Drinker's Chasers - The Death Of The Snyder Myth

Zack Snyder recently commented that he believes Rebel Moon was more popular than Barbie, using the most questionable math imaginable. Is there any truth in it, or is he just inhaling massive doses of copium?

[@chrisgorman8191]

So sad we just lived through a time where people had unlimited funds to make movies but didn’t know how to write stories.

[@ramonserna8089]

The best Star War movie is "New Hope" and that one has the least budget. Limited resources promote creativity, while movies like " Ring of Powers" or "Rebel Moon" don't know what to do with the money. They allegedly spent 100,00 bucks animating a tree in "Rings of Power". For that money they could have filmed a real tree and put some decent costumes and make up for the actors.

[@randomdude189]

In a few years we will be watching content with no actual people in it. They might even find out your phone contacts and integrate their faces into ads on apps you use to get you to buy something. You’ll be able to take existing movies and change the cast/alter scenes. It’ll be too much

[@randomdude189]

@@ramonserna8089my favorite was revenge of the sith but I realized over the last few years there aren’t any real good Star Wars movies. They were a fun concept that worked until it was over saturated and made inconsistent. The reason they did so well at the time was the lack of any other immersive sci-fi that was still accessible to pedestrians. Now they retroactively remove interest for entire franchises because they time travel or alternate universes. It’s just reached a point where it’s being used to send a message not build a fantasy world. I tried watching the x men movies and they are so lacking too when they change casting and alter storylines and represent alternative weirdos as mutants which gets us Ellen page which is in the last stand which completely explain why she’s bought into the madness so much. It’s all just so gross now. Dr who summed it up best with the new casting

[@Cimo8]

Do it yourself then.

[@RichSmithson]

Sad isn't it. We are at a point they could make all the franchises we could only dream about 20 years ago. And instead we get nothing but tripe.

[@Abighairyspider121]

Zack Snyder going full Taika Waititi, “I'll ruin your mythos in a minute, baby.”, is a bold move.

[@marlom7882]

I mean … did no one else see what he did to the DCEU? It’s obvious this mf hack didn’t know wtf he was doing

[@kyotheman69]

dude had no clue what was meaning of watchman, he made great movie but was clueless the core of the comic

[@judgedrekk2981]

Bold plan Cotton, let's see how this plays out.....

[@countpicula]

What do you mean going taika? Snyder pre dates waititi saying that. One reason everyone was against him after man of steel was his interviews leading up to the films saying he loves to destroy people characters. Taika waititi was going full zack Snyder.

[@countpicula]

@@kyotheman69yeah he just copied the book. Same with 300

[@TheWarmachine375]

The Critical Drinker and The Boys: "Do you seriously believe your own hype that much?" Zack Snyder: *"I AM THE HYPE!"*

[@dontshootmex5588]

"Somehow... Zack has returned"

[@papapanders488]

ahh tfs reference. RIP toriyama

[@dadocta5168]

Well, he is.

[@ForgottenHonor0]

Zack Snyder, no!

[@spartanhawk7637]

@@ForgottenHonor0 Zack Snyder aiming his terrible direction directly at the DCEU with all the power of the Final Flash: *"ZACK SNYDER, YES!!!"*

[@leBoldman]

my dad loved rebel moon, according to him it was one of the best naps he took in the whole year. his viewership count is actually 95% sleep time. i love how they just invent numbers nowadays and the 'smart' money just eats it up without questioning it.

[@Jasper_Silva]

Your dad sleeping counts as two full priced tickets plus gas and popcorn to watch Rebel Moon according to Zach.

[@SammEater]

That is because the corporate suits only know how to look at charts. They are completely disconnected from reality and their audience. Just like game companies thinking most players like liveservice as a whole just because Fortnite is at the top of most played games lists.

[@chelikhkahn]

I bet your dad really loved Barbie...

[@nour2146]

I’d imagine he woke up feeling energised

[@mattresbert]

Brilliant ❤

[@annatardlordofderps9181]

"I want to put Batman in a position where he HAS to kill." _cut to Batman in his Bat-tank shooting a Bat-Rocket at some random guy behind a truck with an AK in Batman Vs Superman_

[@mattperkins261]

Maybe Batman stubbed his toe earlier that day or got a parking ticket that day whilst he was accidentally parked in a disabled space hurriedly because the joker needed a good face punching for trying to blow up the orphanage or something? Like, he's doing good and some twat just pops a ticket on his car? Obviously you're gonna get in your tank and kill a criminal or two after either of those massive, yet mild, inconveniences. Frankly, if he IS dealing with stubbed toes and parking tickets all the time, Gotham should be grateful he doesn't just nuke the city.

[@power279]

So you gonna act like the other batman never kills? Nice joke bruh

[@r3dr4te963]

There is one "Injustice" comic version where Batman kills Joker, with 100% clear consciousness (not mind controlled or possessed). After that, he immediately surrender himself to Gordon, reveal his civilian identity, and abandoning his mantle. He no longer claim himself as Batman. While there are still some inconsistencies and plot hole in that story, I believe that's what Batman will do if he kill willingly, no longer become vigilante.

[@Shockguey]

@@r3dr4te963 "where Batman kills Joker" That was a dream sequence.

[@blacklivesorblackvotes2985]

@@power279 nice job completing moving the goalpost because you can’t defend Snyder’s retarded point. Self own 10/10 bruh.

[@schaddenkorp6977]

In the animated series of Batman from the 90s there’s an episode where a super computer called HARDAC has made an android doppelgänger of Batman that was so perfect an imitation of the real one that when it believes it actually murdered someone it goes berserk and destroys itself.

[@matttriano]

That's fucking awesome

[@mabusestestament]

Then it’s not a perfect imitation.

[@schaddenkorp6977]

@@mabusestestament Want to explain that a bit more or are you just being contrarian?

[@schaddenkorp6977]

@@matttriano that show was amazing

[@mabusestestament]

@@schaddenkorp6977 Well Batman has killed in different instances and incarnation and didn’t destroy himself then, so…

[@reyalexandro]

Rebel Moon was soooo awful. He really has let his fans inflate his ego. Why is he even comparing a Barbie movie and Rebel moon. Now compare Dune 2 and Rebel Moon, almost the same budget, and both space Sci fi films, then you'll see how shit Rebel Moon is.

[@Bonesawisready926]

Denis is actually a talented director, that's the main difference. Not the biggest fan of some of the changes made in the third act of Dune 2, but in this franchise saturated world, I understand why they were made. Snyder doesn't understand storytelling and is pompous and pretentious. At least Michael Bay knows he is just making popcorn flicks for teenage boys.

[@DamienDarkside]

@@Bonesawisready926 Michael Bay is more like Denis tbf. He knows what he's doing and specializes in that area, which you pointed out in how he knows he's making a popcorn movie. Michael Bay happens to specialize in two things: Filming Cars and Explosions. After ten years, Transformers still looks AMAZING (especially the 2007 film). A lot of Snyder films age more and more with his CGI. Snyder and Bay both write women just as well though, as in shit.

[@Jasper_Silva]

​@@Bonesawisready926 Yep. Snyder way has too much ego to change for the better at this point, he's in a collision course. And it's sad because his work does have a uniqueness to it that's lost on it being so flawed.

[@marcogenovesi8570]

@@DamienDarkside Michael Bay's shtick is blowing up stuff, which makes him more likeable than an arsehole that adds lens flare everywhere or another arsehole that makes everything blurry and adds slow motion segments to the slow motion segments

[@kyotheman69]

i stopped watching his stuff after Watchman, he did good job with movie, funny he had no clue the meaning of it, he was clueless about the comic. Man of Steel was complete ass was insult to Superman character, why i stopped watching anything he made afterwards, he's a joke.

[@8ligh7]

The DCEU fans really went hard in propping up Snyder as this misunderstood genius of "mature" and "dark" storytelling. The guy got a whiff of those praises and then immediately thought he was actually a genius filmmaker.

[@rbleaks818]

Snyder fans*

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

Um...he's been making the same film since 300. Doesn't matter what genre the film has been, it's 300 again. Has nothing to do with DCEU.

[@RafitoOoO]

Snyder fans, those guys were never DC fans, if they were they'd be pissed at the portrayal of Superman and Batman instead of enjoying it.

[@rbleaks818]

@@RafitoOoO They're delusional af. They even admit that they don't read or care about the comics (which the characters were based on).

[@wjzav1971]

If anything, 300 proves that Snyder can work when he is tasked with telling a simple story that is already dark and gritty. The problem comes in when he tries to make "smart" films.

[@murrayroodbaard207]

Imagine someone making a Punisher movie, and saying "Fans say that Punisher isn't kind to murderers, that's canon, so of course the first thing i think is... "

[@diegovegas3850]

Oh hell no!

[@kool4209]

Not really applicable, you’re telling me Batman doesn’t use guns? So if someone’s in front of him and about to shoot him. He has no weapons, just a pistol from a bad guy next to him. He’d rather die than use it? 😂😂😂😂😂 or Superman….. Zod’s about to melt a family of 5….. Superman can save 5 lives by taking 1. He knows without a doubt Zod won’t stop, Zod also says yes if you let me go these ninjas are goners 😂😂😂 I’d rather have a logical Superman who can weigh the life of a violent alien hellbent on killing vs a innocent family 😂😂😂😂

[@spideylover2000]

​@@kool4209Ignoring the fact that your comment isn't really even a response to OP, I'm pretty sure the reason that Bruce Wayne decides to stop being Batman (in Batman Beyond), is because he relied on a gun for the first time. Also Superman doesn't even have a no-kill rule. He just hates doing it.

[@LordVader1094]

@@kool4209 As soon as he uses a gun to defend himself, he stops being Batman. If he gets to that point where his wits and body are unable to keep up and he has to use firearms as a crutch, he either isn't Batman anymore or gives up the cowl in every story.

[@Fujtajblus]

@@kool4209He has a bulletproof suit, what do you mean "someone in front of him and about to shoot him"? He will just cover his month area with his cape or whatever (as I suppose that is bulletproof now too). Point being - the idea is Batman might shoot somoene in the leg. But not deliver a killing shot because of his principles. And to the OP... yea, I can see how Hollywood would just take Punisher and be like "oh we don't really like how he is killing people so we decided to adapt it to a more.. modern audience and make him lawful"

[@Denien82]

It's like listening to a child... "They told me don't do that, so naturally the first thing I thought..." . That's the depth of thought of this man. Do you think it's the same with camera focus? "They told me "people like to understand what they are watching, they like sharp focus", so naturally I though... BLURRR!" 😂

[@savagex378]

"People like really fast paced thrilling action scenes, so naturally I thought... slow motion!"

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Artists are often less mature like that

[@Jadty]

That movie was so disgustingly photographed. I’m not the type of guy to close a movie before it’s done, I usually watch the whole thing regardless. Rebel Moon however, I closed after less than an hour.

[@zzodysseuszz]

@@Jadty Jesus. I sat through the entire gods of Egypt movie, the second Independence Day, and on a lesser note the second pacific rim movie because I think I should at least finish the movie. Are you saying even I could not sit through that movie? Cos wow

[@Denien82]

@@marcogenovesi8570 yeah, but talented and smart ones also understand why their idea might not work sometimes or why people might think if you change the very nature of a character, that character is now a different person. He seems unable to fathom that, as if in his head as long as batman wears a cape and pointy ears, he's always batman... 😅

[@user-xu5rv6oe2s]

Rebel Moon sounds like a name a 12 year old would come up with for their new band 😂

[@dalemanolas5994]

Or Sailor Moon's sister.

[@Jadty]

@@dalemanolas5994Sailor Moon’s baddie sister 😈

[@headshot217]

Accurate age for zack snyders mentality

[@Jasper_Silva]

I love Mauler's comment in some other video that Zach Snyder is NOT like a 12 year old. I think he was saying Filoni was like a 12 year old playing with SW toys... Zach Snyder is more like an edgy 14 year old which is way worse lol

[@docsavage8640]

@Jasper_Silva he's like the 14 year old who plays with 10 year olds to make himself feel cool

[@TheLoos3Goos33]

I watched all of the jre interview with him and it really does explain how Zacky thinks, and why he writes like he does. He did some impressive twisting of the argument around "Batman doesn't kill" where he never really delves into why but rather goes the childish route of, "well if you say he doesn't kill, then the first thing I (as a creator) want to do is have him kill.". He poorly plays devil's advocate for the other side of the argument, giving the absolute worst opposing take. So either he doesn't understand the criticism or he just purposefully only focuses on the least thought out takes against him. He NEVER explored Batman struggling with killing, his Batman just did. We skipped all that interesting character development so Zacky could get to his fun murder bat. This interview would be a really fun, but frustrating EFAP.

[@Denien82]

Yep. The problem with his generation of filmmakers (at least main stream) is that they all seem to be one trick ponies. Some of their tricks I even like, but they seem incapable of making anything different. Gunn, Waititi, Snyder, to name a few... Everything they do goes through a process of standardization which gets quite boring quite fast. And to be clear, if they want to keep the same style, vibe or whatever their entire career, that's their prerogative, but they can't expect people are gonna react well when they superimpose it on existing material...

[@la_scrittice_vita]

He and his cult all seem to argue like 10 year olds.

[@billybarnett9518]

Except Snyder didn't write BVS, that was Chris Terrio. David Goyer wrote MOS and he claims credit for Superman snapping Zod's neck.

[@quantumbl33p]

Batman’s arc is about Batman losing his humanity through the trauma of Superman/Zod’s arrival and destruction. Batman allows his anger to guide his morality and through that convinces himself that the ONLY way that he can regain his own humanity is by TAKING Superman’s life. In the end Batman sees that he was so consumed and blinded by his anger that it allowed him to be manipulated (by Luthor) into almost killing “god” (Superman). Then when he sees “god” GIVE his life to save humanity, he is able to let go of that anger and commits himself to honoring Superman’s sacrifice and legacy. “I failed him in life, but I will not fail him in death” Batman acknowledges his sin and embraces his penance. As for the “casualties of war” that are the TRAINED KILLERS who are holding Superman’s mom with a FLAMETHROWER to her head…I question anyone’s own morality who would defend the type of evil people that get paid to kidnap and burn old ladies and villages in the mideast. Oh no, Batman threw THEIR grenade back at them and they blew up- THAT is the moral case you’re making? gtfoh. People somehow can’t understand that the Batman we meet in BvS WAS “hero batman” for 20 years, loses his faith and becomes “killer batman” and then puts himself on the road to becoming “hero batman” again by the end of the movie. You can absolutely HATE this storyline or creative choice, BUT you CAN NOT say that Batman’s “struggling with killing” was NEVER explored when it is IN FACT the literal plot of the movie. It’s even spelled out by Alfred in the trailer/movie: “Thats when it starts, the fever the rage. The feeling of powerlessness, that TURNS GOOD MEN CRUEL” Like do people like yourself actually NOT understand the movie? Or is it that you just don’t like the story and REFUSE to understand it? If it was just simply “Batman is a murderer with no context and no reason”, then people wouldn’t STILL be debating it 8 years later. Same with Man of Steel. Literally no one is (or ever was) debating and deconstructing say, Loki’s moral conflict from Thor (2011). Love or Hate Snyder, he’s made films whether by intent or by accident- that provoke and inspire debate and discussion long after their release. His movies seem to work for the type of people that like both pop music AND avant-garde. Pop fans are put off by the “ugly” creative choices, and the avant-garde fans malign and disregard those same choices as try-hard and pretentious for daring to turn pop trash into anything more than what it’s “supposed to be”, which is disposable.

[@jlev1028]

​@quantumbl33p I don't think Rebel Moon's inspiring any debate, fanboy. It's just diet-Star Wars without any of the characters that made it interesting. Neither is Army of the Dead worthy of discussion. It's just a heist flick with zombies.

[@TheWarmachine375]

Zack Snyder loves his slow motion scenes way too much.

[@Shlogger]

Yeah. It's his favorite little trick. Gets old. That slow stop slow motion speed up shit was so old already years ago. Not that he's the only one who does it. It's become standard action crap. Like the cinematic version of autotune. But hes the most egregious possibly.

[@timwhite5562]

Thank God he didn't decide to go into porn, it would be…just f'cking disgusting.

[@daveeyes]

It's like watching the Six Million Dollar Man. I realize that dates me.

[@Jadty]

It was really cool in 300, which is probably his best movie along with Watchmen.

[@Shlogger]

@@daveeyes ha. good one. I hadn't thought of that. lol. so ahead of their time.

[@JustaGuy_Gaming]

I stopped caring about directors years ago. They take all the credit when things go right and none the blame when a movie bombs. It doesn't help that many the worst movies a director ever made were passion projects with no oversight.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

You're not wrong.

[@IAmInfinitus208]

At least Schumacher apologized for Batman and Robin and owned it.

[@Last_Watcher]

And then there's Michael Mann, who readily admitted that Blackhat was unready, unbelievable, and far too technical. Which I can eternally forgive him for, since Heat is one of the best crime movies of all time

[@wjzav1971]

Don't forget that for years Ridley Scott was seen as the 'Mastermind behind Alien' when like a ton of people worked on that movie and we saw what Scott did when he tried to make a prequel, believing his own hype. Honestly, you could say the same thing about George Lucas and Star Wars.

[@TheMasterQuests]

George had alot of help with Star Wars idk why he got so much credit

[@TonySylvesterOhio]

This is what you get when you hand a character like Batman over to someone who isn't a fan of the property but is curious about seeing things from a new angle.

[@zombifiedpariah7392]

Uh no, that's putting it way too in favor of Hack Snyder. He literally admitted himself that he only does things to piss off fans. Fans that are paying to see their favorite characters done right. He doesn't do anything to actually make something that can be seen as art.

[@mrkeogh]

Nah, Chris Nolan did that with the more realistic Batman trilogy. Snyder couldn't write anything remotely as good as that. In fairness, I quite enjoyed _Watchmen_ despite the really obvious music choices that were a bit of a red flag about the lack of sophistication behind those decisions.

[@declanosullivan8770]

​@@mrkeoghNolan made stories that made no sense what on earth are you talking about, I like them movies but they are a mess especially the dark Knight rises.

[@lukeshioshio]

He's a bigger Batman fan than you.

[@zombifiedpariah7392]

@@lukeshioshio In what way?

[@DamienDarkside]

If I had to write a two page essay and I came up with six pages, I'd seriously reconsider my entire process permanently.

[@vanyasecundus4684]

This is the kind of math that people use to get venture capital for things like the Juicero and offshore wind farms. *NO NO IT'LL TOTALLY MAKE BILLIONS LOOK AT THIS GRAPH*

[@greebj]

I like how he decided to multiply it by 2 because... every person buys 2 tickets every time they view a movie at the cinema? Edit: disparu just said pretty much the same thing

[@maxbaugh9372]

"Say there's this box, and there's nothing in the box, but you claim it's worth $20 million, so soon people see this box is $20 million and start buying shares so it goes up to $30 million..." -- SBF

[@SimonBaldock]

People seem to forget that Snyder's DC films weren't well received by either critics or the public when he was there: due to tone, character and overall plotting. Then when he left and the subsequent release of the Josstice League everyone seemed to think that whatever wasn't released was better "because he had the vision". The grass is always greener approach. Snyder is the pretenious-mans Michael Bay. Bay knows what kinds of films he makes, Snyder believes he's God's gift to filmmaking.

[@kool4209]

That’s because y’all cry and whine if the good guy isn’t the winner every time 😂😂😂 pretty delusional view of life. But yall wanna be coddled.

[@weswolever7477]

Hopefully god kept the receipt

[@greebj]

​@@kool4209 His anti heroes are depressing, nihilistic and barely motivated, that's why they're disliked. Add that to bad writing and his horrific pacing, you truly have to be in the Snyder cult to like anything post Watchmen

[@LordVader1094]

@@kool4209 People loved Punisher. Zach just fails at making every character the Punisher like he wants them to be.

[@ii-mp1sp]

I don't know, I liked it. I've always believed that DC should be the darker and more violent equivalent of Marvel, and Justice League 2021 is the best DC movie since The Dark Knight.

[@joshuaknoll925]

Even if he's right about the number of people watching, the dollar figure is way off. Watching something at no additional cost and mostly ignoring it in the background is different than actually buying theater tickets.

[@mabusestestament]

He knows that, you are misrepresenting his argument.

[@nont18411]

Zack Snyder’s Shogun When a samurai pissed on Blackthorne, that stream of piss went down super slowly for 5 minutes before the first drop touched Blackthorne’s back. Toranaga fighting Ishido in the battlefield then a camera zoomed in a flying ramen noodles for 4 minutes.

[@rohanasuthkar9543]

Zack Snyder actually made a samurai short film and it’s on KZbin

[@judgedrekk2981]

Zack Snyder's Skyrim when the dragon born shouted at the bandit leader time slows f u s r o d a h ! ! as a wave of energy impacts the bandit then the bandit king flies back then time slows mid flight as he hits the back wall, camera zooms to show blood on the wall where his head hit slowly the bandit crumples like a ragdoll then time resumes as he falls to the ground DEAD!

[@WhiteLivesMatterPL]

Blackthorne was one of the best products from Blizzard

[@KillZoneHart1]

I can actually picture the slow mo piss. With slow mo reaction shots in between

[@anthonynehoda2064]

Even without Snyder 3rd episode was cringe AF, especially at the end, literally ruined immersion

[@tonyraju631]

Zack Snyder is one of the directors who never Touched a DC comic and Wanting to adapt everything Watchmen like but with Bland characters .

[@mabusestestament]

Incorrect, he read lots of DC comics.

[@tonyraju631]

Lmao 🤣 how can you know You his Wife or something .

[@mabusestestament]

@@tonyraju631 Then… how can you know he never touched a DC comic, you his wife or something 🤣 It’s not difficult to know, just look it up.

[@slyc5920]

A 17 year old in a 50 year old man's body.

[@guyvizard549]

Right? The way he directs is how I THOUGHT I would direct a movie... when I was a teenager. Then I grew up. It's almost inspirational. Almost.

[@todd8398]

Jeez, seeing clip of him on JRE, he makes me think of Quentin Tarentino with ADHD. Which sounds redundant, but there you go.

[@robertdouble559]

That's offensive to 17 years old. I'd say he's more like an 11 year old. And not a particularly smart 11 year old.

[@tylermeyer2163]

Snyder is Michael Bay if Michael Bay sniffed his own farts for a living.

[@doublep1980]

Absolutely! Michael Bay said once in an interview and I paraphrase here: "... I make what you would call pop-corn movies, you watch them, eat your pop-corn, turn your brain off, have a good time for couple of hours. And that's absolutely fine, sometimes you want to watch something like that, sometimes you want something more artistic." Snyder on the other hand, thinks he's making ''art'' and is an ''auteur'' or something.

[@billybarnett9518]

You mean the same Bay who said "They'll see my movies anyway"?

[@marinejcksn1]

Michael Bay is the Francis Ford Coppola of Zach Snyders The Rock is better than anything Zach Snyder could ever make if he had unlimited funds and a million years

[@RafitoOoO]

Michael Bay is way better than Snyder. He even got The Rock to play an actual character. They can't be compared at all.

[@marcbraun5342]

@@doublep1980Exactly, Michael Bay knows what he's doing and for what audience and what mood, plus he makes a profit out of it, so everything is fine. It starts to get awkward when you want it to be something more. The same sh*t with the Battlefield 1 dev that tried to change history and claimed that women had to fight in WW1, if that guy just said it's multiplayer and everyone should choose how they want to look like, no one would have had a problem. The problem comes from delusion.

[@calfowler6838]

Well the 2 main reasons they don't have super heroes kill is 1. They would be killers in the eyes of police and society..so basically criminals 2. They wouldn't be able to sell the hero/ villian storyline to you if the villians are dead

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

The number-one reason is because heroes used to kill but it became too difficult to come up with new villains for a monthly (or even weekly) publication. After that, they began to find moral reasons for it, but a refusal to kill is not really a good thing. In Batman comics, it's often explored that his refusal to put down the bad guys continually causes more harm but he's too broken to do the deed himself - what I despise is when they have him save villains from other righteous retribution.

[@harlannguyen4048]

​@@WhiteManOnCampusThis was explored recently in tthe comics when Ghostmaker showed up.

[@kool4209]

Lmfao you’re re tarded aren’t you. 1. Human law is not above Gods law. You have an absolute right to defend your life by any means necessary. 😂😂😂😂 Hence “Stand Your Ground”….. humans have that but Superhero’s who work intermittently with the police don’t? 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 2. You can easily sell the villains. One off universes are how things began. One director would get his run and kill off the people. Then it would wipe and another would come in. That’s what caused Crisis on Infinite Earths. Kill off the villain. You’ve only used the same 1-2 for the last 40 years. By that same logic any “villain” that dies by proxy is what……..? Just unable to be used again? 😂😂😂 two face died in Dark Knight……you telling me the next director can’t recast the role? 😂😂😂😂

[@dr.matthewhertert310]

uhhh plenty of super (anti) heroes kill. punisher, wolverine, deadpool… in fact the only one i can think of who is hardcore about NOT killing is matt murdock.

[@mabusestestament]

Only an idiot would think Superman is in the wrong for killing Zod.

[@filipeduarte9727]

I wasn't even been able to finish Rebel Moon.

[@highwaytoheaven99]

Being a kid is thinking "Wow, superheroes are so cool!". Being a teenager is thinking "Wow, superheroes are DUUUMB! They should KILL people! Killing is COOL!". Being an adult is thinking "Wow, superheroes are so cool!". Zack Snyder is a teenager, thinking he's being inovative, challenging and original in a world of adults.

[@Cimo8]

....Just say you didn't watch the movie because that wasn't the message made.

[@TheRockerX]

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder how a guy that's almost 60 yrs old now still has the creative sensibilities of an edgy 14 yr old kid.

[@jackinthebox301]

@@Cimo8...just say you didn't hear Zack's own reasoning behind the impetus for Batman killing in BvS.

[@Cimo8]

@@jackinthebox301 His reasoning is irrelevant because once again that not what happens in the movie

[@Cimo8]

@@TheRockerX Funny because comics are for children

[@ge2719]

snyder "i'm want to see batman when he has no choice but to kill" batman "we'll they've got the kryptonite i want, so....bang bang bang bang"

[@gullijons9135]

Avatar got big because of one thing: 3D, that was the movie that launched the 3D hype we had to tolerate for a whole decade afterwards. If there's one positive that came out of covid it was that we are not forced to sit through more of the 3D crap. It's still made but at least you can see the movies without that now.

[@arnoldjungherz2804]

3D was mostly gone before covid.

[@BazztheBazz]

As a former Snyder-bro myself, nothing has utterly eroded my enjoyment of his movies, or my willingness to forgive their flaws, more than Snyder himself talking about his movies.

[@givmi_more_w9251]

'Never meet your heroes, kid, because heroes are people. And people are shit.'

[@idawg7332]

Yep I defended his dc movies hell I even defended sucker punch but rebel moon and seeing him talk more has really made me rethink k my opinion of him

[@ianhowe338]

You don’t want the “Batman doesn’t kill” rule to be carried so far that you have to manipulate the universe to such a degree that no matter what Batman does, the bad guys live. Like in the old gi joe cartoon, when they’d shoot down a Cobra helicopter and the pilot would fall with a parachute and safely land. Like, how did he not get chopped up by the helicopter rotors? Who knows? At a certain point, if Batman throws enough dudes through plate glass windows, and nobody dies… It’s not morality it’s just luck. Batman should never consciously decide to kill someone in the mainline continuity. If you want to do an Elseworlds story where Batman loses his shit and finally kills the Joker…cool. But only in an Elseworlds story. Also, I also don’t understand the physics of whipping a refrigerator sized crate with a batling hook, but aside from that one stupid thing, I still think that fight scene is pretty sick. Although, I’m not really even sure how much credit Snyder deserves for the warehouse fight. At some point I watched a behind the scenes video about that scene and not only was the whole fight mapped out by the stunt coordinator and second unit director, based on what I saw, it looked like Snyder wasn’t even involved with the camera blocking. For all I know, Snyder just told the second unit to go shoot a fight scene. I really didn’t see Snyder DO anything.

[@todd8398]

Fun trivia: per "children's cartoon" rules at one point in the US, anyone shown jumping out of an aviation vehicle had to be shown using parachutes. Anyone specifically jumping out of a helicopter had to be shown jumping clear of the blades. In the theatrical JL, at the end Batman picks up one of the parademon rifles and was just shooting parademons left and right. I guess Snyder skipped that day of "Batman rules" class. I get that Batman's facing a swarm of PDs and Steppenwolf and he's the only non-powered hero there, but c'mon Snyder, find a better way. I often wonder what would happen to Batman, while fighting 'roided up thugs or just ninja-ing up behind one and saying "boo", if any of them just simply died on the spot of a heart attack because of stress or shock?

[@Creativitys_Vanguard]

Zack Snyder showed up in a shirt with holes in it. He looked like he got up in the middle of the night to get some milk. Odd choice.

[@MrsMacLover]

Malk. Now with Vitamin R

[@shen5533]

He's trying so bad to be "excentric" and quirky

[@iHaveTheDocuments]

"he's just like me fr" It's what he's hoping we say

[@judgedrekk2981]

@@williamclayton2323 DUN DUN DUNNNNN!!! lolz!

[@Costas22]

It's not holes. It's black marks. It's the way the shirt is designed. If you weren't in the basement all day and had better internet connection, you would have noticed.

[@timflint25]

I'm not a Snyder fan boy but Drinker 100% took him out of context. He literally said "...but Rebel Moon is a very niche movie and people probably wouldn't have left their house and gone to the theater to pay for it, that's the magic of streaming is the convenience so my niche movie is capable of reaching more eyeballs than it ever would traditionally". However I 100% agree with the Batman thing. His whole argument was that Batman would have to kill in some no-win scenario, an epic moment that challenges the character and he has to survive that moral mistake. Yet in BvS that doesn't happen, Batman just runs people over for now reason 😅

[@Wlof25]

In BvS he kills people who are trying to kill him. That's not killing people for no reason.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

​@@Wlof25he kills people who are trying to kill him. That's not for no reason. You say that as if this is the first time anyone tried to kill Batman. Batman himself wouldn't see that as justification.

[@Wlof25]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 That's ridicilous, because there is not just one Batman. You realize that, right? There are many versions of Batman. Some kill and some don't. The first Batman, the actual source material, killed. Many movie Batmen killed too. Even Nolan's Batman who have the supposed no kill rule killed.

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

@@Wlof25 yes. If you go back to first appearances he kills. Was armed with a pistol. The wasn't my argument. My point was, if your justification for Batman killing is great back guy tried to kill him first, then that justifies every superhero killing every villain. Batman himself (I the vast majority of his iterations) wouldn't treat that as reason enough. Try not to be rude next time. I know your pressed because you're a Snyder fan and you're defending him, but that doesn't mean you should abandon good manners.

[@Wlof25]

@@bjrnhalfhand2258 That doesn't logically follow. This Batman killing people when attacked doesn't mean that all and every Batman + all Superheroes are. That is some bad logic on your part. You said Batman wouldn't use that as a justification. He obviously did in BvS. Unless you are appealing to some other Batman. Why would some other version of Batman be relevant to this one? It makes no sense. And then I presented the counter argument that the first Batman killed, so your claim that Batman wouldn't use that as a justification has been refuted. I wasn't rude. i said that it's ridicilous and I explained why.

[@KosmicVader]

_”Simple Zack struggling to multiply by 10 is the only thing that brings me joy in life…”_ (Boogie) _”It’s Dirty Dozen, Seven Samurai and Star Wars in space…”_ (Simple Zack, Teenage Edgelord of Teenage Edgyness & Himbo Auteur describing “Rebel Moon”)

[@TheRealNormanBates]

_Never_ go full Autuerd.

[@darthhodges]

Avatar 2 was VERY aggressively advertised, that's why it did as well as it did (though I still haven't seen it). I have heard one source talk about it but not about the movie as a whole, about some interesting and unique things it does regarding how its spaceships and vehicles work compared to other sci-fi.

[@xxgil2]

I think what Snyder said has been taken out of context. I think he was referring to the reach of his streaming movies while giving a comparative metric with Barbie.

[@Slask7]

"He's the visionary filmmaker and the only reason his films were shit is because the studio interfere too much and he just wasn't allowed to fulfill his vision" Snyder's original films with full creative control: - Sucker Punch - Army of the dead - Rebel Moon.

[@janruudschutrups9382]

2:30 "Sit down with your girlfriend, watch Rebel Moon and then she doms you." ...

[@Pink.andahalf]

Dumps. Totally different situation.

[@janruudschutrups9382]

@@Pink.andahalf 🤫

[@LordVader1094]

That's if you're lucky.

[@finalfantasy50]

she starts to slap you saying "you think rebel moon is good?!"

[@Dhomden]

Zack Snyder turned my gf into a dommy mommy Thanks Zack

[@EndlessVacuum]

It would be more respectable if James Cameron really did just make a 2 hour Avatar film that was nothing but those landscape shots he likes so much. That's clearly what he wants to do, he doesn't want to tell stories.

[@christophergirardi8145]

He's already doing that, the story for Avatar 2 was really thin

[@lawlietriver8869]

The first Avatar has to be one of the most overrated movies of all time. I remember seeing the trailer and instantly going: Ok, so this is Pocahontas only the story takes twice as long to tell for some reason. I will say seeing it in 3D was a visual joy for sure, but it had nothing to make me care about the characters. Disney Pocahontas already did it and they did it way better.

[@alexknox814]

​@lawlietriver8869 bro he literally steals the plot n story of another animated film called fern gully

[@petriew2018]

he mad a three hour version of just that called avatar 2 before you tell me i'm wrong, i dare you to even try and remember the plot of that movie....

[@KyLewin]

I think I remember what happened in Avatar 2. The blue guy had kids with the blue lady, the bad guy came back and was also blue, there were whales for some reason… things blew up… I think there was a kid that looked like a young Tarzan… one of the kids might have died… the blue people won. Bring on Avatar 3!

[@napoleonfeanor]

I'm blue dabadee dabadie

[@harlannguyen4048]

For anyone that still likes his Justice League movie, here's a relevant quote for you: "Let's be fair. You f_ckers can't control yourselves. You have to share your feelings immediately because if you felt them, it must be a good sign of good writing. It couldn't be bias, even if you give this a rewatch in a year and wonder WTF you were thinking. Which is kind of relevant. You had 4 years to tear apart Joostice League. You had 10 days to think on the Snyder Cut on top of tying your f_cking personalities to it. Because f_ck me, Zack Snyder's Justice League is going to age like the League of Nations." -Mauler in "Zack Snyder's Justice League: An Unbridled Rampage"

[@diegovegas3850]

One of my favorite videos

[@justinlast2lastharder749]

The Snyder Cut wasn't bad...but Ezra Miller really tries his hardest to make it unwatchable. Always hated his flash. With the Theatrical...I Watched it sober and turned it off when Steppenwolf came on screen...then a few months later I watched it absolutely obliterated and loved it. That movie is a masterpiece if you smoke enough weed and drink enough liquor to turn your brain completely off.

[@thisisnotachannel]

Mauler was incorrect... I know for a fact that I'm not the only person who genuinely enjoyed Snyder's work with DC. His other projects (aside from "Watchmen") I'm not particularly fond of... except maybe "300". But in my opinion, he did an excellent job with the DC properties he was entrusted with. And I feel this way several years after ZSJL was released... I just finished watching his entire DC "trilogy" the other day. If anything... I like them MORE. Judging by the content of the video and the comments section, I am in the minority here... but I'm used to that. Still doesn't invalidate my opinion, or those of the other fans. Not the first shit take I've heard from him, though.

[@petriew2018]

@@justinlast2lastharder749 yes.... it was.... all the story issues aside, technically it's a clusterfuck of bad cinematography, horrid pacing, baffling sound design and a laundry list of every conceivable kind of padding one can fit into a movie.

[@wjzav1971]

@@thisisnotachannelI have to disagree hard with "excellent job with DC properties he was entrusted with" given Zack Snyder's disrespectful treatment of both Batman's and Superman's characters and what they stand for.

[@SheyD78]

Woefully self indulgent I think is where Snyder is now, and it's going to take at least 2 or more hard flops for him to realise people aren't dumb enough to put up with that.

[@mefikFS]

Drinker forgot that extended version mean that they will include chorus singing...

[@lukeshioshio]

Actually it's a violent R-rated version of the film. It's not an extended edition it's a different movie.

[@grunt1688]

If Snyder wanted to make a "Batman that kills" movie he should have made it about Thomas Wayne. That version is basically everything Snyder would have wanted but I guess his ego got in the way.

[@paha4209]

It´s pretty clear where Snyder got his Math lessons from: Scott Steiner! "Gore is a character" - If Chris Gore was a character in Rebel Moon i would watch that movie.

[@justjoe4775]

Not even Steiner Math can make sense out of Snyder's box office "calculations". You know they say all directors are created equal but you look at Uwe Boll & Zack Snyder & you can see that statement is not true.

[@ultraviolet540]

A freaking ikea chair

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

I always felt underwelmed by Synder's films. Even his very first major film, the Dawn of the Dead remake, felt rather hollow and superficial, especially when you directly compare it to George A. Romero's original film. It's a comparison one can make between cotton candy verses a chocolate cake. The former is completely ethereal and gives you an immediate sugar high (in that film, the only thing going for it is the scariness of the idea of fast, running zombies [though it makes no logical sense that reanimated dead would be as fast/faster than living humans, especially following degradation/rotting of muscles and nerves/brain matter]) but also a crash and still-empty stomach because it had nothing meaningful behind it. I'm not a fan of the whole "zombies = consumerism" theme of the original film, but at least it had some actual themes and you got invested in the characters, their personalities, and their survival, compared to the cardboard cutouts of Dawn of the Dead remake. Each of his subsequent films felt like the embodiment of the trope of a brainless hyper-flashy popcorn film with little substance behind it. It worked with 300 because it was based on a flashy comic book, but didn't work with the Justice League films because those superhero characters have serious themes and history behind them.

[@nurse0857]

Yeah, Dawn of the Dead was a solid meh. The opening is one of my favorite movie intros though.

[@JadeRunner]

Making zombies run fast is the laziest shortcut approach to trying to make a scary zombie movie. The whole point of zombies is that they're a minimal threat in small numbers and that causes you to let your guard down, then before you know it they've cornered you. Also the idea is that just one bite is all it takes. Even if there's just one of them and it's dumb and slow, there's always that fear in the back of your mind not to get too close to those teeth because once you do it's game over. When they can run and have super strength the bite isn't really any scarier than the fists or the feet. Not saying there aren't some good running zombie movies (Train to Busan for instance) but if you're adapting a slow-moving zombie story and your first thought is "let's make em run fast!" again, that's just lazy.

[@JadeRunner]

I agree with you about the "consumerist" themes of OG Dawn of the Dead. One of the disappointing things about growing up and becoming educated on things like politics was realising George Romero was something of a Leftoid and all his zombie movies I loved as a kid are actually pushing messages I disagree with and just never noticed it at the time. You know the message of Diary of the Dead (which is terrible btw) is actually that citizen journalism and citizens having the ability to film anything and immediately post it online for the world to see is an objectively _bad_ thing and society would be better off trusting the government to govern what information we're allowed access to? 😳😬

[@timdehoog5584]

I always find his obsession with slowmo cheap. I saw 300 back in the day and thought it was ridiculous. His Rebel Moon is Star Wars from Wish with some Warhammer 40k mixed in.

[@smilingjackal42]

It’s amazing how Zack Snyder has pissed away all the goodwill he’d built up since his premature departure from Justice League. His “frat house philosopher” style of movie making has always left a bad taste in my mouth.

[@Cimo8]

My ass😂 you people never liked him to begin with please stop with the concern trolling

[@WhiteManOnCampus]

@@Cimo8 ...None of that was concern trolling. He was entirely dunking on Snyder, saying that he always thought Snyder sucks but was amazed that Snyder managed to piss away all of his audience's goodwill. I understand why you're a Snyder fanboy, since you can't even parse two lines.

[@floridamann1109]

​@@Cimo8how does your throat feel holding all that Snyder meat in it ?

[@Cimo8]

@@WhiteManOnCampus Oh... My bad then.

[@loremaster6828]

I like his films but holy crap army of the dead was terrible

[@cypher1419]

The one film I do like from Synder is Dawn of the Dead, which was written by James Gunn.

[@wjzav1971]

What about 300?

[@bjrnhalfhand2258]

​@wjzav1971 guess he didn't like 300. That wasn't written by Snyder either. His better works are written by other people. Shame his visual style is out of date.

[@awesomehpt8938]

One thing that I liked about rebel moon was the costume and set designs. I really like all the different aliens and stuff. Taken in isolation it would make for an intriguing world to explore. It’s just that I don’t really care about anything else, characters and story included.

[@aethertech]

Rebel Moon was one of the worst things I've watched.

[@mattperkins261]

Sooooo you're saying I shouldn't watch it?

[@aethertech]

You should not. @@mattperkins261

[@9theaman]

Wow. What a hot take. So brave of you to say that.

[@PurpleBoi28000]

The most obnoxious part of that interview was when Joe Rogan responded to Zack by saying "This no kill thing feels so ridiculous the way he operates" yes the no kill rule is definitely the most ridiculous thing about fucking BATMAN

[@Deeznutsyourmom]

I’m fan of Zack, but like no, Barbie beat Oppenheimer. And as a fan of his, rebel moon was 💩

[@mabusestestament]

If you’re a fan then it’s better to wait until the real version has come out.

[@mabusestestament]

@@MaggioWhetstone Incorrect. He could not have just created his 6 hour director’s cut of Rebel Moon and just release that, as Netflix wanted what was released first: two pg-13 movies. It was a compromise Snyder had to agree with so he could make his version, the 6 hours total hard R Rebel Moon, which will be released some months from now. That’s the real thing, not these versions we get first. So I’m not gonna judge until his version comes out.

[@mabusestestament]

@@MaggioWhetstone He can’t just release his director’s cuts. Netflix wanted two pg-13 movies. The only way for him to make and release his hard R 6 hour Rebel Moon movie (2 parts of 3 hours each) is by also making the two shorter and very different pg-13 versions and release them a couple of months before his director’s cuts versions are released.

[@mabusestestament]

@@MaggioWhetstone BvS ultimate edition was easily better. The real, R-rated director’s cut of Rebel Moon will be much more different from the PG-13 compromised cut than BvS ultimate edition was from its theatrical cut. It won’t just simply be extended/ more fleshed out.

[@ephraimwinslow]

I don't think there's a single creative left in Los Angeles whose mythos I still buy into. Speilberg? Ready Player One. Ridley Scott? Prometheus. I could go on, but it's not necessary. TL;DR? The internet will ultimately force people to divorce artists from their art... because all artists eventually out themselves as douchebags and/or lose the knack.

[@Jepze158]

-Prometheus He was seen as an lucky hack long before that movie.

[@ephraimwinslow]

@@Jepze158 The guy's got: Gladiator, the Martian, and Bladerunner under his belt. If it was *all* luck up until Prometheus? That's like... find a full *box* of winning lottery tickets *on top* of an oil well luck.

[@MrJustinOtis]

Spielberg had some clunkers long before RP1. Sugarland Express and 1941, for example. Regarding Ridley Scott, frankly, I think he's got alzheimers or is suffering from dementia.

[@johnmcternan4157]

Scott's in recent years has made tons of great films but because they don't appeal to the KZbin pop culture crowd, they never get a mention and his reputation is trashed. the Counsellor, All the money in the world, American Gangster, Last Duel, every year he makes a film and every single one of his films has something of merit even the average ones. The same with his deceased brother Tony Scott too.

[@ephraimwinslow]

@@johnmcternan4157 I see you're still subscribed to his mythos. Enjoy them diminishing returns.

[@FalkFlak]

that's funny because I thought the myth was damaged with 300 and was completely off the cliff with Sucker Punch.

[@AshSchultzArt]

Sure, Batman doesn’t kill, but he’ll beat you into a drooling vegetable

[@matttriano]

Snyder is a tall child

[@cristinawilligs]

i believe that Zac Snyder's script for rebel moon got a diversity treatment, one of those disclosed by FilmTreat and that he wanted to avoid the main storytelling with his artistic shots

[@Alexanderiii]

Batman doesn't kill. People who don't accept this don't know Batman.

[@jogasinghkhalsa5526]

1989 micheal keaton batman killed. Christian bale batman killed. Ben affleck batman killed. They all had to in the situation they were in

[@Bonesawisready926]

Batman doesn't murder. How he killed in The Dark Knight is acceptable because he was put into an unwinnable situation and that was the only way to save Gordon's kid. He should never purposefully or recklessly be putting people in mortal danger though.

[@daneoman1000]

I am more annoyed Batfleck used guns, Batman should not use guns. He won’t use the weapon that killed his parents.

[@Ishaan_A]

honestly, ya Batman doesn't kill but I would be up for a story where Batman has gone down a path where he's now forced to kill his enemies. In BvS, I hated how they never mentioned why Batman has now suddenly started killing his foes or even Superman addressing that fact to Bruce, he just does it.

[@kdog3908]

I don't see anything wrong with the basic idea Zack is putting forward. 'What if?' questions are interesting. I just don't think Zack does 'what if?' questions well. At all.

[@rael2099]

A few years from now: Drinker's Chasers - The Death of the Villeneuve Myth.

[@SubZero-hs9xc]

Villeneuve is genuely good director, Zack Snyder no

[@beowulfsrevenge4369]

That's some convoluted math there, Zach. With just one huge glaring problem. This movie was never in theaters, so it didn't actually make that money or sell that many tickets.

[@johndurham6172]

He's just such a genius that nobody gets him 🙄😒

[@electricmiragemedia]

I really liked his energy, so I can understand how he keeps getting movies. But he definitely could learn to check himself

[@justinmadrid8712]

You don’t understand Hollywood if you think directors are chosen for their “energy”.

[@brianpratt3224]

Keaton's Batman killed people quite a bit. He knocked a thug down a bell tower in the first movie and in the Batman Returns he sticks a bomb in the pants of one of the Penguins thugs. Which then blows up. You see him blow up. How is that not killing someone.

[@mabusestestament]

He also killed in the some comics.

[@brianpratt3224]

Yup. I don't think people thinking he didn't kill people have read the comic and not watched any movies before 2000 @@mabusestestament

[@connor9829]

After he stuck the bomb to the guy he then fucking SMILED!!! That's not batman that's the joker🤣

[@thestoicsoliloquies4041]

When he first started in comics Batman carried a gun and shot criminals. Batman was the first superhero to kill a criminal with a gun. Once Robin showed up, the gun disappeared and the "no kill" policy was instituted.

[@Wlof25]

The true source material. I hate when people are dogmatic about "source material" and cry when Batman kills, but he killed from the very beginning.

[@callmejacob3234]

@@Wlof25 The no kill rule is what Batman an iconic character it redefined his character. Batman hasn't killed since the 30's. Even DC admits it was a mistake for him to kill.

[@Wlof25]

@@callmejacob3234 So what? That doesn't mean that Batman cannot kill, ever. All you people have is dogma.

[@9theaman]

​@@callmejacob3234lol. The no kill rule was implement because studios wanted to appeal to kids and they were also quickly running out of villains because you know that were dead and couldn't kill thousands of innocent people again. All in all it was a so called "rule" implemented to make studios make more money because they were too lazy to create a new idea. They wanted to keep churning this Joker comics. And now these idiots think that it's some sort of character assassination if Batman kills.

[@victorm5890]

I think if Zack made a Star wars movie, at least someone could die, maybe that's the only difference?

[@karlydoc]

He did make a Star Wars story,he called it "Rebel Moon."

[@marcogenovesi8570]

Rebel moon is his Star Wars

[@billybarnett9518]

He wanted Rebel Moon to be a Star Wars movie, but the rumor was Lucasfilm wanted him to use established characters and Snyder didn't.

[@thomaspunt2646]

Zack Snyder is just pretentious Micheal Bay who wants to turn Batman into the Punisher.

[@tobeornottobe5611]

That is the best way to describe Snyder as a filmmaker I've ever seen. It's incredible how much that makes sense.

[@josephkhazaneh8453]

Michael

[@tequilamockingbird758]

He probably would make a great Punisher.

[@jrick5322]

You just hit a 500 yard home run

[@ikenosis8160]

The truth oozes from this comment. Spot on.

[@alonsomunoz4096]

In BvS it is hinted at that Bruce went dark because he lost a Robin (possibly Jason Todd) by Joker's actions. How I remember that after watching it only once, I don't know. So not saying it can't happen, but a) do you really want to tell that story in a budding cinematic universe? and b) you want that big change on Bats to take place offscreen? That could have been like a whole movie and would explain Batman's descent into darkness, at least.

[@benjaminskylerhill8276]

All insults aside, Zack Snyder seems like a genuinely nice guy.

[@Beatdropmagazine9157]

Yeah he really does to be honest enjoy his interviews cause he seems genuine. But l just get frustrated by his unwillingness to grow and mature and a storyteller...and never really any criticism to improve his craft. I think he's one of the best visual directors out there, but if he could just put more time into improving his storytelling, and dial down a bit on the he'd be slow motion he'd be significantly better.

[@Sniperkitten971]

Listening to his interview on the JRE was painful. "Uuuuh" "like" "you know" every 3 words. He may br genuinely nice, but I'm not sure he has what it takes to actually write good stories.

[@Vidusik]

Batman killing people in BvS never bothered me, because in the contex of the movie it made sense. Batman at that point was older, more cynical and fed up with seeing no end when fighting with criminals. He's pissed off and that's why he kills: at that point he thinks that's the only way to achieve something. The dialogue between him and Alfed explained Batman's state of mind and for me it made sense.

[@John-fk2ky]

Still seems kind of weak. We’ve seen other versions of Bruce being old. Not older but actually old. He might be less concerned about collateral damage harming hostiles, but the only example of him killing as an old man that I can think of is him killing the Joker in The Dark Knight Returns.

[@nont18411]

What didn’t make sense, however, is that since Batman is comfortable with killing people now, why did he let Joker and Lex Luthor live?

[@docsavage8640]

It made sense because in no way shape or form were those characters Batman and Superman. At least not ours. Maybe they should have just said "This is Earth-Shit where everything is ultraviolet and stupid"

[@Vidusik]

@@docsavage8640 To be honest; superhero movies are mostly silly and stupid. Even The Dark Knight, that is praised by many as a masterpiece, is filled with plot holes and people being dumb as hell (especially the cops). But what I really don't understand why every interpretation of Batman or Superman needs to be exactly the same as the previous one. And it's not like Batman killing bad guys in BvS was something we haven't seen before; Keaton's Batman was killing bad guys in Batman Returns and even take it as a joke... yet nobody complained about that. As for Superman; the funny thing is that Superman Returns was following the same formula as Donner's Superman and fans complained the movie looked dated. Then Snyder made something different and fans complained again. :) It's like... make up your mind already. And I'm not blindly defending Snyder; his movies are too ambitious for their own good and Snyder often gets carried away with this style to the point it gets irritating, but I don't see them as better or worse than the rest of superhero schlock in the last 15 years.

[@Moveplaylift]

exactly @@Vidusik

[@geofft.1959]

Everyone talks Rebel and Justice but AotD was so bad everyone forgets that part of the conversation.

[@Bonesawisready926]

I literally see no value that Snyder can bring to screen. I used to think if he was just a DP he'd be amazing, but using that trash lens constantly has rid me of that notion. He's an auteur with no positive qualities. At least with Michael Bay he actually has incredible camera composition (the shots in Pain and Gain and Bad Boys 2 with the camera going between different rooms for example) and has made pretty good films (The first two Bad Boys, The Island, Pain and Gain, the first Transformers, The Rock, haven't seen it but heard Benghazi was pretty good etc.) Everything good about Snyder came from someone else and he just slapped his name on it.

[@ii-mp1sp]

I don't know, I liked it. I've always believed that DC should be the darker and more violent equivalent of Marvel, and Justice League 2021 is the best DC movie since The Dark Knight.

[@mabusestestament]

Not really, Bay just took Tony Scott’s style and slapped his name on it.

[@Harmytwo]

I think we need Zack Snyder's cut of that interview about batman. It's him saying everything very slow and we get some very slow flashbacks.

[@Jasper_Silva]

I believe Zach desperately needs someone to help him write and co-direct. Some of his stuff, particularly action scenes and aesthetics are amazing, like in the mentioned Batman fight scene when he's rescuing Martha in BvS. It's a nice looking, cool scene, but it's meaningless, and in an awful movie. To take an example from videogames: Yoko Taro has a similar track record as Snyder in a way, he made some weak/flawed games in the past, but with amazing, creative characters and very strong writing. When SquareEnix tasked him to do NieR Automata he co-operated with Platinum Studio which is outstanding at doing action design and gameplay (while being weak to average at writing). Together they made a legendary game with great writing and gameplay design. Yoko Taro worked in the industry for long and is respected for his talents, but he knew he had weak spots and let Platinum work in the things he was bad at. Given Zach's class of director, and how ego-driven that position is in Hollywood, this kind of cooperative work is rare, so sadly he might be a lost cause.

[@JadeRunner]

Agreed. I can't remember which filmmaker duo it was - maybe the Coen Brothers, I'm not sure - but I read an interview with a scriptwriting duo where they explicitly stated that one of them is really good at coming up with the overall concept and outline of a story, but terrible at dialogue and character writing, whereas his partner was the opposite and so together they write really good scripts because they each succeed where the other fails. It does indeed seem to be that the problem is ego. Too many of them don't want to share the limelight.

[@c1ph3rpunk]

Could you imagine having to be the ones editing the extended cut of Rebel Moon? Just look for the building with firehoses pumping in a combo of anti-depressants and cocaine cut with meth and Valium.

[@Lemminjoose]

He's one of the most overrated guys in Hollywood.

[@ffs55]

Great points by all as usual -- Disparu and MauLer always offers solid insights and laughs!

[@delix787]

Critical is never going to leave Chris alone. 💀

[@pyroromancer]

love it every time Drinker jabs at Stuckman

[@DirectorSmiley]

I unapologetically agree with Zack here. Batman killed in his first comic. The comics code shaped a no kill Batman, but even then Burton, Schumacher and Nolan had their Batmen kill with stupid leeway. It's only when Snyder openly admits it that people take issue.

[@mabusestestament]

It’s also only when Snyder makes a movie in which Superman kills Zod that they take issue.

[@grey195]

Ahh the cultist is here

[@EvilDoresh]

Counter-argument: Nobody remembers Golden Age Batman. To normies Batman started with the Adam West show

[@leandrocastello309]

Mnot exactly, people take issue because _contemporary_ batman has had the no kill rule codified as the very core of his hero identity. People want the batman of the comics, not the batman of 1930's comics. I dont like it. I think the no kill rule is abused and streched beyond the bounds of insanity, but if your batman doesnt have it, its not batman. Simple as that.

[@DirectorSmiley]

@grey195 I just know Batman has killed in comics dating back to his original issue. Nothing cultist about it. It's a fact.

[@miwe3719]

How does he keep getting greenlights when all his movies suck and flop?

[@mabusestestament]

Because there are enough people who watch and like his movies and enough of his movies don’t flop but are successful enough?

[@Joseantonio-op5oc]

His wife seems to be a very capable producer and manager. In fact she was already a producer when Zack was just doing commercials and music videos

[@vladdebrancovan7011]

The man can’t even string a coherent sentence or thought… it is pretty embarrassing

[@just_blumpin_off]

If you take my experience with it it took 4 attempts to make it through Rebel Moon as i kept falling asleep. So 90 million/4=22.5 million. Sorry to bust Zacks bubble

[@greebj]

We can continue the reverse-Snyder math 20% of views were people prob clicked on it thinking it was a new star wars film (18 million) 10% accidentally clicked on it then fell asleep or got distracted by something more interesting on their way to the toilet and just left it running in the background (9 million) 22.5-18-9 = it would have got negative views and millions in cinema losses from people demanding refunds

[@ThelcarusWing]

I've always viewed Batman's no kill rule as an ethical one for him, not a moral one. He doesn't kill not because he believes it's wrong, but because his whole mission is about protecting people from those who abuse power and strength to make victims of others, and killing would mean he's abusing the same power he dedicated himself to fighting. If he allowed himself to kill, he would be just another case of unchecked power. You can see various versions of his character all follow this kind of mentality. Injustice is the most obvious example, but there are also cases like the movie where Savage used his contingency plans on the League, and Batman was entirely unapologetic and stated he would have done the same thing again regardless. Another instance is the movie Under the Red Hood where he expresses this sentiment (although there is a more prominent moral element in that one.) The point is that Batman's character us dependent on his no kill rule, because without it, most of his conflict with others like Jason or Joker are immediately null and void.

[@HarryBuddhaPalm]

I can't believe Zack Snyder was even allowed to make anything after "Sucker Punch". That should've been the end of his career right there.

[@hughtube5154]

Or even 300. It was clear from that he had no idea about storytelling, character, lore. "Sorry, hunchback, dwarf-guy. You can't join us because we fight in a phalanx where we all need to lock shields to repel the enemy." Enemy arrives. "Let's fight freestyle, one-on-one! We're only outnumbered 300:1! Every man for himself!"

[@hughtube5154]

Or even 300. It was clear from that he had no idea about storytelling, character, lore. "Sorry, hunchback, dwarf-guy. You can't join us because we fight in a phalanx where we all need to lock shields to repel the enemy." Enemy arrives. "Let's fight freestyle, one-on-one! We're only outnumbered 300:1! Every man for himself!"

[@kool4209]

@@hughtube5154you do realize those are two different attack/defense formations 😂

[@PGHEngineer]

That should've been the point where he was ditched by mainstream Hollywood and spent the rest of his career doing cheesy pawn movies.

[@9theaman]

Nice of you to show your jealousy for everyone to see. What did you accomplish in your life for you to tell others what to do? You are a nobody.

[@MravacKid]

Normal people suspected he was a joke since that first Superman travesty, and it got more and more obvious as the DCU movies progressed. This is just the fanboys finally getting it too.

[@daviru02]

Zach is the guy who loves the smell of his own farts

[@chrisbenavides3176]

Just because a studio messes with your film, doesn't mean you are a visionary director.

[@dcalltheway610]

Stop ✋️ Batman has killed in every movie going back to '66. So what the Fuck are you talking about? - when Batmans first appeared, he had a 45. Strapped to his leg.

[@EvilDoresh]

I'm pretty sure the only one that died in the '66 version was the heroic dolphin

[@dcalltheway610]

@@EvilDoresh nope, Batman kicked one of the Penguins Goons, and he vanished, Batman and Robin talk. So he's not going to be coming back?

[@mrscruffles801]

This whole "hero's shouldn't kill" thing is very modern, almost nobody said this before 2010 or so, now it's like the law or soemthing.

[@Takeshi357]

I kind of realized a long time ago that Zack Snyder and JJ Abrams both suck for the exact same reasons.

[@wjzav1971]

Trying to be too smart for their own good?

[@Takeshi357]

@@wjzav1971 To put it in very general terms, yes. They both have an extremely superficial understanding of themes. Snyder himself went on record to basically admit that he thinks Watchmen is "adult" because it has nudity in it. And if I remember correctly, in the making of material for Rise of Skywalker, JJ Abrams basically made it clear that he thinks "themes" means some visual homages. They have the mindset of fucking children.

[@magicjohnson3121]

Nah Abrams is way worse

[@kpsk8031]

There are as many Snyder fans as there are Shen Mue fans. The loudest and tiniest fandom imaginable.

[@power279]

i hope u dont cry and blame us when superman gunn flop😂

[@Cloverfield3749]

I did not enjoy Rebel Moon at all and I found Army of The Dead even worse, but I'm still glad Hollywood has director's like Zack Snyder. He is hit or miss but he seems genuine and has fun making the movies. Also on an unrelated note, what's with the Chris Stuckman bullying lately? Feels like the past few months this have had small digs at him out of the blue

[@user-pr8fo2ml8i]

But to be fair. He is a cat with unpopular views and on top of he is father coping up with his daughter's death.

[@imanoldurango8213]

Netflix doesn’t even try to recommend me rebel moon. That’s how you know even they don’t like it

[@gloweye]

That copium concentration is so high that I'm almost starting to think I'm good at First Person Shooters. And there's an entire ocean between me and Zack.

[@marcbraun5342]

The "not killing" part is very well depicted in Under the Red Hood, which is an awesome story to begin with so very well worth a read. I would spoiler a great part if I would go in any more detail, so I won't. Let's just say it adds a lot to the character, the story and the world the way they got to that point there, since it would actually be easy for a guy with his talents, you'll love it. There's also a great movie made out of it if you want to watch instead of reading the comic.

[@Wlof25]

I watched the animated movie. What a terrible story. Todd could have killed Joker at any time if he wanted. Joker hearing Batman's name but not reacting to it. Batman chasing Todd/Red Hood is like in a video game. Follow to a checkpooint and then a cut scene happens. Todd was like planning literally every single step. It was silly.

[@wangbot47]

Hey, to be fair, Wonder Woman has always been a killer. She's easily the most murderous member of the Justice League and it's not close.

[@danemilybaxter1030]

That JRE interview featured a near pornographic amount of Ego stroking. Zach Snyder talking about how important Rebel Moon is, constantly discussing his art abilities and a large amount of conversation about Greek soldiers having sex with one another. Between his weird request for his ex wife to get naked in front of their son for a scene in watchmen and his strange insistence on sexuality and nudity being in his Hard R Rebel Moon he just kinda comes off like a creep. Any respect I had for him before the interview has quickly dissipated by the end.

[@mabusestestament]

Why would it be weird to have sexuality and nudity in his hard R Heavy Metal inspired Rebel Moon movie?

[@danemilybaxter1030]

@@mabusestestament the way he described it in the interview was weird, if he wants to have it the movie, that’s his own call because I don’t really care since I’m likely not gonna watch it 🤷‍♂️. That was one small aspect of the overall weirdness he brought into that interview, but I really don’t think some sex scenes are gonna make a movie that most people didn’t seem to like any better, yet he makes it seem like everything will just be far superior because there’s gratuitous sex & violence. None of that can fix a bad script with an over reliance on Slow motion shots.

[@awesomehpt8938]

Zack Snyder is one of those people that has his own cult following but doesn’t actually deserve all the hype.

[@churblefurbles]

Snyder only works when the entire thing is already pre storyboarded like with 300.

[@sci-fihighschool]

A lost art of modern writing in pop culture is pushing the signature principles of a franchise/character without breaking them. In addition to Dark Knight, see Star Trek DS9. Those writers pushed Roddenberry’s utopian vision by going to dark places -which wasn’t everyone’s cup of tea- BUT they always found a way back to the light. You generally DON’T see that in modern Trek (Picard Season 3 is the exception). This modern kind of iconoclasm either comes from lack of talent, lack of understanding of themes, or blatant disregard for the audience. And it’s probably a combination of all three.