Dropped Frames Special - Final Fantasy VII Spoilercast

SPOILER ALERT: Final Fantasy 7 Remake, OG Final Fantasy 7, and the extended compilation games and other media are all being spoiled! You have been warned!
Check us out where podcasts are available: droppedfram.es
The reunion is finally here! Joining regular hosts itmeJP and Cohh Carnage are level 4 (and beyond) FF7 theorists Maximilian_DOOD and Strippin! We go extremely deep on the remake, the OG FF7, Crisis Core, Advent Children, and a plethora of other related media as we try to figure out what just happened in the remake as well as what might happen in the sequel games.
Like the video? Watch us live every Wednesday 1PM ET: / itmejp
/ ezekiel_iii
/ cohhcarnage
Guest For This Week:
/ maximilian_dood YT: ‪@Maximilian_Dood‬
/ strippin YT: ‪@strippin‬
#DroppedFrames #FinalFantasy7Remake #Spoilercast

[@gustogusto4519]

JP: What do they call the next one? Max: Rebirth The Prophet has spoken.

[@remcreate90]

Max with easy allies - Cult leader trying to sell them on his 4 tiers of sephiroth Max with dropped frames - damn these guys practically live in level 4

[@blackwidow7804]

Its time to ascend to lv 5 lol.

[@remcreate90]

@@blackwidow7804 in this new timeline the story unfolds and in the end cloud doesn't start wearing his advent children outfit, but he wears his dead friend vincent's cape, grows a bat wing, and puts bandages over his buster sword and wakes up in the hercules colliseum to fight for nomura's world

[@kleberson777]

LOL. that because CohhCarnage and itmeJP play almost all Kingdom Heart series and watch all the story. Also CohhCarnage been playing Danganronpa + Zero Escape series.

[@warm-heartedreaction6191]

@@kleberson777 japan always make mind blown plot lol

[@remcreate90]

@@kleberson777 Oh i've totally watched those playthroughs and love cohh, also i love how strippin brings up the books and how they're tied into the plot, made me seek out the books myself

[@GreenGo731]

Barret: “I’m avalanche “ Aerith: “local florist” Red 13: “lab rat dog!”

[@ssaunders1122]

@@serelryk5365 that moment was a straight reference to the og game. A lot of the cringe was square not updating dialogue from the original. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[@mikeshogunlee]

How many FF7R Spoiler Podcasts- Max: *YES*

[@cutsceneskip]

same tho

[@zhaf]

How many spoiler podcast have Max been in? I’ve only seen this one and the EZA one.

[@CHEESEPUFF_7]

@@zhaf Same

[@KamasamaK]

@@zhaf Those are the only one's I've seen him on. MinnMax brought him up in their Deepest Dive, so you could kinda say he was there in spirit. He also reprises his role for the EZA Intermission Spoiler Mode.

[@RP-ph4lr]

Strippin is the first person I've seen on stream with Max that is on his level and possibly supercedes him in theorizing. I'm on board with their interpretations.

[@Jenova867]

Agreed

[@2ndPlacePrize]

Yeeeerp, he did his homework with Black and White

[@alau5505]

Fo real man

[@PenguinsAreColdish]

man did work. meanwhile jp was akin to a greasy reddit troll

[@rcarrascc]

I came for this comment. He took it to a new level with his theory about Sephiroth alluring the party with flashforwards to move his plot forward

[@gutts4414]

2:43:54 is what you’re here for in 2022

[@jacoblarson8113]

You were right lol 2023 also

[@DediMerdeka]

lol how do you know

[@GREENPHOENIX12]

You were ABSOLUTELY right lol 2024 day before Rebirth also

[@PK_Scratch]

The idea that Sephiroth uploaded himself to the past via the Cloud is entertaining for many reasons. Oh boy, this sequel to the Spoiler Mode with Easy Allies is wonderful.

[@Nyla_emotes]

To be allowed to a spoilercast, requirements: - beard - glasses, but in case it can be replaced by a cap - big brain - FF7 soul who still watches this video 10 months later? I always come back to it and I am sooooo looking forward to the future ones :)

[@TheArchitect097]

Intergrade had me craving playing the game again. I couldn't hold of 3 months, I gotta play again now and done down the rabbit hope of this story. And this is the first FF game I've ever beaten.

[@lionward8634]

2:01:47 But Cloud DOES come across as very vulnerable and like an outcast. Tifa replies: "Should've figured. All the guys are leaving." IMMEDIATELY after that, Cloud turns around, looking confused and almost hurt, trying to explain her how much him leaving Midgar to become a SOLDIER really means to him: "B-but I'm not like them! I'm not going just to look for work..." He's still vulnerable, he's still extremely insecure, he's still trying to come across as a cool kid to the girl that he's considered his friend since they were kids (even when in reality they haven't interacted that much with each other), who at the same time, probably was his crush the whole time. That's even clearer in the Remake version of that scene. If that isn't vulnerable and relatable I don't know what is.

[@ggg21201]

I agree, but for me it was the voice acting. I thought it was terrible, both in delivery and voice for both characters. Besides Zack, one of the few times I disliked the voice actors chosen.

[@callum6224]

ggg21201 the Japanese dub is good, especially because they don’t subtitle the fight banter and I can’t understand Japanese so unlike the English dub which I can’t stand because of the dialogue in general but specifically the stuff during fights.

[@hinasakukimi]

@@ggg21201 i think the voice acting was fine, his voice was just a little deeper than expected.

[@NoctLightCloud]

@@callum6224 "the Japanese dub is good", "I can’t understand Japanese", are you even making sense? I at least understand Japanese, and I find the English VA equally good.

[@vine01]

@@NoctLightCloud neither do i understand japanese, but i would be damned if i watched more than a minute of english dub Advent Children. I don't care what anyone thinks eng dub is just plain stupid in it, it does not fit the colour of voice to the characters in my view. I think they've done excellent job in FF7R in this regard. My 2 cents.

[@adamdominguez656]

Original ff7 without the internet was not easy to understand. It took like 2-hour long conversations with friends to sort through

[@xavion15]

Adam Dominguez Dude I just finished the OG last week and I had to go through crisis core and rethink everything I saw and then had to look up discussions to fully make sure I understood. This game just had a ton of layers and confusing stuff going on. If I played this back in 97 I wouldn’t have understood it for many years 😂

[@compactmar-s-4145]

Level 10: nomura and the writers are taking notes from max. they set up the arbiter and sephiroth fight to create discussion to take ideas to please the fans .

[@francescolombardi3438]

Level 11: Max is a Xehanort, but his hair has very small slivers of grey on the tips of his hair strands

[@LeviathanVIII]

10/10 would not be surprised.

[@311Bambino]

Level 20: Max was actually Nomura in disguise all along

[@randyrhoads4737]

TOTALLY possible. Lmao! And that would be pretty damn cool.

[@PenguinsAreColdish]

max level theory

[@Doug-uf4cs]

I just love watching Cohh's expression as he gets mind blown time and time again.

[@damienkun8786]

Yeah, he's ugly asf

[@simpcat4415]

@@damienkun8786 damn bro chill

[@waraidako]

During the first PTSD meeting scene with Sephiroth after the Bombing Mission, when you're making your way through Sector 8, his final line to Cloud in the Japanese version isn't _"Hold on to that hatred."_ it's _"Do not forget me."_

[@PenguinsAreColdish]

localization team fumbles the bag again. i guess in a way it can mean the same thing though

[@thewunga3175]

I feel like this means the same thing, just the localization is obscuring the meaning a bit more

[@cor3zone]

One aspect of Cloud as the "unreliable narrator" I've not heard anyone mention; he's 21 years old (in the original, at least). He's experienced *huge* trauma for _5 years._ Which means he has the maturity of *at most* a 16 year-old.

[@Disco_Potato]

Yes. Nomura or was it Kitase, said almost those exact words in a recent interview.

[@AnthonyChats]

Apparently this came up in the Ultimania book. Such a good point. Never thought of it that way, but makes 100% sense.

[@ShellsGhost1]

On reddit I saw a thread that Cloud seems autistic and that also made a lot of sense as well. Autism isn't always just rain man. There are plenty of autistic people who are "normal" but they simply have more difficulty processing emotional and interpersonal queues. It's clear in this game, unlike the original, that he still cares about people a lot more then you might initially get based off the responses he gives in situations. Like when Tifa questions his relationship with her in her chapter. Trauma can effect people in profound ways and how it is carried with them and manifest is something that should be taken into consideration in real life and in artistic works like this.

[@cor3zone]

@@ShellsGhost1 That's probably why I've always indentified so strongly with him. I have similar tendencies.

[@shadowsaber4566]

Would explain why he feels so lost concerning what to do with his life before and during AC. He missed out living out his later teen years, in which most people would be doing various things during this time (or at least, what to do with their life once they become an adult).

[@nateriver7848]

Kitase just said in an interview that the story won't change drastically from the original. So I guess it's like what Max is saying. The major beats will be intact but how you get there is unknown.

[@PetarBladeStrok]

Strippin and Max blew my mind! This was amazing!!!

[@davidluu9858]

Haha watch stripping dechiper the end reminds me of Sephiroth in the basement scene deciphering his well being.. what a meta tripy stuff

[@gasparguruoftime5475]

David Luu So what you’re saying is Strippin is gonna go crazy and chuck Materia at Max’s head?

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Maximillian Dood was right about the REBIRTH subtitle for part 2!

[@UltimaGooner]

What point in the video is that?

[@lostinthefrost]

2:43:54

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

@@lostinthefrost Thank you I was looking all the podcast for that. Have a nice day!

[@mistermandrews]

Thanks for putting this out. After completing FF7R, I desperately needed to hear informed interpretations. While there are other discussions out there, the knowledge, humor, and reverence made this one the best.

[@willnelson9906]

i love how both the easy allies and this podcast complement one another, the easy allies video is great for introducing people who just finished the remake, who may have played the original or not, but have no idea what's going on. to be introduced to those levels of understanding, and then you can move on to this video, where it's all theory-craft in the 4th level

[@cavemonkynick]

"Final question: Tifa or Aerith?" Obviously its Wedge.

[@paledrake]

Cavemonkynick Heart of gold. He deserved better...

[@SkywardSpork]

@@paledrake Man that bit got me, "Cloud... I just wish you told me I made a difference" *Window Shatter* fuck, my boy Wedge needed more, part of me hopes he survived, if Biggs did

[@uchihagaeshi1169]

@@SkywardSpork yeah I almost feel like that point was meant to hammer in to us how much Cloud not being emotionally responsive affects the people around him in a negative way. Like the Cloud that is not the real him is literally causing damage to other people's lives and making their last moments that sad

[@letsfart4peace]

Strippin though, he’s on the Guru level.

[@thatgirlemshey]

It's Sephiroth's line "You failed again I see..." after the plate falls and you are walking with Tifa and Barret and asking about Ancients that made me realize the plot of Remake. At that point in the game, it is the first time you have really failed to protect someone, but Sephiroth has seen this before so he taunts you for it. THAT was my eye-opening moment. And his line in chapter two telling Cloud to "Run, run away, you have to leave, you have to live" because he wants Cloud and him "to defy destiny together". The second thing that really made me lose it was the president talking about cell degradation. I really want Tifa or Aerith or someone to bring that up to Cloud and to have that discussion. That would be interesting tie into Crisis Core and character development for Cloud and the others. Have him break down more, let's make him more unreliable then he already is.

[@sergevolosin9511]

@E1V1A if you wanna get technical about it Cloud has S cells that don't cause degradation, tho obviously non of them know that at that point. It'll most likely be addressed later on

[@xKuragu]

I agree with you but at the same time I don't. He could very well taunt Cloud for nor being able to save anyone in Nibelheim, not necessarily the plate destruction of the OG.

[@Nyla_emotes]

Well, in reality Cloud failed to protect his mum and Zack so more interpretations could apply here

[@spiraljumper74]

@@Nyla_emotes Yeah but OG Sephiroth has no idea who Cloud was at that point, he was just a random soldier. In the original Sephiroth doesn’t even know who Cloud is until Cloud brings up Nibelheim and tells Sephiroth they’ve fought before. There would be no reason for OG Sephiroth to make that sort of comment to Cloud. It is obviously a future version. That Sephiroth knew who Cloud was and had beef with him since the beginning of the game was THE thing that clued me into the new storyline.

[@Nyla_emotes]

@@spiraljumper74 sure thing this is a sequel to the original story for sure :)

[@NexusNoxCS]

This is honestly my favorite Dropped Frames ever. I have rewatched it like five times now.

[@kei7540]

Bugenhagen is just gonna fly on some big ass materia

[@toshizue8627]

Bugenhagen has the solution to janky ass air combat. Float materia.

[@YetiCoolBrother]

tosh salt No bullshit I think they could actually make a Float Materia work in this battle system, like equipping it is allows you to perform abilities/spells while airborne. Vincent has one on by default lol. If I’m not mistaken they even had a Float spell/status effect in FFXII.

[@DemonLordSparda]

@@YetiCoolBrother I want float and long range so bad.

[@laylamorrison9596]

@@YetiCoolBrother There was a float spell in FFIX, too.

[@ChristianSedaPlays]

Tldr;1.Aerith and Sephy downloaded their future memories into their past selves. 2.Sephy uses this to influence the party into getting strong enough to destroy fate for him to prevent his death/loss. 3. Aeris uses her influence to destroy fate in order to prevent the extinction of mankind. 4. Aeris is slowly losing her memories everytime the whispers touch her showing the planet doesn't like them messing with the timeline. 5. Sephy is too strong to be influenced by the whispers and finally bends them to his will. 6. Party ultimately destroys fate just like Sephy/Aeris wanted. If it ends well for them is unknown till the next game.

[@mf-h3659]

If you watch the original 2015 trailer, theres a white bird 'coming first'. Lifestream White. Aerith returning. And then the actual game starts with a scraggly black bird. Lifestream black. Sephiroth follows her. As well as this ive always thought it odd that Jenova has so many Time-modification spells like Stop. I wonder if this shifting about in the singularity of time is actually more specifically linked to Jenova than Seph, especially considering that Jenova is essentially 'outside' the system (coming from space). Just stuff to chew on i guess.

[@seancondon5572]

1:12:31 - Crisis Core was hella dope. I mean, today the gameplay of it feels antiquated, but back then... what, 13 years ago? Having such a game experience on the go was revolutionary.

[@elilass8410]

I watched a walkthrough recently and the dialogue and story are very, very bad. perhaps the gameplay was fun for sure, but storywise i think it squandered a lot of great ideas and instead did something incredibly melodramatic and dumb.

[@theifrit9090]

27:15 everyone's faces as soon as Strippin utters the word "darkness"

[@paleriderpalehorse55]

Can you help me understand why that's important?

[@CaptainTitforce]

@@paleriderpalehorse55 kingdom hearts uses the word "darkness" in a million different contexts which makes things super confusing

[@86fifty]

1:00:15 - 'for new people, who see Zack at the end for the first time, will they be like 'who the hell is this guy that looks like Cloud??' I have had the pleasure of watching a totally blind playthrough on Twitch and this girl was on TOP of it - she understood immediately that this was Aerith's original boyfriend, since she was hard-core Team Aerith especially with that scene on the playground where they muted out Aerith saying Zack's name, she picked up on a lot of hints, for sure - she's aware that Cloud's memories are screwed up somehow - she took the muttered 'mother' statement from Cloud re: Jenova to actually throw into question whether Claudia in that flashback was /really Cloud's mother/. Understandably, since the extent of Cloud's trauma is not, at this point, known. But since Cloud knew Hojo's name before anyone else brought it up, and after we saw how he talked to Aerith, she assumed that Cloud must have been experimented on by this guy... And the ending speech by Aerith before we went into the Singularity? She understood that this was foreshadowing, that this is how an omniscient character talks. She's super excited to learn more about Sephiroth's backstory, and is planning to begin a playthru of OG FF7 just to get those answers! So, yes, while everything about 'zack died originally and so did Aerith' is a surprise still to come, she's aware enough of storytelling tropes to understand that things are being kept from us on purpose, and the OG has those answers - well, to some degree. ;)

[@Alyssonix]

What s her name?

[@86fifty]

@@Alyssonix Clockwork_Olive. She's a pretty small streamer, only around 20 average viewers. She loved FF7R so much, she's doing FF7 OG, the Steam version, now! She also streams ACNH, has a very chill and optimistic vibe in chat. Edit: She has also streamed all of Danganronpa and Persona 5, and is IRL in school to become a Poetry Professor.

[@gastonzumbo5399]

@@86fifty this is some of the best publicity for a creator I've ever seen, even if unintentional, lol

[@jonteguy]

*"Ore" in Japanese means "I", so does "Watashi" but they are used differently.* Now that you know that; The Japanese Version of FF7 Original, Crisis Core, AC and Remake makes use of this deliberately, with intent so to speak. The Sephiroth after the incident at Nibelheim uses "Watashi" to refer to himself, the crazy one. Pre-crazy Sephiroth only uses "Ore", in Crisis Core this is all he uses, this Sephiroth is before he found out what he was, he talks using "Ore". Sephiroth in this Remake uses the word "Watashi" at every encounter except one, the one at Edge of Creation uses the word "Ore". This is *clearly* deliberate. This is the Sephiroth at the Edge of Creation, the one before the incident at Nibleheim, the more "human" one. Either that or he has been humbled and started using "Ore" once again. He does not have a wing here either, I feel is important to point out. If you are unsure about this just google "watashi ore sephiroth" and you will find it, even on the Original FF7 wiki. As someone who is not fluent in Japanese but speaks it well enough, there are actually multiple things lost in translation for this Remake, the dialogue at the Edge of Creation has a whole different tone to it in Japanese too. It is quite sad but I would advice anyone who's capable of understanding Japanese to go over the important scenes in the Remake and listen to them in Japanese, they are probably all on KZbin, you might even be able to find properly subbed ones for those who do not understand Japanese.

[@RenHeng_canon]

INTERESTING. Imma watch all of it in Japanese then. 教えてくれてありがとう。👌

[@KaneOsu]

went back and heard the jp version again. yeah you are totally right...! Another major diff between jp and eng ver is red13's comment on the scene of "500 yrs later", where in the jp ver he never says it's a "bad ending" but just "the future we are about to discard".

[@riddif]

thank you for adressing this.. Japanese addressing subject always get butchered in translations alottt.. that actually very important to determind the characters traits/profile/behaviour towards him/herself and to others. it's like refering "Kimi" and "Anta", "Anata" "Teme" for hard translation, it's the same, but it tell's you the differences in honorific/behaviour/relationship just by that word alone. and like you've pointed, "Watashi" "Atashi" "Boku" "Ore" "Waga" is the same, but heavy differences on personality wise. That's why i don't REALLY like English dub on JP games, it always had this might be little in mistranslation but actually alot in missing.

[@ChristheDowned]

Linguistic nuance in Japanese media always hits right 👌

[@rimurutempest117]

You are on something here. This probably will have impact on the story or theories we can gather about the game's events as a player, final fantasy 7 re-make is very cryptic after all, so it doesn't help much. I wouldn't be surprised if other languages are actually giving extra insight on what could actually transpire in the next games and such.. crazy to think about.

[@Bahamut-bj3bh]

All in for Level 4 stuff 👍

[@cheesewaferstick5024]

Excerpt from "Final Fantasy 7 Remake Ultimania Book Interview With Nomura, Kitase, And Nojima" ------------------ -If we follow this Remake’s story, then the next installment might have major changes compared to the original, right? Kitase: I’ve talked about this extensively with Nomura, but I’m sure fans of the original are expecting to revisit familiar locations and scenes, so we have strong feelings to not stray away from that. From here on out, we’re not drastically changing the story and making it into something completely different than the original. Even though it’s a Remake, please assume that FF7 will still be FF7 as usual. Nojima: For me, I create scenarios that follow the general flow of the original story but with the assumption that the way things are presented or how events occur might be slightly different. ------------------ Whew, for some reason this gives me a lot of comfort. Hoping the next episodes will be even better.

[@sdbzfan1]

"Even though it’s a Remake, please assume that FF7 will still be FF7 as usual." that sentence alone makes me feel like Japans definition of what a remake is and is what closer to what I was expecting, is different then America because everybody thought we were getting essentially a remaster I.E the same but better while to Kitase and Nomura they wanted to do things differently but knew fans would be scared of change and decided to change as little as they could

[@meeranhaq9479]

@@sdbzfan1 Technically. the American definition is stupid lol. "Re:make" basically even translates to remaking something. Idk why people think it just means "better graphics"

[@theoverlord3937]

@@meeranhaq9479 no idea either. We’ve had plenty of remakes in the past that completely changed things from the original game (for example, Pokémon ORAS), and NOBODY whined like this. Apparently, everyone was expecting a remaster instead.

[@liynne]

@@meeranhaq9479 truth, cause that would basically be just a remaster

[@ggg21201]

Fans: So, are we going to get a remake of the OG game or a sequel? Square: Yes

[@jzglazier8999]

"I've never had a game whoop me in the ass emotionally like 7 " I felt that heavy lmaooo

[@SBaby]

1:44:54 - I remember in the original, they said Meteor was going to fall in seven days. Cosmically speaking, seven days may as well be as long as seven seconds.

[@twilit8162]

I never considered that. Wow.

[@SBaby]

@@twilit8162 The number '7' is of particular importance to the game, since it's the seventh game in the series. Seven days until Meteor falls, Sector Seven is where Avalanche was based in a bar called Seventh Heaven, Lucky 7s happening in battle, Cloud levels up to 7 after the first battle, the list goes on.

[@RPGManoWar]

Yeah FF does this all the time. 14 is an important number in FF14 too

[@huzidamasta]

Max actually predicted the second game's name 🤯🤯🤯

[@UltimaGooner]

He is a prophet.

[@Brannen666]

The next big event isn't Aerith's death. It's Barret and Dyne and then Cosmo Canyon. (Which was the saddest moment for me until Crisis Core)

[@Swwatter]

Cosmo Canyon hurt me more than Aerith's death. When Red's dad dropped tears, I felt that sadness big time. Then Red begins to howl and I'm a wreck.

[@jameclockwork]

This

[@xavion15]

I never felt a lot about Barrett’s moments honestly, Red I did a little more but Aerith hit me hard. Probably because I played the remake first then the OG I think with the Remake everything is gonna so amplified that Barret and Reds will be super impactful but man I just know with this quality that the Aerith scenes are going to obliterate my soul

[@BleachBasket108]

I'm 100% prepared for my date with Barrett in the next game

[@Willbo-ft6oy]

As someone who didn't play the original FF7, the ending left me asking a shit ton of questions thus I've watched probably 8 hrs of spoilercasts so far lol.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

The game was definitley made for people who have played the original, which is ironic as those are also the people that the changes are more likely to upset.

[@mkadoza]

@@BasketCase-rr7tx I played the first game, and I LOVE these changes. Im right on board with Cohh and Max.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

@@mkadoza Not everyone will hate the ending. But I am saying that the people who do hate the ending are people who played the original. Personally it confuses me that fans like these guys would like the ending, as it basically ruins themes and moments from the original, as well as making chanhges to certain characters like Sephiroth that just takes away from what made them great characters in the first place.

[@mkadoza]

@@BasketCase-rr7tx But thats only true if you didnt watch Advent Children, or play Crisis Core. I am a HARDCORE FF7 fan. I love everything about the characters and the world, and theyve some how turned what I thought would be a rushed incomplete remake into a MASTERPIECE of a sequel.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

Hmni Kadoza actually most Hardcore fans ignore Advent Children Becuase the depiction of the characters is so inaccurate

[@DeadwingDork]

Aerith's steel sky quote is a Crisis Core reference with a double meaning to allude to the "blue sky" nature of the future of the remake series.

[@SkilledLegend]

Nojima cleared it up as an interview question in the ultimatum. She hates the sky because it reminds her of sad events. The calamity (Jenova) came from the sky and killed the ancients. Her mother and Zack returned to the planet via the sky. It reminds her of sad things so she prefers the steel sky.

[@randyrhoads4737]

Her mother died at the train station in Midgar though. I don't recall any source saying Ifalna returned to the planet via the sky. Did you find something that details that more? Please share if so.

[@incogniftoar3943]

I think she misses the steel sky because she doesn't wanna leave the slums

[@DisappointedBuddha]

I think she misses the steel sky because she interprets the rain from Midgard as shield from the greater sky experienced from the world. The emotions being overwhelming, both the steel sky reminding her of Zack and the real sky reminding her of Cloud. Two men she loved, and Two circumstances she changed the course of. Yes it reminds her of Jenova, but also of Zack and Cloud, a symbol of both despair and hope. Goddamn it, I like Cloud more than Zack so having him die feels wrong

[@librarygary1618]

the "dumptruck" at the end didn't bother me because it had already been established that aerith was some kind of supernatural being so I just assumed she was letting on that she was some innocent girl the whole time

[@13thGeek]

Jenova caused the destruction of the Ancients by haunting them with visions of dead loved ones. Jenova was an infection of the body and mind that caused paranoia and rage. It is entirely possible that Sephiroth is just the chosen form of Jenova due to Hojo’s experiments performed on him in the womb and his power. Sephiroth himself may have been the most infected person ever. The reason Sephiroth keeps appearing to Cloud is not because Sephiroth is following Cloud, but because Jenova is within him affecting his mind. Which also makes me question if “Dream Aerith” is another Jenova hallucination manipulating Cloud.

[@paleriderpalehorse55]

Reminds me exactly of the Thing taking others forms to mess with everybody.

[@13thGeek]

Pale Rider, Pale horse what’s for me is that I don’t think “Dream Aerith” in the garden is Aerith at all but a Jenova Hallucination. It did it before in the original by posing as Tifa to trick Red VIII.

[@13thGeek]

Isrel156 unless that’s exactly what Jenova wants him to believe. Kind of weird that Sephiroth and an alien entity that infects and consumes a planets lifestream would have the same goals to infect more planets. Like whose will is actually being exercised here because Jenova was doing all this long before Sephiroth.

[@13thGeek]

Isrel156 didn’t Sephiroth get the idea that Jenova was a Cetra, which it absolutely is not, from Hojo’s notes in Nibelheim? (Can’t remember whose notes they were) Is was also stated that Jenova destroyed the Cetra by haunting them with hallucinations or illusions. My theory is based on Jenova making everyone see what it wants them to see. So Hojo’s observations could be another manipulation by Jenova to drive Hojo to aid his creation/son. Or to meet halfway here, Sephiroth’s misguided “love” for Jenova allows it to indoctrinate him to the point of being practically of one mind. If he “conquered” Jenova why does he keep trying to bring about REUNION? Even Kadaj, Yazoo, and Loz are not trying to bring back Sephiroth but retrieve “Mother’s Memetic Legacy”.

[@theoverlord3937]

I feel like at this point, “Jenova” and “Sephiroph” are interchangeable. It almost feels like an allegory to Christianity, where Jesus is the son of God but also IS God, which is probably intentional considering Sephiroph’s god complex. You can’t say one controls the other, because they’re so deeply connected the two are basically the same.

[@VENLEE9597]

Maximilian Dood - "By the end of this saga, you'll be on board team Tifa" . the best line

[@UnFrSaKn]

Somehow I missed another Easy Allies style podcast with Max discussing his official patented Level system to understanding Remake. I didn’t want that one to end so this is more of that. 😎🥤🍿

[@EpicScreenReviews]

Rewatching this to prepare for Intergrade and I'm so hyped! This show was great live and better on a rewatch.

[@slyzertvoltrond8461]

Same here haha, this spoilercast is even better than the Easy Allies one imo

[@rowdyretromoose]

"Five percent of this game is risky" Yep, and the vocal diehards treat it like the whole game is trash as a result of it. That small percentage painted it as if the remake is completely unfaithful to the source and I wish those people could look at it more objectively and give it a fair shake. Not to say there's no reason for people to dislike the game, but I feel like just for an ending isn't enough to demonize the devs and not at least give them the benefit of the doubt.

[@Cybernetic800]

Yes, seen some cringe takes from FF channels who don't understand the difference in a remake and remaster.

[@rodanandme]

as someone who was new to the game but has since played the original game, i still think the ending was great, i think a great point is that allowing old players to feel the same feeling as the original comes with it the necessity for the story to change, it cant just be new players crying while old players just nod knowingly

[@Nito-San]

Max: I gone through all the material on this franchise. Sam: .....Hold on fam.... Max: *Surprised Pikachu*

[@DoTheAstralPlane]

As a big Kingdom Hearts fan, comparing KH and FFVII is honestly just not fair. Nomura, Kitase and Nojima stitched together a JRPG narrative based on a Disney crossover, with the specific goal of trying to match the thematic elements in all Disney together and also appeal to a younger, western audience. The three of those guys have had their hand in basically every FF game for the past 3 decades. I know that people see "DIRECTOR - NOMURA" and think this Remake project is all his, but it's not. This really doesn't have much of anything to do with KH except for the combat (kinda) and the "plot ghosts".

[@emptilion]

I really love these discussions. This is getting me even more excited than the easy allies spoiler mode podcast, and I am only 38 minutes into this.

[@TheKinety]

I'd like to point out when Biggs opens his eye, a tiny whisper spark hits him, the same thing happens after the explosion with Zack, except he literally gets pushed back from it. Almost like a metaphor that Zack was a massive fate change, where biggs being alive and sector 7 being rebuilt was tiny changes.

[@TheKinety]

The whisper shield around midgar, is essentially keeping zack from reaching it. Zack reaches Midgar, he has a chance to join Avalanche, reunite with Aerith and essentially teach Cloud how to be an actual soldier. And let the group in on Sepiroths past. Cloud only ever knew his legends not his true nature. Zack did how ever knew more about him, which would be valuable to actually defeating him.

[@TheKinety]

Also the dump truck at the end of the game. Is actually more similar too the original then we all realize. Sephiroth was kinda just thrown at you. It was always you against an electric company being tyranical. Then boom, this random guy with this massive long katana sword is actually the bad guy. And it just throws the journey out to left field.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

Even if I am somewhat worried about how Square Enix staff will manage to develop the story, I am all in of the ride. It is nice to know FF7 universe has all kinds of surprises for long-time fans. I love the Remake, it has a lot for everyone.

[@PenguinsAreColdish]

the story sounds fire so far, now they just need to worry about the execution

[@Maradum]

I am totally on Max Doods side here regarding the next part: The ending was way too much (dump truck) and the way it was presented was not goog. But, the rest of the game was perfect, characters were perfect, I would even say the best fleshed out characters in any FF ever. The world itself was wonderful, Midgar was exactly as I always imagined it in my brain. If 95% of the game were like this, I cannot imagine at all that the next game will not be great aswell.

[@Wizard_Pikachu]

Yup. It's a overall Net Positive Experience

[@SkywardSpork]

Feels like they knew that had to release it, and realised the context for the next game was missing and they had to force it all into the end

[@chupetaparamahboy]

for me the worst part is the combat system, i know it's not a popular opinion but i much prefer the good old turn based systems or even something like FFXII where you program your party. i really dislike these active-battle systems and i ended up dropping the game pretty early on and watching the rest on youtube because i couldn't stand the fighting.

[@SkywardSpork]

@@chupetaparamahboy Out of curiosity did you try the classic mode for combat? Don't have to worry as much about constantly auto attacking, I think everyone auto blocks, and only need to input abilities/spells and I think you you can dodge too, I didn't mess with it much

[@chupetaparamahboy]

@@SkywardSpork i did, it more or less makes the game play itself. i think it's intended for people with disabilities who might have difficulty playing it or older people who don't play games often, basically allows you to more or less ignore the combat and just enjoy the story, i think a big problem with the combat is that often it just takes too damn long. i watched the story on youtube and skipped all the combat bits

[@edwardshopimentel3589]

This discussion makes me want to drink beer while listening in.

[@Alassandros]

Jenova is a shape shifter. I believe the parts of Jenova (hand, head, foot) manifests as Sephiroth several times. Also, Sephiroth can manifest himself into all the reunion cultists.

[@Willbo-ft6oy]

"Final question: Tifa or Aerith?" Jessie: Am I a joke to you

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

Jessie was only ever suppose to be a plot device, fleshing her out doesnt improve the story becuase the story was never about her, and Cloud certainly doesnt need another love interest.

[@killerking2346]

@@BasketCase-rr7tx >fleshes out character, bigger impact on Cloud and her death >she dies so it's wasted time. What's next, Aerith is useless to the plot as well? Screw you plot ghost.

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

@@killerking2346 No becuase Aerith's death is Vital to the plot, Jessie never was. You know nothing about storytelling if you think fleshing out Jessie helped the story, it just slowed the plot down.

[@killerking2346]

@@BasketCase-rr7tx absolute stupid. Wow. Drop Barret then, he's not critical to the plot. Drop Yuffie and Vincent too right, they are even opitional

[@BasketCase-rr7tx]

Killer King Barret is one of the main characters. He is absolutely critical to the plot. In the grand scheme of the original FF7, comparing Barret to Jessie is like comparing Aragon from LOTR with some random Elf that wanders about in the background while the Fellowship is in Rivendell.

[@CrowsofAcheron]

"At the end of a very specific game, you figure out you're some crazy squid baby." "What game game are we referencing?" "Kingdom Hearts 1" DYING.............Respect for Max increased 3000%

[@nostalgiaverse9892]

Sephiroth already regained his memories. He gave up all that stuff to reinforce Meteor. When Sephiroth absorbs the Whispers he also absorbs Meteor, & he regains everything he lost.

[@unclesuave]

I bought the books "On The Way To The Smile" which contains the Lifestream Black/White pages Strippin was referring to. I also have the book"Turks Side Story: The Kids Are Alright" gives you much more of a background on characters like Kyrie and Leslie. It's told during 7 and up to Advent Children. Both give even more depth to the Universe and the characters are so well written.

[@EthanDeRose]

I've never got so excited to watch a 3hr long podcast until I saw Max was here. Been waiting for more thoughts since his last podcast.

[@DeadwingDork]

Holy shit I can't believe you're all also on board with Cloud dies/Zack replaces Cloud theory. The one true woke theory.

[@GeektoStudios]

except if sephiroth loses a puppet in cloud, he might want a replacement. oh look, zack is alive *feelings of dread*

[@randyrhoads4737]

Dude this shit is crazy. Zack and Cloud both went through the same process. If Sephiroth needs and relies on Cloud to manifest, then he could do the EXACT same thing with Zack... right? Am I missing something? Also, Sephiroth could use Roche or any other Hojo labrat of Soldier to come back that have been infused with Jenova cells. That said, ALL Jenova Cell infused individuals would need to be exterminated to REALLY stop Sephiroth from having any sort of power. Right...? It's all so confusing. Lmao.

[@benjaws5263]

I also think that in order for Cloud to stop Sephiroth who is the anchor for Sephiroth to exist beyond time, space and dimensions, they will need to remove all memories and the existence of Sephiroth in anybody's mind so that he hever has a chance to come back. I think Cloud will come to that realization that he is the anchor for Sephiroth existence beyond the lifestream and the removal of the Whisperers and he will make the ultimate choice of letting Aerith die or his ending his own existence so that all traces of Sephiroth will dissapear

[@Cybernetic800]

The ending will be Cloud has to die to close never ending loop of Sephiroth returning and the gang fighting him as Cloud and Sephiroth are bound together.

[@yeseniafuentessantos995]

Agreed!!

[@cjboller6001]

They better put Max and Strippin as an in-game character. Put Max as assistant or disciple of Bugenhagen. Put Strippin as a helper boy of Chocobo sage.

[@lionward8634]

So what I've learned from this is... for Sephiroth to be ULTIMATELY defeated... Cloud. Has. To. Die.

[@fauzanadrian1593]

ff xv again,noctis=cloud

[@oneplayerpete]

Cloud has to forget about Sephiroth

[@laylamorrison9596]

I'd thought the same thing.

[@brookswilliams5239]

Yes...

[@benjaws5263]

Probably, but I think that all of the people who have interacted with Sephiroth will have to dissapear so that Sephiroth can never come back as now he only can exist through memories of him

[@Rushnzl16]

Strippin just blew my fucken mind with story time amazing

[@JoeyMarshall]

I was on the fence after beating the game, I liked it a lot but the ending threw me for a loop and I wasn't confident (Still not really) in modern day Squeenix to do FF7 justice... However after watching this I feel a lot better about it and wanted to say thanks! I was going to buy all the parts anyway because FF7 was extremely formative for me alongside Mario 64 so I'm all in for "Nomura's Wild Ride"

[@sorakey4005]

Max got lagged the 2nd time during podcast about FFVII. That's definitely related to either Nomura or Sephiroth don't want him so spoil part 2 and 3 lol

[@mindxfuneral]

Never get tired of coming back and watching these in anticipation of Rebirth. Quick note on Roche (mentioned around 1:10:00); “Why would he leave Midgar?” Why would we *not* see Roche again? He’s totally obsessed with fighting Cloud, and he’s the only SOLDIER we see with a means of transportation lol. He’s definitely going to pursue Cloud and friends all over the world until he’s inevitably overcome by his degradation and they have to put him out of his misery.

[@HomeNuke]

The rebirth predictions at 1:56:28 on point

[@overshadowedone]

As more people know him....Is Sephiroth Freddie Krueger?

[@ol_thecreator]

I'm here two years later...revisiting this video...because of Max's predictions. "REBIRTH" 🎮🔥🇨🇦

[@nickwalter9433]

Great video... This took me to level 6 after watching the spoiler mode with Maximilian Dood

[@XenoKnightAlpha]

42:42 what did Max link? Some video about music notes? Did I hear that right? I gotta see that link!

[@glencarbongloryboy421]

It appears you never got a reply to this. Did you happen to find it on your own?

[@nathanojeda]

@@glencarbongloryboy421 I am curious if you still have the link.

[@glencarbongloryboy421]

@@nathanojeda I think this is the one: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGm8h3mOrdBnhaM

[@Nyla_emotes]

@@glencarbongloryboy421 I was soooo much trying to find this! thank you!!!

[@fraenznoa5508]

@@glencarbongloryboy421 the video is private now, cant see it. Can someone explain what it is?

[@strelitziamystery21]

Has anyone noticed how the time travel in this is VERY Kingdom hearts? For those who don't remember or know the rules of time travel in KH here it is: 1- First you leave your body behind and exist only as a heart 2- The only points in time that one person can reach by going in the past are the ones where a version of you existed; However if your objective is to travel to the future then theoretically any time period is reachable but two additional elements must be present at the same place in said time period: Someone who remembers you. A medium through which your body can be reconstructed. However should this anchor be destroyed, instead of passing away in the afterlife, the time travelling individual will instead have their heart forcefully pulled back to the time they came from. 3- While there is no restriction (apparently) to your actions if your destination is in the future, If you are travelling to the past thanks to conventional means your actions would have no affect on the timeline (but due to the whispers being killed I doubt this rule counts still) 4- While someone is travelling through time, they can potentially pass their ability to other versions of themselves. 5- Once someone stops travelling though time, be it the future or the past, and returns to their proper flow of time, they lose the memories of the experiences they had while travelling. However they will leave a mark in the heart, an etch, which will dictacte the persons future actions through (Yeah most of these rules seem to fit with whatever Sephiroth did. The medians are the Sephiroth clones and Jenova and Cloud is the anchor that remembers him, Nomura you clever jerk... you're just trying to make KH cannon!)

[@kidcitrus1231]

Max brings it up in his playthrough of the game, but I love how the discussion of soldier is they gave up their lives for power. We see the results of that in Roche, who has become crazy.

[@ajaysaiMB]

Max is 37 but acts like a 12 year old when he talks about FF7 and Bloodborne. Love it❤️

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

nobody seems to mention it but Wedge lives too. Jessie is the only one of the three that stays dead.

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

woops

[@teslavoltagames3208]

I have a friend in the industry who was around mainly in the 2000's for Bioware. He went to SquareEnix in Japan right at the dawn of the HD era and he said the Japanese were 5 to 10 years behind technologically the American studios. They struggled with the HD era and I think these Japanese companies have finally figured out HD and 4K gaming and the implications for developing in HD environments. It has only been the last 3 years that studios like Platinum, Nintendo, SquareEnix, Capcom, Sega, Atlus has really started nailing AAA HD gaming and modern game mechanics. Which is good because the Japanese have had great games in the past and the industry benefits with more competition across the pond.

[@Rant0n]

Careful now that what lies ahead does not yet exist

[@AruthaSilverthorn]

In terms of map, I am championing BoW style map with random encounters replaced with avoidable creature groups. The party splits into two groups and every now and again you can run into the other group, you can use summons and choose to explore or run directly to chocobo farm etc. It is a perfect backbone to replace world maps same as action +ATB replaces turn based combat.

[@Alassandros]

Imagine how hard Neo Bahamut and Zero Bahamut will be to fight. Shit, imagine having to fight the Knights of the Round.

[@alau5505]

Your puny party of 3 taking on 12 what I'm going to assume are like the ff15 Old Wall entities... I struggled with the last VR mission lol

[@alau5505]

Oh dude I just realised the Old Wall kinda do look like KOTR... Another evidence to link the two universes perhaps?

[@zueszues9715]

Knight of the Round MUST Absorbed Great Hp Per second as long as you not die each Knight will show up one by one and if u have Hp enough 12 Knight will come if u die Super skill will release with number knight u have right at that momment

[@SBaby]

1:58:29 - Yep. And I could really see the second part starting that way.

[@Xeltos]

Don't forget that in Deepground when they see the vats after rescuing Wedge, Cloud has a flashback of him being in one, then the arbiters show up and throw them out.

[@SooRandomTV]

Man we need another one of these full podcasts with these 4

[@Vilis_Farthuk]

A guy I play D&D with is playing it after never playing the original. He hasn't beaten it but I asked him "Y'know those ghost things? Not in the original at all." and he looked at me shocked like "What?? But they seem so essential!"

[@albelvalentine8983]

Literally similar thing happened to me lol.

[@arvind8640]

JP, I really liked the trio (Max, Cohh and Strippin) you brought onto this show. It was SO insightful. I hope you can get them on board for future Dropped Frames specials!

[@ShadowWolfRising]

Can we talk about the possible canonization of the FF7-FF10 connection? And here's a potential theory, what if Sephiroth doesn't want to do Meteor anymore, and wants to do something else?

[@nostalgiaverse9892]

The Sephiroth who stabs President Shinra is Jenova. It was in the OG & is clearly shown in Remake.

[@un_known5895]

ooooh so THAT's why there are so many people saying "it's official! the three whisper bosses are cloud, barret and tifa!" it's because IGN did a crap shoot without even thinking about it and everyone thinks their word is law..... FML....

[@rama140792]

Never saw that video and the thought never crossed my mind, not even close about them being cloud, tifa and barret.

[@jordanbutler6702]

It just goes to show that people will only take their favorite source of information as law. What happened to research and checking ALL sources?! With all the information out there about the source material, even experts have to refresh their memory from time to time. The freaking devs even said this was the case for them while planning for FF7R's sequel!!!

[@LuciFury]

Or..... they are kadaj, yazu, and the other guy

[@jordanbutler6702]

@@LuciFury I think the comment you are responding to is quoting the misinformed...

[@xavion15]

Rama Rossi All you had to do was assess them and read their descriptions lol. Like once you do that it’s obvious who they are

[@Fleetw00d]

If Aerith and Sephiroth are sending themselves or their knowledge back in time to their past selves, and the Whispers are a neutral party between the two acting independently, it would explain why Aerith remarks that she “loses something” every time the Whispers come into contact with her. Basically, Aerith is possessing knowledge of the future which will change fate. The Whispers attack her and... possess (for lack of a better word) her, then erase the knowledge that would change her fate. They can’t hurt her, they can’t destroy her because it’d change fate. But they can take that knowledge away, and basically “factory reset” Aerith.

[@blackrat1228]

Anyone know what video they referencing at 42:45, the one about the music notes? It's not the easy allies one is it?

[@chadmarsh5356]

I'm interested in this too but I dont remember that from the layout of his levels. I know the one piece he does mention in there is in the very first scene, when Aerith gets scared, One winged angel is played. So he must have already seen it by then at least.

[@MugenHeadNinja]

Commenting for eventual link to video.

[@Kasmot]

Here mah friend kzbin.info/www/bejne/aGm8h3mOrdBnhaM

[@POolBacK]

For a long time, I've been telling my brother to wait for the Remake to play FF7, because it makes more sense. I was expecting the Remake to build characters more and would probably have a bigger overall impact. Now that I've finished it, it's obvious that the Remake would have been much more enjoyable if people had played the original one. I really like what they have done with the game, one of the best FF game in years, I feel like they seem to understand what made the serie fantastic in the first place ... BUT ... I am not sure I should recommend the remake to anybody who haven't played the original. I've already told my brother to "keep in mind the ghosts aren't part of the original game". Hopefully, he will get it with the context.

[@ra0028534]

He doesn't need to play the original, the remake is going to give him questions and the next one is going to give him answers. He doesn't need to know everything from the beginning.

[@pyrosianheir]

You don't need to have played the first one. I haven't, and it was really satisfying.

[@djakadt]

I disagree. I've never played the first and know very limited lore about it and absolutely loved this game.

[@intalek305]

The ghosts ARE in the first one though....we just don't know them as ghosts like that...

[@POolBacK]

@@intalek305 yeah, I guess they were invisible since future Aerith hadn't touched us then.

[@FailroadExpress]

We should not be able to control Sephiroth. As fun as it would be we should not be able to control him. He is the only person who can control himself. If anything he should be a guest party member like Red XIII but be a total badass and have to save us like in the original. To gain control of Sephiroth would be to dilute his power and mystery.

[@justpazzingby13]

That would only apply to Post AC Seph.. not Pre-Nibel Seph

[@umphreak9999]

3:45 that knowing smirk from Max says everything

[@twitchtvemptyvials7505]

Drink every time Cohh says 'Interesting' for a fun time!

[@tenchu006]

Knowledge ranks Gods- Max and Strippin Demigod- Coh Mortal- JP

[@porliltnktnk84]

So listening to the aerith stuff, what if when she is the same person from og but when she said she looses a piece of herself they actually give her pieces of herself from the future, so she's is loosing her current self but gaining the knowledge so that's why she gradually gets more comfortable with things and more definitive.

[@WilliamBowles]

This is how I took it. Every time the whispers touch her, she's being given information she shouldn't know and its changing who she is/who she should be as a person.

[@PenguinsAreColdish]

William Bowles i think she's being given information from the planet. the whispers DONT want her to have this information, because them and aerith want two opposite things to happen. they want the OG "bad" ending to take place where sephiroth dies, but humanity goes extinct, but aerith wants to create a different possibility, but the whispers try to take that from her because they want to incite that bad ending

[@nickknowledge298]

@@PenguinsAreColdish I agree but I'm also a little confused...I thought the whispers were an extention of the planet? A defense mechanism to keep fate on track for the same resolution as the og. Or are they a 3rd motive?

[@PenguinsAreColdish]

@@nickknowledge298 they assumedly were until near the end where it appears sephiroth took full control of them

[@ironborn4389]

The moment Sephiroth appears physically in Advent Children is the moment that JENOVA, Sephiroth and Cloud make contact... WOW!

[@alexmag342]

Kitase never said humans were canonicly destroyed tho, just that it was a possible ending during development having holy destroying humanity but later abandoned it because the director didn't like it, and advent children just show humanity is fine and geostigma is cured, the future is not one without humans but one where humans became more like the Cetra and abandoned Midgar, dirge of Cerberus whatever you think about the overall plot and many of its weird characters, it does shows people abandoned Midgar

[@Horsaz]

But in AC, before the movie actually started, you see Red XIII run with his kids in a future devoid of humans though. The exact same ending as the og. So what's up with that?

[@alexmag342]

@@Horsaz its not devoid of humans, it shows that people abandoned Midgar and Mako and so the planet recovered

[@Horsaz]

@@alexmag342 when exactly did it do that? After that scene it specifically says something like "400 years earlier" not after.

[@alexmag342]

@@Horsaz yes and during ac and stated and shown in dirge of cerberus people were already abandoning Midgar and looking for other powers sources(lead by Barrett)

[@Horsaz]

@@alexmag342 then I'm really wondering why Red XIII would comment in the remake that that specific future is bad. Cause the only thing that makes sense is that the world is devoid of humans.

[@Rexaura888]

29:00 Kingdom Hearts 2 wound up working this into their little Sephiroth vs. Cloud story (I think even in the first one it’s hinted at with Cloud calling Sephiroth his darkness or something), because Sephiroth taunts Cloud at various points saying that he is always a part of Cloud. Long as that “darkness” i.e. his memory of Sephiroth remains with Cloud, Sephiroth will always keep coming back to haunt him. I was wondering why that sounded familiar when I was reading up on the Complilation and the Lifestream stories. I also love how the team in interviews is not at all hiding how much Advent Children plays into the events of Remake Part 1. It is no accident that in all those Inside FF7 Remake interviews they keep bringing up Advent Children so frequently. All that not-so-subtle name drops are as much of an ad to get people curious and interested in learning more about the expanded lore from the Compilation as much as Jump Up, Super Star from Super Mario Odyssey is a subtle ad to celebrate the Switch and all things Mario.

[@mkadoza]

I would say an acknowledgement of established lore, not an ad.

[@marzthedemon66]

KH2 team made the remake as far as gameplay mechanics go so yea

[@mrtoast3319]

Since Cloud is a horcrux for Sephiroth, now that Zack is alive that means Sephiroth now has Zack as a horcrux also. Maybe Seph is in two places at once at the end, (in zacks midgar and in clouds midgar) to use the whispers to keep Zack alive for him to control. This story is gonna be completely different then the original and I'm loving it.

[@tissuewater]

I posted this on another comment but, in my interpretation, the Zack we see near the ending is the OG timeline, Stamp logo is the OG timeline too, and Zack is dead, he dies while it was raining near the cliff (it just started raining in the ending with the party). This remake is the alternate timeline, therefore different Stamp logo, and Zack is still dead (probably).

[@josephsmith886]

Leave it to Max to bring in the omega level, super brain thinking and theories and details not many got the first time playing this game. And Cohh's face when his mind is blown is just classic!