Jyggalag Was Wrong About EVERYTHING - The True Mad God - Elder Scrolls Lore

[@spider-spectre]

He is doomed to be the weight which balances the scale. When the world is peaceful, he is destructive. When the world is in chaos, he brings order. When the world is crazy, he is stability. When the world is sane, he is madness. He is happy when you are sad, sad when you are happy, angry when you are calm, and calm when you angry. Forgetful when you are memorable, well-remembered when you have forgotten. You know he knows you know nothing, and neither does he. Death breeds life and life breeds more death.

[@vexile1239]

My head hurts

[@TaCo0oCaT]

So technically Jyggalag would be the Prince of Opposites? King of Contrarians, Tzar of Technicality, Daimyo of Dispute

[@consumerjtc5835]

It would have been nice if he was to represent those things, he doesn't. He is more akin to stasis, stagnancy and the cruel indifference of the universe. There is a reason why Sheo calls him boring.

[@Practitioner_of_Diogenes]

That sentence, "you know he knows you know nothing, and neither does he" is something else. It feels like actual poetry.

[@welshlout3400]

⁠​⁠@@consumerjtc5835It’s representative of the dual-headed god, I assume.

[@FourScore460]

I always found it weird that Jyggalag was a padomaic god (chaos) instead of Anuic one(order) considering that Jyggalag attempted to snuff out the chaos that is Oblivion. Then it hit me, the urge to cover everything under one binding radiant light is in an of itself is madness. That obsessive compulsion to control everything around you because it is your DESIRE will drive you insane just in the pursuit of such an unattainable goal.

[@FourScore460]

After watching the video in full I just basically summarized Drew's whole video

[@thalmoragent9344]

​@FourScore460 Which is why the other Et'Ada who had spheres of Order, closer to Anu than Padomay, opted to remain in their Realm of Aetherius. Auriel of course being the prime example. Jyggalag, I imagine, would've been better off sticking with Auriel in Aetherius. If Jyggalag could remain in Aetherius, and stick to a pocket of Order, he'd be much happier.

[@malikmoore5723]

Order from chaos

[@nbmoleminer5051]

​@@thalmoragent9344Shame he can't break off and do that.

[@thalmoragent9344]

@nbmoleminer5051 Who knows, maybe if Jyggalag spoke to an Aedra, he could convince to have an audience with Auriel or something, potentially be allowed to help reinforce the Aedric Et'Ada, given how some have already fallen, like Y'ffre and Trinimac I dunno, may be a stretch. But since he's so much more like Anu, surely he could, like, "phase" into Aetherius or something, I dunno 😅

[@theaconite1400]

I love the passion that go into these and framing it as if you are a scholar living in the world of the Elder Scrolls makes it really enjoyable to listen to. Thanks for all the effort that goes into these!

[@booglez7223]

What? You're telling me he isn't?

[@statiic_hydra8678]

Framing?

[@MarkWomack11]

It works so well with Drew’s writing style.

[@Shin_Akumi]

Stop gaslighting drewmora....

[@arg_9584]

Right? It adds such an amazing atmosphere to the videos.

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

Knowing that a thing is going to happen doesnt mean that you can prevent that thing from happening, thats how Jyggalag could have known that his defeat was coming and still was defeated. If you're chained to a wall and a car is speeding towards you, then you know you're gunna get hit by the car but theres still nothing you can do to stop it. Knowlege does not equal power in all instances.

[@spider-spectre]

Jyggalag didnt die, I believe he was separated from the mantle of this realm which was Sheogorath, regardless of how strict Jyg was he could never hold it forever, thus giving it up to someone else is the easiest way to detach from the curse of the realm. His spirits floats through oblivion/the void and as he was strong enough to literally conquer oblivion realms means he can easily pull a Meridia and just carve out a new home of true order with no curse.

[@Noblesix84]

I agree with you. I believe they are now two Daedra, and the reason we haven't heard about him in Skyrim is because people still don't know he exists. Either he doesn't need mortals to carry out his current plans, or he doesn't want them. We know about all the other princes because they have mortals to act as tools of their will, as well as physical places/objects to help us reach out to them. If no one knows Jyg exists, even now that he has his own form, then mortals have no way of knowing what he's up to or have any way to reach him.

[@spider-spectre]

@@Noblesix84 Another side note, I have a strong theory that the Thalmor worship Jyggalag.

[@jacobfreeman5444]

I would say he is much weaker now, which is why he has been silent. He is cultivating his power. No doubt his power was tied up in the Shivering Isles. Giving them up to be free of the curse means he is not the being he was before

[@NEVERescapingLOVE]

@@spider-spectre i am interested in said theory

[@YugiDmega]

This is literally how I saw it the first time I did the DLC and I am stupid happy someone else agrees.

[@bassemfed8654]

The amount of happiness i feel when Drew makes a new video is beyond oblivion and nirn .

[@Toni-lo9ms]

Three points. First, excellent video as always. RASPBERRY, Sheogorath's face at the portal is three faces diverging with two branching off from the central face. Third: Based on that and everything in the video I suspect you're right and I mean canonically right. Jygallag went mad at some point or was born mad during the creation events and that madness was his obsession with recreating perfect order. His eventual realization of inevitable failure further fractured his consciousness creating the bipolar Sheogorath persona. Uncle Sheo has a paranoid delusion that Jygallag will return and destroy the realm, which being the delusion of a daedric god in his own realm becomes reality. That sets up the cycle. It makes perfect sense, which considering the topic worries me.

[@Im-Not-a-Dog]

Great Drew of Atmora, Unbound Seeker of Knowledge, He Who Swims the Waters of Oblivion, He Who Soars the Skies of Nirn, and He Who Basks in the Light of Aetherius, I beseech the! Please, bless us, your faithful and humble students, with the continuation of your study of Lord Vivek's 36 Lessons. It has been long since we have wrung the waters of wisdom from those sacrosanct pages of amarathine knowlege.

[@highlandoutsider]

Most well written comment I've seen in a long time 🔥 kudos to you 👏👏

[@christophermills7693]

in absolute Order there is chaos in the unbalance and in too absolute chaos there is order in the unbalance...

[@weirdreportt]

Too early for a Drewmora video! Out of all Deadric Prince, i think the Mad God has a very interesting concept. Jyggalag will never be free, after all, people who are afflicted with madness deny that they are mad. They may be split in two, but they will and always be the same. Two sides of a same coin.

[@tomfoolery5844]

The atmosphere you create in these videos is unmatched.

[@TiberiusTen]

the writing on this episode is some of your best yet - thank you for working so hard to produce these videos for us!

[@fearlessretaliator4997]

I Just noticed, this video was the preamble of your recently released Sheogorath video. You are trully great Drew of Atmora.

[@MoriShep]

The kights of order still remind me a great deal of Meridias "perfected ones"

[@FAVNVS113]

I said this before on one of your first videos but i just have to say it again, your videos are truly one of a kind. Yours has to be my favorite narration of any elder scrolls content i have ever watched. The vocabulary, the voice, the deadrologist character etc etc. Its all very unique and amazing. Thank you for your work!

[@crandleberrysadie]

Ah. The perfect weekend surprise. TY Drew 💖🙏

[@mkultravictlm]

I absolutely love your videos and the passion you put into researching and telling these stories. you're hands down my favorite TES lore channel Drew, keep it up man.

[@Justin-v9r]

Can't say that I agree with the theory, but it's intriguing.

[@darthmadara7984]

That Jygalahg fellow sounds like that Dragon in the soulcain! Tight family

[@ericcloud1023]

As always Drew, you have managed to ruin any chance I had of sleeping 😂 how can you expect people to fall asleep listening when you add a gloriously edited video. Lol much love man, keep on being the Pythagoras of Tamriel! You're the heart of lorkan because you just blew me away lol

[@gerbenvanegmond4007]

Your stories never cease to amaze and amuse, Drew(mora) the Daedrologist. Epic storytelling as always

[@MLPDethDealr32]

Actually, if youve played the Skyrim mod VIGILANT, Jyggalag is currently taking over Coldharbour. And Molag bal has plans to escape and take over AETHERIUS.

[@zeehero7280]

Being obsessed with order can be a kind of madness in itself.

[@thoughtbomb6490]

I loved the description of perfect order, it really made me think of the universe before the big bang.

[@carolynr570]

Today was stressful but it’s always nice to see a new Drewmora video 🙏🏾

[@tariq6429]

Such great writing and analysis, these videos never disappoint !

[@johnsmiley4215]

I must say, it's interesting noticing the similarities between Jyggalag and the Dwemer. Perfect order, the angular automatons, even down the unknowable, probably horrific fate.

[@bdlarsen1225]

I would like to see, after vids for each Daedric Prince are made, the videos compiled into one.

[@NikGushue]

I think and interesting perspective is Limbo from d&D 5e, which is a plane of pure Chaos, but has portions of it that are pure order because in order for chaos to be truly chaotic it must have an element of order to make it truly dynamic.

[@iKevski]

Your more in character and dare I say 'unreliable narrator' like videos are a great step up from the videos you made while in different company. Every time a new one is uploaded it goes on my watch later list. I may not watch it immediately, but by oblivion you can be sure I will grab a glass of mead and sit back in a chair to enjoy these.

[@thefoodisalive]

Silver and Certainty! Great writing yet again, ty Drew

[@Tera_B_Twilight]

I've just recently discovered your channel. I like the way you write from the perspective of a single character. It really brings the story to life. You have a great voice for storytelling too. I don't know how you got the video tableaus you use to visualize your narration, but their use is also very impressive. Thank you for all the work you put into these.

[@michielwitteveen6676]

Jyggalag seems like a really cool god i wish he had a quest in skyrim like the other deadric princes

[@user-pc5qj2ix2c]

Always a good day when drewmora drops a new video.

[@MikefromTexas1]

Fucking brilliant. "... not since my trip to Apocrypha."😂 Have you considered a vid about the possibility of Mephala being the Night Mother/Sithis?

[@Jackal-xc9sw]

As always immaculate job mate

[@diekrahe.]

I fundamentally disagree, Your whole argument hinges on the fact that Jyggalag didn't appear in Skyrim. An entity as powerful as a Prince would need time to coalesce so wouldn't reappear in just 200 years. A well thought out and beautifully edited video though, I love your work.

[@Dwemerologist]

Ayyyyy. Now I have something to listen to while I play ESO.

[@coroarc8423]

Very cool theory! I prefer the Jyggalag is op and the orher daedra teamed up on hin because that would be so badass but I love your videos

[@feuerzange4055]

Imagine Jyggalag would Return strong enough to Form a new realm of perfect Order but this time He doesnt want to conquer everything so the deadric princes doesnt Curse him again

[@nbmoleminer5051]

It's weird there isn't any Nirn based Jyggalag cults or artifacts.

[@W4iteFlame]

Likely they were lost when he changed

[@justinmassey4815]

A year late. And I'm only at 11:33 but doesn't that basically mean whenever he returned to his true form. All he has to do is avoid the shivering isles and you can do whatever he wants.

[@marcusblackwell2372]

If there was an Elder Scrolls movie in the 2000's, Christopher Lee would've been perfect as Sheogorath/Jyggalag

[@herrmannnachnahme9456]

Tim Curry or Patrick Stewart would've been my choice.

[@marcusblackwell2372]

​@@herrmannnachnahme9456How come?

[@steelshepherd6843]

In single linearity, numerical quantitation increases by one of whatever unit, 1+1=2. In two dimensions, 2^2=4, 3^2=9, 4^2=16 In three dimension, it is even more, 2^3=8, 3^3=27, 4^3=64 Adding time to even a logical consistent realm, 2^4=16, 3^4=81, 4^4=256. Quantitatively, madness is inevitable.

[@DrakeGarcia-qz5qg]

Your intros are amazing

[@st.anselmsfire3547]

I suspect that they sort of gave the game up in their own mythology. Who was Arden Sul? The last champion to mantle Sheogorath. He's probably the guy you meet.

[@mooloomolomolo7818]

Would love to see a video about the sload and thras

[@enxman7697]

I'm really curious about a deep dive on Mephala, when will it come

[@reavercity568]

Perfction can never be wrong

[@KiraSieni]

What if hes Lorkhan. Split into 2 as a result of his creation of chaos from order. Knowing every possibility because he himself created it. The gods thinking that they had destroyed him, yet he had destroyed himself.

[@roninwilson2406]

What if Sheo and Jyg separating are just the process of Lorkhan rebuilding the lost parts of his whole…? Building a pantheon of himself in order to maintain the duality of the Mundus itself. Just as he’s embedded aspects of himself in Akatosh in order to do the same, but in that case as a way to weaken his enemies and keep their actions at bay. Biding his “time” till he can amass enough power. throughout all the events so far, enough have a direct link to Lorkhan…Sheo, Talos, the Dragonborn…even Akatosh… Even those who could be his Deadric allies, like Boethiah and Azura, all work towards the same schemes. What if they keep the golden hue of Trinimac to one day empower Lork…?

[@elliotwhite32]

I love you Drew

[@achristiananarchist2509]

Jyggalag isn't real. He's just a manifestation of Sheogorath's madness. That's why Dyus' omniscience sucks so hard. He isn't really omniscient, just mad. That's why none of the other daedra are concerned about his escape. He didn't escape from anyone's perspective but Sheogorath's. That's why no one knows jack about Jyggalag. The only thing natives of mundus have ever heard about him is the ravings of the lunatics that flood out of the strange door when it appears every era or so. If this really was the only time Jyggalag had ever taken over, no one on Tamriel would even know his name, and if he had agency when he took over in the past then he would interact, somehow, with Tamriel and the other daedra, for better or worse. But Jyggalag has no existence outside Sheogorath's realm because he's just a split personality of the mad god. Sheogorath, as he puts it, continually "sacrifices himself to himself", so that the world has been through several Sheororaths since it's founding, and, given enough time, the Hero of Kvatch will repeat the cycle, become Jyggalag again, and be deposed and mantled by the next mad god. Edit: Holy crap, that was actually the thesis of the video. I've been pushing this theory for years but I've never seen it actually covered by anyone and the response from the community tends to be...less than open minded. Awesome to see that someone with a voice in the community agrees! And the idea that the original mad god is Jyggalag, and that Sheo is the defense mechanism, is a super interesting addition to it.

[@OrgusDin]

I love this theory.

[@ciaranbrk]

I would say jygalag is rebuilding his forces quietly to take revenge on the other deadra lords. Or could he behind the order imposed by the dominion? Who knows what the deadra lord of order is up to.

[@twinphalanx4465]

Wait wait so his library contains every action of each daedra that would include himself and the mad god. Or it wouldn't include one of them which wouldn't make sense because the library is complete. So of course he would have to read them eventually coming to either his section or the mad gods section and read that they are one in the same indefinitely and that the mantling doesn't work and that's what breaks him and turns him back into the mad god. And yet eventually he's still tries again. Makes the library makes the world makes perfect order and find the one thing and unravels it all

[@SoulOfJustice1994]

That would make a lot of sense... Sheogorath being a naturally occuring Daedric equivilant of DID. It was bound to happen. But it means the events of the Shivering Isles were completely pointless... And the Hero of Kvatch simply went mad and became another voice in Jyggalag's head.

[@SyrWhitestrake]

The other princes had nothing to do with sheogorath. It was because of the sundering of Shor.

[@popguy2815]

Guessing Jigs least favorite movie is Brazil.

[@coleozaeta6344]

Ah, yes, you! Drew! The one I drew on the walls, and then decided to draw to me. You, you, you, Scooby-Doo, you’re the one to complete my task! Or not, if I change my mind. Oh, yes, you will become my Champion and stop the Greymarch! If you don’t, before I’m changed over, I’ll be sure to pluck out your eyes! HAHAHAHAHA! And, turn s out, I like our little talks. if you don’t come visit me soon enough, I’ll pluck out your eyes, ahaha! Good game, lad!

[@sagacious03]

Interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading! Personally, I pity Jyggalag. He only sought order, & to logically determine things. But whether by conspiracy or insanity, he lost his self.

[@dzen46]

I still like fudge muppet, but your commentary and voice is way better. You need more subs!

[@Nerad137]

Foundation and empire...

[@operater404]

I'll be watching 👀

[@Imperialludo]

Get it drew

[@ArtemisFowl-e4t]

Fudge Muppet is that you?

[@kingtoad2234]

He literally takes pride in being the Madgod tf you mean you wouldn’t say it in his presence

[@cedrickarter5680]

I really love your work, Daedrologist Drew, and i must start by asking for forgiviness as i am not even a daedrologist myself, so my understanding of such creatures are far bellow of your own. But i must say that i don't agree much with your research on Jyggalag's topic. From my personal time exploring the Shivering Isles, i have to say that i personally think that Jyggalag wasn't mad...At least not in some parts. Yes, he certainly was insane by trying to bring his Perfect Order to the Seas of Oblivion, but i must say that on his own dialogue about his transformation to Sheogorath. You point that the thought that he wasn't actually a conqueror, and never conquered the realms of other daedra, and the daedra never ploted against him because he was an insane schizophrenic entity from the beggining. Dare me to say, but this is the part that i disagree the most. You say that the thought of ruining the life of another Prince was just too harsh for them, as both Vaermina and Peryite tried to make Hermaeus Mora to not erase Ithelia from the memories of everyone. But that's the catch Daedrologist, because not all Daedra do care that much for their fellow Princes - Mehrune's the Razor himself had destroyed another Daedric Prince, the one that ruled over the now deseased Daedric Realm, Deadlight. Meridia and Molag Bal fight against one another and certainly wouldn't care if the other were erased, as by their interactions, and even if Vaermina and Peryite were against old Herma-Mora's actions against the Prince of Paths, Mora still didn't stop and went with his plan on erasing her from existance. A failure, to be sure, but the intent and action was still there. And i have to say that i cannot prove that Jyggalag's did in fact conquer a vast part of Oblivion, but i still must bring in the thought that, given we know that there are other Princes that wouldn't care to go against another daedric prince if said prince threatened themselves, then you must think about it. Jyggalag is certainly a Anti-Daedra spirit, (Ironic for a Daedra himself, altho he's not unique on that regard, as father Malacath is another one, but we all know of his story, so let's focus on the current topic) as his Sphere is about Order, Perfect Order, where nothing changes and stays in a perfect shape, something that's very anti-Oblivion by itself, even more so when you consider other princes like Hermaeus Mora and Mehrune's Dagon. Dagon's Sphere is about Ambition, Change, Destruction, and to have Change, one must not always stay perfect to one state, so we already have a big enemy to the Grey Prince. And we also have the oddly clash of interests of Jyggalag and Hermaeus Mora, as Jyggalag was said to have a Library containing a vast knowledge of the past, present and future, predicting everything that would happen. But the Woodland Man also has a lot of this on his sphere, he is the Prince of Forbidden Knowledge, and has been shown to possess the knowledge of future, past and present occurences, as well as Mora's motives to erase Ithelia from existance was that she, according to the Gardener of Men, had the power to shape Destiny. And given the Grey Prince also had the ability to shape destiny, as he could see the predictions of the future and try to alter them, i think it's feasable that Hermaeus Mora would want to take action against this Prince, as not only he is a threat to Oblivion with his Perfect Order, but also a threat to reality with his Library as he could try to alter Destiny with his knowledge of the future So when you have all this, i honestly do think that Jyggalag was right and he didn't start as a shizophrenic God of Madness, he was cursed to become this by other princes on the likes of Hermaeus Mora and Mehrune's Dagon. I won't argue that he's sane, as this man is certainly insane on other parts, like trying to bring order to a Chaos realm, but i personally think that he wasn't always THAT insane, but he was cursed with becoming even more insane by other, fearful and jealous princes. After all this, Daedrologist, i wanted to see you also cover some other sides of Jyggalag, because on my personal studies, he seems like a very interesting individual if you look a bit into his vaguiness. Independently if he's completly insane or not, his overall actions and motives are very similar to those of a knight. He tried to conquer oblivion, bringing his perfect Order and believing it as the right cause, independently if it was a fools errand, he himself looks like one of those knights of High Rock, with his own claymore (which i have to say, it looks gorgeous. My mother would've loved to learn about this sword back on my stronghold), and his own lesser Daedra are literally called ''Knights of Order''. Also, something that i think is very interesting is that he seems like a daedra that is more found of Mortals, rather than other Daedra, as his most important servants, like the chamberlain Dyus and the Priests of Order are all mortals. And contrary to common belief, they all actually act by themselves, with their own thinking and actions. Most would believe that Jyggalag is a Prince that's against free thinking, but when you look at his mortal servants, they all still serve as mortals, they aren't as mundane and mindless as the Knights of Order. And when you pair all that, you also have the fact that the Knights of Order are the only known Lesser Daedra that serve him, while everything else being pointed as being Mortals, with Dyus, the man charged with keeping his so important library, being a mortal. Pardon my wits, but wouldn't a Daedra like a Dremora be better to have as a Chamberlain? as They are inherently immortal so are more used to the thought of keeping infinite knowledge of possible events and events that happened, either way, one of his Main Men is a Imperial, which is telling. And talking about his library, just as a Knight isn't a pure warmachine, and has other Duties that are more simple and not combat related, Jyggalag also had his library that was so vast and seemed to be held very highly for him. I'm probably looking too much into this, naturally. I still find all this Knightly Orders of Bretons to be hard to understand as it's a lot of bureucratic stuff, even if their actions are honorable and their prowess respectable, but to me, a mere Orc student, this all seems to point that Jyggalag is one of, if not the only, daedric prince of Knights, with his overall focus being on a Knightly endeavor, i wonder if he had any Vows or Oaths Either way, i need to go out and continue my journey. I don't know if you're going to (or even bother giving light to a initiate) read my thoughts on your work, Daedrologist, but if you're reading and managed to make all the way down here,.Thanks for your work, it's been a very good and entertaining part to me after coming back to this universe after being a bit too much in the Wastelands of Fallout, so if you want to talk a bit more on Jyggalag, my elvish ears are open. Oh, and may Malacath protect you from the Daedra's calling.

[@steelshepherd6843]

"Jyg mad" lol

[@maxwheatley4497]

Why dont you make videos with Michael and Scott anymore??

[@richardrenten1]

Let's go.

[@Lymphnoid1]

You should play oblivion. This is all answered there.

[@HeatherQuinn-Psykhae]

One of these days we're gonna find out Drew was isekai'd and it's not even gonna be surprising

[@jefthereaper]

I always felt that Jyggalag and Sheogorath were one from the start. Their scenario on how they got cursed by the other Daedra just being a fiction conjured by their madness. Everything in the Shivering Isles has a tone of duality to it. So it would stand to reason that the Daedric Prince who spawns this entire realm is also a being of duality. Two sides of the same madness coin.

[@Ozcogger]

Yes but the duality is Madness and Depression. Not Chaos and Order.

[@Tokahontes]

​@@OzcoggerIts Mania not Maddness. Mania is the opposite of depression , Is what causes People with bipolar disorder problems the Massive shifts between the highs of Delusional Euphoria and the lows of Deep Depressions

[@drcalliber732]

Tbh it’s just OCD vs ADHD.

[@Shin_Akumi]

​@@Tokahontesmania is madness. Why are u even arguing the difference. U know exactly what he meant ya phaggot

[@samsoncooper1]

No, adhd is closer to OCD than depression

[@L_ryan13]

Jyggalag is highly underrated I hope we see something about him in es6

[@johnevergreen8019]

I would love this

[@IINareik]

Its unlikely since the sheogorath in Skyrim is the player character from oblivion who has no connection to him, he died same with the old Sheo when the player character took the mantle

[@Deadbeatcow]

​@@IINareikprinces do not die

[@god4143]

@@IINareikprinces don’t die. They get mantled. Someone else takes their spot but it all remains the same.

[@ericmonaco4509]

JYGGACHAD WILL RETURN

[@Kclassics1]

Your hard work is amazing not only do you wow us all every video but you keep going to delve into oblivion and other realms just for us all. ❤

[@Xolcm]

Something to consider about the end of the Greymarch is that for Jyggalag, it was actually a pyrrhic victory. Yes, the curse is now broken and he can remain as Jyggalag, however, he is now completely cut off from his own realm, which for a Daedric Prince, contains most of their power. The reason the other Princes first cursed Jyggalag is because they were fearful of his power, and if Jyggalag was able to somehow return to his former strength, the other Princes could simply curse him again. However, Jyggalag's realm and power now solely belong to Sheogorath, and while Sheogorath has defeated all of the other Daedric Princes in The Account of Madness series, it's not done in a way where he is an actual threat so they they leave him alone. It's been stated that the reason Jyggalag hasn't been active in Nirn is because Nirn is already ordered, so he spends his time trying to order the more chaotic realm of Oblivion. However, since he has lost most of his power, he likely doesn't have the power to threaten the other Princes anymore.

[@vividdaydream1516]

26:43 "Therin, [Sheogorath] is 'born' when Lorkhan's divine spark is removed." So, that would mean Sheo is technically Lorkhan... or at least, the husk that's left of Lorkhan after the other gods ripped him to shreds. That lines up neatly with Jygg's story about being cursed by the other Princes, if you consider the possibility that Lorkhan's divine spark also contained his sanity. Jygg specifying that it was _Daedric Princes_ who cursed him doesn't disprove this theory. _Every_ god would've been a Daedric Prince prior to the creation of mundus, because afterwards Daedric Princes are defined as "the gods who didn't contribute to Lorkahn's group project."

[@stingerjohnny9951]

I just realized that the two faces on the gateway, in addition to signifying Mania and Dementia, could be Jyggalag and Sheogorath. Jyg is the frown, Uncle Sheo is the smirk, and the center is the chaos between them.

[@DragonsValkyrie]

Jyggalag is always a character I wanted to know more about him and Lord Sheogorath have a very interesting relationship I hope we get more info on Jyggalag one day, hope you have a great day Drew

[@nbmoleminer5051]

Same why don't we ever come across any cults or artifacts of his?

[@Tryingtogetradical]

Love this. The part about the need for order leading to madness reminds me of a loved one who has diagnosed OCD and she cannot rest until things are the way she wants them, to the point where she gets sick from cleaning. That’s a form of madness it feels

[@TheMichaellathrop]

I also always got a sort of OCD/schizophrenic bi-polar feel from the Shaogorath Jyggalag dynamic.

[@highlandoutsider]

Same, on the spectrum and the craving of order vs self destructive madness cuts pretty deep

[@chadharger9323]

If anything the Hero of Kvatch got both Sheo and Jygg to calm down. . .A LOT. This is clear in Skyrim in which Jygg isn't up to some extreme plan. Sheo has the most notable change. It never rains flaming animals and he doesn't turn mortal body parts into musical instruments.

[@jamespliskins2785]

I mean he was on vacation though.

[@Abyssal86]

Always thought it was odd that Sotha Sil also came to a similar deterministic conclusion.

[@Noblesix84]

I would argue, at least against the point of Jyg not being heard from, is that he wasn't really known by mortals as far as we can tell in the more modern games. You could put this up to Jyg just not reaching out to mortals. All the Daedra that we interact with have some physical place, person, or object that we must interact with first. If there's nothing for Jyg, it could just mean that he's busy setting up his new Realm and putting plans in place. Time is relative in Oblivion, but even if it weren't 200 years probably isnt much to a Daedric Prince.

[@shadowbanned1999]

My theory is he isn't interested in nirn. He has beef with other Daedra so he could just be scheming to attack their realms like they attack nirn.

[@Noblesix84]

@@shadowbanned1999 That's a fair point too. Oblivion is far more chaotic than Mundus, and he probably wants payback, so I can see why he wouldn't want to bother with mortals much

[@Flesh_Wizard]

I'd imagine his realm to look very fractal in nature. Like his plane of Oblivion would look like the Mandelbrot Set or something

[@nonamegiven202]

honestly I get why people love the irony of "Jyggalag was mad actually" but the fact that it's built on a single misconception, that daedra are mentally "human", does kill it for me. Like if you argue that then aren't ALL the princes insane; "Look at Mehrunes Dagon, the prince of madness, see his uncontrollable urge for destruction.", "Look at Molag Bal, the prince of Madness, see his insufferable control complex and complete sociopathy", "Look at Sanguine, the prince of madness, see he's collection of all addiction and complete lack of impulse control", and so on.

[@Ozcogger]

Your lack of understanding of them and their goals doesn't make them Mad.

[@nonamegiven202]

@@Ozcogger oh i understand the princes, I'm just saying any HUMAN doing what say Bal is doing would be consider a insane monster so we shouldn't just apply human values to one case because it makes for a good concept.

[@ClockworkGearhead]

Jyggalag goes mad _not because he's bound_ to the cycle of madness, but because he is _free of order._ It's too often depicted that order and individuality are opposing forces, and at no point did Jyggalag lose his, so he is _free_ order, even though he spurns madness. I think, after he left the Shivering Isles, he didn't go mad again, but he just learned to be a little quieter and be a bit more of an individual. He changed his perspective, not unlike how Sheogorath encouraged the player to do the entire time they were in his plane.

[@codybaker6621]

In one of the in-game books, it talks about how the aedra n daedra were formed from the spilled blood of Anu & Padomay during their fight, maybe Sheogorath/Jyggalag was formed from a mixture of both n as a result is the madness of chaos and order combined into one being.

[@denisrivarola2387]

Wow I thought I was gonna have such an unspiring weekend and then... "The era ends, and the great march begins..."

[@FourScore460]

When Drew uploads everything I'm doing must hold 😤

[@jtjames79]

Same. I'm skipping The Legacy of the Dragonborn announcement for this.

[@willsword8100]

This is Why i feel that We shall encounter Jyggalag again in The Elder Scrolls VI. It's an even number after all.

[@mark5222]

What if the curse placed upon Jyggalag was the splitting of his once complete individuality? A combination of Sheogorath and Jyggalag is a very terrifying foe, the one who knows the order of how things would turn out and is unpredictable enough to manipulate it according to his will. By allowing only one of his sides to exist at the same time, he would be at least on par with the others.

[@MasayaShida]

Every single video is so well written. Excited for this one!

[@D-Lo23]

I've decided. You are my #1 favorite KZbinr. Your storytelling and narrative abilities are second to none.

[@Galimeer5]

Isn't there a theory out there that the entire Shivering Isles DLC was a prank on the Champion of Cyrodiil by Sheogorath to drive him/her insane? Trick him/her into thinking (s)he was the ruler of the Isles by stopping a made up apocalypse and defeating a daedric prince that never existed?

[@amyduncancinder]

Mr. Drew, as always, a great telling. I won't even pretend to have an understanding of Jyggalag/Sheogorath. I've been told that, had I played the Shivering Isles, it might be clearer for me, but I'm not so sure. Then again, maybe it's a good thing I don't understand it...what would that say about me if I did understand it? Hm...just a thought. Thank you, Sir. It is always nice to listen to your "tellings" as they generally give me a good deal of information I didn't have before.

[@thelostgirl101]

I love this theory even though it's sad. I don't understand how the player becomes Sheogorath plays into this. I hope to see another video soon!

[@achristiananarchist2509]

I've actually been operating under a theory somewhat like this since I first played the game when it came out. The idea that Jyggalag was just a manifestation of Sheogorath's madness just made way more sense than taking the story at face value for a bunch of reasons similar to the ones covered in this video. The big one to me was Dyus. I thought him just being mad made way more sense than he and his god were omniscient but couldn't foresee their own imprisoning. With Jyggalag's imprisoning and Dyus' predictions about you, these guys are 0 for 2 in the omniscience game so there is absolutely no reason to believe them, especially in a world where everyone is insane. The way I always interpreted the player's mantling of Sheogorath was that we were essentially witnessing an elaborate suicide. Sheogorath's goofy fishmalk madness is just a front, and he's internally torn up by the forms of madness more seen on the Dementia side of the isles. Whenever this suffering becomes too much he passes it off to someone else and offs himself by manifesting the Greymarch. Drew's expression of this theory is far more developed than mine though, and I never really considered the angle that Sheogorath was the defense mechanism and that Jyggalag went mad due to his own inability to impose order on a place like the aurbis, which actually locks a ton of stuff into place and makes a lot of things make sense in connection to other elder scrolls lore. Including these aspects makes me thing that there might be a deeper level to the whole suicide thing, where the Greymarches occur when Jyggalag has moments of clarity and tries to re-assert his agency, and that mantlings occur when he innevitably realizes that he will never achieve his ultimate goals and retreats back into his delusion, pouring himself into the mantler until that mantler, due to how the process of mantling works, goes from themselves to Sheogorath all the way back around to a tortured Jyggalag again and the cycle repeats anew.

[@sandmancase9]

I think that he gives away the hint right in the beginning and I think you tried the conclusion pretty spot-on. Lorkhan's split celestial bodies reflect the interplay between Chaos and Order on the Mundus. Perhaps Jyggl/rath is merely the manifestation of those forces acting upon the "Seas of Oblivion"

[@neoqwerty]

Here's something interesting to chew on: We know one aedra who's claimed to be the same in nature as Jyggalag and Sheogorath: Akatosh, who the Nords say becomes Alduin when a cycle is meant to end, and who returned to Akatosh, unlike every other dragon's soul we killed. Akatosh, who is merely cleaved away from Auriel into his own being by a Middle Dawn. The book Sithis informs that Anu begets Anuiel, who begets Auriel. And we know that Marukh peeled Akatosh-who-is-Alduin off from Auriel. Sithis begetting Padome, who begets the Daedra, is also in most of the accounts of creation. Maybe the other daedra mimicked onto Jyggalag whatever corruption happened to Akatosh once he was cleaved from Auriel? After all, one of the rewards for finishing the Shivering Isles is being able to command time to stop.

[@City-Swimmer]

"Sheogorath rocks back and forth like a metronome". Nice touch Drew, I see you

[@nicholasdaniel2778]

I do like the Chaos/Order dichotomy used for this video, Drew. Good job as always, also I was wondering if you could do a- possibly hour long video on Sanguine?

[@darthmadara7984]

I think he made a video about Sanguine in fudgemuppet

[@nicholasdaniel2778]

@@darthmadara7984 Yeah, I think so, but I want his story version of it

[@darthmadara7984]

@@nicholasdaniel2778 Got you! The old video called Sanguine the greatest threat of all and i was like ... NO!!! Lol

[@nicholasdaniel2778]

@@darthmadara7984 Yeah, the greatest threat to all of Tamriel's wine and tavern prices lol

[@RayAkuma]

Guys, drop everything because drewmora dropped a new Vid!

[@jaimeXDgo]

Regardless of how interesting and in depth your analysis regarding these two is, I reached a much simpler conclusion back in the day. Jyg was the god of order and logic, but other gods don't go by that ruling. That's why they feared him; his sphere of influence was growing so much that it would eventually swallow them and transform them by his own rules. So they Uno him and flipped his nature into one that could not make use of all that power. The remaining Daedra who perpetrated that low blow did effectively create madness the day they cursed Jyg into becoming Sheo. They did not wish to have their own ways and vastness of freedom be subjugated by Jyggalag's formula. So, in a way, his formula was able to predict everything that was affected by logic. Maybe, back in the day, Jyg's influence was so great that everything was slightly permeated by order and logic, and that gave the illusion of some small prescience in his codex. But after his betrayal, order is a much smaller concept, thus his formula doesn't apply anymore, or maybe not in so much detail.