One of the smarter people on KZbin. Nice to see someone actually take their time to explain the foundations of their opinions especially when it revolves around actual factual evidence. Well done sir and even 4 years later, thank you for your time!!!
@mbw652 жыл бұрын
Here's my take on this. A 1970 Speer loading manual shows max loads for .38 Spcl the same as a +p load in the latest Speer manual. So we always had the opportunity to load +p back in the day.
@bdobson16168 ай бұрын
Yup and i hot loaded. So since then I have aged so not quick to experiment.😊
@brandonm55893 жыл бұрын
I may be a child at heart, but the phrase "shooting hot loads" won't ever not make me giggle
@KerrySturm2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much I just bought a 1963 Colt detective special 38 glad to hear +p will be ok your awesome.
@howardkahn43303 ай бұрын
it can not handle +P'as as a seady diet.....mine broke parts twice....
@spiritualawakenings62512 жыл бұрын
Before +P my neighbor shot at two guys with a 1920s H&R 32 S&W that had broken in on him. One was hit in the chin and paralyzed for life when the projectile settled in his neck, and the other guy ran. I think my question is have criminals skin really gotten that much tougher over the years or is all this high powered stuff just an excuse for more expensive toys In the name of protection.?
@joebauers37462 жыл бұрын
The +P is more powerful, but it does make shooting a 38 a bit more snappy. Watch Paul Harrell's video on it, you can clearly tell shooting the +P rapidly would be a bit more of a problem, and he is an amazing shooter, put it in the average shooter's hands and it would be even tougher.
@spiritualawakenings62512 жыл бұрын
@@joebauers3746 So the old 32 and 38 S&W cartridges were just fine for self defense. It's all just a racket. I have handled firearms since 1970 don't need Paul or anyone else.
@1sinister80 Жыл бұрын
Stopping power. Big and or faster less accuracy required.
@spiritualawakenings6251 Жыл бұрын
@@1sinister80 lol 😂 right
@alterego6935 Жыл бұрын
@@1sinister80 Uh, accuracy is always required. A hit with a .32 is a lot more stopping power than a miss with a .44.
@rickmercuri5471 Жыл бұрын
Excellent video! I have a S&W model 60 that I bought in 1985 and fired plenty of +P to know it can withstand the pressure. Like you, I typically use the inexpensive Magtech 38 Special rounds at the range.
@h.r.puffnstuff8705 Жыл бұрын
For the past 45 years my m36 no dash has had nothing but +P and home loads that nudge slower 357mag territory. It’s likely averaged 15 rounds a month in that time frame. My m60 no dash has had around 600 rounds of +P over the past 3 years. They both lock up as tight as my wife’s new m638. The family member and original owner of my M36 has been loading at home since the 1950s. He told me the 38Special load specs of old are every bit as hot as modern +P loadings. I don’t sweat the +P fear.
@robertslusser67534 жыл бұрын
Very informative video. I carry an older Taurus Model 85 38 special steel framed 3" for edc that was made in 1992. I've never really been comfortable shooting too much +p ammo in it but I always figured that the steel frame could handle it. I especially liked how you pointed out the different frame enhancements and reinforcements on the S&W j-frame aluminum alloy frame. I've wondered how they could make an aluminum frame revolver that was stronger than a steel frame and could be rated for +P ammo. Thank you for the info.
@clintwelborn23895 жыл бұрын
I have a nickel plated old model 10 S&W from 1957 that fires plus p like a champ. Never had a prob with the plus p. Bravo
@jenniferbeatty75454 жыл бұрын
What was the reason for nickel plating?
@coaltrain44233 жыл бұрын
@@jenniferbeatty7545 Nickel plating is a corrosion inhibiting finish that slows rust and makes things shiny,and pretty.The same care given to a blued gun should be administered to a nickel plated gun,however.
@davidtaylor195Ай бұрын
Detroit PD use to issue a 5in NickelPlated 38 Spec. @@jenniferbeatty7545
@tumbleweed55485 жыл бұрын
my opinion is you are 100% correct. i would trust the metal in the 50's through the 70's more than the newer ones.just hard to beat a model 36 Smith.
@richardcheese47222 жыл бұрын
I thought that at first while fretting over this topic but I dont let that faze me any longer so long as the arm is from Colt or S&W. I'm pretty confident their metallurgy was very good around the turn of the century and quite competent before that. If you think about it Elmer Keith was experimenting with custom hot 38special in the late 20s early 30s in a 38special gun manufactured around then. He ended up birthing 357mag out of a 38 special. Run of the mill 1930s factory 357 mag is about 200-300 fps hotter then than the big name box stuff you get at the store today according to the old timers that loaded at home since the 1950s. 38 Special+p wasnt a thing till the 1970s. You've got a few interesting things that happened then. Sue they neighbor became rampant in the USA and in the arms industry? Ammunition loading scales were changes from one system to another. From what all the old home loaders have told me all ammo loading was neutered. Especially in dimensions that had been around the longest. Theres alot of legal liability when your in the business of manufacturing arms and ammo. Nowdays I dont fret over what I stuff inside any of my wheelies when it comes to big name store bought ammo. The boutique makers like Buffalo Bore that are considered so hot? They're essentially loading stuff like grandpa used before the 1970s neutering.
@christithomas28974 жыл бұрын
Thank you for this informative video regarding the differences of ammo for 38 Special. It helped me greatly and I appreciate the time you took to explain the differences for +P. When I received the ammunition in the mail I was very concerned with the noted “full size handgun” notation.
@ol-Sarge4 жыл бұрын
When I entered law enforcement in 1982 I carried the S&W Mal 10 with the lighter, tapered bbl. The new thing was we carried the .38 spl 158 gr LSWCHP + P load, known now as the FBI load. At that time your typical load of ammo was 18 rounds. Some carried it in loops, some in dump boxes and young whippersnappers like me, speed loaders. I was teased for carrying (gasp) a third speed loader, giving me 27 rounds. I figured if the bad guy was betting on me having 18 rounds and then rushing me he was going to retreat it. We also shot the +P loads in our off duty/ detective Chiefs special pistols. New tests show it doesn’t expand in the snub nose. I e since gone to the Remington 110 grain SJHP LOAD, hoping the lighter non + P round will expand. If anyone has done tests with this round, please let me know. I also use it in my S&W M&P pre modal 10. I have also carried my Chief Special loaded with the 148 grain wadcutter round as I understand it performs well out of the 2” bbl. The Chief of my small hometown PD carried wadcutter in his Modal 10 back in the 1960s. He said it was better than the then common 158 grain LRN cartridge. I think he was right. He did shoot a burglar several years later and the wadcutter rounds stopped him. The next morning I walked to school right by the spot and saw the blood on the pavement.
@frederickking1660 Жыл бұрын
I just bought some Remington plus p fbi type ammo. That lead hollow point semi wadcutter is one nasty bullet. I think it is all you need for everyday carry. If bigger trouble is brewing I have much bigger options.
@tylerturner54426 жыл бұрын
I agree 100% with everything you said. Alot of people are scared to death of plus p ammo..they think its going to turn the revolver into a hand grenade and that's simply not true. Todays plus p is not that big of a deal. I have shot some 60s era standard ammo and it was way hotter than any of todays plus p with the exception of buffalo bore. Im not saying to go firing hundreds of plus p in a non rated gun but a few here and there at the range and carrying them for self defense is not a problem. As long as the revolver is in decent condition your good to go.
@jsmunitions14715 жыл бұрын
I looked at the proof data that SAAMI puts out and they say to use the +P proofing standard for ALL .38 Special firearms.
@mikey38004 жыл бұрын
Ive read the same 38 special had been downgraded over the years
@cleondubois12704 жыл бұрын
@@jsmunitions1471 Read a contributor recently who seemed knowledgeable & advised not to use plus-Ps if the revolver was old enough to have a pinned bbl. .Don't recall his name.
@jsmunitions14714 жыл бұрын
@@cleondubois1270 Yea, the proofing info I mentioned from SAAMI is for modern .38 Special revolvers. They're required to be proofed for +P loads regardless of barrel markings. That said, standard for proofing loads is 20% above max pressure for a given cartridge. Max pressure for .38 Special vs. .38 Special +P is a 1,500 PSI difference. Would +P loads in something like a S&W 10-6 with a pinned barrel be hard on the gun? For sure. Increased wear and tear on parts would be expected in this case. However, would it be enough pressure to cause a catastrophic failure? Probably not. People were firing +P ammo in these guns long before the actual +P rating came about.
@samhotstick13.285 жыл бұрын
Great video I now have a older model 36 with a 3 inch barrel, made in the early 80s I was avoiding plus p ammo but now I'll shoot some. And load it for personal protection.
@marstondavis5 жыл бұрын
Shoot 'regular' ammo at the range. At the end of your session you may want to shoot some plus P so you'll be familiar with that particular rounds recoil. It is a bit more than other ammo's recoil. Get to know the round you'll be using to save you're life.
@michaelgibbs30115 жыл бұрын
Before 38 Special ammo was rated +P, standard pressure for that round was MORE than today's +P. That was the industry standard. That standard was lowered by the industry. The +P rating is a marketing term. I have a Colt Cobra, my EDC. It was made in 1954. My carry ammo is Remington Golden Saber +P.
@Lee-rq1ek5 жыл бұрын
B I N G O !!! Remington Golden Saber are great cartridges in any caliber.
@jenniferbeatty75454 жыл бұрын
Makes complete sense!
@danlong89224 жыл бұрын
The Golden Saber is a terrific load; I have lot # that gets 920 f.p.s. from my 1975 agent. Be aware, however, that pre-1968 Colt D Frames had .354 caliber barrels. They were not designed for jacketed bullets. I know of a case where a bullet.got lodged in the barrel of a Detective Special and a couple more bullets lodged behind it before it blew.
@veganlifestyleloveanimals17443 жыл бұрын
Yeah I don't think so. My uncle was a cop back in the 70's. The garbage ammo back then I could shoot one handed with my nails done. I can't do that with today's +p ammo.
@ryanjacobsen95572 жыл бұрын
@@veganlifestyleloveanimals1744 thats a freaking awesome way to put it I'm dieing your absolutely correct tho
@stateleo43104 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the video, I still have my old 1980's SW model 60 and never had a problem with +P, but it great to know!
@ray1965ify5 жыл бұрын
One of the best videos i have seen. if my b38 special with regular hollow points dosent stop them i will throw the empty weapon at them and run like hell.
@nathanlambshead47784 жыл бұрын
Throwing the gun worked even better against Superman. He had to duck it.
@cosmophlyer4 жыл бұрын
@@nathanlambshead4778 I always wondered why Superman took 6 rounds in the chest with his hands on his hips, then ducked when the empty gun was thrown at him... 😉
@ratagris213 жыл бұрын
Works best in the movies
@garryjones78932 жыл бұрын
Thanks for the giggle, mate.
@kevinketchum52775 жыл бұрын
Absolutely agree. I have a 1977 Colt Cobra and the Colt specs in the manual back then are factory rated at pressures higher than today's +P ammo. Standard ammo for range and +P for EDC.
@slidetbone4 жыл бұрын
Awesome! I have been wondering about that. I have a S&W Model 60 no dash 38 spl and was told not to shoot +P ammo on it. I am going to load up and give it a try! Thanks!!
@normanmallory20553 жыл бұрын
You did well and i agree with your results .. You covered it very well going from standard .38 spl loading to the plus + .. And you touched on pressures of both that is true , going from standard pressure of 17,000 to 18,500 or even 19,000 i read in Lyman's fine reloading manual listed for plus + loads and std loads .. Two things jump out to me , first one is using the same powder but increasing the load 3/10 of one grain or 0.003 to make it a plus + load.. Second thing that jumped out was the increase of velocity of 47 fps .. wow now is that really worth it what the little fps you gain ? If one could pick up 100 fps more yes that's a gain and a lot of gain in fps ..Now then we would be talking plus + that would make a difference .. 3/10 of a grain of the powder is nothing to speak of and of course it depends on the burning rate of the powder but just to gain 47 fps for what ? I ask myself why and what difference is 47 fps going to make on target ? This is assuming it's a violent attack on my life and i have to stop the threat .. I would have to say with all the target material i have fired both loads into for years i see no difference in bullet performance .. True you squeeze the bottle a little tighter you get a couple more drops out of it , but is a couple more drops enough to really help you ?? But it sells more firearms as Plus + is more powerful and that's all you need to know , just don't worry about the rest of it because it does not matter ..
@oldcop182 жыл бұрын
When I started my career in ‘68 we were issued standard pressure 158 grain lead round nose rounds. Super Vel had a round that was as hot or hotter than anything around, but we were restricted to issued ammo and our sergeants made sure we were carrying department ammo. A wife, kids & a mortgage helped ensure I kept department rounds in my issued revolver.
@Mike-up6go3 жыл бұрын
I carry a Smith & Wesson 637 J frame. The cylinder and barrel are stainless steel. Rest of it is aluminum and its +P rated right on the barrel. My carry ammo is Speer Gold Dot 135 grain +P short barrel hollow points. At the range for practice I use a mixture of Remington and Federal 130 grain FMJ standard target loads. The point I am trying to make here is I cannot feel ANY difference whatsoever in felt recoil , muzzle flip, or ability to get back on target amongst the three different loads. They all feel exactly the same to me. IMHO the +P designation is more hype then reality. They can squeeze a bit more out of your pocket by slapping the +P designation on the box while not giving you anything noticeable in return. Just my 2 cents.
@javor0074 жыл бұрын
Hello from Croatia! I have Colt detective (3rd gen.), And I was shoot a few rounds of 38+P ammo. Nothing spectacular was happend. Maybe a litlle bigger BOOM 😀
@jenniferbeatty75454 жыл бұрын
I like Croatia. Beautiful
@javor0074 жыл бұрын
@@jenniferbeatty7545 thank you sir!
@Don.E.634 жыл бұрын
Hey Vladimir you Croatians build some really quality firearms over there! I have a few good work from you guys!
@scooterbob44323 жыл бұрын
I wanted a Colt like yours but bought a S&W Model 60 instead. You don’t need a 38 + P. Just use the regular 38, a very good defensive round. I wish Croatia won in 2018.
@noblemanraisedinabettertim61713 жыл бұрын
One of the best discussions on an important and relevant topic thank you
@redesert_boy82022 жыл бұрын
Good broad discussion regarding different .38 Spl revolver types focused on the snub nose including ammunition varieties. Thank You.
@josephfiorenzo12685 жыл бұрын
I inherited both a 36 no dash and a 10-6. I have shot minimal +p out of both with no issues but I keep them both loaded with +p for self defense. I want 5 and 6 rounds of the best bang for my buck when its life or death and I'm positive they can both handle it.
@joanandmarkmalinowski83982 жыл бұрын
Well done video. Very informative. I shoot mostly 38 special wad cutters for practice.
@jkoeberlein13 жыл бұрын
I've always shot standard pressure out of my 38 specials, but +Ps in the night stand. I do shoot +P for the last cylinder at the range and over 40 years I haven't ruined any of my pistols.
@soyelmasguapo8 ай бұрын
When the use of microfusion (MIM) in the manufacture of firearms was generally extended by weapon manufacturers since the early 1970s, and light aluminum alloy frames became popular, they observed that although They were construction techniques that managed to make firearms cheaper and reduce production times. They had certain material weaknesses that caused some parts to suffer premature fractures, cracks and wear. As it still had to spend a lot of time improving the MIM alloys and metallurgical techniques, the "gun industry lobby" managed to make a "high handed act" and in 1972 the Permanent International Commission on Firearms Testing and the SAAMI, which is who internationally establishes the approvals for cartridges, reduced the maximum pressure values that these ammunition were capable of developing. In fact, the standard of the previous ammunition was higher to the point of being practically what is known today as "+P" (depending on the manufacturer's values) that were created for the needs of users, such as law enforcement, security professionals, armed forces, etc., who needed "full power" ammunition but with the tagline of not recommending at all the use of "+P" ammunition to avoid responsibilities in the after-sale for the deterioration of the weapons in their sales civilians under warranty. There are now many ammunitions with very powerful general purpose loads for use with any weapon thanks to metallurgical improvements and MIM process engineering by manufacturers (some more than others, as always). The fact is that the recurring question always arises whether a classic model from the "PRE-MIM" era (produced with classic forging and machining techniques) can regularly use "+P" ammunition. To answer this, it must be taken into account that for each of the ammunition manufacturers "+P" does not mean "exactly the same" and that in general, many of those ammunition are very close to the previous pressure values for that cartridge. , and for which those weapons were designed. If you get one of those weapons in almost unused condition since many people almost never shoot their weapons and end up sleeping in a nightstand drawer for years, they are inherited, and if they exist and sometimes appear on the market, it could be used "+P" ammunition with values close to those of the original standard without major concerns (do not forget that "+P" is not always the same for each manufacturer, and that is why no one undertakes to categorically say if that type of ammunition can be used in previous weapons due to the risk of a lawsuit from civilians). If we are talking about weapons whose use and history is unknown, we do not know the stress accumulated by the weapon and which generally cannot be observed with the naked eye, out of prudence I would not use "+P". If we are also talking about original models of a certain historical value for which it may even be difficult to obtain a replacement, we must be cautious and in addition to shooting it very sporadically, use the softest loads available for that cartridge. In short, use "+P" ammunition that most closely matches the original standard values of the "pre-mim" era and be aware of the condition of your weapon. Regards!
@scotsaffold73023 жыл бұрын
That was a wonderful video with wonderful information and knowledge i really enjoyed it and learned alot about ammo thanks for the great video and information.
@hardball107Ай бұрын
All good information and I agree with your opinions. I have been shooting and reloading for over 50 years and my favorite cartridge is the 38/357. My grandfather served in the NYPD for 35 years retiring in 1971 and carried a nickel plated 5" M10 in 38 Special. I inherited that M10 and along with many boxes of 158gr 38 Special ammo and liked it so much I purchased a 4" stainless M64 in the 80's used, also an NYPD (NY1) marked revolver. I also have a 642 for CCW. What I have found is that the older 38 Special ammo performs very close to the +P loads of today. The older ammo I have fried in the M64 is right there in velocity with modern +P loadings. Some of the boxes I have are also have early markings of +P in a circle, all are Winchester. Bottom line is that IMHO vintage loadings of 38 Special were much hotter than those of today and those revolvers stood up to the pressures no problem. Would I feed a steady diet to them of +P ? No, it will increase wear and that old M10 has been worked over by the armorers a lot and is a little loose anyhow but my 1994 642 is NOT marked +P but does have the newer magnum frame. Because it is one of my CCW firearms it does get fed a steady diet of +P ammo including my personal 125gr handloads, I practice with what I carry and I have put multiple thousands of +P rounds thru it without harm.
@scottyjohnson3120 Жыл бұрын
Hey, I live there! I just bought a Taurus 38 there and also an NAA 22 Magnum! Great gun shop!
@kylewood83274 жыл бұрын
Great informative video! I agree, I got two non +P guns, model 10-5 and 36-no dash. Both are snubbies. Don’t see why you couldn’t load +P’s for a defensive load only, especially the model 10.
@LA_Commander Жыл бұрын
The model 10 can shoot plus P just fine
@davidtaylor195 Жыл бұрын
Agree with Commander. M10's are ok for +Ps in carry. My 10-5 has hundreds thru it no issue. Pre model # models could be an issue made in 40's and 50's. Shoot regular rounds and few +Ps and carry for duty or CCW.
@WQQKIE4 жыл бұрын
Thank you for the educational video, I learned a lot in 20 minutes.
@kennethm.johnson5 жыл бұрын
So a 1976 mint Colt Cobra 38 Special Snub Nose can handle a Plus P Round? Yes, seems to be the answer you give and for that I say thanks because I agree with you whole heartedly. That old steal isn't growing weaker.
@h.r.puffnstuff87053 жыл бұрын
You probably have the finest steel ever smelted in your colt. A bunch of Ww2 surplus (especially warships) were being scrapped and smelted thruout the 70s. I wouldn't part with any 60s or 70s colt or Smith revolver. You got a modern heirloom quality tool that will last generations. Ain't no mim parts or communist China sourced metals in them. Top it off you've probably got a chunk of metal from a machine that helped win ww2. Cheers
@kendemers88213 жыл бұрын
Great overview on this age-old subject.
@mauidoug3923 Жыл бұрын
I totally agree with your position - shoot the inexpensive stuff at the range and just enough +P to see where it shoots. Most folks involved in a gunfight claim they didn't notice recoil, they were too busy keeping their front sight on target.
@bobroberson92863 жыл бұрын
Totally agree with you completely, the most you may do is damage the forcing cone.
@juanlife025211 ай бұрын
great video 👍 I appreciate you taking time out to help people better understand about the special 😂
@davidgarcia8185 жыл бұрын
One more thing to consider is today's metallurgy the metals are made stronger than past years
@elrico13645 жыл бұрын
Always go for having the 'edge' in anything you do.
@stevenmiller184 Жыл бұрын
Thanks for this. I have a Ruger LCR .38 It is rated for +P ammo, it weighs almost nothing, some steel, some polymer, some aluminum. I also have an old Colt Detective Special in .38 It does not have a +P designation.. but that thing is ALL steel. Very heavy for it's size... I have not shot +P in it but I find it hard to imagine that it could not handle it. It would certainly be more comfortable than the Ruger with heavy loads.
@ray1965ify4 жыл бұрын
I had a chiefs special stolen. now every time i see one i cry.
@normanmallory20553 жыл бұрын
That's sad and it happened to a friend of mine and it just broke her heart as she just loved the gun and could fire it so well ..
@AMI-ei9br3 жыл бұрын
I know how you feel!
@russelder97436 жыл бұрын
My buddy and I were re-loading 38 and went thru 3 books Lyman, Lee and Hornady and the loads were all over the place, max loads of powder were totally different in all 3 books.........which one do you believe........I think you are 100% correct........my wife and I are trying to figure out how to post pictures of mine on the S&W channel.......we aren't great with computers ..........lol, I am an old SOB ).... 64yo.....lol
@wbwills25 жыл бұрын
Interesting.apparently if the people who are in the industry don't seem to know nobody does. .go with your guy feeling on ammo & everything else in life for that matter.tha internet can be helpful for ideas & is entertaining but more misinformation than information by far. Your common sense ,instincts aka but feeling is best. Ps don't feel bad about not knowing everything about computers. Im50 12-20-19 & neither do I. Lucky us.know enough to get by. Good day.Burke .NC,US
@RequiemForYourDream9402 жыл бұрын
Thanks a ton for this review 🙏 🙌 I own a snubby rossi interarms 38 special model 685 that I normally shoot Norma 158 grain fmj, 968 FPS, 329 FT-LBS and they shoot great, and they are accurate to a T, slams any target. I was apprehensive about using plus p ammo out of it but I'm sure or positive if it can handle those rounds by Norma that I normally shoot then I'm certain it can manage the Remington 125 grain semi full metal jacket hollow points that are plus p rated. The plus p Remington rounds are older but in great condition, just sat in the box, inside of a filing cabinet for about 23 year's 😒🙄🤯 Edit plus p works fine out of my gun🤘🤘🤘💯😎
@44hawk283 жыл бұрын
All Steel Model 36 is made out of the exact same materials whether is + P rated or not +P rated. Reason the older guns were not plus P rated, it's because there was no + P ammo at the time. All steel frame model 36 and stainless steel Model 36 firearms are capable of handling plus P 38 Special. Which is only Sammy regulated up to 20,000 lb. B Model 36 was so intrinsically strong, especially considering it had no Barrel stretching inside the frame, between the frame and the cylinder, that they easily stretch the frame a little bit and loaded 357 Magnum into that gun then called it a Model 60. People were already putting really hot 38 loads through the steel frame model 36. Be particular rating that makes a gun rated for plus p is already built into the Model 36 from at least the 1950s if not earlier. The only reason they had to rate other versions of the Model 36 4 + p is because they were making some with aluminum frames and Scandium and unobtanium, and other bullshit. And then you had people in the 1980s making a few Firearms with titanium frames. They were super light. But they didn't realize it titanium is extremely soft when it's not hot. It was an exercise in utter futility. Of course that's silver gun has what looks like a heavier frame, it's not even steal. It's aluminum, it has to be thicker. Quit green apples oranges. The weakest spot on that frame is the top strap just above the front of the cylinder. That and the top strap at the rear of the cylinder is the two places those guns fail when the cylinder comes apart. The Model 36 is as strong as you can get even compared to today's firearms. It's just uncomfortable to shoot because even in steel it's pretty light firearm. I run across people who argue these points till they're blue in the face thinking they know something about firearms. 1895 the nickel steel that was used to build the first Firearms to fire smokeless ammo, made by Marlin in their 3030 the tooling and metal work does the job. And the cowboy action loads are ridiculous. They should be shooting the same load that they would shoot if they were in an actual encounter. Cosopt ask cowboy action loads are a bunch of crap.
@richardziemies83735 жыл бұрын
SMITH AND WESSON SAYS THAT YOU CAN SHOOT+P IF YOUR REVOLVER WAS MADE AFTER 1957. LATER.
@wooddawg48684 жыл бұрын
Richard Ziemies Your right
@wbl56494 жыл бұрын
Thank you
@Mikey5-O4 жыл бұрын
Actually I was told numerous times by Smith & Wesson that they DO NOT recommend shooting +P ammo from any of their guns made prior to 1997. I have a 640 Centennial that I purchased brand new in 1991. I sent it in to Smith & Wesson just to get looked at. I’ve had no issues whatsoever with the gun. They are sending it back to me claiming that the cylinder needs to be replaced due to expanded chambers. They said that + P ammunition most likely caused the chamber damage.
@ptdiamonds94143 жыл бұрын
except for air weight ....
@erichansen36413 жыл бұрын
My FFL, a retired U.S. Marines officer, told me if your revolver is made of steel then you can shoot +P ammo.
@tomr30744 жыл бұрын
Very informative!! Thanks , I'm going down the revolver road now . Waiting for my new trade in model 10 and 37 to get here.
@wooddawg48684 жыл бұрын
I have a 1980's 38 special model 10 and I love it. Now I shoot 38 special Plus P ammo in it from time to time with no issue. It has 38 special on the barrel but I practice with 38 special in it but keep it loaded with 38 special plus p . Plus p is only slightly more pop.
@Tdream82 ай бұрын
Still a very relevant .38 Special and general revolver handgun discussion today. Though I often carry my S&W 637 or Ruger .357 LCR as EDC +P, I also carry my Colt Detective Special or my S&W Combat Masterpiece (4”) with standard .38 Special. Thanks, sir!
@jamesmitchell41784 жыл бұрын
I have an aluminum alloy Model 38 made early 1980's. I saw evidence online that a lot of aluminum alloy 38's made by SW developed cracks in the frame that could only be seen by taking off the side plate. Isn't this an excessive pressure problem? I liked your presentation but I would not want to take the chance of my alloy 38 special cracking and send bits of flying aluminum into my face or body. I would never take that chance just to have a hotter round for defense. Additionally I called SW tech support about shooting +P in my gun and they said the gun is not rated or tested for +P ammo.
@ecleveland15 жыл бұрын
The blued revolver has a steel frame and the silver is Aluminum alloy that is the reason for the size difference in the frame that you noted. You also made it clear that one gun was steel and the other was aluminum alloy. Overall it was a good video review.
@thomasgibbons3533 жыл бұрын
Wow. Sure glad I stopped in here, cleared up misgivings I had about my snub .38 special. Mine goes back b4 75'.
@michaelfiaschetti7723 жыл бұрын
Mr. Drake I’ve too have been going nuts over this issue. I have a model 10-8 smith & Wesson 38 special. I inquired through smith & Wesson about this and said no plus p. The reason being the plus p ammo was made with ball powder, and 38 special was made with flake powder. This probably cause down the road damage to the forcing cone. My model 10 does have 4 inch heavy barrel.like to hear your thoughts! Thank mike
@garyK.45ACP5 жыл бұрын
This is the age old conundrum. Buy a gun and they try to make it into something else...when the something else already exists and costs about the same. Why buy a fine old .38 revolver when you can buy a fine old .357? I tend to go the other way. My favorite .38 loads are 148 gr. wadcutters with 2.5 gr Titegroup or Bullseye powder. I handload them for little more than the cost of good .22 ammunition. For my J frame M642 .38 (+P rated) I carry Buffalo Bore 158 gr. +P loads, but I do not fire a steady diet of them. Will the guns blow up with +P loads? NO! Will they wear out faster? Get end shake faster? Get out of time faster? Wear out parts and springs faster? YES! Why would you do that to a classic, fine old revolver? It is just as enjoyable to shoot with light loads. .38 Special is a wonderful and accurate cartridge which is a virtue unto itself. The .357 Magnum is available and can also shoot .38 specials if that is what you want. Same with .44 Special and .45 Colt. Both are great cartridges, but neither is a .44 Magnum. I like to own all of them.
@chrisbonnett67834 жыл бұрын
Everything you've said here is right on.
@bigron260482 жыл бұрын
I have a model 36 and I love it. The only thing I don't like about it is the accuracy, I can hardly hit a thing at a distance...guess it's just for "close and dirty"
@familyfirst1st1027 ай бұрын
🗣You've explained this so beautifully...💯
@Alltracavenger8 ай бұрын
Very well done video. I have a Model 14(basically a 6" Model 10) from the late '60s that I was wondering would be safe if I had to run some +P through it. I'd love to have a Model 36 to bring out every now and then. That said, while I typically keep autoloaders on hand for defensive use if I need to carry a snub-nosed revolver I'm going to reach for my Ruger SP101 and step up to .357 Magnum. I'm able to handle the recoil.
@robertduncan27424 жыл бұрын
A very great posting and shooting films. A lot learned from this. Thanks
@Jleitte4 жыл бұрын
Syttende Mai (May 17th). Thanks for the video. I have an S&W Model 36 currently on my hip. I also currently have +P loads in my pistol.
@NoGoBu3 жыл бұрын
Great vid, very imformitive older S&W 's just have class❤🔫😎
@cheryltysver4819 Жыл бұрын
A good review on the differences between standard and +P rated revolvers. I will listen again with regard to the burn-rate/expansion ratio aspects. Years ago, when Super Vel 1st came out, it was a paradigm shift change in the performance of handgun ammunition. Now that it's being manufactured again I am anxious to try it out to see how it compares to the 1970's loadings in .38 Special and .44 Magnum! When looking at current day +P comparables...I have just tested (but not chronographed yet) the Underwood 158gr.hardcast +P semi-wadcutter in a light weight S&W snub-nosed revolver that is +P rated and can tell you that the experience was memorable! My first thought was how did I get a .357 Magnum round to fit in a .38 Special cylinder! Actually, that was my 2nd thought...my first thought was 'what the hell just happened'? The target was a piece of 4 x 6 pressure treated pine and the projectile sailed right through it disappeared into the ground. The second shot (a few minutes later) was shot into the side of the block at an angle to increase the travel path into the block and the bullet almost exited in spite of that! The penetration depth was ~ 7+ inches. I would feel much better shooting that round out of an SP101 Ruger or 357 Magnum revolver...if I was shooting it on a regular basis. I would be interested to hear any feedback you all have regarding the new Super Vel or the Underwood+P 158gr. Hardcast loadings... Thanks for your time and thoughts on this in advance.
@denisdegamon82244 жыл бұрын
I only take exception to one thing that you said, that is comparing like bullet weights and similar velocities as being the same. That is not necessarily true. You have use pressures in those rounds, not just weight and velocity. The powders used, have a major impact on pressures as some have slower or faster burn rates which effect pressures.
@sgtjarhead992 жыл бұрын
Except for Underwood and Buffalo Bore, I think most .38 +P brands these days are very watered down. They seem more reliant on bullet design than pure power. Except for the fore mentioned brands, i have no concerns at all shooting modern +Ps in any steel frame .38spl revolver.
@joycewilliams51382 жыл бұрын
Key words (steel framed ) .
@kevinmcfee99865 жыл бұрын
It's okay as long as you don't run 1 or 2 hundred rounds at a time in your handgun. Make sure you retighten the screws afterwards.
@ratagris214 жыл бұрын
Good video and thank you for clarification on the use of ammo to the point and with references.
@lestergillis81712 жыл бұрын
The booklets for both of my S&Ws 60-4s both claim that they can use +p ammo. I don't think I ever have. But I suspose I could,if need be.🤔
@cleondubois12705 жыл бұрын
There was an ammo company called "Super Vel" in the 1970s. Bought a box and tried a couple in my Colt Trooper Mk.3 and S&W Model 19 (2,5 bbl.). Had to use a cleaning rod and hammer to knock the spent shell casings out of the cylinders of both. I was not the only one and that company went out of business very quickly.....Never heard of that happening in today's world of +Ps etc.
@bronzedragon182 жыл бұрын
You need to practice with your carry ammo,at least a few cylinders each month so you know what your gun will do if a confrontation occurs.
@mikey38004 жыл бұрын
out of a snubby even some plus p loads don't expand. Fed used to make a soft lead nylon coated 125 gr called nyclad in std pressure. Little short in penetration but expanded well, however some have given up the hope of expansion and use wadcutters which wont expand but will penetrate well.
@gen701003 жыл бұрын
EXELLENT lecture Sir, 👌 Very nice guns too!!!
@hbarajas98783 жыл бұрын
I have a snub nose.357 mag but I only shoot both practice and carry .38+p ammo so I ALWAYS have “peace of mind” as to the robustness and strength of my firearm. I recommend doing the same trick.
@josh6564 жыл бұрын
My 1967 Diamondback seems pretty solid, if it’s down to that’s my go-to gun, I’ve got bigger problems.
@happydog4929 Жыл бұрын
I have a M36 made in the early 60's, I like it for an EDC but the hammer spur is not good for pocket carry. I can't bring myself to bob the hammer, I need to get a 642. Thanks for the video.
@joelmorris603 жыл бұрын
Common sense is always welcome here. Love your channel.
@craigbenz48356 жыл бұрын
357 Magnum and 38 Special +P firearms are so commonly available that I can't find a reason to shoot +P in my revolvers that aren't rated for it.
@drdrake636 жыл бұрын
Craig Benz As a matter of going to the range and practice or plinking I don’t recommend it. But if I’m going to carry this fire arm as I sometimes do it’s going to have plus P Ammo in it there’s no reason not to.
@ek54195 жыл бұрын
The point is they are rated for it. Just because +p isn't stamped on the barrel does not mean it is not rated for p. Back in the day they shot hotter loads than +p today.
@theinfidel63012 жыл бұрын
I highly enjoyed your video, your logic makes sense to me.
@gibsondrummer4 жыл бұрын
I shoot +p ammunition out of my model 10 without any issues I don’t make it a regular thing , its what load it with when its being carried for self defense or loaded and set in the night stand for home defense
@garryjones78932 жыл бұрын
Got me some ejuhmuhkayshn with this outstanding video. Ta muchly from a 38+P owning Aussie.
@packletackle90474 жыл бұрын
Wish I found this sooner I got a model 36 from the early 70s and this would of saved me alot of time and frustration
@RichardThomas-lu6ej3 ай бұрын
Great informative video. Thanks for sharing.
@h.r.puffnstuff87052 жыл бұрын
Didn’t Elmer Kieth hot load 38 special in non + P S&W revolvers back in the early 1930s inventing the 357 magnum?
@mbw652 жыл бұрын
I just read an article where federal agents that carried s&w m36's used the +p+ treasury load in them. Smith took the warranty off their firearms. But no weapons blew up. Maybe wore out faster.
@jamiemartin17935 жыл бұрын
I shoot +P in my Taurus 856 UL. Haven't had any complaints.
@adorableraccoons63624 жыл бұрын
That the aluminum frame one?
@kyles2804 жыл бұрын
Jessa Case I believe so. I have the 856 but not the UL.
@fritzvold99682 жыл бұрын
dead men utter no complaints?
@SverreMyrsethWang5 жыл бұрын
Great video with some god points. Greatings from Norway.. :-)
@sprofitt7775 жыл бұрын
I have an older Smith and wesson model 12, made of aluminum alloy. I brought it used so I had to look up that you should never use +p ammo in it. I put some .38 special ammo in it with 158 grain , it did not blow up my gun , but when I tried to eject my rounds after firing. 3 rounds went out with no problem , but the other expanded in the cylinder. I had a hard time taking them out. But it did not damage the workability of my gun, thank God. But I now use nothing higher then 130 grain.
@lapjohn71724 жыл бұрын
Key I think to the older model"s is that they are Steel.
@6h4714 жыл бұрын
The recoil difference between +P and ordinary .38 special isn't enough to matter, so I see no point in training with expensive + P ammo.
@jarin12ga3 жыл бұрын
I love the S&W 36. I love how it looks too!
@xodarap37 Жыл бұрын
I recently bought a Colt Police Positive chambered in calibre .38 special, with a 6 inch barrel, that, according to the serial number was manufactured in 1921... by my limited experience, but keen eye, it appears to have never been fired... it is a beautiful gun, but I carry it for self defense... I have never fired the gun myself (yet), and have a box of Winchester +P, that I would only use as SD ammo... the rest I have is standard pressure rated GECO hollow points, and some semi-wad cutters for range practice... it is a beautiful gun, and I would hate ruining it... am I safe, for SD purposes at least? I actually doubt I will ever need to use it for SD, but I live in a somewhat sketchy part of town, and carry it now, religiously... I am kinda proud to be in possession of a 102 year old virgin... I want her to be my best friend, if ya know what I mean....
@timhallas42759 ай бұрын
I have one of the Taurus "Ultra-Lite" 38 special snub-nose revolvers. It's an aluminum alloy frame with stainless steel barrel and cylinder. I thought about running plus P hollow-point rounds for edc, because the standard pressure rounds are not expanding at all. Well, I didn't want to have this thing break on me at a critical self defense moment, so I tested it with some .357 magnum loads. It didn't break.
@denisdegamon82243 ай бұрын
That Taurus 38 spl will or should not chamber a .357 magnum shell. The maximum SAMMI test pressures for a 38 spl is around 18,500 psi while the +P 38 spl is around 21,000 psi. Now that .357 magnum pressures are 35,500 - 36,000 psi and the shell length is almost 1/8" longer than a 38 spl shell. If your 38 spl revolver will chamber a .357 magnum, get it checked and do not use magnum ammo in it less you blow your gun up.
@timhallas42753 ай бұрын
@@denisdegamon8224 I already knew all of this but I proved it wrong. I had to shave down the .357 bullet and the top of the case to fit it in my Taurus. I fired several rounds and it did not break. I now carry it with 4 .38 sp hollow-points and one .357. I figure as long as it ends the bad guy, I don't care if it breaks. It's a $200 gun.
@TheOtherFagola3 жыл бұрын
On a side note I feel that all revolvers should have a glossy finish. Great presentation and beautiful 36 too.
@donaldacevedo7574 Жыл бұрын
Why would a manufacturer say that you can but don't recommend firing +P continuosly ?
@brucebarton3277 Жыл бұрын
Very informative; thank you.
@OldManMontgomeryАй бұрын
One notes the 'ridge' on the since 1980 revolvers combine that ridge with the 'hilary hole'. I personally find it curious. One also notes Smith & Wesson also published a statement that 'model numbered' revolvers (all S&W revolvers since 1957 or so) are safe with +p loads. This was announced prior to the latest sale, so I cannot be sure.
@spartanj2957 Жыл бұрын
If your including a S&W aluminum J frame thats decades old ,or a old Colt Agent Aluminum ,you better reconsider ,I've seen both loose the top strap from Plus P loads.
@brianblackburn-author75312 жыл бұрын
Sir, do you believe in trigger jobs, or do you think they effect reliability?
@timsharkey19935 жыл бұрын
Didn’t S&W issue a statement saying any .38 k frame from the model number era would handle +P ammo with no problem?
@randallthornburg84484 жыл бұрын
Tim Sharkey : a K frame will easily handle “+P” ammo
@Chimib4 жыл бұрын
36 is a J frame though
@randallthornburg84484 жыл бұрын
He didn’t ask about a 36, he asked about a “K frame”
@Chimib4 жыл бұрын
@@randallthornburg8448 I was ansewring to him ... Older J frames can take it, which is the point of the vid... K, L, N ,X are all stouter, heavier frames
@bigfoot80.86 Жыл бұрын
Sir , I called S&W about a model 36-7 and was told that model 36-9 and newer were rated for plus P ammo.
@rebelray844 жыл бұрын
I wouldn't shot +p through an old model S&W 37 or a Colt Agent. They both have the older aluminum type frame and +ps would stretch them out in no time. Other than that, I wouldn't be the least bit reluctant to shoot +ps through any older guns.