Sorcerer Subclass Tier Ranking in D&D 5e (Part 1)

[@DungeonDudes]

The reason we give Wild Magic an A and not a B is that we acknowledge that some people don’t like it, we know some people ban it at their tables, we had to state in the video that it may not be right for you, but based on our experiences, based on us analyzing what it offers, we think, from our perspective, it’s one of the best subclasses and when used properly can push the sorcerer in a really cool direction allowing advantage on demand, and gaining additional effects which although random, have made some of the most epic combat ending moves in our games. It’s why it’s an A with a “*”because we think it deserves an A, but know that others think it doesn’t and respect their reasons and understand why. Happy rolling!

[@notverygeordie]

It’s the best subclass in the game *if* it’s what floats your boat (spoiler: of course I love it). It’s definitely one of those that proves there is no right or wrong way to play D&D and nobody’s fun is wrong :)

[@coreyloescher3649]

That’s not even the issue with the class, though! The **biggest** problem is that wild magic surge is *entirely* DM-dependent. If your DM is forgetful, vindictive, or simply doesn’t want you to surge because (insert narrative reason here), then you miss out on your marquee subclass feature. Consider how lowly you rated the berserker barbarian (who has a worse version of this issue) and the assassin rogue (who in practice constantly has to ask the dm for surprise, much like how the wild magic sorcerer must ask for their surge). For these reasons wild magic sorcerer really should be considered a C.

[@nilsjonsson4446]

@@coreyloescher3649 Don’t play with a DM that’s vindictive, forgetful or doesn’t want you to play your subclass. That is very different from playing in a campaign that doesn’t let you long rest a lot of get surprise rounds often.

[@OakOracle]

Could be an A... could be a D... could be an S... you just gotta be willing to take that chance ;)

[@gamergunn7139]

Is the polling for Sorcerer Subclasses already closed or where do I go to vote? Cuz my favorite class is Sorcerer and my favored subclass is coming up later so I wanted to vote it

[@fuzzygreentiger]

“Carrying Joe the potted plant” made me picture him like baby Groot crying.

[@joshuatran1556]

I couldn't not imagine the JoCrap potted plant from his sorcerer video

[@joshuahicks7798]

@@joshuatran1556 same brother

[@ninjakirby777]

I imagined flowey from undertale lol

[@gordol66]

I'm picturing a game of Mittens from "Hello From The Magic Tavern" podcast.

[@CharlesUrban]

"Oh, no, not again."

[@darthcarnage12]

About my forth time ever playing D&D, I played a one-shot as a wild magic sorcerer. The first time I cast a spell, I rolled a 1. Then, I rolled another 1 on the D100, meaning I rolled a surge effect on every turn for a minute. I ended up as a giant sheep with illusory butterflies falling around me as I set fire to everything I stepped on and bubbles spewed from my mouth every time I tried to bah. It was glorious.

[@WinterPains]

Now I have a reason to play Wild Magic.

[@treysplawn5877]

I became a house plant and died 10/10 would recommend

[@Or_ros117]

That sounds amazing

[@willstebbins5338]

I’m crying with laughter. Thank you internet stranger

[@CharlesUrban]

"WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE?!" "Thaumic studies, actually. Baaa."

[@coreygardner9803]

Wizard: I have to study and spend time to cast spells Warlock: I made a dark pact to gain magical abilities Bard: My honeyed and magical words can even seduce dragons Sorcerer: My father was the bard

[@snowzerox2868]

Preach

[@Kahuutz]

Lololol I love this 😂

[@dandanner3111]

Thanks Corey... I discovered: Soda coming out of your nose is a real thing.

[@spellister]

Best one ive heard yet!

[@timob1681]

dragonborn sorcerer*

[@chessplayer6632]

I’m making a Clockwork Soul Sorcerer who is actually just a true polymorphed grandfather clock

[@bellossoms]

Cogsworth!

[@coreysells3679]

This is amazing.

[@blakeashby2091]

Genius

[@cueball6969]

This is retarded and I love it

[@twistsnakeanklesvids261]

I know it's been two years, but I wantes to say I hope you told granddadclock jokes. "Hoho! I'm blowing up on TikTok!" *fireball*

[@FlailSnail222]

I want fan art of a clockwork soul sorcerer being annoyed at a wild magic sorcerer for disrupting the order.

[@Venomtankmod]

Funny enough, I’m playing a clockwork who hulks out in a magic thing and rolls on wild magic because by dm home brewed the shift thing. The catch is I target everyone near me, once I specifically target the enemy who triggers me initially

[@TBoring]

Now I want an animated short of a Clockwork Soul and Wild Magic Sorcerer doing Bo Burnham’s “Left Brain, Right Brain” song

[@JoshCWhite]

@@TBoring 🎶I am wild magic I am wild magic you roll on a table to get ridiculous or tragic 🎶

[@cyanide7270]

........oh my god....... i wrote into my backstory a set of twins that are almost polar opposites and didnt think of this..... To be fair though, i wrote them in before Tashas dropped... still, would have been AMAZING.

[@rararasputin8608]

I imagine the Clockwork Sorc as a Discord mod and the Wild Magic Sorc as that one guy causing havoc.

[@trapical]

>"Wild Magic Sorcerer has the most unexpected rankings in the community" The universe wouldn't have it any other way.

[@Halinspark]

I don't like not being in control of the chaos I cause, but I do very much like the possibility of the sorceror's first action in the whole campaign Wild Surge Fireballing the party into a TPK.

[@joshuablack95]

@@Halinspark i had a campaign where the dm said anytime i roll a nat 1 or 20 its a surge and when the party was gathered around a magic item and I rolled a nat 1 on arcana causing a fireball on a party of level 1s

[@michaelmurphy2112]

When a sorcerer turns into a potted plant, they need to say, "Oh, no. Not again."

[@necogreendragon]

Is this a Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy reference? ;)

[@aqacefan]

@@necogreendragon Sure sounds like Agrajag to me!

[@dickonlord]

@@necogreendragon Yes it is :-)

[@tohon]

@@necogreendragon rolling a 41 or 42 gets you the potted plant result

[@LarsaXL]

Arthur Dent did it again!

[@Retlaw32]

A wild magic sorcerer could be a D rank or an S rank? That’s design as intended my guy lmao

[@sirreginaldfishingtonxvii6149]

_Perfection_ "Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level or higher, your DM can have you roll a d20. On a 1, roll a D6 for tier list placement."

[@EM-ec4jo]

Perfectly balanced, as all things should be.

[@OscarGomez-hg8cb]

My dudes* XD

[@alexinfinite7142]

Sips the monkey would agree

[@timob1681]

nah it's definitely just D

[@klavenkarahasan3167]

One time in my game the party was sneaking into a kitchen to get a look at the mysterious chef. They heard a noise coming after they broke into the kitchen. So the wild magic sorcerer cast invisibility. It went wild and they turned into a sheep, so the chef took the sheep to the butcher and they were ready to chop it up when he turned back, still strapped up. It was hilarious.

[@lockwoan01]

My Draconic Bloodline Variant Human Noble sorcerer convinced a group of guards that he was a drunkard who had too much to drink, in order to stop them from investigating an alley too closely, as the rest of the party was trying to meet with an informant to figure out where a buddy of ours was - seems that the guards didn't like the idea of folks just going into an alley to use the bathroom, and steered him towards the inn, which had a bathroom. They never did check that alley, and the party overthrew a corrupt lord.

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

Wouldn't they be an *invisible* sheep?

[@MsKeylas]

@@NotYourAverageNothing true

[@dragonicdoom3772]

Draconic Bloodline could've used a revamp in Fizban's. It would've been sick to gain different features depending on whether your ancestor was a Chromatic, Metallic or Gem Dragon. Especially since Gem Dragons get access to a bunch of other damage types: force, thunder, necrotic, radiant and psychic.

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Yes .where are the Gem Dragon's ? The Topaz Dragon, with Psionics ? Each type could have a bonus to dmg with its specific energy type, and the corresponding Vulnerability to the opposite energy ..

[@badmojo0777]

id settle for some bonus spells based on dragon type :D '

[@HippoEnjoyer]

As I dm, I’d just let them pick a gem dragon and use its damage type for the class.

[@PatentlyWillton]

Cool thing about Draconic Bloodline: you can easily reflavor the red dragon ancestor as being a devilish or Infernal Bloodline. Draconic Resilience --> Infernal Resilience (dragon scales become infernal scales or hide) Elemental Affinity --> Infernal Affinity (namely for fire spells) Dragon Wings --> Devil Wings Draconic Presence --> Infernal Presence (devils are adept at charming and instilling fear)

[@travisbuschette8609]

This is quite clever! Nothing changes but the flavor!

[@asheronwindspear552]

That's some spicy flavour you have there.

[@WinterPains]

And this is why I love DnD. Nothing changes, but its a reskin that allows for more fun.

[@mal2ksc]

I did exactly this to explain tiefling sorcerers prior to the release of Xanathar's. One such NPC remains in the story, but I no longer allow this for new builds because the options have expanded so tremendously since then.

[@Azalin4savioR]

* Black Dragons are associated with Acid not poison

[@necogreendragon]

and green with poison if I remember correctly.

[@rcschmidt668]

Learned about dragons from all the Dragonlance novels! 🤓 Can’t wait for DL material to be released.

[@BrummieRoader]

@@necogreendragon if you don't remember, then you need a new username :D

[@necogreendragon]

@@BrummieRoader Yes but it has changed in paste editions and I forget which we are on in 5e.>_

[@orarinnsnorrason4614]

And the metallic counterpart of the Black dragon is the Bronze dragon.

[@00blaat00]

Anybody else noticed Monty was only able to name the chromatic (evil) dragons by heart?

[@fuzzygreentiger]

Same, played through Tyranny of Dragons and DMing it currently.

[@Deafwing]

@@fuzzygreentiger I'm DMing that module too! *DM high five!*

[@gamergunn7139]

I was gonna comment on that

[@gordonross3270]

Didnt realize that gold was chromatoc

[@prophetisaiah08]

Honestly, Brennan Lee Mulligan's homebrew modification of the Wild Magic sorcerer makes it a LOT more fun to play. It makes the random chance of it far more compelling, as every time you cast a spell, that Wild Magic Surge gets more and more likely.

[@joshuatran1556]

What is the modification?

[@Sathier]

@@joshuatran1556 well, without knowing, I'd probably re write the chance to trigger a surge based on a percentile dice as opposed to a D20. It starts at 05 (5%) or lower. Every spell cast adds to the chance relative to the level of the spell (the high power of said spell adding to a surge chance faster than a low level), and it could be something like +2 for first level spells, +3 for second levels, and so on. And then when a surge triggers, the chance resets to 5%. This is just my personal idea, and how i would likely run it.

[@docnevyn5814]

@@joshuatran1556 The second spell casting/roll a surge happens on a 1 or 2. Third a 1,2, or 3. Etc. Resets to 1 on a surge. Usually happens in the 8-10 range. For me as a viewer, it nicely adds to tension during combats and silliness during RP.

[@prophetisaiah08]

@@joshuatran1556 Every time you roll for Wild Magic Surge and it doesn't happen, the number you have to roll increases by one until it does trigger. The more spells you cast, the more likely it is to go off.

[@joshuatran1556]

@@docnevyn5814 interesting. I have a wild magic sorcerer that I was thinking of giving a magic item that could do similar, but was more tied to Metamagic

[@JoeyTee420]

Love wild magic. I’m playing in a “dual character” campaign, where there are 2 sets of adventuring parties playing in the same world, working together. We all play an adult character, who are standard adventurers, and a child character, who are children of adventurers themselves and have their own talents (adults are level 12, children level 4) I play a child female sorcerer, and she was 8 years old when the adventures started. But I got a wild magic surge and she aged 10 years, and it’s hilarious roleplaying an 8 year old girl in the body of a fully grown adult, just hanging out with a bunch of other kids lol. Definitely could have been bad if I got a 9, and she became -1 years old though hahah

[@WinterPains]

I FORGOT ABOUT THAT ONE.

[@James.D.B.]

I would love to watch that campaign, or be in one like it

[@lockwoan01]

You get "Draconic Resiliance" at Level 1 - 1 extra point of hp, plus AC equal to 13+Dex Mod.

[@ericpeterson8732]

That's why you choose draconic. The hp boost and perma-mage armor makes this sorcerer the most survivable. The wings and elemental boost is just frosting on the cake. Also the draconic is the most basic sorcerer subclass. It doesn't rely on abilities that use up sorcery points, like some of the cooler Xanather subclasses. So you have more to focus on metamagic choices.

[@lockwoan01]

@@ericpeterson8732 Boring, but Practical, especially for someone new to magic.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Tank mage as a utility caster instead of just a boring and relatively useless blasty boi. You don't really need a damage spell for every single level, and Sorcerers don't really have the depth in their known spells to warrant even trying for that. It's just impractical. Just as an example... Copper dragon Sorcerer, Chromatic Orb and Acid Splash, then take Vitriolic Sphere later. Quickened Spell on Blade Ward is easy to overlook, but it's more than worth it with the very limited cantrips Sorcerers get.

[@lockwoan01]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 Well, there's something for everyone.

[@TheZandaz]

"is the ancestor to dragons" it would be very impressive for a simple humanoid to have spawned such a powerful race lol

[@johnhuffman9533]

Q: What ranking is the Wild Sorcerer? A: Yes.

[@jaybird5537]

Had a fun house rule for wild magic where it was instead triggered if you rolled under your sorcerer level on the D20. It was like as the sorcerer grew more powerful, his magic became more wild.

[@Nathan-ny5wj]

I love this idea so much

[@joshuarivero8014]

Can I borrow this idea? Thinking about rolling one of these up for a PbP campaign.

[@jaybird5537]

@@joshuarivero8014 go nuts

[@spencerhess]

In my last campaign I played a wild magic sorcerer, and it was the most fun I’d ever had in D&D. Me and my DM worked out a fun homebrew change to wild magic, where if you cast a 1st level spell a 1 would trigger it, cast a second level spell and a 2 or lower would activate it, and so on. It made an interesting trade-off where higher level spells made wild magic more likely and it was a blast

[@MrPatrick5333]

That's generally a cool idea, I really like that. But what do you do if you roll that 07 - 08 and cast a fireball on your party of level 1 or level 2 player characters? Everyone dies and you just go home because the adventure is over? Today we played a one shot and in the first round of the Endboss encounter I rolled a 50 on the table, meaning I was unable to speak for a minute and whenever I tried, pink bubble emerged from my mouth. Since all my spells required a verbal component and I didn't pick subtle spell among my meta magic options, I was standing in the combat, taking the dodge action because there was just nothing more I could do on my turns. In the end, with one fewer member in our party who could do damage to the boss, we got TPKed and that was it. So not only did I cause the entire group to die because of the wild magic surge, it was also the most boring, frustrating fight of my DnD player career because I just couldn't do anything. Whenever it was my turn I just said "yeah, I use the dodge action... next" I usually really appreciate randomness in a game. I also like the idea of this table and a person who can't really control their inner powers. But if one single die roll causes the entire day of a group of players to be ruined because of the bad design of some of the effects, this isn't really fun anymore and nothing I would recommend to anyone without using a homebrew wild magic surge table.

[@mikaylameans1939]

@@MrPatrick5333 I'm playing with a pretty small adventuring party and my DM and I have sat down and looked over the whole table and gone through and looked at the balance on most things and the "can't speak for a minute and pink bubbles come out instead" was literally the only one that we agreed could lead to a TPK with our three players. Even fireball on yourself didn't get that level of "oh shit this could kill everyone." We've balanced it out so that when it happens in combat, it's a single turn instead of ten, in case anyone needed an idea of how to balance it.

[@ddevlin13]

Dungeon Dudes: I think you may have made a mistake. According to D&D Beyond, Draconic Resilience comes online at level 1, not Level 3

[@jelte3754]

I think my Player's Handbook agrees with your dndbeyond

[@snazzyfeathers]

Draconic Resilience and the Tough feat for an extra beefy sorcerer.

[@danroscigno187]

Same here, online and my players' handbook say 1st level.

[@Booklat1]

@@snazzyfeathers hill dwarf lel

[@Booklat1]

oh and responding OP, that is precisely why this feature is so good being able to skip learning mage armor is pretty decent, allows you to know 1 damage and 1 utility spell in lvl 1without dropping defense

[@Daggoth65]

Honestly, for Dragonblood Sorc I just let them take an element appropriate version of there spells that exist

[@misterdayne2792]

The fact that you have to spend points on becoming resistant to the same type of damage that your ancestor was immune to os kind of bs. And the amount of spells sorcerers can learn is just too small. Have it be sorcerer level + charisma modifier just like the other full casters!

[@InquisitorThomas]

@@misterdayne2792Yeah the Draconic Sorcerer is one of the biggest victim of power creep/PHB syndrome. If they made the Draconic bloodline for Tasha’s you probably would have gotten an always on resistance at level 1 or something.

[@chrisv.h.2307]

I am here for Kelly's t-shirt collection, and once again am not disappointed.

[@dannyhill5640]

I really don’t like the transmuted spell metamagic. As a DM if my player takes the green dragon origin I’m just going to let them reskin spells to change the elemental damage type. I really don’t see it being that over powered

[@kellywelch2515]

Same here. Also, if you are a fire based sorcerer and face a red dragon or fire elemental.. .. just buff the party instead. Problem solved

[@THEGRUMPTRUCK]

Pretty much the same. Fireball and lightning exist. I also just put in ice, poison, and acid variants of it that do same damage.

[@jameswhite3043]

Same

[@LethalLemonade]

Unless you allow them to change the damage types of spells they've already chosen, then the transmuted spell still helps them if they run into someone immune to their Poisonball or whatever

[@Uhshawdude]

I do that too, but I do like the versatility it gives you. Since sorcerers know so few spells as it is, it's nice that they don't have to feel like they have to take several damage spells just to avoid resistance/immunity, and encourages thematic spell selection without screwing them if they run into an immune creature.

[@Luna_Everywhere]

I feel like "roll to find out if you wild magic" being done every time is how it should be. You didnt pick the subclass to NOT roll on that table. If you don't want that, you didnt pick the class.

[@MrPatrick5333]

Yes but what do you do if you roll that 07 - 08 and cast a fireball on your party of level 1 or level 2 player characters? Everyone dies and you just go home because the adventure is over? Today we played a one shot and in the first round of the Endboss encounter I rolled a 50 on the table, meaning I was unable to speak for a minute and whenever I tried, pink bubble emerged from my mouth. Since all my spells required a verbal component and I didn't pick subtle spell among my meta magic options, I was standing in the combat, taking the dodge action because there was just nothing more I could do on my turns. In the end, with one fewer member in our party who could do damage to the boss, we got TPKed and that was it. So not only did I cause the entire group to die because of the wild magic surge, it was also the most boring, frustrating fight of my DnD player career because I just couldn't do anything. Whenever it was my turn I just said "yeah, I use the dodge action... next" I usually really appreciate randomness in a game. I also like the idea of this table and a person who can't really control their inner powers. But if one single die roll causes the entire day of a group of players to be miserable because of the bad design of some of the effects, this isn't really fun anymore

[@Luna_Everywhere]

@@MrPatrick5333 You have a discussion before the game if a Wild Sorceror is right for your game, and if the 0.1% chance of that happening (roll a 1 to Wild Surge * the 2% chance of fireball) happens, either decide "no it didnt because thats a stupid end to this campaign", or be running the kind of game where that's ok

[@cidlunius1076]

You picked it to be a menace, banned.

[@seymur7422]

@@MrPatrick5333 Why didn't you took a dagger and use melee?

[@fullmetalonly450]

I want an update so that all sorcerer subclasses get spells known like aberrant mind and clockwork.

[@logancuster8035]

Ted at the Nerd Immersion channel had made several videos in that regard.

[@dennisjordan5917]

I imagine most reasonable dungeon masters would be willing to work with you to make a list of spells that would fit the subclasses that don’t have one already. I’m working on a list for wild magic sorcerer right now.

[@fullmetalonly450]

@@dennisjordan5917 i know I would. And as Logan said, nerd immersion has some great content regarding.

[@dasvinnifala]

Same, and also for Warlocks

[@imjusthereforbagelsandmone662]

All I'm going to say is that having Inflict Wounds as a Divine Soul sorcerer and being able to use distant spell to cast it at a range of 30 ft has come in handy a lot during my campaign 😂

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

If you had 2 enemies right next to you, you could also use Twinned Spell Metamagic to attempt to hit both with Inflict Wounds.. I usually use a Twinned Guiding Bolt to give team mates Advantage on two targets at range..

[@H4LFsanity]

If a wild magic sorcerer stands 30 feet away from their party when casting, they can basically only hurt themselves. Bonus points if you blitz the enemy line and end up damaging them more. Fortune favors the bold, or something.

[@evilsquirrel0573]

Wild Magic sorcerer is one of the most fun sounding and best subclasses that I would personally never want to play

[@Gilphon]

Wild Magic is kind of the definition of a B tier to me; it's the most DM and table-dependant subclass in the game.

[@aidancampbell5644]

When I look back at the most memorable moments in my AD&D experience, a huge chunk of them involved wild magic. I will admit to having owned magic items that made me resistant or immune to fireball and flesh to stone spells in a lot of those groups. However, I kind of love that the wild magic kit can be anything from S tier to D tier.... its seems completely appropriate to wild magic.

[@Vespiria67]

I've waited so long, sorcerer is my favorite class in the game

[@Andrea_she-her]

Same

[@Vespiria67]

@@Andrea_she-her I'm very excited to see them review the divine soul and aberant mind subclasses as I see those as easily the best sorcerer subclasses. Sadly that's not going to be this video.

[@swordsman111982]

I love the sorcerer so much. There are way to many people that just play it as a gimped wizard, when they should be maximizing spell slot / meta magic options.

[@darienb1127]

@@swordsman111982 my issue with the Sorcerer is that i don't feel that you get enough Metamagic options. Why do you only get 4 options by the time you are level 17?

[@swordsman111982]

@@darienb1127 I agree, that’s why I love the new Tasha’s feat. I don’t know why they didn’t just give Sorcerer full access to all the Meta Magic. Might be overwhelming for new players, but Clerics aren’t the easiest thing to play either for new people.

[@robinnordenstein]

Fun fact: I once saved my whole party by having a fireball detonating at myself and everyone in our party. We were surrounded by tons of enemies and were in quite some trouble. Sure, my crew also took damage, but totally worth it!

[@nickm9102]

Was that Wild Magic? Because I Have been that player and sometimes NOT an evoker. Me: "I need everyone within 20 feet of me to make a DEX save as I cast Fireball." DM: "Where at?" Me: holds clawed hand palm up at shoulder level, "About here." DM: "That will get these two and PC X." Me: "He wouldn't intentionally hit his friends but right now he is a bit distracted, It's still there." If the other person had an issue I would have changed it but even he said that is how my Sorcerer would be.

[@robinnordenstein]

@@nickm9102 Lol that's one way of doing it. In my case, it was def Wild magic x)

[@asherandai1000]

@@nickm9102 Best thing I've ever seen was a wild mage get surrounded, elect to cast a fireball on himself since he was resistant to fire, wild surge up a second fireball to go with his fireball.

[@MsKeylas]

@@asherandai1000 epitome of a suicide nuke

[@preacherjohn]

@@asherandai1000 did he survive the double boom?

[@Kuribohcoast]

I really wish Wizards would go and write Known Spell lists for the non-Tasha's options.

[@geoffbarnes2590]

Totally agree. Had a couple divine soul sorcerers in my games recently, been letting them pick from the cleric domain known spells with whatever fits the character best

[@cfoscoop]

@@geoffbarnes2590 That’s what I have done as well! As for the other subclasses, if a player wants to play a certain subclass, I’ll make a spells known list for them, it’s such an easy fix to make them feel so much more useful

[@geoffbarnes2590]

@@cfoscoop my man

[@dennisjordan5917]

Yeah it makes the sorcerer more versatile and useful without really making them more powerful is a way that would unbalance the game.

[@dane-banks]

@@cfoscoop I do the same thing. Base it off of the tasha ones and allow them to swap them based on specific schools

[@maineventmark]

In our games, the DM makes our wild magic sorc roll every time she casts a leveled spell. She turned herself blue permanently and then turned herself into a sheep. She then proceeded to continually headbutt the big bad and nearly killed it before the polymorph broke. It was so much fun.

[@notoriousthief]

It's a D for whenever the DM decides to never trigger wild magic, which makes half of the features obsolete, and you will almost never have tides of chaos. It's an S if the dm makes you roll constantly because then you will have tides of chaos active incredibly often.

[@cory849]

Every DM should let Tides of Chaos go every possible time.

[@jjjbjbbnjbjbjbjbjb9415]

@@cory849 Agreed. But that should be what the ability says, you can't rank a class based on how it should be, but on what it is. Four Elements monk should make you feel like the Avatar, not like you forgot to take a subclass. The same is often the case with Wild Magic.

[@notoriousthief]

@@jjjbjbbnjbjbjbjbjb9415 just to make it spicier, I took a note out of Jordan's wild magic sorcerer from Arcane Arcade where the DC roll for surge is 2, and DC goes up by one whenever you don't surge, and resets to 2 when you do. Also all spells of level 1 or higher require you to roll a d20 rather than the DM making you roll. This was approved by my DM and the players.

[@NotYourAverageNothing]

@@cory849 I’m ok with rolling Wild Magic Surge every time, but not Tides of Chaos. Advantage on nearly everything is way too much, especially at level 1.

[@cory849]

@@NotYourAverageNothing it's fine, honestly. Played it at our table for a whole campaign. It wasn't overpowered. Resetting it still requires using a spell slot - and you don't have a lot of those at level 1 - and a 33% chance of a bad outcome. And theres no advantage on lots of tempting spells like fireball. For cantrips it's a nice little boost. For spells with an attack roll is great because those spells are terrible. It feels so bad to burn a spell slot and miss. And the advantage is very much in theme with sorcerers being the combat effective mages. Trust me trust me trust me. It's great. Do it.

[@siriswarrior]

I adore wild magic sorcerers. As a DM I love it when someone brings them to the table. They just add so much fun

[@MrPatrick5333]

But what do you do if you roll that 07 - 08 and cast a fireball on your party of level 1 or level 2 player characters? Everyone dies and you just go home because the adventure is over? Today we played a one shot and in the first round of the Endboss encounter I rolled a 50 on the table, meaning I was unable to speak for a minute and whenever I tried, pink bubble emerged from my mouth. Since all my spells required a verbal component and I didn't pick subtle spell among my meta magic options, I was standing in the combat, taking the dodge action because there was just nothing more I could do on my turns. In the end, with one fewer member in our party who could do damage to the boss, we got TPKed and that was it. So not only did I cause the entire group to die because of the wild magic surge, it was also the most boring, frustrating fight of my DnD player career because I just couldn't do anything. Whenever it was my turn I just said "yeah, I use the dodge action... next" I usually really appreciate randomness in a game. I also like the idea of this table and a person who can't really control their inner powers. But if one single die roll causes the entire day of a group of players to be miserable because of the bad design of some of the effects, this isn't really fun anymore. It's nothing I would recommend to anyone without using a homebrew wild magic surge table.

[@siriswarrior]

@@MrPatrick5333 yeah that kind of stuff can happen for sure. But its rare. More often than not I've always seen it but fun chaos, not frustrating.

[@jagd7102]

​@@MrPatrick5333 Theres a wild magic sorc in one of my current campaigns, and yes, its a mixed bag, especially with the custom d1000 table we're using. For example, they rolled amazingly, and combined a "your next spell is 300% more powerful" role witj Chaos Bolt to do 244 damage in a turn at 2nd level and save us from an unwinable combat encounter. One in a thousand odds it was a perfect moment. Then later in that same dungeon they rolled what you did, got silenced and were unable to cast any spells. We survived though since my artificer brought grenades lol. Point is, even the bad rolls have a tendency of working out well.

[@Beth-cj7ip]

"... Even if the dungeon master makes you roll every time..." You make it sound like that's a bad thing

[@evannewell7985]

I'm playing a Halfling Wild-Magic Sorcerer, and he is so much fun! Our DM plays into the surges, and they become memorable moments for every session -- including a unicorn showing up in the middle of our very first big combat and saving our collective asses. He's like a little lightning rod running around.

[@jayharyu927]

Yes, finally, it’s my time! Sorcerors are my favorite class by a LONG way, so this is so exciting!

[@BlackWolfC091]

I have been waiting for a Sorcerer tier list video from ya’ll for so long! I am glad to see that you both appreciate the Wild Magic Sorcerer too!

[@Sivick314]

"he's the ancestor to dragons" i think you meant descendent

[@kev_whatev]

You never know

[@unproffessionelll9103]

maybe he's multiclassing into bard

[@notizbuch3289]

Ancestor to dragons would be an interesting campaign idea

[@WeDwellinaFiefdom]

He’s his own grandpa

[@parade6271]

@@unproffessionelll9103 lmfao

[@DerpyLaron]

I love the Wild Magic Sorcerer, but it probably is the most DM dependend subclass in all of 5e. You could litrally never use your class featuere or every single turn. It is such a swing...just like the subclass itself. Also Kelly where did you get that amaizing shirt. I need one.

[@docnevyn5814]

You are right, but Illusionist is pretty close.

[@daviddalrymple2284]

@@docnevyn5814 Of course, the Illusionist is mainly dependent on whether your DM applies the rules as written, like if they let players get away with using Minor Illusion to create images of creatures (instead of just objects). The rules around Wild Magic are entirely discretionary.

[@comyuse9103]

@@docnevyn5814 illusions are something the dm reacts to, the wild magic stuff a dm has to actively remember and engage with themselves, unless they want to simply do it every single time the player casts a spell (which goes against everything wild about wild magic, imo)

[@Tigerblade11238]

It's really hard to say any PHB sorcerer can get an A or S when held up against the Tasha's options. Without a known spells list, neither of these can be above a B, IMO. This argument has been used in prior videos, and this is not the class I think is the exception to the rule.

[@logancuster8035]

Hard agree. Situational abilities have been used against every archetype now except the Wild Magic sorcerer as well.

[@Gilphon]

Mhm. Tasha's kind of power crept Sorcerer's. I think Divine Soul still holds up, but Shadow and the PHB subclasses are being left in the dust a bit.

[@Booklat1]

draconic is by no means bad, specially if you consider that you never need to learn mage armor at all. Pretty good use of known spells in tier 1 the thing is both divine and draconic start feeling pretty weak compared against the new classes between lvls 3 to 14 (and honestly even after that even though flight is pretty good). That is most of the campaign though fire draconic tieflings are still an interesting blaster build but I can hardly find reasons to play divine soul instead of clockwork soul shoutout to storm sorcery as a target for metamagic adept for being the most economic sorcerer with sorc points but also extremely weak compared to other classes (if only its flight was spread between lvls better)

[@pda8987]

The thing is that free DC from Draconic works as "known Mage Armor" which suddenly increase your eHP very well (and believe, it is an issue when you have smart enemies), including that you now also have +1 free spell slot or you can now cast Mage Armor on someone else, boosting their AC very high. And also it comes online on lvl1, which is very good for early tables. 6th level brings "known Absorb Elements lite" which you can active on any spell cast. And tbh you not having any problems with amount of spells known because usually you have 1-2 spells per level which is you pick due to how elemental magic is forgotten minus fire. And Wild Magic dice manipulations are very powerful if you use it in the right situations because suddenly passing that DEX saving throw and being able to stand on your feet or giving boss -4 to important saving throw could change tides of battle in your favor very quickly. And the chance for backfire is memed too much to how much it really happens at the table (especially if your DM is conservative with Surge resets).

[@ultimatekie]

@@Gilphon As someone playing a shadow sorcerer I still feel like it holds up because of the hound of ill omen ability, makes spells that save every turn way more viable. Of course it absolutely does not compare to the Tasha Sorcerers but it's still good and an easy A ranking imo.

[@David-xq3ec]

My wild magic sorcerer mid fight levitated Into the air shone with a bright light and then turned invisible. It was awesome.

[@MSDoL]

in one of the earlier levels fight vs a troll in a mine we had a huge (2 size ups) childish (he went 10 years younger from 21 to 11) dragonborn with a feathered beard rolling in the mud he summoned. He fell on the troll and restrained him and the rest of the party finished it. Was pretty hilarious, definitely would advice to use the advantage rule on every ocasion.

[@what_Love_Drew_forth]

I loved playing the Draconic Bloodline sorcerer when 5e first came out. I'd definitely give it an A!

[@mrbill_oh_no]

Awesome stuff dudes! Thanks so much! You produce the absolute best breakdown for all things D&D.

[@mitchc6059]

I heard a story from the group I play with before I joined,where the sorcerer fireballs the party followed the very next turn with a fireball from the enemy wizard. It was a TPK. This highlights the reckless and dangerous nature of the class. The good results simply dont outweigh the possibility of knocking your own teeth out and now a challenging encounter is deadly because a shield spell malfunctioned..

[@Ghorda9]

you can counter this with a more close encounter playstyle where you stay away from your allies and as close as you can to your enemies, using defensive and escape spells to stay alive.

[@eggreg]

These subclass series is one of my favorite you guys do.

[@WearingGoldluck]

I think that Wild Magic is the epitome of a B rank class, in the right campaign, its a S, but in the wrong one, its a D tier, which in my opinion, is a B tier class, however, I’ll give it the A with an asterisk.

[@christiankougher3285]

I disagree, but agree at the same time. I think the wild magic is dependant on player/ dm. With the right player and dm, it is s in every campaign, but with the wrong players and dm it is d. Since B tier is campaign dependant it shouldn't really qualify there. But you could also argue that the dm is part of the campaign features soni understand nonetheless.

[@biorph8597]

Agreed, by thier own rules with the way it breaks down being so dependent on factors, it feels like B.

[@codymarshall587]

@@christiankougher3285 okay but doesn’t the qualification of “right campaign” come down to the aspects given to it by the DM and also the climate of player attitude towards the subclass?

[@codymarshall587]

If not, what is the B tier?

[@christiankougher3285]

@@codymarshall587 something campaign itself based. If you play a pyromancer in descent to avernus you suck but if you play that same character in something where everyone is weak to fire you're great, and just average everywhere else... But I think wild magic sorcerer is much more than that because if you have the right people with it, it's S in every campaign which would break the b-tier rule

[@SpencerCHale]

Kelly I just wanna shout out all your Pride D&D shirts. They bring me a lot of feels :-)

[@Vile_Oreo]

I played a wild magic sorcerer in adventurer's league and most DMs wouldn't let me get tides of chaos back. I'd ask whether I got it back ad nauseum and it was always no. Other than tides of chaos, it's a 1 in 20 chance to even get to roll on this table. If you don't get tides back you're basically playing half a subclass. I spent my experiences wishing I was playing the draconic sorcerer.

[@GrahamChapman]

I wouldn't blame the class for that sub-par experience; clearly your DM was being a spoilsport. :/

[@johnramos2391]

But that's the thing. If your DM hates this subclass and is never gonna give you tides back. That's something you should know.

[@luvetohate]

You guys have the only youtube channel that makes me wish for a new video every day. I check your channel every day hoping. That said, I'm really looking forward to the wizard subclass tier list as I'm thinking of making a Wizard Divination school and I want to know how well it works in practice! :D

[@DungeonDudes]

I can tell you right now, it’s near the top.

[@nathanbaca5131]

My favorite moment in all of drakkenheim was when Sebastian triggered the staff of power’s wild magic surge and summoned Charles the unicorn who saved the party in an intense encounter.

[@richard_n]

This was one of your best videos on ranking subclasses. You really made me think of things on both classes that I hadn't considered at all.

[@annonymousburnell212]

if you star tat first level as a wild magic, and you roll on the wild magic table, there is like a 5% chance you end the game by fire balling everyone. Its great and i love it!

[@wheatsale]

I couldn't agree more about running the wild magic sorcerer subclass in such a way to take every opportunity possible to roll on the table. I am running a campaign right now with a player who is playing a wild magic sorcerer, and after asking their input, that's how we decided to run the character. It's been a ton of fun, already a favorite moment in the campaign was when a unicorn showed up in the middle of fight as the result of a wild magic surge. If your DM is running the wild magic sorcerer this way, I think tides of chaos becomes incredibly strong, since it's free advantage on most of your rolls, and the risk reward factor of having to roll on the table next time you cast a spell after using it is super fun. The problem with the wild magic sorcerer is that the features are so DM dependent though, and if your DM is never asking you to make those rolls, you never get cool surges, and tides of chaos becomes advantage once per long rest, which is so much weaker than it could be. Bend luck becomes like the only useful feature at that point, and it's such a shame. My advice, talk to your DM about this subclass before choosing it. It has the potential to be so good and so much fun, but it really hinges on how they are willing to run it.

[@kparish05]

Re wild magic sorcerer- kinda feels like you are weighing it heavily by RP standards and you have said before that you try not to rank on that. But I agree - depends on players and DM to make it “memorable”. Handling the Chaos REALLY depends on how well the GM can roll with it.

[@firefang92]

I've had some amazing memories with wild magic. Two of my favorite are: Valenos the Paladin/sorcerer in a very high tuned combat focused campaign turning into a potted plant in the middle of a tense combat leaving the warlock alone with some big beasties....the warlock died clutching a potted plant. And Voleem Killerraptor I, a 6 year old magical being made in a lab that managed to, through some good persuasion roles, talk a shadow council into installing him as the puppet king of the nation, when his citizens revolted he proceeded to blast a tree with a fireball and thanks to a wild magic surge immediately begin glowing with a holy golden light, that really put the peasantry back in line.

[@UltimosGabriel]

Nice, I just needed it. Subclass tier's are my favorites of all.

[@marcusstusek5843]

I love the Wild Magic Sorcerer so much, and was so worried it would get a low ranking. Very happy to have my love validated by you guys. One of my favourite times playing my wild magic sorcerer was when I rolled a 01 whilst fighting a Beholder, then rolled at the start of each of my turns for the next minute. I got enlarged, I became terrified of one of my party members, I became invisible, I had flumphs and Modrons appears around me, and more. And all the while, I kept running in an out of the anti magic zone from the Beholder's central eye, so I kept having those effects jump into and out of relevance - absolutely amazing. We finished the fight with 5 more rounds left to go, but also with an explosion set to go off in 4 rounds, and I couldn't get closer to my party because I was scared of them, Oh man! it was epic! and just so much fun.

[@kylefitzpatrick7173]

My wild magic sorcerer started as a ~30year old male human and ended as a 7year old female dwarf. She also wild magic cast darkness on the main catapult tower during a fortress defense scenario. No regrets!

[@iampierce7474]

I think you underrated Draconic because you focused on the damage types mostly, the bonus hit points on top of permanent mage armor is incredible for low level features, and the flight is just amazing

[@swordsman111982]

My current Curse of Strahd campaign has a Wild Magic Sorcerer with the Lucky feat. His dice manipulation is so annoying and awesome! It’s such a fun character.

[@DHTheAlaskan]

You know a character is a good character if you can frustrate the DM without being deliberately dickish.

[@swordsman111982]

@@DHTheAlaskan the word disadvantage mean nothing to him, I am kind of routing for him more than the other players lol.

[@DrCinnabon]

Played w/ a Kobold Wild Sorcerer at an Adventurer's League Convention. In one turn, she exploded, downed the whole party, reincarnated as a Dwarf, and began bringing the party back. This is an absolute "WTF just happened" machine.

[@binolombardi]

I replayed the “unique duck” part a couple of times to look at your faces when it happened. Was pretty funny.

[@wiredkamikaze5831]

I'm playing an Aberant Mind Sorcerer from UA before the Tasha changes (although the changes are minor). The AMS is fantastic hands down. Granted I've only made it to 6th level, but man this sorcerer feels good. Looking forward to your breakdown of it in part 3.

[@TheHornedKing]

Something I like to do with the dragon sorcerer is looking at what other abilities my dragon ancestor has, and choose spells that fit those. If we look at a black dragon for example, it has a lair action and a regional effect related to water, so maybe pick up some water related spells too?

[@3ndlessL00p]

My most chaotic player just asked to be a Wild Magic Sorcerer, so great timing my dudes! One thing I just love for Wild Magic Sorcerers is weirdly having them be the charismatic character talking to npcs and disguising spells with subtle spell... With the added tension of the situation potentially literally blowing up in their face due to Wild Magic Surge. Though there is no way I am not tweaking the d100 table to give more opportunities for the team to improvise or roleplay around the wild magic. For instance, I have homebrewed the "fireball centered on self" into a weaker delayed blast fireball spawning on the sorcerers chest. That way my players will have to figure out what to about it before it detonates - try to remove it with a dex check? Forcibly triggering it before it builds up enough damage to wipe them all? I think that's cooler than "oops you blew up at 1st level".

[@angellopez6475]

I was waiting for this one and still waiting for the wizard subclass video.

[@ashleyhoughton8592]

Pretty sure it's alphabetical so that'll be a while 😥

[@spencerhess]

In my last campaign I played a wild magic sorcerer, and it was the most fun I’d ever had in D&D. Me and my DM worked out a fun homebrew change to wild magic, where if you cast a 1st level spell a 1 would trigger it, cast a second level spell and a 2 or lower would activate it, and so on. It made an interesting trade-off where higher level spells made wild magic more likely and it was a blast

[@andrewthemaroon8608]

My group doesnt bother with Transmuted Spells. We just hombrewed that when you learn a spell you can decide at that time what type of damage it is. If you want to fireball then its fire damage. However if you already have frieball and want to learn Iceball then you have to go out and find someone who has it and treat it like a new spell all together

[@jierdareisa4313]

Clever. There are more than a few classes/subclasses in D&D that can and should be tweaked. This way, players are less inclined to pick the "go to" option, but A) you have to be reallllly careful with your homebrew not to unbalance the game and B) well, Dungeon Dudes are comparing the stock classes, and if we start taking hombrew into account, every class will be S-tier ^^ But yeah, done right (and I think that is mostly the cas with what you did) it WILL make D&D a better game.

[@andrewthemaroon8608]

@@jierdareisa4313 agreed homebrewing can easily break the system. The way i mentioned just makes it easier to play those damage types that are forgotten. I feel like this way is easier then having to develop new spells specifically for the damage type. And developing spells isnt as easy as the DMG makes it out to be. So just swapping out the damage types lets you have those characters that specialize in one element but also not be hindered by lack of spells.

[@snazzyfeathers]

Thats what I was thinking. Its definitely easier but its still good for moments when your default element isn't good to use in certain situations

[@jierdareisa4313]

@@andrewthemaroon8608 well it IS a rather simple yet elegant solution

[@conmh8461]

I've been waiting for this video since this series started. Sorcerer is my favorite class. So excited!

[@marksimons974]

I think both player and DM opinions on Wild Magic is usually informed by personal experience or from stories they heard. If you had an experience like these dudes then you probably would see it more favourably, but if like myself you planned out a campaign that abruptly ended after 3 session because of a fireball during a social encounter you may see it less favourably.

[@shino4242]

Yeah, that time where you were having some fun in the middle of the city and accidentally killed yourself and tons of innocents around you and caused god knows how much in property damage was...memorable and interesting I guess, but memorable and interesting aren't inherently good. They say it ONLY has a 20% chance of screwing you...but if you had a 20% chance to crit, that would be broken. And in a negative aspect, it's playing Russian roulette and you're going second. Pretty good chance to live but...is that chance worth taking? And from a role play point of view, I feel like every wild mage would need to either be totally nuts or absolutely terrified of using magic and refusing to do so (in which case you're probably just a level 1 sorcerer and immediately multiclass to something else. The adventurer like is dangerous and unpredictable as is, why would other adventurers want to team up with this ticking time bomb? Most people never would want to party with a WM sorcerer. Everyones too distracted by the "haha, this class is so quirky and cool!" aspects and seem to ignore everything else both mechanically and in-universe. It's fun. It can be good. Heck I'm not gonna argue the math, it WILL be good 80% of the time as they said...but this hype and love is excessive and undeserving.

[@bcaiko]

It’s nice to see you two in the same room again! Awesome shirt, Kelly - DRAGON PRIDE!

[@wayneslater5531]

Dungeon Dudes: a "B-tier ranking is a good choice that is S-tier in the right game" Also Dungeon Dudes: Wild Magic can be any rank from S-tier to D-tier depending on the campaign/DM/other players. Also Dungeon Dudes: We give Wild Magic an A-Tier ranking. :D I love you guys, but by your own definitions in the Intro, Wild Magic should probably be a B-tier.

[@hweidigiv]

The point is that in many games, it ISN'T a good choice. A "B Tier" subclass shouldn't ever be a bad choice, like D Tier is, but Wild Mage can be exactly that, depending on the GM and the table.

[@jeffreycrowder2866]

Monty's passion for the wild magic was very evident. Great video guys and Kelly did another great job of conveying his thoughts.

[@trappyboi8678]

There's a very clear bias between the Draconic Sorcerer vs Arcane Trickster. You hold the draconic sorcerer down due to not all options given to you being equal in power however the same applies to the Arcane Trickster as you require very specific spells in order for it to be an S tier subclass and you yourselves pointed that out but never changed the ranking. The Draconic Sorcerer should be held to the same rules as the Arcane Trickster and thus placed at A Rank just like the Arcane Trickster was placed at S due to you knowing all the quote on quote ''best & optimized spells for the class''.

[@esgeir9499]

I think the reason arcane trickster was s tier is because an arcane trickster built right can handle everything a rogue would want to do and can mimic a lot of the other subclass features, the draconic sorcerer it seems to limit you to a damage type, I don't know if its bad and i see where you are coming from but I think it's about comparing the subclasses within class :) maybe there are better sorcerer subclasses, I personally like the divine and shadow sorcerer

[@DungeonDudes]

@@esgeir9499 We have our biases and don't try to hide them. Everything you see on this channel is our opinion based on our subjective experience. On the second point, we rank the subclasses in comparison to the other subclasses available to that class, not across classes. In this case the Draconic Sorcerer is simply not as good in our opinion as many of the newer subclasses.

[@Calebgoblin]

Honestly I never used to like sorcerers very much, but I have only very recently decided to build one for a new game and I think this video came at just the right time to reinforce that!

[@BubblingBrooke]

Everything but the table is good for Wild Magic sorc, but the table itself makes it the most selfish choice for subclass. It feels like it was designed for the person primarily having fun is the player who's the sorc. Its flavorful for sure, but you only need to be friendly fired once for it to be soured.

[@squashwash4381]

Thank you for the guide videos all these years. Last year when I started my first campaign we only had the phb, and with advice from you my wife made a fire-based draconic sorcerer variant human with elemental adept, twin, and quicken. I totally agree it could have gone so wrong with a different build, or if we had devil's etc. But so far nothing stops her and she seems to be having lots of fun with mix of blasting and utility spells, and she's very tanky and always feels like she gets full use of her turns. Anyway, all those build ideas are right out of your guides, and it's meant we started right and avoided the major possible pitfalls.

[@eronadaluce3793]

According to your rules Wild Magic should be "B" because it has the possibility of being "S" at the right table but does not work for some other tables

[@OscarGomez-hg8cb]

I think the big difference is that their stablished guidelines are depending on how a subclass can perform in different campaigns... not in different *tables*. The same subclass, let’s say ancients paladin, can be amazing in a campaign with heavy fey presence, but won’t be that good beyond the normal paladin features in something like dragon heist. The wild magic sorcerer doesn’t really depend on the context of the campaign, but on the context of how you are playing the game and who you are playing with.

[@fulcagay1277]

Exactly, I don’t like that they ended up ranking it an A just because they have good memories and epic plays with it, they’re taking roleplaying as major consideration, which they always they they don’t at the beginning of the video :/

[@kiwiviking175]

Can't wait for Part 2 gentlemen! Bravo!

[@grizzlednerd4521]

My issue with Wild Magic is that a player's subclass choice at first level will, given time, probably kill other party members. Apart from Fireball, I think there's 6 other surge effects which are generally harmful to the PCs and another 8 which can be in some circumstances. e.g. Two of you party are down and making death saves, you wild surge and roll a 83 doing 1d10 Necrotic to everyone (else) within 30 feet of you...causing your downed party members to each fail a Death Save...or you roll a 73 and your paladin is now poisoned...or you roll a 69 and the entire party is invisible, making it impossible for the cleric to effectively cast . If you want a game where the players aren't invested in their characters, then sure...dice or die might be "fun"...until it's not. I don't run those sorts of games, so would be looking at a Wild Surge table which couldn't kill the OTHER PCs or just vetoing Wild Magic sorcerers at my table.

[@aaronhumphrey2009]

Good point . Most PCs won't appreciate being damaged/ killed by ' team mates '.. P vs. P is Not a dynamic that builds trust/ cooperation.. It's Far more likely to result in P vs P open combats/ deaths..

[@intergalactic92]

10:51 this hit our draconian sorcerer pretty hard in a recent one shot. We entered the attic of the, definitely not Amazon Parody, warehouse and discovered Bey-Zos, a red dragon that immediately attacked us. The red dragon sorcerer on his first turn said "uh, I've only got fire spells….." So he hung around in the corner doing not a lot, whilst the rest of us fought the dragon. He did perk up when the Orc entrepreneur Elon Tusk entered the fight.

[@georgewashington7083]

Laughs in pathfinder with 50 bloodlines Jokes aside, great vid!

[@evilsquirrel0573]

Every time I learn something new about pathfinder it never fails to shock me, that’s too many dang bloodlines homie

[@georgewashington7083]

@@evilsquirrel0573 laughs harder in wildblooded archetype, which changes some of the bloodline features, and crossblooded, which gives you 2 bloodlines with some drawbacks.

[@Lykagame]

My first ever game of D&D was as a Wild Magic sorcerer, and in the 4 hours I played I'd managed to turn myself into a sheep with my very first spell, had butterflies following me everywhere, and began to glow so bright that I blinded the player who's shoulders I was standing on leading to a minor scuffle that almost ended up with us getting crushed by a spike trap. That chaos is just so entertaining at times.

[@jonmajid4886]

Best part of my day!!!!

[@Kabissz]

Found this series, cheered, realized I play warlock and have to wait quite a bit. Thank you for the excercise in patience :D !

[@willmena96]

I like Wild Magic, but I'd never risk killing the party with a random Fireball xD Maybe if the table had different results based on your level it would be safer, idk

[@theyonlycomeoutwhenitsquiet]

Safe? Who said anything about safe? ‘Course it isn’t safe. But it’s good.

[@snazzyfeathers]

It's always fun to homebrew parts of the Wild Magic Table. You can replace fireball with another spell or an entirely different effect.

[@cjslime8847]

I like that idea like well you are Channelling more magic so the magic is likely to be stronger I haven’t read the table but if it can turn someone into a sheep with 5/10,000 chance on every spell at best or worse whatever way you are looking at it that is a lot of powerful magic

[@vsh608]

Our group enjoys the Wild Magic table to the point where my Druid was using it everytime he cast a spell because of his sickness. In one of the most hilarious and terrifying moments in our current campaign, he turned into a potted plant as we all got hit with a Cone of Cold that would have tpked our entire party if my Warlock (I played two characters) hadn't counterspelled it. We were in a state of shock, but by the end of the session we were joking around about the Druid just chilling as a plant in such an important moment

[@dracone4370]

He said "ancestor to dragons" not 'has a dragon as an ancestor', which would be more accurate

[@Arkrouyle]

Had a really cool homebrew as where as the wild magic was corrupting the sorcerer and causing visually altering effects. They grew crystal anterlers and portions of their skin as well. :)

[@anthonylucas5783]

Logan: sets a goal of 20k also Logan: gets 50x that amount

[@aqacefan]

When my group ran Descent Into Avernus, our WM Sorc was a Kobold; she got played like Bifur in that she had a meat cleaver embedded in her head 😁 And yes, at one point she did turn into a potted plant!

[@moodyfingers7301]

It's time for the Magic Boys! YEY

[@briguy_3840]

You have completely turned my perspective around on the Wild magic subclass. If I ever play a Sorcerer this is now the one I’m picking

[@dracone4370]

Also, I've harped about this before in a few prior videos, Evocation has the most spells over all of the spellcasting classes, and most of those spells have the fire attribute. I think the developers need to sit down and decide that Evocation shouldn't be getting any more spells for a while, at least until the spell schools with the fewest spells get a bit closer in overall spell count.

[@Booklat1]

damage spells are easier to design maybe?

[@dracone4370]

@@Booklat1 Maybe, it seems to me that combat spells take priority, likely a holdover from the older editions of D&D. Even so, Illusion, Necromancy, and Divination are all practically for having the fewest overall spells. Last I checked, Transmutation and Conjuration were the next highest schools for spell count over all of the spellcasting classes. And what do Evocation, Transmutation, and Conjuration all have in common? They're the 3 schools with the highest combat type spells, hence why I said it seems that combat spells take priority.

[@dontmisunderstand6041]

Evocation spells also kinda... suck? Like sure, you deal damage. 80% of scenarios don't need that, and 60% don't want that. Consider for a moment... Haste and Fireball are the same level, and there's a very real chance that Haste deals more damage. Only, Haste also has actual uses outside of damage dealt. I think you're focusing too much on the evocation bit, and too little on the fire attribute bit. The fact that there are a lot of elemental spells isn't an issue, the fact that too many of them are the same element is.

[@dracone4370]

@@dontmisunderstand6041 I totally agree, Evocation has far too many spells, and takes up the vast majority of spell options for all the spellcasting classes in general. While Transmutation is also a school with a lot of spells, still closer to what Evocation has on its plate than Divination or Necromancy, most of those spells can at least be used in a more utilitarian way than "I want to explode something." And I can see where you're coming from on the part you said about elements, but usually, when I gripe and harp about Evocation having far too many spells, I leave out the whole elemental allocation thing.

[@JasonCorfman]

My first character was a wild magic sorcerer, and I rolled the die with every spell. That campaign only lasted a few months, but I only had wild magic surge occur twice. The first was an effect where my next spell cast within one minute would deal maximum damage... that effect was triggered by the killing blow of that encounter, so there was no more spells within the next minute. The second occurred toward the start of a combat encounter and I inadvertently cast confusion on everyone in our party and most of the enemies. That was one of the most memorable battles in that campaign. I will admit, I rarely did the tides of chaos, and if I play another wild magic sorcerer, I'd do it a lot more. Now, I will say that I both enjoyed and feared the wild magic surge table. Having a wild magic surge hit in the middle of combat made sense to me and I thought had the potential of being a lot of fun. At the same time, having a wild magic surge hit on non-combat spells scared me. Accidentally setting off a fireball and damaging my entire party when we are in a safe spot and I just wanted to cast mage armor on myself scared me so much I didn't take the mage armor spell... even though I had an AC of 9 (as I said, it was my first character). I ended up multiclassing as a warlock so I could grab the armor of shadows invocation and cast mage armor on myself without endangering my party.