Difference Between Covert Narcissism and Quiet BPD

[@lynstrawberry5645]

I’m having an episode while watching this. I have major depression with bpd and life is hard right now

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

*hug* Don't read the cesspool that is this comment section (life is very hard these days but there are still some people who have a heart and basic human decency); I wish you well in your recovery ❤

[@meganjohnson9540]

Oh, bunny, sending you all the love and all the hugs and a cookie. 😘

[@drina4706]

I wish you well! You will get through this depression! You can control the BPD-- remission is possible. Dr. Fox talks about this all the time. May GOD bless you and heal your past hurts.❤

[@kengaroo5170]

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespassed against us." -The Lord Prayer Nobody is perfect.

[@pupchubs6301]

This helped me a lot. Your way of explaining this really clicked for me. Thank You

[@mateuszwojak2092]

Doskonale omówine różnice w tych dwóch typach osobowości, mnie dotyczy osobowość BPD, korzystam z Twojego podręczniaka wydanego w Polsce, uważam że to najlepsza publikacja jaką można na obecny czas zakupić, jest świetnie opracowana, pozdrawiam serdecznie wszystkich.

[@jwhubert91]

I definitely relate to the "stuffing" behavior you mentioned. Thanks for this great video.

[@DrDanielFox]

I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.

[@RedHeadForester]

I very nearly ended the 7 month long relationship a month or two in, on the first or second discard (which had suicide threats and everything), but then did lots of research and figured she had quiet BPD. It wasn't until 2 weeks _after_ I finally ended it (due to her total lack of accountability for cheating) that I realised she's a covert narcissist and I'd been being emotionally abused.

[@lelemong]

But seriously though, thank you Dr. Fox for the insightful and informative video. Your work and content genuinely help my life!

[@LilBrownieD]

Looking forward to this one

[@DrDanielFox]

Thanks

[@kurtfreundlich-mayne5363]

Where have you been Mr Fox, you basically described my last Situation-ship down to the finest detail. Everything that you talked about happened. However my ex and I both diagnosed each other. I know that ether of us are qualified to do so but you nailed it on the head for what we both wanted, needed and what we did to each other. What I am still trying to work out is why were we both drawn to each other? If I had this video 3 years ago. I would have been in a much better position than I am today but this video was like the missing piece. Thank you for your service and support to people who are struggling with these disorders and wanting to help them find a way to help them change their lives.

[@DrDanielFox]

Glad it was helpful

[@edwong4178]

I wonder if you could do another video about the difference between ADHD and Quiet BPD, since people with ADHD can also suffer from low self-worth, rejection sensitivity dysphoria and substance use disorder.

[@angelinaelder5474]

Thank you for your Education Knowledge

[@baruchrevivo2966]

Thank You for helping me know the clear difference between us and them. Knowing the truth. The exact right map to a rigorous split reality will help me keep my trauma bondings strong and filled with high quality sophistications ❤😊

[@baruchrevivo2966]

Just kidding. Wish you all infinite belief to keep falling back to compassion. And the wisdom to balance between compassion, pity self and other❤

[@baruchrevivo2966]

But the dialectic of shame and rightesnous is addictive... And trust your gut, you are smelling it all over me..

[@mapsdot9223]

Ex wife was a quiet bpd. The way you can tell is in conflict. They're omnibenevolent in their own mind. They deflect any blame with a 'What? I didn't mean to' attitude while assigning ill intent to you based upon how what you did made them feel. And the secondary psychosis and referential ideation ensures 99% of what you do is both negative and about them. Bottom line: avoid people who mistake security for intimacy at all costs. If you are in a relationship like this already, the first time you hear 'I don't feel safe', run!

[@massabranca]

This helps a lot. My relationship with a person who I perceive now to be quite align with our description of quiet bpd has ended more than 1 year ago. Still, she confuses me. Tries to reach me although she was already in another relationship 2 months after our break up, and she really messes up my head, while always playing the fragile victim card. I cut all contact, but still I catch myself wondering about her. And by recognizing tons of episodes of her behavior through your video, I feel a little more at peace with the notion that there is nothing I could have done to really make it work if she didn't realize she had theses quite intricate problems.

[@sofiemagko5911]

Thank you for information! Just wanted to mention that for me it is difficult to watch a video bc of the editing, I had to look away to listen 😅

[@cassiejackson1053]

I just got the workbook a few days ago and have been watching all the videos and I feel as if I learned more then I have in years of therapy!! I came looking for anything to help someone with bpd/bipolar navigate through the waters of choosing to stay after sever infidelity and betrayal. Maybe something to help my partner understand (the cheater) the inner battle. If I missed any videos that could shed some light on any of that i would love it if someone could tag me! Ps Thank you for the work you are doing!!!!

[@DrDanielFox]

Thank you and I’m finishing a BPD relationship workbook now. I’m glad my relationship videos help you too.

[@joe-yuugen]

The cheater is inside and out. When there is a delusional belief of all good, all bad; then it must be someone else's fault or completely one's own. It is extreme delusion that feels like the planet will explode because it doesn't make sense. Distress tolerance helps us radically accept and then finally see what it is inside, without extreme triggering and how the pain distorts our view of self and outside. The reality is both parties are unhealthy in these relationships. They are codependent based on attachment wounds in both partners. Eventually, in time and separation, we can see what survival methods were necessary to make it through childhood, then we expected it all to work out when we came of age. In many cases, the past was F#$ked up, and we learn to accept it and eventually distance ourselves without denying or twisting it or others outside that remind that fatal inner flaw. It takes a long time, but you can do it. The crying and unconditional love and acceptance of Jesus Christ, helps us love that inner child that didn't get the love and succor needed to unconditionally oneself the way they are. After that and a lot of healthy reenforcement and behavioral changes, the future is bright but still painful. We are no longer slaves of someone else's delusion or our own. It is a life anew. Jesus always loves us as we are, more than we can possible love ourselves or others. Jesus has already won over evil. Whenever the dark side urges anger, violence, and cruelty; channel Jesus in His name and survive the storm, be proud in His name and your own after you made it. You are on one step to controlling it for the rest of your life. People or incidents on the outside no longer matter when your world is yours.

[@jules6473]

🎉Great that sound like something we need ​@@DrDanielFox

[@FlowerUruguay]

Personally I feel like I've gained more confidence but now I have symptoms more on the NPD spectrum than in the Quiet BPD spectrum... so I don't know if that's good or bad. I feel that I have to accept this about myself and hopefully over time I won't have criteria for any personality disorder... but being ashamed of it would only make me feel more like a victim so it's not possitive for me.

[@brettstadelmann2589]

Engaging and educational 👍👍👍

[@DrDanielFox]

I'm so glad this video was helpful for you. I wish you well.

[@jmanke6057]

I screwed up once a beautiful woman with BPD asked me does this outfit look good? I should have said yes, but so surprised I said don’t be stupid you look beautiful, but she only heard stupid. Trying to train myself but her therapist ought to say listen to whole statement. I should have said absolutely yes. That woman so brilliant I thought it be ok but her self image is so low I hadn’t realized how low. She is really a genius but her self image doesn’t believe it. Wish she knew. If I point out her qualities she says what are you trying to sell me? Hard to earn forgiveness.

[@AddictedtoGuidance777]

Hey. I just want you to know that this is not your responsibility and if she won’t forgive you over something like that it’s not the BPD. Maybe there were wider issues or maybe she’s a narcissist

[@jmanke6057]

@ Maybe but I hope it is BPD seems to be more hopeful than NPD. I will be more careful talking in the future. I need to use more care perhaps. i thank you for trying to put me at ease. I didn’t think it would offend.

[@jmanke6057]

Some have called her a narcissist I hoped it was something else.

[@Treasuredkaleidoscope]

To me it's very different. But I can see because I have bpd

[@reneegardner2286]

Same

[@fab10fitnessless]

Thanks for the video 🙏🏼 Any tips on how to start a conversation with my ex-girlfriend about getting help for both of these: high-functioning BPD and vulnerable narcissism (sometimes grandiose)? I’ve already tried without great success. Results were just the opposite, only denial. Bpd workbook, bpd guided journal and bpd card deck are already ordered. How to make her to read them?

[@roberth4395]

You cannot. People who have NPD are dead inside, literally. They either born with it or got it through trauma. It usually happens in childhood and they forever stay at the metal age of when the trauma occured. They put on masks to pretend. If she figures out, you know her secret, she will dedicate her life destroying you. They never forgive, never move on. The reason you or anyone can’t help a narcissist, is because a narcissist will never admit them being wrong, being imperfect. If you cannot accept you are fault and ble everyone else, you cannot improve. They also do not care about anyone, but themselves. They only use people. I saw many men who lived with NPD women, they all wasted their lives. Be smart, let her go and live your own life.

[@MegaNicolemarie]

Hi It's nice that you care so much about your partner. You can watch this show together and also read the the cards and book together ..like a team. Patience and kindness...understanding..for sure Prayer. I wish you all the best.

[@MyValki]

This was very informative... Still struggle to differentiate them, or are "both" and "mixed" valid options as well... Or should I wait for petulant BPD vs Covert NPD?

[@aa-yv7uw]

Hello, Can you enable dubbing on KZbin? This would allow me to listen to you in my mother tongue? Thank you very much

[@bethtaylor9773]

I wonder what Dr. Fox thinks of Dr. Robert Hare's and Dr. Kent Kiehl's research on narcissism.

[@DrDanielFox]

I'm big fans of both

[@bethtaylor9773]

@@DrDanielFox I wasn't accurate - their research is on psychopathy, but it certainly makes me wonder about narcissistic pd. Hoping that the genetic and physical aspects have future research coming for narcissistic pd. Has helped me change my expectations of a few family members and set and keep good boundaries without feeling badly about it.

[@Xaxtarr_Neonraven]

Yes, their identity is wrapped up in suffering but the suffering is your fault, and it builds up inside, until they have a choice to create a new identity, but without their current identity, they perceived themselves as existentially nothing. Everything is perceived as persecution, but isn't it a failing of perspective and imagination. It's almost a neuroticism with nervous system validation. How does one then create calm and a return to human values rather than a constant state of struggle. What they desire is validation of their ego identity, but this is also the absolute last thing they need. I lost a lifelong friend to undiagnosed personality disorder and cultism. Their family became shattered. All I perceived from them, at the time, was relentless criticism and invalidation, unless their perspective remained dominant. I experience my own break, but I now finally can see the interpersonal dynamics and the causes. I had only wanted to help and heal, but never knew the whole story. Everything was drama and an inability to relax, forgive or accept. It took me years to heal. Their suffering was almost an identity trap, a trap with a constant threat of existentially dire consequences. I wish I knew then what I know now, but I still don't have the skill or the strength to change that dynamic; perhaps a lifelong regret and sadness.

[@theworldaccordingtojaimie8348]

Can someone be a covert narcissist AND have petulant BPD at the same time? Because my husband checks ALL OF THE BOXES for BOTH.

[@DrDanielFox]

Someone can have both, yes

[@xxd0lliexx520]

wish could get my friends teenager to do therapy. also the state of iowa sucks. im quiet bpd myself but shes the evil mean covert narc and i wish she could get help before shes on he rown in the world and has an aweful time

[@NancyMichaels-mk3st]

I found the differentiation of these two disorders very confusing

[@sparkygump]

What about passive aggressive narcissists?

[@FloppedASF]

What if I have both

[@ElinorRigby]

I think you get a podcast at that point.

[@MrMawnster]

It's possible.

[@FlowerUruguay]

Dr. I'd like to know if one heals core content, does symptoms go away? Have you honestly seen this in clients?

[@DrDanielFox]

I can tell you that people do burn and develop strategies so they’re activations and acting out and self attack behaviors due decrease to the point where they’re able to manage it. It is absolutely possible.

[@FlowerUruguay]

@ what do you mean people “do burn”? English is not my native tounge

[@Budgiefun]

This is great, but I found the video effects to be quite distracting and a bit annoying.

[@DrDanielFox]

Thanks. I’m so glad you found helpful.

[@AntonSilv]

I mean...we can go on for ages talking about the slight differences and intent. At the end of the day, their victims suffer all the same.

[@DrDanielFox]

I’m glad you found the video helpful.

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

The "BPD rage" is in many instances directed inward though & people with BPD are capable of self-reflecting and true empathy (when they aren't in an episode). And not all (I would say that most of them aren't actually) people suffering from BPD are abusers so the differences matter. Especially considering the fact that 10% of people with this disorder end their lives and 70% attempt it at least once during their lifetime. This disorder causes the most suffering the individuals who have it

[@AntonSilv]

Idk I've seen people diagnosed with BPD be extremely manipulative, controlling, isolating, and life destroying to their partners.

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

@AntonSilv There are various subtypes of this disorder (the more externalizing ones tend to overlap with covert narcissism more) but for the most part it's just stigma, in this instance, perpetuated by you sharing your anecdotal 'evidence'. People with OCPD can be controlling too, addicts can be manipulative & people with depression can be irritable yet none of these disorders are nearly as stigmatized as BPD so it would be nice if people were more careful with their wording while speaking about mental health...

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

@@AntonSilv I had a friend with diagnosed full-on BPD who ended her own life and never 'victimized' any person during her entire lifetime so people perpetuating these harmful stereotypes piss me off tbh

[@DinaTous]

I think they are clueless how they manipulate to get their needs met.

[@DrDanielFox]

It's true that many people may not realize the impact of their behavior on others. Understanding these traits can really help in navigating relationships.

[@RippleDrop.]

They also do not want to find out, when this is pointed out, to them.

[@mazfaka]

Thank you so much!

[@joe-yuugen]

Regardless of their reasons, abusing, exploiting and manipulating others is unacceptable. They need to learn consequences and it is not going to fly. They go after kids or more susceptible people. They need to suffer the consequences and accept the need to grow up.

[@joe-yuugen]

For those fighting the pain and using the skills, mindfulness, and attempting to communicate the need for compassion and care, I deeply respect your journey. A lot of us are in the same boat nowadays. Please check yourself before you wreck yourself or us. We believe in you. No one is stronger than the one that survived repeat trampling and still remained or strived to remain pure of heart.

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

@@joe-yuugen You need to learn what a personality disorder is (fyi: brain scans from people with BPD showed that they have smaller amygdala which is responsible for emotional regulation - this is not a matter of immaturity) and if you're talking about NPD: those patterns are very unlikely to change

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

@@joe-yuugen Too bad that you don't believe in fact-checking before posting bs online 😉

[@joe-yuugen]

@@alltheliliesbloomed clearly, you are the smartest

[@alltheliliesbloomed]

@joe-yuugen It's not that clear to me but thanks for the compliment 😉

[@Seasonsofself]

This is a lot of assumption of intent of people. How do you know this isn’t CPTSD or just mental masterbation?

[@LarsOutzen]

it does not really matter if 'they' are quite or Narc! the problem is lack of respect for other people's autonomy so they share dissociation, using a firm tacit belief of inequality, which all NTs also suffer from (yes I am autistic) some people believe other people MUST comply with their judgement & core values, hence be unfree, eg because I 'care' for you this & that way, you MUST 'care' for me this & that way - as if it is not a choice? so it becomes entitlement - which gets worse the further a person slips away from reality - hence delusions all high functioning autistic people put a mask on, because NTs attacks us using FOG, so the first 45y I felt shame/guilt/obligation when other people express negative emotions, now I know I can say 'no' and it is okay, yet broken to a degree where I see both quiet BPD & covert Narc in my self. I used to stuff it for years, until burnout, did not know why my PDA dis-allowed me to complete stuff I wanted to do for many people - even myself. it turns out, that NTs aren't chronically afraid to do stuff (in certain areas) - which is kind of unfair - but of course it does not make sense to attack them for their in-ability to do certain things? Instead ask, what is it that triggers another person's fight-response - and you have the answer. You have some implicit assumptions, eg being stronger is better, and being rejected is bad? And you fail to state another assumption: being criticized (for being different) is a good thing? Hence being an NT is just as bad as Covert Narcissism and Quiet BPD, from a autistic viewpoint. Disrespect for other people's individual core values, is driving all of it. There is only action: yes,no,maybe. Everything else is unmet expectations, a failure to predict the future from another persons shoes.

[@codedfinance1149]

6:24

[@jenbenRPN]

Jesus Christ is King over any of these strongholds.

[@jordysmomsbasement]

Have been waiting for this vid! Thanks so much Doc. I suspect that my on-again, off-again partner has Covert NPD and Petulant BPD. To me those are the two that correlate the most. Their chronic victim mentality and use of the silent treatment is so exasperating to deal with 😒.

[@DrDanielFox]

I’m glad you found the video helpful.