Dragonflight Ret Paladin - Blizzard asleep at the wheel??

Now that #Dragonflight beta is coming to a close in the next 7-8 weeks, #Ret #Paladin needs some looking into! It's been a month since the last Blue post! #WOW #worldofwarcraft
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[@Varaben]

I know what you’re thinking - another Ret video?? Yes.

[@CuriousHorizonTV]

Keep them coming! We need more and more. I don't see other way if we would like any good changes in the coming 2 months. Let's pray that the Paladin developer team will "hear" or read our feedback on the forums or these kind of videos. Great job! Thank you very much for the videos and the insights!

[@trawll8659]

Don't know why they didn't just give Ret the swirling hammer Divine Storm replacement Talent from Legion in place of Consecration, that one at least did dmg around the Paladin instead of on the ground. And yes, I would take WoD Ret paladin over what we got in Legion any day of the week because it was fun to play, had buttons to press and Enchanced/Empowered Seals talent was cool af to mess around with, Seals really should return to Paladin, they are far more iconic than Consecration to the point they had the Paladin in BC trailer apply one in basically the first scene.

[@Varaben]

That would be pretty dope.

[@caffec]

- Make Consecration move with the Paladin - Take Consecration off the GCD ( literally no reason for it to be on GCD it doesent even generate HP) - Take Exorcism off the GCD ( no reason for it to be on GCD it doesent even generate HP) Id settle for no CD and GCD on consecration but I just feel moving consecration would be overall much better. These are simple fixes that can definitely be done before DF launch. Im still pissed LAOTL and Spellwarding is gone I hope the they just add these simple changes AT THE VERY LEAST.

[@Varaben]

I dunno if they’re likely to give us something then take it away then give it back. That’s what sucks about those two in particular. I think Ret needs something brand new tbh. I really like the idea of a higher cap on holy power since we do generate a ton through sanctification.

[@agustinsaag2278]

blizzard hate paladins....but much more hate rets

[@Varaben]

I don’t even think it’s hate, I think it’s indifference. They think since Ret has a bubble and 5 seconds of burst every 2 mins that we can’t have other tools that every class has…

[@kowaikokoro]

ret is broken in dragonflight, it can spec into holy and press aura mastery or prot for spellwarding thats big utility :)

[@CalypHo]

Huh?

[@Varaben]

RIP

[@kowaikokoro]

@@CalypHo did you raid in season 1 shadowlands cause ret was busted it could spec holy with ashen and do more dmg then ret during lust, season 2 prot paladin was broken beyond belief the dmg,tankiness and off healing it would do crazy Sadly in season 3 and 4 ret fell off and had barely any representation in raid or keys an minor exeption would be lords of dread mythic that fight during rwf was unplayble for fragile clothies unless warlock so gigachad plate wearer narco went in there playing ret topping the meter on progression kill for echo

[@Ditronus.]

I actually like the wackamole wod playstyle. But I do agree that I dislike the consecrate ability and I hope I'm not forced to use this often in ret as you say. I liked that it was just a filler "push this when you literally have nothing else to do" on SL. It's an example of blizz listening to the 1% of players that have a weird emotional attachment to old, dated abilities and call them "iconic." If you want it to be iconic, don't just call it that, rather make it that. Weak damage over time, static ground effect, long cd, and old animation = consecrate.

[@Varaben]

I’d rather they dumped consecration and divine shield and it would free up their design space a ton for pally. I like the whack a mole play style too.

[@covahredro8370]

Some abilities are iconic though in how the change the playstyle for the better and for just how awesome they look. Final Verdict and Wake of Ashes for example. Frankly speaking I've never cared for Consecration and didn't care when it was gone. When it did come back, I always wanted it to be more of a Utility ability(Much like Demon Hunters Darkness, Monks Ring of Peace and Deathknights Anti Magic Zone ect)rather then anything you have to consistently use during the rotation. But I do like the idea of it having no CD and just being a mana cost.

[@mooncloud6563]

We can have the upgraded final verdict and upgraded Divine Storm.... I think ret paladins are just fine

[@Varaben]

I think it depends more on other classes than our actual kit. Ret hasn’t had the chops to compete seriously in m+ or raiding in all of shadowlands, because we’re just not competitive in dps, so unless that changes it’s gonna be more of the same.

[@hebziba8786atgmail]

It’s so hard to choose a main because so many other classes and spec trees are so good. It’s so painful that paladin is such ass. Hope they get away from the consicration build eventually. Or make it move with you.

[@Varaben]

I think removing or reducing CD and adding mana cost is a fair trade and it’s not like consecration is that amazing in pvp anyway. Every once in a while you can get a stealther out, but you’re usually the kill target anyway, so it’s not a big deal. Moving with you has the benefit of the increasing the value of the heal talents, so that’s something. Just walking around radiating healing would be useful.

[@nuubcake7008]

At this point im constantly tweeting Ion and Holinka.

[@Varaben]

Nice!

[@sergiovaleriani5455]

i wish the used the old concept of fallen sword from diablo, which was scrapped some expansions ago, having a somewhat kinda of teleportation to a set location, would be a gamechanger for the class, and above all, it would be FUN, i think games are supposed to be fun, and i still dont get it why every melee class can move at light speed or teleport, jump (maybe not dks), and yet paladins are always slow with a horse that nobody likes that takes 2 gdcs for it to work properly (if you have to freedom yourself lol). its like: the paladin community DOESNT LIKE THIS, blizzard goes: BUT WE FEEL ITS COOL TO HAVE A HORSE...horse is cool, horse is paladin, leave the horse, just lower the duration, cause as it is on shadowlands it could become a problem (lmao) tbh, its been like 12/15 years that i main ret, i've got tired of complaining, every single xpac i would play the PTR, i would carefuly make a list and say every single aspect of the class felt good, and what could be better, people were making the forums full of constructive feedbacks, it was good till after like a thread that had dunno, maybe 2k replies with a LOT of good feedbacks (i don't remember that if this was on legion or BFA), we finally got a blue post from blizzard, and i remember like it was tomorrow, it said: "its great to see so many paladins coming together! paladins are always known about their heroic stories and such!" people were ENRAGED, like i've never ever seen before, 2k replies, feedbacks, completely ignored with a generic non sense blue post response, this was the turning point for me, after this one, i stopped posting and trying to give feedback, it was the last drop. but yeah, thats the kind of treatment ret paladins get for having divine shield, a stun and healing (not like that is exclusive anymore, nowadays every class have some kind of healing and a crapload of defensives)... feels really bad that blizzard rides the hate wagon that was build up from long time ago, like a stigma that every paladin in general have to carry, being the most hated class in the history of this game, ret can't be strong cause the community doesn't approve, they enjoy ret being weak, cause they die to paladins on world pvp, or instanced pvp... herp derp i've got one shotted by a full geared ret, cry cry, please nerf, bla bla bla, always, always like that. i don't really remember the last time that ret made top4 on those so called raid tier lists, maybe in icecrown on wrath, legion was good too, but the fun component was better than the meters, but still, it was pretty fun, felt good to play, in the end, always middle of the pack or lower, then after some non sense nerfs (like divine radiance that was nerfed 2 days before it went live in retail), they buff the class to make sure we don't drop to bottom 5, and not complain more, cause they would be busy patching warlocks so that they would continue to be op, even through nerfs, lmao now what i just don't get, is why we should need to grab like 2/3 nodes to make one skill the same that it was on shadowlands, as baseline skills, it should just be embedded on our kits, the skil trees should've been only some modifications to the baseline kits to make it better on cleave, aoe, pvp situations, but welp, people wanted this system back, guess the dude that takes care of the paladin skill trees never played the class, cause man this is just a mess, everything is all over the place, and its just sad, i had high hopes, i'm not jumping off a cliff cause there is still time, but i'm tired, every single xpac is like this, lets see what the future holds

[@Varaben]

There’s a lot of easy things they could do to help with mobility: make unbound freedom baseline or a class talent, make unbreakable spirit affect divine steed, make divine steed at least break root, etc. like the kit is fine it just needs tweaked a lot. I saw a breakdown of spec representation in m+ for the last 6 seasons and ret averages like 9th out of 11th for melee specs. Consecration stuff isn’t gonna fox that nor is battle res. We have to actually have a decent aoe kit and it just isn’t there yet.

[@Ditronus.]

That brez tho...

[@Varaben]

Definitely cool! But for dps in raids and m+, all that matters is damage profile. If our cleave isn’t great and there’s a ton of cleave fights that b rez is nothin.

[@Zutang777]

I also wonder why sword of justice has 5-6 talents exclusively for that ability. so lack luster.

[@Varaben]

Yep so many talents and the damage is poopy.

[@RollieRdz]

Who's the dev in charge....I just wanna talk..

[@Varaben]

Lol I have no idea.

[@LoneWolf32321]

They nerfed art of war cuz of the tier set. Which is bad design imo. Makes the whole spec suffer for the abysmal design of the tier set. They also got this big push towards consecration for some reason. Its a boring button to press just /yawn.

[@Varaben]

I dunno how they make consecration fun to press but sanctification ain’t it. I do think the ideal of passive hp generation is fine, but I also think we need more holy power

[@mrgoob76]

you know... these ret paladin doom and gloom videos are really funny to me as a Ret player from pretty much the beginning of vanilla. Why you ask?... easy i will tell you.. over the xpacs i have seen WORSE paladin changes over the years and the version we have now.... is MUCH BETTER then other versions in the past. right now in my opinion with almost 18 years of experience playing this class. The trees right now are probably the best they have ever been. like i don't know what people are expecting Ret is a DPS tree not a support tree because if you want ret to be a support tree then you have to say good bye to dps.... its plain and simple there are ENOUGH talents in both trees to passively boost your damage to SURPASS the nerfs like LOOK at the full tree instead of picking abilities and whining "OH i have to play only this way" furthermore there is MORE to the game then stupid PVE raids, so let that sink in.....

[@Varaben]

I actually have not raided all expac, so I don’t really care about raiding. I find m+ and arena much easier since I can do them in 1 hr chunks and play when I can. I start off though by saying Ret isn’t in a bad place at all, it’s just annoying that every other class is actually getting developer attention. The Ret tree IS poorly designed and goes against their design goals (stated in other class threads - eg one talent leading to another should sort of make sense. Not like Empyrean power leading to righteous verdict nonsense). If they can’t think of any new abilities then just say that - I’d rather they just said “hey we think Ret functions well as is because of x y z.” But the lack of communication is the worst. This expac is centered around the talent trees, so if your main is Ret and it’s got a poorly designed tree with nothing new or interesting in it…then the expac is probably going to disappoint.

[@mrgoob76]

@@Varaben ok let me ask you something... with ALL of the BS politics coming out of blizzard right now... do you really think expecting change and new things is going to happen for paladins with the CURRENT team... the short answer is NO adapt overcome and endure thats how i have been doing it since vanilla people need to stop having high expectations from blizzard... all the old guard employees are GONE and then you don't have to be super disappointed... Shadowlands is a joke and ranks in my top 3 WORST xpacs ever. You want to know why i think that.. its because I had high expectations for it and got SUPER disappointed... i am a pvper i play ranked and unranked BGs ONLY. Blizzard needs to learn there is MORE to this game then stupid PVE raids and stop balancing it for PVE which is the MAJOR problem with it in the first place

[@tbtorres]

The guy responsible for paladin (yeah, its just one person to any class and in some cases is 1 person for 2 classes) dont know nothing about the class, every fking expansion the class is worse and worse

[@Varaben]

Pretty crazy cause you have a battalion of people on the forums providing good feedback (in a lot of cases). They almost seem like they’re purposefully antagonizing us by adding Blessing of spellwarding or long arm of the law then taking it away.

[@tbtorres]

@@Varaben there are a lot of arrogant developers at blizzard. They get offended when people give great feedback, it only takes the amount of time they say "thanks for the feedback but it's working as intended". Do you really think they read all those feedback? When 1 dev listened was in MoP with warlock, just look how insane and fun locks were in MoP

[@covahredro8370]

@@Varaben I think that probably had more to do with the dev wanting to give Paladins those abilities, but high ups(like Ian)being against it.

[@bryanheart6149]

NO. There is absolutely no reason we should have to compromise when the excuse they have given us is invalidated by the existence of MONK, DRUID, SHAMMAN at the top of the charts and playable classes. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT come to me and say we are nerfed because of your healing and support skills when those three also heal and in some cases have more value in utility. Any of those three in less gear currently can do similar dps with less effort invested. I shouldn't have to reroll and I shouldn't have to fit into your narrow box.

[@paullatina7413]

So it’s blizzard being blizzard…..tone deaf

[@Varaben]

It’s kind of incredible how little communication they’re giving when the talent trees are like the main thing in Dragonflight. Some specs are really getting a lot of attention.

[@robusmc1713]

I mained Ret since Classic its All I play,I hate the new talents it feels like a Nerfed version of what we have in shadowlands, The necro ability is crap, I want the Vanq hammer so we can control the proc, Divine toll is Useless in pvp without ringing clarity ,id rather have blessings like holy got, Long arm of the law is a MUST, and plz get rid of Justicar Vengeance and put Divine protection there so we can have shield of vengeance and Divine protection since we Lost Spell warding, they are Both weak we need defence we are wet noodles, this might be the first time in 17+ years I might change mains it really SAD

[@Varaben]

Worst case for me is we play an aggressive Holy Paladin since at least they can get groups easier and pseudo dps. We won’t get the big crits and stuff but at least holy gets more utility and their kit looks decent for Dragonflight. The thing is Ret looks…decent it’s just nothing new or special and that’s not gonna fly when most other specs are getting a lot of attention. Just makes us look like the black sheep.

[@robusmc1713]

@@Varaben seems like every expac this happens ,Paladin deserves better, its so sad because its the Only class i like, I love the survivability it has, if I dont play it Im not sure what ill do

[@giorgosdro7059]

The problem is obvious to me,it's the dev!The dev is an idiot who thinks himself a genius,that's why there's ZERO communication. He's probably thinking of us like peasants who can't understand his major intellect. Meanwhile,look at rogue/shaman/warrior,where the devs communicate with the audience and their talent trees are amazing,because they're not afraid to take ideas from the playerbase!They're open to letting players who play the class,help them! I can just imagine the pala dev flailing his arms like a baby ''Waaah,the steed is awesome,waaah,consecration is amazing,i'm always right!! lalalaala i'm not listening to you''

[@Varaben]

I was thinking let’s find a class with decent engagement and the warrior one jumped out at me. Such a night and day difference.

[@giorgosdro7059]

@@Varaben What sets apart those devs from our dev is their willingness to communicate with the players and to implement the players' ideas. The pala dev has this obsession with divine steed+consecration and he refuses to let go and admit that it won't work. My way or the highway mentality. . You want long arm of the law?NO,back on the horse because i said so!!7 talents and tier set bonus about consecration because i like it If we had the warrior or shaman dev team for a month,we would have seen some major improvements As a pala main(holy and ret),i think that a lot of retri players are on the honeymoon phase because of BIG DAMAGE NUMBERS!!!!Once our numbers get tuned and nerfed,we're gonna be a class with no defensives,no utility,no mobility and mediocre damage.

[@adrianlupu2470]

so true

[@covahredro8370]

I don't think so, I think the Dev is probably locked in to certain things by higher ups. So they only have set things they can work with. Plus Blizzard like most devs are either lazy or pushed for time. But considering that blizzard has been pandering to groups you shouldn't pander too. Groups that don't care about the game, its story or the in game universe. Ones that only care about pushing their THE MESSAGE!. It then doesn't surprise me that paladins would suffer because of this. Simply because Paladins are derived from Traditional European Christianity and Masculinity.

[@TSHawkz]

Copy paste the wotlk ret paladin and adapt it to dragonflight . Make it so its support/dps with buffs, hand of prot etc, apply seals such as seal of command. Edit: Take away holy power and make it first come first serve.

[@Varaben]

Agree, I haven’t and don’t plan to play wrath (just don’t have the time), but from what I recall it was a lot of fun.

[@covahredro8370]

And head butt the keyboard in how dumbed down it would become again. I'm currently playing Wrath again and its just mash all dps keybinds at the time or play wack a mole. Also Art of War doesn't even reset the Cooldown of Exorcism. Making the proc worthless 99% of time for dps. If you want to go back to a time when Ret was at its peak, then WoD would be it. It had all the buffs, blessing, seals and Auras. A fast rotation with all abilities hitting decently hard as each other. Mobility options, snares and a mid range damage capability.

[@TSHawkz]

@@covahredro8370 Never played wod but when I see you said seals blessings etc i'd be up for that.

[@justinerickson282]

i stopped my sub and had my Drafonflight bundle refunded. im tired of this paladin dev

[@Varaben]

Rip.