Dragonair vs Pupitar - Pokemon Crystal

Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, or save states
4. No movepool evasion-boosting moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- I make no attempt to have the exact same rule details between generations.
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- Evasion boosting is allowed if the move is not obtained from the Pokemon’s movepool. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed.
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1 & 4, banned in gen2, and allowed only to bypass terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- Items obtained with the ability Pickup can only be used if the starter obtained them
-- The footage is sped up & slowed down to match the pace of my narration
These Rule details apply only to generation 1:
-- All battle-mechanic glitches are allowed (glitches that occur outside of battle are banned)
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
If you didn’t read these rules and left a comment. Thanks for helping with the algorithm.
Patreon: / scottsthoughts
KZbin memberships:
/ @scottsthoughtspokemon
X: / psychicflying
Thumbnail art by BrianLS: / brianlsart
Illustrations by Sarina Vail: / sarinavail
Video Editing by Shawn McMullen
STAB: bulbapedia.bul...
DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bul...
Damage Calculation: bulbapedia.bul...
Stat and Catch Calculators: pycosites.com/...
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com...
Growth Rates: bulbapedia.bul...
Learnsets: bulbapedia.bul...
Base Stats: bulbapedia.bul...)
If you're new around here, Venomoth is a Psychic/Flying type, you can't change my mind.

[@kode-man23]

You were my most watched creator of 2024, according to my KZbin recap. It’s always time well spent.

[@Snowstorm174]

me as well! truly the chillest vibes to curl up in bed and wind down :D

[@Fencrux]

Same! (:

[@facoulac]

Same! It was scott first and jrose second

[@navassino]

Same!🎉

[@hugosantos7180]

How do you see that?

[@naut7845]

I had to subscribe because of how well done these are but also because the amount of work the layout had to take for all these videos had to be insane and deserves to be appreciated and rewarded

[@beagleboygaming1701]

I really like that you refer the executives by their proper gen IV names. I never liked that gen ii didn't name the executives

[@duncathan_salt]

in the event that Miltank causes problems with Attract, it might be worth mentioning why it isn't usually viable to run a female pokemon in gen 2 specifically (the low attack IV)

[@arhardar6873]

To those who see the above comment and are confused: a Pokemon's IVs in gen 2 determine their gender (and if they are shiny or not but I don't know enough about that to inform another person). Their gender ratio is placed on the attack IV, where higher values make a mon male and lower values make a mon female (and keep in mind, this IV also affects hidden power and the hp IV). Miltank is special in this regard, as all of them are coded to be female. Thus, attract on them will always target male pokemon, aka all of the pokemon used for solo runs with a non-absolute gender.

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Yes, DVs also determine shiny. And tauros is also always coded to be male along with nidoran male. nidoran female is hard coded to always be female And IVs didn't start till gen 3

[@beagleboygaming1701]

I always found that weird and strangely sexist from this kids game

[@Flaming_Rok]

@@beagleboygaming1701 Keep in mind they had to keep compatibility with Gen 1, so they had to think of some way to decide what the Pokemon's gender is. There weren't personality IDs like Gen 3 onwards, so they were pretty limited on what they could use, and so they decided DVs, in this case Attack DV. also I think you're looking too far into it calling it "sexist" but I wish not to debate on this topic

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

​@@Flaming_Rokit is sexist, but that doesn't mean it was on purpose. Prob just devs trying to fit the most game in the smallest space in the least time.

[@DwunD016]

Well, the mon who i thought would win did. I made it to 51:06. And no Scott, YOU'RE INCREDIBLE!

[@Penguindude1]

33:45-33:50 So... even without wings, you could still fly? (For those around here who don't know, that is a reference to one of Sonic's lines near the end of the Hero Story of Sonic Riders) Also spoilers for this video: So if it wasn't for player error in Dragonair's 2nd run, it could've ended up around the end of the A tier.

[@MrRusty103]

For those who don't know? Sir/Ma'am you are probably the only person on the planet that is able to quote Sonic Riders.

[@Penguindude1]

@@MrRusty103 Well, I don't know how many Sonic fans watch Scott's Thoughts.

[@mathturtle37]

I think I agree with you that it was your sloppiest second playthrough that you let stand. I was really expecting a third playthrough just because you used to always keep going until you got a result you were happy with. Dragonair's "final" result has several minutes of player error in it... I can sorta understand leaving one mistake but you messed up 4 or 5 major battles which combined cost it the A tier. Maybe this is just from you rushing videos out for the end of the year but please don't sacrifice the quality of your results for that. I've always appreciated your dedication to getting things right and attention to detail... please don't give that up just to get enough videos out.

[@ZealousPawn]

I’ve noticed Scott tends to do more play-throughs for fully evolved Pokemon, usually only doing 2 runs for backports and first stagers. I bet it was more fun for him to run dragonite and tyranitar

[@nousernameinputed]

He might just be hurrying since daily December is right around the corner with the expectation that he’ll come back for a reranking stream.

[@mr.number9279]

I mean, judging from his video for Machop in which he exploits an invulnerability glitch, he is seriously rushing content right now. It's sad. I'm also weary of the ads he puts in his videos now.

[@ZealousPawn]

@@mr.number9279 KZbin ads do suck, all the more reason to go premium or support Scott on Patreon imo. Scott ran machop 3 times, which is one more than he usually does for unevolved pokemon. I disagree with his choice in that video to allow the glitch but I don’t see it as a quality issue

[@mr.number9279]

@@ZealousPawn Premium doesn't do anything about in-video ads, besides who the hell pays for KZbin? Just use uBlocker like any civilized person. Nah it's a quality issue. Three runs mean little if the runs are of poor quality and ones where you exploit a no-damage glitch ostensibly are. He's one step away from using CoolTrainer or Brock skip to make runs better at this point. That glitch he used has no justification if he bans Double Team, since it's Double Team on steroids.

[@zacharywhite4639]

My most watched channel of 2024! Love all your content, thanks for making my work days better.

[@mufasa5851]

You have pretty much reignited my interest in pokemon. Thank you.

[@travisterrell6556]

I just did my gaming recap you were my second most watched Creator Keep up the awesome content

[@justinsims655]

I enjoy these vs. vids where the pokemon pitted against each other are more thematically related than mechanically. It doesn't always lead to close races, but there's a lot of flavor to them.

[@27kap]

I too have found myself infatuated with a cow for far too long...

[@Trolldamere]

People really can't help but make jokes about their exes at every opportunity 🙃

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

​@@Trolldamere well then. You mess with the cow you get the ow

[@thedancingguy828]

i guess her attract and her "rollout" were super effective lol

[@perkypenguin1663]

Idk why I’m picking this video of all places to mention it, but one thing I really like about the Crystal videos is when you play the champion music before Lance’s fight and the arrow flashes with the music. It’s a very small, but very satisfying touch.

[@Colin1Moriarty]

Two minutes ago you upload before I'm about to go to bed. Well guess bedtime just got extended

[@urbestfriend-oz7zf]

So happy this whole line is getting vs vids!

[@frankieinjapan]

Hell yea cant wait for the ttar vs nite video. Poor rock ground types man, can't catch a break 😭 btw you were my most watched creator this year according to recap. Keep these videos coming so I can say it again next year lmao

[@CelticGuardian7]

Dragonair is so pretty. It's one of my favorite mid-stages. _>

[@1stCallipostle]

Sandstorm is theoretically at it's worst in Gen 3, yet thats the gen where it defines the entire meta. (Mostly because it's the only weather that can be set automatically in the standard metagame but still) These games are quite wacky.

[@TyroRNG]

The ease of activation combined with negating leftovers healing already makes it useful, especially given that pokemon are comparatively more bulky as the hyper offense power creep isn't that bad yet makes sand so common.

[@duncathan_salt]

@@1stCallipostle SandSTORM (the move) is at its worst in gen 3, but Sand (the weather) can be significantly more powerful in gen 3 than in gen 2 if it's set by Sand Stream (the ability) instead of Sandstorm (the move)

[@mr.number9279]

It defined a meta in Gen 4, you mean. Gen 3 it didn't define anything. Tyranitar was good, not Sandstorm.

[@mr.number9279]

@@duncathan_salt Um, no. Tyranitar was going to be super used no matter what even if it had Pressure as an ability. Sand Stream was useless in Gen 3. It wasn't until Gen 4 when it boosted Sp. Def that it was even useful.

[@amberhernandez]

​​​@mr.number9279 "Gen 3 [sand] didn't define anything." Sincere question, do you watch _any_ competitive Pokémon creators that play gen 3? Sand is like, one of _the_ constants of gen 3 OU. Yes, Tyranitar is good, and that means it's going to occupy one of the twelve team slots present at that battle. What do you get when someone sends out their Ttar? Sand. Tar eventually goes down, but you know what it leaves behind for the rest of the battle? Sand. You know what every teambuilder has to consider when building a bulky mon? "Does this heal in sand or get chipped?" DPP may be a sand-saturated metagame, and many of the same things I've mentioned can be brought up in its defense as well. Yes, sand is good because Tar is good, weather interruption still exists (and is more prevalent in DPP), and the stars can align so both players can choose to just not bring Tar for some reason, but denying that sand doesn't define the ADV meta is absurd.

[@coolnath99]

33:48 dragonair has wings. those tiny wings on the side of it’s head.

[@weebrahim]

I'm glad you followed through with it Scott, it doesn't feel that long ago xD

[@JackNFLD]

Ahh lore accurate Whitney strikes again

[@PabloNeves26]

0:32 grab a sody pop?

[@JetblackJay]

This is unrelated whens the rematch of Kanto vs Johto starters in either Gen 1 back port or fire red 🤔

[@Hell_Kaizer]

I felt those rockslide misses in my very soul. When I was playing vgc early scarlet violet, I had a tyranitar out vs a liligant and a torkoal. Turn 1: Double miss rockslide Turn 2: Miss torkoal, hit liligant Turn 3: Double miss rockslide Turn 4: hit both, KO liligant, torkoal lives on red Turn 5: miss torkoal torkoal crits lava plume KO tyranitar It is probably the single unluckiest moment I've ever had playing pokemon, and I've been playing a very long time but seeing it happen to someone else with the larvitar line brought back memories

[@Xeraser2]

Could be worse, my foe's Ninetales got 8 protect activations in a row at an official tournament and nobody batted an eye.

[@davidestabrooks211]

This feels like it all came down to Dragonair not taking a large time lose in the early stages of the run like Dratini did because of wrap.

[@jamesthegaminguy]

38:39 wow took me over 25 years to realize Victreebel is spelled with one L. For a second I thought it’s name was cut off 😅😂

[@Johnny362000]

I mean, in a sense the name _is_ cut off, because there was a 10 character limit back then (idk if there still is now) and Victreebel fills all 10. Same reason why Feraligatr is spelled like that and not Feraligator

[@Killagoose77]

I always liked Pupitar since it is basically Tyrannitar's chest piece, really cool that the cocoon is basically a part of it. Also decent enough for in game playthroughs, if you can throw it in early somehow or play romhacks, until it can finally steamroll as its final evo.

[@Schmitzy1984]

Love your content Scott. Once you finish the tier list of a generation, any thoughts about doing an egg move list. I’m interested to see which Pokemon improve and by how much if they were able to have one egg move from a parent.

[@kckella730]

thank god i had no idea what to watch before sleep until this dropped

[@poweruppikawho9007]

Dragonair's time if/when you rerank these is gonna be interesting.

[@twistedtachyon5877]

Dratini's ranked time was also quite sloppy and seemingly thrown together. Wonder just how much these two can be expected to jump up in the ranks if given a fair shake in future... of the two, though, Dragonair is definitely more obviously held back right now. An A-tier finish should be quite easily obtained with the same strategy.

[@mickgorro]

It would be nice to do the whole trilogy of versuses in a row, but I've already watched Dratini vs. Larvitar, and I don't have time anyway :)

[@JakeTheHawk]

I really love the idea of a middle form versus. I'd love to see that with other match ups. Middle forms don't get enough love.

[@travv88]

22:08 where is this? I've never been here and I've finished this game countless times.

[@DwunD016]

South of goldenrod. You surf to them

[@Kiohkyle]

Crystal can be so anticlimactic in these runs, both Pokemon have huge move pools just for them both at the end to use return/curse

[@peteyboo]

Yeah if they had just scaled the gym leaders to a reasonable level for a team that just beat the Elite 4, you'd have plenty of experience and a lot fewer Pokémon would have to resort to cheese strats.

[@Elidrawsthings]

An interesting comparison would be snubble vs maril, both were introduced before Gen 2 (snubble made a cameo in the first Pokémon movie) maril was a companion character during the orange isle arch. Both became are monotypes that later become fairy in Gen 6.

[@tiemen9095]

If you bring a mint berry to red with pupitar, can't you heal up in snorlax while protecting on solar beams to sweep him?

[@ceulgai2817]

Seeing you use *Thunder Wave* as the move to overwrite for Surf was /sending/ me lol. Paraflinch strats are Dragonair's bread and butter, sadly, especially since at that time you already had Headbutt and Twister. Surf could then be used as a (typically more effective) KO move.

[@hihatter2784]

Keep up the great work dude 🎉

[@SarahsSnakeShop]

commenting before i see anything. but dragonair is one of my fav pokemon, so i am rooting for it!

[@ktvx.94]

Wait Dragonite's run was two years ago already? Wow I thought it was more recent.

[@firedrake110]

The first pass of Johto is basically the story of how lucky Dragonair can get vs. how wildly the universe hates Pupitar lol

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

hahahaha

[@angelotirado3542]

I'm expecting the gap to widen between dragonair and pupitar since the stats are better and twister at the start

[@lordgeovanni]

Such interesting lines, and yet I think I already know which is superior.

[@EmbraerLegacy600]

That's Dragonair, not Seperior

[@lordgeovanni]

@@EmbraerLegacy600 I said superior, not Serperior. I was literally literally saying that I thought I already knew which would win...

[@FantasyJared]

Hype for Scott!

[@ferrugemj18]

"despiste it not having wings..." looks at sprite looks at artwork guess those are just flappy ears then

[@ryanfoss3894]

Do you consider always running as female to prevent Miltank attract strats?

[@Johnny362000]

In Gen 2 your pokemon's gender is determined by its attack DV, meaning females always have weaker attack than males (sometimes the highest attack DV a female can have is just 1 or 2)

[@ryanfoss3894]

​@@Johnny362000, good to know. Thank you

[@JustAnderw]

Dragonair had a lot of player error on their 2nd playthrough, hopefully you can come back to it in a livestream later

[@NioNerd]

Fun fact! The first video of yours I watched was your solo Yellow Dragonair video. And have been subscribed since.

[@calebjohnson9740]

21:51 he has a full heal 😅 actually pretty annoying when you’re using sleep strats

[@samrushin2476]

Maybe Chuck doesn’t have a healing item because he’s al about brute force. He *chucks* a boulder to show his strength, after all.

[@c.m.9369]

Before watching: The stat spread here is very, very similar, so not too much of an advantage on either of them. Although, I do think having a slightly higher special attack stat could help Dragonair. Another thing that will help Dragonair is the fact that it doesn't have a 4-times-weakness. Frankly, this will really hurt Pupitar in some areas. Pupitar will probably benefit from its strong Ground-STAB combined with Curse in the end and the fact that Pikachu can't really hit it, allowing easy set-up... but since Dragonair can also have Curse and strong physical attacks and isn't being hit for 4-times-damage by Blastoise, it probably won't struggle more with Red than Pupitar. And in the beginning they have both solid moves that can carry them until the learn the better stuff, soooo... All in all, I think Dragonair will win here. But both will do a solid job. Probably upper mid-tier for both of them. After watching: Slightly better than I thought for Dragonair. Pupitar did about as well as expected.

[@Nick_Slavik]

You probably explored it, but I wonder if dragonbreath would've been good to use here 🤔 and if you said it going in, I totally missed that part lmao

[@Nick_Slavik]

For dragonair, during your first run against Lance lol forgot to add that part in haha

[@cduck16]

It's hard to fairly compare the two when you consider the rival's starter. Maybe choosing Cyndaquil for both would've warranted a fairer outcome in that regard.

[@Ectar2003]

Scott narrated a whole section of the video while mentioning level 69 and managed to not make a joke nor have it pop up on screen.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Restraint.

[@Emmelikescoffee]

Another day, another occurrence of Scott defying all odds The combined chance of missing four Rock Slides out of five turns is 0.045% Game Freak pls

[@relaxinjay]

This looks fun! 😁

[@j.r.1704]

So no Dennis? 🤔😭

[@Nehezir]

Pupitar over here enamored by Cows and Dragonair barely escaping Twister PP problems.

[@BattleCattleSA]

35:40 "I'm going to invite you to to look at my PP."

[@hugodogobob]

420 base stats? Don't mind if I do

[@Caun-88]

420 based stats

[@Lacrèmedelacrème27]

It's legal in Canada. I'm canadian too and all the people I know who still like pokemon are 420 enthousiasts! I wonder if scott lights one from time to time

[@Caun-88]

@@Lacrèmedelacrème27 Can confirm also Canadian

[@mickgorro]

Dragonair ears definitely look like wings :)

[@mmpsp693]

Attract is op, squidgy uses it sometimes

[@jonathonwilliams93]

Anyone else here run Scott's Thoughts through their car? Genuinely find these playthroughs calm me down in rush hour traffic 😅

[@shironeko1843]

I do.

[@KrusherMike]

Dragonair always has a place on my team. Has since gen1. ❤

[@mr.number9279]

These were really good runs. I guess Dragonite really needs to be redone---it feels a bit wrong that Dragonair would be faster? Or is the Flying-type that detrimental to it? Pupitar did about as well as you'd expect, it isn't a good typing (not as bad as Gen 1, but still) being Rock/Ground and those stats are really mediocre to have that typing. I do wish you would've addressed the Machop controversy though. It's a serious matter if you're going to do that for the remaining Yellow runs because there's no good justification for allowing that glitch when it's not only a glitch that can ONLY happen by intentional gameplay (unlike badge boosts, etc.), but more hideously RNG than the banned Double Team.

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

4:43 perfect run for pupitar (and 11:53 for dragonair); 44:02 for dragonair follow up.. disappointingly ends here... F in the chat Press F to pay respects 8:25 and 14:15 and 38:59 ooooo 69 nice 48:34 oooo 69 nice... but ya missed it :( 9:15 and 11:53 uh oh... you messed with the cow and got the ow 38:48 ooooo the Mr mime thats really a Mrs mime.. nice

[@bobosmith101]

i liked the venomoth arrow

[@adamgibbons8237]

Dragonair is my favorite middle evolution

[@Duothimir]

Pupitar had a pretty nice max HP stat right after Whitney.

[@leonardshuclke343]

Thanks Scott 😊

[@Quidditchgoat]

10:06 battle is longer - just saying 🤷‍♀️

[@Quatrixjs1]

My favourite vids on this channel are the versus ones with two different types

[@justsomejojo]

You know, I was wondering why Attract never really comes up, because while I have some very funny and satisfying strats to beat Whitney in style on regular runs, I still always have to make sure my Whitney destroyer is female, because my luck with Attract is atrocious. It's good to know that isn't much different for professionals.

[@chapolinm_]

The Rock Slides misses on Pryce were sooooo unfair. I mean, one or two is ok... but there were what? FIVE!?!? WTF

[@Kolokasidis]

More likely to be hit by lightning lol

[@justinmarshall2615]

I'm here! Early! Finally!

[@dragonexpert8323]

Venomoth gets to be an ice type this time.

[@bettyunicorn6132]

These things are weirdly different than their final evos.

[@TheMoogleKing93]

Okay hot take; in Gen 2 you should choose the easiest rival choice. The only hard rival fight in the game is Azalea, before you have any real options to deal with it beyond grinding against level 3 wild pokemon. Gen 2 is already easy, and I don't think forcing grinds early on makes it more interesting.

[@TyrantWesker]

Making changes to the rules now would make future results incomparable with past ones, though, plus he wants to stick to the original intent of the game's creators.

[@LPMGSAS]

and then make the tier list of 2 years anew because the results of the others dont count.

[@ciboria1]

@@TyrantWesker Simple solution, every new and updated entry has 2 times; One for the old system of hardest rival, and a new one of Easiest

[@TheModdedwarfare3]

Hot take indeed. He likes to keep it as close to vanilla as he can. He is playing the game wrong so if there is a bad roadblock like rival 2 then it just is a roadblock.

[@dustindean4618]

​@@ciboria1Then he just be doing double the playthroughs which just takes up more time, there is literally no point

[@alanhumid]

Wormadam when? 😈

[@TheMoogleKing93]

I'm leaning Pupitar but it could go either way!

[@lady_lunaa]

jasmine puzzle? more like jasmine jigsaw with how she can turn "fast" runs into "very slow"

[@cameronneveu7277]

Man I hate seeing another Pokémon with a great move set using the ubiquitous Curse + Return strat... Pupitar has Access to its Strongest STAB Moves in the Game. I kinda wish it was banned like double team.

[@finnman8456]

Straight up threw the Dragonnair run.

[@SonicMeters]

Neat video cool

[@Caun-88]

Dragonair has a nice backsprite

[@jackruby6696]

Hell yeah

[@StarLore00]

You post them move statistics like I can read them

[@Xeraser2]

Okay, no, this was really unfair to Dragonair. It DESERVED another run, the second run was way too sloppy.

[@Stan_Vanderakt]

Dragonair ❤

[@lmr4403]

To avoid getting attracted, make your pokemon female. (Don't mind me, I am being dumb: This is gen 2, DV's are sexist: male-> better attack.)

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

If you look at my gen3 runs, I always use female Pokemon for this exact reason! But gen2 is a bit more complicated... In GSC gender is determined exclusively by the Pokemon's attack DV. It must be less than the gender ratio for the Pokemon to be female. In the case of a 50/50 gender ratio, you need to have 7/15 as your attack. This ruins HP and damage ranges across the run to solve a single trainer, which just isn't a good idea.

[@lmr4403]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon You are completely right. For some stupid reason I always confuse Crystal and Emerald in the gens.

[@oscarisaksson4809]

Man i love dragonite but sometimes i wish dragonair would evolve into milotic

[@Donch9]

46:40 sloppiest seconds lol

[@arisidman5909]

daily december upcoming LETS GOOOOOO

[@MelodicTurtleMetal]

Time to average out the tier list i think. Waaay too top heavy

[@barongeoffrey75]

Was it said why thèse runs aren't played with remakes which correctes mistakes/bizarre choices that were due to material limits?

[@marcoasturias8520]

Can we appreciate the Venomoth arrow?

[@MazterP28]

Pupitar gets rage as a New York Pokémon center move

[@AmityvilleFan]

#HallOfFame

[@cinnamonsugarcourtney6073]

Whitney's Attract is the reason why I always soft-reset for a female pokemn on my solo runs for GSC. :3

[@pupsparky808]

Bork