when you want to play it like an RPG and do/care about something else.

[@jordanthomas5635]

Much as I love the game and got a lot of enjoyment out of it....this is a VERY legitimate criticism. What made us care about the other World ending phenomenon and political storms was that we knew the world, the cultures, the characters, so the stakes were higher each time something went wrong. There was a bit of connection but I think the game really undervalued the playerbase's connection to the previous games.

[@captainsavvy07]

And now absolutely none of those choices from the previous games matter because Veilguard nuked the most important places we visited in them in a text log. Now Bioware don't ever need to worry about catering to any of the first 3 games story choices ever again because they're blighted wastelands. How's Ferelden doing? What's happened in Kirkwall since Anders committed mass murder and Meredith went full red lyrium crazy? How's Orlais after we helped them chose their next leader? Who cares, doesn't matter now.

[@tc5589-1]

Clearly any original bio ware devs are long gone from that company. That was clear from the magenta.

[@cybertramon0012]

As other KZbin reviews have pointed out, it feels way too much like you're playing someone else's playthrough. The game's story, world state, and Rook's character have already been decided by someone, and the best you can do is make minor choices around that.

[@FentySeroquel]

I cared about Solas as a member of my team, but I didn't value him. Not as much as I did Cassandra, Varric, Vivienne, Blackwall, Cole, Sera, or anyone else back at Skyhold. Watching Veilguard center around the opposite of that sure did not give me hope for respecting anything that Hawke, the Hero or the Inquisitor did.

[@MightyManotaur22]

I feel a Top 5 "Meh" in Veilguard's future

[@matosz23]

I'm thinking about the top bad category myself.

[@SinkingAbyss]

Meh is pretty accurate. The game doesn’t have any real issues but there’s not really any reason to get excited about it either

[@MintyCoolness]

@@SinkingAbyss Indeed. It's just a generally good, but passable game.

[@listener709]

​@@MintyCoolnessgenerally good? People tend to finish those its a generally bland game

[@michaell8000]

yeah the overall gameplay is meh but then you add the dialogue and god it's some of the most brainless commentary you can ever hear plus it's been dumbed down to practically a children's storybook

[@Daniee78]

There's a part of this review that is very funny for reasons Yahtzee didn't intend. If you know, you know.

[@DasGanon]

I interpreted that as him knowing/seeing it a mile away, but yeah it's a big thing.

[@SpiderwolfHowling]

It's very funny that he specifically calls it out and then justifies with "I didn't finish the game".

[@MsRedNebulaPlays]

Yup, was scrolling the comments to see if anyone noticed. It's an unfortunate side effect of plot that has to be set up early only to pay off later, it only works if you play the whole game. (And I'm not knocking Yahtzee for not finishing it, it can be a nearly 100 hour game if you're especially thorough and there's just not always time if you're reviewing stuff!)

[@Doogie2K3]

I came here after my spouse asked me a question along that vein and I checked the Wiki for myself. So yes, for everyone else scrolling for the same reason, there is a reason for that thing.

[@yoshi_auditore431]

@@Doogie2K3 what part are you talking about

[@camunderlain]

There are scenes in this game that honestly feel like they were added less to entertain and more so the devs could act out arguments with their parents via the characters.

[@chrisbarnes3864]

Anyone who has played it knows EXACTLY what scenes you're talking about. It ended up being less of an RPG and more of some writers personal therapy session.

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

Not to mention the group therapy sessions.

[@dirckthedork-knight1201]

Now i am interested what where those scenes like?

[@PyroSirBrad]

and they're too afraid to do it in real life because just from the cutscenes alone shows how cringy it'll be

[@Hiccuple]

I hated all the characters in this game. I wish I could have gotten a refund.

[@Slythin]

The Modern Game Dev Loop: 1. "Hey, you all seem to really love this property. We're going to spend a billion dollars to add it to our stable of titles and make sure you get even MORE of what you love!" 2. "Hey, most of the actual human beings that were involved in making the property you love either bailed because of our toxic company culture or sensibly retired because they're eighty." 3. "Hey, we've brought on the amazing team that brought us success with Micropay Slurscreamer and Grooming Stable 5 to add their brand of magic to the property! Get hype!" 4. "Hey, we're noticing a lot of Haters in our social media feed concerning our new title. If you don't like the completely optional, but prompted for, add-on where the villain does a dance, fuck you." 5. "Hey, after internal review we've decided that our audience doesn't REALLY like this property. They would have bought what we gave them if they did. We're handing it off to our Mobile division." 6. "Hey, you all seem to really love this property! . . ."

[@lordgenerias]

You skipped the steps where they shoehorn in modern sociopolitical topics as awkwardly as humanly possible, and where they scream and have a meltdown on social media about how if you don't unquestioningly profess your undying love and unending praise for _absolutely every single aspect_ of said shoehorned in sociopolitical topics that they agree with that you _must_ be a _completely and utterly irredeemable bigot_ that idolizes that flatulent Austrian painter with one testicle and a tiny mustache.

[@simongreen9862]

And by "what you love" we know you mean "microtransactions"!

[@greggreyes6869]

not just games. they are doing it in other media too like star wars, lord of the rings and the wheel of time thank god arcane, last of us and fallout adaptations keep our hopes up

[@UltimaPowers]

"Micropay slurscreamer" Well played, that got me good.

[@gregoryvn3]

Knobbing! 😢

[@admiralalyssa]

With this game being such a direct sequel to Inquisition and so few of the story elements coming over, this game should have starred The Inquisitor as the protagonist. It seems like because the previous games had new protagonists they had to spawn Rook, but Rook is a literal rookie... Why are they being shoved into the commanding role especially if you had a run where the Grey Warden, Hawke, and The Inquisitor are all still alive.

[@declancampbell1277]

tbh i get the intention of new protags every game, but i really think the whole "identity" issue Dragon Age had could have been solved if they just went the Mass Effect route and kept you as the Warden. They'd have had to juggle events around, but i really think they'd have had a much more consistent plot line and tone across the board.

[@aimeewoodworks]

Choosing to play as one of the previous three protagonists would have been an incredible start to veilguard. ugh.

[@gamingforever9121]

@@declancampbell1277it also would have allowed them to spare us the absolute character assassination of Anders and Justice. Both of which were ruined to fill a role that literally any mage in Kirkwall could have fulfilled, including but not limited to the head of the mage circle who you end up killing anyway for completely unrelated to the narrative reasons. Like imagine it instead of him just going crazy due to the Templars, you find out the templars were actually right the whole time and the mages of Kirkwall were absolutely going to rebel because they were sick of living in the circle .

[@TheJadedJames]

I feel like these developers wanted to make a soft reboot of Dragon Age, but where stuck with the reality that Inquisition ended on a cliffhanger. And it would be too awkward to just forget about the Solas betrayal the way Assassin’s Creed just doesn’t talk about the end of AC3 anymore

[@kangazoos2083]

If I remember correctly they went with the whole 'new protag every game' idea because they were too afraid to tell players that DA2 was going to have a voiced protag. Instead of having something like, voice or silent in the character creator they just booted the grey warden and went with an entirely new protag. Hence the traditional we have now.

[@thegreenassassin553]

Another thing that imo makes Rook feel like a poor pick for a protagonist, is that all companions kinda overshadow them in one way or another. You get the choice out of 6 faction-related backstories and 4 races, and all companions are already better versions of what you can be. Grey warden? Davrin is already a Grey Warden *and* has a Griffin. Shadow dragon? Neve's a much more well-known and better connected member or the same organisation. Same thing for the Mourn Watch and Emmerich, who seems to be a much more senior member than you. If you're an Antivan Crow, Lucanis is arguably the best assassin your organisation has. Taash's entire arc, apart from their being non-binary, is about being pulled between the world of being a Lord of Fortune and being a Qunari, so they've got you beat on both those fronts. Similar with Bellara, who's all about being a veiljumper, uncovering ancient elven artifacts, learning about her race's past, so hope you weren't intending to play a Veil Jumper or an elf. Harding luckily isn't part of any faction you can join, however, her entire arc is about the past of the dwarves and their supposed Titan ancestors, so she's got you beat on being a dwarf. There are no factions where a companion doesn't have something more interesting going on than you, and for the races you can pick, they all at the very least match you in terms of story importance. There is nothing that really makes Rook stand out, and I think all previous games (Origins particularly) gave the protagonist some individual importance and story stuff.

[@melissalayton213]

@thegreenassassin553 I agree, and I never felt connected to Rook like my last DA characters. We never get that initial opening that makes us feel like we are role-playing not just watching someone else.

[@wadeperry4294]

Hey, that sounds like I'll get some good fanfiction out of this! Seems like the only way to get a decent protagonaist is to steal one from somewhere else if the game can't give you one.

[@Medytacjusz]

idk, this might be the case of rose-tinted glasses, because imho that criticism applies to every Bioware (and Bethesda come to think of it) game ever. At best they give you a bland and arbitrary "chosen one" justification. I'm chosen, by WHY am I chosen? "only you can do it" but WHY only me? Happened to be at the right place at the right time I guess? Meanwhile none of the companions have this problem and it is in their backstories where 99% of the fun of those games lies, eclipsing the protagonist completely.

[@grzegorzlewandowski3859]

@@Medytacjusz it's often the fact that if you do most things good, or better stumbles are forgotten, or even left unnoticed. You just build enough of the trust with good things that people start to believe that the rest makes sense, too, unless you really mess up later. Even filling the blanks themselves with reasonable theories. On the other hand building the aura of incompetence leaves people doubtful, and more likely to pick on the loose threads. With previous games the problem was absolutely somewhat appearing too, but there was more pacing and build up, making it easier to swallow.

[@Darthtanos]

​@@Medytacjuszorigins not so much. You were one of literally two grey wardens left in the country and Alistair refused to make any decisions at all since he didn't feel qualified. At that point you were literally the only other option to be able to deal with the blight since loghain refused to let any orlesians in the country. That's the best setup that they've had in any game really.

[@IchBinPowerPaul]

They took the color scheme and NPC looks straight from Saints Row, but somehow managed to give everyone less character and expressiveness.

[@antonakesson]

Maybe they took it from the wrong Saints game ;-D

[@SeshmasterSam]

That depends on which Saints Row you're talking about, I suppose.

[@blackdragoncyrus]

The best thing about The Veilguard is that it reminded me to replay Origins, and remember how good it is.

[@bird3713]

Personally, I'm working my way through Mass Effect Legendary Edition - and I didn't even play Veilguard.

[@lucasportasio]

Why'd you have to say that? Here i go playing origins again...

[@predetor911]

@@bird3713same, I like to remind myself I loved BioWare, once upon a time.

[@Falcovsleon21]

Honestly I don’t think Dragon Age in general was ever a good franchise. It always played like an edgelord’s answer to Fable.

[@theobell2002]

The best part about Veilguard is that it reminded me how horrible the combat in Origins is.

[@nobody8717]

if Baldur's Gate 3 was written by english majors with 4+ years in college, The Veilguard was written by a 5th grade middle-school theatre class.

[@Harmles88]

Isn't that kind of insulting to children? I think they could write something more interesting. Veilguard feels like it was written by a committee or HR, it is so bland and sanitized.

[@superturkle]

you really shouldnt insult 5th gaders like that, for shame

[@pyeac]

That's what the English major types are like though

[@PurpleYoshiEgg]

@@pyeac exactly. they do good work.

[@ChaldeaWarmaster]

​@@Harmles88i imagine they could write something akin to goofy nickelodeon cartoons. Silly but entertaining

[@satyasyasatyasya5746]

*I think there's something to the whole "writers writing characters who are more clever and more deep, than they are" thing.* Its as if the writers are just too young or sheltered or priviliged or haven't lived long enough to bring any real substance to their writing. As if they're puppeting the aesthetic of grit without knowing what it is, or how it feels... and also they don't read enough books.

[@RdTrler]

Tell me about it. Writing -- *good* writing -- gets a little ridiculous when you're stopping every 2 sentences to conduct research on something. My favorite was when I remembered that a splash of cold water makes people gasp a big lungful. So I couldn't just have a character take a surprise dunk in cold water; if she did, she'd just instantly drown from a fatal intake.

[@harmonlanager2670]

@@satyasyasatyasya5746 I think you’re overthinking it. Sometimes writers just need more practice, they just miss the mark. There doesn’t need to be an underlying psychological aspect to armchair diagnosis

[@RexZShadow]

What happens when you fill your team with unqualified hires.

[@pompadours8954]

That's a key part of the failure of the writing that people aren't really able to discern. These writers, even though some of them are indeed veterans of the series, scream of the type whose entire lives are lived online and whose social circles are tiny little echo chambers. The type who insist fanfiction is better than real books and who insist that anyone who disagrees is a hater who should be ignored. You can't write a truly deep character without the life experience to understand it, and it shows. They see the big, deep concepts and go 'Cool!' then throw it in without ever really understanding why or taking it far enough to matter.

[@zema9401]

@@harmonlanager2670 The trick is to not have your writing full of bad writers and/or junior writers but monstly consist of acclaimed senior writers (that care about established Lore) and a few junior writers sprinkled in to have them learn from the Seniors. But they didnt do that with Inquisition so why would they now?

[@jcace13]

The party members don’t take damage? What? …………what?!

[@TwoLeftThumbs]

That explains why every enemy ignores them and makes a beeline for you.

[@LIONREV7]

not only that, there is a accesibility mode where you are inmortal

[@sigmahyperion955]

They don't. But, confusingly, there are skills and equipment traits that buff them based on their remaining health -- i.e. "50% more damage when their health is below 25%". Something changed in the design of the game that didn't get fully integrated into the mechanics.

[@Medytacjusz]

I actually support this, can stop worrying about stupid AI running straight to their deaths and ruining your plans and treat party members just like additional equipment/skill slots with backstories.

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

It's a weird choice, and I guess it's because they would have been dead all the time otherwise because the enemies are pretty relentless. Would have preferred them to be normal party members instead of two immortal drones I can order to shoot off skills every now and then, but it didn't really bother me much after the initial confusion.

[@therandomartist3201]

Can’t forgive this game for making Duncan’s sacrifice for nothing. Logain’s plan, Wynne’s magic, the fight against the blight, all for nothing. They nuked the first game off the face of the earth.

[@Rem-753]

first three games, free maches and orlais were also lost to the super double god backed blight

[@KillaTCB]

They nuked all 3 previous games. Everything we did in them means nothing now because of Veilguard.

[@danieldancza6171]

@@Rem-753 So fucking what if they got overrun by the blight? Do you guys think that's the first time shit like that happened? What do you think was happening for the 100 YEARS Dumat was rampaging in the first blight?

[@tortoiseoflegends4466]

@@KillaTCB Now you know how Witcher fans felt when Witcher 3 came out and just deleted all but like 4 minor decisions.

[@ZaydinTTV]

Duncan wasn't a character, he was a plot device.

[@devilmikey00]

I can't think of many franchises where every single game feels wildly different than the one that came before not just in terms of gameplay but tone, feel and look. It's kind of impressive how little each one feels like it takes place in the same world. I am also still baffled they completely abandoned the one really unique thing DA:O had going for it which was the AI control. It was really neat to be able to set up your AI companions to fight for themselves and them actually mostly listen and follow your commands but each game has tossed that in the trash harder than the last game. Now companions are basically just mannequins you dress up, cross your fingers and hope they do something useful.

[@kebsis]

Maybe final fantasy

[@MintyCoolness]

DmC: Devil May Cry?

[@devilmikey00]

@@kebsis Yeah but at least with FF each game isn't supposed to exist in the same world as the last game. Each entry is it's own thing with certain ones like FF7 being their own little mini franchise. Dragon age is supposed to all be taking place in the same world and none of the games ever feel that way.

[@digitaljanus]

The worldbuilding in DA:O was extremely well-detailed but its plot kind of shot them in the foot. They establish in the lore this world-ending threat your PC's order was founded to fight only happens once every century or so. So what do you do for a sequel that isn't just that again? I've actually been impressed with the storylines they've come up with for the sequels, and how they managed to keep the darkspawn and Grey Wardens relevant even when there's no reason for them to be. Now the execution of those stories, that's more of a mixed bag.

[@jimbob1862]

​@@digitaljanus As messy as it's development and it's release was, DA2 had the right idea I feel by focusing on a city state and the how the choices you make gave you influence in it after Origins. Origins > 2 > Inquisition is a really good way to balance stakes imo Sure Kirkwalls kind of fucking dreary but ngl I loved the experience of starting as a broke refugee and spending an entire act just trying to buy your way into citizenship.

[@MrKodell]

The very simple reason it does not "Feel" quite right to play this game was in an investor Q&A. The game spent the first 7 years of devolvement, as a live service open world MMO, with low system req (Like Genshin Impact) and then in 2022 the direction changed (read, live service no longer printing money with servers being expensive). That is when they changed it to a single player, linier-rail story driven, action RPG and that's when they also realized that they would need an actual STORYLINe (and not a quest system) for that change and i guess they rushed hired some not so great writers. All the other wired things can be understandable if you look at it through a lens of a LS/OW that only spent 2 years to converting it.

[@sarafontanini7051]

oh god that sounds AWFUL, especially after everyone was waiting to see how the "stolas is actually a villain" twist would go

[@om58499]

Yep that pretty much what happen

[@ElTequilla]

7 years.. seems like quite a claim. Do you have any sources that backs that up?

[@om58499]

@@ElTequilla don’t know about the original post but i got this from wiki “The game's development, which began in 2015, has been marked by lengthy delays, several fundamental changes in design, and high staff turnover” and dai release in 2014

[@ElTequilla]

@@om58499 It might have started in a conceptual sense in 2015, but we as the public can't really discuss much about length of actual 'Full Production' phase without any clear sources. I really don't think it spent 7 years in active development - it just doesn't line up with what we do know and what occupied Bioware in this time - namely SWTOR, Andromeda, Anthem as well as heavy restructuring and assorted EA management changes.

[@SassyPantsy]

LOL "Relent - LESS - verbal diarrhea is MORE? We agree, have another glass" is fucking peak Yahtzee

[@elaias4955]

Oh boy what have we got here a ‘blandest game’ contender?

[@gamemasteranthony2756]

Contender? I suspect this game will be used for comparisons to see if other games meet the criteria for blandness.

[@alexkaplan6581]

It's probably going to get the coveted third place.

[@pliat]

We’re in for some fierce competition this year

[@mittensbro]

@@gamemasteranthony2756 Star Wars Outlaws also came out this year.

[@danilooliveira6580]

yeah the race for blandest game this year will be fierce. the hardest part is going to be remembering them so you can put in the list.

[@origrammar]

I can’t believe the serendipity of that final gag about Australia and Japan, because I’m currently rewatching the whole Let’s Drown Out playlist and yesterday I heard this same gag in one of the episodes.

[@raybearoz]

Never before has Queensland been described so succinctly.

[@tc5589-1]

That was kind of the British opinion towards all of Australia though. So hardly inspired

[@Chris270693]

@@tc5589-1 Yahtzee used to live in Australia, and I think he even lived in Brisbane, the capital of Queensland. It's very informed, believe me.

[@YokRzeznic]

@@tc5589-1 But in England, it describes anywhere in England you don't come from.

[@hjt091]

@@tc5589-1 Northern Queensland is, if I may phrase it offensively, the Australia of Australia

[@maromania7]

@@tc5589-1 Tbf he lived in Australia for near half his life, moved at 20 and only came to the US a few years back. He's spent more time outside Britain than in it at this point, and basically all of his adult years.

[@guerreiroazul3230]

The biggest problem with this game is the fact that it has very little RP for an RPG, literally every single origin can be boiled down to "you did something objectively good that the higher ups didn't like so now you are a lone wolf."

[@MizeKa]

Very much this. They could had been prologue, like in origins the origins were. But nope! Just a noodle incident.

[@silentdrew7636]

It's one of the classic design dilemmas in RPGs, do you focus on RP or do you try and give the player a say in who the character is .

[@user-og6hl6lv7p]

It "conveniently" plays into the whole oppressed minority theme that they are undeniably hellbent on ramming down our throats. Bleh. Boring, give me a story with real merit and righteousness.

[@DavidJoh]

@@silentdrew7636 They picked the worst of both worlds by giving you a character to play, but not really knowing who that character is from the start. I knew who Hawke and Origins guy were because I got that information at the start. They weren't blindsiding me with crumbs of backstory halfway through the game.

[@silentdrew7636]

@@DavidJoh exactly. Both the player and the writer need a solid understanding of who the character is in order to build quality RP scenes.

[@grzegorzswist]

When I first saw videos from Veilguard I honestly thought they were joke edits. I could not believe dialogue in a BioWare game can be that cringe

[@Kaarl_Mills]

Not that I really expect Yahtzee to be aware or get too worked up about it, but the end of this game also basically says "Rocks fall, everyone dies" in regards to the prior games

[@MazeFrame]

I mean, ME3 was basically "What color do you want your universe ending explosion to be?"

[@thepeoplesXD]

@@MazeFrame I presume that is why the ending of ME3 was almost universally disliked for over a decade now.

[@SadSackGaming]

@@MazeFrameI could have accepted that ending IF anything I did in the trilogy mattered. It’s why I’ve never been able to go back and replay it. Didn’t matter who was saved, who died, what obnoxiously convoluted thing you did to bring every you could bring forward, it was just, ok, I guess the game’s done. Like, craft me three unique ends that take into account every dumb task I did. I can’t play Fallout 4 again for the same reason. I followed a guide to broker peace between the factions, but I can’t talk my kid into letting me run the institute too so people can take some warm showers and clap some robot gorilla cheeks? No, I’ve gotta…*checks notes* essentially nuke the city because I could never possibly negotiate with everyone to not be psychotic for a bit.

[@paniago82]

​@@MazeFrame Shepard died way before that, the illusion of choice at the end is just the reaper respecting shepards effort and giving the galaxy a bit longer to survive.

[@matheusnogueira2539]

@@MazeFrame And nearly everyone hated it too...

[@defiante1]

Dragon Age Origins allows you to kill children. At several different points. People can debate how dark or try hard it is but it is one of the only RPGs that allows you to do that and includes it in the story. Not sure why it's status as dark/gritter/edgy fantasy is in question. You can literally make a mother kill her possessed child in origins.

[@sarafontanini7051]

hell DA2 had a plotline about a serial killer which ends in a really dark and tragic manner

[@adde27]

Hell, DAO's Orzammar questline reveals the extremely disturbing origin of darkspawn broodmothers. Nothing in Veilguard even comes close to that.

[@hartattack2739]

Few companies have fallen so far from grace than Bioware

[@sigalpha215]

Konami, EA, Sega, Bungie, THQ, Atari, Blizzard... Ubisoft.

[@hartattack2739]

@sigalpha215 Some of those have to be good in the first place in order to fall

[@V4Now]

​@@sigalpha215those are still "few" when compared to the gaming landscape. The depths vary.

[@digitaljanus]

Who forced them to divert resources and expertise to make Anthem, a game completely outside of the their wheelhouse? I'll give you a hint, it's two letters...

[@Garrus1995]

Rocksteady.

[@trulylostheaven]

*Spoiler* Varric did die. You are just hallucinating him because of elven god magic and you find it out later.

[@manjackson2772]

That's stupid.

[@SimuLord]

Bold strategy, ripping off Spec Ops: The Line.

[@skycloud5695]

@@manjackson2772 Nah, when it's not written out like that in a single sentance, it's actually one of the best twists and emotion moments in the game. But hey man, if you also thought 'Fight Club' was stupid, then thats really on you tbh.

[@RavingNutter]

@@skycloud5695 Except Fight Club didn't have the other characters constantly stating that Tyler didn't exist like this game does with Varric's death. The real emotional twist is when you realize that once she was done doing her part of the writing for this game, Bioware laid off Varric's creator and lead writer after working for them for nearly 20 years then released a bunch of promotional material with Varric in it. Big "thanks for all your hard work, now go screw yourself" energy there. Did not see it coming.

[@skycloud5695]

@@RavingNutter Hey man, I feel awful for the writers of this game too, don't get it twisted. Keep in mind that it was EA throwing these people out, not the Bioware team. Regardless, Varric's twist and tragedy WAS really well done, and the characters mentioning him is just good ol reliable foreshadowing. Thats just a sign of good writing. Fight Club has plenty of foreshadowing too, most of it's just non verbal. Doesn't make it any better or worse than Veilguards foreshadowing. Example from google search: Subliminal flashes of Tyler: Tyler is briefly flashed on screen a few times. Tyler in a hotel commercial: Tyler is hidden in a hotel commercial. Pay phone: The pay phone says "no incoming calls allowed". Car crash: Tyler crashes a car to teach The Narrator to let go. Pulling The Narrator out: Tyler crawls over the car and pulls The Narrator out of the driver's side. The Narrator driving: The Narrator was driving the entire time.

[@demilung]

I only played Dragon Age Origins, but it had an identity. It was "Song of Ice and Fire, but with elves and dwarfs and with the White Walkers are the main plot" The world is grim and shitty and some people try to make the best of it while others revel in how grim and shitty it is, and you get to see it through your lense of having to somehow maneuver and persuade people to, at first take the encroaching threat of the evil monsters seriously, and later - to trust you that you can beat it and that they can't sit this one out and wait for it to blow over. There were politics and history and such that you could touch upon, but ultimately it was not your problem or focus - your problem was the monster invasion.

[@grzegorzswist]

"Ferelden smells like a wet dog" I think That quote sums the Gameworld pretty accurately.

[@daniellandon6811]

Origins borrowed way too much gameplay from Neverwinter Nights. That game play only worked for NWN though considering when it was made.

[@Aggrofool]

Gameplay-wise it's closer to BG2 than NWN. NWN was very barebones due to restrictive ruleset, low levels and only one NPC party member.

[@TheFlash-rh2el]

Are you sure it just didn't meet your teenage identity head on? Everything that came out between 2001 and 2013 was gritty and dark because most mainstream games sold in America and The UK were American, and they were slap-bang in the middle of dealing with 9/11 anger and overcompensation. So eveything was dark, dull of blood and centred around occupation, invasion or guns. They're over it now, what do you expect?

[@Garrus1995]

Haven’t played it and don’t really plan to. But from watching gameplay videos and hearing what people are saying, it seems like this game is suffering from that same issue that Spider-Man 2 did; no one interacts with each other like an actual person. The conversations are all so bland and inoffensive, it seems like no one is allowed to dislike each other or even to have a disagreement. As if the story was written with an HR manager hovering over the writer the whole time.

[@Medytacjusz]

hm, I felt similarly about Hades' writing and a few other games, seems like a trend. I call it "therapy writing", where everything seems like part of an educational video shown at school written by therapists or self-help gurus where every interaction is mostly just a setup to serve you a "moral" message or life advice or just a generic "being nice to each other is good" platitude. It's as if fiction had this utilitarian function of comforting/reassuring you. Think it might be related to the rise of "cosy games". [not that there weren't also positive elements to writing in Hades but that was the overall vibe]

[@Mirality]

That's not really a fair assessment. The companions do have problems with each other and with you, and express that. However it is true that you end up acting as the therapist yourself in trying to get them to reconcile (you don't get options to drive them apart), though this does make sense since you're the leader trying to make an effective team. There is flavour with this though and there are points where you can side with one over the other.

[@grzegorzlewandowski3859]

@@Medytacjusz huh didn't notice that before you mentioned, but you're absolutely right. Might be dealing with family drama rather than end of the world hiding it better. And Hades (with other Olympian gods to some extent) being kinda an asshole, but not painted as actual irredeemable evil.

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

@@Mirality Yeah, also sometimes the companions have such mild and dumb disagreements that I felt more like a kindergarten teacher than anything else lol. The quality of writing is all over the place, sometimes it's incredible and at other times I'm telling Taash off for calling Emmrich names.

[@Nowolf]

@@Medytacjusz can't really have anything severe enough to cut you off from content when there's a narrative going on.

[@JMorrall89]

Finally someone else has noticed that purple/magenta tinged box art is usually put on absolute bollocks.

[@cedargeor8852]

I’m maybe two hours into this game, and I keep asking myself; “Why is the protagonist here? What gives him a purpose to solve these problems and what makes him more qualified than anyone else to do it?” And I just don’t have an answer to that question that is satisfying.

[@Entertainer13]

"You're like a chess piece. You go straight at the problem." Varric totally explained that. Totally. See, it makes sense. You're also unpredictable according to him. You know. Like a chess piece. With a set movement. I like the game fine but you are 100% correct.

[@cedargeor8852]

@ I’m super glad that you’re enjoying it, I genuinely wish I was able to do that as well. I loved Dragon Age as a kid, the world was awesome, my choices particularly in the first game felt meaningful, and I adored everything about the Elves. I was so excited for this game when it was announced, and when I got it, it was super underwhelming. It didn’t feel like Dragon Age anymore, I’m still trying to figure out why it doesn’t resonate with me beyond the issues of player motivation. There’s something missing at its core I just can’t put my finger on. It’s frustrating lol.

[@tinminator8905]

Obviously your character is really dense. The dialogue is really shit, but if it gets one point across, it’s that the protagonist is a narcissistic dimwit. Your reason for doing it is because fake Varric created by Solas who needs a pawn, or rook in this case, to achieve his goals is manipulating you. He plays into your ego and tells you are a hero and the greatest. To me that part is fully believable. But it is odd that all the others keep following you. I guess they keep having some success, so might as well. Or at least until the end.

[@monozuki]

Yahtzee shying away from talking about the "writing" in Veilguard is, I think, the biggest shock of this review.

[@Ragitsu]

He is scared.

[@Did_No_Wrong]

You really nailed my problem with Rook as a protagonist, they're just some guy Varric met once and suddenly they are treated like a messiah and trusted with saving the world. It makes no freaking sense, I could see the npcs treating the player character like this if they were the inquisitor or some badass known throughout Thedas, but Rook is literally some rando so why are they treated like some messiah so quickly?

[@alexlyster3459]

I don't even mind them being a rando, but dont just start the game mid situation with the Rando being already accepted. Include the meeting SHOW us why theyre accepted.

[@starkillerkate]

Rook really feels like they were written as a self-insert for a very specific type of player first, and as an actual protagonist second. (The bond with Varric is considered pre-ordained instead of actually introducing him properly, and all the faction choices presume you know a lot about the world already.)

[@pompadours8954]

It's crazy because Inquisition, which huge chunks of this game carry on from, literally did the same thing but way better. Your Inquisitor is a nobody forced into relevance by circumstance, and many of your companions openly (and very reasonably) tell you that they don't trust you with such enormous responsibility, but their hands are tied because you're the only one who can close the rifts. You have to earn that trust through deeds.

[@lordgenerias]

My guess: the writers like self insert Mary Sue characters *(coughcoughTaashcoughcough),* so they assume _all players_ must _also_ like such characters. It's a wonder they never said something like "Rook is your character, so _obviously_ everyone loves and adores them immediately, except for _(these characters that we've arbitrarily deemed to be the) bad guys (because they're being written like the strawman version of people who don't praise us for deining to exist in their presence)._ Rook is just the coolest and awesomest at what they do, so everyone knows, _just by looking at your Rook,_ that they're the awesomestest, coolestest, and sexiest person _evar!"_ on social media. (That last bit kind sounds kind of like Az from Heel Vs Babyface making fun of, well, the kind of person that wrote for Veilguard, oddly enough.)

[@MeandMonkeyLP]

@@lordgenerias How the fuck is Taash is a Mary Sue

[@ninja3212]

A thing that I think people don't mention as often is just how good each of the party members were in Dragon Age: Origins. They had great voice acting, and interesting interactions not just with you, but with your other party members as well. The only game in the genre to do it as well since then is Baldur's Gate III I think; in a lot of ways BGIII is a spiritual successor to DA:O, in addition to being just a normal sequel to BGII.

[@Keira_Blackstone]

I'd agree with the glaring exception of Oghren. Every interaction with him made me feel like he'd randomly wandered in from some other game.

[@aze94]

I think Dragon Age 2 had better party members

[@kallummilne8365]

6:00 Wow I dont even need to pay to have Yahtzee verbally degrade me 🤤

[@traviebohave]

My biggest issue with it, after about 10 hours, is I just don't care about the story or the characters. The main story is kind of boring. It follows a Mass Effect 2-style story of Assembly Allies -> Find Baddies -> Defeat Baddies, companion quests along the way. But somehow I find none of the allies I have so far particularly interesting. Nothing serious ever happens, with Varric surviving the opening cutscene a foreshadowing of how they will pull punches. Also, I think Yahtz nails it with the level design critique: someone just drew some linear levels, put random stuff in it, and said "good enough". Nothing feels well-designed yet I also know it's not procedurally generated so it winds up being some unpleasant in-between of same-y blandness. I don't buy into "Dragon Age is a dark game", as Yahtzee doesn't either, but it's more like it's just kinda smoothed out to be so inoffensive to anyone that they overdid it and there is no intrigue at all. It's "sickly sweet". Almost like Animal Crossing in a way.

[@Murrythesane]

@@traviebohave Varric "Surviving"....

[@Gamer3427]

In fairness, the first and second Dragon Age games were more "dark" fantasy. A fair bit of the edges got filed off with Inquisition but it still had a few. This game is like if you were an over protective parent trying to tell a Dragon Age themed story to a very impressionable five year old, and were afraid they'd have nightmares if they even thought anyone in the story wasn't as morally upstanding as a lifelong nun.

[@mrman6035]

Yeah it's funny how it's immortalized in this episode form about Varric surviving since he stopped right when the big reveal of that happens.

[@manjackson2772]

Dragon Age Origins was supposed to be "dark" in that there were comical amounts of blood everywhere

[@traviebohave]

@@Murrythesane ahhh I see. Well, me and Yahtz probably stopped at the same point, because I never saw him get out of bed in the hub world. even disregarding the plot, I think what Yahtz really nailed was his critique of the level design. I got the game because I read in reviews that the gameplay and world was fun. It was not. It was repetitive. And now I really question the other reviews I read since Yahtz seems to be the only one I saw that I agree with

[@WorldsTallestLeprechaun]

Veilguard suffers from “Written by crappy fanfic authors” syndrome, under the specific variation of the disease where said authors use their unearned “legitimacy” to write a brand new canon for the series and utterly destroy all the previous canon just to make their newer “””better””” take into the **only TRUE** version of the story as a whole. Proof of this? Ferelden, the land from the first DA game? Which was hit by a Blight, but it was the shortest Blight ever thanks to the effort of the Warden (your player character) uniting everyone to defeat the Darkspawn? Yeah, it’s gone. Apparently another Blight happened and everything and everyone there was destroyed. Oh well, too bad, so sad, guess we’ll just have to focus on the NEW, BETTER heroes for the series since the originals were apparently inept losers who got lucky, LAWL. The writers for DA:Veilguard need to have that written on their resume’s from now on and tell it to every future employer that they were involved in the writing for Veilguard in the same way that people on an SO registry need to introduce themselves to their neighbors, as a warning so those neighbors know they need to keep a CLOSE eye on their kids, pets, and potted plants. “I worked on Veilguard’s story.” “Ah, so I shouldn’t let you ANYWHERE NEAR any sort of writing implement or a job that would give you any creative freedom whatsoever, got it.”

[@SpecShadow]

“Written by crappy fanfic authors”? That's just AAA gaming and Hollywood these days

[@fieryrebirth]

@@SpecShadow Yup. BG3 handled its open-minded and open-ended tropes better in their characters new and old at least. Corporatism is like DA's The Blight to a degree, they sap all life and artistic integrity.

[@WorldsTallestLeprechaun]

@@SpecShadow Are you expecting me to disagree with you?

[@sarafontanini7051]

see this is what more people should be talking about, not taash's arguement with their mum because that was literally all i heard about in regards to negativity towards the game so thanks for bringing up something that's ACTUALLY bad

[@axiss5840]

​@@sarafontanini7051 Except that that 'argument' is emblematic of the entire problem. The entire game has to stop so the author can have a one-sided 'I'm obviously right' argument with their parents about modern, American, silicon-valley gender politics. No one wants this except other activists who want their opinions parroted back to them for validation. No one watched LotR and thought 'God I hope they bring up the cost-of-living crisis.'

[@eldibs]

The entire game feels like the story and dialogue were written by AI. Also, in the previous three games, all the items felt hand-crafted and deliberately placed. Meanwhile, in this one it's like "Oh, I have to search that random back corridor in case there's 12 gold down there!"

[@k3salieri]

AI would be better than this since it pulls from better written material. Lol

[@mattmuir2160]

Even Inquisition was a game I kept starting and enjoying only to get bored and stop playing about 2/3 of the way through without being able to figure out why I was getting bored. Nothing about this game looked appealing to me at all.

[@grzegorzlewandowski3859]

Inquisition was terribly drawn out a lot of the time. It's not that hard to get absolutely bored even of decent elements.

[@Roronoa2zoro]

Inquisition had incredibly pointless, huge open zones and meaningless side quests. If you tried to do all of those it's no wonder you got bored. Veilguard has much smaller zones and fewer side quests that each have more meat on the bone. Whether that meat's seasoned in a way you'll like is another matter entirely, but then that's why this game's been so polarizing.

[@JesseColton]

I understand what people mean when they say the zones in Veilguard aren't as big as Inquisition, but the areas feel SO much more dynamic to me. Inquisition has a bunch of big open plains with some enemies randomly scattered around, but Veilguard areas are kind of like mazes or labyrinths, and figuring your way around them and how they connect feels a lot more satisfying to me.

[@rastifan7863]

If I pirated this game, I would still demand my money back.

[@NeverQuiteAlex]

I'm not sure if this was a uniquely British thing that the likes of Yahtzee and I experienced in our youth, but my god...even the vague memory of the church drama groups makes my body clench with cringe...

[@mrblack5145]

Unfortunately no, it's common in the Midwest and Bible belt of America too. Growing up in a southern Baptist house, God was a vindictive and petty force that reveled in creative death- on that old testament shit- so when churches presented God as something fun and hip and cool, even as a child I thought "I don't think your God is the same one my mom prays to."

[@a_level_70_elite_raccoon]

​@@mrblack5145ex-evangelical, I had pretty much the same experience, except God was always about 15 minutes away from "cleansing" the Earth.

[@otterbaby7769]

Oh we have stuff like that all the time on the south. My youth group used to play this game called Scary church where we turned out all the lights and we had to role play being Christians being hunted down by the anti christ’s government during the tribulation.

[@snackplaylove]

@@a_level_70_elite_raccoonwish he’d fucking hurry up

[@CrispBaker]

The smiles on those people were TERRIFYING, like Jesus was the only thing stopping them from ending up in prison for life

[@questor55]

The point made about "why should I be the one to save the world" is something I've noticed more in fantasy fiction lately. This seems to be because writers don't know how to ground the characters. To do that, you have to be at least passingly familiar with normal, happy human interaction and community. You know, home and hearth. This is necessary to determine the better part of the stakes if the villains win and blow it all up. I get the feeling that writers simply aren't even familiar with what a normal communitarian life feels like, having grown up staring into the tablet their mum gave them and not leaving the house. Instead, they thrust their characters into a flat with a bunch of edgy students and instruct them to care about them. They've skipped a step. It feels wrong.

[@axiss5840]

Modern writers grew up on nothing but pop-culture, so went into pop-culture because they literally don't know anything else. It ironically makes them TERRIBLE creators because they have no lived-experience to tell stories about.

[@danvzare6201]

The truly sad part is that the writers are likely in their late twenties or early thirties. Meaning they grew up with shows like Jackass and South Park, games like TimeSplitters and Shadow the Hedgehog, and websites like Newsground and early KZbin. As a millennial, I personally can't wait until the zoomers take over. My generation is a disgrace. From the conversations I've had though and the stuff I've seen them make, I think zoomers are going to make some absolutely insane stuff. We just need to wait about ten to twenty more years.

[@justjustjusttttaasdddf-ri6xh]

Bland Age: The Game Industry Guard

[@ImpudentInfidel]

I like how Yahtzee both did and did not immediately figure out the Varrick twist.

[@kevinschultz6091]

Contrast with 6th Sense, Fight Club, and The Others for that kind of misdirection being done well. EDIT - I think the issue is that the foreshadowing was too heavy-handed; if the only reasonable thing to say about it is "Oh, the writers were lazy and didn't fix this bit of dialogue", then you've failed in foreshadowing. (ie, there was no ambiguity or any way to interpret it other than that, as it was obviously wrong.)

[@marziomasini0]

Well now that I've spoiled myself that bit I DEFINITELY will not play that game

[@adamzielinski5213]

@@kevinschultz6091 I have to agree. I only just found out about the 'twist,' but I can't say that what I'm hearing is as well written as people are claiming. Having your party members constantly mention a fact that you personally believe is false and, what, you just never bring up with them? You never ask them why they keep saying these things that by rights you should think are nonsensical? That's not good foreshadowing. It is, as you said, heavy-handed. It's artificially forcing the character to act dumb so that they can be surprised by the twist. It's the tool of a writer that didn't know how to actually obscure the twist. If we take the 6th Sense as you mentioned, yes, there were obvious signs that something wasn't right, but they were excusable by other circumstances surrounding them. No one flat out says anything in the 6th Sense that contradicts your established understanding of the circumstances. Then, when the twist is revealed, all of the signs and foreshadowing still make perfect sense, you just have a new perspective on them. That is not what Veilguard did.

[@rocky38964]

@@adamzielinski5213 I didn't play the game, but... yeah, that sounds like terrible, terrible writing. If a piece of media gives you two different, mutually exclusive facts, both of them presented as objectively true, your first thought is not going to be "hm there is a deep mystery being foreshadowed," it''s gonna be "This seems like a plot hole"

[@MastaDRD]

Aaaand thanks for spoiling that. I hadn't gotten that far in yet.

[@n0isyturtle]

Continuing the writing and dialogue traditions of such greats like Forspoken, Saints Row Reboot, and Marvel's Avengers.

[@CommanderBohn]

That game is one massive insult in every way. Story sucks. Companions suck. Ferelden is toast. Your choices in the previous games don't matter. I wish BioWare goes bankrupt because this is all they are good at as I wait for the one RPG from the actual creators of Mass Effect that actually feels like a good RPG being cooked until it's perfect.

[@Eeraschyyr]

BioWare isn't the one who'd go bankrupt. Electronic Arts bought them out after Origins and the first Mass Effect, which is why the primary shift in gameplay happened for the sequels.

[@Roronoa2zoro]

"I hope hundreds of people lose their jobs, because I had a negative experience with a game" is a heck of a thought to have.

[@CommanderBohn]

@@Roronoa2zoro The people at BioWare are not the ones that gave us the previous Dragon Age games, nor the original Mass Effect games. Those are people that are hellbent on destroying stuff others love and hate what made the previous BioWare games what they are. Current BioWare is a shell of its former self and doesn't deserve no sympathy for turning a dark fantasy setting into a therapy session with pronounces and surgical cuts where the breasts are.

[@Roronoa2zoro]

@@CommanderBohn Since KZbin hid my last reply i'll just rephrase and edit it down: Oh cool, you're just completely f***ing insane. You might not want to look up who the lead writer on Veilguard was and what they've worked on in the past at BioWare lest your whole delusional world shatter around you.

[@sebastiangibson9671]

@@Roronoa2zoro i honestly dont care anymore they're doing a shit job

[@Sadarak1980]

That was more positive then i expected actually, i mean he didnt like it, but he didnt leave it bleeding on the floor from a good beating either.

[@CrimpyCracker]

Yahtzee knows its less fun to kick the village idiot in the groin when there's nothing left after everyone else got their kick in first.

[@roselily20062]

Last time I was this early the backdrop was yellow

[@addictedtofigbiscuits]

Yellow™

[@Theray0evan]

you got a very audible and ugly snort out of me during my lunch break. Good shit

[@jflem1897]

thanks for your sacrifice. I understand, many were lost to created this video. DAV is a special creature that shouldn't of ever been allowed out of the dev shop...

[@BreezeInMonochromeNight]

Gotta love all the comments saying "Uh, Yahtzee you forgot to spoil the endgame twist, let me just do that for you"

[@camf269]

Wasn't expecting to see north Queensland catching strays, but it's always a delight to see and always well-deserved.

[@TuriGamer]

He really tried his hardest to not mention the writing huh

[@jarlath9414]

Or he didn't care

[@TuriGamer]

@@jarlath9414 he did many times before lol

[@darrylferguson3622]

Mentioning the writing in detail would mean having to think about it, and I understand why he wouldn't want to

[@jarlath9414]

@@TuriGamer So he didn't care this time lol

[@slimybean]

Is "let's work on making your dialogue less shit" and calling it "relentless verbal diarrhoea" not mentioning the writing?

[@ArnoVdVelde]

Wow! Second wind is close to 2 years? Crazy stuff!

[@AustralianMurderTurtle]

I don't know why it's still called Dragon Age, because the Dragon Age ended after the first game, if anything it's Post-Dragon Age.

[@omniscientearl]

Veilguard takes place in 9:53 Dragon. So... still the Dragon Age.

[@Friendlyfirefish]

No it didn't. Lol.

[@latinojackson9694]

he went pretty easy on this game to be honest

[@Caspellaer]

I think his was a more emotionally honest reaction than all the people insisting it’s dogshit 0/10 It’s like, basically fine, sort of dull, generally gets better as it goes

[@spastictuesdays340]

Yeah, he needed to be more sensitive to how much Real Gamerz hate grownups.

[@maraque16]

I mean, people have been greatly exaggerating how bad the game is because they can't handle pronouns.

[@inytule_4688]

​@@maraque16if that was the real biggest issue lmao

[@skycloud5695]

Not really lol, this is just what you get when you have an actual professional critique your game instead of youtubers and streamers that are profitting from hating on the game, because those videos are getting an insane amount of views right now and so it's an easy bandwagon. Try going back to watch Yatzhee's ZP review of Origins back in the day. Even then he mocks the game for considering itself a 'Dark Fantasy' game, unlike all the negative reviews on steam currently complaining Veilguard lost it's 'Dark Fantasy' identity. Yatzhee can see the game for what it is, another Dragon Age in the series that has it's strengths and it's flaws, like all the others, even Origins. This game does some things worse than Origins, and it does some things significantly better than Origins. Thats just an objective conclusion anyone would draw if they aren't letting themselves be blinded by nosliga thinking Origins was above having bad diologue, cliche villians, or a lighter 'marvel like' tone at points. It wasn't. Origins is a great game, but Veilguard isn't nearly as differant from Origins as content creators would have you believe. Yatzhee didn't go easy on this game. He just reviewed it for what it was. Another Dragon Age that overall is on par with the rest of the series.

[@codykelly1949]

You don't even build a build. You choose a preset and choose abilities 🙄 and can't even use all them in a battle just the three you lock in. The enemies near spawn like DA 2, it's linear AF, and you can only upgrade gear. Weapon crafting and armor crafting is gone, lore searching is next to nothing because you can't decisively talk to someone to find out more about the world and settings, just at intervals in the detached safe haven. Rook has no real interest or storyline, just some, oh yeah you did do that moments

[@danielcohn-bendit701]

“Now this is the story All about the charms of a guy who got nails right through his palms.” Yahtzee you just caused me the biggest spit-take. Coffee everywhere!

[@Uniscorn123]

I don't play Dragon Age but my brother does and he said of Veilguard: The combat was fun, the dialogue was atrocious, the ending was amazing, so two out of three ain't bad. But I'm gonna go with Yahtzee's opinion on this one because my brother is also my twin and is therefore me and is therefore dumb.

[@adamc4077]

Finished it 2 days ago. Ending was really good

[@jepeman]

I don't know if you can call it two out of three if 90% of the game is bad with a 10% good consisting of ending?

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

@@jepeman Honestly, about 70-80% of the game is good. Even the majority of the writing is solid, it just shits the bed every now and then. Shame the early game is actually pretty atrocious, so a lot of people will drop it before it gets going.

[@SpecShadow]

bad game with good ending? sounds like reverse Mass Effect 3

[@magmos6346]

The ending was amazing? Might wanna take away your brother's weed stash for a bit. Pulling out an Illuminati that was behind ALL the bad guys ever is not an amazing ending.

[@albertmyers7480]

Relevant to something in this review - this game has a plot twist that does the opposite of coming out of nowhere. It presents you with something and then you think, "Huh, this is weird" and then, forty hours later it says, "Haha, that is not what happened" but it's just not really surprising. You knew something was off but you just attributed it to poor writing. So I guess the actual twist is that the writing wasn't as bad as you thought it was? And to make matters worse the twist undermines itself - it hides something from the player at a point where it could have had an emotional impact and then 'reveals' it later where it's sort of lost it's meaning. There's a new meaning they attribute to it but the whole thing just sort of falls flat. I actually liked the game well enough but some of it was just dumb. SPOILER WARNING Varric actually died. Solas uses blood magic to trick you into thinking that Varric is still alive and uses a vision of him to manipulate you. Then the reveal is more about how Solas manipulated you and can't be trusted instead of being about Varric dying. So instead of the death of a 3 game character having meaning they relegate the impact to the final act in order to demonstrate that the character you clearly can't trust can't be trusted.

[@FreyaofCerberus]

As a standalone game Veilguard is just kinda eh. As a Dragonage game it becomes terrible by comparison. They ditched the tone, the art style, the previous games choices, whole swathes of lore, all kinds of prejudice to make this bland HR approved romp. Also it's a minor point but for a game that hyped up romance options as much as it did this is the most chaste and unsteamy that these games have ever been. I'm not even just talking about a lack of sex scenes although those got ditched too but the dialogue (if your love interest even acknowledges you are in a relationship) never rises above "oh shall we have a picnic and hold hands". It's just bafflingly bad. Almost as if this game was designed for kids...

[@magmos6346]

"Almost as if this game was designed for kids..." Do (wo)manchildren count?

[@Polginite]

5:35 "Today's credits monologue is meant solely for Second Wind Patreon subscribers" welp gotta dash thanks for putting out videos for us ruffians

[@DustyGamma]

1:45 A proud tradition, dating back to at least Deus Ex.

[@Gaskinmoo79]

If I was going to be honest I didn't think he was going to touch a review of this game with a ten foot barge pole. Hat off to him.

[@johnbono2384]

I was deeply annoyed by how much of the conversation about this game was about its politics, when that was like the 4th or 5th shittiest thing about the game.

[@magmos6346]

True, but how much of the things above it STEM from the politics?

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

@@magmos6346 Probably none. A poorly written game is a poorly written game.

[@cookieface80]

@@Unknown-jt1jo Why were those bad writers hired?

[@GaroTD2]

Oh this is how I found out Yahtzee came back to KZbin, subscribed

[@Vareon-r1h]

The point is that Varrick is one of the two most likable characters in both DA2 and DA3 so while killing off some other, lesser characters from DA2 would be fine to emotionally charge DA4 and show how high the stakes are, killing Varrick would be blasphemy and piss off all the fans whom this is aimed at in the first place because people who did not play DA3 or at least DA2, whose plots directly connect to DA4 unlike the standalone DAO, do not care about Varrick in the first place and may not even know who he is. Having your attempt at making existing series fans care more getting them angry and caring less would be stupid as hell. But of course the obvious thing would have been to pick the least favourite party member or major NPC from DA3 (that one male human you can only romance as female human or female elf) and in fact kill them for real since too few fans who remember the character will actually be angry about the death, just leaving the desired impact of having killed a named character with a bunch of dialog and no backlash or backfire

[@miguellopes7627]

You had me at "who the fuck are you and why are you talking to me"

[@BP-dn9nv]

On the bright side at least it didn't end up a live service. Yes yes, I know that's hollow praise

[@lordgenerias]

The lone daisy in a field of wet, freshly made cow pies on a hot summer day.

[@Zarnubius]

it took me 12 years to realize this is the zero punctiation guy.

[@runningcommentary2125]

He was a bit lighter on it than I expected.

[@shieldplus]

It's so funny for me to see people referring to Rook as "just some guy" because the only people I know who play Dragon Age games are women. I legitimately forgot Rook could be male

[@MusicoftheDamned]

05:10 _Shagging Abe Vigoda_ sounds like it would be a less boring or at least decidedly less bland game by default than this ironically, even if that's a low(-hanging) "bar".

[@9Nifty]

To be honest Dragon Age was actually a good franchise and it's actually hard to find informed Veilguard reviews because nobody remembers a series that's already a decade and a half old.

[@tc5589-1]

Well it sounds about as good as it looked. Thanks for your service in wading through the muck.

[@thelaughingrouge]

I think my biggest problem is that it has the feel of "Everything you did in the other games doesn't really matter". In a long running franchise you can't really do that.

[@Rem-753]

especially glaring if you play the games back to back. going from inquisition having countless nods and references to past choices, including having entirely different characters from origins involved in the main story...to essentially: did you bang solus Y/N?

[@ronnocmsungam]

FWIW a couple of the things mentioned here are addressed in and game reveals. Specifically: SPOILERS BELOW . . . . . . The weird situation with Varric where he’s just hanging out doing nothing but saying nice platitudes is an illusion, he is in fact dead and has been the whole time. You’ll notice as you think back nobody else ever interacts with Varric or responds to him, only rook. Not a good enough “twist” to totally redeem the story line, but it’s at least something. Also the final act is, as people say, a general improvement. However that just means it goes from “fine” to “pretty good” :/ The inconsistent writing and lack of integration with the broader DA setting really hinders the whole experience.

[@shadow-r3852]

"In the process of gathering our party and venturing forth" is a really cool little reference. God I love this stuff

[@leetleshinigami6099]

Am I nuts or is this...a reference to the Icewind Dale games??

[@shadow-r3852]

@@leetleshinigami6099 for me that sounds like a reference to his FR of knights of the old republic, where he complained that "you must gather your party before venturing forth" can take forever?

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

@@leetleshinigami6099 Yes, it's a reference to the old Infinity Engine games (BG1, BG2, etc.) where if you tried to leave a location without all of your characters, it would say "You must gather your party before venturing forth."

[@arifhossain9751]

Veilguard is basically Bioware's Starfield

[@sainsburyshopper]

@@arifhossain9751 There was Anthem and Andromeda. They’re like 3 Starfields deep right now and still kicking. I’m semi-impressed.

[@arifhossain9751]

Anthem was actually Bioware's Iron Man for the PS2.

[@TheBT]

Oh, Starfield was worse.

[@sainsburyshopper]

@@arifhossain9751 Does that make Andromeda Bubsy 3D or Max Payne for the Gameboy Advance?

[@supervamp78]

No where near what crack are you smoking?

[@goldie819]

Continuing the tradition where every Dragon Age is bad in its own unique way

[@MintyCoolness]

The cycle contines on~

[@Lalasquad360]

Origins: Not enough of it 2: Shrunk the world to one city, and Mass Effected it Inquisition: Made demons lame, needed an expansion to salvage the story Veilguard: Too much to list here, not bad in its own way but just a shit game in general.

[@adeptdamage3669]

Except Origins. It was the only good onw.

[@penttikoivuniemi2146]

@@Lalasquad360 Origins has awful art direction, awful combat, awful pacing, and half of it is absolute shit. The other half is incredible though.

[@samuelkronfeld112]

I'm more than halfway through the game and I do agree with a lot of his opinions. This is the blandest of the Dragon Age games and the characters feel like they all come off as droputs from the Joss Whedon School of clever people and Rook has less personality than a paper bag. But I really wanted to play an RPG that was more fast-paced than BG3 which is a better RPG but it's one that I agonize over my decisions because I care and it's a game that if I play, I have to plan my day around that.

[@gobo5]

The ending is pretty epic but my god you have to wade through sludge to get there.

[@BBB_bbb_BBB]

That's something I wish RPGs would do more of. Make the PC a complete nobody that no one respects. Make it part of the story telling that you have to actually make yourself known, and make it only extend as far as it logically would. Just because you helped one person out shouldn't make everyone on the continent suddenly recognize your face.

[@singingstar999]

have you played Kingdom Come: Deliverance? I think you would like that. I can't wait for the sequel next year. They treat the protagonist rather like this in the beginning-mid of the game.

[@BBB_bbb_BBB]

@@singingstar999 I have, and I remember really enjoying it. But that was back on the 360 I played, so I can't say I remember it very well at this point.

[@silentdrew7636]

There's a few good examples out there, but it's one of those ideas that the writers have to really commit to it. You have to specifically make the character a nobody and you need personal stakes.

[@armelior4610]

Funny that's exactly what DA2 did, regardless of the rest of the game : you start off as a poor immigrant who makes a name for him/herself as a mercenary and get increasingly more connected/rich/powerful through various endeavors and become the "hero of the city"... but in the end the situation still blows up in your face

[@iAmPimmiCue]

@@BBB_bbb_BBB KCD wasn't on Xbox 360....

[@gazh7150]

".. not just dead eyed backing and forthing like your parents having sex." LOL! I had to scroll back because I couldn't hear over my laughter! Hehehe..

[@CteCrassus]

Sounds like a strong "Top 5 Blandest" contender!

[@Bolshie_Colt]

From the amount of terrible reviews I've already seen about this game, Yahtzee was surprisingly gentle on the game. Very weird.

[@lucienwolf5353]

I mean I rewatched his ZP videos on the older games and he never seemed to care to much about the games overall. With Inquistion being his most positive of all of them, so it's not too suprising that he sounds dissmisive of the game as a whole.

[@kiptheott]

Most of the negativity comes from how it retcons/ignores stuff from prior games, and Yahtzee doesn't really care about those games. On its own merits it's just bland and poorly-written.

[@EdwardFairburn]

I played about 15 hours and it's not terrible, it's just not an RPG. It reminds me a lot of Fallout 4 in that there's loads of conversations but none of them mean or affect anything so I just chose whichever I flicked to first every time which got boring very fast. The combat is fine but it really forces you to play a specific way. I was a mage and like to stand at the back of the battle and control things but that' not possible here; I'm forced to zip around and dodge roll anywhere and the only difference between this and other character builds is the colour of projectiles I fire. It doesn't even matter which other characters I bring with me as I can't tell one of them to be a tank while I use magic; they all zip around and play exactly the same. Finally, the writing's been discussed a lot, but yes it really is as bad as people say; I thought it was just "those people" who complain about everything that's slightly diverse, but for example a cool treasure hunter faction are introduced, the game then proceeds to lecture the player on how stealing from other cultures is not good and these are actually super respectful treasure explorers, it's like they don't understand what fantasy is. Also why do all the Elves refer to the gods as "Elven gods"? would humans say "human gods"? So I think i'm done after 15 hours I have no interest at all in going back and doing the same fight over and over while skipping through dialogue which means nothing.

[@Dumbledoresarmy13]

Bioware: (with backwards baseball cap and sunglasses, enters riding a skateboard) How do you do, fellow teens? We all like Fortnite, am I right? Also Bioware: Lets continue an ongoing series with a direct sequel to the events of a game from 10 years and two console generations ago

[@Fenix31799]

The visceral reaction I had to hearing your NPC companions don’t have health bars and can’t die 😖 really cuts out any stakes and feels like Baby’s First RPG

[@callumjohnston858]

This is definitely the one game where the protagonist feels less qualified to do stuff. Origins, you're the Grey Wardens, it's your job. 2, you're a talented mercenary-cum-noble, you develop a reputation equal to the tasks. Inquisition, it gets stretched. You're a rando who got powers by virtue of 'wrong time, wrong place'. And now you're just...there. Like Rook is meant to have a reputation, sure, but unlike the rest, we don't see that reputation being built or established. In terms of gameplay, I was hoping for classic Dragon Age, not Mass Effect but simplified. It's just a sad entry for a game that a reconstructed studio was riding on. It needed to be damn good, and it's just...fine.

[@snaffu1]

Never planned on playing this after seeing the mess of its development, including the cold-hearted layoffs, but it's always fun to watch Yahtzee take the piss out of a game all the same. Glad to see my apprehension about the game was justified. Hopefully someone can get ahold of this IP and actually do it some justice someday. DA:O was a fantastic game, and actually compelling. This just feels like Andromeda all over again.

[@sarafontanini7051]

hopefully if a new game is made most of the bad shit gets retcon'd and your decisions matter again

[@fixedG]

It's Lego Dragon Age without the Legos.

[@Tyler-gg6xt]

I vote yes for Starfield syndrome😂

[@klissattack]

My wife and i noticed the awkwardness around Verric too. But then it all made sense lol