Sonic X Shadow Generations | Fully Ramblomatic

[@halbarroyzanty2931]

I disagree about your assesment of shadow. It is the complete sincerity with which he is executed that makes him funny. If the game rolled its eyes and made it all ironic it would most likely just come off as sad and insecure

[@Pimploaf_YTP]

The compulsion to wink at the audience has killed so many good jokes

[@iantaakalla8180]

Also, the point of Shadow is that he is the brooding edge to the rest of the Sonic world’s straightforward 90s cool Saturday morning cartoon, and he can justify that by being at the center of the greatest tragedy of the Sonic universe. That is the point of video game Shadow.

[@kefkaexdeath]

if the game rolled its eyes and made it all ironic yahtzee would hate that even more bc it would just feel like he was playing an MCU game that feels embarrassed by its own source material.

[@remylebeau34]

​@@kefkaexdeathwas just thinking how mcu that would be, I hate that, it's like watching come dine with me and that narrator tosser takes the piss out of the guests, that's my job!

[@zachariahmerry2396]

​@@iantaakalla8180 There's also the fact that Sonic hasn't really been Saturday morning cartoon in tone for the majority of the history, so people going "Ughhh.... why is the franchise trying to be serious? This isn't a serious franchise!" kind of shows they don't really know the franchise. The main period where it was just going for a pure Saturday morning cartoon was just the 2010s, and that's the most hated period in the history of the franchise. There's lots of goofy characters, sure, but they're goofy characters doing mostly serious stories.

[@justinhurowitz70]

I’m sick of every single piece of media trying to be “in on the joke”. I want more ridiculous concepts delivered with complete sincerity.

[@edfreak9001]

And if they wanted to poke fun at it without taking the wind out of his sails, just have other characters comment on it lightly. His comment about Rouge potentially ribbing him about it isn't a terrible idea, just don't make it "GET A LOAD OF THIS GUY...." ...though that wouldn't really work here, since the context is actually meant to be pretty serious due to his relationship with Gerald and Maria. Rouge is playful, not a callous [butt entrance]

[@DavidBeaumont]

I liked the humour in Let It Die. Absurd nonsense delivered relatively straight.

[@gwen9939]

If the line "It's like taking candy from a baby. Which is fine by me" wasn't delivered with 100% sincerity it wouldn't be a fraction as funny as it is. Completely out of touch japanese video game execs making video games for "the younger generation" in the brief period every 10 years where they awaken from their rich people cryo-stasis and it's the same kind of early 00s edginess delivered with a completely straight face is a cherished tradition we need to safeguard at all costs. I don't care how many people don't see how peak it is.

[@Seoul_Soldier]

@@gwen9939 Agreed. I love out of touch Japanese execs, at least when they make a game it's not only functional but delightfully goofy. As opposed to their western counterparks that just deliver undiluted cringe directly into my ear holes.

[@mredbadger]

Yeah it’s so boring. The only thing 2010’s Sonic is remembered for is Mania and that one disastrous reboot, and I’m convinced the series would’ve died completely without the movie Barely anyone remembers anything Sonic was doing otherwise, because there was just nothing to talk about. Fans weren’t getting their serious stories and characters, and it isn’t fun to make fun of games that point out the corny shit before you can

[@jeffm7007]

I appreciate how we're on a two game streak now of Yahtzee being thoroughly ambivalent towards a Sonic game for just being all of the stuff that Sonic fans want it to be.

[@kingofank]

That's what I like about Yahtzee though, he tells it how HE sees it. It's not all "well no game is bad". I've watched videos where Yahtzee FUCKING HATED a game and said "well shit, now I want to play it!". Yes, it requires knowing a thing or two about what games he likes, but he's not exactly trying to hide his biases.

[@thaddeusgenhelm8979]

@@kingofank It definitely a quality of a good reviewer to be able to clearly articulate what doesn't work for them and a sense of the why, because, yeah, sometimes that actually tells people "The game you want to play is here" because they will list a bunch of stuff that doesn't work for them, but does for you. Yahtzee is... Somewhat less than perfect in this regard, in my opinion? But that's because the comedy schtick and short form leave less space for it? But he's still very good if you can take that into account.

[@edfreak9001]

@@thaddeusgenhelm8979 yeah, I don't really dig this review but at least it's honest on Yahtzee's part, and learning the tastes of a reviewer is part of contextualizing a review. If you give (a theoretical reviewer) who just despises length JRPGs, a JRPG to review, that's gonna be a review like this. But at least they're being honest about their thoughts.

[@Norrikan]

I would argue that the straight-faced seriousness is part of the charm. Not everything needs to be swaddled in eye-rolling sarcasm all the time, on occasion it's fine to just have the protagonist be a overly self-serious edgleord whose life is pain and who mostly subsists on angst and betrayal. And, it must be said, who also happens to be a hedgehog.

[@rouge939]

Yeah he’ll complain about Joss Whedon and Marvel style writing but that’s what he’s asking for here

[@apierror]

Shadow doesn't even do anything too edgy in this game, unlike in Shadow the Hedgehog. Most of this game is him struggling with grief over someone special to him. He's being the most sincere he's ever been.

[@blackwing1362]

Well, the important bit is that the edge boi is still maximum edge, it's just that everyone else makes fun of him for it.

[@Umbra_Ursus]

It helps we have Team Dark to cover that humor angle. Shadow handles the serious edge, Omega covers the "EXTERMINATE" jokes, and Rouge is basically the team mom.

[@morgantaylor84]

@@rouge939 I was just about to comment the same thing, only I was going to add that he caught himself mid sentence, realized that he's not supposed to want that stuff, and corrected himself back to correct alignment.

[@DeepDiveDevin]

This feels more like a review of the concept of Shadow the hedgehog existing than it does a video game.

[@kevadu]

And the concept of Shadow the hedgehog got a bad review. ...as it should.

[@browut644]

@@kevaduI mean not really? Shadow is obviously a product of his time being made in the early 2000s, but the work sonic team has put into actually making him his own unique character now is cool to see.

[@DeepDiveDevin]

@@kevadu pretty sure what it _should be_ is a review of a video game but I dunno maybe my thinking is just too old-fashioned

[@leithaziz2716]

Somehow, this discussion makes me come to the conclusion that Yatzhee would not understand why Jotaro from JoJo is viewed as cool. (He'd think he's just an edgelord who has no heart, despite showing subtle signs he cares but struggles to express those emotions. I dunno, it drew some parallels.) For anyone who wants an opinion about the gameplay: if you like Sonic 3D gameplay, this is the best executed and polished take on that concept yet. The Hub World is structured simillarly to Sonic Frontiers, but is a lot smaller and dense. Always check several differnet reviews to get a full impression. Or watch footage of the 1st level to see how you feel.

[@TheIccy]

Well yeah, because Yahtzee doesn't actually know how to review games. He just riffs jokes he's come up with about them and people eat it up and take him seriously.

[@NoahInfinity]

It's a meh to Yahtzee... SONIC FANS WE'VE SUCCEEDED ITS A GOOD GAME BY OUR STANDARDS

[@randomdude9630]

he said he didnt like it

[@kingt34]

@@randomdude9630 He literally summarises with "Ehhhh". That's definitely a middle-ground "Meh" response haha

[@julienandrus4169]

I have nothing against the guy, but every one of my favorite games has gotten a meh from him, so IDK

[@neilsharpson996]

Buzz buzz

[@randomdude9630]

@@kingt34 in the review he says he doesnt like the gameplay when he smacks the dudes hat off

[@Owen-zm6sq]

Lampshading the goofiness of your concept and constantly looking back to the audience for approval is how we got the past 10 years of Sonic games, as well as most superhero blockbusters. I'll take sincere melodrama now gladly

[@Adanine]

... You mean like how Sonic 06 did sincere melodrama? Not saying that lampshading isn't cheesy and overdone, but Sonic just doesn't do sincere melodrama well at all.

[@Scabloonshki]

@@Adanine Failed execution isn’t an excuse to not try. Sonic having melodrama is a part of the brand whether people like it or not. It’s what sets it apart from other mascot platformers. That’s the appeal. In a world where Pixar exists and can tell stores with colorful characters while still having strong emotional cores, is it really that crazy to think Sonic can do the same? It makes no sense. The fact Sonic 06 is still used as some kind of smoking gun against this idea almost 20 years after its release is ridiculous. People need to move on.

[@camocaplamo4020]

@@Scabloonshkithese people have no actual evidence that sonic having a serious story is actually conceptually flawed so they have to keep grasping at the same straw man argument they have been grasping at for decades rather than just having an open mind

[@DanGamingFan2406]

I know Yahtzee doesn't care, but just to clear it up at 2:30 That's Eggman's grandfather, Gerald Robotnik. And the girl is Gerald's granddaughter, Maria.

[@howtoappearincompletely9739]

So Dr Ivo Robotnik's sister? Or his first cousin?

[@DanGamingFan2406]

​​@@howtoappearincompletely9739first cousin.

[@thomasisready]

@@howtoappearincompletely9739 First cousin

[@Dw7freak]

Someone didn't watch the credits spoof lol

[@TARINunit9]

It's not even complicated. Old Robotnik was grandfather -- there we summed up the genealogy in four words, this isn't like a JRPG where we bang on about it for three fifths of the final boss

[@kantackistan]

That's why I love Kid Icarus Uprising. It recognizes from day one that a dark edgy clone of the main character is... The perfect target for taking the piss out of.

[@darxoonwasser]

@@kantackistan kid icarus uprising mentioned

[@zoltanstudios]

Uprising was so self aware and fourth-wall breaking I fell so nicely into the story. A shame I have massive hands which hurt like hell after a level. That game deserves a port to Switch.

[@padriazozzriaorizifian8672]

Peak fiction mentioned!! Pittoo's one of the characters of all time.

[@TheBlargMarg]

Too bad it's NEVER going to get a release to the Switch. Nintendo just hating on their own games.

[@kyleshape8645]

Adored the game, hated the controls. But, it was so good I pushed through.

[@fatherpucci-madeinheaven362]

ive never played a single sonic game, but its still hilarious to me that his main criticism of the series is that its a game about silly cartoon animal people that takes itself too seriously, but Undertale is one of his favorite games, aka a game about silly cartoon animal people that takes itself too seriously

[@Mingo-NARUTO_MOBILE]

@@fatherpucci-madeinheaven362 what an ironic lmao

[@hpfan1330]

Apparently characters having relatives is confusing.

[@Rav0ria]

I actually find the earnest seriousness of it endearing. Its the closest any IP can actually come to feel like it was written by an actual 8 year-old

[@oshkeet]

@@Rav0ria I think there’s a happy medium. Rouges playfulness and even omegas literalness can be great fodder for some levity as long as you don’t go full clown mode like se of the more infamous games did. Shadow as the straight man of the group versus the joke itself yknow?

[@TVlord5]

That's 100% how I defend Shadow and his solo game, ESPECIALLY for the time they came out when like Halo was at its peak popularity. Some 10 year old kid might be just a few years too young for the ultraviolent comics or to play Halo and GTA, but they might be able to convince their parents to get it because it's a "Sonic" game and they still get to argue with their friends if the Assault Rifle is better than the Sniper Rifle, they get to fight alongside/against the military, kill the president, get some DBZ glowing rage mode thing, and he says "DAMN!" Like everyone shits on the game for being childish instead of either more adult or more timeless kid friendly and I'm like "Yeah? That's who the game's for: edgy like 9-12 year old boys in the early 00s. In terms of nailing its audience I don't know if there's ever been a game that spot-on" The entire game is stupid and juvenile and wants nothing more than to be taken seriously, just like kids that age.

[@twilightvulpine]

Way too much media is irony poisoned so it's nice that Shadow gets to be his edgy self without any winks and nudges

[@Artista_Frustrado]

this guy gets it; while everyone else is GotG levels of Cynical. Sonic & Mario are still actually earnest

[@benjaminlee985]

Yeah, when I was a kid my reaction to Shadow the Hedgehog wasn't mockery, it was "huh, they really got away with putting a route where you kill the heroes and destroy the Earth in a game rated E10+?" (Well, I made fun of them for giving Shadow a gun, but not for the overall concept.)

[@megamocha2334]

“They never recognize Shadow as the profoundly easy target for mockery that he is.” Because that’s Infinite. Infinite is that guy. And that’s why I love him.

[@cumandshit]

I AM NOT WEAK!!!

[@TonyTheTGR]

Plot twist: It was Shadow all along

[@megamocha2334]

@ Shadow kicked Infinite in the pants literally one time and then Infinite immediately proceeded to throw a multiverse-spanning tantrum. He’s such a pathetic brat that it’s unintentionally adorable.

[@pinguin4898]

you do that to a villain, not a lancer type character made as a foil to the protagonist

[@Artista_Frustrado]

they need to bring back Infinite, they already brought back Iblis & Mephiles, so we clearly are ready for the edge

[@Brown95P]

"They never seem to recognize Shadow as the profoundly easy target for mockery that he is." We already had that Yahtz, it's called Sonic Boom; get with the times, old man. 😂

[@maallos334mi8]

Oh, they’re talking about “Sonic Team,” not the people who can write.

[@somejerk5662]

The comics do that too, usually making him the straight man to wackiest characters.

[@mjc0961]

Sonic Boom isn't a Sonic game, it's a Sonic Boom game. Completely different franchise, completely different plot. It doesn't count in a discussion of mainline Sonic games.

[@KashKey-]

No it absolutely does. It's not canon to the current timeline, sure, but we can't deny the impact Sonic Boom had on the series. And how absolutely miserable that period of time was.​@@mjc0961

[@ChibiTails]

@@mjc0961 Well, if you're gonna be a pedantic little whiner about it, they weren't talking about the game, either. It was about the cartoon.

[@DanGamingFan2406]

The thing is, Sega has taken the piss out of Shadow's edginess on occasion, It was called Sonic Boom last time. Also, the juxtaposition between the colorful, fantastical characters and world, and the dark, serious, emotional tone of the story is exactly what the appeal of Sonic and especially Shadow is. I get that some people can't recognize that.

[@docvince1491]

He doesn’t seem to understand the same for Kirby either.

[@ED-gw9rg]

Yahtzee covers Kirby games???? ​@@docvince1491

[@flaco3462]

yeah he said the same thing about kirby which just exudes lame dad

[@Heavenlyhounds96]

And have Rouge be the one doing it. It'd be like some of Batman's Robins making snark comments for when he's being particularly broody or stubborn.

[@isaacplayer4268]

They have done that, in the Sonic Boom cartoon. Shadow is completely no nonsense in that show, which makes him the perfect target for the sitcom world he finds himself in.

[@DanGamingFan2406]

Well, you know the rules when it comes to Sonic games, a resounding "eh" from Yahtzee is a "pretty good" from those who like Sonic.

[@lavetissene339]

Uh... No it really isn't.

[@watershipup7101]

You've got that right.

[@Scorpio2074]

Let's not kid ourselves - people who like Sonic will play anything with him in it regardless.

[@Arkouchie]

@@Scorpio2074 as someone who likes sonic, no, we called out the BS when sonic 06, and sonic 4 episode 1 happened. We just didn't stop liking sonic. We made fangames and enjoyed the parts we liked. It's also important to know that the sonic fandom isn't a monolith - I'm not talking for all the sonic fandom, just a certain part of it. It's why it seems like the sonic fandom is so fractured - we all know what we like, and what we don't. It's okay that Yahtzee doesn't like it. Sonic gameplay doesn't appeal to everyone - not even all sonic fans like every version of sonic gameplay. Frontiers caused another schism recently, but it's okay - because you don't have to like everything just because it has the franchise's name on it

[@AllardRT]

@@Scorpio2074 Spoken like someone who doesn't know jack about the Sonic fandom.

[@leithaziz2716]

I'm not surprised about Yatzhee taking the piss out of people taking Shadow seriously. I however, fully respect that they did. No matter the aesthetic, you can always treat the characters you created, and that people grew up with, with respect. SEGA themselves have done the opposite for nearly a decade, and it was tiresome. I will always value this direction of sincerity and emotional focus more. For further clarification, I don't consider this "camp". it's a story about a character being forced to face his past and learn to find closure in the end. Those plot beats are why many people find an attachment to Shadow. Not the stupid guns (from one game, mind you) or the edgy one-liners. The aesthetics should not dismiss your abillity to take this seriously. I thought it was all very well done, with good performance from everyone.

[@flaco3462]

you get it hornet

[@connorcampbell-bisson8721]

See, Shadow is an interesting case in general as a product of his time but at the same time.... He's a well-built product of it. Done right, he's got a sincere edge that is endearing in the same way Sonic's "mascot with attitude" style is. Like, I know I'm in a very small camp when I say this, but I legitimately didn't mind Shadow picking up gun in Shadow 05. Because that made sense to me. It falls under the same base logic as to why his primary fighting tactic is spamming teleports and time stops, he's ruthlessly pragmatic. He *could* blast you with some chaos spears, but a gun requires less energy on his part, so if one's available, he'll take it and shoot you.

[@thekiss2083]

Aesthetics absolutely are an avenue toward not taking something seriously. Just because you don't find Shadow ridiculous doesn't mean the rest of us "shouldn't" 😜

[@leithaziz2716]

@@thekiss2083 I don't really know what you judge as "aesthetic", but I just wanna remind people that a show like Bojack Horseman exists. It being animated and about talking animals didn't stop that show from being one of the darkest explorations of trauma and the cycles of self-destruction.

[@mjc0961]

The problem, as usual with Sonic: _they already did that plot._ Shadow the Hedgehog was already about Shadow being forced to figure out and then face his past, Sonic 06 already contained plot points for Shadow where he learns to find closure and a new meaning to his life. Shadow Generation isn't offering anything new, it's just a repeat of stuff we've already seen. It's like how they did Tails being scared and relying on Sonic but having to learn to be strong on his own and stand up to Eggman all within Sonic Adventure, only to decide to recycle Tails being scared and relying on Sonic in Forces and having to move him past it again in Frontiers. It's like how they kept reusing the idea that Knuckles is gullible and falls for Eggman telling him that Sonic is the bad guy. FFS, write something new or don't write anything at all. If SEGA is going to bring back these characters and try to do stories that they expect us to take seriously, they need to write something new. They don't have my attention by retreading old ground, especially when the old ground wasn't that good in the first place. And if they can't do it, just go back to the 2D style games where none of these characters talked. Sonic 3 & Knuckles is still the peak of storytelling in this franchise. Maybe Sonic Advance 2. They're able to do so much more, make me feel so much more, with just a few sprites than they are with fully 3D models reciting the stupidest scripts I've ever heard in my life.

[@grfrjiglstan]

I assure you, the last thing Sonic games need right now is to take themselves less seriously. In fact, even when Sonic's at his most self-depreciatory, Shadow always seems to be immune to the lampshade curse. May be why he still gets taken seriously by the fans.

[@Castersvarog]

Also like, does the series really need more Self-deprecating? Everyone was freaking miserable when sonic constantly kept doing that for the past decade. Now the series feels more earnest I wanna say, like the realization that being somewhat cringy isn’t that big of a deal and enjoying life more because of it.

[@AllardRT]

We just got out of Sonic's Meta Era. We sure as hell don't need another. Something being stupid but earnest is always better than hanging ten thousand lampshades on it and insulting the audience for tuning in in the first place.

[@atoth62]

Maria: Shadow! You're complicated! Shadow: Maria!

[@mjc0961]

The very most important thing Sonic games need right now (other than SEGA to allow proper development time so they can be finished and polished) is to take themselves less seriously. Shadow Generations is a very unwelcome return to the most terrible writing in the franchise. As bad as Sonic Colors trying way too hard to make us laugh at "Baldy McNosehair" is, I'll still listen to that any day of the week over another stupid story about the stupid sarcastic air quotes """ultimate life form"""

[@AllardRT]

@@mjc0961 They were taking themselves less seriously throughout the entirety of 2010s and nobody liked it. Shadow Generations is a very welcome return to the exact kind of stuff people want from the series.

[@AceofShadow]

If Yahtzee finds Shadow's story annoying then good thing he's not a movie reviewer so he doesn't need to watch Sonic 3. The movie director is a massive Shadow fanboy and will be taking his backstory 100% seriously.

[@jonathandear4914]

even has keanu reeves playing shadow in it. looking forward to it xD

[@blahthebiste7924]

Ok I need to see this

[@vinceb.8363]

Well if you're gonna make something silly and ridiculous its better to fully embrace it. Thats why baki was such a smash hit. It took its stupidity serious instead of layering everything in "irony"

[@SomeBlokeOrWhatever]

It's gonna be so fucking peak.

[@swguygardner]

You kinda need to take it seriously. Not "you" the audience, but "you" the storyteller. It involves a world military organisation funding cataclysmic weapons research, then murdering a child to cover it up. It's hard to pull off a tongue-in-cheek approach without it feeling unnecessarily crass and tonaly off. But as an audience? Take as much piss out of the "Ultimate Lifeform" being a little hedgehog man with roverboots who pg-13 swears sometimes XD Some people (myself included) can enjoy it unironically, others (also myself included, tbh) can enjoy it for being something so silly but that takes itself so seriously. If IT was like "Hey, look how funny it is that our goofy hedgehog guy has a dark and gritty backstory! We take ourselves way too seriously, amirite?" it just comes off kinda desperate and lampshade-y? Like, you can't get in on the joke if YOU ARE the joke? You just make the joke not fun anymore?

[@MaxM210]

I have to say, I'm pretty over this whole "Anti-sincerity" thing people like to do, especially when discussing Sonic. I know Yahtzee isn't a Sonic fan, and probably isn't aware of this, but since Sonic Unleashed, the franchise had been in a state of hyper self aware, self deprecation, where the series simply refused to take itself seriously. I like Deadpool and Meta humor as much as the next geek, but I think the vast majority of people have grown pretty sick of Marvel Movie style, "they fly now?!" humor where nothing is ever allowed to be sincere. When Yahtzee asks why they don't take the piss out of Shadow, the correct answer is, they did. for years. And we're all sick of it. We are all collectively sick of being told we're all stupid babies for liking Sonic and liking Shadow, and taking him seriously. We're sick of Sega treating Sonic like a meme for the benefit of people who never liked Sonic to begin with. I'm all for series branching out and trying to attract new fans, but there's a huge difference between that and trying to appeal to people who were never fans to begin with. I'm a big fan of Arin Hanson, but making him of all people a brand ambassador was the ultimate testament to Sega taking the wrong approach. A series should not be afraid to take itself seriously, even in the face of a culture that insists that nothing should ever be taken seriously. I don't take issue with yahtzee not liking Sonic gameplay or its method of story telling, but I do take issue with the argument thats its wrong for these games to be sincere.

[@rouge939]

I agree. I remember his Forces review saying the same thing. I’m so glad Sega isn’t listening to these people anymore. I like Yahtzee and think he’s funny but catering to people who don’t even like the series by making it a big joke is a horrible idea

[@Orange_Swirl]

Since Sonic Unleashed??? Huh??? Usually it's Sonic Colors that gets pointed out as the first...I'm not really sure why you singled that title out. Edit: Or Sonic Free Riders.

[@thegrouchization]

@@Orange_Swirl I think they mean "since" as in "everything released after", rather than including Unleashed. Which in terms of main series releases, would be accurate.

[@emerl298]

@@MaxM210 Unleashed had a pretty serious plot(while still having some goofy scenes), and Black Knight came after it in 2009 and that was the last time before Frontiers when Sonic had a great balance of cartoony and serious(and is one of the best stories in Sonic games). Colors was when the Saturday morning cartoon/4th wall breaking writing started that didn’t really work.

[@TwiliPaladin]

​@@Orange_SwirlBoth of those would be even less accurate. He's been like this since Adventure.

[@SuperCaitball]

I'm not even a big Sonic fan, and this video felt incredibly narrow-sighted and dickishly shallow. This just sounded like a guy walking into a game expecting to hate it, and making up his own reasons to hate it, all the while calling for Sega to do something _literally everyone hated Sega doing_ for years.

[@AllardRT]

It felt and sounded like that because that's what it was.

[@kirbyofthestarsfan]

The IGN review of Roxas gained a friend today, why do reviewers like these get paid to hateplay something they won't make an effort of even liking lol It's dunkey level of poor media criticism, this guy sounds like he's 12 and rambling about how a character shouldn't exist lmao, Shadow got every evil counterpart in fiction cleared because he's so much more than that. So happy gamers today aren't as blind into calling reviewers as gospel as they were in the 2010s because this video won't make any impact I bet haha

[@BE-fw1lr]

@@kirbyofthestarsfan God this is a funny comment. Show this to anyone over the age of 15 and they'll call you insane.

[@sonicmeerkat]

@@BE-fw1lr no I fully agree with him as a 26, hell as a 15 year old I was gaslit into hating games I otherwise would have liked because they push their nitpicks as genuine criticisms or miss the point of the game in bad faith. This video is even an example of that, because yatsee doesn't personally find investment in sonic he's pushing the story being invested in it's characters as a flaw. Even talking from a comedy perspective, shows like only fools and horses worked because the stupidity was played straight, not everything that has a ridiculous premise needs to be Deadpool.

[@BE-fw1lr]

@@sonicmeerkat Yes thank you "sonicmeerkat", I'll take your unbiased opinion of the subject.

[@chippotato5647]

A lot of people are pointing out the various flaws in this review and I'm cosigning all of them, but I would also like to point out that there is something deeply (and almost for sure unintentionally) funny about how harshly Yahtzee is lambasting Shadow the Hedgehog for being "super edgy" while also having a video style that is currently a collection of pngs with a red and black background color scheme and a heavy metal theme song to open and close it all out.I wouldn't even consider myself a fan of Sonic, but it's weird that this video gets so many basic things wrong about Shadow and the appeal of the franchise in general.

[@rouge939]

Also yahtzees whole gimmick is being negative and hating everything. So ironic that he’s complaining about shadow being too edgy and serious

[@iantaakalla8180]

I get that he likes very sincere attempts at depth and Sonic and Shadow’s stuff does not do it for him and so he defaults to a medium witty snark, but when he relies on decades-old takes, he really relies on decades-old takes. It’s not even that it’s hypocritical because this is his brand, but I’ve noticed that when he really does not care about a franchise, he resorts to 2000s opinions about those things, which is fair for he started in the 2000s, but still.

[@goatsoup]

@@iantaakalla8180 i mean yahtzee straight up thinks like the series went bad when they started talking- pretty sure hes said that in a review before i dont really mind, i appreciate he still sticks by what he personally thinks and isn't changing his tune all of a sudden when it's not cool to have this opinion anymore. so many game journalists/outlets used to say the same stuff 15 years ago.. all until it wasnt cool to anymore, and now all of a sudden they're like "sonic was always good".. lol

[@AllardRT]

@@goatsoup Imagine changing your opinions and reevaluating things over time.

[@RemyRaccoon]

Nah. Sonic hasn’t been taking itself seriously for years and for the most part it hasn’t worked. It’s only since it started giving a rat’s ass and taking itself seriously that the series has started picking itself back up again. Pretty much EVERYONE loves Shadow Generations so far

[@andrewkoblas5396]

Y’know, it’s funny, I usually never comment and I can’t remember the last Sonic game I played, it’s been ages. But something about Yahtzee’s cynicism towards Shadow felt a little… off? In the same way his critique of Doom: Eternal’s focus on backstory felt off or how he mocked the gun that shoots bone shrapnel from skulls in the upcoming Doom sequel. I think, culturally, we’re majoratively swinging back on the pendulum away from “eye rolling self aware cynicism” and more towards “playing it straight no matter what,” which I’m all for. Irony is great and all, and sure, it can be entertaining to take the piss out of media made solely for edgy shock value, but I think a lot of people (myself included) are burned out on filing down what is “allowed” to be played straight. Yeah, Shadow is edgy, he racks an MP5 and he Doesn’t Trust Anyone, who cares? That’s what makes him cool. We all have our own thresholds for cynicism and clearly Shadow is well past Yahtzee’s line, but for those of us sick of the “haha let’s all make fun of the edgy black rat with a gravelly voice” sarcasm that’s been stealing sincerity in media for the past decade or two, sticking to Shadow’s edginess is 110% more interesting and actually enjoyable.

[@dragoncrashhero12]

Ah, even as a Sonic fan always enjoy seeing Yahtzee's take, even knowing he will never like the franchise. Mostly all valid complaints if it's not your thing, except the part of Sonic Team making mockery of Shadow. Thing is they absolutely have mocked him for a very long time, erasing him from main games and all social media targeted at "ahahah how edgy lol". But there's people that genuinenly liked him, regardless of how silly it is, so Shadow Gens was catered towards that crowd. The fans are tired of the self parody the franchise has been on for a long time, we know it's all cheesy, but who cares? Let the cheese be itself

[@icravedeath.1200]

That animated short proved that it can kinda work if they go 110% with it and embrace it seriously😂😂

[@aymenjbaili]

There is nothing valid about the review It is personal opinions yes but that doesn't mean his opinions are valid

[@dragoncrashhero12]

@@aymenjbaili They're valid. 3D Sonic gameplay is not for everyone, it can feel too railroaded and reflex dependant. As for the open hub world, yes, it is small and no real purpuse to it if one is not interested in collecting artwork and music. Me? I love that shit, love the exhilarating levels and making quick decisions on what route to take, and love collecting artwork and fooling around, small hub isn't a problem because the main levels are the meat. Gotta learn to see both sides of the coin

[@Semudara]

@@aymenjbaili That's... completely absurd. He played the game, his opinions are based on that experience and (mostly) don't contain any factual inaccuracies... therefore, a valid opinion. You can disagree with it, and that is also valid.

[@aymenjbaili]

@@dragoncrashhero12 that's an opinion but that doesn't mean it is valid or right or comprehensive It just means it is personal and you respect it based on someone different tastes and interests and what just appeals to them but that doesn't mean their arguments are right

[@blackdragoncyrus]

I've seen fanfics with similar titles before.

[@levb258]

Sonic X Shadow isn't even a title, it's practically a ship tag.

[@duckwantbreads]

Given it's Sonic Team it was probably intentional, it wouldn't be the first time they've acknowledged the shippers. I think they did a Q&A with Sonic and Shadow's VAs (in character) a couple of years ago and they referenced it.

[@gabrielsofta944]

"Hey, Sonic! Prepare yourself for my Chaos Spear!" "Hnnnng. You can Rail my Canyon anytime, Shadow!"

[@yournormaluser...]

WHOAAAAA

[@smugsneasel]

04:48 Wuh? That is entirely untrue. They've made fun of themselves and Shadow's place in the franchise many times. It's only in recent years that they've pulled back and now when they do it, it's not overtly self-depreciating in an attempt to be congruent with meme culture.

[@SomeBlokeOrWhatever]

Acknowledging that there was a whole era of metatextual cringeworthy Sonic games mostly fed by the attitude of youtubers like himself (they put Arin FUCKING Hanson as a franchise ambassador, ffs. A man who literally can't play video games to save his life) would be too much for Yathz. I for one am glad we have swung past the age of ironic "catering to youtubers" Sonic and get to have games that enjoy themselves again. Until Sega changes their mind again, which they will... They will.

[@flaco3462]

i'm glad this comment exists because it explains it so much better than i could've, seriously the last thing anyone needs is to go back to sega trying to be hip with the youtube crowd who's never liked a sonic game in their lives past the first 3

[@cloudkitt]

@@SomeBlokeOrWhatever I agree, but I'll say in Yahtzee's defense that there is probably a space in-between where Sonic and his less serious friends give Shadow a hard time without going full 4th-wall-irreverant-modern-disney with it.

[@Emily12471]

​​@@cloudkitt the thing is that Shadows story is really hard to take the piss out of in world without making the piss taker look like a total ass Like Shadow lost his entire family in a military raid, got thrown in stasis for a while and then realized everything he did since waking up was going against his sisters dying wish Like how do you take the piss out of that without being meta or making the piss taker come off as an asshole

[@AllardRT]

@@SomeBlokeOrWhatever You said it. The last thing I need is the games insulting me for ever liking the series in the first place. No thanks, we've got cringey boring youtubers like Yahtzee for that. Also... yeah, Sega has... a knack for ruining things out of nowhere. I'll be the first to say it, I don't harbor much hope for the future, but I'm happy with how we have it right now. Shadow Gens is the best game since... well, OG Gens.

[@melephs_cap]

I think Yahtz might be a bit too cynical to understand that people still like Shadow.

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

I don't think he is, I think he just has a point that Shadow is basically just an edgy OC character that both Sega and the fans take too seriously.

[@flaco3462]

yeah he's too uncool to get it

[@thomasisready]

@@OtakuUnitedStudio well, sega hasn't taken him seriously since 2006 and just started doing so again with this game.

[@flaco3462]

@@thomasisready yeah what he said at the end falls apart when you remember sega's been trying to be hip with the kids in thinking shadow's lame ever since they got that twitter account, taking him seriously with this game is NEW again because they've been having sonic 06 remorse for almost 20 years

[@melephs_cap]

@@OtakuUnitedStudio You can poke in at his character design all day; it is very silly from a certain point of view. But there's no denying he's at or above the popularity level of Sonic himself.

[@kaminskasmitchell]

The idea that it would be better to have the other characters mock Shadow for his grimdarkness is so cliche and Joss Whedon-ish

[@MHF013]

Every single time Yahtzee reviews a Sonic game he complains about the series being earnest and taking itself too seriously. And every time he gets responses from fans saying that Sonic being serious is what they like about it. It's funny how diametrically opposed both sides are. For the record, I completely disagree with Yahtzee here. The earnest adolescent edgyness is exactly what makes Shadow so appealing to me. I like that Sonic actually takes itself seriously and tries to have a story and continuity now.

[@DerrickWilson-fm7vc]

I cannot stress how much I do not want Sonic Team to take their stories less seriously. That’s how we got a decade of just that. Sonic winking to the camera about how silly all of this is, and it’s not remotely funny. It’s way funnier when the story is taken seriously, and those kind of stories lead to more interesting set pieces for levels

[@SugarPunk420]

That's cause we got some pretty lazy writers but with this new one "Ian Flynn" he clearly has a strong passion for this franchise and is willing to actually put some dedication and love into it, and while he definitely isn't the best writer, he's still the best one we've gotten in a whole decade so we can appreciate that at least.

[@mredbadger]

Sincere stories are more fun for fans, and more fun to make fun of if the game’s shit

[@Arkouchie]

Im a sonic fan, and i think the gameplay on display here is excellent. Unlike how im attempted to be painted, it's okay that yahtzee doesnt like it - its clear that the gameplay just doesnt appeal to him, but i do think that if you enjoy fast paced gameplay that focuses on skill mastery and replaying to improve, Shadow Generations is genuinely one of the best out there. It takes the gameplay of sonic generations and takes that decade and demonstrates that sonic team actually still knows how to make it work - and is actually even better at it now.

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

Good to know! Thank you, arkouchie!

[@flaco3462]

he's in the same boat as egoraptor that anything after the first 3 is shit really so it was a foregone conclusion

[@SimuLord]

"...if you enjoy fast paced gameplay that focuses on skill mastery and replaying to improve," ...then go play Neon White.

[@Arkouchie]

@@SimuLord Neon white is also excellent! But you'd probably also like this!

[@GameDevYal]

I really wanna see like, Platinum Games make a sequel to Shadow The Hedgehog: The Game in the style of Metal Gear Rising. Go all out with the hammy voice acting and larger than life characters, have cooler weapons and fight bigger giant robots. Being forced to be a game where you mostly rollerskate around is holding back Shadow's potential.

[@vi6ddarkking]

Well, the stark contrast between the cartoony character and fantastical world with the serious and epic stories is why people loved the Sonic series.

[@zocialix]

Exactly, why do people not make the same argument about Dragon Ball... It's absurd. In both series you've humans and anthropromorphs living alongside within a fictional Earth like planet. If Dragon Ball can exist then Sonic IP can too.

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

The sheer absurdity of the juxtaposition is fun.

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

​@@zocialixprobably cause the anthros are relegated to comedy side kicks and, one time, edgy fursonas we all mocked thoroughly

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

Weird but that's the appeal of narnia I suppose

[@flaco3462]

people like it because it's cool

[@NotSoGenesiz]

this feels like a video straight out of 2008….. but it doesn’t work at all bc it’s just a genuinely good sonic game 😭

[@dannykazari]

You can really tell he's not a Sonic fan because he makes fun of the thing Sonic fans have been wanting and asking for for years, for the series to take itself seriously again. It's part of the fun.

[@bunsmasterbunny]

I’m glad people like you are in the minority (and not even the vocal minority anymore.). Sucks for you but dark/epic/serious Sonic is back and here to stay because they realized people with your opinions are not the majority and they should have never appealed to you. This video getting cooked on twitter and for good reason.

[@aysaqchaudhry6054]

You guys remember those things you thought were cool when you were like 12 but find embarrassing now? They're still cool!

[@BE-fw1lr]

I mean a lot of kids these days think Jake Paul and Mr Beast are cool, are adults not supposed to find them embarrassing?

[@AKDot98]

I don't think Shadow needs to have the piss taken out of him. There's more comedy potential in confidently and unironically leaning into how silly and melodramatic the character is. I think Shadow Generations is actually exactly this, leaning heavily into making Shadow more brooding and dark and badass but in an anime way and not in a Michael Bay way so that it feels in on the joke. Him turning down an invitation to Sonic's birthday party with offers of cake and free food to go skating and flipping down a hallway with rocket boots is hilarious and yet the animation and action is just effortlessly cool, it is kind of undeniable to me.

[@vigorouslethargy]

Shadow is akin to Saiyan Saga Piccolo. Previously the villain, hesitant to actually form bonds with any of the heroes, and even after he does he's too proud (or socially inept) to show it. He's the self reliant introvert and Rouge is kinda the extrovert friend that pulls him out of the house every now and then.

[@Juno_Gin]

A lot of these jokes and criticisms are either over 10 years old, or just untrue.

[@justinrodriguez5957]

I legit did not expect that ending where Yahtz would go "Why can't you be like.....oh fuck no! Take me with you Shadow!" 🤣

[@Nowolf]

it is funny, because it reflects that in any other case, he'd complain about games not having enough faith in themselves to take their own story seriously. "you always need a main character making ironic quips and asides". Realizing that Shadow presents the alternative: "yes, the ultimate life form is shaped like a hedgehog and I don't see the slightest reason why you should consider that amusing. Chaos control!"

[@thomasisready]

@@Nowolf People criticizing the tone of Sonic games always swing between "This series is too stupid, it shouldn't take itself so seriously" and "This feels like a kids' cartoon, why are the characters so annoying?"

[@justinrodriguez5957]

@Nowolf Yup, as one of his biggest complaints against modern Sonic is tone inconsistency. Here Shadow, plays it consistently straight and when Yahtz realized what he was advocating for he was like "Nope, nevermind. Edgy Black Hedgehog with tragic past? I'll roll with that." 😅

[@_LightYagami]

If you ever look back on Sonic Colors and Lost World and wonder why the stories for those games are the way they are just remember they were made for people like Yahtzee. I am so glad that Sonic Team is not pandering to non-fans anymore.

[@meapickle]

And I do recall yhatzee being more positive towards sonic colors

[@harryvass9018]

@@meapickle Sonic colours sucked.

[@meapickle]

@harryvass9018 not according to a lot of people including fans

[@Eggscramblercomms]

Sonic already tried rolling his eyes and riffing on everything on that happens and everyone who shows up. It’s by far the most offensive era of this series and nobody should wish for these games to be that tongue in cheek about themselves again. sonic halfheartedly mentioning in every single game that he always beats eggman, and then pausing for applause like he dropped a scathing zinger one-liner, “baldy mcnosehair[end line]” being tortured for six months and then stepping out of his cell asking for fucking chili dogs like nothing happened…I would much rather a writer tell their inept story with genuine interest and effort then go back to sonic’s pontac & graff era.

[@thomasisready]

In my opinion, Ian Flynn did an amazing job with the game's story, the Dark Beginnings shorts and Gerald's Journal.

[@Eggscramblercomms]

@ the journal and DB is great, but this game’s story is almost as wireframe as sonic gens’. Doom’s declarations have no impact or influence on shadow, and any sign of him losing his way is resolved within seconds by Maria before anything even happens. The entire story can be boiled down to shadow and black doom asking if they can stop each other for two hours and you wouldn’t lose any nuance or intrigue. The ramifications of preserving maria and gerald’s life don’t even get explored before the idea is shot down.

[@thomasisready]

@Eggscramblercomms Well, if Doom's influence had any effect on Shadow, it would kind of undo his entire character arc from Shadow 2005 and Sonic 2006. Shadow has moved on from Maria and Gerald's deaths, as Rouge repeats after you clear Chaos Island, and even though he has to face the possibility of saving them, Shadow in the end accepts that he can't and shouldn't do that and that he has to cherish the impossible reunion they had thanks to the Time Eater (although Gerald and Maria don't know about their demise, and even if Gerald starts to connect the dots he begs Shadow not to tell him about the future).

[@technoboop1890]

Bro who plays sonic for the story, like do you play Mario because you're invested in the character of princess peach? No ofc not its for the gameplay

[@TwiliPaladin]

​@@technoboop1890Hi, it's me. I'm the person who plays Sonic for the story.

[@HeavyMetalMouse]

I've kinda always felt that taking Shadow and his story so seriously *is* the joke. You have all these brightly colored forest animals and Shadow's trying to do Othello as performed by My Chemical Romance, and absolutely nobody treats it as anything other than genuine. It's great. :)

[@rouge939]

Yeah some people are just afraid of admitting Shadow is cool or that edgy hard rock in Sonic games is dope. It’s ok for something to be cringey and cool at the same time

[@flaco3462]

i guess batman's backstory is also a joke

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@flaco3462 I mean, Batman hasn't been exempt from critique of his character and whether his methods of cleaning up Gotham are useful, but I think what makes Shadow feel more goofy to some people is more like if Batman existed in PJ Masks instead of the DC universe, but every character still takes him completely seriously.

[@mariefurukawa2627]

Sonic is a shounen series. The criticism only works if you also apply to literally of all of anime. No one complains about Dragon Ball having 'too serious' plot lines, even though they all have colourful hair and there are characters named after underwear. And it's not like Shadow is this over-serious character suddenly dropped into a completely flowery crayon-drawn world - even the goofier games have their more serious elements. Yahtzee has made similar comments about Kirby, I just don't think he can wrap his head around more serious plot points in a series that isn't gritty.

[@TwiliPaladin]

​@@rouge939It's probably worth pointing out that Shadow's genre is industrial rock, not hard rock.

[@xOrangelinkx]

heaven forfend a piece of media take itself seriously and present itself genuinely instead of taking ironic self deprecating jabs at itself like an mcu movie shadow the hedgehog is the coolest character in fiction and I'm tired of pretending he's not

[@JustPoka]

I understand not liking Sonic games but this entire video felt more like “Shadow the Hedgehog is stupid and lame” rather than an actual game review.

[@SugarPunk420]

I don't understand why non sonic fans like to make fun of sonic games for having serious tones, they fail to understand that the stories is what makes the sonic franchise so good it's why so many people including myself love it so much, the franchise isn't goofy cartoon animals going on goofy dumb adventures its so much more then that, the fact it takes itself seriously just shows that there's heart put into it, im glad we have a new writer for the sonic games who is actually putting passion and care into the plot and not just making these characters one dimensional

[@purplebruh947]

Average millennial behaviour. Everything needs to be either made for literal children like Mario or for "cool, sarcastic and cynical adults" like Marvel movies. Well, that just happened!

[@shrobbyy]

@@purplebruh947 I grew up with Mario, experienced Sonic pretty late in my life and Sonic made me dying for a mainline Mario game with a serious tone

[@PeteyPirahna77]

He addressed this in his Sonic Frontiers review and also made an entire video about tonal disconnect largely focused on Sonic. "the stories is what makes the sonic franchise so good" The Sonic franchise isn't good lol

[@SugarPunk420]

@@PeteyPirahna77 you can't say the franchise isn't good if everyone is praising it's latest game, people are now even excited for more content, if anything the franchise is finally getting better

[@Thanatology101]

​@@purplebruh947 You're prolly too young to know this, but that trend is not indigenous to Millennials by any measure, easily predating their adulthood by about two decades. Most of the upper echelons in these companies are still Gen X at the youngest. There was a period where people were not terminally online, and culture was stickier. Those writing trends have their roots very deeply planted there.

[@AFriendlyElfFella]

Whenever Yahtzee reviews a Sonic game it reads like he’s trying very hard to prove to the bullies he isn’t a Sonic fan

[@flaco3462]

that is the perfect analogy

[@justinrodriguez5957]

@@AFriendlyElfFella To be fair, this time around I thought Marty got him to review this one. 😅

[@philipkelly7369]

or maybe he just isn't a sonic fan and he's coming across that way because you are a sonic fan

[@AFriendlyElfFella]

@@philipkelly7369 Whoever told you I like Sonic is a dirty liar I could never

[@griffnuts]

Rightly so

[@soldier257]

“Dear God, what am i saying?!” That’s it folks, Sega have finally made the Sonic game that made Yahtzee view Sonic in a positive light and it drove him mad.

[@AB-fh9zh]

Gottem.

[@MaskedHeroLucky]

I want the exact opposite actually. I really want to go back to the days when the story was taken seriously. Where Eggman holds Amy at gunpoint and almost kills Sonic.

[@rouge939]

The level in SA2 where you run through it as Sonic while Eggman tells you to hurry up or he’ll kill Amy was sick

[@mjc0961]

I was never taking those stories seriously. I was always wondering why they were taking themselves seriously when they were clearly so stupid and unserious. I was always wondering what was wrong with "blue hedgehog runs fast and stops a fat man trying to take over the world by turning animals into robots." These games have always been so much better when the characters aren't talking and the extent of the plot is in the manual and maybe little between level cutscenes like Sonic 3 or Sonic Mania. SEGA's always trying way too hard and it's not endearing, it's not enjoyable, it's just embarrassing. It's not even good when they try to do the more jokey style crap. The problem with Sonic Colors lightening the tone is that it's _still_ expecting us to take what should have been throwaway jokes like "Baldy McNosehair" seriously. It got a chuckle the first time, maybe the second. By the 3rd 4th and 5th I was just rolling my eyes, it wasn't that funny guys, let it go.

[@mskelter]

@@mjc0961 I think what bothers me about sentiments like yours is that they essentially imply that franchises like Sonic shouldn't try to evolve, that, it is inherently wrong for them to try to evolve and not that SEGA's attempts at evolving have ended in failure. Mario started out (and in many ways still is) as a franchise that was very light on the story. One day they decided to try something more story-focused and we got Paper Mario. I have the feeling that most people who decry Sonic's more serious attempts at story also think very highly of something like Thousand Year Door. In the modern era, games aren't just things that you buy for your kids to play with. They have narratives and complexities that make them appealing to a wide range of people. I don't think there's anything wrong with Sonic wanting to evolve with the industry, instead of being abandoned as a product of his time. That their attempts at doing so have had varyingly bad results does not mean this is something that is not worth trying. I'm not really offended by the idea of someone disliking a Sonic game. I'm not even a big fan of Sonic. What offends me is the idea people have that you should never EVER try something, that it will ALWAYS be bad, that some concepts are simply not worth bothering with. As someone who highly values video games as a medium for narrative, for artistic enrichment, that just bothers me at a fundamental level. It's restrictive, for very shallow reasons.

[@Quyzbuk86]

Consider visiting literally anything with Sally in it then. Actual stakes.

[@ehhorve857]

@@mskelter yahtzee likes Thousand Year Door.

[@bluerious5475]

genuinely don't get why you hate the idea of a character doing anything sincere if they aren't the most realistic, brooding, serious characters to exist when plenty of media has told heart-wrenching, sincere stories with cartoonish or absurd designs.

[@harrymitchell3885]

yahtzee doesn’t like this game of anthropomorphic animals taking themselves too seriously…. but loves undertale…..

[@skyslasher2297]

2:31 It's his grandfather.

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

Ah, so the moustache barbers are a long guild

[@flaco3462]

yahtzee forgot first names existed please understand

[@icarue993]

I think that's Robotnik, and the orange mustage is Eggman... I think...

[@ArsonRaboot]

​@@icarue993 Eggman is a derogatory nickname created by Sonic, as established in Sonic Adventure and the Sonic Movies.

[@MrThirtyH]

@@ArsonRaboot TECHNICALLY in Japan his name was always Eggman. That's why he uses Eggman as a password on his ship in SA1 and all of his big machines are named 'Egg _____.' But since they called him Robotnik AND Eggman in SA1, it makes it seem like he's just REALLY leaning into the insult Sonic gave him so it doesn't hurt his feelings anymore.

[@mix3k818]

Sonic fans getting something good instead of a mixed bag is a miracle. Same as most former 1990s furry gaming mascots getting anything.

[@iantaakalla8180]

It would be pretty cool to see Gex get a new game. They’re cannibalizing everything; they better make it absolute.

[@AllardRT]

@@iantaakalla8180 Unfortunately all Gex is getting is an emulated rerelease of the original games.

[@silentglyph3751]

They've been afraid of taking the series seriously for so long, the actual sincerity in this storyline and not just "huehuehuehue we're meta *wink*! Look at how much this sucks!" is a breath of fresh air. This review is just one good ribbing of the Sonic franchise as a whole, but Sonic fans have very few complaints about the story and gameplay both.

[@rushink]

If I got anything from this review is that this guy wants Sonic to be written with Marvel humor to take away from the seriousness of the situation because "no one could take this seriously ever, so it HAS to be a comedy". But I guess the point of this is I'm supposed to be entertained by some guy being pretentious about something he doesn't care about? idk

[@SandwitchZebra]

nah because if Sonic did have Marvel humor he’d complain about it too

[@iatenailsforbreakfast8209]

"they should start taking themselves less seriously" yes, that is what Sega has been doing for the last 10 years and it has sucked every single time

[@charlessaint7926]

I'm so out of touch with the outside world. If Yahtzee did not review these games, I wouldn't know they've been released.

[@SimuLord]

I feel the same way about video game media in general. The contrast between the video game-adjacent stuff I put on in the background so I have something to break the dead silence of the accounting software at work and the games I actually play when I get home is charcoal and titanium dioxide.

[@GameFreak412]

I would't classify a sonic game as the outside world haha. Not knowing it exists is fine.

[@nicklager1666]

You have to understand dear viewer that when Sonic came there was a space for cool edgy mascot characters. Today we would probably just say "well arent you just adorable with your angry eyes sonic and shadow". Sees Linkin Park poster immediatly thinks of Chester Bennington. I hope you have found peace. Rest in Peace. You are missed.

[@ligtningdog6399]

It's just like the Simpsons. At the time, Sonic was the part of the counter-culture movement. But after 20 years, he's just part of culture.

[@thomastakesatollforthedark2231]

Gen x was weird în it's rebellious phase, huh

[@therealrakuster]

I miss the mid 2000s edge, the music was good and it was at least fun.

[@concinnus]

@@therealrakuster Correction: _Toxicity_ was good. But no better than 90s edge, e.g. _Rage Against the Machine_

[@ScarfKat]

I am tired as frick of writing doing the whole wink at the camera trick just to say "Wow isn't this so goofy?" Personally I'm GLAD they actually take themselves seriously with this because it feels like most stuff doesn't anymore.

[@Kujaguy]

Ah, Yahtzee back at it with another "why doesn't Sonic hire Joss Whedon for writing" take. It's one thing to criticize a game for not meeting its goal, but c'mon.

[@kingsleycy3450]

Seems the core Sonic fans really love the serious fantasy sci fi plots, and if there is anyone the Sonic franchise doesn’t want to alienate, it’s the remaining Sonic fans

[@geldonyetich]

The Sonic canon has always been in a sort of awkward space where half the fandom wants them to be as serious and/or adult-themed and/or in catering to fetishes as possible, and the other half (the one not on DeviantArt) is fairly content with them just being a video game backdrop. And SEGA's just there awkwardly at the reins swerving furiously in both directions trying to keep the money coming in at an optimal rate.

[@ligtningdog6399]

Make sense. The very concept of Sonic is superpowered Mickey Mouse with a pg-13 vocabulary.

[@JudaBoi]

Yea bro has no idea what he's talking about. Sonic Team has been VERY close with thr fan base for this game.

[@geldonyetich]

@@JudaBoi I'm not sure where you're interpreting trying to please two sides of a fanbase as not being very close with a fanbase. On the contrary, it's *perhaps too close*. But the point is that the awkwardness of trying to please both crowds comes across in the end products, and the Shadow The Hedgehog character is quite nearly the epitome of that.

[@pinktrutle1490]

"two sides of a fanbase" not there isn't lol. All of the fandom want the more serious anime stuff. Look at Dark beginnings. lol

[@TwiliPaladin]

The former is like two or three people ever, and the latter is just a less extreme segment of a greater half. Most of the fanbase is either people asking for more story-focused games like Shadow gens, or people asking for story-lighter games and pushing the idea that story doesn't matter in a game.

[@JorgeLopez-qj8pu]

Yahtzee If you dont want review something... DON'T! I thought that was the point of creating Semi-Ramblomatic

[@heroicgangster9981]

the ending joke of you realizing writing where characters don't take stuff seriously is also some sort of disaster really is a relatable feeling, having all characters not take stuff seriously is really a big flaw sometimes

[@ngchloe4877]

I shall respectfully disagree with a lot of Yahztee's points as per normal. I never expect to agree with him on Sonic games all, I'm just here for the Bri'ish snark

[@iancoffman855]

Man who’s favorite game is Undertale and spiritfarer can’t comprehend why people like “serious” stories featuring colorful cartoon animal characters.

[@Bhazor]

Comparing Spiritfarer to Shadow the Hedgehog. The least cringe

[@rouge939]

@@Bhazoryou’re right Shadow is way more interesting

[@PhysicsGamer]

The Time Traveling Ten Year Old being pranked by the pun-tastic Comic Sans after getting away from the big fuzzy goat mom in a mumu to Make Friends With Everyone is obviously way more worthy of being taken seriously than Blue Supersonic Hedgehog and Friends saving the world from Egg Themed Supervillain threatening to blow it up. Genuinely, this is such a weird take for him to have.

[@BE-fw1lr]

@@rouge939 This is why no one takes Sonic fans seriously. Christ.

[@iancoffman855]

@@BE-fw1lr Sorry, but Peak Generations clears Spiritmid.

[@FlippySuper]

I have a feeling Yahtzee would enjoy the Sonic Boom series where they explicitly take the piss out of Shadow.

[@boredomkiller99]

Sorry but Sega already tried not taking Sonic as a whole seriously and it resulted in one of the worst eras of Sonic. Like everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it is clear that Yahtzee just does not give a flying **** about Sonic as a whole so I don't know why he keeps trying to review them especially since he didn't even touch on gameplay.

[@ryanwada7666]

Yahtzee, has anyone ever asked you...what exactly are you expecting from these Sonic games?

[@vonskeedle5309]

The thing with Sonic games, particularly ones with Shadow, is that you have to engage with them as they are: pure camp. Shadow taking himself dead seriously while saturday morning cartoon stuff goes on in the background is what makes him so fun, and if you ask me, I think most people have had enough lampshading from movies and games alike to last a lifetime.

[@EccentricSandal]

How I wish guys like you would actually care to be *somewhat* informed on the games & topics you talk about before talking about them. It's not that hard. We JUST had 10 whole ass years of Sonic "not taking itself seriously" and quite literally everyone who wasn't a child hated it. Again, please just *try* to be informed at the bare minimum if you're gonna speak on it to people. When you aren't, it just makes you sound incredibly behind the times compared to the actual current worldwide perception of the Sonic series as a whole.

[@introman1854]

The bit at 4:13 was so unexpected it made me choke on my noodles, great review as always Yahtz

[@Fungo4]

So uh... when is he going to talk about the gameplay? Oh, alright then...

[@FixTheWi-Fi]

This *did* feel more like a remark on the concept of a Sonic story not being ashamed of itself than a review of a game. Seems he wasn't top fond of it mind, given the single-sound sum up and about 20 seconds of waterside comparsion between the shadownalysis - not a fan of post-2001 sonic gameplay overall clearly.

[@Midnight-Starfish]

My conspiracy theory is that Sega titled this "Sonic x Shadow" to send search engine traffic to one of their games and not to homoerotic fanfiction

[@theslimeyboi]

Half the time, Yahtzee complains that something isn't taking itself seriously, and the other half he complains it's too serious.

[@BE-fw1lr]

It's almost like both extremes can be bad.

[@dusk173]

@@BE-fw1lr or maybe he’s just uninformed and doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Maybe he doesn’t understand the appeal of Sonic because he never gave them a fair chance.

[@BE-fw1lr]

@@dusk173 Well as someone who played several Sonic games and thought they were all shit, I have given them a chance. And I think Yahtzee's points are completely fair.

[@Bowcaster26]

The Shadow are levels are awesome, well designed and work to his moveset whilst being interesting. His gameplay is more like a rhythm game. Learn the level, discover the most optimal route and have fun trying to execute the right jumps and tricks for the best time and rings

[@marcoludema8876]

And that's probably the highest praise we could expect.

[@jmcfar03]

uh... a cartoon hedgehog is allowed to be serious you know? the take that they can't have more serious and heartfelt plots is dumb and i'm sick of the "meta era" shit i want confidence in my sonic games

[@Rusty_Spy]

I always find it funny how Yahtzee prefaces every Sonic review by acting like he's about to piss of a hoard of Sonic fans when a) I'm pretty sure none of them care anymore how much he bashes the games and b) imo, he honestly hasn't even been that harsh to Sonic in his recent reviews, relatively speaking.

[@emerl298]

I’m pretty much the former. I don’t really give much credence to his reviews anyway, but he’s still a better reviewer than say Arin or Dunkey.

[@_Bungus]

I dunno man, there's quite a few irritated fans in the comments, lol. They aren't rioting or anything, because they aren't children, but he has certainly ruffled some feathers

[@richardvlasek2445]

considering that 90% of this comment section appears to be sonic fans either chastizing the reviewer for not taking the cartoon hedgehog franchise seriously or chastizing him for giving his opinion on a videogame he doesn't like i think the preface is completely justified lol like there's a guy with a kirby avatar under every comment crying very loudly at the notion that some people aren't capable of taking the hedgehog batman with rollerblades and a cockable mp5 seriously

[@mephilisthedarkelijahramat182]

@@_Bungus I let curiosity get the best of me and clicked on this but honeslty he seems like this with cartoony style games in general tbh it's kinda annoying

[@AllardRT]

@@richardvlasek2445 It's not that he's "not taking the cartoon hedgehog franchise seriously" or "doesn't like a video game", it's that this video is incredibly lazy. It's nothing but cliched "lol edgy" comments that were already eye-rollingly boring a decade ago. There's nothing insightful or amusing here to everyone who knows that cockable MP5s were only a thing once, in 2005, i.e. nineteen years ago. There's even a Linkin Park joke in there FFS. It's abundantly clear that he came into it in bad faith, scrambled to find any material to actually make fun of and decided to just wing it. Also Yahtzee is an edgelord. Between his sarcastic and condescending asshole not-really-a-persona, the red and black color scheme and blaring metal music (not to mention rebelliously rejecting his actual name in favor of a nickname), him calling out others for liking edgy stuff is like a pot calling a kettle the n-word.

[@sighrelief]

shadow being silly and that being delivered in a sincere way is the best part, actually

[@MelodicQuest]

I like Sonic, I like Yahtzee, I liked the video. He can have his incorrect opinions and still make me laugh.

[@blitzburn2871]

If I typed "Sonic X Shadow Generations" into AO3 I am almost certain to find a dozen fanfictions about Sonic and Shadow raising their kids, most of them being mpreg.

[@hamham_6411]

@@blitzburn2871 knowing both the fandom and ao3, _only_ a dozen feels like a severe underestimation

[@blitzburn2871]

@@hamham_6411 While the number of Sonic and Shadows mpreg fanficions likely number in the hundreds, the low estimate comes from the need for a Sonic X Shadow fic that includes generations in the title.

[@edfreak9001]

be honest you, the person looking at the comments, probably could've written this review in your head the moment you looked at the thumbnail.

[@hedgehoundable]

I mean, to be fair, Shadow's acquaintances don't really mock him or engage in "good natured ribbing" on account that his loved ones are all DEAD. Call me sensitive but I think that's a legitimate reason to handle conversations with care around him. Either that or because he has enough power to turn whatever piece of land you're currently standing on into charred glass. Take your pick.

[@insertname8230]

Yo, Yahtzee the 2010's called they want their Sonic review back.

[@GUNUFofficial]

The black arms are grey. Thats my only gripe with this review.

[@flaco3462]

i have no idea how he thought they were purple

[@connorcampbell-bisson8721]

@@flaco3462 Doom's Eye, probably.

[@AriaKyuKyu]

Damn, Yathzee hold that insane Sonic Hatred from 2010s 😔

[@SuperFlik]

The Shadow the Hedgehog game, the only time Shadow has used a gun, is 19 years old as of this Friday, November 15th. Time to get a new joke there, Yahtz

[@griffnuts]

The Sonic franchise is over 30 years old now and it’s a still a joke what’s your point?

[@Sneeakie]

@@griffnuts it's actually kind of crazy you guys still exist, like do you seriously have no other way to interact with Sonic the Hedgehog?

[@BE-fw1lr]

And it's still funny.

[@AllardRT]

@@BE-fw1lr To people like you, perhaps, but you're the kind of guy who laughs out loud at Garfield strips

[@BE-fw1lr]

@@AllardRT No, I just think it's funny that they gave a hedgehog a gun and thought it would make him cool.

[@contragaming843]

Encountering secrets and items that whiz by so fast that you can't possibly get them unless you already know they're there is like the core Sonic gameplay feature.

[@kap1618]

I have to disagree with yahtze on this one. The game plays itself straight like your typical Saturday morning cartoon, which I think is good for the series. Unless you want this, go to go fill Joss Whedon.

[@pjspriteanimations4905]

Lol yahtzee talking about how sega is missing the opportunity to make fun of shadow the hedgehog as if critics constantly wanting sonic to make fun of itself wasn't what set it on the previous miserable decade of horrendous "self-aware" kiddy humor and terrible writing the one time the series attempts to start telling stories that can mean something he's all complaining about how it's too edgy and the tones clash because they're cartoon hedgehogs and as we know cartoon hedgehogs can't have feelings cuz that's gay ive seen this when he reviewed laika too, talking about how the game's dark story is tonedeaf because the game has cartoony furries? (like, ever heard of contrast? wild concept i know) its seriously strange how some ppl have this idea that if a game has cartoon characters, let alone furries, or bah even worse, ~anime people~, any efforts it takes to tell a story is laughable and it shouldn't even try. Like, i'd chalk it up to cynicism, but there is more to it than that, right? How the hell do so many people decide certain concepts are just inherently unworkable, like a story trying to be heartfelt and have serious moments, just because it dared to have cartoony designs for it's characters? You guys ever watched a disney movie? Lion king anyone? Not that sonic hasn't earned it's reputation given most of the "serious" stories it tried to tell were just, let's be honest, really not good... but i feel that gave some people the false sense that the reason they weren't good has something to do with the aesthetics of the series rather than it just being... not written well :p shadow gens aint a masterpiece or anything, not like it could be with that budget and runtime, but it finally tried to tell a short, simple and heartfelt story again, and put one of the characters back on track after years of those terribly written edgy and tonedeaf stories everyone complained about, and the series mocked for the past decade. And the first thing i see the same people now do, is complain still because in their eyes, the concept was doomed from the start just because he's a hedgehog that looks mean and that's inherently silly to those that never felt joy or whimsy in their lives is there even a point to reviewing a concept if you're not willing to give it a fair chance?

[@edfreak9001]

tbh i can just accept if he doesn't jive with it, that comes with the territory and it's content for the audience that's still living in the early 2010's gamer rage webcomic era the people going "hyuck hyuck yahtzee is an angry reviewer that's his schtick!!!" in response to anyone not jiving with his points does rub me the wrong way a bit tho.

[@PhysicsGamer]

@@edfreak9001 What's weird is that this is generally exactly how he treats games that do the exact sort of irony poisoning that he wants, too.

[@ChibiTails]

I dunno man, I tend to love your attitude, but it's hard to take the usual "I don't know or care who any of these people is or what the backstory is" at face value when the literal top option of the main menu is a quick summary of all that. Also, ironically, judging by your critique of Sonic Team's handling of Shadow's edginess, you would have actually liked him in the Sonic Boom cartoon. The writing staff was explicitly forbidden to have him cracking jokes in the show, so instead they made the joke that he is the only one in the entire show that is utterly deadpan, dark, and serious 100% of the time.

[@tntsonic7482]

I think Sonic might just not be for you lol. Sonic fans have suffered through Sega making fun of the series for the past decade. Its nice to have them actually be sincere for once. Sonic should stay serious and fun. Thats why fans fell in love the series in the first place.

[@Canadamus_Prime]

Considering one of Sonic's original creators is a big DBZ fan, I'm pretty sure Shadow was meant to be the Vegeta to Sonic's Goku.

[@ShaimingLong]

Makes me wonder if Terios is essentially Raditz. Although Yuji Naka was away being ordered to make PSO during the development of SA2, so the Vegeta allusion is more likely a coincidence than intention. At least we know for sure with Silver.

[@Canadamus_Prime]

@@ShaimingLong Perhaps. Then again I'm not sure Shadow was originally intended to survive SA2. I'm only speculating, but I'm guessing they brought him back when he proved popular and he was developed into the Vegeta allusion.

[@Nastara]

Yahtzee is reviewing a Sonic game? We can take this about as seriously as his fighting game reviews.

[@flaco3462]

which is funny because he's physically incapable of taking those games' stories seriously as well for some reason

[@Nastara]

@ Fighting game stories are ass typically. It’s just that he cannot find anything enjoyable about them not even on a casual level that there is no reason to even care about what he things about them. Any well thought out ideas of game design that he has goes out the window when it comes to that genre.

[@AllardRT]

@@Nastara You take that back, I used to play Mortal Kombat almost exclusively for the story. Not the last couple of ones tho.

[@lilicrozma]

Everyone knows that Shadow is easy to mock, sonic team just don't care because the writer cares about him as a character, which I personally find commendable

[@axelprino]

I actually appreciate the fact that Sonic Team decided to make a short but focused game for once instead of desperately trying to extend its length with random gimmicks, even if they had to package it with a remaster of the game the new title is a sequel to in order to justify the price.

[@SpeedBird6780]

You gotta respect the man, getting a chuckle out of me, a Sonic fan who really likes this game, respect.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Apparently, "the perfect life-form" is one of those translations that loses a lot when you translate it literally. The implication is supposed to be that it's a life-form that doesn't suffer the biological process of aging, as in it's perfect at a cellular level. That was apparently the intent with Cell from DBZ, too, but the name was a little more on the nose there. Still no explanation for why they designed it to be a hedgehog, though, as the purpose of the research was likely to be reverse aging in human beings. You'd think they'd design it to be a human so their studies would be much easier to translate to other humans.

[@BobisOnlyBob]

The popular theory is Prof. Gerald Robotnik was obsessed with ancient civilizations and their prophecies, and modelled his Ultimate Life Form on the echidna prophecy that foresaw Super Sonic, hence why his Ultimate Life Form is a hedgehog with upturned spines.

[@espio87]

I think one of the motives of his research was to cure his granddaughter of a disease and Shadow's immune system would be able to do the trick. Dunno, I could be misremembering it.

[@Nowolf]

@@espio87 and considering that, from the symptoms, the disease appears to be something like MS, regulating the immune system would definitely be the target.

[@Rusty_Spy]

It isn't a mistranslation, they just never actually explained what the "ultimate life form" is supposed to mean in any of the games until now. The only time it was ever given explanation was in some Japan only strategy guide for Sonic adventure 2 way back when.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

@@Rusty_Spy I didn't say it was a mistranslation. I said it was an overly-literal translation. The translation is 100% accurate, it just doesn't properly convey the meaning that the writers were going for.

[@stan_1999]

The first Sonic game title you shouldn't let your kids google without the NSFW filter