Duo Queue & SoloQ Communication | Broken by Concept 192 | League of Legends Podcast

[@CoachCupcake]

Since it sounded for a second that you may be encouraging duoing for botlane, my 2 cents on this: I've seen many of my students who duo'ed with an ADC and took no responsibility for wave management or any meaningful decisions: when to fight, when to base etc. And that is ONE of the dangers of duoing for ANY 2 roles - shifting responsibility away from yourself. For botlane it's even worse as you basically don't have any time by yourself. That is no way to improve at the game. Sure, if it's a truly collaborative effort and you're committed for the long run, then there could be some value. I have my doubts that exists. I try to simplify it more and tell my students that duoing is for fun, solo queue is for improvement. Great episode as always boys!

[@CrystalArrow-r2z]

As a bot main I see myself dying a morbillion times on bad engages with my supports, that I can't ignore as my duo would scream at me in comms if I did.

[@younggod5230]

wow, perfectly sussinct and sensible

[@Brosak.]

My best friend showed me league in season 3. Just a few hours ago we finished a duo game together as adc and supp. We have clear coms and a very high winrate compared to our solo q games. (53>57%) in low diamond still climbing. We play a bit more solo queue but when we play together the intensity is more on which is super fun and we discuss within a few seconds what the best move is which often leads to educational games. I must admit our champ pool is very wide 4-5 as we love fist fights early so counter picking or according picks are big part of our game.

[@theclimbto1]

Let's say a Player aspires to go Pro. To play for a Team. Now on that Team, he's going to have to play in Structure. He's going to have to understand the dynamics of 4 other Players. Where, do you suggest... they learn this? Duoing, you being to learn dynamics with 1 other person. That's the first step, it's a start. If the only thing you EVER want to do is Play Alone... sure. But if you ever want to be on a Team... this advice does nothing but make mechanically good Bad Team Players who don't understand Team Dynamics and how to fit their Play Style with that of 4 other Individuals working together. If you only play alone, there's no way to ever improve being able to play with others.

[@younggod5230]

@@theclimbto1 That is just not true. You domt necessarily learn anything about being in a Team by duoing. It simply adds ANOTHER thing you have to learn while playing duo que, whereas in soloq you dont have that burden. Communicating with one exzra person isnt even worth that much, because the other team will also have a duo. It's not like your gaining an advantage. The way you actually learn to fit into a team is by playing as a team, and having intense learning, not only focused on the game itself, but also just the team aspect by itself. Any team that is in any way serious about going anywhere has a COACH. Because coordinating a team of players is complex, and players cannot simply do it by themselves. You have to actually listen to the arguments against duoing they bring up. They obviously dont take an "anti duo! never duo ever ever!!!" stance. they give a lpt pf problems duoing might introduce. Heres the thing! Exceptions obviously exist. If you and your duo are on the same page about learning the game and improving together AS A DUO that is perfect. Cherry on top is if you get coached as a duo. Most duos do not do this. And even if, playing as duo doesnt do anything to prepare you for a 5 man team dynamic. You seem to think that duo is just a couple of steps below 5 man, but basically the same. Its not. It's fundamentally different. In a duo, you are half of the team. The amount of responsibility, but also freedom you have is so much higher than on a 5 man, where you are literally just a fraction of the team. Consider this. Between 2 points, you can only draw one line. Between 5 points, you can draw 10 lines! So this means on duo there is you and your duo. 1 interaction. On 5 man, you have an interaction with 4 other players, and everyone of those players also has an interaction with 4 other players. Duoing does nothing to help you slot into this. In this podcast nathan and curtis talk about tons of stuff that might be bad or hinder your improvement. But their bottom line is ALWAYS this: if it is a priority to you, and you dont enjoy the game without it, then do it. Playing a large champion pool for example. They think its a bad idea, but if it makes you enjoy the game,.or if you wouldnt be playing the game, then you simply have to take that compromise, and accept that you wont be climbing as efficiently as you could. They obviously understand that its worth it then. I hope you consider some of what Ive said.

[@jackjonesy]

I've only had one duo partner in 10 years thats genuinely worked. It was a Chinese bloke that only played Lee/J4 and I was playing Anivia at the time. We never spoke because of the language difference and our only form of communication was by pinging. It was essentially like soloqueue but removing the chance of getting some mentally ill jg main that'll grief the game at any chance they see. We both shared the same view of the game and would type time stamps at then end of the game to watch whilst in queue. We both went from plat 1 to masters. Now he is back in china I think and I haven't been back to masters since

[@LeHeartly]

I love this story. That dude sounds like a real one! Grats to the both of you having awesome teamwork and being a part of each other's goals for growth, and for the achievements you two got to share!

[@jacobsolliday8017]

"We were work proximity associates."

[@Dark2NeS]

im still looking for that one. the only duo i had taught me the game, after I outranked him, i realized i couldn't coach him up the way he coached me up, he would argue he is right no matter what, even if it is obviously a deicision making thing he would talk of the mechanics like he didnt choose a hard play etc. Still looking for a duo on em/plat lvl for me to actually climb with, and i gank bot to win most games so i want an adc main ONLY. it is very hard to find as they get emotional and i realize it isn't what i want to be, i dont want to results based my duo queue games.

[@andrew_240]

I learned the game through duoQ. My friend was a gold-ish player and I was completely new to the game. We played jhin/thresh bot lane EVERY game for 300 games in a row and we climbed to plat together. We got specific, analyzed the lanes, came up with plans. It was some of the most fun I've ever had in league because it really felt like we were learning to play the game better together. This was way back in season 7 as well.

[@quoderatdemon]

where is my motivation from nathan?

[@LeHeartly]

I am new to (playing) League starting with S14 (but have watched pro LOL over the years). I began playing because I heard that this season would be a major change given the removal of the Mythic item system and changes to The Rift, and because my language exchange partner (now close friend) living in Spain loves the game and I thought it would be a fun way for us to bond given that we don't get a lot of time to hang out. In the past couple years, she's made it her goal to climb the ranked soloq ladder, and I loved seeing her drive, so I thought it would be a cool and fun thing for us to do together in duos, along with experiencing the big changes to the season. So I asked her if she would like to do a ranked climb together for the first split of S14, and she said yes. In prep of this, I did come across the BbC podcast and learned a lot, notably of which was Curtis' and Nathan's feelings about duos. From my experiences so far with my first split being only duos (her Mid, myself ADC), I feel quite similarly to Curtis and Nathan about duos not being recommended to grow as an elite player. Considering this, me and my duo have agreed that it's best that we try to replicate the soloq environment as much as possible, so no voice comms, focusing on how we can use high quality pings and chat instead -- basically while in-game, treat the other as though they're a faceless stranger from soloq. The main focus of ranked duos for us is mostly the social aspect of it by spending time together and forging memories of intense matches we got to share, but at the same time sharing in one another's personal journey of growth as a player. Because of our approach to duos being something like a soloq-but-together thing, we still come face to face each game with the areas that need improvement, such as CS'ing, pings, tracking jungler and roams, proficiency in lane matchups, managing tilt, and the list goes on. This also keeps replays valuable to review since whenever either of us make a decision, we made that decision on our own, we are accountable for the consequences, and we can review them later knowing we made the choice for our own reasons and look for what could have possibly been better. Duos definitely has its limits and I still don't think I recommend it if the highest levels of play is what you're aiming for. Because even with this approach, it's still not exactly soloq since we're playing games where the champs in our roles are consistently the same since we're playing with our mains -- whereas in soloq you always have to adapt to an ever-shifting team comp and players each game. But duos isn't entirely useless, and so long as you put in the proper framework to the duos, you can still be given the situations to work on and improve on the things that you would encounter in soloq games. I don't have ranked anxiety due to my gaming background, so I'm not into duos to avoid ranked anxiety or to lessen the toxicity I might encounter by having my friend always with me (I play with chat muted but pings unmuted anyways), but I do empathize with people that currently can only play ranked if its duos for these reasons. I just think it's important to be aware of the limitations of growth that duos has and be realistic about them, and that certain plateaus will happen until you outgrow duos. For now I'm having a blast climbing the ladder with my duo as a social activity intertwined with a competitive hobby. We could go 0-200 or whatever and I still feel it would have been the time of life because I'm truly enjoying playing the game and the grind of running into problems and getting in the lab to figure out solutions. Doing it alongside a good friend of mine, sharing thoughts and ideas after our ranked block about our individual problems or getting to not only congratulate each other for an awesome play but also being there to witness it is an amazing feeling. Those are the real wins, not the wins on the record or the LP we gain. We won't be doing duos forever but for what it is capable of providing us right now, it's really an incredibly fulfilling thing that I'm glad is available to us, and I'm loving every second of it. If you made it this far, I appreciate you taking the time to read all of this. Whoever you are, I hope that you are finding joy and success in whatever it is you're striving for in League whether it's with duos or not, or in life in general. Keep on rocking! Cheers

[@Brosak.]

W comment

[@benjaminghazi787]

Are you just trying to flex that you know a girl?

[@GubbiGap]

That's sounds like an awesome frame for duos! I used to play very little ranked due to ranked anxiety and most of the time I'd play with a friend because I was scared to face the toxicity in the game. I didn't play consistently because of it so it's awesome to hear about a duo that actually does and makes it work! Keep it up! :D

[@LeHeartly]

@@GubbiGap Yeah, struggling with ranked anxiety and facing toxicity are so real. I known about League for years but never got into it because of how often I heard online and from friends just how toxic it was and the expectation of being flamed and harassed on a daily basis literally scared me away. Fast forward to a few months ago and I discover the BbC podcast and they managed to convince me that there is a way to dive into the game free from the negativity, or at least greatly minimized, and I'm so grateful for it. But that's not to say that ranked (or just general online gaming) anxiety can't be a struggle, or that you won't face toxicity whatsoever. My duo and I are playing on EUW and they're pretty chill there for the most part. One day I forgot to mute chat and a teammate was yelling at me and called me a disgusting pig, and I gotta say, sure that's toxic behavior, but I must admit it gave me a great laugh too LOL I'm glad to know you have (had?) a friend by your side to play with, even if it probably wasn't as consistent as you would have liked. And at the end of the day, Ranked isn't the end-all-be-all for League. There's so many ways to get something worthwhile from the game. Sounds like you still got a lot out of your time with League, and that's awesome! Hopefully you still get to greatly enjoy the game whenever and wherever you step onto the Rift! Rooting for you!

[@GubbiGap]

@@LeHeartly I never had a permanent duo partner it was more like if I happened to have only one friend online sometimes we'd just play ranked. I never touched the mode alone until I joined MLS (Curtis's below Plat program) and I'm finally feeling okay playing ranked :)

[@vellor9145]

Wait what?! A double whammy? Two uploads so short between one another? Lets goooo

[@FR4NKYEtheIV]

we are truly getting spoiled here

[@Nuvizzle]

To be honest everyone talks about duo primarily in the sense of bot lane, but in my experience the most impactful duo is support+jungle. You don't need to be coordinating in lane with them, so it doesn't add any extra mental stress to laning, but you can coordinate roams and objectives well ahead of time. Being able to know when and where you'll be able to have a man advantage is way more important than coordinating small micro decisions in lane, I think it can actually help build a better understanding of timings and intent of the other role for both players, and since you're still left to your own devices in lane you can focus on individual improvement as well.

[@bravepotatoe7513]

i'm biased since I main mid but jg/mid duo kinda does what you described but you have a high income role and it's quite easy to impact side lanes by playing trough mid first.

[@tomasgregor8500]

As a jungle main i learned trough time to duoQ only with supports, because if i duoQ with laners, they tend to force me to focus on accelarating their lane and that resulted in worse macro. DuoQing with supports actually helped me to have better controll of objectives and map over all

[@smappa849]

I just have to chime in on the new player duo experience. When I started lol in season 7-8, massive ranked anxiety, always duoed, first role jg since it was the role open(when we'd play normals in 3-5 groups), I only played lvl2 cheese stuff, kill red and flip the gank mid and hope my katarina otp duo carries. I hated the game, did not understand the game and my place in it, I didn't have the guts to properly confront my duo about it until way later, after which I could still not play with him at all. Worst gaming experience I've ever had. Great episode, very important topic!

[@GunzShufle]

You guys failed to point out any of the positives of having a consistent duo. It's true that it takes extra effort to not negatively affect your duos' mindset, but the amount of learning you can get from having a separate point of view that you trust and appreciate is crazy. Me and my duo talk over/review every game and try to identify things we could/should have done better. We are constantly calling each other out on cope/narratives and helping each other understand each others' roles better. It way easier to not tilt. Now that you are duo, you have another person that you care about that you are responsible for. If you can't find motivation to try for yourself, it's a lot easier to find motivation to try for your duo. It also just makes playing ranked more fun in general, which is always a good thing I think. It's so so hard to stay motivated when you are not having fun.

[@Aanenk]

That last segment about learning how to love learning is key IRL too.

[@garagavia]

I have tried duoing for short periods of time with a friend who I'm fairly aligned with. The value of sharing reflections and thoughts on how to play makes the game more fun. I agree that Duoing is probably counterproductive to the learning experience in most cases, but I think Curtis is on to something when he talks about good duos that work well in short periods of time. Those can also lead to long term learning if done well

[@Brosak.]

My best friend showed me league in season 3. Just a few hours ago we finished a duo game together as adc and supp. We have clear coms and a very high winrate compared to our solo q games. (53>57%) in low diamond still climbing. We play a bit more solo queue but when we play together the intensity is more on which is super fun and we discuss within a few seconds what the best move is which often leads to educational games. I must admit our champ pool is very wide 4-5 as we love fist fights early so counter picking or according picks are big part of our game.

[@guillaumelandry2776]

I'm an adc main, and mainly duo with my brother, who's a midlane main. We might say 10 word per game to each other so we barely communicate, we just play our game, then we review where we lost if we did. I would say that i rather have a random support than someone i know to support me. You get to play a variety of different lanes, if you got the same support who's maining 2 champ, you almost play the same lane and same champ so you lack information how to win with other champion

[@braintrust02]

Same here I’m a mid main, brother is jungle. We literally say like 10 words max and just focus. I think siblings it can maybe work better because we have years of conflict resolution where I don’t feel some pressure to change my game.

[@vovamorlino4573]

I think it's the opposite, if you have the same champ supper every game, you develop muscle memory and know exactly all the instances when you can take trades, kill, farm, etc.

[@guillaumelandry2776]

​@@vovamorlino4573 you're true, but you become a specialist of that "x" lane, but weaker if your not, past master you wont have that bread and butter duo synergie

[@vovamorlino4573]

@@guillaumelandry2776 master+ duoQ is back, Riot said, so don't see any issues, unless you don't like this idea of OTPing duo

[@ummerkasana]

Just an idea: Solo should be solo only. Duo could be played in ranked flex. This would revive flex. Also, make 4 man flex an option. If you find a 5th in one of those games you like, you've met your 5th and the solo player has met 4 others they can play with. If you que alone in flex you know what you're signing up for. I think the bullying aspect is not an issue.

[@wisdomandy9361]

I'm not sure if duo is accounted for in MMR inflation or not but I believe MMR for MMR, duo should not be allowed unless the other team has a duo. Same thing goes for fills. Though in my opinion despite que times, fill should never ever happen.

[@Bapi_K]

Resonated so heavily with last question, got to about the best players in 2 games and i knew what i needed to do to beat them and i had knowledge greater than the best in both, but i couldnt get my ass to work intensely enough to put in that effort and i just comfortably sat where i was hiding behind the fact that its still sure really good but in reality i wanted to be the best, rn in my league grind ive read/watched/studied so indepth and built up this massive knowledge/information mountain that i have to chase my execution to allign to, im still not gotten to where i will plateau, but when that time comes hopefully in this game i can remember back to the example given here, «just do it anyways» great episode highly motivational :D

[@F4ir8or]

1:07:28 Can someone please explain, what "lol states" or "low states" means?

[@Nova-mz9if]

lull states, moments in the game where you have a break essentially. E.g recalling or running back to lane after basing. Use them to gather information and plan

[@saiyansfizz]

Overall, I think duo-queue shouldn't be seen as something that will inhibit the learning process unless it is the primary way you interact with ranked. I think a healthy and efficient relationship with duo-queue is one that is sprinkled into a mainly solo-que experience, and with someone whom has a shared goal of learning and improvement. Some of my best learning on my way to challenger came from duo-queuing early on in my learning and being forced to have a conversation with the person I played with. A lot of times, this forced you to ask questions, discuss problems, and try to come up with a solution/explanation for certain aspects of the game as these problems that would come up. Of course, this requires you to find someone with similar values and goals to yourself. As you said, it's not all sunshine and rainbows as they could provide incorrect information, make you play differently, or create a weird ranked-anxiety dynamic which could lead you astray in your learning. However, I would argue just simply having a secondary perspective to discuss and force you to confront issues, regardless of who is right or wrong is something that will help long-term for a wholistic view of the game. It can also provide you with efficient learning simply because you're forced to confront problems and discuss every game where there's issues. You mentioned that you would need to see when, and what games. But you're missing the point. What actually matters is the discussion, the learning, and takeaways as you progress through your journey through the discussions you may have never had/considered due to a limited perspective Disclaimer: mid lane perspective Just my view, great listen as always guys

[@jeremyturner6815]

ITS AN EASTER MIRACLE THANK YOU BBC!!!!!

[@livinglegacy5687]

I kinda agree with the "no duo" strategy. My question is: Would having voice chat in solo queue change anything regarding learning the game by yourself, or would you say having voice chat would kinda do the same thing as having a duo or playing flex? Basically having people give you important information you otherwise wouldn't get if you weren't looking for it by yourself? I personally think voice chat is REALLY important for games, especially team oriented ones.

[@vikster3796]

One thing that helped me was to get a second account. And when my friend wants to duo I play with him on that account. And then I play solo on my main account

[@EverestGaming99]

I can feel the motivation oozing from Nathan's fist pump!

[@kouadio4231]

+ better to learn is indeed not duo, it is siting next to someone who play better than you and watch how he plays and what he does. Or you play, and he sits and help you to improve providing advices. That help really much, and that's how I personnally fast learned the basis of mechanics and strategy in LoL

[@nancypallol]

I duo bot with my husband on and off for many years and the only two seasons we had success in was when he played enchanter back in season 7, and last year when I treated it as solo q. He has the opposite play style and I compensate by following his plays that I didn’t understand/would never go in on simply from hearing his voice (he could be talking about anything, not just league). Don’t be in voice comms if you duo q.

[@eVillGaming-eng]

I used to ALWAYS duoQ with my brother and it was actually really fun, we have like 500 games played together. I used to be the midlaner and he'd be the support, try to get prio and always fight together in the jungle it was super fun to me and it helped me develop wave management because I had to prepare myself to be in the right situation. As both of us played on unstable ping, between 60 to 1000, that would straight up disconnect once a match (yea that bad) we weren't very good, he was silver and I just started playing the game, duo'd when he was silver and I was bronze 4, just got out of iron. I got to gold 1 and he got to gold 4 and we just recently stopped because the skill gap between us got a little too big

[@kylesizemore2751]

duoing is fun though. I play top and my buddy plays jungle. It's really comforting knowing at least one guy on the team other than me will be able to push his buttons and do his job. I one trick and literally do the same exact strat every single game and it's nice knowing at least one person on the team knows what i'm doing and why. I know for sure i can feed him kills and he'll typically carry from there. If he's having a bad game i just treat it like solo que and find the next carry to peel for. It creates a really chill and consistent environment instead of rolling the dice with a support who is mad about the adc giving first blood so he comes top and stays there for no reason refusing to leave.

[@tomasgregor8500]

Almost every time i went duoQ, my WR over all went down, because as a jungler i felt obligated to play around that one player, wich resulted in worsening my macro and objectives

[@dumpsterplayer2700]

im watching my friend play ranked and he's blaming his bad team mates all the time, i say on average its you its not your teammates its you over 100 games and he leaves the call mad. Can't even duo watch lol

[@jacobsolliday8017]

I think you guys are heading in the right direction. Maybe it's like, Basics (just navigating the game), Fundamentals (trading, farming, team fights), Champion Mastery (how to best use your kit in various situations, what your Champion can really do), Concepts (wave management, back timers, gank setup, rotations, objectives hierarchy) all sorts of specific game situations.

[@Shorins22]

Bit of a late comment, but how we talk about pre-fundamentals pre-champ mastery stuff in fighting games are generally the “rules” of the game and the fundamentals are how you manipulate those rules.

[@benhughes5308]

Curtis just explained something I often used to experience in mid lane that I never understood. I would find smurfs or higher ranked players in normals would just stand back from the wave and not move. I thought this was them baiting me into thinking they were bad, or just being distracted IRL, but likely they were just looking at a play in bot or top. Mind blown.

[@cellobuddy251]

I barely duo, but when I did, I was often like “sorry bro but I’m gonna have to sac you” when I needed to do other things on the map. The nice was, my duo partner totally understood this lol. I don’t duo anymore because I play league for myself, not for anyone else.

[@arkeantus5397]

My take on the bot lane duo situation in the perspective of a Diamond 1 ADC main. I think the best adcs understand how to adapt and play around bad supports. In my experience I feel like you grow a lot more when you play with a bunch of different support players and personalities and playstyles. Learning how to adapt to your support is crucial to being able to stabalize in games where your support doesn’t perform and even in the duo sense you would understand how to adapt to your support making mistakes if you’ve played with a bunch of bad supports. There’s no expectations. I think soloing as an adc main especially when learning the role is important if you intend on being an independent adc player.

[@benjaminghazi787]

As much as I want to clown you for feeling the need to include your rank in a sort of humble brag manner as if it has any point to the content of the rest of the comment, this is a fair point.

[@arkeantus5397]

@@benjaminghazi787 I add it for context and credibility. Although despite D1 not being as high as it could be what’s wrong with showing off the rank i spent multiple seasons of hard work trying to attain? I’m not better than anyone but i did achieve a goal I never thought I’d be able to achieve through process and hard work, would I be such a criminal for mentioning it once in a while? Especially when it’s an educational post.

[@benjaminghazi787]

@@arkeantus5397 sure man I’ll give you two reasons. One, adding it doesn’t change anything about the statement, it doesn’t make more credible. And secondly, no one really cares. Actually at worst why listen to a d1 player when someone could take a master, or gm, or challenger level player opinion? It sounds as if you’re trying to back up your statement with rank as if it’s a weak statement. But really you’re seeking validation by status, however your statement is fine standalone. Rubs people the wrong way and no one really cares.

[@arkeantus5397]

@@benjaminghazi787 I do agree it doesn’t change the statement I’m just aware in my experience people tend to tune out certain statements due to lack of credibility even if the statement is solid. But there is always someone better/higher to listen to so that makes sense. I’ll keep that in mind next time.

[@JHuZZy22]

Does anyone know a specific episode where they talk about "lil state" basics?

[@Kezui]

Not sure if its 100% correct but if i would simplify the statement about duo botlane i would say, if you want to win harder and make snowballing easier duo bot is a great. But as soon as you start losing, having issues or need to learn about things its way harder than soloqueue. its more effective for execution but not for problem solving

[@multicrogamer]

I ended online friendship cause my duo partner was raging and when i confronted him he said it's up to you... Later he guilt tripped me then i snapped. If you can't control your emotions while with other people it's your problem. You are responsible for your reactions and relationships. Not my problem if you can't deal with issues. Why would you play duo with somebod you don't vibe with? That's dumb decision. You aren't friends with everybody anyway.

[@0Bonaparte]

So, you duo with my (romantic) partner and it has caused some tension, but something that we have figured out is we have duo queue days (and I even have a duo account) and solo queue days. It allows us to both improve on our own and for me specifically I can also separate out my performance entirely so I know what I need to work on. Especially since we also Clash together so the Duo is important for our synergy

[@XZODIA1]

When I first started playing my duo told me farming minions was a high level concept that I shouldn't worry about 😭

[@iRiDiKi]

I want to ask - why are you adamant that players need a painful experience to properly learn? Back in Warcraft 3 days I would literally discuss games and go over replays with a practice partner and that was way more useful that throwing yourself at a wall and trying to figure shit out. Warcraft 3 as a whole had inhouses/pugs which League is missing and in those new players or worse players would be welcomed and given tips and help or they could watch and see how the good players talk about the game and etc. This whole thing in League of having to do it alone is only the case because no one has any idea on how to properly work with or talk to each other in good ways when it comes to the game and I think over the years people pushing that it's solo and to play solo is the very thing that made the culture and mindset of players being anti-team and anti-social in the first place. This isn't to say that struggling isn't a good way to learn, but rather, it doesn't have to be the only way to learn and saying that it is the best and only way to learn has overall been detrimental to the culture and pigeonholed it into actually being the best way to learn. And to me, that is really sad. I would love to practice the game with other players, I would love to discuss it with other players, I would love to go over replays with other players, yet I've never been able to find people who want or can actually do that without imploding.

[@pocalypse5726]

Can you guys make a short with the big points so I can send it to my friend who is in denial

[@theclimbto1]

7:23 "I can't confront him." Then you have a Communication Issue, and out of game you guys need to discuss the situation. That's not a reason to not Duo... that's teaching you that you need skills, you need to communicate with your partner and they need to communicate with you. In fact, they are... but you don't understand what they want when they do, and you don't ask them to clarify what they want. You shut down, and just let it sit there. Sounds like there could be some Self Improvement you could do there, some Learning you could do there, some Development you could do there. And wait... you guys Coach, so... isn't that exactly what you want Players to do? Self Improve, Learn, Develop? It's almost like saying "Do not Duo, because you will have to Improve and Learn". I guess that's the differenced in a Personal Trainer and a Coach. A Coach would say "Perfect time to work on Communication"... a Trainer would say "Just Solo and focus on you".

[@diversisle6739]

my brother is an adc main and I main supp and we have duod to master + multiple times and used to be hard stuck 5+ years ago. Its all about the mentality and dynamic between the two of you. If you can hold eachother accountable without being a dick it works. While saying this i wish duo was back in master + because now im forced to smurf because of this duo cap

[@gamera5160]

My duo is my brother and he's chill to play with. I feel like we're both short on time, though. I feel like league is changing too much too quickly for us to adjust the the meta and learn things and climb. I feel like we've been treading water because we can only play 1-3 games a day because we both work and have families. I'm not looking to climb to Master's, I just want to feel like I am improving. Is there a way to get the most out of a few daily games? When it comes to duo vs. not duo in ranked, I feel like bot lane is so much more frustrating when you're getting a random adc/support. I am not playing the game in a hyper competitive way. I want to win. I want to get better, but I play so I can hang out with my brother. Flex doesn't have good matchmaking. Normals doesn't have good matchmaking. People in both Flex and Normals don't take the games seriously, so they give up easy and int if people don't ff. I like to play with people who want to win. My brother feels the same way. Maybe that's damaging to our "league journey", but the game is so much less stressful when I have an adc who isn't flaming me or rage inting because I didn't pick the support they wanted me to play. I want to have fun while still playing competitively. Duoing has been the way I've been able to do that.

[@anantvirsingh4282]

sorry this is off topic but i tired out 3 blocks and it really does works. something underrated about them is that since ur only playing 3 games a day it forces u to make those games high quality or else u just waste ur day. So i don't play those games while talking to someone on discord or music.

[@crispyquesadilla]

I 100% agree that SoloQ is better for learning, but for me the entire purpose of getting better at League is so that I don't disappoint my duo partner in duoQ!

[@louiselemmon5029]

Maybe you need a duo queue contract, just like how yall encourage a solo queue contract

[@monarch489]

Have been playing jungle adc duo for my start of season (haven't played league seriously since around season 11/12, so mostly as a de-rusting process on new accounts) and a lot of these problems you outlined to do with communication, sacrificing growth for short term gains, changes in decision making solely because a duo is in the game instead of through objective analysis, and clashes of ideas in regards to how a game should be played out have been present throughout our entire climb. Sure, if you look at in-game metrics our climb has been "successful" with a 70% win rate over 80 games played so far, yet when excluding de-rusting I would be hard pressed to point out an area of the game that either of us actually improved in - aside from him being able to manage the mental turmoil of watching a bard shoving a crashed wave solo that ends up being frozen outside of the enemy tower followed by the bard typing "sorry" in chat as they recall to roam mid. And as you guys pointed out, even if we take this all the way to master tier that's really all there is too it - we end up with a rank, unable to play with each other, and not a lot of personal learning to show for it. Very much for fun and not really for improving as players.

[@theclimbto1]

A shared project in school? Would not the proper analogy be taking a buddy with you to play some pick up basketball? We're talking 5v5. We're talking Team Games. We're talking things that have, at the highest level, Structure and Organization but that can be broken down and played by 10 people who have never met. And when I take a Duo to the Courts, it tends to be some one I've played with before, some one I've built Chemistry with. And Chemistry in Sports is a bit different from 'We like each other'... it's deeper than that. It's 'We see the same thing'. I know what you are going to do, because I see what you are responding to... and I see it the way you see it, to know how you will respond. That's why I don't have to look to make the pass, I know where you will be... because I saw the mistake and know how you are attacking it to know where the ball should now be for you to finish. That is 'Chemistry' in Sports... a shared view and understanding, in real time. Have you ever had that Support that just never goes in when you think there is an opening? He isn't seeing what you are seeing, the way you are seeing it. You ever have that ADC that presses up and dies? He isn't seeing what you are seeing, the way you are seeing it. And it doesn't matter which of you is right or wrong... as long as you don't share the vision, you're failing EVERY PLAY. Because no matter what 'Right' is, if you aren't both working together, you'll die to the Duo working together... every time. Now you Mitigate this with clear, consistent Shot Calling... and then the belief your Call will be Followed. If it's not, there's an issue... and we need to figure out what it is, quick. Did they disagree with the Call? Don't care... they have a very short window then to Call Off, and if they don't they need to be doing 100% what they can to support the Play. Because if they just let you go, you die and they are disadvantaged. I hear a Solo Survivor live and say "You guys made the wrong call!". And? So what. What are you going to do now, beat them 1v5? You're USELESS right now. Maybe all 5 would have died by a Bad Call, but maybe you Outplay and it happens for you... but if you don't all go, the play is already dead, and you 'surviving' does nothing. In other words, sure... it MIGHT fail... but you're making it fail, you're not allowing an opportunity to succeed. You're the Bad Team Player, you're the one In The Wrong... and being "Right" doesn't fix that in this moment. If you think it's bad calls... then you make the calls, and make them better. But not following the calls only screws your team, all for you to Solo Survive and cry about how you are 'right'. And that's a major problem with E-Sports, especially with people who haven't played Sports... they'd rather Lose and be Right, than Win. After all, we're learning how to be good at these games. Yes, Self-Improvement is a large part of that. But I don't care how 'Good' you think you are, if you Win 1 Game and Lose 9... that's 10%, and that sucks, and that reflects ON YOU. The ONLY CONSTANT in those 10 Games, was YOU. So I don't care how 'Right' you were in those 10 Games... you fundamentally failed to understand how to destroy their Nexus. Which is... well... the point of the game. We build a whole group of people who can 'play by themselves'... doesn't really matter, if you can't 'play as a Team'. There are TONS of guys who are amazing ballers not in the NBA... because they never learned the important things. Super skilled, can 1v1 you all day... can't play in Structure. They only know how to 'beat their guy'... they don't know how to 'Win'.

[@TheTimtam112]

I wanted yo get your thoughts on the "improvement cycle" for pro players, your discussion about the botlane issues in DW brought my question into mind. In my mind, a huge issue that professional teams have created themselves is high player turnover. Someone in the team, player or management, spots an issue in the team. The biggest narrative I saw is "international performance". The team is smashing their region, but struggling in worlds/MSI. To fix this, a lot of team managers decides to replace someone instead of working to improve their play, what are your thoughts on this? Is this just a shallow view of the inner workings of a team? Do we just not see the investments teams make into their players? Or does it just not happen?

[@Bobtheleprichaun]

I think a lot of players will be plenty happy to hear that duoing bot is great despite not being able to do it in Masters+. I don't think masters players are worried about duo q at all, and if a duo can make it that far then that's absolutely mission accomplished.

[@friendsofdardosh]

My duo and I queue jungle + supp or mid +supp and we don't have any of the issues discussed here. It creates a pretty cool dynamic. I'm new (2yrs), he's 10+ years in, supp role allowed me to learn the game and now I'm a confident contributor down there. Thoughts from everyone?

[@ismael9968]

I played exclusively jungle+supp or supp+adc when autofilled (being the jungler in 1st scenario, supp in the 2nd scenario) from unranked to masters over a period of 6 years with on and off play. This is with the same duo that I also previously played wow arena with, so we already had prior experience in playing competitive games together. I personally felt like the jungle+supp duo combination is quite a nice one to have. We however didn't steer eachother much at all during our games, and effectively just played our separate games whilst occasionally chiming in on how the other person was doing ingame and what a bit of the plan/gamestate was. The downside of duoing most definitely is that you do grown accustomed to a certain playstyle/champ pool/consistency of your duo, which if you are planning to also play soloque is going to mess up your expectations a lot. I can for a fact say that both our gameplay is- and was a lot worse when playing solo as compared to duo. So in my opinion it all comes down to what you want to get out of it, for us it was perfectly fine to just only play as a duo and neither of us is interested in actual soloque. But if you might be- or are interested in having a true soloque experience than it might be worth it to make a separate account for soloque and play duoqueue on your current account for example.

[@Ranked_Journey]

You guys familiar with the KZbin channel 3 Minute League of Legends.

[@j_fbi7610]

Question guys. I hear everyone talk about “lol states” all the time, but I haven’t heard a podcast episode that gives a definition yet. What are “lol states”?

[@Ranked_Journey]

As a top lane main what I want from my jungler is to be strong side. I also want to play for void grubs as I intend to win lane, have prio/tempo on the enemy top.

[@csashta]

Duo-ing as a botlane is either great or awful. I am the stereotype of the girlfriend whose boyfriend has encouraged her to play league together. He had gone back to the game and had previous knowledge, and I had none (I am a MMO and RPG player, MOBA was a new world), so I was relying on him to teach me the game (the tutorial is... very basic). I started as an ADC randomly and quickly became a support (stereotype, right). He was playing jungle for some time and months later he decided to play ADC to help me more closely. I think it was a mistake, for me. He was giving me a lot of advice, which was good at first but rapidly became too present, and packed with some frustration, asking me to dare more, do this, do that, when I was trying to concentrate on 1-2 aspects of the game to try to learn step by step (as advised in the videos I was watching). I was just overwhelmed by information I could not process, and I guess that, to ease the load, I took a habit to anticipated his remarks, to listen to him without thinking for myself, etc. I played with other ADCs when he did not want to (he hated the role at first), and I was not the same player, I was trying to understand my ADC's playstyle and daring more, and also moving more on the map, not fearing to be "scolded". But as the time passed, he began to play exclusively ADC (taking a liking), I tried to play many types of supports, but I was not improving at all or very barely. That is why I recently switched to midlane (after 1+ year as a support), and also because I have heard several times that you cannot learn the game as a support. And it feels good. I struggle way less than I thought I would. I learn step by step, playing only Orianna, which I love (no other champ has given me the same feelings in midlane). It feels good to make my own decisions and, even if I am a bit too insecure right now, I dare more, especially when I understand that the other midlaner is not that good (my 1st supposition is that they are all better than me). Of course, I am not ganking other lanes for the moment, I focus on the micro aspects, and only go for objectives when I can, or squirmishes that are not too far, etc. Anyway, I played support yesterday (it has been maybe 3 weeks) with my boyfriend as ADC, and it made me actually realize the impact on my mental. I was useless, I did not know what to do because I felt caged, hands and feet tied. I know it is not him, it is me who has developed those bad habits, and, because of it, I don't think I can go back playing support with him as ADC in the short/mid-term, maybe even at all...

[@paragonviolet1719]

Duo for me is just a 4fun thing. I have around 30% win rate with my best friend in our Smurfs gold-plat. However, anytime we play alone we reach a diamond or at least a high emerald. It is impossible for us to take the game seriously when duo

[@benhughes5308]

As far as fundamentals, it really just means the things that aren't really champion specific. As for champion, item, gold values etc. These things could be referred to as the foundations. Learn the foundations, then champ mastery, then fundamentals.

[@Ranked_Journey]

I would have the whole League of Legends vote on weather or not to remove duoque from soloque. Like everyone who plays a match during a certain month gets to vote on it, and it was communicated beforehand, in a clear and understandable manner, and it was in the patch notes, etc. I feel like if they did this they might be able to remove duoque from soloque.

[@wendellflowersmusic]

Out of curiosity, would Nathan and Curtis be interested in music for the podcast? No catch, just genuinely curious. I have music that I think may fit the styling of the podcast; short intro, short outtro. That aside, I dislike duo queue in any competitive games unless we are committed to the duo Every game.

[@JamesBaleLA]

I duo'd a bit with my friend Charlie towards the end of the split last year. Before we duo'd i told him i wanted to talk about expectations and explicity talk about how we handle adversity that would invariably show up. I asked that if we disagreed on a play that we would not discuss it in game and only focus on figuring out what the next best play would be until the game finished and then after we could vod review if there was something to discuss. I asked him that we not flame the other 3 people on our team and try to do our best to focus on our gameplay while playing around the changing game states. This conversation seemed to help a lot. we never flamed each other and ended up having around an 80% winrate playing together until the point where he reached diamond and I couldn't duo with him anymore (was plat 1 but hit emerald soon after by myself and then took a break from league). I think it's possible to duo and have success with improving and learning but you really have to have those up-front conversations to make sure you're on the same page and both fully bought into the process of improvement over just focusing on winning games.

[@JamesBaleLA]

Also we only duo'd for around a month or so. We both hit our ranked goal and took a break for the holidays (I also bought a house and had a lot of real-life responsibilities come up at that time)

[@kouadio4231]

+ to me people should go in ARAM bootcamp to learn good mechanics, learn how all champs actually work, and learn how to play in 2v2/3/4 situations. Or 1v2 or 3v4. Etc. ARAM (at quite a good level) is so much underated. As Nathan says, it is not all about macro !

[@ElReyDeNoche]

If I'm honest, five man league is kinda peak League. But I realized that playing mostly norms with friends and clash or flex queue honestly just makes me annoyed in a lot of solo games. The coordination is worse, the ego plays higher, and helping someone can just ruin your whole game because they will never return the favor. So if you prefer duo you might as well primarily play flex in my opinion. Solo is a very different game. Edit 1: Also, that duo influence is very real. Every now and then I'm playing a game where I can't for the life of me understand why the jungler is playing around a specific lane and when I chekc later they are premade and it ruined the game for us. Edit 2: In regard to the fundamentals concept. League is a game that has enough variance that fundamentals applies to multiple categories. So there are the fundamentals of each champions and the fundamentals of the lane and fundamentals of the map. In essence there are three categories of knowledge which are the building blocks of learning the game.

[@dreamdate4833]

I watch/listen your channel every Monday cause if find it very educational. But one of the things you guys always say is "dont worry about LP and just play the game and have fun". This is ez to say because when you already on top and no worries about coming down to ELO hell. Just recently I decided to take a break from playing rank after losing 50LP in 1 match. I am -7 losses to my wins so really dont understand why such an LP loss vs wins are 21-24LP. I will still tune cause i like hearing all of aspects of the game.

[@benjaminghazi787]

The answer is fairly obvious. If you’re hyper fixated on LP gains/losses it’s going to affect your mental and your gameplay as it has here. You’ll feel that you really need to win this one to end that L streak, you’ll go on tilt, etc. That’s why they say it’s better to play in blocks. Like regardless of what happens I’ll play 3 games today, or however you want to slice it. If you’re focused on LP instead of your independent gameplay/improving you won’t play the same.

[@808toy808]

From a soloq adc point of view: Navigating through the for fun/autofill supports in ranked can be annoying. Games with a friend as support we have more communication but the amount that we have to dominate the lane is way more than what I would have to do with a random support. If there were comms in the game I wonder if riot would still make duos go against stronger opponents. I prefer to play solo unless for fun in a 5 stack. I think the only reason the true solo experience is even brought up is due to there being no coms in league games.

[@benhughes5308]

I actually straight up forget duo even exists. Playing the game for the last 6 months without porofessor to tell me about duos, I don't even consider their existence. I just play the game solo and assume everyone else is as well.

[@glenndiddy]

I played against duo Q smurfs from masters in emerald today. That's probably the most sad thing I've ever seen. Having to duo Q in low elo to feel better

[@craigferge4702]

As a jungle main I pushed hard to reach emerald so I had an excuse not to duo with my gold ADC friend. The burden of having to carry every game is just too much

[@histoomuch]

I think this game should be played with 5 party members.

[@xazarl3381]

I played duo it is good it makes you less angry but it changes how you play. Your friend is getting 2-3 man camped you feel like you should help but then you int when if it was soloq you would snowball top and keep pushing that lead.

[@Jaymoranofarms]

I know you guys view LoL like chess but I’ve always viewed league like Basketball. It’s a team game and you can’t help it when you’re on a team and 3-4 players just suck right. The 1-2 good players usually carry the team to the win. From my experience with a silver 4 friend I’ve intentionally made a duo account and only play with him on it this season. I have seen him drastically improve in decision making and macro knowledge and he’s hit Gold for the first time setting at gold 2. I duo as adc he plays jg. I’m personally an emerald player and while I’m not the best or anything I have knowledge that he didnt and can communicate things effectively, while not flaming. All teamwork comes down to how you communicate and most LoL players suck at communicating lol

[@butterflyfx57]

As a botlaner who was ruined by duo queue, don't do it. I'd actually say it's *worse* for the journey to do this botlane. You develop unrealistic expectations of your support's behavior especially if you were running a specific synergy, especially in the ADC role where you have to take cues off of your support. Please interview an ADC main in an episode. I guarantee they'll tell you the same thing. Or if you aren't going to, please don't talk about botlane.

[@XionTheSylveon]

I'm someone who originally had a few pre-conceived notions about what League of Legends 'should be like' and 'how the game was meant to be played'. 5 stack of people all on the same page and having voice comms and all that stuff. And for maybe a few years, I was consistently duo queue'd with my partner when I decided that the people I know just aren't a great 5-stack to play with. During that time, I was a lot worse at the game both in an understanding sense and a macro sense. I improved by virtue of playing a lot of games and getting some help but it wasn't a very efficient process. This process was from like Season 8 all the way up until Season 11 - 12. The roles I duo queue'd with were either me on ADC and my partner on Support. Or I moved to mid/top and they remained on support. As Season 13 came around, I was a much better player both in game understanding, ability for micro, and mentality. The last one was the most important compared to my duo partner and some of the others I took the chance on playing with. Differences in game view, the venting issue (this one was REALLY big), and how bad things got and felt when they went poorly in a string of games just made me no longer want to play League with anyone. Duo queue also really hurt my relationship with the game when the experiences became less and less fun on even the wins and truly miserable on some losses. My entire day could be ruined in a single afternoon game all because of the passive aggressive comments and the venting and even being judged for mistakes that were in my mind a direct result of either our shared mistakes, my own mistakes that he'd occasionally be upset about, or his own mistakes that rarely dawned on him. Not to mention the way I wanted to play and approach the game didn't align with the way he did. I walked it back a bit on just outright not playing with anyone but I refuse to do any kind of duo queue with him anymore because it'd stress me out and leave me with miserable strings of days. This problem extends beyond League but League was where I first watched it really manifest. Nowadays, I just do mid/top solo grind but I'm sure I'd actually be a mid main and ADC secondary if duo queue experiences didn't completely harm my relationship with the bot lane. And all of this took place in NORMALS. Imagine how much worse it could have been if these pitfalls came about in my ranked journey! In retrospect, solo playing would have worked out a lot better for me given my background of playing a variety of fighting games which are very personal endeavors and a majority of your improvement comes from playing on your own.

[@Kizinky]

i use a duo firend to share the pain of ranked not necessarily the success

[@dumpsterplayer2700]

i would say fundamentals are the basic rules of the game and the actions you can take, the most important part of fundamentals are these are facts that cannot be derived from other facts. E.g, there is no way to derive what chogath Q is, you just need to know, how to dodge a chogath Q is not a fundamental, because you need to know many other things first.

[@celloj3703]

I really hate to say it but I feel like every time I duo with my partner I’m just being held back. Sure it’s fun and all but most of the time it feels like I’ve subjected myself to have a teammate who 90% of the time plays like the average gold mid laner (I’m a jungle main). She doesn’t seem to have much champion mastery on Malzahar and Lux (her most played champions) and Malzahar at least doesn’t feel particularly impactful

[@DISCONSOLATION]

i literally cant play this game alone after my friend is gone!! its so... ..zzz

[@Pyrrha_Nikos]

This debate could be so easily solved by Riot making Solo queue truly solo and moving duo to Flex queue. You have a queue to play alone and only alone, you have a queue to play with premades and only with premades. The current system is just half assed and achieves nothing for either side

[@SpinninWaffle]

I find its really hard to turn down a duo queue partner ESPECIALLY if they "don't care about the game" so they wouldn't understand the process and learning process of the game.

[@tonypalumbo5170]

Every time there is a duo on my team, they will both absolutely run it down for the entire game almost without fail and ruin the whole experience for everyone else I think duo queue should be removed from the game, period. If you want to play with your friend, play flex or normals

[@kouadio4231]

One pb in league imo it is that lot of people are such... pussy. I mean, they don't poke, they run instead of figjt, they don't come to take absolute free kills... Just because they are afraid of IDK what.. How many time I know we win the fight if they fully commit in but instead they just... go back, hesistate, etc. Typical exemple : you have a lane bully and don't bully your opponent. Or a jungler with strong early gank, but you do... nothing. Afk farm till min 15. I hate that lol 🙂 Great video btw ;) ! That's so frustrated, that is the only thing which can make me tilt haha. To me, afk farm is like don't play the game.

[@ddv1647]

Lets Gooo

[@Azzzoth]

Boohoo u guys should stream duo

[@firstnamelastname754]

Hello broken by concept, I'd like to create a fictional scenario and would love to hear how challengers approach it, this is by no means a hardstuck rant or anything like that, I'm actually a returning player and is curious about this scenario You're Challenger Mid - you are smurfing in silver/gold mmr - you have 4 low to mid silver players - enemies are 3 high silvers and 2 mid golds - you are playing an AP champ with no reliable source of dmg (Sylas, Ahri) - the rest of your team is playing mid game spike champs - enemies are playing mostly AD scaling champs and a heavy AP scaling jungler - your bot lane goes 0/5 by 6 minutes, your top laner goes even, and you are ahead 3/0 From this point onwards is there anyway to carry this game as a challenger smurf? I'd really appreciate any advice given this scenario and I'll emphasise again that this is by no means a "got stomped in ranked and now yapping and coping" type of comment, I'd just be curious to see how true challengers would approach this

[@inslava]

I think you guys are biased and unwilling to see good sides in duoq - or even ok sides. For some people duoq is more enjoyable way to play league, while taking responsibility for their plays even if someone else called them. I totally refused what my duo propose before and had my duos refuse my calls. I wanna outline few points: 1) review should be short, few points taken from particular game 2) duoq calling things is harmful because you not gonna learn from this game 3) you still might lose because other aspects, like your laning or teamfighting. Just take learnings from 3), what's problem?! What you really talk about in 2) is "giving up responsibility", but duoq does not have to come with it. You totally can accept and learn from your mistakes, even if called by random or duoq. Core values of this podcast if applied correctly can still lead to learning from duoq games

[@Vortex_Tornado]

Fundamentals is a bad word to use for teaching in my opinion because the way it is used often feels demeaning. "You need to improve your fundamentals" doesn't help by itself (both in league and in other environments) but using the word fundamental implies it should be easy or you should already know it. I come from rocket league and "learn fundamentals" is common advice which has some benefit in discouraging new players from hyperfixating on flashy mechanics (similar to players in LoL playing unnecessarily difficult champions). While pointing players towards the right skills is helpful, 'fundamentals' like hitting the ball hard and rotating positions with your team have a lot of nuances and requires hundreds of hours to get comfortable with. If something is 'fundamental' but most players aren't great with after 100 hours in the game, then maybe it's more of an intermediate / advanced skill than fundamental.

[@jacobcannon8876]

I main botlane and I make it a rule to never duo queue on my main account, I just don’t mesh well with my support friends’ playstyles. Honestly, when I have done duo on bot, it doesn’t feel as strong as it theoretically should be. For one, you miss out on huge benefits of duoing if your champs don’t mesh well together, and I am a Miss Fortune one trick in soloq with a support friend who doesn’t play any engage champions. I think being a duo on bot only makes sense if your champ pool really aligns, and if both players main the champions that form a “broken combo” like twitch-Lulu, Zeri-Yuumi, Lucian-millio/nami. Trading off having a duo for the increase in enemy MMR hardly feels worth it with a MF-Zilean lane lol

[@cazidesh8617]

Ezpz

[@jacobsolliday8017]

I think duo should be completely removed. If not completely removed, atleast maybe be removed once you get into plat.

[@CosmicRadiationMusic]

I feel like you have a very linear take on communication within a duo. You don't need to min-max what you say to your duo, I say do the complete opposite. Obviously there's a hierarchy of information but why not tell my teammate my thoughts on the state of the match? Why not express to my teammate how strong a certain champ is? Why not discuss as many parts of the game as possible while also giving important information? I think you should care less about the very specific solo queue journey and care a bit more about the League of Legends journey and all the aspects outside of solo play specifically. It's a team game at the end of the day.

[@xGusth]

idk how league is so relevant and still alive without a voice chat if we had voice chat we could have only one ranked queue and people would be able to play with how many they wanted in a group and it wouldn't matter, people would learn to play from people who play this since 2012/ 2013. A team of bad players doing a bad play together can make it work.

[@thekeebman]

1.) You do realize that Riot added voice chat functionality a few years back… 2.) Your quote, saying: “A of bad players ‘doing’ a bad play could make it work.” Should be considered a candidate for quote of the year. Incredible.

[@xGusth]

@@thekeebman I know, but not in the way that Shooters did it, when you're in game it should be enabled by default with the option to mute trolls and etc. but Riot did it the other way around, everyone chooses to disable it and when you enter the channel it's usually you alone. I do believe that in lower elos coordinated plays even if they are not the correct answer should work 'cause the game knowledge is the same in both teams making the gold difference less unbalanced and carrying games alone wouldn't be that valuable anymore, in my head a team game should never be focused on players trying to carry the game all by themselves, it should work as... well... a team game!? nowadays it's all about this idea that "my teammates sucks so I must carry" and everyone trying to do everything at the same time while centralizing all the resources resulting in a bad quality of gameplay and if one teammate had a bad start the rest of the team leaves absolutely no way for said player to comeback and that's insane.

[@tr13ky13]

League does not have voice chat for randoms only for premade lol

[@moresah]

Everyone would mute each other or would argue all game after every mistake. That's the harsh reality of the game so it will only make game even worse.

[@moresah]

And no, if everyone in your bronze games agrees to run it down mid you won't win the game. You need someone with challenger game knowledge to shotcall in voice chat. Otherwise it will lead to conflicts and arguments every time which actualy ruin the game quality. I am sure that vast majority of bronze players don't want their bronze teammates to tell them what to do. You must live in fairytale if you think it would be nice to implement voice in league. In shooters it's easier to communicate and make calls, and even in csgo voice chat was useless 90% of the time when I played.

[@pedroantonio5797]

You guys should stop using Ai for thumbnails, It looks really bad