DRUMMERS: You're overpaying!

[@Drummerguymj]

Your audio quality does not match your channel! Worlds better than some bigger channels! Keep it up!❤

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Thank you so much, man - I super appreciate that, for real. Thank you for being here!

[@robertsteinberger]

Go to the start of the video. Tap the "10 seconds back" function a few times very fast. Trust me.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

What

[@xaleksio]

You can put a pillow into a kick, you can put a wallet on snare, put whatever into a drum, you can influence the sound in countless ways, you can't do any of that with a cymbal lol

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Yeah, you can only make the cymbals worse by doing stuff to them, be it tape or other dampening stuff.

[@ziggylebon6725]

100% agreed. A hack is also to buy a used shell set which will save you quite some cash. Unlike used cymbals, the shells typically never break (unless they were somehow thrown around, abused or in a car crash) and all you have to tolerate are a few dings and dongs which will appear sooner or later anyway. For me personally it's easier to just program the drums, because of my lack of drumming skills and proper recording setup for a drum. 98% of people will not be able to tell the difference between a good sounding programmed drum and analogue drums (which will typically have plugin sounds layered on top of them in metal / rock genres anyway), that's just possible with trained ears that producers and professional musicians have.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Knowing you and your expectations of yourself, musically and on a skill level, I'm surprised about you programming drums! Not that that is bad, just surprising. Have you considered maybe programming the shells and playing real cymbals for future stuff? That could be cool since you probably actually know how to play the beats you write.

[@ziggylebon6725]

@@mammothaudioengineering Much appreciated, but I think you overestimate my abilities 😅I haven't really considered recording just the overheads because I greatly struggle with finishing and releasing songs at all. So right now I just like to go with the way of least resistance. Should I ever become more efficient in writing & recording songs, I'll definitely consider trying it out.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

@ziggylebon6725 Understood! Recording overheads only requires a good setup and some prep but it is very doable! I know someone who could really help you with the efficiency you say you struggle with and maybe even writing 😏😏😏😏

[@ziggylebon6725]

@@mammothaudioengineering Dat shameless plug 😜

[@mammothaudioengineering]

@ziggylebon6725 I HAD TO

[@G60syncro]

I'm like 15 seconds in and already 1000% agree!!! When I started, I was gigging with a cheap MIJ 70's Supreme drum that I paid all of 150$. I got new heads and learned to tune them good and started shopping for cymbals because the ones with it were shot!! One was a late 60's Paiste Ludwig Standard 18" that souned a bit thrashy with sharp attack and quick decay, I quite liked that one and it's still on my kit 25 years later!! Then I needed a hi-hat because the one I had was cracked real bad... Got one for cheap but hated it and ended up selling it at a loss when I got my current set of Paiste's... again, 25 years ago! Then, I wanted a ride and I'd played enough to know what I hated of the cheap brass one I had and what I wanted. I found a 70's Zildjian A that I liked. By that time I was playing in bands and that cymbals limitations came through, I loved the sound but itlacked the presence I wanted. I learned about rivets and one night at rehearsal, I brought my drill and put six holes in that sucker and neverhad any regrets!! Again, this one is a daily!! And so on... I had most of the cymbals I own today before I upgraded to my '75 Ludwig Vistalites. Until then, whenI showed up at gigs with my crappy drums, other bands would give me the side eye until we started playing!! Comments were along the lines of "Wow! that was unexpected!!" And of course, cheap drums with proper tuning and a quality set of cymbals will trump any top tier DW or boutique set of drums with an okay cymbal pack!!

[@mammothaudioengineering]

It's crazy how much bad cymbals will ruin things. The shrill noises of a bad crash will haunt any mix!

[@chiefluke210]

Short answer: get the Paiste PST7 lineup. Literally just budget 2002 series. Save up for 2002 cymbals and slowly upgrade over time. When you’re playing live, people who aren’t drummers literally don’t notice. I promise.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Upgrading over time is definitely a great approach!

[@BoxUpMyBones]

I agree. But also I knew a dude that preferred to use cracked, dull cymbals for his recordings. I suppose it gave him the dead, dry sound he wanted. It's easier to add volume and reverb to a dry drum, than try to gate an overbearing cymbal.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

I mean, I am sure there's a time and place for that! It's a bit like using highly specific effects cymbals.

[@buricaliskan]

when tf did you learn so much about drums? daayum!

[@mammothaudioengineering]

That started around 2012 with programming and then diving deeper after the first Atropas album - bought lots of courses, watched many videos and recording them teaches a lot! Drums are awesome

[@DaveONeillDrums]

Absolutely 100% I just bought set for a studio I teach at. I spent over half the budget on a ride, hats, crash - Entry level/ mid level drums can sound great w good heads and tuned properly. Shitty cymbals always sound shitty.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

I'm with you. Entry level drums with some careful tuning are absolutely fine, most of the time.

[@elijahorque5273]

It's not about the gear, it's about the player.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

That's just false - if that was true, none of your favourite players would be that highly specific about the gear choices they make. Gear matters a lot - a bad player just isn't able to get the most out of the good gear.

[@F00Lsmack]

Caveat, this does not apply if you are the type to break your b20 bronze cymbals. If so, buy cheap Wuhans or other cheap b20s to practice not breaking them first. Or keep the nice cymbals for recording/live only and cheap for practice.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Agree - which is why I mentioned that toward the end of the video! Cheap cymbals definitely have their use, they just aren't ideal in the studio, unfortunately

[@camshash]

You can tune a drum, but you cant tune a cymbal

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Exactly! A nice drum IS nice, but cymbals just can't really be fixed.

[@chiefluke210]

Short answer: get the Paiste PST7 lineup. Literally just budget 2002 series. Save up for 2002 cymbals and slowly upgrade over time. When you’re playing live, people who aren’t drummers literally don’t notice. I promise.

[@mammothaudioengineering]

Budget cymbals are fine for certain things, but gear isn't just about what the audience can distinguish or not. It is just as much about making the player feel better which leads to a better performance. Gear DOES matter to a certain degree, even if it isn't everything.