What if Lugia and Ho-oh were in Yellow?

Rules:
1. Only my starter in battle
2. No items in battle, except held items
3. No glitches, exploits, or save states
4. No movepool evasion-boosting moves before level 100*
Rule details:
-- I make no attempt to have the exact same rule details between generations.
-- I am allowed to manipulate my starter
-- I play the game at 4x game speed
-- For fair comparisons my Pokemon have perfect (or near perfect) DVs / IVs
-- I am allowed to catch HM users - I can use all field moves
-- Evasion boosting is allowed if the move is not obtained from the Pokemon’s movepool. For example, using Mimic or Mirror Move to boost evasion is allowed.
-- Surge's trash-can-puzzle is automatically solved
-- The bike is allowed in gen1 & 4, banned in gen2, and allowed only to bypass terrain in gen3
-- Saving between league members is allowed
-- I can pause the game and timer to take breaks
-- Items obtained with the ability Pickup can only be used if the starter obtained them
-- The footage is sped up & slowed down to match the pace of my narration
These Rule details apply only to generation 1:
-- All battle-mechanic glitches are allowed (glitches that occur outside of battle are banned)
-- In generation 1, I'm allowed to skip Marowak with the Poke Doll
If you didn’t read these rules and left a comment. Thanks for helping with the algorithm.
Patreon: / scottsthoughts
KZbin memberships:
/ @scottsthoughtspokemon
X: / psychicflying
Thumbnail art by BrianLS: / brianlsart
Illustrations by Sarina Vail: / sarinavail
Video Editing by Shawn McMullen
STAB: bulbapedia.bul...
DVs / IVs: bulbapedia.bul...
Damage Calculation: bulbapedia.bul...
Stat and Catch Calculators: pycosites.com/...
Gen1 Crit Rates: www.smogon.com...
Growth Rates: bulbapedia.bul...
Learnsets: bulbapedia.bul...
Base Stats: bulbapedia.bul...)
If you're new around here, Venomoth is a Psychic/Flying type, you can't change my mind.

[@semicolon4699]

It's insane that lugia isn't a water type but venomoth is.

[@Minicheche250]

Ikr 😅

[@chefgrizz6284]

The moth isn’t water type? Male Venomoth(Lugia run) is Dark/Rock. Female(Ho-oh run) is rock/electric

[@BubbaJoeSwag]

@@chefgrizz6284no he’s right. It’s a dual water/water type.

[@alexrobinet7576]

Ya..

[@nachorzeszut1857]

This video might have the earliest venomoth joke without featuring venomoth

[@DnDShorts]

always loved these guys, best birbs

[@blackswordsmanyuudai2361]

I did not expect this crossover

[@Apfeljunge666]

wow, what a crossover

[@PlutoDarknight]

Are you that Youngster in Pokemon Yellow talking about his shorts?

[@greyscaleadaven]

I love Giant Rooster and Deep Sea Duck With Hands

[@blackswordsmanyuudai2361]

I WAS WONDERING WHERE YOUR THOUGHTS WERE and this video immediately showed up in my notifications, hell yeah

[@cameronclevenger8215]

The world clamors for more Scott.

[@madmatt1763]

29:18 "We have to add Giovanni to the list of Pokemon that Lugia has lost to." Makes sense Lugia might lose to Giovanni. He seems like a Dark type after all.

[@Zo3yX]

Since lugia was made for the movie, gamefreak changed the typing to psychic since at the time that was basically a mark of power in pokemon, even though the creator wanted and envisioned them as a water flying type.

[@baileyBLIGHT]

Whenever Surge gets a proper intro without the silly music I'm like "Oh? Is he gonna be a problem for once??" and the answer is almost always no LMAO.

[@SquirrelGamingProductions]

1:05 same, Scott. Same.

[@awesomeness_man9550]

Those darn constraints 😔

[@postapocalypticnewsradio]

There is a reason Lugia isn't a water type. The felow who designed it made it to be a flying water type, but because it's supposed to be strong, the company said it had to be psychic. Because all the strongest pokemon were psychic at the time.

[@ZerglingOne1]

And that led to it getting the best time in yellow because I don't see it doing this well with a 4x electric weakness. That really complicates the champion with the menacing magneton.

[@MrEnte3000]

"waste type" Trubbish and Garbodor

[@postapocalypticnewsradio]

@MrEnte3000 sorry, I'm on mobile. My auto correct isn't great.

[@Camurgladius]

Both getting their higher stat as their Special feels appropriate and since there is no "perfect" solution this is the cleanest. Good. I think the TM learnset for Lugia being stronger is more valuable than Ho-oh's level up learnset, partially due to there just being fewer level moves, and partly because with Slow growth rate, Ho-oh is possibly getting Fire Blast from Blaine before naturally learning it, depending on where Scott ends up needing to candy up! Honestly rooting 'for' Lugia just because his theme song in the movie is beautiful.

[@CyberchaoX]

It actually is entirely on brand for Lugia and Ho-oh to have unequal BSTs in Gen 1, because a lot of "counterpart" Pokémon that would go on to have identical BSTs from Gen 2 on had unequal BSTs in Gen 1. For example, the three legendary birds do not have equal BSTs.

[@Skipatronic]

My favorite part of the video was when Scott says Here's my thoughts and thoughts away while being Scott

[@thenerdbeast7375]

If I recall correctly Lugia was made a Psychic type because the Water type was deemed "not cool enough" in the eyes of Lugia's designers. I do think I've heard that they did express some regret doing that but it is too late for that now.

[@John_Smith_101]

*Spoiler for the video* Wow, finally Victreebel was dethroned in these rankings. Now you have to play it again to reclaim that #1 spot! At least while you avoid the inevitable Mewtwo run, which I'm guessing will be the very last one.

[@TangerineTux]

11:08 I’m not sure Magneton is such a great example for this, since its gen 1 Special of 120 was actually split into a Special Attack of 120 and a Special Defense of 70 in gen 2. Tentacruel might be a better one.

[@Iamanothing]

Always nice when your favorite gets the better time

[@UltraSilver2]

Pokémon Stadium rules guy here, following the idea that Ho-Oh and Lugia have Mewtwo's same stats but re allocated I feel like it would have been best to simply copy Mewtwo's stats and reallocate to best match the GSC birds, while maintaining the secondary goal of maintaining their distinctions from one another. HP: H 106, L 106 ATK: H 130, L 90 DEF: H 110, L 130 SPC: H 154, L 154 SPD: H 90, L 110 Ho-Oh with 20 more Defense than you had. But maintains Ho-Oh's ATK superiority and Lugia's DEF and SPD superiority. This carries the flaw of the DEF being closer than it should be but puts their totals equal to each other and Mewtwo.

[@josephicikson1959]

13:29 there are 4 bug moves in gen 1, 3 of which deal damage. Leech Life, Twineedle, Pin Missile and String Shot

[@pilkkimies]

No pokemon in a trainer fight has Twineedle

[@JaharNarishma]

Yellow doesn't have Twineedle. You can trade in a Beedrill to get Twineedle, but it doesn't come standard.

[@jrbehr4643]

Yeah, he's made that mistake before. He forgets Leech Life

[@VirtuesOfSin]

44:45 - Hey Scott, asking because of this fade away (I'm assuming you reset as soon as you got Frozen), but did you know about Sacred Fire's secret mechanic? I'm not sure if you were unaware of this mechanic, or if it couldn't be implemented with Gen1 statuses, but Sacred Fire thaws out a Frozen Pokemon before attacking.

[@Zorafin]

I read a developer interview that Lugia was supposed to be water/flying but its designer changed it to psychic because it was considered powerful back then and he really wanted it to seem good

[@nelsondaily]

Hey Scott, just wanted to say that your narration skills have really improved since I started watching you! I love how you incorporated a bit of storytelling / build up to your scripts! Keep on going!

[@paulmann8570]

Imagine backporting two Pokémon specifically because they do well against Bruno.

[@inventiveusername5191]

Subtly harder rom hack is a cool idea. I guess you could also have: -Misty's Starmie gets Confusion -Surge has good AI -Giovanni loses his sponsorship deal -Errrr, the actual second elite four member, Geoff the Normal type specialist, goes back into his chamber and the hiker who wandered in previously is escorted out by security?

[@man75739]

Something I always think about with these legendary videos is when do base stats stop to matter. Like the difference between 300 bst and 450 bst is huge same thing with 450 and 600 bst but the time would end up stop improving eventually, right? So, I always wonder what is the lowest base stat on minimum battles that could get a time where improvements to base stats stop to matter? Though coverage, growth rate, and type matter much more than bst so to actually test that it would require a 'standard' physical or special moveset along with type. Any test that actually isolates the bst variable could end up really baised.

[@crimsoncutz8430]

Mega Drain's self esteem is in the gutter after this video

[@SonicMeters]

Neat idea because ash saw Ho ho in the anime

[@minikawildflower]

From the Venomoth files, for a long time I was convinced Lugia was Flying/Ice

[@tommyhedden]

All the trainers and gym leaders are probably like WHAT IS THAT 😱

[@BenediktWindisch]

One-Ball-Oak catching those (backported) Pokemon and Legendaries is why I love Yellow more than Red/Blue lol. And your backsprites are amazing as always

[@facoulac]

On the seventeenth day of December, Scott's Thoughts gave to me: The Johto legendaries in kanto The Land shark that overshadows Flygon Godzilla destroyed by a punch The best starter trio Three motherly pokemon The Giants of Gen One A deer and a giraffe The two pink blob matchup The Anubis dog herself A big cuddly boy in Kanto Two Airlane Dragon Pokemon Three Bulky Normal Types The Gen I Middle Stages An OP Eevee in Yellow An OP Pikachu in Yellow A slow level up group ice tree And the slowest hitmon brother

[@theshankpain2228]

I haven’t watched yet, but thank you for the continuous string of great videos.

[@AdamEspersona]

Ho-Oh with Mega Drain actually covers all of its Fire-type weaknesses (and simultaneously healing itself), while Earthquake covers Electric. I like it when Fire-types can use a move that covers all its weaknesses at once.😂

[@Hyperneosonic97]

Speaking of backporting ridiculously strong legendary Pokemon to RBY, I wonder how Regigigas would do with its completely over-the-top stat distribution and Normal STAB (augmented by access to Earthquake, Rock Slide, Thunderbolt, etc.)? The only issues would likely be no setup move, and a poor matchup against Brock. You wouldn't even have to worry about backporting Crush Grip, since nobody ever uses that move anyway.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

I wouldn't say it's a bad matchup against Brock. If you pick the Diamond/Pearl learnset, it starts with Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Mega Punch and Stomp. If you pick the Platinum learnset, it starts Knock Off, Confuse Ray, Dizzy Punch and Foresight. Depending on what he could replace Knock Off with, you have an unresisted move, and even then you have a decent STAB to not take too many turns to KO Geodude, and Confuse Ray which can break Bide badly.

[@psio4213]

The daily videos are such a godsend because i always just end up rewatching your videos lol.

[@benjaminsurrette3034]

i think the BST’s make perfect sense. it kinda unifies 154 as a legendary stat quantity and i think asymmetry in power balancing is gamefreaks hidden ability especially in terms of the first 4 generations

[@TheMoogleKing93]

I've always assumed Suicine was originally going to be in Lugia's place before they developed the Legendary Beasts

[@llSuperSnivyll]

There was no "Lugia's place". Ho-oh was going to be like Mewtwo, a top legendary with no counterpart. Only when they saw Pokémon 2000 and its popularity and thought "hey, maybe we could add this Lugia from the movie to the game as a counterpart for Ho-oh", they started the idea of pairs of box legendaries.

[@Kharzein]

My 2 favorite legendary im my favorite version less goo, keep the good content scott ur radical ! 🔥

[@saberbeast1]

its insane that so far the only pokemon to beat victreebel's time is a psychic type legendary victreebel is truly a monster

[@BubbaJoeSwag]

The name “Ho-oH” in game looks like a horribly scarred whooper

[@PillzmansFox]

Its funny the reason lugia is Psychic/Flying instead of Water/Flying is Psychic was the best type in gen 1 so they wanted to show off its power by giving it a "better" type

[@SteveyT55]

Daily December has the best series of videos so far.

[@UltimateVegetto]

I feel like the idea behind Lugia is to have it be a defensive juggernaut, while Ho-Oh was supposed to be more geared towards offense. I don't think they would've given them the same special because of that. If it were a Gen 1 Pokemon, it would likely have had 154 Defense and 130 Special. Conversely, Ho-Oh would probably have had 110 Defense or Speed and 154 Special, since they wouldn't have given it a lesser BST. But yeah, no perfect option here. Just doesn't sit well with me to "nerf" the underdog Ho-Oh, already the less popular of the 2.

[@Dpmt]

Calling Magneton a defensive Pokémon after it got its 120 special as special attack is really funny.

[@bettyunicorn6132]

My philosophy when it comes to back porting legendarys is to always backport the higher special stat. This is because legendarys are meant to be broken and also because of Articuno.

[@tysonpestner]

You’re the man, Scott

[@AdamEspersona]

As a Lugia fan, I am happy with the results.

[@SquirrelGamingProductions]

39:32 good guy Lance would never let a Dragon/Water type lose to a bird!

[@schlumpgodent]

@1:07 was unintentionally halarious 🤣🤣

[@frostedbyte0759]

Great video dude

[@grundgutigertv6170]

The Venomoth joke returns! Praise the helix! 😂

[@llSuperSnivyll]

About Lugia, there are two considerations. First, it was exclusively a movie-only character (in the Spaceworld demo, it didn't exist; Ho-oh was the only top legendary much like Mewtwo), which is why it has all the water associations. When put into the game, the associations were kept but had the Water type replaced with Psychic because Psychic was broken in Gen 1. About Ho-oh, your reset upon getting frozen by Lapras's Blizzard shouldn't have happened. Sacred Fire is one of the few moves that thaws the user upon being used, so (somehow) that effect should have been included.

[@Chronoflation]

Aeroblast being physical and not special for gen 1 is really unfortunate for Lugia

[@victorAPR96]

I think you should have replaced gust with peck, since the intent of the devs was to give them a flying type move

[@tsawy6]

Maybe but i like normal gust as gen 1 jank

[@male_maid5951]

13:25 there 4 bug moves, leech life, pin missile, twin-needle for damage and string shot.

[@snakeywakey3893]

I bet a backported Rayquaza would be pretty good, especially Mega and it gets its high special attack as its special.

[@ebilgaming]

Is it bad I always imagine the self-destructing hiker should be named "Boomhauer." The explosion pun is free realistate!

[@vfranceschini]

yay gen1, ty Scott

[@fortello7219]

If we're talking about romhack changes we would make I want to mention my personal gym type swap I've been working on. More specific I think it would be cruel to make Flying the 2nd Gym's type. If we use the same restrictions as Misty's Gym already has then you are dealing with two pokémon of level 20 and 22. Such as Gyarados and Golbat. Two very high BSTs for that point in the game, and with TMs on their movesets could be very very difficult.

[@StealthArcher]

And my favorite baby boy sweeps another vs

[@belodie]

Earlier today, I watched another channel do a Lugia run. Really interested in seeing how it stack up in your format, and what Ho-Oh looks like in comparison.

[@dwg-v1f]

Drizzle Lugia would go so hard

[@brianwisecarver4880]

Scott usually has a much bigger PP. I guess it's pretty cold in Canada.

[@infernape3335]

Scott do you think on doing a Mega Mon run? Like mega beedrill? who is totally not my favorite mega pokemon...

[@ArmadisRock]

Haw haw Psynergy Points 😂

[@Singleparentof20000]

1:08 me too

[@kinjate007]

😂😂😂

[@Zo3yX]

:3

[@Riftrender]

I love undersea hand bird.

[@usuario15965]

Some times you should know when a pokemon whould just not learn a move,rock throw doesnt make any sense on the birds,but ancient power does,moveset upgrades between gens are a thing,so i think,you should substitue them with something that makes thematic sense or nothing

[@DLC88]

Hey Scott, didn't you do a live stream of this last year? You had a record lugia tine

[@thehumanpokedex5655]

Hey Scott, I was always wondering which of the Starters final evolution would be the best for a Gen 1/2 speed run. I reckon Pokemon like Infernape would be much better in gen 2 then 1

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

10:12 perfect run ends here for lugia (and 52:59 for the follow up... WTG Scott losing to surge again and again 😂😂😂) rather disappointingly (and 33:05 for ho-oh; 43:26 for the rather disappointing follow up.. GG Scott losing to surge again 😂😂😂)... F in the chat Press F to pay respects

[@angelotirado3542]

Lugia should crush, but ho-oh...I'm unsure

[@benjaminkett2223]

Not gonna lie, having Ho-Oh with less base stats than the other two "box art" legends seems fundamentally wrong and very inconsistent.

[@PSNDemonwing]

Great video !!

[@Run2127]

If you’re able to backport Pokémon Would you be able to backport the Physical/Special Split and see how some Dark types would do with it like Tyranitar/Weavile etc?

[@superbanjobravo]

1:06 It's okay Scott. It's not about the size of your PP but what you're able to do with it

[@Radar_of_the_Stars]

I'm really worried about Ho-oh, I think it might get stuck at Koga considering that his Venomoth is a Rock/Electric type

[@michaelbratcher8495]

I always though lugia was a psychic type so it wouldn't have a type advantage against ho-oh. That was they would be able to fight evenly against each other so no version of the game would have the "better" legendary.

[@llSuperSnivyll]

Groudon and Kyogre:

[@michaelbratcher8495]

@@llSuperSnivyll exactly.

[@roberte.o.speedwagon6043]

I'm okay with Lugia being Psychic type. That being said. WATER/PSYCHIC WOULD'VE BEEN WAY BETTER Just say it uses it's fins to 'fly' by using it's Psychic powers 💀

[@alexrobinet7576]

It would have also been ok to give hooh the 110 def And peck not gust on lugia for stab which it has in later gens on the gust.

[@shawnlively7721]

Bolt Beam pokemon are always op

[@DarkCloudian]

Can someone explain to me why would he get rid of bubble beam for Ice Beam when he has Aeroblast that would be super effective against Pokemon that resist Bubblebeam? I understand later in the game against Lance, but why so early

[@mlpfanboy1701]

7:43 movewise sure, type wise absolutely not.

[@sneeringimperialist4227]

Hi Scott, love your content but I have a nagging question to ask: When you do runs with pokemon that are have limited initial movepools due to being encountered at higher levels, e.g. Tauros, why not add in moves from, for example, its gen 3 moveset? So give Tauros tail whip at level 4, rage at 8 etc. You make these edits for backports, citing "What the developers would have done", and I don't disagree with you, so why not for cases like Tauros? I mean, you're already 'arbitrarily' editing the starter (to be Tauros) after all! Just had to get that off my chest, as I said I love the content!

[@carlosguerrero6501]

There is no discord link in the description, right?

[@unboundsoul3582]

Pedantic comment for engagement but Gen 1 has four but moves String shot Pin missile Twin needle And leech life

[@tresseis8944]

I too, struggle with not enough PP

[@skyfever111]

how long has it been since you coded all your games to have "scott" and "butt" as the first default names for each character???? i only just noticed

[@vishtu]

You keep saying that there are only 3 bug moves in gen 1. There are 4; leach life, pin missile, twin needle, and string shot.

[@jackruby6696]

Scot you spoil us

[@angelotirado3542]

When will Scott rip off the weedle bandage?

[@alvarodurantorres6916]

11:41 Is that Kabutops?

[@LunarWingCloud]

YES HE MADE ANOTHER PP JOKE IT FEELS LIKE IT'S BEEN FOREVER!

[@Minzerr]

What if Lugia was a psychic / water type?

[@Derson71]

I should be mature enough not to laugh at 1:06 but i am not 😂😂😂

[@It4int0ver]

Is there some guide on how to port newer pokemon into older gens? /e: „small PP“

[@BlackEscanor]

Let's go for my prediction Lugia Ice Beam Psychic Aeroblast Thunderbolt Tier : S Ho-Oh Sacred Fire Psychic Thunderbolt Earthquake Tier : A

[@Nixoth]

29:20 wait i didnt know Giovanni was a pokemon?!

[@timothycummings5710]

Where's the discord link? It's not in the description :(

[@PlutoDarknight]

I will have to accept it, I suppose

[@nightfan1983]

sub 35 is so possible for the not-water-type bird 🤔

[@Talos-wc2li]

Always got to get a PP joke in there. Is it in yet?