Tier Ranking 1st Level Spells in D&D 5e - Part 4

[@thegiantmimir4664]

Ice knife - one of the few spells with no V component - which means silence spells can't prevent it.

[@Zoddlander]

very good point! and its material component can be spit! "I spit at thee"! Muahahaha!

[@Juniper_Rose]

It's also a nice easy source of magical piercing damage!

[@Zoddlander]

@@Juniper_Rose Druids with Thorn whip, Ice Knife and Piercer feat, sounds cool! but it don't scale that well! the piercing damage don't scale! and that would be a good thing for a fight against a Rakshasa!

[@alexinfinite7142]

As a DM I would allow it to be twin cast

[@williammeek4078]

I’m with Kelly on Mage Armor. There are too many ways to get that permanent AC boost like taking a single level of Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer that negates the need. The only time I have used it is actually on unarmored NPCs that we had to get out of a dangerous situation.

[@wilhelmscream6919]

I think that Shield's appeal might be partly psychological- the player gets to *decide* to NOPE an incoming attack which just feels really satisfying.

[@RJWhitmore]

It is not just an attack - its a whole round of attacks from multiple attackers. The additional AC really pays dividends. Additionally, Level 1 Spells Slots quickly become obsolete unless using Shield/Absorb Elements, so there isn't really a good reason to *not* use Shield.

[@andscifi]

That's a big part of it. If every time you got attacked you yelled Mage armor and your DM told you when it worked then you'd probably feel better about having used it. But most DM's aren't even going to tell you by how much you beat the attack so you don't know if mage armor works, but you'll almost always know shield works.

[@grantstratton2239]

@@andscifi I think I agree that Mage Armor falls off later game though, because a lot of casters plan around obsoleting it, by finding or making bracers of armor or elven chain mail, or taking lightly or moderately armored, or using teleport spells to get out of situations where you would be attacked round after round. Part of the continuing attraction of shield is that it stacks with regular armor.

[@andscifi]

@@grantstratton2239 You are entirely right. If you're level 18 and still using mage armor you've probably done something wrong. I'm speaking primarily about the psychological differences between the two. Shield is better in a lot of cases including almost anytime you get higher level where there are a lot of ways to get that much armor. Basically what I'm saying is just that Shield is also more fun to use, and as it it a game that is important.

[@TorSmawbs]

The psychological element isn't necessarily a lie though. If played well, a mage is likely to not be hit at all, or maybe just once and it's over/under the specific 3AC range mage armor provides more often than not. Meaning shield, the spell you only need to cast when actually needed, and is able to cover more options, is better on average. People develop gut instincts for a reason.

[@gatts205]

The mage armor vs sheild debate never dies throughout the video. I love it!!

[@davidreelis4387]

warlock invocation for mage armor and pick up shield

[@darknifu]

That debate was awesome XD

[@solar4planeta923]

I ran a wizard from 3-11 and never learned or even wanted to cast Shield. Absorb Elements, yes, but cast mage armor every day and never cast shield.

[@jothrax4673]

Those debates are why I love watching these guys.

[@muscularclassrepresentativ5663]

@@solar4planeta923I use shield all the time as a reaction in big fights, it’s so dope

[@brunoboccardo3358]

The shield and mage armor discussion is the archetypal sorcerer vs wizard mindset 😂

[@AvangionQ]

My big discussion: why isn't Mage Armor a ritual spell?

[@brunoboccardo3358]

I ask myself the same question every time I cast that spell

[@Setzer]

Yeah as a Wizard, it's no problem taking both I think. You start with 6 spells and gain 2 a level, so you won't have any problem picking both up in your first 8 spells and though you won't be using both at level 2 (maybe not either), you'll have them for later. As a sorcerer you only have 8 spells once you hit level 7, and do you want to waste spells known on 1st level spell slots, when you could be taking 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th level spells? Still if you're going to take only one, I'd take Mage Armor. Maybe you can take Silvery Barbs as well instead of Shield because it has more utility than Shield and having that on a sorcerer is really valuable. You can basically double Heighten a spell.

[@Voriclexx]

@@Setzertotally agree. With every wizard I play, I always end up with Mage Armor, Shield, and Identify at 1st level. As a sorcerer, I’d rather just play a Draconic sorcerer and have a permanent Mage Armor

[@RealLifeIronMan]

​@@AvangionQ Agreed. Mage Armor really needs ritual casting to be worth it.

[@hunterfenryr9680]

My fighter got completely surrounded by a ratling ambush. The Druid yelled “shield up!” and threw an Ice Knife targeting my fighter. The attack missed (AC 17 I think at lvl 3) and the fighter made their saving throw, the ratlings largely did not. It was an awesome moment in the game and a very clever use of the spell.

[@Silverythoughts]

That's really cool!

[@keylimepython641]

Consider: Cult leader uses illusory script to both tell his minions the plan and lure the party into a trap.

[@pairot01]

There are many great ways for a DM to use it, but like the dudes said at the end yourplayers will most likely never know that you used it like that, and you are the DM so you can just have the baddies know the plan.

[@Hazel-xl8in]

if that’s the coolest thing you can do with it, why is it in the *player’s* handbook

[@daltigoth3970]

I use it this way, but I clue the players in that there is something up by having the message disappear from the first note they find (written by the BBEG to the leader of the group they just fought) as the ten days have conveniently just expired shortly after they read it (thus preventing them from discovering the real message). The second note they acquire will be at the ambush site the first note led them to, but has more time left on it. What the players see on the second note initially will lead them to another trap, and there might be several layers of this, but from the second note onward, the players will have been presented with clues as to the true nature of the note and a means to see the hidden message. I'll let them keep walking into the traps until they figure it out, but I'll give them more obvious hints after each new note is acquired and eventually just flat out tell them if they are too dense to pick up on the clues.

[@reloadpsi]

"S-tier for DMs." Yep.

[@AvangionQ]

I've only ever used illusory script spell once as a DM as security for a secretive BBEG. The real message: go kidnap a named important NPC in order to complete the ritual. The illusory message: go kidnap a named NPC in order to complete the ritual. [Subtext, not written: the illusory script indicated a family member of that important NPC.] When all the players failed their investigation checks, set the DC a couple points too high, they went and safeguarded the wrong NPC and kickstarted the next adventure.

[@Juniper_Rose]

I think Jump is one of those spells that is gonna catch a lot of folks from Baldur's Gate 3 where jumping is SUPER useful...but not in 5e where the jumping rules aren't great.

[@williammitchell6254]

yah jump spell in BG4 might as well be mistystep every turn.

[@jothrax4673]

I don't think I've ever even jumped normally in D&D.

[@TopTierKnees]

​@jothrax4673 As a DM I've had some orcs jump to avoid a lot of damage from spike growth. They were still just regular orcs though so most of them still died. 😅

[@mslabo102s2]

​@@williammitchell6254Yo you're from future?

[@neko1538]

i wanna note specifically that sanctuary is a bonus action cast with no concentration so you can throw the spell out as you would use a shield spell, yes its more likely to be wasted but it is still very effective and if it blocks one or two hits then it still did its job and the player can just attack and end the spell when its their turn. its also useful in making sure a player who was just downed can get to their turn without getting attacked. so basically I'm with Monty on this being an A/B tier spell

[@Camthalion666]

Agreed. Also, it can block Save-based spells, which Shield can not.

[@HealsLFW]

It can also empower a bard/cleric to stand in melee next to a rogue to give sneak attack. I know they hated on Bane vs Bless, but a Bane+Sanctuary is really tough to hit. You can also cast your Spirit Guardians, then cantrip+Sanctuary on the next turn and walk right into melee. The spell only ends if you cast a spell that affects an enemy. It doesn’t say anything about ongoing concentration spells. The bad thing though about this being defensive is that it doesn’t actually “defeat” any attacks. The enemy can’t target you, but they still can target one of your allies. I think Sanctuary is a solid B+ solely because of other spell choices available.

[@TM1337FalconPunch]

Sanctuary is perfect to throw on the rogue/ranger when the need to go and scout into dangerous territory, or even just to get someone from A to B safely with the macguffin. In our game of LMoP, the redcloaks decided they wanted to stage a shootout for us when we started poking our noses into things, and being able to slap sanctuary on the rogue so he could run up and down the road to the manor and back made a big difference.

[@juliandraz]

Kelly just wants to reenact the princess bride with purify food and drink.

[@LinusCello75]

Inconceivable

[@Mary_Studios]

@@LinusCello75 You keep saying that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[@fenixmeaney6170]

Which can be done by simply being a yuan ti pureblood.

[@Mary_Studios]

@@fenixmeaney6170 Yeah but it depends on if the dm allows you to play that or not as they could see being immune to that condition braking and make you play the new version.

[@pokemaster5461]

Mage Armor is great when you got it from the Eldrich Invocation "Armor of Shadows". Free casting, and when done an Abjuration Wizards it activates/heals their Arcane Ward.

[@MsKeylas]

yeah only 2 cases where it is better than shield

[@michaelboggs438]

@@MsKeylas not sure it's a strict comparison. I think Mage Armor has its place (when you need an AC calculation), and any AC calc you're adding makes shield better. I think the point got missed since they debated those spells here, but, you should often take both if you're not able to get an AC calculation from any other source. If you're the eldritch knight, MA is obviously not for you. Shield is ALWAYS the OP thing that makes your AC climb to the stratosphere, but it can't do that if your base AC is 12. There are too many ways to get 17, 18, 19 on a die roll, but getting 19, 20, 21, 22 is a lot harder of a climb for basically the whole game.

[@RealLifeIronMan]

​@@michaelboggs438​​​​​ The thing is, you almost always have better sources for AC. The only case where Mage Armor has any value is if your campaign only uses material from the PH, with no feats allowed, no multiclassing, no other races, and no other subclasses.

[@RoncoRaptor]

Sanctuary - good bonus action spell to protect an ally on a turn-by-turn basis. Especially a surrounded frontliner. If you get extra turns out of it, that's a bonus. It's also useful to help save an ally while running away

[@agilemind6241]

Yep, it an also be good if a caster that's concentrating on an important spell routinely gets focus-fired upon by enemies trying to break their concentration.

[@ebensirges]

Kelly's plan with Purify Food and Drink is beautiful. They should write a movie where that happens, I'm sure it'd be a classic.

[@jshikari927]

Inconceivable!

[@futurecaredesign]

Illusory Script in combination with Forgery Kit proficiency and an Illusionist Wizard can turn an ordinary piece of paper into The Doctor's 'Psychic Paper'. At 6th level, an Illusionist can change any illusion with a simple Action. That would enable you to conjure a writ, or a bank note, or a release paper for a prisoner in 6 seconds.

[@Juniper_Rose]

Just don't try to pass yourself off as a Responsible Adult.

[@rcschmidt668]

Our team was part of a mercenary group, and we had a communication crystal that worked like sending stones. That is a lot better than having illusionary script.

[@insertname5371]

You don't eeven need a frogery kit. The spell specifies it looks like it was written by someone else's hand. If you know there writing you can just make it. Illsuionist just means you need an action and not a longer time. This is the ultimate forgery spell.

[@mythicaldakka]

​@@Juniper_RoseFinally, a lie too big 😂

[@derekstein6193]

​@@rcschmidt668Except sending stones only work one daily. Illusionary Script works for ten days. Also, one does not always find the magic item they want, but a level up can always provide a needed spell.

[@lunamoth34]

In the final battle of the campaign, at level 20, I had a level 20 Alchemist Artificer and was able to simply cast Sanctuary on our wizard because of how initiative turned out. Sure, he caused it to drop on his turn by casting meteor swarm, but I was able to just recast Sanctuary again on my turn before the BBEG got his turn back. Super useful for protecting our ace in the hole.

[@chadbizeau5997]

Magic missile is clearly an S tier. It's perfect for attacking the darkness!

[@kongmongo]

A man of culture, I see.

[@the_markoman]

While Sanctuary is annoyingly limiting, I was recently in that very position of being surrounded by enemies that were focus-firing on my lil' druid goblin. Sanctuary from the paladin made sure I wasn't brought down by the bigger enemies, allowing me to spend my actions on healing myself and setting myself up for attacking next turn.

[@alexk.8962]

Fully subscribing to Monty's logic on the Mage Armor vs. Shield debate. If you don't have any kind of AC boost, Mage Armor statistically will save you more times in an adventuring day for less investment in spell slots.

[@r0b0charlie34]

Definitely agree with Kelly, Shield will ALWAYS be used as opposed to mage armor, it also justifies itself when used. You could cast mage armor and never fight anything and end up wasting a spell slot, while with shield you can always hold off until you DO get attacked.

[@zorn3255]

I agree, I'm Team Shield too for several reasons. 1. At very low levels giving up a spell slot just terrible. I only get 2 spell slots at level 1 and 3 slots at level 2; I don't want to have to spend one of them to cast Mage Armor when I might not even be attacked (or might not even be hit with an attack which +3 AC would prevent). I might even have to use 2 spell slots if the adventuring day is super long/over 8 hours. 2. Even the "Armor of Shadows" warlock invocation is not worth it. Warlocks already get light armor proficiency, so "Mage Armor" is what... +1 AC vs Studded Leather? And that goes away if you find +1 magic armor or you can't cast for whatever reason (can't speak, can't use your hands, or don't have your focus). Is this really worth one of your precious invocations? Maybe if you can switch it out later I guess... If you are not a warlock, using the "Eldritch Adept" feat to get "Armor of Shadows" equally doesn't make sense because you could have instead gotten "Lightly Armored" instead and gotten +1 DEX (which might give you +1 AC and also improve its saving throw and related skills) and light armor proficiency, allowing you to wear said +1 magic armor later. 3. With the Tasha's Cauldron of Everything rule which says ability score increases can be assigned to wherever you want, you might as well play a race which gives you armor proficiency anyway. What other advantage is your race going to give you that is this worthwhile, except maybe flight? Heck, mountain dwarves get medium armor proficiency, which is generally an upgrade to "Mage Armor" unless your DEX is 16 or higher. 4. Even if you ignore everything above and don't get armor proficiency another way, when comparing Shield vs Mage Armor directly against each other it is still debatable which is a better use of that level 1 spell slot (i.e. which is better to take first). If you don't get hit with an attack roll at all during the next 8 hours, Shield is obviously better. If you are hit with an attack roll that +5 AC prevents but +3 AC doesn't, Shield is obviously better too. If you are hit with multiple attack rolls which occur during the same round, Shield is STILL better because it lasts until the start of your next turn. Oh, and Shield also protects you from Magic Missile, which Mage Armor does nothing against. The only time Mage Armor is giving you more benefit than Shield is when you are hit with multiple attack rolls where +3 AC would prevent that damage and those hits are spread across multiple rounds. As a wizard or sorcerer, how often do you take attack roll damage in a day? Remember that "attack roll" damage does not include damage from attacks/spells/abilities that use saving throws instead...

[@DangerDurians]

Sanctuary is amazing for combats where the enemy is trying to do something Had a friend playing a Peace domain cleric, buffing everybody in the party the enemy were trying to complete a ritual on a raised platform with sanctuary he was able to walk past all the cultist trying to kill him, and wreck all of their ritual components.

[@MisterJaeger]

Something I think should be taken into consideration is that certain classes can prepare spells everyday, so when they talk about a spell only being relevant if it is useful for your entire campaign isn't all that valid on those spells, like when they are talking about protection from evil and good. If your characters know what type of encounter to expect and are able to prepare for it, that could change how you rank some of these spells.

[@MisterJaeger]

Also, not sure if they've addressed this either in their rules for ranking or old comments.

[@TopTierKnees]

Great point. I had players heading into a powerful ghost's lair and they made sure everyone who could had the spell and they even recruited an NPC cleric to come and help with an extra casting. It ended up mattering a whole lot.

[@ianjones9175]

Very true, I think the ranking system holds up better for classes like sorc, bard, maybe wizard (since your spell book can be big but you do have to learn them). For someone like the Cleric/Druid - you get all your spells, and just have to pick what you prepare each day, so, some of the more niche spells seem more valuable since you're not missing out on other spells on your list, just what you can/can't cast for that day.

[@3ldfilms]

Sanctuary is great if you are concentrating on an important spell and trying to keep it up, like Hypnotic Pattern or Animate Objects. Your bonus action makes the animated creatures attack, but you’re not actually doing the damage yourself.

[@culliganator]

It doesn't matter what the concentration spell does (damage or otherwise) if sanctuary is cast after. "If the warded creature makes an attack or casts a spell that affects an enemy creature, this spell ends."

[@3ldfilms]

That’s why you cast Animated Objects first, then sanctuary after to help you maintain it

[@crownlexicon5225]

Sanctuary was quite useful in keeping our Cleric alive while he kept us up against a giant

[@backcountry164]

It's a must have for door dodging also.

[@feelingrizzly1515]

You can also cast it on yourself while Spirit Guardians is up and you retain the full benefits.

[@MajorCinnamonBuns]

@@feelingrizzly1515 How? It ends when you deal damage.

[@feelingrizzly1515]

@@MajorCinnamonBuns Sanctuary only falls off when you actually CAST a spell that affects an enemy at the moment of casting the spell. You can still benefit from spells that harm enemies, you just can't cast them after Sanctuary is active. Spirit Guardians has a 10 minute duration, so you can easily precast it before combat and you're fine to cast Sanctuary during your first combat round if you want to. Then just charge on in and throw your 3d8. You can also reasonably cast Spirit Guardians during combat, as long as there are no enemies in your initial AOE at the moment of casting.

[@MajorCinnamonBuns]

@@feelingrizzly1515 I guess it would be okay to get to close range if you're worried about ranged attacks but I don't see the point otherwise. Once you deal the 3d8 from spirit guardians sanctuary drops. "If the warded creature ... deals damage to another creature, this spell ends."

[@timpietz2279]

My goblin rogue once tricked a devil into signing away everything he owned to me with an Illusory script contract (which had no requirements for my goblin). My goblin was a shady businessman who would set up contracts with people and hide the fine print with illusory script, so I only took it for flavor. Never expected to use it on so grand a scale!

[@Banquet42]

Don't some Devils have truesight or am I thinking of dragons?

[@timpietz2279]

@@Banquet42 most devils have devil's sight (can see through magical darkness). Some have true sight, but not all. True sight is super powerful so you gotta be a high-level boss to have it usually.

[@Banquet42]

@@timpietz2279 thank you!

[@skittleskelevra2928]

The devil was a fool for not producing the contract himself obviously though @@Banquet42

[@adambielen8996]

Brilliant

[@CivilWarMan]

I'd rank Mage Armor as a B, as well, but primarily because it's not particularly difficult for the classes that get it to also get medium armor proficiency. Its primary use case seems to be for Wizards and Sorcerers who aren't multiclassing, or Abjuration Wizards that pick up the Eldritch Adept feat to cheese Armor of Shadows.

[@dudebromanguy]

Ooooh I didn't think of the armor of shadows + abjuration wizard combo. Is it actually super cheesy though? You have to spend an action to cast mage armor, even if it does't cost a spell slot. Seems hard to justify in the middle of a combat (but certainly fantastic outside of combat).

[@hectordiaz537]

@@dudebromanguy Why mid combat. Mage armor when you wake up, mage armor when you go to sleep, mage armor mid-day if you're strolling through the countryside and it wears off. Its basically a chain shirt without the disadvantage to stealth or a dex limit

[@charlesbryant6889]

Agree with Monty, take both when you can. But, Mage Armour has the potential to avoid con checks and a 60% chance on not having to use your reaction to cast shield. If your ac boost protects you from hits you also have the potential of using slots for something else. Shield is amazing… get both

[@ezhoops711]

Sanctuary is amazing if you pay attention to the initiative order. The melee hitter charges in and attacks, but is now surrounded? If you go before the group of enemies (who tend to go on the same initiative), you can guard them for at least that one turn. I have also used a character to block a door taking the dodge action while under sanctuary to great affect

[@brianj.841]

I could also see keeping a very low HP character alive while they retreat. Or the scout with it, just in case.

[@derekstein6193]

Also good for infiltrators that need to escape after being discovered, as it not only helps keep you alive, but also helps prevent being knocked out or netted. Unfortunately, it does not protect against grapple attempts or traps.

[@brianj.841]

not grapples?? Interesting. @@derekstein6193

[@olorin6494]

I think the best use case for inflict wounds would be combining it with hold person to double the damage

[@WolfHreda]

It's also _the_ War Caster reaction spell.

[@daltigoth3970]

I find Inflict Wounds to be a terrible choice most of the time, as a cleric can just bop a close range enemy with a melee weapon instead and save the spell slot for something more useful. That is not to say it is entirely useless, but generally speaking, only clerics that are limited to medium armor and simple weapons are going to be better off casting inflict wounds over just bonking an enemy with a weapon, and even they can get away with casting a cantrip instead of burning a spell slot for a little extra damage. By level 5, Toll the Dead is dealing almost the same damage as Inflict Wounds if the target is already injured (presumably by your Spirit Guardians, if nothing else), deals the same damage type, and doesn't cost a spell slot. There are only two real uses for Inflict Wounds. One is when a creature is in the cleric's face, it needs to die NOW for tactical reasons and the cleric doesn't have any better spells they can use at that range prepared for whatever reason, which makes it incredibly niche, as more often than not, the cleric can just bonk the monster and let someone else finish it off instead of burning a high level spell slot to kill it themselves. The other is if the cleric has the War Caster feat and is built around using fear or similar effects to make monsters flee from them to trigger the reaction.

[@chadbizeau5997]

Hold person + inflict wounds... I remember casting hold person on a humanoid enemy in a boss battle. Then I went up to him on my next turn and cast inflict wounds at fifth level... Automatic crit. And we used the Chris Perkins rule of crits do full damage plus dice roll. That was 7d10 + 70 damage.... Needless to say, the henchman character didn't last very long.

[@Liberaven]

Player at my table has used it like 5 times and crit 3 times (whilst upcasting!) just by rolling. Mega damage numbers

[@olorin6494]

@@WolfHredaI don’t see the value of choosing it over a cantrip for a reaction as it’s very similar to using it normally. Unlike with hold person active it’s a straight roll with a sizable chance to miss and waste the spell slot, the chance of getting a critical is minimal and you can’t upcast to anticipate a crit. Without that critical it just doesn’t have enough value for the slot considering the chance to miss nor does it have a debilitating effect to prevent them from running away. THE warcaster spell is booming blade

[@talongreenlee7704]

Mage armor is a great spell to pick up with magic initiate. You get a free cast every day that lasts the whole day plus two cantrips. It's perfect. Edit: I'm talking about using this feat as a primary spellcaster in order to get a free cast of mage armor without spending a spell slot, as well as filling out your cantrip repertoire a little more. Obviously if you have heavy armor proficiency you shouldn't do this.

[@twicedeadmage]

If you aren't going for Magic Initiate Wizard for Find Familiar, Mage Armor is a good pick.

[@DrakeAurum]

Or you could take Lightly Armoured and gain most of the benefit by wearing regular studded leather, plus the option to use a range of magical armours down the line.

[@Zoddlander]

IMO mage armor is less of a choise for a Sorcerer compared to a Wizard! and thats probly why Kelly said B! and I agree for Sorcerers! but not for Wizards! the sorcerer is more limited than the wizard in spells known!

[@GoldNEagle92]

If you can't get Mage Armor normally then you almost definitely already have better armor proficiency

[@patcheskipp]

Mage armor only lasts 8 hours. If I want mage armor I'm picking it up through eldritch adept so I can cast it at will for free. Saying it's a set it in the morning and your good for the day is false. I need to use it right before a combat and hope we have all of our other combats in the next 8 hours. If I can't trade out spells I'm picking shield because that one I will need. I would thenikely pick up mage armor second

[@Flazius]

The continued Mage Armor/Shield discussion is great, especially because you judge it on different parameters individually.

[@qpn6ph9q]

Really enjoying this series. You get a S tier rating from me

[@variablemuffins]

Mage Armor first. Arguably worth casting even at levels 1 and 2 just because the wizard is made of glass. Best to pick Shield and Mage Armor simultaneously. The only time my caster is not choosing Mage Armor is if I'm proficient in regular armor.

[@Animogx]

I am team Mage Armor, there's a reason it's called the "Mage Tax". What also gives it an edge is that it lasts for 8 hours with no concentration, while Shield lasts only a single round and takes up a spell slot each time

[@warrenprintz5219]

And if folks do not want to pay the tax, they can always play a Lizard or Autognome, or even an old style Dragon Sorc.

[@dizzykincade7831]

Thank you guys, Kelly and Monte, for introducing me into DnD, and for giving me years of incredible content. I was supervising a small 3rd shift workshop that allowed us to listen to ear buds. I found you guys about 10 episodes into Dungeons of Drakkenheim. I fought up in a few days and have dwindled for a new episode every week since. Love ya, dudes!

[@dizzykincade7831]

Friends at work are playing our first one shot. I’m helping a guy who’s DMed, but not since 5e. I’m helping come up with the campaign and making character sheets with the DM. (Our players opted to skip a session 0 and I presented about 12 builds for them to pick from. They made their choices so we will make their character sheets ahead of time and allow them to provide the couple.) It will be the first time for all the players, myself included. Between you dudes and the other greats like Nerdarchy, Taking 20, XP to Lvl 3, How to Be a Great GM and others, I’m very prepared. If all the new players decide to advance to a campaign, I am absolutely going to buy and play Drakkenheim!

[@kodiakjak1]

When you think of sanctuary as being the same cost as shield or cure wounds it's a little better. Not as good as a reaction obviously, but if you block even one attack in between turns it's worth it. Around level 8 - 10 this is all the cleric at my table starting using her first level slots on and it really changed my mind on it lol.

[@pwnyboy9714]

I was once playing a Dhampir Undying Warlock. I snuck into a Wizard's Tower at the behest of another player (who was effectively my Patron, his blood and permissions fueled my power) while Invisible thanks to an Eldritch Invocation. I kept pace with him until he got decently into his tower, and then I decided it was time to execute the assassination plot, reached out with Inflict Wounds, and crit the Wizard, instantly killing them. We faded to black as my Dhampir 'cleaned up'. lol

[@Blangadanger]

Sanctuary was one of the few ways I could save Isobel in BG3. Even if she attacks every turn, casting Sanctuary is worth it in those situations when all enemies are super focused on taking only one character down.

[@pierreapascale2203]

Sadly not quite as strong in Tabletop 5e - it doesn't prevent attacking altogether. Enemies only have to succeed on a save to do so!

[@papajon7007]

Kelly’s plan to poison two glasses is “Inconceivable!!!” 😂

[@DominoPivot]

One detail worth noting about Ice Knife is that (following an errata) it uses the phrasing "the target and each creature within 5 feet of it". The explosion doesn't just hit in a circle of 5ft radius at the point of impact, but in the 8 squares around the target's space, more if the target is larger. This makes Ice Knife a pretty good spell to use on a large target surrounded by minions, or heck, on a cold-resistant ally surrounded by foes.

[@kairos3855]

I agree with Kelly. I always take Shield but I often struggle for when to take Mage Armor. If I'm building up a higher level character then sure I take it, but starting low I typically gravitate to other choices.

[@brandoncurtis1636]

Man it’d be so nice to have a DM that just tells you what the magic item is 😂 Here I was expecting Identify to be a “must have”

[@wayneslater5531]

From the DMG (not sure what page, but it is in Ch7 under "identifying an magic item" "The identify spell is the fastest way to reveal an item’s properties. Alternatively, a character can focus on one magic item during a short rest, while being in physical contact with the item. At the end of the rest, the character learns the item’s properties, as well as how to use them" Identify may be the fastest (11 minutes), but by RAW you can do the same thing just by fondling the item for a hour.

[@brewdaly1873]

I made the mistake of taking Searing Smite on my Sorcadin, because like you said, fire damage on my attacks. I quickly realized that Green Flame Blade is way better, without taking a spell slot lol

[@caceroLM]

With sanctuary, you cast it on a character so in the next round there is less chance that enemies attack him, it is a initiative dependant one round buff, like a bonus action shield

[@dutch6857]

Team Mage Armour here. I will always choose +3 for eight hours over +5 for six seconds. For my very fragile wizard at least. Also, if you don't want to 'waste' a slot at the start of the day, won't you also hesitate to use your last slot for anything but Shield?

[@adambielen8996]

As a Sorcerer (or anyone with the Metamagic Adept Feat) you can also make Mage Armor last 16 hours. So you can cast it and then go to sleep to get your resources back and then still have a full day of Mage Armor.

[@Wintermute909]

....but Shield lets you channel your inner MC Hammer and sing "You Can't Touch This"!

[@АннаЛиберт-ь1й]

Just a 1 lvl dip renders mage armor obsolete tho

[@joeloftus6148]

Just a note for when you inevitably do Level 2 spells.... please keep the spell you're currently discussing in the corner of the screen. I've been listening to this while doing other stuff in a different tab, and I can't tell you how many I've clicked back because I heard something interesting, only to have to rewind and find the spot where you started talking about this particular spell. As always, love your work and watch everything you put out!!

[@shanelilly9673]

Strongly Agree! 😁

[@mellowtron1166]

Love these spell tier lists. Keep them coming, dudes!

[@victorvictor_dead_kro_nov_jail]

As a sorlock with armor of shadow I can say that free mage armor is priceless

[@MrDavidKord]

I see people not take this invocation way too often tbh. It's so strong.

[@Cogexkintrue]

Totally agree with Kelly on his mage armor ranking. I might take it later on, but the idea of taking it over shield is madness

[@justinstreet1254]

+3 to ac against all attacks all day across 1-4 encounters or +5 against attacks for one round out of a day.

[@Joker-yw9hl]

Also with Kelly on this. I recently played BG3 as a wizard in a party of 3, and my friends thought I was mad for not using (at first level) mage armour over shield. For me, it's shield all day long *and then* mage armour. Obviously mage armour is a must, but at first level the priority should be shield, not MA

[@andrewdyjach7305]

The problem with mage armor is that there are so many ways for sorcerers and wizards to get a better option for armor without wasting spell slots. You have elven chain, multiclassing (literally any class but 2), lightly armored feat, or more than a half dozen races. Probably more I'm not thinking of.

[@xolotltolox7626]

​@@Joker-yw9hlMA is still stupidly strong, and besides, BG3 is not really comparable to D&D because humans start with shield profiency so you can just use a shield on gal Towards the end of my run gale had 27 AC

[@NapoleonSoares]

@@andrewdyjach7305 Spending a feat or an entire level on something you can get with a single spell slot is extremely wasteful. That's not a problem for mage armor, it's a strength of the spell. The fact that spending a spell slot of your lowest level once per day is even remotely equivalent in strength to taking a level dip in another class or spending an entire feat should be proof enough to players that mage armor is absurdly strong.

[@BelialX86]

Concerning the Illusory Script: it can be used by players to navigate different parties playing same campaign through specific circumstances or allow sharing information when they cannot use other ways to communicate like Sending (low level characters not having Sending in the arsenal, sending is blocked in the dungeon somehow, etc.) I allows to navigate through the dungeon or store specific details of how to pass particular traps or challenges. It can also be tided to the Glyph of Warding with specific triggers applied as a deception or way to provide misinformation or play double-agent - can be widely used by players in certain campaigns or parties. It provides possibilities for great shenanigans.

[@Kopenich]

My favorite part about Magic Missile's auto hit is it's great for non-combat purposes as well. Twice in a campaign I hit precise delicate targets at a distance (a rope and a bottle) with a magic missile item because the damage is irrelevant, but it was nearly an impossible shot.

[@davidtrindle9828]

Strictly speaking, RAW you cannot target inanimate objects with Magic Missile as it specifies that the target must be “a creature of your choice”. That said, I’ve never run into a DM that is that strict with it.

[@RichWoods23]

@@davidtrindle9828 The creature/object line is often blurred, especially if the results are fun.

[@davidtrindle9828]

@@RichWoods23that’s why I specified RAW. While many DMs (including myself) would allow such a use, there are many others who would not.

[@Smeelio]

I gotta say, I really like that Armourers get Magic Missile; it's such a fun and pretty effective damage-dealing spell, which Artificers do seem to lack, on top of its special effect of being eminently consistent by always hitting (which is always nice to have in your pocket), AND it can be flavoured to be like a barrage of literal missiles fired from your shoulder-mounted launcher or something

[@jacoblawson972]

I think Shield of Faith is a better spell for non spell casters classes to pick up with magic initiate. It's great for a Monk, rouge, or fighters who are in tougher spots. Specifically a monk who wants to add to unarmored defence in a pinch. Plus you can pick up 2 cleric cantrips

[@adamwatson9272]

Exactly what my Nephew does with his Long Death Monk/Death Cleric Build. He loves hiting Toll The Dead on 2 enemies that are 5 feet apart while having SoF.

[@alberthord9527]

Illusory Script: A). Villain spells out the evil plan and where to go in the plain text. Secret text tells real plan. Plain text leads to a trap. Bonus points if written on the back of an Invisibility scroll. Now the players think they know why Detect Magic says it is Illusion. (if you want to give a hint, make the scroll Illusory Script.) B). Send a hidden letter. Make the illusion just more information you wanted to include in the letter. Now you only need 1/2 as much paper. Mage Armor: If you can use Mage Armor to increase your AC, Find literally any other way to increase your AC. P.S. - Shield is clearly cheese

[@Wintermute909]

@ 9:34 If the bbeg's hechman only had one arm, then you *know* there is a note hidden by Illusory Script somewhere.....because "And that's why you always leave a note!"

[@dyykaacovers]

The shield/mage armor discussion is the spice that keeps me coming back week after week. #shieldgang

[@quigbytrollins]

Good as Shield is, you can't be walking around with 11 AC. It gets the glory because you consciously have to use it, so the recognition of its effect is built in whereas the baseline armor value is forgotten

[@brianschneider1961]

Love the promotion of your own product during your discussion on Ray of Sickness. I would love to see more spell tactics and game choices you would recommend for Dungeons of Drakenhiem.

[@gridlock489]

I had been waiting for this video to settle my internal "Mage Armor vs. Shield" debate, but now it's even murkier. Guess I'll just need to pick a side... Shield Gang, rise up!

[@rcschmidt668]

The way I see it, shield can be cast by anyone wearing any armor. That makes it more useful than mage armor.

[@jay_caspian2050]

I’m with Monty on Mage armor > shield if I could only have one for my wizard. Awesome videos guys!

[@LordNerfherder]

The magic missile segway was so good I thought we were still talking about shield.

[@AgentForest]

Sanctuary is incredibly strong if used correctly. It's a good way to protect someone who is about to get taken out or suddenly got surrounded. It's also strong if your support has their hands full trying to save others, and can't afford to take hits from enemies. This can make it pair really well with Life Transference. I also found a weird edge case for a mounted combatant. A Lore Bard who took Find Greater Steed, Armor of Agathys, Fire Shield, and Shadow of Moil can cast all of those things on themselves, duplicating the casts on their mount. Upcast Aid, grab Warding Bond from Magic Initiate or a Cleric dip, then cast Sanctuary on yourself. Sure, it'll put Sanctuary on the mount too, which goes away when it attacks, but now the pet is damn near impossible to kill, and you're almost impossible to attack. And even if they get past the Sanctuary, they have to hit you, and if they manage that too, you still do a bunch of retaliation damage. Then you can recast Sanctuary, and use low level slots on Cure Wounds, healing yourself and your mount. Find Greater Steed is weird as heck. You essentially share your HP pool with your mount, make it hard to kill, and rely mostly on its combat prowess. The mount is the actual fighter. You're just the support riding on its back.

[@crownlexicon5225]

Shield of Faith is actually a go to for my Paladin/ sorcerer. He's got plate, a shield, a Staff of Defence, a Ring of Protection, and a Cloak of Displacement. I don't need the disadvantage from Protection from Evil and Good because the cloak already does that. So the +2 AC is more important.

[@brewdaly1873]

Sounds like you've already got great AC, why wouldn't you rather concentrate on something like Bless?

[@Enwickote]

Bless is still better for him

[@crownlexicon5225]

@@brewdaly1873 because I want to be a wall. No one will get past me to my allies. And at tier 2, I still face many enemies with a +10 or higher to hit. With blindsight, truesight, or some other way to negate my cloak. At that point, I'm still getting hit a large amount of the time.

[@brewdaly1873]

@@crownlexicon5225 I mean, you do you, but you can get up to what, 27 AC by casting Shield with your staff, plus the cloak? +2 on top of that just seems less impactful than boosting attacks and saving throws for multiple allies, or throwing out a smite spell for a bunch of extra damage, or sprit shroud for damage and slowing down your enemies. But hey, sounds like it does what you want it to, so more power to you.

[@thiagofrias2471]

Fun fact. During past ages, at the “how to play an evocation Wizard” It was Monty that picked shield before mage armor (cause it was a great commitment to use a spell slot at early levels) and Kelly made his Wizard picking mage armor first. Funny to see how the perspective can change 😂

[@WearingGoldluck]

I think that you could remove the concentration requirement from Shield of Faith and it would maybe move it to the bottom if S-Tier, but if you also reduced its duration to 1 minute I think it’d be a really solid A-Tier to B-Tier spell

[@jeremythornbrugh403]

This is my Favorite Dudes video in a long time. So fun! Three thoughts... 1- I loved watching Kelly get feisty with Monty! Wonderful! 2- I found myself actually agreeing with Monty in this video... which was a new feeling lol. 3- Kelly was looking like an absolute scrumptious snack.

[@chrisvossler8795]

What would you think of making Longstrider a ritual, while still retaining the 1-hour duration? It's an easier ask to be able to cast it on someone, but you're still limited in the number of creatures with it active at a given time.

[@logancuster8035]

I would take that in a heartbeat

[@patrickhobing8785]

Our group has taken the other route of making LS an 8 hour duration spell

[@KrisSchouw]

I've been trying to find a way to defend Mage Armor as the first pick, but honestly, I think it will always be Shield. The only characters who generally get access to Mage Armor are Wizards, Sorcerers, and potentially Warlocks. In the later case, they get it through the Eldritch Invocation Armor of Shadows, which lets them cast it without expending a spell slot, so it's a very different scenario and choice for that class to make. As a Wizard and Sorcerer, I'm generally not putting myself on the front lines enough to be subjected to multiple attacks that would warrant a more consistent +3 bonus to AC over a reactionary and discretionary +5 when I am targeted. The only exception to this rule is the Bladesinger for me, in which case... I just take both. They get to add two spells to their book per level, so you could always take both if you don't already have them in your starting 6. Still, if I was playing a level 1 wizard that wanted to bladesing at the next level but still wanted to start off the campaign attempting to be in melee, I might consider Mage Armor first as its bonus could be applicable to more incoming attacks than a couple uses of shield. I've used Shield of Faith as a way to further buff my Paladin's ability to just be a wall in a hallway or chokepoint. There was one scenario in a campaign where there was literally only a 10-ft opening into a large cavern of monsters. My sword and board paladin stood on one 5-ft space while the fighter took the other. Using shield of faith on me to raise my AC up and then using my reaction with the Protection fighting style on my Fighter ally to give attacks against them disadvantage while then using my action to only dodge... I made two hard to hit, high AC characters hold back the flood of monsters while the back line pelted them with ranged attacks and the fighter got his swings in. We trivialized an encounter the DM thought would wipe us given our... poor decision making.

[@aidandunne5978]

Hope you Dudes are having a great day!

[@therealcromar616]

Got a good illusory script story. As a rogue mastermind, I framed a thieves' guild member for murder. He was sending us on a mission, and I made a show of demanding that he sign a contract stipulating the exact rewards and terms, etc. He reads over the contract, says it looks good, signs it in blood. The note was actually a kill order, and after he signed it, I turned in the "evidence" to the city watch. I appreciated the DM for throwing in the "sign in blood" bit to make it even more effective. The DM had me roll deception, and when I won that roll, the mark didn't bother to examine the document closely or make the int check to discern the illusion. You guys are underappreciating Longstrider. What it and Jump have in common is that they only cost a 1st level spell, and they don't require concentration. Jump is less useful because of the short duration and because it's dependent on the types of battlemaps your DM likes to run. Longstrider, however, is universally useful, and it last an hour. Every melee gish should have it up for every combat. Every buffer/supporter should be tossing that on the dwarves in your party, or the swashbucklers, or anyone, really. Also worth mentioning that the move speed carries over to any effect that adds flying speed equal to walking speed, like magic items or certain racials. On the mage armor vs shield debate: I know you guys were trolling each other, but yes, mage armor is the better of the two spells in that one niche situation, when you are a squishy spellcaster with absolutely no other way to raise your AC. If you have at least studded leather armor, then Shield is better. The correct answer is to take both. Mage Armor goes up in value in low magic campaigns. Still though, the optimal wizard build is always to go heavy armor and shield, making mage armor obsolete. I'd consider mage armor an excellent backup spell when all of those other methods fail. PFE&G is not as campaign dependent as you guys indicate. Nearly any campaign has these creature types pop up here and there. Even if you're hunting bandits, the DM is gonna throw some undead or elementals or something at you at some point. I can't imagine a campaign without monster variety. You should always have this spell if it's available, just in case. You're taking the wrong approach with Sanctuary. The use case isn't niche support builds that don't attack; the use case is an oh-shit button that saves fallen allies. You aren't expecting the full duration to get used. You just need to protect a vulnerable target for long enough that they can scramble to safety. As a DM with high difficulty, combat-focused encounters, my players make excellent use of this spell all the time. Sometimes, they'll attack something, drop a Goading or Cavalier taunt, then bonus action sanctuary and let the monsters waste a round, knowing that they plan on attacking and breaking it later. Also, if you are super strict with the RAW interpretation, only *casting* a spell that affects enemies breaks Sanctuary, so you could Spirit Guardians, then run in, Dodge, and Sanctuary yourself. DM might not let you get away with those shenanigans. Searing Smite is such a tragic spell. As a DM, if players use abilities that add these persist, annoying DOT effects, like fire elemental touch, etc, then I like to reward them by having the enemies waste a turn putting out the fire. Same thing with "use an action to shake the creature awake" control spells. While the damage is bad, wasting a creature's turn can be worth it. Too bad Searing Smite is such a shitty way to accomplish that effect.

[@raxenladevaldak1749]

The Sorcerer I'm currently playing took Shield first. Then found an item to give him mage armor. Having both is obviously ideal (if you don't have something that replaces the mage armor), but besides that I think it's a discussion of how often you expect to get attacked. If you don't expect to get attacked super often, shield is the better choice.

[@Klaital1]

You can cast the summon after Sanctuary too and it doesn't end the effect, since a summoning spell doesn't directly damage an enemy. The summons afterwards attacking enemies are not you attacking them so Sanctuary stays still. I am also currently playing a tanky devotion paladin in a campaign that uses Sanctuary all the time to ward whichever party member the enemies are focusing on (quite often the land druid in the party).

[@talongreenlee7704]

Just want to point out that you can target a creature that's at zero hit points and making death saves with sanctuary. That's the S tier use of this spell.

[@normal6483]

But then it's competing with Healing Word, which will bring them back up and stop them from making death saves. And most people who gets Sanctuary gets Healing Word.

[@markusayasse99]

Maybe if you’re an Artificer, but if you’re a Cleric, why on earth didn’t you just use healing word?

[@markusayasse99]

@@normal6483lol didn’t see that someone had already commented exactly it what I was thinking

[@talongreenlee7704]

@@normal6483 I don’t care for healing word because it tends to lead towards heal spam, which is really bad overall. It’s almost better to just keep them safe without making them a target and then focus your spell slots on dealing damage and ending the encounter.

[@clossonpoolboy]

Shield of Faith story - I was playing in a Rime of the Frostmaiden campaign. I was a buff focused Divine Soul Sorcerer 2/ Paladin 2. I would often Twin Metamagic Shield of Faith on myself giving me 21 AC (half Plate 15, +2 Dex, +2 for wooden shield, +2 for shield of faith) & 26 AC with Shield Spell on a reaction, and then bump the AC on the GWM Barbarian from 16 to 18. Combined with Proficiency in Con saves, it had a better chance of staying maintained for a longer period of time. Even as we reached tier 2, We would use this to bottleneck many doorways and hallways. Sometimes side by side, sometimes the barbarian in front, with me standing behind him, casting around him. Additionally, SoF was used often when the party was spread out. Bless has a 30ft range while SoF has 60 Ft. If I was low on initative, It was possible party members were out of range to be a target of Bless, yet SoF could still reach and still have my action to cast a cantrip.

[@JohnSmith-ld2mc]

Ice knife can be used in silence. I can’t think of another.

[@Wintermute909]

Wow! Yeah thats a great point! Tbh i thought that was a weird comment because exploding ice wouldn't be that quiet.....until i looked it up and saw there is no verbal component.

[@FaisLittleWhiteRaven]

Illusory Script is one of those spells I love (magical graffiti everywhere go! XD) but pretty much never use in its original spell format as opposed to using it via the Emerald Pen item. Had a character who pretty much wrote all his messages with it and well, usually it (like his constant deception rolls) was just another way to get across how paranoid and shifty he was despite his 'friendly' personality, but it also ended up being really helpful for subtly giving his friends/allies warnings in public places by disguising them as magic component shopping lists or 'a private letter from one of your admirers', kind of like the Message spell (which he also used a lot but he tended to use the Emerald pen for more complicated/wordy warnings, like descriptions/locations of suspected foes, going into much further detail about the magic stuff he didn't feel comfortable talking about out loud -both to underplay his smarts and to avoid 'wtf' reactions if it got a bit dark/horrifying in its potential uses- , and if he felt his warning was best delayed a bit so that his allies didn't react to it in public -them grimacing and wanting to excuse themselves after reading a love letter or magic components shopping list? Much easier to explain away than them reacting that way to Messages in their head)~ XD The Emerald Pen also makes for a very handy tool for any characters that communicate through writing rather than text; don't need chalk or a whiteboard to avoid using up tons of ink and paper if you can auto erase whatever you wrote previously at will. So yeah! Illusory Script is a pretty low tier spell on its own but I highly recommend spamming the handing out of the Emerald Pen wonderous item as its only uncommon rarity, doesn't require attunement and it helps make the spell much more usable and fun to play with

[@Mschickn]

Magic Missile is also 3 unavoidable death save fails for your players. Gotta be at a table where that's not going to cause issues though.

[@niceikey]

my players weren't healing the rogue because the enemy wizard was in combat with the martials pretty far away. I MM'ed the rogue downing him with 2 darts and hitting him twice with the other 2. They then understood the urgency that comes with fighting wizards from then on out.

[@Coopernicuss]

My vote for mage armor vs shield argument is I love watching you two argue over bacon & cheese :D

[@agitated.tachyon]

Larian’s decision to make a lot of the enhanced movement spells ritual casts so that they have infinite out-of-combat use was a great decision. Even with DnD’s more restrictive spell preparation, I think this would be a huge step in the right direction.

[@eyedoc8567]

I loved the Mage Armor Shield tension, but I would take Shield first if I had to choose. Either way, great show as always.

[@flandarz1]

I think the big issue with Mage Armor is that a lot of Wizards and Sorcerers like to Multiclass a level into a class that gets Heavy Armor. Paladin or Fighter, or even Cleric, depending on Subclass. One level in any of these gives a lot to a "mage".

[@normal6483]

Artificer also gives Medium Armor and Shields without worrying about multiclassing stats, while still advancing spell slots, so even a purely Int-focused build will still be able to get usable armor.

[@antivyris]

An evil way I've seen Illusory Script used is every note with readable text lead to a horrible ambush, but the real text lead to the big bad's fortress.

[@antiscam2468]

A note. Shouldn’t Find Traps work like Find Familiar or Find Steed?

[@kiksss3693]

>Spellcaster casts Find Traps >Party immediately falls into a hole full of spikes >Spellcaster: „Found it!“

[@twicedeadmage]

That sounds funny. Find Traps giving you a magic Bear Trap

[@antiscam2468]

@@twicedeadmage like a mini glyph of warding. Maybe a bit of damage and Restrained condition? 1d10 and restrained until end of next turn?

[@twicedeadmage]

@@antiscam2468 It could be. But what would it happens if you Up Cast it. Maybe a Better Trap?

[@exturkconner]

The fact that it doesn't find the trap, and just alters you to the presence of traps in the area sucks. It seems like it should be a secondary effect of some other spell as opposed to a full spell on its own. If the spell alerted you to the location of all the traps in a room, and as a secondary effect could tell you if there are other traps in a radius that'd be fine as an example.

[@ala5530]

Purify Food and Drink is something of a sleeper hit for me: it's a ritual spell for clerics, so it's essentially free for them (they just need to remember to prepare it after a long rest). One casting can ensure a literal wagonload (ok, depending on the size of the wagon, possibly 2 or 3 castings) of food or drink is safe to consume. Remember Curse of Strahd? The sidequest with the vintners? A couple of in-game hours spent ritual casting this won't save or ensure their next harvest, but it will ensure that you can deliver a dray full of their current vintage to the people of Barovia. For that matter, if you're in a town/castle under siege, making sure people have adequate safe food is super useful, and more efficient than Goodberry or Create Food and Drink (provided they had supplies to begin with). I'll agree it is super situational though. (On a somewhat disgusting and at best morally dubious [if not outright evil] note: if the caster has anthropophagous [people-eating. It's only cannibalism if it's a member of the same species] tendencies, you can argue that the spell can remove diseases or the poisoned condition from creatures. One of the best ways to keep meat fresh is to keep it alive until you're ready to slaughter and eat it, so if they see the creature as food once killed, and don't have ready access to some way of preserving it [salt, a Bag of Holding filled with ice, whatever], they should see them as food while still alive, so you could argue that the spell should work. This does have some issues for intraparty conflict though, even if the DM doesn't let it work, as one PC has just told the party that they would kill and eat another PC... which would make sense for yuan-ti or dhampir, but doesn't necessarily make them any friends)

[@Clarey06]

Mage armour is top tier on a sorcerer with extended spell metamagic. 16hrs of Protection for 1 point and a 1st lvl spell. *Chef kiss*

[@Ox9707]

I agree. Mage armor first, then shield. Covers your bases better and lasts longer. (Hilarious conversation though)

[@fasterpet]

Sanctuary is great if the barbarian is dodging in the doorway or a squishy party member found themselves surrounded by enemies.

[@derekstein6193]

Jump is useful for: 1) jumping across chasms or narrow rivers 2) hopping over a ground hazard (Grease spell, lava pool) 3) bypass most forms of difficult terrain 4) jump over a trapped section of dungeon floor when you can't disarm the trap 5) jumping onto the back of Huge/Gargantuan creature 6) getting over high walls without climbing (especially the Firewall spell) 7) quickly getting to high ground for tactical advantage or to aid in escape

[@rantdmc]

The Shield / Mage Armour argument - peak D&D comedy content!

[@umpalumpaflea]

I really enjoy having Sanctuary, with my group tend to use it as a "get of my squishy buddy" card, and as soon as is in a safe place again starts attacking again. When we fight more intelligent beings that tend to target the "clothies" first, Sanctuary in combo with Bane works very nicely

[@notoriousthief]

Mage armor gains more value at higher levels, and as a sorcerer, you can turn the rest of your level 1 spells into sorcery points.

[@LordNerfherder]

Identify is extremely underrated in terms of pure mechanics. Most think detect magic gives half an identify. It does not. Looking at a wooden tile that is magical with detect magic you get zero information about what it does. It's just enchantment. However, with identify you get information about exactly what it does. You instantly get the information that it's an enchantment that triggers something once stepped on. It also lets you identify magical effects on a boss or similar. You can identify a strange magical field and know if it's a forcefield that destroys or a portal that takes you somewhere else. You can find out what any sort of enchantment buff or ongoing effect is. This opens up so many different options for a party if used in a clever way.

[@TheLordRumfish]

Treantmonk makes a similar argument to Kelly at low levels for Shield over Mage Armor. When you only have 2 or 3 spell slots total, you really want to be using them for Sleep or something. You cast Shield if you have to, but you aren't going to be getting into a whole day of combat at level 1 or 2. Mage Armor is better when you have enough spell slots to fight multiple battles.

[@allenfortenberry9924]

One way to use Illusory Script is to use it to send the players to an area that is essentially a red herring but still connects to the plot. Or give them a password in the note that is understood by the minions to be the "imposter's" password for people who don't decipher the real messages

[@evanunhinged5771]

Gotta say, I'm a mage armor apologist. Shield is SO good at nullifying hits over a round, but like. I can't argue with a long lasting passive benefit, I love that shit

[@fantasyfighter98]

In our campaign we had a wand of magic missile, and it was used to last hit every boss for an entire year (we had no caster who could take it). Eventually our dm took it off us for "payment" to get a dragons help. The fact it auto hits, it is so powerful and IMO the best first level damage spell.

[@TheSeventhChild]

Don't give up Kelly, I know exactly where you're coming from on Mage Armour and I'm firmly in the B Camp as well.

[@mattsmith5940]

A couple of uses of sanctuary I wish had been discussed: 1) An ally goes down and casting sanctuary helps them not be permanently killed until someone can get to them. 2) Battle Smith artificer cast on steel defender where the SD is based with a main monster and you stay at range. If they don’t have ranged attacks, they’re largely unused. As an artificer, you have tons of bonus action options so rather than having your SD attack, you just let it apply disadvantage on the enemy when it DOES used ranged attacks without ending the spell. Anyhow, still think A or B for the cost but a fun discussion.

[@AkameOda]

As a cleric I used Sanctuary in a duel & had amazing results. You guys mentioned it's a bnus action but didn't mention you can just recast it every turn if you've got plenty of slots. Attack > Sanctuary > Attack > Sanctuary >Attack > Sanctuary! Also she got drunk with her friends & had a fist fight with the lizardman with 2 shields & the shield spell. STILL monk punched his 25 AC! We used to take Identify to discover cursed items in older editions. If it doesn't do that now: D tier. Not paying 100g to learn what a cape does when I can just put it on.

[@Murrshack]

Sat here the whole time to the end (I was going to anyway) and I realized towards the end that I wasn’t going to get to hear a rant about Silvery Barbs. It better be half of the next video 😂

[@GeoSaga13]

When you asked which abjuration spell you should take first, and your Dungeon Dads won't stop fighting 😢😂 In all seriousness, I think I'm with Kelly, but that's also probably my bias towards the impulsive instant options talking. Great video, guys!

[@adamwatson9272]

I know, right? What I really want to know is where is the love for Blade Ward? lol

[@sdjmar]

I think the Mage Armour vs. Shield debate that the Dudes are having in this video is the prime example of the divide between Sorcerer & Wizard mains. To Kelly's point, is Mage Armour worth 1/3 of your 1st level spell choices as a Sorcerer? Maybe, but it is a really tough call to make. Whereas, with Shield, if that isn't on your list as a Sorcerer you made the wrong choices on your spells. To Monty's point, as a Wizard is Mage Armour worth 1/8 of your 1st level spell choices? Almost always, and if it isn't, you can just buy it and write it quickly and easily. Both sides see the value of the spell, but if you aren't factoring in the opportunity costs associated with the choice of spell you don't get the full picture.