Drinker's Chasers - Kevin Feige: Marvel Will NEVER End

[@mamaliamalak7825]

Marvel will never end. For some reason, that sounds like a threat to me.

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@ronniejdio9411]

Theve done such a poor job in phase 3 and 4 theve messed up so many stories that were legendary comics. Feigie has done more damage than good

[@Dragiare]

Sounds like something from a Disney villain. So yeah. That checks out.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@Dragiare 👍👍. A frightening Disney villain

[@hitandruncommentor]

I felt the same.

[@SniperKingz]

I like how the show Avatar the Last Airbender told everything that it needed to tell in only 3 seasons. Refreshing.

[@Lonovavir]

Same here, Babylon 5 for me. Only 5 seasons, anymore would've ruined the IP. Also Cobra Kai's 6th season will be the last, it's better to end on a high note than become your own parody.

[@chasehedges6775]

One of the best-animated shows ever

[@modarkthemauler]

@@Lonovavir Stargate SG1 had 10 seasons but managed to still be good by the end.

[@bencarlson4300]

Even Korra, despite not ending with a definitive conclusion, ended and is a really good addition to that universe. Edit: Damn, had no idea how pervasive the Korra hate is. It's nowhere near ATLA, but it's way better than most prequels/sequels we've seen over the years.

[@jt1559]

This is one of the strengths of most Anime/Manga as they just have one writer, and then when they've told their story, they just end. They don't get handed over to a new team to milk the cow for 80 years.

[@fattiger6957]

Bane has a massage for Kevin: "Victory has defeated you."

[@fattiger6957]

@Bill Clinton Enjoyer Bane is obviously a expert of the chiropractic arts, so maybe he was giving Kevin a massage as he gave him that message.

[@hunterzolomom9480]

@Bill Clinton Enjoyer be realistic honest , it is way more fun than entire MCU and M-SHE-U could attempt to make joke/fun....

[@Theendman42]

@@fattiger6957 Bane holding Kevin Feige above his head and saying "Victory has defeated you," then dropping him on his knee is a beautiful image to have in my head.

[@friktogurg9242]

Fuck that. Mcu was never good

[@kyriss12]

@@fattiger6957 He will realign your mind, your spirit, crack and your body

[@darthbiscuit]

Jokes release tension If everything's a joke there's no tension There's no building of emotional stakes so everything feels flat

[@MsYunaFires]

And when you have a generation raised on that, is it any wonder they're all jokey and seem to take nothing seriously?

[@lance134679]

Kevin has a good point that you can tell a very wide variety of stories and have different genres when adapting comic book characters. The problem is that they don't really do that, do they?

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

haha skybeam go brrrr

[@jimjamauto]

I think the problem is either most people making these movies are not fans of the media type and have only seen it as capeshit, and therefore can only produce capeshit, OR don't want to gamble on producing less formulaic content that might not have a wide reach. Movies like Watchmen, Road to Perdition, 300, Sin City, and Dredd all did a good job of bringing these different characters to film, but their success is a mixed bag.

[@MsYunaFires]

They used to. Iron Man, Thor, and Captain America 1st movies all felt alike but, simultaneously, different films. Now it's all homogenized. Same humor, same quips.

[@TheStonedZone]

@@MsYunaFires I've watched all the behind the scenes for those movies multiple times. And it seems like everyone all had one big thing in common: respect. Respect for the IP, respect for the audience, and above all, respect for the art of filmmaking itself (all things lacking with today's crop of creatives at Marvel Studios (and Comics)). They understood how to craft these worlds in a relatively complex yet cohesive way. Sure Iron Man 2 and The Incredible Hulk weren't great, but the still tried to put as much of the same respect into it as they could (I mostly blame Mickey Rourke for Iron Man 2, since I heard that a lot of the stupid shit with Whiplash is his fault - and perhaps the director of The Transporter wasn't a good mesh for a character like The Hulk (better than Ang Lee though)).

[@bronzetiger6360]

VERY,Well said👍

[@strategery101]

He’s a lesson: if EVERY sentence is a “joke” NOTHING is a joke or funny

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

-Syndrome (Paraphrased)

[@chasehedges6775]

@@yetanotherspuart3993 “And when everyone's super, no will be.”

[@chasehedges6775]

@@yetanotherspuart3993 The Incredibles was ahead of it's time.

[@9VENDETTA]

@@chasehedges6775 Without a doubt, my favorite Pixar film. Ages like a fine wine, and only gets better, as you get older 🤘🏻.

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@nont18411]

The example of how to wrap up a franchise in the recent times: Breaking Bad universe. Which is funny that they managed to succeed in everything that Marvel and DC want to but fail to do so: Strong female protagonist, legendary gay character, representation done right, all the storyline were tightly written together, fan service that really serves the story and great endings.

[@lethal-glory]

Who was the gay character?

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@jeffbrewer1580]

@@dergolem9444 i forgot about that

[@calibula95]

@@dergolem9444 lmao i always forget that.

[@redmistbluemiss]

@@calibula95 that's a testament to the character writing for the show. Gus is a guy who just so happens to be gay, but that doesn't define his character it's not the end all be all of his identity. That is how to do representation right.

[@tonytheoni]

That idea about having vastly different tones for their movies should have been implemented. Shang Chi for example, I would have loved to have seen a super grounded martial arts film, seemingly unconnected to everything else, until the end where the could have introduced or even just teased at how it connects to the MCU as a whole. Black widow being a dark spy flick is another one. This is all a pipe dream though. They're fundamentally averse to risk-taking of any kind.

[@abehambino]

That was the most disappointing entry to the MCU because of such wasted potential! I tried so hard to love that movie!

[@lordjimbo2]

They tried it with the TV shows, particularly Wandavision and Falcon and Winter Soldier. It wasn't the attempt to break out of the formula that was the problem, it was that they were so incompetently, hideously done with such poor characters and fist-in-your-face politics.

[@tonytheoni]

@lordjimbo2 that's why wandavasion was the best thing, maybe the only good thing, that they've done since Endgame. Yeah it completely fell off towards the end for several different reasons, but it's proof that doing something different can actually work.

[@Red0543]

Exactly! Not only that but phase 4 was the perfect opportunity for them to begin to branching out into other genres and tones. I mean there was no Thanos level threat looming on the horizon but the world was still reeling from the events of the Infinity Saga so they had plenty to work with in terms of excuses why the Avengers would split up and go and do their own thing their own way. Instead they just kept cranking out the same old bullshit over and over again…

[@emoninjasucks]

@@tonytheoni WandaVision started so strong with early TV tributes and the creeping mystery. Then it went to more modern sitcom styles that didn't mesh well with the earlier episodes. That Wanda got a heroic sendoff was really infuriating. The Shield stuff was also baffling.

[@terracottagecheese2767]

Something that I really appreciate about The Batman (2022) is that it's in a different genre than most other superhero movies currently: detective noir. Logan as well is a good example of a superhero movie that breaks the modern mold. So it has and can still be done. They just choose not to.

[@ryanc970]

The Batman was by far the best superhero movie of 2022. That's not saying much seeing it's competition is Thor 4 and Morbius but I loved it. Sad we'll have to wait till 2025 for the second one but it'll be worth it

[@mijanhoque1740]

@@ryanc970 Well there was also Doctor Strange 2, Black Adam and Wakanda Forever but yeah Batman beats all

[@alexandresobreiramartins9461]

@@mijanhoque1740 Black Adam was so so. The other 2 are abominations.

[@kool4209]

lol the batman is hot garbage

[@mijanhoque1740]

@@kool4209 Trash taste kiddo

[@utah_koidragon7117]

Logan was a good example of a comic book movie that broke that mold.

[@rexlumontad5644]

Critical Drinker: "Do you seriously believe your own hype that much?" Kevin Fiege: *"I AM THE HYPE!!!"*

[@NewSquallor]

Jennifer Lawrence: "I am the Hype maker!"

[@kalebm.4925]

Ah, I see you're a fan of culture as well.

[@danielfrank2985]

Steve Rogers: I understood that reference.

[@mayanksharma3651]

Vegeta - Kill Him!!!!

[@davidbraccini4770]

The irony is that the Marvel comics had also a bad received phase of gender swapping heroes that then obbligated Marvel to resuscitate the old heroes, so it is probable that after an other couple of bad phases the might bring back the original heroes with different actors.

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@thehumblepotatoreborn9313]

Why don't these morons ever learn lmao

[@sarov7658]

Why can't I see comments

[@StephenGillie]

@@sarov7658 I can't see the other 3 replies either. Guessing they're Telegram spam.

[@christophertaylor9100]

Superhero movies are not going to disappear. People aren't burnt out on Superheroes, they're burnt out on the kind of Superhero movies being put on screen.

[@jimjamauto]

Disney/Marvel themselves are sitting on IPs that could reel in their lost viewers if they ever seriously committed them to film, but they have zero clue what people want now

[@travisthompson1679]

I have the same take pretty much. I loved like the first iron man and the first avengers, but most of the movies weren't that good. There are plenty of good arcs in the comics that explored good ideas. I'm thinking on the the lines of the Logan movie. They could make a bunch of good one off movies like that.

[@Spazza42]

I have to disagree, I’m absolutely burnt out on Superhero movies. I don’t care about another Superman, Batman or who replaces Iron Man, Black Panther or Black Widow. The multiverse is just an opportunity to recycle and retell a same story 6 ways. I’m bored shitless of all of it.

[@Spazza42]

@@travisthompson1679 To add, I honestly got bored of Wolverine films too. It’s no different with Transformers because the recipe is the same there. It’s been done to death. The Terminator is awful because it hasn’t evolved, show us the actual war and how they live, do something new…

[@travisthompson1679]

@@Spazza42 Most of those were not good. I think it was one of those things where they had to make so many movies per year to keep the license or something and that's why they just kept making crap. I mentioned Logan as an example of a story that has the same characters, but isn't following the typical formula, it's exploring something new about the character and doesn't necessarily have to continue into more movies or be "canon". "Canon" doesn't really make sense for comic book characters because new people write for them and just do whatever they want anyway. This is a perfect example of intellectual property ruining things. Just let everyone make Wolverine moves, Spider Man movies, etc. and whoever makes the best one gets the viewership and the money. Billionaires should not be deciding what version of Spider Man we get.

[@cognitivedissidents4642]

Feige has been hailed as the genius behind the MCU’s success with Phases 1-3, but his reputation has been undergoing downward evaluation since then. I give credence to the opinion he was drafting on the creativity of others.

[@Lonovavir]

Just like the Wachoskis and The Matrix.

[@wesstewart2677]

Oh no doubt. Most of Phase 1’s success should be attributed to other’s efforts. Jon Favreau made Iron Man what it was and Feige was more influential with Iron Man 2 (which movie is largely considered better?) Incredible Hulk had Norton rewrite a lot of stuff in it without getting a writing credit. Joss Whedon as much of a despicable person he is, was what made the first Avengers film great. He truly made it feel like the ultimate crossover. Kenneth Branagh brought his experience in the realm of Shakespeare to the Thor Mythos. Also in my opinion Loki was absolutely the best when under the direction of Branagh. Joe Johnston brought his sense of wonder and adventure from the Rocketeer and Jumanji. And also a lot of people don’t give him and his staff credit for the VFX to make Chris Evans look scrawny. Like that was one of the most realistic effects for me at the time. TLDR: Kevin feige coasts off the success and brilliance of others. He’s like the one person in the group project that did the bare minimum to skate by.

[@macmcleod1188]

The problem started with Captain Marvel and Brie Larson. If Kevin feige had picked Katee Sackhoff, everything would have been different. Hell, if they just released Captain Marvel before infinity War, everything would have been different.

[@wesstewart2677]

@@macmcleod1188 ahh yes. The failings of an entire cinematic universe hinged on the casting of one character with one actress. You see how stupid your argument sounds rn? Get a grip of yourself dude. Lowkey sounding like a incel. Marvel started showing their faults with Age of Ultron. Literally there are videos dealing with the issues of marvels cinematography, color grading, too many jokes, etc. dating all the way back to 2015-2016 era, long before Brie Larson was ever a part of the MCU. Literally there are statements from actors such as Ed Norton and Mickey Rourke that also detail the issues of working within the MCU dating back to 2010, long before Larson. So what’s your point?

[@macmcleod1188]

@@wesstewart2677 That's not what I said. However, Deux Ex Machina is a *classic* for ruining entertainment quickly in seconds. And placing a character more powerful than every other character in between the last two movies was very disruptive. And then on top of that, Brie made a series of comments attacking customers of the products. Also a boneheaded move. So.. listen to yourself. In my case, I saw Infinity War 6 times. Black Panther 3 times. Endgame? Once. She was like a coachroach in your otherwise delicious salad. I mean come on, it only touched *part* of your salad. Just take it out and eat the rest.

[@AndrewJnsn]

There isn't superhero fatigue. There is Kevin Feige fatigue. And the rest of Hollywoke. People are tired of it all. Anyone who thinks they should take a BILLION+ dollar franchise and change the entire thing in a way that has been untested, probably shouldn't be in charge of anything important. Who honestly thought "hey let's take all of our current heroes and kick them in the nuts with a toxic female version that dresses similarly. That's a good idea!"?! I guess it must have been Feige and friends. Don't trust someone who is trying to hide their balding via a hat. That isn't someone honest with themselves. And apparently that person is too lazy to hire some hair restoration doctors even though they should have the money to easily cover such costs. I've seen plenty of people go from bald to a lot of hair. It really shouldn't be that difficult for Feige. It seems like a much better option than hiding under a hat for the rest of your life.

[@archam777]

I hide my balding by shaving the fur collar......... which is kind of putting it on display but hiding it at the same time?!? Idk, I like symmetry. And the pattern that my hair decided to fall out is not symmetrical 😅🤣😁 I guess you don't like Tim pool either, or at least don't trust him 😖🙄😉

[@DatcleanMochaJo]

I like how the rant turned into a rant about balding but I agree with it either way.

[@archam777]

@@DatcleanMochaJo lol.....yah 😖

[@macmcleod1188]

You have to have some hair transplant for hair transplants to work. Some rich guy's just don't have enough hair to transplant. And those cases, it's better to own their Chrome Dome. I keep my very thin hair pretty short.

[@matthewpatrick7263]

After half my hair was already gone, I simply started shaving it all off. I'm not ashamed of being bald. There's nothing wrong with it. At this point, I'm not sure I'd even want my hair back.

[@InconspicuousBot]

My wife and I have been bored waiting for some new seasons of shows, so we decided to rewatch the MCU. One of the more low-key, throw-away gags that makes me smile is when the album Disintegration starts playing during the Ant-Man and Yellowjacket fight in the briefcase. It’s dumb, but it always makes me chuckle.

[@dezznutz3743]

It's my own personal favorite MCU moment as well. Great song. Great scene.

[@kyon813]

Looking back at Winter Soldier, I really appreciate the first meeting between Sam and Steve. It's funny but not overwhelming or obnoxious, it actually builds the characters, it makes you understand why these guys would become friends. And the List is just the right kind of gag: lasts long enough to be funny, doesn't overstay its welcome, and fills in an important gap in Steve's character. Just a good, solid scene, sadly beyond the "talents" of these current writers.

[@TheRealNormanBates]

*The Expanse* is a perfect example of how you translate a book series to screen. There are a few changes simply for streamlining, but the show is 85% to 90% the books. Well paced, characters are smart but flawed, mistakes are made but dealt with in realistic ways… overall a solid 6 season series. The only reason they ended the show is because the last 2 books take place 20 years later.

[@floydffrogfloydffrog7453]

Correction: a solid, exemplary even, 5 seasons and 1 disappointing one.

[@contessa.adella]

I’d have like to seen it extended with a continuation of the general theme for at least another three seasons. I don’t think their story was exhausted and I was not bored with the characters. The danger is morphing the characters into something totally different over time…we wouldn’t want a repeat of sad, old, tired Luke Skywalker right, but with care and not straying far from what we enjoyed..yes, there was more milage to be had. Sad to see it wind up.

[@Leispada]

@@floydffrogfloydffrog7453 accurate

[@nottheonlydreamer9512]

@@akira_kei_ never read the books but I liked the show, especially the first 2 seasons, but I really disliked Naomi as a character. I wanted to like her because she was so significant but out of the 4 main characters she just seemed to be a very dislikable person imo

[@derrickbonsell]

The problem with The Expanse's source material is that what made it special was stripped away once interstellar travel became a thing.

[@oldhatAN]

A lot of the characters they introduced in phase 4 are characters from the mid-2010s that have already been sidelined because their books didn't sell. Kamala Khan was mildly popular when she was introduced but has been relegated to limited series now because she has been relaunched several times and her books sell worse every time. She is probably the most successful of the lot. Riri Williams hasn't had her own ongoing since 2019. America Chavez hasn't had her own ongoing since Rivera's run which was such a disaster that Marvel published a mini-series just to retcon it out of existence. Marvel really wanted to make Carol Danvers their new flagship character and pushed her hard. She had one series after another with each one selling less than the previous one. They are still plugging away trying to make Carol Danvers happen without much success. They are determined to center the MCU around these characters that mostly flopped.

[@joshg.6315]

It may never end, but it will never recapture the popularity that it had during the Infinity Saga

[@anubusx]

For me the mcu ended with with Infinty War.

[@garym6315]

What Mauler says about seeing only a fraction of the comic stories adapted is the reason why I loved the cartoons so much. Spider-Man and X-Men cartoons from the 90s had the same look and feel as the comics and were able to tell soo many stories over all the seasons they made. If you're not a comic reader then things like that are the next best thing.

[@TheRadioAteMyTV]

Living in a time where history has been abolished, I really yearn for movies of human heroes, like Davy Crockett, Daniel Boon, Kit Carson, Paul Bunyan, and all the modern people who have been ignored so we can have cartoon fantasies hogging up screen time and relegating actual super humans who did actual brave things to obscurity.

[@StephenGillie]

Remember that time when Caesar's armies were losing, so he grabbed a shield and pushed the other side back?

[@bikramarora1819]

Really does feel like that we’re being waterboarded with more and more superhero content

[@trueLuminus]

You're not being waterboarded with anything. You only say that because you care and feel compelled to watch it all. Do you feel the same about cop dramas that Hollywood seems to NEVER stop making? Or all those endless reality shows? No? It's because you don't care about them. I've never seen Doom Patrol because I don't care. Teen Titans: Season 3? Don't care. Stallone's "Samaritan"? Couldn't care less. See how that works?

[@kaimerry1587]

kevin's pretty optimistic for a company whose animated films came second to dreamworks last year.

[@bighand1530]

I prefer DreamWorks over Pixar, Disney and Marvel.

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@TheCentralScrutinizerAgain]

I think he means there will always be brain dead Brand Fans that watch and buy anything with marvel or dc sticker on it.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Dreamworks has always been better than Disney. The box office is just finally reflecting that.

[@GeraltofRivia22]

@@TheCentralScrutinizerAgain he's wrong though. Marvel audiences have declined massively when you look at ticket sales.

[@SourRobo8364]

Just like the comics, keep going and going. I was reading Grant Morrison's JLA from 1997 and they commented how people don't care as much when heroes die, because they keep coming back. Superman also had electric powers. Comcics are wild.

[@spideydew20]

That is one of many reasons why I completely stopped reading any X-Men comics years ago: that stupid new regeneration thing the mutants can do now. (I don't remember what it's called, nor do I care.) If any X-Men character can be easily brought back to life after they're killed, then why should I give a crap what happens to them?!

[@trob1731]

We're getting the kind of movies I thought they would entertain the masses with in '1984'. Like Drinker said, "Funny jokes, bright colors, over the top action." You've been entertained, brother. You're welcome.

[@chasehedges6775]

Kevin Feige and Kathleen Kennedy are the worst things to happen to Marvel Studios and Lucasfilm, respectively

[@strategery101]

It’s unreal how they still have jobs. In any other business (besides politics) if you’re this bad at your job you won’t have one long

[@duncanidaho5834]

@@strategery101 Uh they've made billions of dollars. In business, when you do that, you get rewarded not fired. Doesn't matter if the product is content instead of art. Dollar is the bottom line and retards will keep lining up, drooling, to pay for this garbage.

[@imyourwifesbigdsidepiece5048]

Kathleen Kennedy is an utter disgrace. As much as Feige is now a cuck to wokeness, he did bring us the Infinity Saga so I have to give him immense credit there. But his current M-She-U vision is a total embarrassment.

[@BattleDamageProps]

Stage 4 proved that Kevin Feige was only as brilliant as the people he surrounded himself with. And that Senators have to do better. Kathleen Kennedy has spent her career riding off the coat tails of better executives and creators, usually men. Some people are not meant to be in charge but are amazing at helping others execute a vision. She was one of those. Her visions and goals suck, but she was able to assist better visionaries in a Competent manner

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@markkoops2611]

I spent phase 4 wondering when the stories would get good and bring in a connective thread like previous phases, next thing I knew, phase 4 was over

[@Young_Star]

What is being overlooked is how much RDJ was involved in establishing Tony Stark. They only had a basic outline and he worked with Jeff Bridges and Favreau to flesh out the majority of Iron Man. So now RDJ going forward took ownership of the character and was completely invested in crafting a good story.

[@krasskswg]

Just a note (that has probably been pointed out already) but the comics actually did do a "Professor Hulk" version of the Hulk where Banner and Hulk became unified (at this point, it's probably been more than a few times) but it was *SO* much better than what went on in the MCU.

[@bmcfonzie]

I've never read the comic, but the Jekyll/Hyde dynamic is what makes the character(s?) unique and compelling. I don't see the appeal of removing that dynamic.

[@cosmokramer7396]

I have not liked what Marvel has done with Hulk since the first Avengers movie.

[@NosideGhst]

The drinkers liver will never end.

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS CRITICAL DRINKER, 99 MORE SEASONS, CRITICAL DRINKER 100 YEARS!!!!!

[@Geezer-yf8hv]

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@winterking2510]

Genres within genres would enrich the Marvel franchise for sure, adapting each movie to a new niche would be great. I agree Drinker. I think Werewokf By Night pulled that off beautifully. Old school horror movie meets superhero genre. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they'll capitalize on that success.

[@jibblehardicardi3827]

I think he's correct. Last few marvel films I went to watch, I felt like they'd never end. :-/

[@sarov7658]

Nwh was slow at times but it was somewhat satisfying but mom was awful

[@Mulletmanalive]

One of the awkward causes of the contraction of available sources is something at least the Drinker and Mauler have spoken in favour of: killing the villains every time. Aside from the fact it’s a mainstay feature of the comics not to kill them (because they’ve be hunted by the authorities for it if they did) but sooooo many of the great stories only make sense in their original context as revenge plots. As it ism the best you can generally hope for is the Dark Knight Rises thing. “I’m Talia al’Gul, you killed my father.” “I didn’t know you existed…”

[@il5702]

I rewatch Lord of the Rings several times per year too 🙋🏼‍♀️

[@CapSarcastica]

Any genre can die off and many have. Westerns, Sword and Sandals, Pirate, and Slashers all dominated the multiplexes and box office, and all of them have died out to the point studios wouldn't touch them for years. They all died out for the same reasons people are warning about superheroes: too many and not different enough. Diversity in the story is the key, but Feige doesn't understand. One of the reasons The Batman was such a breath of fresh air was because it was a mystery story first. Batman didn't beat Riddler by punching him but by figuring things out. The Batman was the first in the franchise to focus on Bruce being a detective not just a fighter. The Netflix shows felt new and different with their focus on small-scale issues, but then they tried for the big Avengers-lite show The Defenders. Imagine a Daredevil movie that's more like A Few Good Men where Matt has to use his alter-ego to find the information to win a big case. Imagine a Black Widow movie like The Manchurian Candidate where Natasha has to find a mole. Imagine a Thor movie like Lord of the Rings where he has to stop some dark lord from taking over the Nine Realms. Instead, it's just jokes, meta-humor, and CGI battles that's everything and the kitchen sink. Early MCU movies felt different from each other, but the Guardians of the Galaxy came out and suddenly every Marvel movie copied that in tone. Thing is, Fox was moving that way. They had their X-Men film which were the standard superhero vs supervillain story (though Days of Future Past took it in new directions) while also giving us an Unforgiven-style Logan, Hangover-style Deadpool films, and The New Mutants was initially advertised as a psychological horror movie. Now it's DC giving us the variety with Taxi Driver-style Joker and Se7en-style The Batman. The MCU has been a cash-cow, but like anything going to the same well too often will dry it up.

[@LiamEarls]

Martin Scorsese was right about Marvel

[@InfernosReaper]

I remember feeling nothing in MoM when those characters died, even the one played by the actor reprising the role. I knew *these characters* and *that world* were completely disposable, which is *exactly* how the movie treated them. Thus, the stakes didn't really matter

[@kirilangelov9752]

Exactly. It was neither funny, nor exciting to see them. The whole premise of the movie was that there is a single main universe, everything else is dispensible. Quite different from how they treated it in Endgame, where there were stakes and they had to return whatever they borrowed in order not to create and destroy alternative timelines. MoM just made everything disposable, up to the point where I didn't really care for the main characters and story either.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@kirilangelov9752 Yeah, the lack of consequences is pretty staggering Hell, a major sorcerer sanctum destroyed and pretty much all its followers slaughtered, but by the end of the movie, it's fine and there are new disciples there like nothing happened.

[@amorrow1983]

And the Titanic is unsinkable

[@bighand1530]

Pride comes before the fall.

[@CharlemagneGuy127]

The problem with that “sludge pile” of comic book movie adaptations is that certain comics become redundant or written out of the canon lore at some point in the future, or is just a one and done alternative universe sorta gig, like the Batman one where Bruce is killed instead of his parents who then become Batman and Joker in their universe. We’ve already seen it with the DCCU, like the original Suicide Squad or the original Justice League; why watch those when they don’t matter now that the DCCU plans are constantly falling apart and suicide squad got replaced with a reboot of itself and we’ve got the Synder Cut that makes the JL story a bit more complete and coherent to follow. There’s also the problem of quantity over quality with the MCU and how you’re expected to watch this series and this series and this movie and this movie to understand this future storyline planned a couple years later because this series introduces this character who’ll appear as a side character necessary to the plot of this movie later and just fuck that.

[@bjones8470]

It really sucks because after those first Rami Spiderman movies and going into The Avengers I was SO EXCITED for the release of these films and now I just don’t care at all. I couldn’t even finish The Eternals, I made it about half an hour and it was just SO BORING. The Hulk and Spiderman were my favorites growing up and what they did to The Hulk even before Professor Hulk just pissed me off. They destroyed one of if not the most interesting character that they had, a character that lasted 50 years and was still intriguing and within 5 years they just destroyed him.

[@bighand1530]

Safe to say Marvel’s best days are behind them.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@bighand1530 👍👍👍. It's just sad, really

[@StreetPreacherr]

MICHAEL BARON makes a GREAT POINT! The public frequently make statements like "No other Actor could have played that role." But I ASSURE you, there are always MANY acting candidates who would have ALSO been great in a role, it just would have been 'different', and of course you'd never have known...

[@tob2526]

You WILL consoom product and you WILL get excited for next product

[@chasehedges6775]

I don't want to. I want a good story

[@strategery101]

And the Normies will do as told

[@cokemaster3710]

@@chasehedges6775 you werent getting those from disney to begin with lol

[@VoxVeritasXXX]

100 YEARS KEVIN FEIGE, 99 MORE CYCLES, KEVIN FEIGE 100 YEARS!!!!! -MCU Dipshits

[@alonsomunoz4096]

Part of the problem, which is mentioned at about 11:00 is that the films used to make you want to watch the next. Entertaining stories first (or at least they tried) and shared plot moving forward second. Now? The shared universe works against them. There might be one film you want to actually give a chance, but you know you are going to be lost unless you consume the products you have skipped over the last 2 years. Enough to put you off giving anything a chance.

[@inazuma3gou]

I thought preview for Quantumania was pretty good... but since it pretty much gave me the whole story, I will just wait to go watch John Wick 4.

[@danjonmills]

Stop watching trailers, then. Especially for the sequel to a series of films you watched. Pretty sure you knew you'd wanna see Ant3 before watching a trailer, since I'm assuming you watched/liked 1&2. Be smarter. Hint: don't watch the trailer for JW4, either.

[@inazuma3gou]

@@danjonmills I went to watch Avatar 2 and they played the trailer. Sometimes you get unlucky with these things. I wasn't planning to watch Ant3 anyways. With JW4, I don't have a TV to watch the trailer, but you know what's going to happen anyways. John is going to join forces with Morpheus to take down the High Table. With JW4, I am not going in there for the story, but rather for the style of movie and action. It's like Maverick, the trailer is not going to make a difference because we know what's going to happen.

[@nhagan001]

@@danjonmills trailer for the next Spider Man Miles Morales movie didn’t give away the entire plot. Trailers just have to be constructed well. You choose important points, and hint. The Spider-Man trailer is a mother talking to her son about “when you go on your grand adventure, just come back as the son I know and love”. No reveal of the bad guy, no spoiler of him betraying the good guy. Just a trailer that says “our character is questioning his place in this vast world after encountering people like himself from other universes, and is given a pep talk by his mother.”

[@inazuma3gou]

@@nhagan001 well said

[@GeraltofRivia22]

"80 years of Marvel comic book history". Yet they chose to skip most of that and go straight to the post 2014 intersectional garbage no one wants.

[@chasehedges6775]

👍👍👍

[@aliendead7580]

You could make 1000 good Marvel movies AND have no fatigue, or 10+ bad movies AND be tired AND say ive had enough, AND their world building sucks, no cross movie events impact each other

[@joshuabekel9700]

Fatigue is very real! I started burning out on the MCU before Endgame. The DCEU never really got off the ground. I grew up LOVING comics. But, I haven't cared about anything on film and TV for several years. What I have seen as of late is garbage.

[@WilliamTheMovieFan]

Avengers: Infinity War was better than End Game, and here's why: Because the Avengers did all they could to win, and still lost. In a way, it is like a homage to the Empire Strikes Back. Back when ESB came out, people loved the movie, but they were shocked by the ending because it was so dark compared to Star Wars' ending. The Return of the Jedi did so well, because people wanted to see how it would end. I think Disney doesn't get it, which is why a cool bounty hunter, like the Mandalorian becomes a babysitter for their adorable money-maker, Grogu. They care about merchandise, not stories.

[@chasehedges6775]

Infinity and ESB are 10/10. They told dark and serious stories 😊

[@WilliamTheMovieFan]

@@chasehedges6775 Exactly! I think we are at that point in our society, where a large portion of people just want to stare at explosions and pretty lights. Stories don't seem to matter to them. They don't want to think to hard about the details.

[@medinmon5150]

Marvel movies start with good stories based on imitating other movies, and at the end they deviate to do their ridiculous aerial battles. Black Widow is a bad Bourne, Shang Chi is a bad Jackie Chan, Wandavision forgets it's a Sitcom and ends up with another aerial battle shooting lightning at each other.

[@thecod2345]

I mean Feige should be right on paper but the guy has turned a big medium into a standard mold and it’s getting old, especially since they’re not the ones innovating, x men series rightfully gets flack but Logan was a goddamn masterpiece and Marvel simply hasn’t experimented on that level.

[@TuckerLeeC]

I’m on board with 99% with what’s discussed. A lot of great points. But, anyone who doesn’t think Chris Evens doesn’t have range should watch Snowpiercer.

[@arceyes]

This is why The Batman was a breath of fresh air

[@GeraltofRivia22]

Same with The Joker.

[@KingKhupacabra]

Facts

[@smcd6101]

Agreed. Marvel is milking the aspects of its former success to death, and the milk is getting sour. 🤢

[@BattleDamageProps]

Phase 4 needed to introduce the fantastic 4, Richard Rider (Nova), and expand the cosmic landscape of marvel leading into the annihilation wave story. OR they should have introduced FF, squadron Supreme and the Xmen, but in different universes. He'll, they could do an avengers movie now with a different cast and story and have it take place in a different universe.

[@myNameWasNobody75]

On a related note: TV will never be a serious competitor for radio because people must sit and keep their eyes glued on a screen; the average American family hasn't time for it

[@visualcoco]

6:15 drinker goin IN on that off-camera sniff 😂💪

[@devilsmessanger]

7:37 Michael's doggos start arriving ^.^

[@garym6315]

I remember when New Mutants was first teased as a horror movie and I genuinely thought it was an interesting way to take the superheroes in to new genres. But even with that they messed it up

[@henrygambles3652]

Say what you will about DC’s current slate but at least they can diversify the kind of stories that they’re telling with Swamp Thing being a horror movie, Paradise Lost being a fantasy show and with Waller(hopefully 🤞) being a political thriller whilst also keeping Superman and Batman!

[@derrickbonsell]

You can have "comic book movies" that touch all sorts of genres. Unfortunately for Marvel, the "superhero comic" is a limited genre.

[@MyelinatedNeuronStew]

Feige is right that comics have as much material as novels to adapt, problem is they skipped half a century of good material and went to the modern woke trash.

[@brockdavid]

For example, I’m big into the Silver Surfer, they won’t approach him as a philosophical-hero, only that Surfer fast/strong. And, won’t touch on the theological implications and ramifications of a mortal becoming essentially a demigod. Galactus and the Surfer’s story is too cerebral and deals with the greater ebb and flow of cosmic death and rebirth. Just an opinion though.

[@gladiatorscoops4907]

Totally agree dude, SS is such an interesting and deep character with such a cool story. I guarantee they wont be able to convey that same level of character. Hell I bet the cartoon in the late 90s gets closer to the character than any future movies.

[@mudbeast21]

I feel you on that Norrin Radd such a tragic hero , they could do so much with his back story and flesh out his character and the dynamic between him and Galactus . If they weren't all fake sell outs, so short sited they won't even hire talent that are invested in these characters anymore.

[@brockdavid]

I adore the 1990s Silver Surfer cartoon, when Galactus was infected by the ‘hunger’ (a weaponized world, he had consumed, but essentially the ‘Hunger’s early concept) and Nova (Frankie Raye) and Norrin (Surfer) went inside to save the Big Man.

[@uphilliceskater]

The Silver Surfer animated series from the '90s was awesome.

[@brockdavid]

@@uphilliceskater it really was. They ended it on a cliffhanger. The storyline about Beta Ray Bill, and his peoples’ use of simulations to escape their problems was interesting too. But, it ended with Silver Surfer about to go stop Thanos from destroying reality.

[@Jkend199]

There is no comic book movie fatigue... There is bad movie fatigue, examples. X-men: Phoenix Saga, or Dark Phoenix, they have tried to adapt it twice, but the adaptations are NOTHING like the comic books... The story is all there, a full storyboard scene by scene and yet they make up their own story and they wonder why people hate it. Batman: Bane (The Broken Bat & Who Rules the Night) There is a reason fans love (or loved) Bane. He was this guy who figured out Bruce Wayne, what makes him tick. Wayne feels responsible for Gotham. Bane releases all of the inmates (a lot of the inmates anyway) from Arkham because he knows Wayne will do anything, pay any price to recapture them. In the "The broken Bat" Bruce confronts villain after villan sometimes more than one in a single night and he sees the bodies and the blood in the streets as they ravage Gotham... and it takes a toll, a physical and more importantly a psychological toll. Bane sews this chaos and sits back as Wayne driven by his obsession, by his overwhelming need to protect everyone the way he couldn't protect his parents leads him to push himself so far beyond his limits that eventually even Batman cannot stand again. In this state Bane confronts him, with Batman so physically, mentally and emotionally exhausted that he can barely marshall the strength to stand and he defeats him, breaks his back. It is one of the greatest Batman stories every told. Did you get any of that from the movies? I could go on, I am a huge comic book nerd, but the point is people aren't tired of Batman movies, they are tired of Bad Batman movies. There are so many stories that could be adapted and yet studios choose not to, they let directors make up their own stories... and we get shit like The Dark Night Rises...

[@VindictiveRaider]

I'm really nervous because Secret Wars coming out and Secret Wars is about the beyonder. I really hope they don't mess the beyonder up because he's such a powerful and great character. Worse scenario could be the beyonder is not even in secret Wars and it's actually Kang instead.

[@paulnash9851]

Never mind the Beyonder, be very, very worried and afraid of how they are going to do with the brilliance that is DR DOOM !!!...

[@JennySparkz]

@@paulnash9851 The Beyonder will be female. Calling it Now

[@Atharun18999]

Even in comics, I have always hated multiverses. The only series I feel that does it "well" is something like Gundam, where they keep the different shows separate aside from video games. Even then they still keep the Original Universal Century running. I don't need to keep track of 52+ versions of Superman, all the different Reed Richards, Spidermen, etc...

[@PoolKid75]

Every time Michael A. Baron speaks I hear Piglet from Winnie the Pooh.

[@matthewcollins4773]

Oh, d-d-dear!

[@dr.matthewhertert310]

yeah - the guy running walking dead said that, too, and the second he said it i was like, “well, bye bye WD.”

[@Sleepgarden]

the MCU is like Mr Burns "you are here forever" sign

[@buckmudd8006]

"potential fatigue"? I can't stand hero movies anymore. That poor, poor, dead horse is a pulp by this point.

[@ouchiegiverjr]

So sad to see a franchise plummet as fast as Marvel has.

[@ghostinthecraig]

I got to say that the fact that the little platoon now has a moving avatar it’s so rad but slightly scary 😅

[@ghostinthecraig]

Still a fan tho 🤘🏾

[@charlesman8722]

This is the song that doesn’t it end, it just goes in and on my friend….

[@CRhodesDesign]

Remember when the characters would be like Bond and just get recast …. Now we’ve a dead Cap, IronMan and dead dead Black Panther and 50+ years of stories all looked over to get the 2010s when comics started to die.

[@TexanWarEagle]

Disney is the Borg. Marvel has been assimilated.

[@chasehedges6775]

Resistance is futile

[@GoranKlintenheim]

He’s right you know. Feige. He didn’t say “superhero comics”. That’s something you added to his statement. He said “comics”. And not all comics are superhero comics. And there’s an endless ocean of comics in other genres than just superheroes. Take 300 from Frank Miller as an example. That’s a historically fantasy based comic book. Got translated to a movie and was fantastic. So Feige was basically right. Comics are almost an endless source of ideas for movies, just as novels 👍

[@timbeaver9790]

Kevin Feige lived long enough to see himself become the villain. I remember when we all thought he was untouchable. He got a LOT of the credit for guiding the MCU through its first three phases. I'm sure if I go back and rewatch a bunch of those movies now, I will hate them. The last few years of nonsense have thrown everything that came before into a harsh new light.

[@cmd31220]

I find it hilarious that Marvel and Fiege are so proud of their "formula", but all of the best MCU movies are the ones that stray AWAY from that formula. Winter Soldier is a spy thriller. Thor Ragnarok is an improv comendy. Iron Man 1 is a fairly serious (especially compared to later films) origin story. Spider Man 3 is a nostalgic, heartfelt character study. Guardians of the Galaxy is an absurdist space opera, and it's sequel take all that and still somehow manages to be an emotional Rollercoaster. No one remembers Iron Man 2 or Doctor Strange 2 or Black Widow because it's just MCU movie #276

[@johnwolf2829]

I think you should look back at the Writer's strike of 20 years ago. wHorrywood's treatment of writers caused most of them to just leave, for ever. That was the birth of "reality" TV, and the start of Directors and Producers thinking they could write.... with hideous results. So then they turned to the most sophisticated source they understood; Comic Books. Next will be Games. Its over, time to look at Indy films and foreign products, Hollywierd has vanished up it's own backside.

[@chasehedges6775]

There were a lot of good films in the mid 2000s tho

[@dissident_media]

Nothings Ever Really Gone

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

Fiege clearly doesn't understand the history of Marvel comics. They've had to hit the reset button multiple times when the characters and plot became too convoluted and people stopped reading. His hubris will be their downfall.

[@dcmastermindfirst9418]

No shit. Feige admitted he never actually read a comic. He had a few action figures. That's it.

[@_scabs6669]

An offhand comment Drinker made here is a real gem, the bit about "eating up screentime." When you get a feeling for film history you realize this is what a lot of movies are all about. And it's not always a bad thing. When you look at a lot of the very low budget giallo style films of the 70s, or even more action packed movies like Dirty Harry or early James Bond from around that time, the point of the films is one or two really explosive set pieces that they have the budget for, and the rest of it is trying to stretch out runtime so you have a feature film not a short. This can take the form of goose chase second act mysteries, vibey long takes, world building, romance, love scenes, dialogue scenes, or character work. Tarantino has made a career out of following this pattern, having a lot of snappy dialogue that nobody really cares about in between the intense action that you came for. This is what made the original blockbusters great, was the sense that you had to wade through all this bullshit to build anticipation for the big finale. Jaws is actually a terribly boring movie other than the third act, but that works because it builds suspense, and people will go back to watch it again and again. When that becomes concretized into a formula though, it's garbage. But if you atune yourself to this dilemma of filmmaking, you'll see it's all over your favorite movies. And if you can master it, it can really boost your own creations.

[@Mikemcjr]

Shits just warming up.

[@JenkoMorningstar]

I never expected to see Mike Baron on Drinker's stream. So cool!!

[@MaggieD0123]

Marvel ended after the Infinity saga.

[@PerfectCell9]

Yes I Finally get to see The Drinker .. Drinking cheers mate 🍻

[@LeoJay]

He means Marvel will never end on a good note

[@apollolux]

It's extremely disingenuous of Feige to say Marvel has 80+ years of stories to tell on screen when they've proven that they're not only crap at curating the ones they already have done recently, they're also more than willing to completely ignore those 80+ years of stories in favor of making stuff up to appeal to an audience that doesn't pay. If they were actually faithful to those 80+ years of stories, the Thanos saga of movies would've found a way to justify his original comic book motivation of trying to literally court the personification of Death instead of "bringing balance to the universe," they wouldn't have killed Tony Stark during it, and they certainly wouldn't have killed T'Challa offscreen in the second Black Panther movie. More ridiculous storylines like Captain America as a werewolf (aka "Capwolf" in the 90s) could've been relegated to Halloween episodes of series like Loki or Falcon & The Winter Soldier or something, but they wouldn't have pulled the trigger on aging Steve Rogers out of action as early in the movie timeline as they did if they were genuinely faithful to telling "80+ years of stories." Insincerity abound at Disney.

[@lacrimatorium]

Remember Feige now rhymes with beige.

[@Fujtajblus]

I work with corporate people. If you give them honest criticism of their product, they often shake their heads, give you what on surface looks like you are looking for and be done with you. If you point out that what they gave you is not enough because of a, b, or c, they will just dismiss you.

[@jmstater]

I'll never understand why they chose Robert Downey Jr., a man who went through addiction, to play Tony Stark, a man who went through addiction ... and didn't do the arc of Tony's alcoholism forcing him to give up being Iron Man, Rhodes taking up the mantle, and then Tony eventually reclaiming his life and his armor. It was so obvious to me that this is what they would do ... and then they only hinted at it. Weird.

[@bob1986]

Supposedly there was a real reason for that. Downey pretty much refused to have to play a serious addiction storyline because it was so close to home and he was afraid he might relapse if had to get into that headspace again. Which is why Tony's drinking was mostly played for laughs and pretty much phased out after the first Avengers film.

[@jmstater]

@@bob1986 Well that makes sense - I certainly wouldn't want Downey to go through anything like that for a movie.

[@lonewolf_a_real1]

There'll never be fatigue for quality. Disney Marvel is making corporate garbage so they're losing fans. Simple.

[@chasehedges6775]

I want a good story with good characters. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO AKS FOR!?

[@squashua16]

It will go the same way the western did

[@bighand1530]

Perhaps Steven Spielberg is right after all.

[@chasehedges6775]

@@bighand1530 👍👍

[@chasehedges6775]

@@bighand1530 Along with Martin Scorcesse

[@flarestorm9417]

The MCU is like a movie or sports star that's out of their prime, but is still trying to cling to glory. They could've realized their time is up and left on good terms, but instead their end will be a crash-and-burn that taints their legacy. Unlike cartoons and video games, you can't just swap out actors and continue a story forever. Well, you can, but it's far more jarring to do so, and makes the story even harder to follow. The fragmentation of comic book canon also makes it harder for them to adapt certain materials (e.g., introducing the Fantastic Four after the original Avengers are already either retired or dead, when in the comics they were all around at the same time), so that's another issue. Going off of the comic adaptation point, the MCU also has the issue of trying to adapt events from the real world. Two KZbinrs brought up separate points regarding this, but both are applicable. The first point is that technology in the MCU is constrained by trying to relate to the real world. Only the superheroes and supervillains have the high tech gear, and no one else (e.g., Tony having holographic technology in 2008, but regular places like schools and businesses still using computers and paper like they do in our world). Another point is that tying incidents to real-world events makes some things harder to adapt (e.g., imagine trying to do a Magneto origin story 100 years from now when his origins are directly linked to World War 2).

[@GoodHunter9]

It's dead, Jim.

[@MikesGearGarage]

The sludge must flow ...and flow ...and flow and flow.

[@LeoJay]

80 years worth of stories, yet they keep trying to force the recent woke garbage instead of actual old good ones.

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

I saw the first xmen movie which was about 2001 something like that. That's where the modern ones started as far as I remember. Superhero stories are alright but they are pretty formulaic because they were written for kids really when they started, so you shouldn't be expecting Dickins levels of story craft. If you take them for what they are they are fine. If I want proper drama or storytelling, comic book films are not really the place to look for that. Thanks Drinker.

[@abehambino]

Early 2000s have X-men, spider man, fantastic four. It was the dawn of the modern superhero movie to be sure!

[@gear5corey901]

This is why i liked anime, every one ends at some point

[@eegoii]

Tell that to Dragon Ball.. 😂

[@Garrus1995]

Or One Piece.

[@gear5corey901]

@@eegoii 😂 dbz just might be the one that goes forever

[@gear5corey901]

@@Garrus1995 kinda… one piece finally has an end in sight…even if it is 10yrs from now

[@Andrew_TS]

Where are the cowboy comic movies, mystery comic movies, horror comic movies, pirate comic movies...?

[@andyt2979]

This is the problem with corporate thinking: infinite money is never enough, there must also be infinite growth. There always has to be MORE infinite money than there was last quarter. Marvel *could* make their movies into different genres, but they never will. That would involve original, creative ideas, and the producers taking a financial risk, and the giant money machine is capable of neither.

[@johnnyt71982]

Endgame was the biggest let down of my life.