Dungeons of Doria - A Review of a Generous Dungeon Crawler with Clever Mechanisms | Sponsored

[@vahrens]

Great review covering most points. Thank you! I saw no wrong rule interpretations when watching it. Even though I hoped you like it a bit better, I fully understand your criticisms and even agree partially. To comment a bit on your negatives: - Going out for the round has been bothering me for some time, but so far I could not come up with something clever to still do it, but have some little extra possibility. We are still thinking about that, and if anyone has ideas, let me hear them (take control of a monster through the astral plane, helping the others? Allow other heros to wake up the character? ... ) - The downward spiral: As you mentioned, sometimes it is better to run and escape a scenario, though most players tend to "we die trying and never run". But yes, if you stay, you need a way ro recover somehow - get this one character in the play again, move to a more secure location, get rid of the monsters to get a breather and heal everyone. If none of that seems possible, run out and come back later! - No skills: We will be working on small expansions that include more mechanics (for example for unconscious characters) and skill trees for characters. However, we want to make very sure they are as balanced as possible and do not favor a specific character class. - Monsters with seven modifiers: While this might happen from time to time (having 160 monster cards with 50 mods leaves 1 mod for every second monster roughly), it is unlikely. Better to give the deck a very thourough shuffle initially, putting a mod after two monsters and then shuffle again. It will still happen, and most people still find it hilarious to encounter such a "mini-boss". The main problem seems to be to the armor of some of these monsters, and my main recommendation for this is: Keep in mind that you can take as many Standard Items into the Dungeon as you want, and a few of these have special abilities to go through armor (either piercing or elemental). Or search more treasure and find something usable. It is so rewarding for most players to kill a few Goblins and find the spell or weapon that can kill this one tough Gargoyle finally. But I understand, that some people don't like that this can happen. - Many people underestimate the doom track. A few groups are very efficient in playing and the doom track nearly never advances (with each round 1 step), some do not care and will quickly face Level 2 monsters - making it harder overall. And I might change it in future editions to work slightly differently. Any ideas welcome. Past playtesting versions had a card deck to draw on extra activations - resulting in good or bad things happening instead of simply activating monsters. But that added another layer of randomness and just added to more time being used. We will think about that for possible expansions and house-rule possibilities. - And yes, having two 1s at initiative needs to have either also something good (see above unconscious point) or can be houseruled to not have an impact as long as you have positive HP/PP. Most roleplayers like it (they are used to Nat 1s or Fumbles), but I understand that is definitely not for everyone to just move into a dungeon and stumble on the stairs, hitting your head... 😅

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for taking the time to share a more detailed view of your design approach, Viktor. I am sure a lot of people will like the things that didn't gel with me, and again, I have to say I am really impressed with how much game you crammed into the box. A lot of big companies don't offer half as much. We really struggled with breaking through monster armour in a lot of our games. I liked the adventurer's starting sword, which you can charge with different elemental powers. I would say that power alone makes it one of the best starting items available. I think we got unlucky with mods quite often as they seemed to come in clumps. One of my group suggested separating out all the mods from the monster deck and rolling a number of D10 for each monster that spawns equal to the current monster level, with each dice that was equal to or less than the current level giving the monster a mod card. Skills would be interesting, although I don't personally mind that its your loot that determines most of your abilities. One of my favourite games is Dark Souls, and in that game most of your skills come from the equipment you have. However, each class in that game does also get one special ability, which adds just a touch more colour to the characters. But anyway, thanks again for your detailed post. I do hope Dungeons of Doria continues to do well, and that you run a second Kickstarter for another print run.

[@vahrens]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Suggestions for mod house rules have been to integrate it with the Monster Level as the highest number of mods possible per Monster. Keep any additional mods drawn for the next monster. We are also working on a campaign dealing with modded monsters, where you separate all mods from the deck into its own deck and then for example in the first scenario every monster simply gets one mod. Things like that make it less hard and more planable and could be incorporated into normal gameplay. Though I still think that the main problem could have been the initial shuffle, as you say they were coming in clumps. Will definitely add more info on that to the rules and FAQs 😊

[@roguebanshee]

A lot of the game feels like it could have been designed by someone saying "I like that bit in that game, that bit in that other game, that bit in that third game...", trying to cram everything into a single unified experience. This kitchen sink very rarely works out as intended, and even if the final product is playable there will likely be elements that work against each other and/or the overall complexity is going to make it a slog. An old axiom about design is that less is more and a good designer knows what to cut while keeping the whole intact. But there are certainly those who enjoy their games being highly complex, and if they are your target demographic the rules probably just need some minor tweaks.

[@BLDTHEGAMER]

This was 6 months ago...was any of this addressed? I bought this game because I was told that it was a descent 2nd edition killer. Is that the case? From what I've seen...a few videos. Yiu open rooms and attack monsters, basic Dungeon Crawl stuff...but the math's are a little bothersome. Isn't there a way to visually do all this rather than d&d it. Initiative tracks are great and this ganes initiative track is clever. Hiw are the scenarios. I stopped after the tutorial cause I was left wanting. Also no skill trees? Bad idea.

[@vahrens]

@@BLDTHEGAMER My recommendation would be to discuss this on BGG with other players that like the game. If you know exactly what you don't like, there might be some optional rules to counter your dislikes and make it more likable for you :)

[@Grognard-Solo-Gaming]

Great video! I really appreciate that you give your honest opinion, even if it’s not positive, it builds trust in all other reviews 👍👏 I’ve gotten quite a few games recommended by more “hyped” channels, where I’ve been disappointed and I’ve wondered why they gave the game such a glowing review.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching, I'm glad you liked the video. I think it's really important to be honest in all my reviews, but at the end of the day, it's still just my opinion so hopefully people can still watch my reviews and say, "Okay, he didn't care for that one, but I saw enough fun elements to think I would want to give it a try myself."

[@HivisoftheScale]

Dear god... 7 modifiers ontop of the Orc? That guy must have been on his way to a new Waaagh!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

He was a one-orc wrecking machine.

[@haxan6663]

I have played one of the campaigns through to the end and loved it. I played with a rule that there was one modifier per monster as it is hard enough without adding multiple extras?! I played solo, with 3 characters and I wasn't successful in the end, but I did have fun. And it is a joy to have so much gameplay, all fitted into one box, instead of a dozen.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Glad to hear you are enjoying the game. Limiting modifiers is a good call because enemies can quickly get out of hand otherwise.

[@p.henrique9088]

Thank you for sharing your experience with this game, and for the detailed explanation of how it is played. I am a backer, waiting for my copy to be delivered. By watching this video I can already tell you that I will certainly dislike the exact same things you didn´t like. We will have to house-rule it, and take a few things out of the way to be able to fully enjoy the experience.

[@vahrens]

The good thing: It is easy to houserule most of this. Feel free to reach out to me any time and ask if a specific house rule has any weird consequences of making it too easy or hard - best would be to post on BGG, so others can also benefit from it. Will definitely also collect houserules and add them to the FAQ later on.

[@p.henrique9088]

​@@vahrens Thanks! I do think that house ruling a couple things here should be easy. We might limit the number of modifiers per monster and ignore the "1s" rule for the initiatives, so heroes can always activate but with fewer APs during those turns. The fumbles during attacks and defenses I would keep though. We might give it a try with these little tweaks and see how it goes.

[@vahrens]

@@p.henrique9088 We already have something similar in the rules when playing with only 1 character. Problem: If characters don't get unconscious, they die faster, as unconscious characters normally are ignored by monsters. That makes it a bit harder overall, but at least all characters can act at least once a round.

[@p.henrique9088]

​@@vahrens got it. I guess we will need to give it a try as it is first and add any house rules only if something is taking the fun out of it. Anyways, thank you for your support Viktor, it is great to be able to reach out to an open-minded creator, I appreciate that very much. I am very excited to play DoD with my wife!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching the review. I think Viktor has very thoroughly covered everything else (with a lot more authority on the subject!) so I don't really have anything else to add other than to say I really hope you enjoy the game when it arrives. As I said in the review, there is a lot of really interesting stuff going on in there.

[@xSean0607]

Im still as hyped as I think it's strenghts will far suprass its flaws for me.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Glad you are still hyped. I hope you have a lot of fun with it.

[@SugaryCoyote]

Lots of very clever ideas put together in one box.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The game really is packed with a lot of creativity. Some things I've never seen before, or not seen often.

[@genghisgahan9623]

I think with a few house rules, this game would be great!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a lot of game with some very interesting ideas in it. I think a lot of people are really going to enjoy it.

[@clwnthr]

Thanks for this one, much appreciated. The loot being stripped doesn't make very much sense here. It's a bit "anti" what most people like in a Dungeon Crawl 😕

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. You could probably houserule it easily to let players keep more things. I didn't really enjoy having my best kit taken away from me after each dive into the dungeon!

[@haxan6663]

I like Oathsworn's approach, where you lose one item after a battle but can then choose from the next level for the next encounter. Losing most of your items doesn't make much sense thematically? I am a backer of DoD but don't have my copy yet.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@haxan6663 I hope you really enjoy Doria when your copy arrives.

[@haxan6663]

You can take a number of items into the next scenario, depending on how far you are into the campaign. And you always have your basic items.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yes, I do explain that in the video.@@haxan6663

[@crazyvolucris]

Thank you for the insights and what i‘ve read during the KS i decided not to back it. So this got verified with your review. Tank‘s a lot 🙏🏻☺️

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for checking out the review.

[@EriktheRed2023]

What happens if you give up on a mission? In many rogue-likes, you need to spend some time grinding before going for an objective. Can you head into the dungeon, kill a few monsters, and then head out in preparation for a second try?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You are allowed to escape from the mission only if the entrance isn't blocked. For example, the first campaign mission we played, the entrance closed behind us and we had no choice but to play until we found a new way out. If you can escape, it is a way of breaking the cycle of being worn down in a situation you cannot hope to win. If you are allowed to escape you keep any experience points you earned and obviously your heroes retain their current levels, but the monsters also keep their "monster points" which is like their version of experience that scales the difficulty of the missions. Additionally, you will still have to discard most of the equipment you found as normal. So, for example, if you run out of the second mission in a campaign, you would still only be allowed to keep one item that you found before going back in.

[@HivisoftheScale]

Hehe "Chad Studley"? ...nice!😂

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. Yeah. It's my ultimate dude bro name.

[@HivisoftheScale]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring "Bro?" "Dude!!" "Bro!"

[@pedrowayne4675]

Thanks for the review. … I do wish you would have covered the actual combat mechanics .. one aspect I’ve heard that is really unique. Combat in a Dungeon Crawl game for me is a major aspect that I look at and can make or break my experience. … Do you think changing the aspect where you give up your loot at the end of a scenario might change the Grind aspect? I’m feeling like that might be one area for a quick house rule tweak …

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I did cover the combat system. I went into some detail on critical successes, fumbled, and exploding dice, parrying, dodging, armour, and line of sight.

[@19kvet96]

I have a hard time getting into campaign games where your loot is taken away and your restricted. So that's a killer for me, but dang was I excited about this game and it's systems.

[@Lwilibert]

man i wish they hadn`t kept the icons from the free rpg icon website. makes it look like the prototypes we create at home. I like everything else tho and that`s my only gripe from what you`ve shown.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I've seen a couple of games recently that have used free icon assets. It's a shame because they tend to look a little rough and out of place, especially when you see them alongside really nice artwork. I understand why they did it, but it would be nice to see those assets updated in any reprint.

[@chadnine3432]

It looks great. I might pick it up and houserule it.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. Glad you liked the look of it. There is loads of content, and lots of little tweaks you can make to the rules.

[@kalajel]

Not to be confused with its DragonBall Z spinoff: Dungeons of Dodoria.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. Is that the one where every quest lasts 10 playing sessions?

[@danielwilliamson6180]

Good review.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. Glad you liked it.

[@danielwilliamson6180]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring I've made some Lego fantasy MOCs thanks to games like this and HeroQuest.

[@narcisbolog7825]

I think you need to come into this expecting a rogue-lite where you might have good runs and very bad runs.

[@vahrens]

You are correct, it says exactly that on the back of the box: A cooperative roguelike loot crawler for 1-6 players! 😁 If you don't like randomness, this is definitely not a game for you.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yes, you can definitely have swings of favour. I felt we were generally more on the back foot, constantly facing challenges that seemed too extreme for our current level, but that may have just been a run of very bad luck. I don't mind the occasional random beat down (my favourite game ever is DungeonQuest), but I did feel that missions were tending to run a little long for a game that could spin out of your control relatively easily. But absolutely, it is pitched as a rogue-like and you should think of it as such. And if you love constantly churning up new loot to experiment with, you will find more than enough here!

[@tiredguy2753]

Yeah I am not really the biggest fan of after rolling high enough to hit you have to roll again to beat armor or you do 0 damage. It just feels so unsatisfying, like if you had a default damage amount you did even if you did not beat the armor roll would feel better . Instead it’s like “well I guess I didn’t do anything this turn”…

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Just to clarify, there is no second roll to beat the armour. You do fixed damage when you hit, which is reduced by the armour class of the target. However, you can increase the damage you inflict by scoring critical successes when you attack, and this is often necessary as a target's opponent will regular match or exceed your base damage. Nevertheless, the result is often the same - you beat your opponent, but not with a good enough roll to bypass their armour.

[@tiredguy2753]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring so you can still have cases where even though you hit , your hit may not be enough to bypass the armor and hence the enemy would take no damage?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yes, that happens all the time. If I have a sword that does one damage, and I successfully hit a monster that has one armour, that hit will only do damage if I have some way to ignore the armour (such as an elemental attack that matches the weakness of the armour) or I can boost the damage value of my sword through a special power or by rolling critical successes when I attacked, as each critical success will increase the damage by one.

[@tiredguy2753]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring ah I see , kind of a turn off for me that being said ty for letting me know.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a pretty neat idea, and I like that it's wrapped up in a single dice roll, but unfortunately I found it quite frustrating at times. Was happy to help; thanks for checking out the video.

[@pirtrom11]

wow good review

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it.

[@polfig7558]

It sounds like CoraQuest++.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I've never played CoraQuest, but from what I've seen I don't personally see a lot of similarities beyond the surface similarities of dungeons, standees, and perhaps how the dungeons are set up to begin.

[@mcashed]

I totally respect the amount of work and talent that goes into creating such a huge and intricate game, but in my experience, needing to juggle hundreds of components have a tendency to turn even the most exciting adventure into a slog of bookkeeping.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It really is an impressive amount of work, but I know what you mean. Dungeon Universalis fell flat for me simply because there were too many components and too many rules getting in the way of the adventure.

[@genghisgahan9623]

I love the look of this game. I prefer my fantasy to be western and traditional - dwarves have ginger beards and Scottish accents, goblins are green, orcs are always evil etc - no purple hair gender ambiguous furries wearing gravity defying armour bikinis for me!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I know what you mean. I love the classic fantasy style. I am more than happy to beat up goblins.

[@genghisgahan9623]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring though I will say, I did find the scarlet heroes setting to be interesting - but I will always default back to my tolkienseque comfort zone.

[@1AngelAlita]

I miss some kind of conclusion..

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The first two minutes of the video contain a pretty comprehensive overview of my position on the game - interesting mechanisms, incredibly generous, expansive loot system, and with loads of replayability, but it didn't click with me. Then from around the 27 minute mark onwards are my final thoughts on the game and why ultimately I didn't enjoy it like I thought I would. If I can help with anything else, just let me know.

[@storcx608]

Developers need to tone down on the tokens or find another system 'cause this is getting out of hand. The tiny tokens on the character sheet did it for me. How many different tokens are there here and how many in total? It's hell to manage

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Dungeons of Doria had a lot of tokens. At least you could opt out of using them to track heroes and use a pencil and write on the character sheets instead.

[@kosterix123]

These are all points that you could have known before backing. To complain now just showcases your lack of involvement and your misunderstanding that crowdfunding means more than just buying product from a shop in a take it or leave it fashion.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

This game was sent to me for review. I didn't back it. My review is intended to inform people of how the game plays, and what I liked and didn't like, so they can make a more informed decision about purchasing it themselves. It's also worth noting that there is a lot about the game I like, but it didn't hinge together in a way I personally found fun. That's often something that only comes out once you have hands-on experience with a game, as on paper it looked like it should have been a game I really enjoyed.

[@kosterix123]

​@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring you could have changed the rules. But it was too much to ask.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

As a small channel, the majority of my content still comes from products I purchase myself; but I am very lucky that occasionally a company will offer to collaborate with me. I always appreciate that as it helps to keep the channel going. I don't always say "yes," though. It has to be something I like, or which I think is a good fit for the content I make here. I'm glad there were some takeaways from the video you found helpful. Thanks for watching.

[@JevousGaming]

Bloody hell man, did someone hurt you today? This is a small channel that covers a very niche side of the hobby, giving us very concise points to consider when deciding to spend our money. These kinds of games don’t hit the mainstream and it’s really up to small channels like this to keep us informed about independent games in this space. This is over and above this man’s normal job and you get to watch it for free. “Made a handy profit plus ads…” 😂 I can promise you ads made on views like this channel gets don’t pay the bills brother, this is all a labor of love.

[@JevousGaming]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoringSorry you have to deal with this side of the internet. Completely undeserved and shows complete ignorance.

[@StorminWolf]

Not a fan of Standees. Even if the game looks interesting this is for me personally a No-go.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I know where you're coming from, but it's a concession that would have been necessary to get the game made in the first place. Every enemy is very easy to replace with a plastic miniature if you have a reasonable collection of miniatures from other fantasy games.

[@StorminWolf]

Oh I get that, but I do have an Unreasonable collection of Miniatures. ;) :D Still not buying another Dungeon Crawler, unless it has Miniatures and stuff, personally the paper standee optics does not appeal to me at all, plus the game looked very overcomplicated bordering on a simulation to me then it was funded, hence i did not back it. I do appreciate however the work and indeptht review you put out. Confirms a lot of things I was concerned about, unfortunately.. @@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Fair points. I'm not opposed to standees (I love Legends of Andor, for example) but I do tend to gravitate to the board games with miniatures. Thanks for checking out the review, and for the kind words.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

What size is the grid on the tiles?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The grid is 25mm, and all of the standees regardless of creature size are 25mm diameter.