Mechanical vs Wireless: What You’re Not Being Told

[@chonclark]

Bruh thanks for making this literally in the market

[@mohsenmohamed6835]

The marvel of bicycles is rooted in their simplicity. A perfect synergy of engineering, physics and sustainability; powered by the workhorse of your legs. What gives bicycles its charm is its accessibility and ease of maintenance. A bicycle can be used indefinitely, if taken care of, in any part of the world. In my opinion, wireless takes away that charm from bicycles and undermines, in my opinion, the single best invention created by mankind.

[@davidscott6164]

Down tube shifters are simpler and more reliable than brifters... heck that argument can be taken all the way to fixed gearing, and non-pneumatic tires! It's a balance of simplicity, vs convenience and different people have different properties. I own an AXS gravel bike and a single speed commuter (but with regular tires😅) and greatly enjoy each, for different situations

[@mohsenmohamed6835]

@ I completely agree with you! I have down tube shifters on my 70s Pugh, Claris on my Trek Domane, I’ve yet to try wireless, so my opinion is very biased. I’m sure wireless feels amazing and is becoming very convenient and easy to use, but I’d hate it to be the standard because soon enough the bike industry will push towards that and mechanical will become obsolete; similar to rim brakes. Both options should be widely available, and since mechanical has lived for so long, I’d hate to see it die 🥹

[@mgittler]

@@mohsenmohamed6835 I agree. I'm looking to buy a new made-to-order bike and am getting steered toward electronic shifting & disc brakes. I'm not even convinced I need index shifting much less electronic shifting. And I want nothing to do with disc brakes, which seem much too complicated for me to deal with if something goes wrong. We're not all racers who have access to a sag wagon & an on-call mechanic.

[@sertaoexpedicoes]

Tottally agree.

[@byronspencer8101]

Agreed

[@madyogi6164]

4:15 No. If the cable doesn't fit above or beneath the bottom bracket, it means only one thing - f**d up frame design.

[@SpMeKP]

Preach.

[@andorsn]

In metal frames, there is usually no extra space around the BB in the bottom bracket shell. The frames are made from tubes, and the BB shell tube’s internal diameter matches the external diameter of the BB. Techniques like 3D printing allow more complex shapes and thus adding space to the shell. Another example is the Allez Sprint, where the BB shell is formed into the downtube.

[@ybh9776]

EXACTLY!!!!!

[@DelTacoBueno]

Nah, less cables will always be less of a headache even with plenty of bb space. Definitely a con of mechanical.

[@deviant324]

@@andorsn I had this when designing my frame at Waltly, specifically for the dropperpost cable that was supposed to be routed internally. I was told it's doable to route it over the BB but they recommended two ports to go external around it, I instead decided I'll risk it if I have to later on but avoid the issue with a wireless dropper for starters since my bike is all AXS anyway. My LBS told me routing the cable around the BB internally on a frame that's not built for it (so 3D printed or carbon presumably) is doable but sucks and might not work perfectly because the cables don't like what you're doing to them pretty much

[@thomasb.4219]

external cable routing + mechanical = smooth shifting 😉

[@robbo3132]

and easy home maintenence

[@anotheryoutuber_]

zip ties make a cheap conversion.

[@junkandcrapamen]

How long til we need a monthly subscription to shift?

[@madyogi6164]

👋

[@grantbeerling4396]

Cynical, but can they resist the temptation? I.e. Logic is trying to introduce a subscription mouse!

[@stephensaines7100]

LOL!

[@jayobannon5359]

@@grantbeerling4396 or touchpad

[@thezaneo]

Pay per shift

[@Mr2fiveone]

Mechanical GRX and Shimano 105 is my go to. While I enjoy seeing and admiring all the new stuff, Meh. Bike components seem to be just like Apple products, an upgrade every 10 minutes. I'm just happy I can still pedal at 56 years old.

[@jayobannon5359]

I’m in my 70’s and back during covid i wanted a new ride. My silly canyon with Di2 hated the cold wet weather, was hard to work on because of proprietary crap. So I went and got a custom built frame, fitted out with no proprietary garbage a 105 mechanical groupset with praxis crankset. Absolutely perfect.

[@stephensaines7100]

@@jayobannon5359 Hey Jay! I'm five years your senior, we should do some miles together. I ride a classic Reynolds 531 frame from the Seventies, original builder unknown, renovated by Argos Racing in the UK late Seventies, equipped for 'racing' in those days. I triplized the front derailleur, and *reduced* my rear from 7 to 6 for the shorter axle. I had a tendency to bend them when I was a more aggressive cyclist. The 5mm less helped a lot. After all these years, and the impossibility of getting quality freewheels, I'm finally going freehub. I'll be keeping my downtube shifters, which limits my choice to an 8 cog cassette, and keep my Stronglight 99 triples on the front. With a 28 tooth smallest on front, and a 34 on the the rear (I could go even lower, but resent long cages and chain slop) I can go as low as I'll ever need. I've also had the chainstays dimpled to allow 32c tires (it's a very narrow frame). And at 75, I'm still doing up to 100km in day treks, weather, trail and mindset willing. Stay young! Hopefully we'll cross paths sometime.

[@javiersmith2216]

Electronic derailleurs are cheaper to manufacture since they have fewer parts. Ironically e derailleurs gave companies more a lot pricing power/ ripoff their consumers.

[@bradsanders6954]

@@jayobannon5359 Silly Canyon, what does that mean? I have 2 Canyons they dont seem silly, they work great. 15,000 miles on the Di2 on my Canyon, rain or shine it is unstoppable. There's nothing to work on. Proprietary crap? What does that mean? I do basic maintenance, I ride the bike. It fit me right outta the box.

[@jayobannon5359]

@ how nice for you. It was a silly decision for me

[@pockets.the.coyote]

I'm not sticking to mech because I have charge anxiety. Batteries feel a lot like a planned obsolescence, I'd much rather see a dynamo hub power a small capacitor if they must be electric.

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

Love the dynamo concepts. Or what about something like the kinetic lead charged wrist watches where the movement creates the energy that be great

[@pockets.the.coyote]

@EverythingsBeenDone I don't know that it would produce enough power for a shift. A hilarious side effect of a dynamo and capacitor would be needing to spin the wheel before you can shift after initial set up or if it's been sitting for a while. While capacitors theoretically won't loose their energy over time, usually they have a way to drain so they will become safe to handle.

[@pockets.the.coyote]

@EverythingsBeenDone the industry has tried hydraulic and pneumatic, I think chemical and biological are probably off the table, what other methods of energy transference have we not applied?

[@Colleenann61]

I’ve been pondering changing from mechanical SRAM Apex to electronic for awhile (my shifters are wearing out, plus I did the Ratio Tech 12 speed modification, and it’s never been quite as good at shifting). I thought it would be more expensive too. Thanks for doing this video. Now I’m more inclined to make the switch.

[@Doc_Raphy]

Same sentiments! I mean, electronic shifting has its benefits, but the batteries and charging holds it back in terms of long-term reliability. Shimano can easily do it given how the current Di2 system is designed and they already made a dynamo hub for Japanese commuter bikes. On the SRAM side of things, they can experiment with solar charging similar to how solar-powered calculators work.

[@crunchysteve]

I'm tech nerd in my "secret lab tm" but a grumpy luddite on the bike. My choice of value for money and performance over that last decade has been microshift. Their stuff is amazingly rugged, lightweight and so ISO, I've never had a failed change mixing microshift parts with shimano parts. My main ride is my commuter/tourer/bikepacker/gravel "mongrel." Microshift from hoods to derailleur. (1x9, 11 to 46) My bakfiets stykle cargo bike is a frankenstein of Zeitbike frameset (designed for a 7 speed hub) running a 1x9 derailleur mullet hack identical to the "mongrel" - the shimano mountain bike parts from hard rubbish just would never settle with the bits I had to use to fit a deraileur. The microshift deraileur runs like a swiss watch! The other source of value for no money down parts - if you live in a city that has kerbside hard rubbish collection, free bikes abound! Usually taiwanese water pipe frames but often with really reliable, hardly used, certainly never thrashed, parts. You have to be choosy, though 😀

[@peerebeer4507]

what microshift components are you using? im looking to upgrade an old commuter bike with a drop bar group. Any hydraulic brake options?

[@OutThere42]

@@peerebeer4507 they don’t make brakes yet but pair with trp hy/rd or other hybrid cable to hydraulic at the caliper for near-hydraulic braking results.

[@crunchysteve]

@ I'm using a couple of 7 or 8 year old 9 speed microshift rear mechs (that still change like new!) and various scrounged cranksets. No hydro disk option that I know of. I currntly run TRP Hy-Rd brakes - cable pulled but hydraulic at the caliper. Has the modulation of hydro but a wider compatibility. I managed to score a Giant stem mounted master cylinder but have to finish making the adapter plate to securely mount it to the bars just over the stem (I have a suspension stem, so an alt mount is required) master cylinder systems are rare as hens teeth but probably the best way to go for cable pulled levers (eg road group) when hydro brakes are wanted. I wouldn't follow my advice, though, unless you're an experienced bike hacker like me. I'm pretty good at solving engineering problems of making stuff fit when it shouldn't fit, but even when things go well, the process of getting there can cause cuss words 😂

[@crunchysteve]

R9, just remembered the microshift group my levers and derailleur are from. Not made anymore, but I've seen their 10 speed. Very sweet gear. The 11 speed is probably even better.

[@TESTA-CC]

I can also vouch for Microshift, never ever had any issues running there Groupsets. Only problem now is because they are reliable and good quality more people have started buying there products. prices on the sword groupset and micro shift in general is quite expensive now. 1. Shimano, 2. SRAM 3. Campagnolo 4. Trp 5. Microshift.

[@DavidParker]

I came back to cycling after years from mountain biking with twist grips in the late 90’s and now have a few years old mechanical 105 groupset and I actually love how seamless the shifting is and I love the feeling of pushing the levers, it’s kinda part of what I love about riding my bike. I’m sure the electronic buttons are cool too but I don’t feel any need to ‘upgrade’

[@FoobsTon]

Of course you don't. You didn't feel a need to upgrade from your Nokia brick phone either until you tried a smart phone.

[@vaughanwatson3561]

Working on my own stuff is important. Having some chance to come up with a fix in the wild is important. Being able to run something analog into the ground until the performance bothers me rather than a digital thing that just stops is important. Being able to just shred and not be foiled by batteries is important. Electronic shifting is still a no from me.

[@done3960]

doesn't just stop. dying batteries give tons of warning!

[@vaughanwatson3561]

​@@done3960 the battery isn't the only failure point. See Lachlan Morton on the Tour Divide for a famous example.

[@FoobsTon]

Yeah right. That apply to your smart phone as well. Lol. 😂

[@vaughanwatson3561]

@@FoobsTon I would run a cable operated smartphone with no battery if I could😂

[@SkyhawkSteve]

Don't really care about the new stuff, so my bikes are mechanical. Some indexed, some friction, down tube shifters, bar end shifters, grip shifters. I've got bikes with over 60,000 miles and they are running fine. I understand that the component manufacturers need newer shiny stuff if they are going to get people excited to spend money. Their audience is definitely not people who say "the stuff I've got works fine".

[@libiomartins8798]

I believe that the performance of the electronic group is the best but I don't want to put more batteries in nature

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

I feel this!

[@christopherjamesster]

my thoughts exactly. feel the same about carbon, nasty unrecyclable shit

[@junkandcrapamen]

Or require the materials to be mined by heavily exploited labour.

[@ehiggins7476]

Take a look at your bikes and all the gear you wear! It’s all non recyclable! And nasty to the environment.

[@junkandcrapamen]

@@ehiggins7476 Aluminum is very recyclable. As is steel. WTF are you talking about?

[@Brian-qv1ir]

I'm always worried about water getting in the electronics. I live on Vancouver Island and have seen multiple ebike failures in the winter. Maybe the AXS is more weather sealed, but when I'm out on a gravel road in November, I like the easy repairability of my externally routed steel touring/gravel bike.

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

Great point! I've personally never seen this happen, but I could easily see how it would.

[@richardclark5255]

I live in Vancouver and my new rival axs seems to already be having issues with the rain. My mechanical Apex is unstoppable in terms of shifting and unstoppable in terms of stopping. Always an adventure with mechanical brakes!

[@aaronedgeart]

@@richardclark5255 I'm in Portland and London (six months in each city each year) and both have a lot of rain. My still running 2016 eTap has never failed because of it.

[@vaulthecreator]

Rain.....rain...🤔 I've heard of this.... Seriously though I can see how this can - and does - become an issue, especially in the northern latitudes. On the flipside - here in regional Western Australia it's dust, it gets everywhere....in the cracks....oh, ahem, and the cables of course. Damn stuff acts like a fricking fluid. Nothing like grinding paste 'polishing' your cables where the housings bend 🤬

[@richardclark5255]

@@aaronedgeart I wish it weren’t so, but a few rides in heavy rain has caused my rear derailleur to shift up only after I shift down a gear or two. This is not the best when climbing hills.

[@thomasam97]

BIG Love for AXS ❤: my dad has arthritis in his thumbs so after decades (approaching 70) ordinary mtb shifters are painful to use. We put a GX AXS derailleur on his flatbar touring bike so he can shift from the blibs with his index fingers and it has been flawless. He shifts quite a lot and often leaves the batteries on the bike in the cold shed so they last him "only" a couple hundred miles, but since they are so small he always has a spare one with him anyways. The swap was also very easy, since the NX 12 speed cassette uses the HG freehub. He runs now 11-50 with 36T crank which is very comfortable for him even with lots of luggage. The limited top end, which is definitely a thing with the 11T cog doesn't bother him since he prefers coasting downhill at higher speeds. He rides everyday, year round and AXS made it possible for him to keep riding pain free ❤️ (without going the pedal assist route, since some pedal assist bikes can shift automatically by cadence, but then my mum would have to switch as well and those are much heavier to carry etc.) I am building up my new bike with 1x12 GRX 610 ATM because I really did not want to deal with DOT fluid. Since it is mechanical and the frame is setup for internal routing I hope to get no issues by exiting the cables at the headset throught the top cap and not route them through the thight bends in the stem and handlebar (Dropbars). This setup should also make transit and fit adjustments much easier which are also a pain with integrated cockpits with wireless shifting. I've seen a few nifty stems and bars that appear to be internally routed but actually run the cables in an easily accessible groove underneath them but for now they don't bother me at all. 😊 Thank you very much for your videos and insights, they are highly appreciated around the world 🥰 Take care everyone and keep on giving 🤗

[@lastfm4477]

SRAM could gain a lot converts to AXS - if only they would give up this religion to DOT fluid. Half the folks I ride with are on Shimano only for that reason.

[@joaocastro924]

I will keep the mech 105 because I know it is reliable and will likely work for the next 10 years. I'm not so sure if the derailer will keep operating for 10 years down the line with the electric motors and how will the water proffness hold up after all of that time? I understand the criticism of having to replace the cables on the bike with internally routed cables. However, since most of the outer cables are run internally, there will be very little reason to replace the outer due to rusting. At the most, you will simply need to replace the inner (steel cable), which is easy and quick to do!

[@nerigarcia7116]

I was one that felt electronic shifting wasn't necessary, and it's not, but once I had a bike with it, I was sold. The shifting is just so easy, precise, and smooth. With AXS it's so easy to set up with it being wireless. I used to run Shimano Di2 but have switched all my bikes to SRAM AXS. I still have a couple mechanical groupsets that I keep on my climbers but my daily rides have AXS.

[@LVTN979]

I did the contrary, switched from AXS to Di2, mainly to get rid of the coin cells, and not have to charge every month the battery. I don't get the fuss about wireless. I mounted my bikes myself, sure AXS is a bit faster, but not by much, passing the di2 cable is a breeze compared to the breaking hose, that you still need to route anyway...

[@pcedosalvo]

@@LVTN979 I am pretty sure Shimano made the “shift” to wireless shifters with the latest Di2 shifters and that means coin cell batteries in the shifters

[@LVTN979]

@pcedosalvo for 105 wireless is mandatory. For ultegra and DA is optional, you can wire the shifters, and that will give you 50% more range. 😀

[@Zloab2742]

Have both on different bikes. Axs is cool to have but don’t really miss it much when I don’t have it

[@daniellarson3068]

After I saw the guy struggle with the routing of a simple bike cable, I am more convinced than ever that old bikes with external cables are the way to go. There seems to be quite a few reasons to stick with old bikes.

[@Serewrangler]

I just swapped from a trek emonda with internal routing/carbon fiber to a Lynskey cooper cx with all external cables. No more fuggin carbon headsets cracking/cable housing rubbing through on the part where it threads into the headset. No having to disconnect the entire headset to replace housing lines. Just tired of overly complicated bikes. It looks nice; but I spent $1,000 at the damn shop just to replace everything. Never again hah.

[@JohnC686]

My new Litespeed has external cables. I actually like the way it looks.

[@SteezeShop]

internal routing isn't the issue in itself. In this case, the way the cable was routed around the bottom bracket and the fact DUB bbs have fat spindles is what caused the issue. Also, I think most mechanics would rather deal with what he did than ever have to mess with cables that route through the headset. Headset routed cables on most bikes are the absolute worst. For unique custom stuff, fine.

[@kieron88ward]

I don't get the love for internal cables, sure they look nice but as soon as you ever have to do any maintenance you will be forever cursing the idea. And for what benefit? The aero benefits are close to negligible and yet they are here to stay it seems 😢

[@teamzissou5663]

No more internal routing for me. After three Tarmacs over the past 15 years, I bought a Lynskey R300 frameset, and built it up with an 11 speed Dura Ace/Ultegra group. I also jettisoned the carbon gravel bike in favor of a GR300 with SRAM Apex 1x12. I wanted to like the 11speed mechanical more than the Apex wireless, but, sadly, technology has me by the throat.

[@FredChagnon]

Last year I got a gravel bike with SRAM Force and it blew my mind. Not only is the shifting as smooth as this video describes, but it also never degrades due to stretched cables or kinked cables. The battery isn't a concern. I did a 3-day 1,000km randonneur ride, and the rear derailleur battery did start to complain after about 800kms. So I just swapped the front and rear batteries (because the rear gets way more use) and was able to complete the ride. I'm not very mechanically inclined, but I do have the ability to maintain batteries. So AXS is definitely for me. I'd love to setup wireless on my fat/MTB+ bike that currently has GX Eagle. I'm a little concerned about battery life in sub zero temps though, so this one may have to remain mechanical.

[@mybugmybug]

Just sold my Merida Reacto with SRAM Rival and been riding gravel with L-TWOO mech shifter. i swear there is something to say about the robustness of mechanical and not worrying about batteries or that expense or if a accidentally bump it and break a fitting. im 58 and riding several thousands of miles per year. i no longer care about whats in fashion or what will give me a competitive edge. Those days are gone. I can focus on the ride, the enjoyment, the views and the self motivation to ride as long as i can. 105s are stout bullet proof. and these L-TWOO are giving it a run for the money IMO.

[@robbieobrien2378]

9 for sure!

[@aaronedgeart]

My only bike these days-a newer Crux-is using my original 2016 Sram Red hydro eTap. The derailed battery lasts about 2 months and I always carry a spare. Still works great, a true long-lasting product.

[@gagebollinger996]

9! Would love to learn about the blackheart

[@maximumschwa6993]

I agree with the batteries being gross. Give me the clockwork.

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

What if the shifting could be charged like a perpetual motion watch then we'd never have to charge it just ride it to Shift!?!?!?!

[@MoisheLettvin]

@@EverythingsBeenDonedidn’t Mavic Zap use the motion of the jockey wheels to move the derailleur, way back when?

[@Heimdallar]

Another cinturato M/H combo lover in the wild! AXS is a gamechanger, the shifting is so smooth and at the tail end of a race when my face is closer than ever to the toptube, shifting requires no effort or thinking at all.

[@errolbarnes9729]

I have to agree with Mr2fiveone, on this....I absolutely love outdoor sports, and I can take off for a couple weeks and head out and although the battery lasts a long time, that's may just be the one time you forgot to do a charge and "bam you (s.o.o.l.) luck especially if you have a power port in your vehicle that only runs with the engine started, I want to know I can throw my bike in the truck and go at anytime, anywhere and anyplace....not thinking "dang did I charge that before I left, or hope I have enough juice to see me through this ride...!!!" Although it may be a hair faster I'll take the convenience of mechanical any day.

[@FoobsTon]

I've had Di2 for 12 years. It's been a dream. Change under tension and automatic trim. Hasn't missed a beat.

[@fenderbenderspecial]

Mechanical shifting has been so easy to live with and work on that I feel no need to upgrade. I have friends who have missed races because the brifter battery died morning of, or swap batteries from their dropper to their derailleur, etc. Wireless might be better (faster, smoother, whatever), but I'm totally content with the simpler setups I already have and know how to fix in a pinch.

[@scotthepworth5976]

Sticking with mechanical. Batteries are pretty enviro unfriendly. Great video Amigo!

[@dominicbritt]

And the manufacture of steel gear cables isn't?

[@elrichoyeah]

You can use rechargeable ones 👍

[@READComment1]

@@dominicbrittsteel is recyclable. Rechargeable batteries are much more toxic for the environment

[@DrFlashburn]

Nothing compares to a proper, externally run, well-designed mechanical setup. Buttery smooth for years at a time.

[@bradsanders6954]

Electric shifting, shifts like magic. Its a different thing. front or rear shifting is zero effort. But I like the 9 speed fine on my 1990 MASI also.

[@DrFlashburn]

@bradsanders6954 I don't make any effort in my Shimano 105 mechanical... It never registers in my brain as 'effort' because it takes hardly any.

[@davidgromer3525]

Wife and I have AXS on our bikes: road, gravel, and MTB. All six bikes have shifted flawlessly for years with no adjustments. Garmin head units tell you when you’re down to 30% battery life (about 10 hours left), but I also carry a spare (roughly the size of a matchbox),so there’s zero chance of having a ride affected by a dead battery. We each had an Ultegra shift cable break about ten years ago, but have no more cables now, only hydraulic brake lines.

[@nichandallieestes1849]

One thing that’s helpful for me with the charging is that if you pair your AXS stuff to a Wahoo(and probably some other computers) it will alert you when you have 10% battery left

[@michaelnewman4302]

Full Apex AXS on my Waltly custom ti. It's been flawless, but I went ahead and put the full-mount GX mullet on the back for the gearing. If the features of the SRAM Red XPLR shifters trickle down next year, I'll swap them for the better shape, braking, and bonus buttons; Apex if possible, Rival or Force if necessary.

[@BICIeCOMPUTERconGabriele]

The reviewer amazed by SRAM AXS electronic shifting: "Just one little tap and that's it" Every Shimano mechanical groupset user in the world: "Just one little tap and that's it"

[@Macuhdohnadadoh]

The ease of shifting is nice, but pretty minor. I’ll take an externally routed mechanical. I like mechanical because it seems to last forever. It’s just a spring in the rear mech and a ratchet in the shifter. Both can be degreased and re greased once a year and operate the same as when it was brand new. I’ve got 30,000+ miles on my r8000 group, and while cassettes come and go, the rest is still working flawlessly. And when I have been on rides with people who are having wireless issues, it’s usually a bike that’s 3-5 years old and they are already looking at new group sets. So the question of long term durability is one that I’m not yet convinced on. Time will tell.

[@eccentricvelo]

For me, it isn't so much of the electronic vs mech shifting. I could go either way, though i do like being able to hop on my bike without worrying about whether its derailleurs are charged or not. Personally, it's the hydraulic disc brakes. I do my own maintenance and dithering and travel and I hate having to bleed brakes and deal with all that. I opt for mechanical shifting and Growtac Equal disc brakes so that I can easily work on my own stuff. Plus the vast majority of my bikes have been externally routed, so that does away with the internal routing argument.

[@giancarloespejo2223]

2x9 mechanical is more than good enough for most tbh 😊

[@neil_b-g]

I’ll say the case for electronic shifting is strong..made stronger by the jacket!! ;) But I, like others, have been made into a microSHIFT convert of late…cost effective, no messing and solid. On my latest build, I went to their SWORD range..and it’s not peeeerfect..but it’s mighty close! I threw in Growtac cable brakes and I’m a happy analog chappy!

[@plepgeat]

That bottom-bracket nonsense is why I built my custom Sycip Monstercross bike with external cable routing. And I went with a mechanical 12-speed GRX "Unstoppable" groupset because, frankly, the AXS Eagle on my Tallboy 4 is pretty unremarkable.

[@pphaneuf]

You have to monitor and maintain those batteries... but I've just had the front mech cable fray and slip, so guess I have to monitor and maintain those cables too anyway! 😅

[@Fncontroloptioncommand]

I went from apex mechanical to rival/force axs two years ago. Waaay less shifting fatigue on long multi-day rides. Love it. I’d probably just go apex electronic if I needed to do it over, save a few bucks. Overall the batteries have lasted a long time. I could see needing to replace them after year 3. I’ve replaced the cr2032s in the shifter 2-3 times so far. Less impressed with the life of those.

[@nathanbarlow3758]

@DKlein , I would wish there was some discussion of e-waste and the non-negligible amount of rare earth metals needed for battery production (mostly in the global South).... these choices aren't without ecological consequences which would seem an obvious consideration in 2024. thoughts?

[@Mr-lm2dv]

well said.

[@schnabelnese]

I ride a Shimano ultegra DI2 Groupset and I am not planning on ever riding mechanical again. In addition to the pro arguments you mentioned: 1. the sound when shifting makes you feel even more like riding a space ship - which is awesome 2. my Garmin tells me when battery levels are low-ish. There even is a pop-up alert in Garmin Connect after finishing the ride to remind you to plug in the charger or change those shifter batteries. So no active monitoring of blinking LEDs is required.

[@HagobSaldadianSmeik]

For me electric isn't an option because I don't trust neither shimano nor shram to support these device for a long time. A mechanical groupset is easy to repair and modify, even long after the respective company dropped support. With electric shifting you are much more likely to just end up with e-waste once something breaks. There could even be a situation where they decide to push out an update to their configuration app that drops support for your group set. In that situation your group-set still works, but you might be unable to change any of its settings going forward.

[@azmsp84]

9….simply because I love your videos.

[@NitsujWrenches]

Marty! I worked with him years ago, and giggle every time I see him in one of your videos. 😊

[@spokedonwrenching]

Acknowledging that pricing is often elastic, the $750 tag on Apex AXS colored me skeptical. I see it closer to $1000. The gap has narrowed, but it remains.

[@gregtitus2467]

My AXS Red batteries will last for about 500 mi (on the rear derailleur) before charging. You need a smartphone to update the firmware (but it's free from SRAM), a bit of a learning curve. There's no need to adjust the derailleurs with wireless once they're first set up. Mechanical will require a lot more time to keep shifting precise.

[@WhyTheyRide]

I ran SRAM Rival mechanical on my Surly, was fine, moved to Shimano GRX Di2 when i got my Fairlight, and the difference is night and day shifting wise. The Surly is now fitted with Shimano GRX mechanical. Also, shout out to Thomas for his sick Wizard Works toptube bag!

[@gratstagram]

I'm with Fergus!

[@kawabus]

I'm down with the Digi Blipy Blop. It's smoother and less hand strain with multi shifts and overall less maintenance. 🚴✨✨

[@jwhoward182]

I miss riding Forest Park. Moved a long ways away from it, but these videos bring back great memories

[@zoid88]

One thing I like with AXS is all the 12 speed parts are interchangeable. So you can mix and match as you want. The shifting is hilariously easy too, I don't think I'd go back now. I'd only go mechanical if I wanted a longer distance touring bike maybe, then I'd probably got 2x GRX. Either way modern groupsets are really good, so whatever you pick its going to be a very nice ride.

[@Hezzenberg]

Got a gravel bike with AXS mullet (10-52 in the back with GX). Absolutely love electronic shifting, and that setup is amazing for agressive gravel riding. Also run GX mechanical on my MTB and 105 12s on my road bike. Mechanical works just fine, but I'm always annoyed how much you have to push those levers to actually shift. The feeling of instantaneous snappiness from electronic shifting is addictive, and if cost was no issue, I would run AXS on all my bikes.

[@michaelcafaro4022]

The beauty of the bicycle is the simplicity of it and not needed to be plugged into big brother in order to work. I realize how well axs works but even being a mechanic I’m never riding my fat bike and saying” I wish my Slx derailleur worked better”. In the end I still need a power source to move the bike regardless if it last a month or a year. We like riding bikes for its simplicity and adding batteries to shifting is a no go for my style of riding and what cycling means to me.

[@ewxlt]

Been on 105 mechanical since 2020. Prior to that was on SRAM Force mechanical. My current frame is internal routing so the plan is electronic in the future.

[@samreynolds5694]

Great write up. There may be some hidden costs with electric. Some obvious considerations are 1) derailleur replacement cost, 2) battery cost (especially for a second battery) 3) repairability, 4) possible environmental impacts of the electric gizmos. That said, I am more likely to consider electric on my next rig. 👍

[@teunluijbregts2533]

Riding both next to each other. Given the choice, the one thing to consider for me is: how big are the chances of busting a derailleur? Stuff that breaks should not be expensive to replace. The result: mechanical on cross/gravel bikes, electronic on road. Also chains should not be proprietary so no Sram for me but that’s another story 😊 Oh yeah and the commuter: 1993 Shimano Acera shifters (still the ones that were on the bike new), canti brakes and Aliexpress Cassette plus crankset. KMC chain 😈

[@pedalhead13]

I find myself somewhere in the middle. My Gravelbike runs the wireless Rival XPLR, while the full squish MTB stays on the trusty old mechanical NX Eagle. There are pros and cons to both. Honestly, full internal routing on a full squish bike has never been a problem for the shifting quality on NX for me. I got that thing so perfectly dialled, that I would not change it for anything but another mechanical NX as each individual component dies. Rival XPLR on the other hand...yeah. Ease of shifting, no messing with cable tension, stable quality of performance over a looooong time span....would never go back to mechanical on a drop bar bike.

[@ignore-fv7rc]

just came back from a bike trip in Thailand. The two DNFs? wireless shifters

[@cameroon66]

Cool video. Also, co-hearse is my new favourite word.

[@andrewblakesley4202]

My new build will be a steel 135/100 qr, mechanical disks, externally routed, tubes and tyres, Shimano 1x9 with mudguards. With 2 sets of wheels that will do everything I want to do for a very long time. I don't need or want anything else because at 59 I'm not competing with anyone, I'm just enjoying the ride.

[@jtolech]

I dont mean to sound like a Debbie Downer here. ButI think microchips are detrimental to the human spirit. I think electronic shifting is solving a problem that nobody asked for. I don’t like the feeling of “being pushed” into the future just because it is marginally better. Not to mention the fact that I can have just as much fun, if not more, riding my 30 yo Bianchi Timberwolf than I can any modern bike. Ok, I am off my high horse. Thanks for the video!

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

I like your perspective on this. Thank you for sharing.

[@isnerdy]

I currently have two bikes - both Specialized, one's a hybrid with a Shimano Sora 2x9 / microSHIFT mechanical setup, and the other is a road bike with a Shimano Ultegra Di2 wireless 2x12. Despite the wireless setup being much pricier, I don't really notice much in terms of operational differences between the two while riding. Ease of shifting, smoothness, and speed all seem very similar to me. But it's nice to know that the Shimano batteries are designed to only need recharging once/month, and it does make everything look a lot cleaner

[@rolffuchs2737]

I always take a spare battery with me. On my new mountainbike I have the new Sram AXS and that is a game changer!

[@dobbscycleworks]

9 please and thank you, that build looks great.

[@moynge]

I have an AXS Red 2X group... only one battery fail (coin cell in a shifter) in 4 years. Now I carry a coin cell with me, and I remove the batteries when traveling with the bike (drains the rechargeable batteries). The shifting was spotty for a long time, but one of the many firmware updates fixed that issue and it's been great since. I appreciate the shifting, except for the the noisy/grindy flat-top chain. But that's forced me to level-up my chain hygiene game, so maybe a feature not a bug. I'm on the fence, er wire, about analog vs wireless for the next bike.

[@crashymoto]

Great comprehensive breakdown on these groupos. I’ve always ran mechanical and have been thinking about making the switch on my next bike. I’m totally going for the zapper group now 🤯. Never thought I’d hear myself say that. Thanks 😎👍🏻

[@jswanson859]

I love the smoothness of my wireless shifting. I don't mind my mechanical shifting on my older bike, it's kind of like driving a muscle car with a manual shifter.

[@Josukegaming]

Hell yeah I love Cyclepath! That place is rad! Love seeing local PDX places in your videos. We definitely need to hang onto our ability to run mechanical drivetrains, electronic shifting is so pointless and wasteful. I'd say that suggesting no mechanical drivetrains on internally routed bikes seems too far of a stretch, a HUGE amount of the market is that exactly, and most people don't need to replace their housing very often, which makes it a moot point. Mechanic is the future, I refuse to put unnecessary batteries into my already perfect bike. Also what's Fergus doing in a local PDX bike shop??? I wish I'd run into him!

[@samjenkins9567]

Bro, did not expect to see Fergus, but that was exciting!

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

You and me both!

[@kalanihines]

Same. Bonus FergDog cameo 🎉👌🏽

[@ornotbike]

Fergus on his best behavior

[@ZackBikesVancouver]

Sure the battery may last months but how about all of the electrical components of the derailleur? We live in a world with so much eWaste already and me on my bike contributes nothing to all that waste except maybe when my lights financially need replacing. I just refurbished an early 90s trek 930 and guess what? The derailleur after a little bit of cleaning shifts flawlessly! Will these wireless shifting components still work in 25 years? I seriously doubt it and they will end up in the landfill or worse. Wireless shifting may be the future that SRAM and Shimano want so that they can make more money, but it's not the future... or at least the future I think we should move towards.

[@denverman6161963]

Dude, I bought my Polygon R9X with Rival AXS (and electronic dropper!) based on YOUR video! And while I don't NEED electronic shifting/dropper, I LOVVVVVVVE it now that I have it. Without question, the shifting of that AXS system is superior to any of the Shimano systems I've had in the past. And an amateur tip-because most of us mortals so rarely use their dropper, IT'S battery will run much longer than the shifter battery, so if/when the shifter battery dies mid-ride, just swap them and go "no dropper/full shifter" for the ride home.

[@codymsisson]

Dude, I also bought the R9X and I absolutely love it! I loved it so much, I bought one for my wife! I have purchased (*cough*) 7 Polygon bikes and have been super happy with all of them but I ride the Bend R9X way more then any of the other bikes because it is the "one bike to rule them all" and does everything I want it to do.

[@denverman6161963]

@@codymsisson Dude! (we're kindred spirits now) I've got a total of 8 bikes (down from 9, so I'm making progress and staving -off both therapy and a divorce attorney) now, and while all of them are different brands (not like you I guess) I also am letting the others get dusty as I ride my R9X almost every time I ride now! I have yet to see another one in the wild here in Oz, and I like being the weird old guy on a bike nobody's seen before.

[@stibra101]

LOL, 25 old Shimano 9 speed is light years ahead

[@front_man001]

The issue with the cable housing in this case is not the fact that it is internally routed but the design of your frame. I've built carbon frames that have internal routing and had no issues. Having said that, yes, internally routed can be more problematic than externally routed but usually they don't require you to remove the BB.

[@Slopes_N_Singletrack]

9! I’ve already heard good things about Blackhart bikes. And I’m sticking with mechanical shifting.

[@dperreno]

I have AXS Force. I have a 2x front derailleur, so I have 2 batteries - if the rear battery dies I can swap it with my front battery (and I have done so!) I try to proactively charge them once a month, though they can usually go 2 months easily. My shift lever batteries have yet to be replaced after 2 years, they still indicate "good" in the app. I have mechanical SRAM Force on 2 other bikes, and they work very well also, though I was struggling with the shifts before I realized that I had to lube my shift levers. Then they worked great again!

[@lastfm4477]

Wait! How did your battery die? Everyone in these comments say they get all kinds of warning that the battery is low.

[@dperreno]

@@lastfm4477 Well, if I had looked at the derailleur, I probably would have seen the red light blinking, but I didn't check it. It only died once - since then I don't let them go more than a month without topping them off. And it was super easy to just swap the front and rear battery and I was able to easily finish my ride.

[@MrAlucard1964]

I have AXS love it. I also carry a spare and a battery power level checker . I use it after each ride.

[@newttella1043]

100% of people I know using electronic shifting have had a ride or two or three ruined. Dead battery, dead spare battery, dead coin battery at shifter, disconnected wired on Di2.

[@julianmartin8356]

Battery dependent cycling, how is that a step forward?

[@MisterMcGibblets]

Man, you got a lot of punters for friends then 😂 or are you guys just a bunch of old, forgetful dudes?

[@newttella1043]

@@MisterMcGibblets One was warrantied by Sram and not a battery issue. Other people didn't know Sram shifters have cell batteries that can die pretty quick. Shimano Di2 cable seems to disconnect easily. These folks all know how to ride fast and far on road and dirt. Maybe average Joes who don't train or race much won't have these issues? I don't know.

[@ianforber]

External routed Campag Chorus is the answer, especially the 10 speed version with the slightly more robust chain.

[@steviedickins]

Love the vid- thanks heaps Black heart breakdown please

[@blackheartbikeco]

🖤🖤🖤

[@sadeqbikes]

Great review keep it going 🙌🏻

[@bracket0398]

Imma Mikeckkeckykechk. If you have trouble running cables and housing in an internal frame, you need a better frame. I just put Growtac Equals on my Salsa Cutthroat in a hour, which had grx810 hydrauls previous. Microshift drivetrain switch on my Cutthroat and Timberjack took less than an hour each and was great! Steer yourself away from them two big guys when you can; like some peoples been sayin here, they gettin more like propriatery Apple than anything else these days. Microshift, Race Face, Wolftooth, Spank, and PNW have really been my go-to lately and i love it. And it's still all meckymeck and right to reapir.

[@ravennexusmh]

Using my apex xplr cable levers with a sram gx mech and 11-50 cassette and sram guide calipers for braking. It works so well.

[@briannyob7799]

That's what I did. I have a Sunrace 11-50. I didn't change the brakes.

[@tkwood]

All about electronic mostly Shimano shifting. I use to say mech all the way till I got my first di2 setup then I was hooked! Shimano because I do run a front derailed and love charging only every couple of months vs the SRAM popping batteries. Quite often it’s something I forget and then I am making my bike a 1by switching batteries.

[@SucculentDoorbell]

And here I am still running downtube shifters 😂 But one thing about my made-in-Japan Suntour GPX rear derailleur is that it doesn't budge even half a mm and clicks into each gear extremely precisely. I've never had a single mis-shift and my bike's from the late 80s. Can always convert to brifters.

[@tommanseau6277]

And here I am riding a 25 year old touring bike with non indexed thumb shifters. Yeah, I went backwards, and I l love it. To each there own.

[@beforedawn]

e tap for mtb because I am rarely doing that for more than 5 hours and like the responsiveness. Mech for bikepacking, big days, solo journeys where I have to self support, field repair and may be 30-50 miles from my car.

[@DjDeepfry1]

Mechanical never let me down.

[@jamescourier1545]

I've built a full sus mtb, a fat bike & a gravel bike- all with mechanical shifting & internal routing. All function flawlessly & reliably. No issues whatsoever. 👍

[@jacobb1354]

I just picked up a gravel/winter training bike with grx mechanical. I definitely wanted a 2X, and to get into a new bike for less $. The electronic shifting comes at a premium with other upgrades. Plus I’m not going to be riding this bike as much as my road bike… I think. I don’t want to think about more batteries across multiple bikes either. There’s enough to maintain across my fleet as it is. See you on Leif…

[@GALLAGHERCYPRISS]

Mechanical Rival on a Surly Midnight Special for me as I do nearly all the work on my bike myself. Think the only thing I'd upgrade is to TRP Hy/Rd brakes but with compressionless cables the Spyres are pretty good! Internal routing does look real nice but think it's more hassle than it's worth tbh.

[@buckfiftyplustax]

Keep a quarter with your spare cr2302 battery for the axs shifter. It easily slots in the battery door to remove

[@EverythingsBeenDone]

You are totally right! Terrific suggestion as those little hatches are nearly impossible to open without a coin, and let's be honest who actually rides their bike with coins in their pockets

[@patrikwesterling3238]

I use mechanical for road and gravel bikes and for MTB.both are externally routed I have to add. I would never think of electric for road or gravel. I live in Sweden and there is not as much need to switch gears. If money would allow then the best benifit would be for mtb because it benefits much more from fast gear change.

[@amarramoul4027]

Daaaaaaaaaaamn your videos is soooooo satisfying to watch .....i wish i can have your stickers for my gravl bike 🙏🙏

[@stephanematis]

AXS won't replace any of my working setups, but I will try one before I make up my mind. In the last 5 years, I've most scavenged my ludicrous personal parts bin of Shimano XT/105 and lately only had love for Microshift's Sword that came on cheap and cheerful bike. I like options.

[@adamoweb]

Do you have a review video for cycling glasses especially for short sighted people? 😂 Your pair for the gravel ride 1:28 looks interesting that blocks side winds.

[@chaddalrymple]

mech head here. I have electronic on a bike and enjoy it. But, mechanical on external routing is gold.

[@byronspencer8101]

When I bought a brand new gravel bike I went with a Ritchey Outback. Part of why I chose this bike is because of external cable routing. I honestly think the shifting on my shimano GRX to be excellent. I really find pushing everyone to electronic shifting to be annoying as hell as are internal cable routing. I want a bike I can maintain myself and basically fix anything on a long ride. Anyway my bike is so good I am sure it will last me till I am too old to ride. I will probably buy other bikes because I love em but I am going to avoid electronic shifting out of principle most likely.

[@krollpeter]

I like internal cable routing but only after the steerer tube and around the bottom bracket's shell. That means basically only inside the straight frame parts. This way I can use one uninterrupted cable shell from the level to the shifter while the cables are mostly out of the way.

[@ChrisCapoccia]

Newly set up mechanical works great, but it's more fiddly to keep it set up great and not loose crisp shifts over time. Also electric shifts much faster. Whether it matters is more of a preference. I have Rival on the bike I ride the most and mechanical on the others

[@kovar2344]

I like the honesty.