How the Rammstein Scandal Exposes the Dark Side of Rock

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Dear users, since posting this video Till Lindemann's lawyers have commissioned an investigation into the allegations made by Irishwoman Shelby Lynn. The photos of bruises on her body were posted on her social media and led to suspicions that these could be due to physical abuse. These photos can be seen in the above video. In a press release, lawyers for Lindemann say: " The Institute for Forensic Medicine of the University Hospital of Cologne was commissioned to evaluate the photographs published by Ms. Lynn along with the video clip to determine what causes the injuries shown there could have." According to the institute's expert opinion, "the recordings suggest a non-involuntary accident as the most probable cause." The public prosecutor's office in Vilnius have closed the investigation initiated by Shelby Lynn's complaint.

[@TheGenbox2]

Thanks for posting some real news. The whole incident looks like a mash up of the play, The Crucible, and the films, The Village and Passage to India. And probably many other artworks....... Till on his artwork: "I’m talking about the art as a whole, not the content it transports. You don’t have to be able to interpret or understand content. You hear or see something that is supposed to trigger a reaction in you. Only then do you form your own picture, your own thoughts about it. But first you have to deal with art, that is, allow art; find their own access." Till for Sonic Seducer, 2013.

[@achots]

there was much more to read. cease and desist declaration of Kayla Shyx and the swiss media blick,ch. interim disposal against Der Spiegel

[@Punchmemommy]

Maybe you should have held off as to not makes asses of yourselves

[@thoushaltremain]

They should also analyze when was Shelby's video actually recorded. Could have been old footage? Also, confirm with eyewitnesses. Some say her behavior was quite erratic at the concert, typical of alcohol consumption, even before her initial allegations. Possible fall?

[@tonysams7261]

Thinking we might see Till in the courtroom soon.....

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Dear users, since we released this video, it has been announced by the Lithuanian police in Vilnius that investigations against Till Lindemann in the case of Shelby Lynn have been dropped. The Berlin prosecutor's office is however still investigating. DW will keep you updated on all channels regarding further developments concerning Rammstein and Till Lindemann.

[@YBM2007]

Libel lawsuit incoming, guys?

[@Punchmemommy]

@@YBM2007I hope so

[@Ausderkaribik]

Why don't you just be honest and tell the readers that the case in Berlin is actually an investigation that was started because two people filed a complaint. The two people are third party - that means they are not involved with Lindemann directly. Further to this - their evidence comes from the social media. This is what is reported as a case against Lindemann!!!

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@Punchmemommy Why do you hope so. Do you have a father, brothers, nephews or sons?

[@AJeziorski1967]

This is a very uncomfortable subject for me ... I've been a fan of the band since I first saw them live in about 1997, and I always felt that underneath their aggressive music their deliberately provocative lyrics and stage shows, there was a core of compassion. Everything I heard about them seemed to confirm this. When I heard the lyrics to 'Platz Eins', I assumed Lindemann was in character parodying the narcissism of others, because the lyrics were just too absurd to take seriously and his delivery of the song is deliberately exaggerated and ironic. Even now, I find it hard to believe that the worst accusations are true. I sincerely hope they're not. When it comes to sex, I've always believed the only meaningful limit is consent - but consent is everything.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for your balanced opinion on this matter!

[@teijaflink2226]

I feel similarity but even if he hasn't done anything illegal it makes me feel disgusted that he was using very young fangirls like they where escorts, I just find it so distrspectful towards his female fans (like they're only good for sex), I think specially as a 60 year old he should have some responsibility that young fans specially feel safe at their shows. I feel specially disappointed as I really thought they cared about their fans and their safety.

[@chrgher440]

Sadly, artists create from what they know.

[@Ausderkaribik]

He has been accused of drugging and raping women. It is about as stupid as it gets. Can you name one single person who he drugged and raped? I would say you can't because nobody has accused him of rape and drugs except the "me too" women's movement and the press! This woman admitted in writing that he did not touch her. The hearing from Berlin are by two people who are third parties and their evidence comes from social media. Be informed!

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@DWHistoryandCulture What is so balanced about what he had to say? Nothing you are grasping at straws!

[@tetsu3117]

As a female fan of rammstein since the 90’s…I so hope it’s not true. But I can’t be blinded by my love of their music. Everything is possible.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts with us. We understand that it can be difficult when your love for their music is challenged. Sending you all the best

[@kirunts]

Yes, everything is possible. It is also possible that the USA/freemasons don't like people with big influence that criticize their system. Rammstein is visibly socialist and critical of the US culture and imperialism and so on... Just like Beatles and John Lennon. Just like the case with the Julian Assange in Sweden. Don't let the system blind you. Innocent until proven guilty. This case is ridiculous, check the actual facts accusations have. They even changed their claims a few times. Have a good day.

[@nazimovab3549]

Anything is possible.

[@tetsu3117]

@@nazimovab3549 thank you for going out of your way to correct my mistakes.

[@billbombshiggy9254]

I don't care if they have video of him kicking kittens and R wording children. I'll still listen to Rammstein. I don't believe it because women lie (i would know. I am one. I personally know a girl who lied about R word and domestic violence. She admitted after ten to fifteen years, that it was all a lie. She even faked a PTSD diagnosis.) about this shit all the time. After the amber heard Johnny Depp fiasco, you'd think more people would realize that they lie often. I still blare ignition remix. Don't act like people never liked that song. That song was great and still is. Don't care what R Kelly did. I'll still listen to it.

[@jeanmarcwatier760]

Dark side of Rock? Ha! What about Hollywood, what about Hip-Hop, Rap or even Country. It always amazes me that they make Rock the main target for all evil things. Also, in regards to Till, he's innocent until proven guilty.

[@l_m9494]

Where did he deny this happens elsewhere. The whole world is aware what goes on. Nobody is picking on rock music

[@eduardoburato7632]

As well as business, política, jouralism, sports - there's a "system" everywhere but a Rock Band is the biggest problem, of course. Pfffff

[@romanbrandle319]

The dark side of men in power might be all encompassing and it is a thing.

[@mojo1388]

Whataboutism at its greatest

[@friedrichnietzsche2557]

Bro they talk about R Kelly, this happens to all industries but they are talking about a rock band not rock in specific

[@pugalugarug1076]

Schneider did not distance himself from Till in his statement. He literally ends it saying the 6 of them stand together. Please read the entire thing instead of cherry picking one sentence that fits your narrative.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

instagram.com/p/CtjOPD8sgZf/ Here is Christoph Schneiders entire quote. We appreciate your comments on our KZbin channel DW History and Culture. We want our audience to be able to engage in constructive debates, share stories and discuss our content.

[@iamcase1245]

This case was dropped, multiple eye witnesses have released video of that night and proof the accuser was lying , AND both events she claimed she was assaulted in were full of people who said nothing happened. Are you going to post a redaction or apology video?@@DWHistoryandCulture

[@standinsilence]

Yes he did say that there were things going on backstage that might not be illegal but that he personally felt were morally wrong . At the same time when you read the whole statement his main point seems to be that the band stand together. Schneider seems like a decent guy. Lindemann in my personal opinion really doesn't after all I've read and heard about this. And yeah I also can't see him in the same light after watching his creepy Till The End short sex-film.

[@Scrowlock12]

Innocent until proven guilty. I love how they use the song “Platz Einz,” to make it seem like he’s guilty. It’s a song about a narcissist. Obviously if he’s found guilty, he deserves to face the full penalty of law. Until then, I stand with Till Lindemann

[@nazimovab3549]

There were people trying to use his Messer poetry book to paint him off as a pedophile and a misogynist. A book that came out almost 20 years ago. Its ridiculous.

[@standinsilence]

I know Plats Einz is just a song but with all the stuff I've heard and read about Lindemann he does seem like very much a narcissist. At the same time Im not expecting rockstars to be rolemodels.

[@Scrowlock12]

I've read the opposite. I heard he was soft spoken until he got onstage. @@standinsilence

[@annegretkasten6277]

It can't be right. It was a press campaign. Till has now filed a complaint against Kayla and the press. It's really a scandal. towards innocent people.

[@BojanaStevanovic-t3b]

Till is innocent, he doesn't abuse the women he doesn't need to do that, he has choice to be with all women on this World...And he is so calmed and shy in his private life...everything that you see on the stage is just show...

[@PeruNik00]

With all due respect- if something illegal happens, go to police, not online .

[@MrJordiBaby]

Will I stop listening to Rammstein if Lindemann is charged, even convicted? The answer is probably no. He is not the reason why I love Rammstein. In any case, these allegations should be thoroughly investigated, without the pressure of public opinion, one way or the other.

[@einienj3281]

People these days mix their personalities to celebs, their idols are gods that can't do anything wrong.. I like their music but I don't worship anyone/anything, I'll believe the evidence.

[@sbseg]

hey - in good ol germany the allegations are thorpughly investigated ! - "you can let a fart on it" - as we germans say : "Darauf kannst du einen lassen" - I for myself will enjoy rammstein and lindemanns lyrics which are clearly a decisive partbof the whole even if he would be convicted ... because THIS would be NOTHING to do with TRUTH at all ! - think abt it please - lol

[@MrJordiBaby]

@@lemsip207 Lost Prophets was a bad one. And I loved their song because it was Jeff Hardy's entrance song. The band had no choice but to pull away from him. I'm sure that if Till is charged, convicted and encarcerated, Rammstein will do the same.

[@MrJordiBaby]

@@sbseg That's good to know because these are serious allegations. I will see them on Monday, the 26th BTW. Let's hope it's not the last time, with or without Till.

[@einienj3281]

@@lemsip207 People are too eager to brand themselves.. band tattoos are cult mentality.. it's like getting a tattoo of your first bf/gf name..

[@chrgher440]

This does not surprise me at all. I grew up in the 70's and am very aware of what can happen to young girls because it happened to me. By the way, you forgot Jimmy Page's 14 year old.

[@ChristianThueringer]

its mentioned at 8:30

[@chrgher440]

​@@ChristianThueringer Apologies. Watched again and he was the first one mentioned. I was unaware of David Bowie's exploitation until I re-watched it.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your story. We appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with our community. Sending you all the best

[@didi-bc1xs]

Till also had sexual relationship with a 15 year old,a friend of a daughter of one band member. He was 47 by that time. She is damaged by that relationship,but by that time,she was in love and felt like an adult. In Germany its legal to be in that relationship with that age gap. I am just shocked.

[@iamcase1245]

This case was dropped, multiple eye witnesses have released video of that night and proof the accuser was lying AND both events she claimed she was assaulted in were full of people who said nothing happened. Are you going to post a redaction or apology video?

[@MortonsDrunkGaming]

Why would a news channel say they are wrong ?

[@cutebeatriz]

Really hoping you are right here, love their music...Can you please tell me the source of this?

[@glight5205]

I am 43 years old and I have been in live shows since I was 14. No one ever forced to go backstage, all the chicks I have seen just wanted a different kind of an autograph to have in their collection. Being a rock star is a journey in a train full of emotions, skills, drugs, alcohol sex and contracts. Better run a investigation to the Vatican but who got the balls right?

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

We will keep an eye on the developments and report as usual, fair and unbiased.

[@BojanaStevanovic-t3b]

There are more abusers on the streets that they are not famous, and nobody writes about that...

[@fairuzmaileen5691]

Not a fan of them so I would not defend neither judge, but the title of the video "The Dark side of Rock" is misleading... because this doesn't happen with every band. Also sexual assaults are common unfortunately, everywhere, not just in 1 group of people, like religious groups for instance... we all know that, but must be reminded

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for sharing your opinion! It helps us in moving the discussion forward.

[@EggTamago7]

I've been a Rammstein fan since the early 00s, I've seen them live twice, and I do think their music and lyrics have often been quite progressive and had a positive impact in many ways. But, even if I zoom out, set specific accusations I can't possibly verify aside, and look at the big picture: Having a system in place of Till's inner circle populating a private "after-party" (apparently separate from the band's regular after-party, going by Schneider's statement) with a selection of women Till specifically finds attractive so he can take his pick... that's not fine at all and has no place in 2023. I'm not saying after-parties are inherently awful, or that band members need to take vows of celibacy on tour. But, there's clearly a big difference in the dynamic when comparing a regular after-party attended by a variety of people, and the system that Till's inner circle seems to have created. I've read many of the stories about groupie culture in the 60s and 70s, finding much of it exploitative and misogynistic. It would be utterly hypocritical of me to give this a free pass. Rammstein has often taken a stand for progressive ideals in other ways, so the ball is really in their court on how to handle this. They can deny everything and hope it fizzles out, or they can admit that things need to change and do better.

[@Blackpilld]

So if this wasn’t 2023 it would pass “your” very important radar?

[@ashmonkey2572]

Ppl are more aware nowerdays, especially after me 2. Dont try attack them on that. It is Just a fact.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your story and thoughts. We truly appreciate your time and contribution to meaningful discussions.

[@TheGenbox2]

Another pov - Very little Rammstein needs to change, if anything: it's our society that needs to be able to take of genuine discussion instead of hysteria and hyperbole. That is actually in the art of Rammstein, but folk are so high on signifiers and value statements and accusations of other's moral turpitude, they literally can't see the wood for the trees. Jean Baudrillard wrote in 1981, that media was heading in the direction, that signifiers were going to be more important than the real. Look like he was spot on. People don't want to wait for the fact that are now coming out that there are no charges to be answered. Nothing like bullshit shifts quicker off a hot shovel! I challenge those who have made moral, financial and ideological capital out of this, to promote the official Police findings that are being release with equal energy, but greater gathering of sustainable fact.

[@Ausderkaribik]

Not everything we read in press is the truth. No woman has come forward to date and said anything about him. It's all about two people doing what they want in their free time and in privacy. It's called democracy - nobody has a right to tell them what to do once they both consent. So far no woman has said they did not consent!!

[@sinocam]

Till Lindemann was in the last years always seen next to a lot of different porn stars,so he is definitely busy in the porn/sexindustry out of private reasons. So going backstage with him, I should somehow be aware of he is not gonna read me a poem. This actually turned me of Lindemann and made me question him a lot. His former longer relationship with Sophia Thomalla is also not fitting somehow to the picture of the great deep thinking artist, since she is super dull, has absolutely no content in her personality, questions absolute nothing in life, is really the super superficial influencer mind you can imagine. I see him regularly posing next to girls or women, but none of them are somewhere near an intellectual tone of mindset. To be honest, I have the feeling Till Lindemann might not be that deep as we think.

[@TheKageDj]

If Till is guilty he has to pay for what has done, no woman deserves that! But I will not stop listening to Rammstein, that's never going to happen!

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and feelings about this

[@Ausderkaribik]

Did you know that the investigation in Berlin stems from two people who are from a "THIRD PARTY". That means they are not even involved with him. Till lawyers has confirmed that their evidence is from social media. Now tell me this - do you seriously think that someone is going to be charged based on information that was found on social media. Not in Germany where they work with facts.

[@MrThedonhead]

Hopefully your under 16 coz if you listen then that's embarrassing

[@Oskar23441]

​@@MrThedonheadwhy?

[@TheKageDj]

@@MrThedonhead du hast mich?

[@Selket83]

As I’m writing this, this video has been watched a little over 40 000 times, but has only about 800 likes. Says a lot… R+🤘🏻

[@AGoodJoe]

So if Till is cleared, I certainly hope as many videos are made to say as much, it I know better.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

We will keep an eye on the developments and report as usual, fair and unbiased.

[@MrAcapella]

@@DWHistoryandCulture no you didnt

[@Nikkimorox1]

With regards to Shelby, she was wasted before this "alleged spiked drink". The girl even had her bio on Instagram as the girl that was spiked at a rammstein concert..... Theres an interview with one of the girls that were there on Colonel Kurtz channel here on you tube which was very eye opening and contradicts many of Shelbys story. I heard the drug test didnt show anything, as for the bruises, girls there said she fell and banged into things during and after the concert....and if she did get asked to have sex why would she go to all the after parties....she said she only had 2 drinks but people there said she was constantly drinking. As well as alcohol there was non alcohol drinks available too. Lastly if she went to the police why did she not get a rape kit......i dont think its right to believe everything without evidence and only o n someone's word. Many mens lives have been ruined due to false SA allegations. Look at Depp and Manson.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence. Being invited to an aftershow party (and accepting the invitation) or requesting an invitation does not imply consent to engage in sexual acts. We do not support victim blaming, and believe that everyone deserves respect and safety, regardless of their choices. However, we will keep an eye on the developments and report as usual, fair and unbiased. You can find an overview of all current events at the following link: www.dw.com/en/rammstein/t-19312319

[@Nikkimorox1]

@@DWHistoryandCulture victim blaming, really.....of course the two words we always hear when we rightly question and chose not to hang someone when there is veey little evidence or they havnt been prosecuted, we should know by now not to just go by someones word, especially someone that goes straight to social media and lies about going to the police in the beginning......if I was offended and uncomfortable like she made out to be in that recording....."he wanted to have sex with me......eeeeugh".....I know most woman wouldn't go to no after party(ies) Everything I have stated is from interviews with women that were there in row zero with her, that also drank from the same alcohol bottles, that were also sealed until they opened them. People are way too quick to prosecute men through the media without going through the right legal channels first.

[@MooncricketsInc]

@@DWHistoryandCulture So are you going to make a new video apologising to Rammstein now and telling everyone what a bunch of idiotic clowns, channels like yours are?

[@BasedBoomer1337]

I've been itching to say something since day 1 but due to the current political climate in the world I have been keeping my mouth shut. However I can't hold my tongue to not say this: Videos like this only add fuel to the fire of the allegations, help no one and hurt only the band. So much hearsay. I'm praying for this turn out like Johnny Depp did in the end. And if it does anyone who made allegations that are proven false need to go to jail.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

We will keep an eye on the developments and report as usual, fair and unbiased. You can find an overview of all current events at the following link: www.dw.com/en/rammstein/t-19312319

[@rachaelt8729]

I hope DW get sued for this

[@dilsyy]

I believe that my comment has been deleted or filtered by the system so here we go again. I personally disagree with two points in this video: 1. Shelby was not 'picked out from the row 0' as said in the video. Based on her own screenshots, she messaged the casting manager herself, asking how the parties worked and if she could attend one. She was then asked for her age and afterwards she was invited. The girls who get invited, with a lot of them inquiring first about how to get to the parties, then go to this row 0 or the row right in front of the stage (not to be confused with Feuerzone row 1 which is behind the barricade). Some of those girls are invited to the preparty and all of the girls along with other guests are at the afterparty. But for the purpose of transparency, she was not scouted, she asked to be invited herself. 2. I would also diagree with the statement that Christoph has distanced himself from Till. He has said several times that they stand together. But that could just be me.

[@TheGenbox2]

I agree with your statements. I'd add, as a pov, that the Schneider statement was naïve (either that or a statement for the fans plus a throw away comment to the mass mad media?) and a broad brush stroke, trying to cover too many things; and possibly something got lost in translation too. Perhaps it was meant to be as so. ??????? I'm vacillating that either R+ have had no real opposition of late, and have been insulated from the insanity of certain aspects of the 'net , or they'd, they had a plan, just in case. The lawyers were quite quick off the mark to marshalling their own for evidence. Who knows. I concur that this is all fantastic puritanical hyperbole (Rosenrot video anyone?: it's a blend of German fairy-tale and The Crucible). Has the point been consider that photos get taken to check age, and that any videoing is protocol? When you are in customer service, a head count is quite usual. Save's leaving someone behind, unchaperoned.

[@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS]

Almost all of the girl's account has been debunked by another attendee of both the concert and the after-party. The only aspect in question (although the whole thing is that of "she said, she said" as it stands) is the whole "under the stage" aspect, which the witness/attendee couldn't attest to. I personally don't know what to think overall and I hope that more accounts of the events come out, however I am leaning towards the "it didn't happen" perspective judging by the lack of correlation between statements and the clear state of inebriation/behaviour of the accuser in footage taken from the concert. If I am proven wrong, I will be wrong and happily admit so, but as it stands for now the attitudes towards things seems to be a case of putting the cart before the horses by a public who are more than eager to tear anyone down regardless of the circumstances.

[@Ausderkaribik]

People don't know the facts and jump to conclusion. I agree 100% on both your points. I don't for one minute doubt that your comment was deleted. DW has done a disgraceful job of accurate reporting of this case and the moderator might just delete all my messages.

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS My personal view is - Till has better taste than that. Why would he pick the most unattractive one to ask for s3x?

[@alkebabish]

People wonder why male stars who are already polular with women become rapists. It's because a lot of these people are narcissits who want power and it is never enough. R Kelly would have had no problems finding women to sleep with him, but that wasn't enough, he had to totally control and abuse them. Its common behaviour. I think this video blurs the lines between groupie culture and rape too much, but a lot of these celebrities are very twisted people. I bet a lot more women will come forward with all sorts of stuff now.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for the feedback!

[@elizabethlode9822]

WHAT is there not a dark side too???? Thanks humans for being so messed up.

[@michellep9999]

Why is Joe Letz getting a free pass while Til takes all the heat?

[@ProgrammedForDamage]

As soon as his name came up it raised red flags. He had a dodgy reputation when he was in Combichrist.

[@CountessLydia]

Yep. Who can forget the adorable (sarcasm!) video to Throat Full of Glass - disgusting and they still sell out when they come to my city. I am ashamed of my community for continuing to enable them.

[@michellep9999]

@@CountessLydia Agreed! I love that song but the video is absolutely reprehensible and repulsive AF.

[@annegretkasten6277]

Because nothing happened at all. You should turn on your brain.

[@chemicalmilkshake]

@@michellep9999 Can I ask what is it wrong with it? Not being sarcastic or anything, I'm just not familiar with Combichrist and from what I could tell the video looked like a shootout scene with strippers(?), which doesn't seem too horrible without context.

[@9148H2]

I don't condone rape or any sexual misconduct. This is not what I want to talk about. What I want to talk about is when I read the title The Dark Side of Rock, and hear the music industry needs to shape up. Then I know this is a corporate hit piece to attack Rock and Roll in general. First off, Rock and Roll has always had a darkness to it. That's why it attracts so many people. It goes all the way back to its blues roots. It dates back to the urban legends of Robert Johnson selling his soul to the devil to be a great blues guitar player. It goes back to when Black Musicians would sing sad songs about the racist society they lived in during Jim Crow. Little Richard was one of the architects of Rock music and he was a gay black man living in the South who had his life threatened every day by the homophobic and racist white society that he was a prisoner of at the time and found music was his freedom from the horrible oppression he lived in. I'm not going to talk about the allegations of Till Lindemann, Marilyn Manson, or Johnny Depp, I'm talking about Rock music and how throughout the decades to this very day. The Unholy Trinity which is the people in Business, Religion, and Government have always wished to see the destruction of all genres of Rock music. Why does the corporate establishment always push for these safe vanilla pop and rap acts? It's because Rock can't be controlled, and Rock's message is always anti-authoritarian and anti-establishment. I've heard stories of allegations about Justin Beiber sexually assaulting young women and I don't see his name being dragged by the news media the same way they did to Manson, Depp, or Lindemann. Now, as I said before I don't condone rape or harm of any kind, but there is hypocrisy going on with the Media. Right now there are allegations being made about the pop singer Lizzo, and the media seems to be protecting her. If the allegations are true about rock stars then shouldn't they also go after pop stars, rap stars, and country stars who are accused of the same crimes the same way to even the playing field? What I am seeing is the media saying Rock music is the villain, and I don't want to hear it coming from corporate stooges who serve Media institutions that have protected the likes of Jimmy Saville, Prince Andrew, Harvey Weinstein, Donald Trump, and Jefferey Epstein for decades when it was safe.

[@scottflowe2875]

The charges were dropped due to lack of evidence

[@TheFryBr]

The cover art of Witchfinder General are also a good example of glorifying violence against and rape of women by the bandmembers.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing. We truly appreciate comments that contribute to meaningful discussions.

[@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS]

It's literally depicting a witch-hunt... You are absolutely reaching.

[@TheFryBr]

@@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS reaching?

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@DWHistoryandCulture Don't you mean what you want to hear!!!

[@tc-tm1my]

This behavior has been common in the industry for decades. Hopefully German authorities take the accusations seriously.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@einienj3281]

I bet there would be a lot of willing women, no need for abuse.. that's the most insane part..

[@tosa2522]

@@lemsip207 Isn't it more the case that women chase their stars because they are attracted to them?

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Between fans and performers there are different power dynamics at play, that's of course something to keep in mind. Thanks for your comment!

[@trildi]

@@tosa2522 Does it mean you have to spike their drinks??

[@einienj3281]

@@DWHistoryandCulture Oh, of course..

[@einienj3281]

@@lemsip207 It is a weird set up to begin with, they could just get prostitutes, but I guess they don't make you feel like gods, bc their worship isn't real, it's nothing like the fan worship

[@akobloom863]

Please, stop these rumors and wait for the facts! 😑

[@dragonwing4449]

It could be true

[@akobloom863]

@@dragonwing4449 maybe yes, maybe not. In this moment there is only rumors.

[@EqualityOnEarth]

@@akobloom863 So many women mentioned the same, its more likely to be true then false.

[@akobloom863]

@@EqualityOnEarth I know

[@johanneshalberstadt3663]

It's beyond "rumors" at this point. So many women and industry onsiders that report the same. He himself putting out this imagery and products of his imagination. Where does the imagination come from? Women who want to remain anonymous, so they are not repoting for fame. And imagine how glad ly people would admit to having had consexual Sex with a rock star. Imagine how hard it is for victims in general to report assault and abuse. First of all acknowledge. Even to themselves, what has happened. Telling it to others. Standing against the whole fandom, the money, and power of such figures. They know they are going tonget attacked, threatened by millions of fans, who want to keep ifolizing their hero. Amd why do people even idolise people in such position? Because the want to imagine themselves in this position. They want to feel this egocentric power vicariously. How much glamour comes from admitting you were abused? People want to defend their heroes. They don't want bad stuff to happen in their world. The victims had no or little choice. I am aware that nothing has been proven yet. But everything points into a very clear direction. And these things are hard to prove anyway. Especially if it has happened longer ago and all real evidence has vanished. Especially if a drug has been used that dissappears after 12 hours out of the body. Most of these women have very little to gain, but a lot to fear and lose. The accusation of some fans of "being dressed like this" is even more sick, considering that Aleba Markeeva (the "Casting Director" or recruiter) specifically tells and told girls how to dress for the occasion.

[@Deroliebe]

Sex is not "liberating" if men always have the power. If there were more female rockstars, then we would be equal, but that's not the case. If a woman wants to feel the same power that a male rockstar has, she can't chose be a rockstar or be a groupie (most, I would argue would choose to be a rockstar). Either way, I'm sick of men and women-simps immediately saying these allegations are false. How the hell do you know? Why are women's SA discounted through society? Yes, some of us want to party with a rockstar and believe it not, not have sex.

[@dvanaestcestica1135]

I have no intentions of defending Till, but the mere fact of inviting people over 18 to afterparties that they were free to leave anytime technically is not illegal, so no criminal behaviour (unless any of the rape/non-consensual drugging is proven in the court). That's what the legal system has to say, at least currently. However, NONE of that fan-star dynamics that was happening after the Rammstein shows (and even during) as described from many different sources (not only the accusers) is acceptable from the human, and just plain common sense moral point of view (not moralistic, mind you). It's abuse of psychological and emotional power/influence, it's profiting off what for fans is an extraordinary, almost otherworldly circumstance to casually be in the presence of their idol, for everyone but especially for young people, a situation they probably have dreamt of finding themselves in but never actually believed it could ever come to be. It's profoundly wrong to dismiss the fact that a consent given in such a situation cannot be a valid consent, even if the person is 100% sober - not from the point of view of the law, but simply from the point of view of human conscience. Till should have been aware of that, and should not have participated in such a setup. And while it doesn't make him a criminal, it does expose him as a person who doesn't care of his fans' well-being and safety and shows 0 respect for them, which really, really, really doesn't speak well of him as a human being. The fact that similar things have been going on since Rock´n´Roll exists, or the fact that some of the historical groupies made that dynamics into careers, doesn't exonerate any of the stars from the fault that they have abused the awe and in many cases even the trans-like feeling they were/are giving their fans by just being in their presence. Pointing this out is not condescending toward fans, it's just recognizing one of the traits of the plain human psychology.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for sharing your opinion!

[@sandercohen5543]

This is just standard internet crap. Why would you draw more attention to this topic by making a news report on it? I'm not even a rammstein fan, but you always have to be careful what you believe when people start spreading rumors about public figures... especially on the internet. If this really happened, there are definitely more people who know *something* . You don't just drug and knock up a bunch of groupies without anyone noticing. Regardless of what happens in court, it is usually pretty easy to "smell blood" - if it's there at all. Whether or not it's sufficient evidence or not is another matter entirely, but you can rest assured that the man's reputation will be completely destroyed, if there is even a slight indication that the rumors have some truth to them. I also noticed that this is the same channel that made what amounts to a "hit-piece" on rammstein earlier this year, so perhaps DW is not the way to go, if you're looking for a more neutral news outlet, in this regard ;)

[@Ausderkaribik]

Imagine the scene - drugging a girl and dragging her out of a room full of people back to the hotel! I mean nobody would notice that one - would they. DW have definitely bashed Rammstein and Lindemann. I've written an offical complaint to them about their bias reporting,

Was passiert wenn man Rausfindet dass alles lügen sind...

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

We will keep an eye on the developments and report as usual, fair and unbiased. We kindly ask you to follow our netiquette guidelines and to comment in English so that our community can understand and engage. You can find our guidelines at the following link: p.dw.com/p/MF1G

[@chrisbrown8028]

Who the hell cares about whether they did it or not?! I couldn't care less. !!!

[@gbii2612]

lame, never heard of a rock band accused of anything ever. this has never happened ever in the histoy of an famous rock band ever, ever lmfao

[@johncady9780]

Historically, other scandalous names in the music business (regardless of whether or not they were charged with a crime) included Jerry Lee Lewis, Ted Nugent, KISS, and disgraced glam rocker Gary Glitter. Controversy sometimes fueled more success, and sometimes not. Rammstein won't likely see a negative result from all this unless Till Lindemann is charged and convicted of sexual assault. The band, which has retained its original lineup for almost 30 years, would then be forced to make a critical decision for their future. If convicted, Lindemann would be seen as a cancer and thus purged. All ties would need to be severed to save the band's legacy.

[@nazimovab3549]

Ted Nugent and Jerry Lee Lewis weren't charged with anything. Gary Glitter was because his crime involved babies. Same with Ian Watkins.

[@annegretkasten6277]

What does TL have to do with it now? There aren't even any reports from those affected. It has now turned out that it was just a campaign.

[@MooncricketsInc]

Stunning and brave speech Johnny.. Better luck next time

[@Himmelvakt]

Kinda crazy how this is obviously false alligation is what got them into trouble.

[@exeuropean]

Now the German police have said there is no evidence of abuse. Please retract this video

[@annegretkasten6277]

They don't have the decency to do that.🤮

[@veronicamaine3813]

Chances are he did it. It’s the music industry. They (rockstars and industry heads) have engaged in criminal behaviour for decades and gotten away with it, why would they stop?

[@2410-s9l]

Did what?

[@Ausderkaribik]

Chances are you can't think for yourself!

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@dvanaestcestica1135]

I have no intentions of defending Till, but the mere fact of inviting people over 18 to afterparties that they were free to leave anytime technically is not illegal, so no criminal behaviour (unless any of the rape/non-consensual drugging is proven in the court). That's what the legal system has to say, at least currently. However, NONE of that fan-star dynamics that was happening after the Rammstein shows (and even during) as described from many different sources (not only the accusers) is acceptable from the human, and just plain common sense moral point of view (not moralistic, mind you). It's abuse of psychological and emotional power/influence, it's profiting off what for fans is an extraordinary, almost otherworldly situation to casually be in the presence of their idol, for everyone but especially for young people, a situation they probably have dreamt of finding themselves in but never actually believed it could ever come to be. It's profoundly wrong to dismiss the fact that a consent given in such a situation cannot be a valid consent - not from the point of view of the law, but simply from the point of view of human conscience, even if the person is 100% sober. Till should have been aware of that, and should not have participated in such a setup. The fact that similar things have been going on since Rock´n´Roll exists, or the fact that some of the historical groupies made that dynamics into careers, doesn't exonerate any of the stars from the fault that they have abused the awe and in many cases even the trans-like feeling they were/are giving their fans by just being in their presence. It is not condescending toward fans, it's just plain human psychology.

[@D_isco_D_ancer]

Wild all these people who defend this guy and his "music", no wonder why in that sude of the world genomes are committed every decade. All of them instead f addressing the subject just immediately say "But in the west, or but in America...". That part of the world is scary and a wasteland.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

It's great to hear your perspective, and we're thankful you shared it with us and the community.

[@9395gb]

If minors are involved, there is no excuse. If young adults were involved and they were raped, drugged, forced, threatened, coerced or brided, then there is no excuse. If there is investigation, wait for the results. But it sounds like one of the bandmates may be convinced some of the behavior was wrong.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@simonetta-ta]

I mean, what is so "romantic" a/ taking advantage of the young age of women for sex? I am the same generation of RS, and I feel so bad. What a shame. It seems we're still in the stoneage. Geez. Not to speak a/ the trauma many young women and MINORS may have experienced through those decades-that is BAD 😢👎🏾

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing you thoughts and feelings.

[@AlexCio]

it's good to see more english content about this topic

[@greggsonic]

“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority; still more when you superadd the tendency of the certainty of corruption by authority.” Having power corrupts a man/women, or lessens his/her's morality, and the more power a man/women has, the more corrupted he/she will become.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@NaninanaL]

I want to see the doc when the facts and real proof show if he is guilty or innocent. Another way the damage for him is done and no one could hear the truth...

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community. DW informs its users about the latest developments in the Lindemann and Rammstein case across all platforms and here in the comment sections.

[@_Rammstein]

Smh ...you guys do know that there are groupies at any show, right? This isn't only at rock shows

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence. We do not support victim blaming, and believe that everyone deserves respect and safety, regardless of their choices.

[@agustindetlefsen6944]

@@DWHistoryandCulturecut it out with the progressive views, some women aren’t as innocent as you imagine. Many seek to fulfill their needs this way, this is why some choose to offer sex services in exchange for money rather than an honorable job. Most girls who are invited to private parties at shows know very well what they are doing, they know what they have to offer and why they were invited, though not necessarily for sex but to make the band members have a good time. Shelby wasn’t abused by Till in any way by her allegations, even she means to protect his image while the investigation is ongoing by claiming multiple times that he never touched her inappropriately or abused her in any other way. Don’t jump on your sensitive side when you see Till with beautiful women in his music videos, its called art characterization, Scorsese and Tarantino don’t engage or support brutal killings and low morale activities only because they portray them in their movies.

[@ahhhhhhhhdogdogdoggggg]

You can literally make up lies about anyone

[@7lovessomemusic]

I love Rammstein music, it was my favourite group for a decade, but I won't support this type of violence. I feel disappointed right know.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@achots]

Sorry, but as long you quote Kayla i cant take this clip serious.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your viewpoint. Deutsche Welle stands for freedom and dialogue. In order to report as usual, in a fair and unbiased manner, it is necessary to provide everyone involved with an opportunity to express themselves.

[@MrsNanaBlue]

Jede darf erzählen, was sie selbst erlebt hat. Das hat sie getan. Daran ist nichts verwerfliches.

[@YKKY]

This is a rather silly view that discriminates against people who want to tell their story. You should think about that

[@achots]

@@MrsNanaBlue Sie hat eben nicht nur erzählt was sie erlebt hat. Deshalb hat sie zumindest schon in zwei Punkten eine Unterlassungserklärung abgegeben.

[@annegretkasten6277]

​@@MrsNanaBlueAch, dass sie Till einen Pädophilen genannt hat und Rammstein als Naziband und, und. Das zählt nicht?

[@crushingthevector5837]

The music of Rammstein and Lindemann is laced with sexuality, debauchery, BDSM and everything in between. It is no secret that Lindemann's persona presses the envelope on everything from homosexuality to R8P3. The music industry has been plagued with tales of groupies, orgies, drugs, alcohol and lots of bad decisions. I cant imagine that any of that is going to change. The appeal of Till is often his sexual diversity and openness regarding his insatiable appetite. Unfortunately, this scenario that has now brought this into the limelight boils down to a she said, he said situation. Its not to say that something unusual did not take place. But, what exactly, we may never know. Sadly, this will likely cast a light on Till that he might never be able to escape. If he IS innocent of this situation, it is likely going to change the presence we have all come to love regarding the Rammstein performances and art. Since, there has been similar stories linked to Till in the past, it is likely he may not be able to escape the shame and false accusations. For the accuser, I cannot imagine the pressure and fear by which she may now have to live with. The entire situation just seems so strange and suspect. However, I think nearly anyone given an opportunity to meet Till, as a fan, might perhaps be star struck enough to walk into an unusual meeting place such as been described. The worst part is, she stated repeatedly that Till never touched her. Which makes the mention of "drugged" drinks and bruises seem irrational and bordering nonsensical. If Till did not touch you. Nor did he pour you a drink. Just simply met you for a moment, while you admitted to being intoxicated, why should anything be trusted regarding this story and why is Till being persecuted as if he has done something wrong? That said, the reaction by the band, along with their public statements do seem peculiar and strange. Regardless, I stand with Till and Rammstein. For any of those females or males, who throughout rock n roll history, made bad choices or perhaps found themselves being used in ways they might not have agreed to. Whether induced by drugs or alcohol or simply submitting to the awe of stardom, I hope you find healing. If by chance these moments were derived through illegal or immoral means, I hope those responsible find themselves in the grasp of the law and may justice be served promptly and swiftly.

[@TheGenbox2]

Apologise to Genvbox. The @ ref is a recurring fault. No @ to you @ crushingthevector5837. "It is no secret that Lindemann's persona presses the envelope on everything from homosexuality to R8P3". "The appeal of Till is often his sexual diversity and openness regarding his insatiable appetite". IF YOU MEAN that his artwork pushes the envelope: it does! If you mean that HE, as in his personhood, has an instable appetite, then you don't read Rammstein with any plausible critique (imo). A literal accusation of R8P3 is totally out of order and unfounded. "his sexual diversity and openness regarding his insatiable appetite", pushes the interpretati9n that way! Clarify your position, as it reads as an accusation given in the style of hyperbole and hysteria the Media has unleashed. Vandalism, and mob demonstrations at gigs has happen before any official hits mass output. My reply is to clarify and counter the reading that you are actually accusing Till of R8P3; 'The statement by you comes over as is collation of fan and media phantasy and hyperbole; add to this, the ability to not be able to separate the Man from his art, and this hysterical mess / puritanical witch-hunt, is what you get. It is an error in think to attribute Till's artwork as a disclosure of his personhood. I study the third Reich. I've read books, trained as an artist, talked with others, including individuals who's parents lived through the 3rd Reich; and made notes of my thoughts. At what point do I become promoter of the architects of the 3rd Reich? It's analysis and cultural critique! So is Till's and Rammstein's artwork. it's a deep dive / cross section of Germany's history and collective psychology. Sexuality and perversion is an integral part of that. Ever read and Sigmund Freud, Wilhelm Reich or Jungian Psychology? The first two certainly had something to say about sex and perversion; and all are German. Basically the problem is that he is a recording artist, reaching a large audience. There's nothing I haven't seen before in the white cube of the gallery space. And yes, I include 'Art/Porn debatable art', viewed as part if my formal art training (and it was a female teacher who presented the art and class to a mixed adult). With art, there is presumption of intellectual rigor, context and subjectivity, over salacious titillation re adult subjects, unless PROVED otherwise! That burden of proof has not been made in regards to Till in any real legal terms - only in the court of public opinion, as it is called. And yep, I've drawn naked people, both male and female. So when do I become a sexual pervert, and a supporter of the third Reich? Only when someone positive in cultural art terms, into a puritanical and sensational pig's ears! A quote from Till about his art: "I’m talking about the art as a whole, not the content it transports. You don’t have to be able to interpret or understand content. You hear or see something that is supposed to trigger a reaction in you. Only then do you form your own picture, your own thoughts about it. But first you have to deal with art, that is, allow art; find their own access." Till for Sonic Seducer, 2013".'

[@geetee2694]

If you are standing, especially nearer the stage, you are getting bruised by the sheer energy of the crowd. Nothing malicious. If you've been drinking, then get taken backstage, it is now starting to hit you.

[@TheGenbox2]

@@geetee2694 If you mean, as the alcohol and adrenaline and changes in stimulus pushes you towards potential negative and depressive thinking (alcohol is a depressive), yep, folk without the years of real experience of alcohol and excitement, and the 'drops' and the brain popping the odd fuse or two! yeh - "then it hits you"! Can't say if that was Shelby's experience or not. Other narratives may be at play. I'll leave that to others: there is yet a lot to be soberly unpacked and official stated with the Till/ Rammstein issue, and KZbin is full of it, and I don't' mean sobering fact. Doesn't sell, or make money or other cred.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@annegretkasten6277]

Rarely read such rubbish. Rammstein has a wide range of topics, from environmental protection to child abuse. You should read the texts carefully. Furthermore, all band members are family men. Till Lindemann has 2 daughters, a son and a grandson. He is a good son, brother and father. Can you imagine what this is like for his family?

[@kristofdevlamynck4786]

Please correct yourself, all charges against Till have been dropped by Lithuanian police.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for contributing to the debate with your comment. The Berlin Public Prosecutor's Office also launched an official investigation against Lindemann.

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@DWHistoryandCulture Yes - by two people who are "third party" using information from social media as their evidence. Why don't you say that???

[@ThundaStrack]

I support Shelby Lynne. Mad respect for her courage to tell her side. Stand strong Girls!

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for watching. We appreciate you sharing your perspective with us and the community.

[@JohnWick54935]

Everybody looks so silly now that the real truth has been unleashed😊Till Lindemann forever❤

[@flowerfield3468]

I just want to enjoy good music but men have to ruin absolutely everything

[@DeathByBoobie]

All the people that victim blame are nasty!

[@AdyExploresNet]

All the people that lie and call supporters victim blamers are degenerates

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Hello, We appreciate your comments on our KZbin channel DW History and Culture. We want our audience to be able to engage in constructive debates, share stories and discuss our content. To achieve that, we kindly remind you that we do not allow dismissive and insulting comments towards other users. We also do not tolerate any form of discrimination, racism, sexism, homophobia, abuse of minorities, religious insults, profanity, or other forms of hate speech. Any comment containing conspiracy theories and/or deliberately misleading information is not allowed. In the event of violations of these guidelines, comments will be edited, hidden or completely deleted by our community managers without prior agreement. In the event of persistent or serious violations, we reserve the right to block users from our channels temporarily or permanently. By choosing to comment on our DW social media platforms, you agree to abide by these DW netiquette guidelines. You can find DW netiquette linked in the info box of every video as well as by following this link: p.dw.com/p/MF1G We look forward to stimulating discussions and a lively exchange of views.

[@lilim5737]

*En México 🇲🇽 sucede mucho que las mujeres usan sus redes sociales para denunciar hechos tan graves como abusos sexuales, cuando lo correcto, creo yo, es levantar una denuncia formal ante las entidades jurídicas, precisamente porque lo único que se causa es alboroto y revuelo y todos opinan para bien o no* 😑🤨

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community. We kindly remind you to adhere to our netiquette guidelines and comment in English. This allows the community to participate in constructive discussions. You can find our guidelines in the information box of our videso or by visiting the following link: p.dw.com/p/MF1G Sending you all the best

[@jeroenmout8647]

Judge ruled, no case.

[@Punchmemommy]

DW is milking this like a cow.

[@annegretkasten6277]

They are also so beautifully neutral in their reporting. Now that it turns out it was just hot air, they won't even apologize.

[@fabriziogonzales9719]

I agree with pretty much everything on this vid, but, just for context, the character Lindemann plays in Platz Eins is a completely drugged amputee having delusions about what’s happening in the video. The character is drugged and repeating “Platz Eins” while spacing out.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for watching and for the feedback!

[@2410-s9l]

In a documentary I saw on the subject of groupies, an older female said that groupies get into areas that they want to be in. What would be the reason of going to a backstage bamd after party? Are the girls going to chat about their career opportunities or maybe discuss politics? Why are woman going to these parties? Why dont they say no if they get offered a backstage pass? If you dont want to be there SAY NO... Shelby went to the pre show party and the after parties ... Why ...if she was so shocked about what alledgedly happened ... Did she still go to the aftershow parties in which her associates said she was not acting drugged in the slightest. What is the fiture of concerts? Chicks with minders making sure they dont enter a r#pe tent? Its hysteria. Two orher people spring to mind.... John Proctor and Fatty Arbuckle... Both victims of a lying woman.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence. Being invited to an aftershow party (and accepting the invitation) or requesting an invitation does not imply consent to engage in sexual acts. We do not support victim blaming, and believe that everyone deserves respect and safety, regardless of their choices.

[@9395gb]

These were minors regardless of the reasons they went to met the band. When are people going to start taking accountability for their bad actions.

[@2410-s9l]

@@9395gb minors?

[@2410-s9l]

@@DWHistoryandCulture no one was r@ped. There was no sexual violence at the Rammstein after party. If this sort of behavior occurs then the woman should go straight to the police and lay charges.

[@boris1387]

There's always been crazy behaviour around rock and roll

[@Deroliebe]

That's not an excuse for SA or going after children....

[@boris1387]

@@Deroliebe did I say it was???

[@jharris467]

I love Till. I also love freight trains but you’ll never catch me trying to jump on one 🤘🏻

[@lisascarrott6142]

i have got mixed views about this as a survivor of rape myself and sex assaults as a teenager the thing is when alcohol and drugs are involved if this is true of the rape i feel for her but its using your common sense you dont leave drinks unattended at all these women are adults they should take responsibility for themselves as well. The thing is you put yourself out there then sometimes trouble can arise ive never attended a rock concert i couldnt

[@wanderingtear8882]

Till never touched her. And Shelby was taking Lexapro and she drank Tequila and Prosecco that combination was the reason she felt spiked.

[@TheGenbox2]

Perhaps now, 'we' can start to extract fact from media hyperbole and fiction. The title (imo) should now read 'How the case or Rammstein, exposed media hypocrisy and how to make a media hit. In other words, take someone's profile, and ride it for all you can, and f*** the truth. The fact that no SA was ever alleged (and all those woman coming forward was unsubstantiated hyperbole), yet the narrative has been a clamour of SA and unsubstantiated guilt, has all but drowned out reasonable critique.

[@angelicaloya7006]

These were false accusations!! Get a life

[@elijahgiter9559]

What I never understood is what these "fans" (male or female) think is going to happen? Your not exactly invited to a public party with your friends. You're picked at a concert to go back stage to hang with your idols. What do they think they want to do go to McDonald's and see a movie? Sexual assault is wrong in any case, but you gotta have some sense of what you are getting yourself into.

[@lucasballestin9085]

probably why they go after very young people, because they have not yet developed that awareness we later take for granted

[@Ausderkaribik]

The girls write to the organizer and ask to be invited. Some get invited while others do not. They are not actually picked!

[@lucasballestin9085]

@@Ausderkaribik Unless I'm missing something, you just described exactly what it means to get picked?

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@lucasballestin9085 It has also been said that someone walks around at the concert and see nice looking girls and then ask them if they want to attend the after party. I don't know how true that part is. What I do know is that Shelby and other girls sent in requests to an organizer on instagram in advance asking to be invited. That is how Shelby Lynn was chosen to attend the party. Her invitation stems from her asking to be invited. They did not find and pick her at he concert - in other words she went to the concert with an invitation given in advance to attend the party. She wasn't picked she asked for an invitation. There is a difference.

[@maria-melek]

@@AusderkaribikBut I’m sure she didn’t think it would end in the way it did or was going to be anything s*xual. I understand that I’m mean I guess the excitement of being at the concert really got to her that she wasn’t paying attention, but if I saw a group of the same sex as me all lined up for a after party that’s for an all male group I’d get tf out. But only she knows how it happened.

[@katekrylov]

Very interesting. But this way or that way, Ms.Lynn have achieved her goal: publicity!(all for it!) Certainly was noticed.

[@mowogfpv7582]

It is wrong to confuse a social media grooming opperation like the one that operated around Till Lindemann with the groupie culture of the 1970s and 80s. The women targeted by Makeeva mostly do not seem to have even been fans. They were just naive women that she found on instagram. Makeeva could just as easily have been recruiting for a fashion designer or a wealthy financier or a hollywood producer.

[@emperorofpluto]

“The scandal has been good for business” - the bump in sales etc is almost certainly due to the tour alone and nothing whatsoever to do with the allegations.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for watching and sharing your opinion with our community

[@SN-2.0]

Die Tour ist und war der Hammer! Es gibt weltweit nichts Vergleichbares ! Versuche doch mal Karten zu bekommen! ... von was redest du?

[@Ausderkaribik]

They went from 1.8 to 2.8 followers in one week plus sales of their albums have seriously sky rocketed! It's actually great!

[@sarahkrystal6989]

Those bruises are pritty bad!!

[@Ray-ld3mt]

I say innocent until proven guilty.

[@milfredcummings717]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmm5mJumrq6qoK8 😂

[@ruthuhl1969]

I agree so far, but the Guns'n Roses part unfortunately was that one "tasty" song and cover text taken out of context and misinterpreted.

[@MrJordiBaby]

And that album cover was shocking yes, but it was linked to what some album songs were about. By seeing the cover, I never thought they were promoting sexual assault.

[@ruthuhl1969]

@@MrJordiBaby Exactly, and I hated the cover, too, but this whole video part is just bad researched, or let's say, not at all.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@microwavedmetal]

Y’all are a disappointment 💀

[@inlakesh555]

And let's talk about the worldknown drugusers on stage... how do they get the stuff on tour? Never a policeraid.

[@justhannah3960]

I wish Shelby and all the other victims all the best. The hate they get will be intense and even the death threats don't surprise me any more. But I Hope they persevere. This can't go on.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. Sending you all the best

[@rachaelt8729]

Nothing has been proven, personally I think she’s similar to Amber Heard. Not all women are actually victims and as a who has been a victim of both SA& DA I don’t say this lightly.

[@Oskar23441]

What about the death threats against Lindemann and Rammstein fans??? You dont care about that, right? You should be ashamed of yourself. How do you know who the victim is in that case????

[@Nikkimorox1]

Justhannah, Shelby had a choice and chose to go the social media route to prosecute Till before there was even a trial. I always have to question someone's motive going online before gping to the police, especially when her bio says something along the lines of "the girl that was spiked at a Rammstein concert" Colonel Kurtz channel here on you tube have interviews with a few girls that were there at the concert with her, that were a lot more self aware and sober than she was.

[@annegretkasten6277]

This woman deserves all the hate because she is not a victim.

[@penelopeantzoulatou]

Honestly is anyone really surprised?

[@serenitygilles7064]

OMG you go to ANY after party or bar you will be pressured , possibly drugged for just asked for sex nowadays. FFS there is nail polish that turns colors when date rap drug is in your drink (those guys were genius.) Don't be stupid and go to after parties. Lastly Band after parties are for adult fun, if your not there for the drugs or sex, then leave.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence. Being invited to an aftershow party (and accepting the invitation) or requesting an invitation does not imply consent to engage in sexual acts. We do not support victim blaming, and believe that everyone deserves respect and safety, regardless of their choices. We also encourage respectful and constructive discussions in our comments section. To ensure that, we kindly request our community to follow our netiquette guidelines, available at the following link: p.dw.com/p/MF1G

[@sitrider077]

Dark side of Rock .. Really???

[@alexandriashaner9767]

Why are they surprised like this is something new?

[@kimber1911]

If the allegations are proven true and the imagery, lyrics, videos and so on truly match a monster behind the microphone, the most disgusting part of it all is the growing audience that accepts this behavior and pay for it to continue.

[@Ausderkaribik]

You are judging a person without any facts. I could write a long story about you that is unpleasant, nasty and vicious without ever meeting you. I could base it solely on your comment. Would that be fair, true or would it be right? Think about how easy it is for others to discriminate against a person without any evidence. Just so you know - no actual victims have come out and accused him of all that people are saying that he did.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Dear @doloreszumkeller7470, uhe user you are referring to spoke in the subjunctive tense in their comment and presented a situation in the case "if allegations are proven true". Whether this will happen in the future or not remains to be seen. So far, however, the user has not judged any individual. We kindly ask our community to treat each other with respect and create an environment where constructive exchange of opinions is possible. Thank you.

[@lost_josh]

It's a shame really... Being a groupie was one of the best jobs ever. What's wrong with today's world? ☹

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence. We do not support victim blaming, and believe that everyone deserves respect and safety, regardless of their choices.

[@Oskar23441]

Come back when you have found some evidence😘 shame on you!!!!

[@firesideshats]

What I find funny dw is that you have covered and help cover up sex abuse by people in german parliament want to talk about that?

[@SergioLopez-bd9gt]

Please check the interview of a fan that was there with Till too and with the trash talker girl that caused all this commotion

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Dear, @SergioLopez-bd9gt, we want you all to be able to engage in constructive debates, share stories and discuss our content. In order to have high-quality debates that are characterized by mutual respect, it is essential that you follow certain rules, outlined in DW's netiquette policy: p.dw.com/p/MF1G

[@DrFawke]

Im sorry but you guys clearly have no idea about rammstein. Christoph didnt „distance“ himself. He describes reality and that they are not as close as back in the days but he would want them to be again. You just speak of „men sexualising wemen“.. Do you even know how many wemen are sexualising rockstars and want to sleep with them? THATS where all of this comes from. Not the evil men. If there werent so many wemen prostituting themselves for those men then there wouldnt be a problem. Oh and btw shelbys case was immediatly dismissed by the police cause there wasnt even a single hint of a crime committed to her…

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Sorry you feel this way! We try to always bring you well-researched, quality journalism and unbiased content. You're happy to check out our other videos, maybe there's something there that you like.

[@jeanetteraichel8299]

Till is a poet and introverted. Perhaps he gets over his introvertedness by letting his form of anxiety by going way over the top and writing music that is a little shocking.

[@Veheloth]

Rock? This happens in all genres of music. Your agenda is quite clear.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us and our community.

[@Veheloth]

@@DWHistoryandCulture you took the darkest aspect of "the music industry" and put it all on rock. You do know that more of this happens at pop shows than rock or metal, right?

[@MurmilloTV1]

Warum berichtet ihr so tendenziös?

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for your feedback. Could you please elaborate on your question? We also kindly ask you to follow our netiquette guidelines by commenting in English so that our community can understand and engage. You can find our guidelines at the following link: p.dw.com/p/MF1G

[@MurmilloTV1]

@@DWHistoryandCulture People have a translator. You have a tendency to report discrimination against women but not against men. That's very biased for a public agency!

[@aspacsa1]

That is pure BS. Innocent girls yeah right!!

[@mherrma1]

Now, honestly and without any provocation or making fun of me unduly, please allow me one question: Who would listen to rock music that isn't personified by guys like Iggy, Mr Bowie, Lemmy, john, Paul, George and Ringo, Steven Tyler, Kid Rock, Manson, Iggy Pop or Till? Do you prefer actors and fictional texts? Never doubted that Till really likes s/m sex and domination games.. 10:35

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence.

[@Ausderkaribik]

@@DWHistoryandCulture Can you please name one instance where one single woman accused him of raping her violently? You seem to be of the opinion that he has been accused by one or more women of raping them. The woman Shelby clearly said 'he did not touch her"! Therefore, if I were you I would choose my words carefully as you represent the establishment DW!

[@mherrma1]

@@DWHistoryandCulture We do value different viewpoints, Mrs DeutscheWelle. But since we are already communicating, for which I would like to express my thanks, I would like to point out that in the s/m scene in particular, Rammstein has always been clearly listened to, sexual dominance, power games, etc. are absolutely normal and nothing bad. In addition, there is not the slightest indication of the slightest crime and there is no one who claims the opposite. Always was. But now it should be taboo without question 😜 I prefer self-reflected own opinions instead of picking one out of two possibilities and then repeating it canonically. I hate that, especially when used to cancel Marilyn Manson, Antwoord, R Kelly, Michael Jackson or whatever. What if sexual dominance is the only true satisfaction? In contrast, I find it rather scary that there are only sexless, equal, metrosexual consumers. Find those people scary and their thoughts, who where constantly repeating the big Agenda with ready-made standard opinions and just as widespread prejudices and condemnation of everything that deviates from their ready-made pigeonhole thinking, very intolerant and would find it better if I did not only subordinate my actual personal preferences to the mainstream, but exclusively my conscience. As until now. But it's becoming more and more like 1984 and the Thought Police. Thank you for the talk.

[@jacquelinemarie1016]

Till has songs about cannibalism and sleeping with a fictional brother...it's art. As for toxic culture....give me a break. Nothing wrong with consensual sex.

[@YGOMaster97]

this is a very short sighted view of the whole situation

[@jacquelinemarie1016]

@YGOMaster97 no it isn't lol.

[@YGOMaster97]

Misogyny and unconsensual sex are sadly normal in our society, cannibalism and incest are not.

[@WeWillAlwaysHaveVALIS]

​@@jacquelinemarie1016well said

[@lucasballestin9085]

the *whole* point is that the system that is allegedly in place inhibits consent.

[@Alexis-xn8tv]

Groupies have always been a thing in the Rock scene. I do not feel sorry for the women who went to the afterparty and were shocked, that they were asked for sex. If you are an empowered woman, you can stand up for yourself and leave & if you do not like the system of the whole groupie thing, simply do not go backstage or to row zero. How naive can one be? Did they think they were having a tea party oder Till wants to meet them because of their outstanding personality?? Everything except for rape or drugging someone without them knowing, is absolutely not to blame. There has nothing been legally proven yet, but the media & the press are destroying a mans life. Good for them for making profit out of the situation! #istandwithrammstein

[@ninachiflada]

And if that’s the case: Is hard to believe that a person would comeback as “sex is very important to me” when personifying the hardcore girl image and on a situation of proposing a one night stand or a quickie. I mean I have answered more like: “not today” Also, quite recently there’s been a case of a woman in England who made up a story and falsely accused some Asian men of SA her: It was all LIES. Some people are really mentally Ill. This too happens.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thanks for watching and sharing your opinion.

[@Alexis-xn8tv]

@@lemsip207 How exactly is this Lindemann's fault? It's not his fault if women have problems saying no and standing up for themselves. Women who know that they will quickly buckle in such situations should not go to rock stars' aftershow parties. It's that simple. You can't always come up with the "abuse of power" argument, that's not how it works. Women can't always put themselves in the victim role and blame men for everything. You also have to be able to take responsibility for yourself. Coming from a woman itself :)

[@mowogfpv7582]

The reason these women were naive is because they were selected to be naive. These were not groupies hanging around a stage door. They were random women on instagram who got messaged out of the blue by people working for Till. They mostly weren't even fans. Fangirls who did message Makeeva were sometimes told that this wasn't how this works and that she has to message you. They didn't want groupies. They wanted young and naive. Till's people were playing a numbers game. The women who weren't naive didn't accept the invites to the gigs.

[@MrsNanaBlue]

Always nice to give the fault to the "naive" and "weak" women.

[@flexparachute]

it’s a guy in show business probably with a lot of money. of course that there will be some “allegations“.

[@charlesoliviersdufaux6943]

I stand whit Rammstein

[@Oskar23441]

Me too brother❤

[@milfredcummings717]

You'd probably like this band too. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jIS8doWqr8iIbLs 😆

[@Deroliebe]

So simp over waiting to see what's the truth? Yikes.

[@PapierDeutscher]

It doesn't, it only shows the hysterical way of media accusations without proof. Literally like you wanna debate logically with an overly emotional women, welcome to the matriarchy.

[@jessecockrum5273]

These people probably just want a paycheck ot happens all the time

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for your comment. We kindly request that you maintain a respectful attitude towards the individuals featured in our videos in the comment section. Thank you.

[@logantawhiti55]

People need to do their own homework so they don't get into a unwanted situation, choice's people choose them wisely.

[@annegretkasten6277]

Exactly, Lindemann has now filed a complaint against this Kayla and against the press.

[@justintabatabai8063]

This is a non story, just a drunk groupie

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Dear, @justintabatabai8063, we want you all to be able to engage in constructive debates, share stories and discuss our content. In order to have high-quality debates that are characterized by mutual respect, it is essential that you follow certain rules, outlined in DW's netiquette policy: p.dw.com/p/MF1G

[@larsvaahlmar1784]

Sure, just go after rock and roll now too ... because there's been people who want to go to private parties and want to be bad but then they don't want to be bad, but then ... they like to be freaks but then they don't want to be freaks.

[@DWHistoryandCulture]

Thank you for sharing your perspective. While we value different viewpoints, it is important to differentiate between consensual activities and sexual violence. We do not support victim blaming, and believe that everyone deserves respect and safety, regardless of their choices.

[@larsvaahlmar1784]

Just to be clear, I am not advocating for non-consensual sex either. I'm just saying leave rock alone. There will always be someone pissed off at it and that's rock's nature. I don't want to blame anyone but I'm willing to bet both sides of this story are dodgy.

[@alexandriashaner9767]

I’m amazed that everyone ignores the liberal, non-traditional masculine aspects the band writes and fights for. Would a man of toxic masculinity write on subjects like queer identity, body image issues, and both the dominant AND submissive sides of men in sex? I don’t think so. The band members have even worn bondage gear, shared a kiss of LGBT support, and one of their songs from the latest album was about plastic surgery addiction. Yeah, they do still have the typical “manly” metal songs, but they have way more than that. Clearly, that element of their art is looked over, as they are judged too superficially. The fact that they’ve broken rules of being masculine presenting men was one thing that stood out to me.