Inside Rammstein's 'Row Zero' system: women speak out | DW News

Shelby Lynn was the first to speak up openly against Rammstein's Till Lindemann. Dozens of women followed her lead, alleging drink spiking, abuse of power and a system to get women to have sex with the band's singer. We speak with Shelby Lynn and Ieva Ziliute, two of the women who came forward against Rammstein's Till Lindemann, alleging drink spiking, abuse of power and a system to get women to have sex with Rammstein's singer Till Lindemann.
All allegations made by Shelby Lynn and Ieva Ziliute, and those raised by women online or in the press, have been sent to Rammstein’s lawyers for the right of reply. They did not respond within the deadline.
Subscribe: kzbin.info...
For more news go to: www.dw.com/en/
Follow DW on social media:
►Facebook: / deutschewellenews
►Twitter: / dwnews
►Instagram: / dwnews
►Twitch: / dwnews_hangout
Für Videos in deutscher Sprache besuchen Sie: / dwdeutsch
#Rammstein #TillLindemann #RowZero

[@lornestein7248]

To all who say Till is a famous star.. doesn't need to drug woman.. Please learn about NFL Football star Darren Sharper. He was rich and famous too - He's been sitting in prison since 2016 for 20 years for this exact crime but innocent "till" proven guilty they say.

[@awpetersen5909]

He didn t rape anyone!

[@lemsip207]

Yes it's about power and also so they don't remember anything so cannot kiss and tell.

[@wardaddy9910]

It is known that they will spike drinks. Even T.I. and his girlfriend were caught spiking someone's drink at a party. They will also do crazy things to people, record it, and blackmail them.

[@lemsip207]

@wardaddy9910 I am not sure if the others in the band did that or got someone in their entourage to do that for them. But I wouldn't put it past him either to get sex, for total control of a groupie so she will do anything he wants sexually, for a laugh or so the victims don't remember anything from his private parties so they don't kiss and tell. Shelby Lynn said that her memory of the evening was sketchy, and that flashbacks of it came later, so it was quite likely that her drink was spiked. She saw footage of herself on Row 0 just after the pre party and was shocked, saying it was out of character for her. She couldn't remember being drunk just before the concert started but remembered suddenly feeling ill during the concert and at the interval under the stage. It is not surprising that the bystanders came forward instead of the victims as the latter were probably drugged. Kayla Shyx was a bystander at an after-party rather than victim. One bystander from the feuerzone at the Cardiff concert in 2022 came forward after noticing bizarre behaviour among the Row 0 girls who had attended the pre party after they returned from it. She said they weren't the same afterwards.

[@nicholassharp3799]

And now it's been dropped, no evidence, wow.....

[@dpharr100]

I'm pretty sure partying with rockstars has never been safe

[@MrMatthiasSchneider]

This sounds like victim blaming.

[@GentlemanJack705]

I think, to an extent, as a young female, given the prior communications with the band's team, you have to take some responsibility for your own actions.

[@dpharr100]

@@MrMatthiasSchneider a cautionary tale

[@MetallicReg]

@@MrMatthiasSchneider this sounds more like a regular swinger party as it is common and standard for the last 50 years.

[@melanynadine972]

That's prejudice and it does sounds like victim-blaming.

[@kelzuya]

He always looked like such a sweet innocent man.

[@shannonslack4500]

There's no evidence lol,take it from somebody who used to work in court,They are lying.

[@mauritsbol4806]

People dont get when people make a joke. Look at him😂

[@JunoDiovonaDemihof]

@@shannonslack4500 "take it from somebody who used to work in court" ... and U, of course are telling the truth...please! go sit down

[@Blodhelm]

@@shannonslack4500 Janitors don't usually impress anybody with their knowledge of the law.

[@olgfried3630]

lol

[@zaprude]

This is not just a Rammstein issue. This is so common in the live music/concert/festival scene. And especially in the rock/industrial/goth scene which has such a constant love affair with romanticizing violence, abuse and submissive/opressed women. I think men - especially of power - definitely take advantage of that. I wish this was more openly discussed within those genres!

[@NF-ru8on]

I feel like there is a precursor to that in Rock 'groupy' culture

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

YES Which is why I left that scene far behind me. Too many deviants that are attracted by this and ruin it for people who like the art or the fashion

[@alexanderhowarth6460]

@@AgeOfGoldenSilence pretty sure that it's prudish weirdos that are spoiling the parties for the rest of us

[@trotgun1563]

that sounds more like rap 2 me !

[@Lock484]

Marilyn Manson has left the chat 😱

[@GaiaCarney]

Other women criticize SA victims most harshly 😔 ‘look what she wore’ ‘she should have known’ ‘she asked for it’ Cruel & disappointing

[@mrg4388]

Yeah that woman at 7:12 is awful.

[@ricardocabrera8344]

"look at how they walk" like, wtf .

[@helenivanova5440]

@@user-cs8qq5vt4v we should, because their victimblaming words help sexual violence increase and thrive.

[@helenivanova5440]

They try to convince themselves that it would never happen to them because they do everything right unlikely those victims,so they want to feel safe, but in reality they make the probability of being raped higher by supporting the rapists.

[@iLilith11]

I can't believe 😪 in Berlin... wtf

[@c22madkat21]

So the gist is: Till throws a sex party, girls attend, some say no, he accepts that, other have sex and then years later realize that was dumb. Some of them then say they must have been drugged because they would never do that, don't remember much from the time, yet go on to quote verbatim what they said to their friends. Fishy!

[@Alexzander19736]

'Don't remember what happened" and come to this allegation weeks/months later only bcoz 1 person told this on insta and other say iit was the same for them ? Sure, i want more LIKES too so i made up things. Told i was abducted by aliens and got from 80 to 500 followers. but were they just curious or mocking me? I don't know and never will know, I dont have Insta :D

[@nataliem4029]

I wish other women would stop victim blaming. I understand it's because they don't wanna believe that someone they like would do something they don't approve of, therefore they blame the girls. It's not right. I don't want to believe it but I'm not gonna blame the girls/victims.

[@Dickstick]

Cool trendy buzz words you use

[@marcel_kleist]

@@Dickstickbeta detected.

[@marcel_kleist]

@@MarcR10 because they are usually under 20 which is pretty young to have children.

[@BalkanMode]

In that case, can men continue with the “victim blaming”? Lindemann seems to be the victim here.

[@naverno]

I wish you would stop spreading libel.

[@mayav7751]

Terrible. I like the band but he should be held accountable. Asking a woman for sex is ok, spiking her drink? NOT. I hate the victim blaming as well. Blame should be solely focused on the perpetrator

[@canalmaster9829]

another clown

[@gwen2745]

they are innocent until proven guilty. look at that woman I wouldn't be surprised if she was sometimes in a state of psychosis. women are believed too quickly.without proof, the allegations are lies

[@the.rambling.chipper]

After the exact point at which guilt has been irrevocably proven, of course.

[@Pennywise-hn5qw]

You know that he never do something..there was no victim

[@Pennywise-hn5qw]

You know that he didnt do anything?? Mrs.Lynn cant be serious, she a psycho😢

[@TinLeadHammer]

"Some young girls don't understand what is their purpose in this party" - 😮

[@iLilith11]

Some men don't understand that they are about to be held accountable 😮

[@pedrolopes3542]

When someone says they are evil, believe them. I am a good fan of ramsteins songs and also a good fan of die antwoord, that does not mean I think those singers are good people, I know they are not, but I like their songs anyway. Wagner was personally a great composer, yet a very troublesome man in accordance to contemporary norms

[@anmnou]

Thank you! I just wrote something in a similar vein.

[@Winstonrodney6989]

I generally don’t find any problem separating the songs from the musicians. Too many people like to worship their idols though. I’ve been guilty of that in the past but these days I refuse to heap praise on certain musicians just because I like the music.

[@dirtydemon1234]

Been a Rammstein fan for years, love all their music, but if we’re being honest here, Till has always overstepped boundaries a little, and I think it’s say to say there’s a little more to the guy then we know, he isn’t like the other Rammstein members, and well, we all know he loves women, hope this isn’t true though

[@spacegerrit9499]

I think "a little" might be a little bit of an understatement...

[@mikicerise6250]

But people love him anyway, or because.

[@maryreid4273]

If anyone can commit rape (and I say if because nothing is proven at this point, but there is equally no reason not to believe these women), then they do not love women - they hate them!

[@agnesagni]

@@mikicerise6250how many of those people would undergo his "treatment", get drugged, be abused by this monster? Well, those who do could line up for him in row zero next time.

[@mikicerise6250]

@@agnesagni Lock him away like Cosby. But do ban conjugal visits.

[@marcel_kleist]

That East German dialect makes the women that victim blame the girls even more unlikeable. Not that East German German is bad, but I hear it way to much paired with outlandish stuff like this.

[@Cosmosisification]

You're literally the lead singer of one of the most famous bands in history. Just put something out that says "Hi I'm Lindemann and I travel too much to keep a steady relationship unfortunately, so I'm open for casual hookups". Thousands of hot rocker women would immediately jump in his inbox. Why all the cloak and dagger and sexual assault 🙄🙄🙄

[@IEPerez1994]

Its all about the power in the end. Pretty much what leads me to believe this, as it’d be easier to fulfill his sexual deviancy naturally

[@undertow2142]

Bc it’s not just about getting laid. It would seem the power and non consensual sexual abuse were a big part.

[@tajmajal4197]

Hope nobody among your close female friends and relatives are among those women.

[@yasminesteinbauer8565]

@@tajmajal4197 Because you can only have compassion for people from your personal environment?🤔

[@MrMatthiasSchneider]

Apparently he likes the whole systematic cattle call approach... ugh.

[@stephenwilcockson3498]

Been a fan of rammstein for such a long time. I'm shocked and gutted. I hope it isn't true. It's sad how they're blaming the women in this.

[@Intothelight1981]

Bro, you're shocked and gutted when he is accused of abusing women? How do you think that could not be possible? I would say it's a certainty, especially when he showed no reservation or basic human decency, while simulating anal sex on stage and then simulated ejaculation all over the crowd. Does this regularly performed display of perversion not shock or gut you? Are you living in the twilight zone?

[@alvaro701]

​@@lisapet160You're sick dude

[@Notinthere]

yes you should be shocked by the circumstance that you have been fooled. these stories were set up to ruin rammstein and especially till lindemann financially.

[@NF-ru8on]

Ofcourse it's true. It's not really a 'unique' occurrence in that kind of context. It happens in Rock, Metal, Hip Hop, EDM even. Not only that, but for many ppl, especially an older gens, this is actually 'normalized' as just what happens in Sex Drugs & RockNRoll babyyyy

[@jakovbrizic]

true, you say? well the authorities disagree with you

[@retro000]

I am a Rammstein fan, I love their performances and talent. I do however feel skeptical about Till as he has always openly been overly suggestive, and it's part of his show and distaste and disregard. I think it's probably gone to his head and feels entitled just as he can control his pyrotechnics,he can't switch off women and quieten them. I personally couldn't let him do what he wanted to me, although can claim I have partied hard, and one wonders where the boundaries are. It's a lifelong known thing people go backstage. The groupies and from antics with the Rolling Stones etc etc. I'd be very surprised if sex wasn't involved, although nonconsensual is totally abusive.

[@mryouben]

Who would have thought that Mr. Lindemann has somewhat of a deviant sexual behavior?

[@blackpillrising3164]

They don’t call it, “sex, drugs and rock n roll “ for nothing.

[@MrMatthiasSchneider]

Yeah, SEX, drugs and rock n roll, not rape, drugs and rock n roll - hopefully you understand the difference.

[@blackpillrising3164]

@@___-..-___ probably goes back to around 70 years ago. Actually “rock n roll” is a metaphor for knockin’ boots.

[@blackpillrising3164]

@@___-..-___ well ian dury and the blockheads wrote a song called sex and drugs and rock n roll. Soo..

[@blackpillrising3164]

@@___-..-___ well, perhaps.

[@AllKindzzzz]

Ah it's totally fine then, no worries, accusations dropped!

[@jahjahjah213]

Do not be distracted. The only ethical thing to do in such situations is wait to hear both sides, let the court system decide who is guilty, and then you decide if you agree or not based on the arguments.

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

This!!

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

Yes Yes as young women we cant dress nicely, we cant have a favourite artist we would like to meet because our ONLY purpose and expectation must be to be sexual objects. We must at all times maintain a squeaky clean exterior and always be weary of the situations we put ourselves in, even in public. We cant have drinks at a party, as they might be spiked either, and if we had one or two and something happens expect to be shamed for having a life and fun 🖕

[@user-qv9bi9sj9k]

No one is forcing you to go to parties. For anything you do there are risks involved. That’s called being human. If you can’t accept the risks then maybe just don’t do such things instead of running around blaming the world.

[@rendem8458]

It should also be clearly stated that the Lithuanian police and prosecutor's office did not open an investigation into the case, although the facts of the case were carefully examined. This case has been in the ping-pong game of social media and newspapers, which have already carried out a kind of pre-judgement. It is very strange how one-sided the reporting is here. There are also enough witnesses from "Row Zero" and the after-show parties who cannot report any suspicious events.

[@maxischlag5816]

As a man, i want to underline that how someone looks is no excuse for ones action. We are not animals…the perpetrator is responsible for the crime, not the victim. Support to the strong women standing up and breaking the silence!

[@monster2slayer]

correct. a victim is not to blame for a crime. nonetheless everyone bears a responsibility for their own safety. should you have to lock your house? no. should you? yes.

[@IceQueenaliasIQ]

The thing is, a person might get attracted to looks, and they might even take action and go ask the good-looking person out or sth. No problem in that, I think. But if the attractive person says no, this must be respected. There is no justification for any kind of behavior that does not respect the other person's will or - as presumably in the case of Rammstein - that creates a situation in which the other person has a hard(er) time to express their will freely.

[@gorillaguerillaDK]

@@monster2slayer There’s a huge difference between someone breaking in to your house to steal something, and sexual assault - you can’t compare the two! Victims of sexual assault isn’t necessarily the ones who dress sexy - sexual assault is less about actual sex, and far more about power!

[@mochalo4912]

maybe they are wh*res , wanted some fame and money but didn"t get it so they suing him now

[@monster2slayer]

@@gorillaguerillaDK its not even about how you dress, but about willingly going into unnecessarily risky situations. thats why the lock analogy applies

[@nicholassharp3799]

And now look, no evidence and charges dropped, you can all apologize to Till.

[@robertdowns1965]

I would like to point out that this type of thing is NOT new. A few examples: Van Halen had a system of marking the gates in front of the stage 1-10 a band member could easily signal a roadie to make sure a pass was given to lets say "Blonde #4". Def Leopard had a long history of below and side stage sex with women during band members solos. I personally know touring bands (NOW) that have passes for backstage persons who wish to engage in sex with a band member. RIGHT/WRONG? I am glad that Shelby spoke up, and she absolutely deserves the respect any fan should get from her band. Honestly, I think the band actually feels worse for this terrible experience, bands DO love their fans and know they are NOTHING without their support.

[@maryreid4273]

It's shocking to hear those other ladies almost victim blaming - they shouldn't dress a certain way, get tickets for a certain row or be on social media? That is ridiculous. Of course innocent until proven guilty still stands, however the victims claims also need to be taken seriously. I hope they also get support overcoming this, no matter how strong they are!

[@ranndino]

That's not really what the their main point was. They said they're adults and should know that happens at rock star after parties. I don't see what's controversial about that. It's just common sense but these days people seem to get offended by reality and pretend they're innocent little sheep. It's like they never watched a single movie about rock stars. Sex, drugs and rock-'n'-roll. Does that phrase ring a bell.

[@mikicerise6250]

Yeah, um, rape can't happen in rock star after parties. It's kind of illegal.

[@maryreid4273]

@@ranndino these women are not claiming to be innocent, nor are they claiming shock at some of the things which happen at after parties, including taking drugs and/or sexual encounters. The point is that the drug taking and the sex should be consensual and nobody should be using their fame/power to coerce someone into a situation - there is suggestion of people having their drinks spiked (so non-consensual drug taking) which also suggests that somebody wants to encourage the victim to do things which they would normally say no to. 'Sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll' is all good and well, but is all needs to be consensual - that doesn't seem to be the case here. I hope you now understand why this is victim shaming.

[@erikitter6773]

​@@ranndino Being nonconsensually drugged and sexually assaulted is not part of the party experience. Also wondering why some of those women blaming the victims (with the numbers and consistencies and parts confirmed it is pretty much clear there are victims, just not clear there are criminal cases) assume they could not have been the victims. Contrary to orange ape logic being a type isn't necessary for becoming a victim, and that is before rapists having different types if any. Listening to any Rammstein will be spoiled for at least a while. Maybe I will just remove them completely, not sure. Spending any money directly (if listening in some forms money would flow) is certainly not an option for me any time soon.

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

Not just almost. Definitely vitim shame and blame

[@tajmajal4197]

Start the investigation immediately!

[@HotZetiGer]

REAL Super Dry, the PRIVATE PARTY invitation should be like: Drinks & Orgy

[@user-ut9uq4zu5f]

I was at the Aftershow party at the Lindemann tour and I was safer than anywhere else and everything was amazing❤❤❤Till is amazing and great person and a real Gentleman...

[@LittleImpaler]

I don't care if it's Til Lindemann. If he broke the law. It's not ok.

[@themusers03]

Dude looks like the real herman munster 😂

[@floatingsara]

Are comments being moderated? I wrote a comment yesterday and cannot find it anymore.

[@zigniingiz]

Qlways loved ramstein they have always been one of my fav bands even if I don't understand it all but iya bad that this is a serious problem

[@Bultish]

Are DW and all other media prepared to put as much energy to, in the case of a court of law ruling him innocent, make tha effort to broadcast that message so to equalise the the effect of this allegations have?

[@bojanm986]

She really looks like she doesn't take any drugs all the time. And also she doesn't remember anything except telling Till couple of times that she doesn't want sex. Anyway, not my problem, hope the truth will be found.

[@brycepardoe658]

Spiking drinks is predatory behaviour.

[@vonholtz4468]

Criminal and inexcusable.

[@shannonslack4500]

Proof of it happening??

[@capsbr2100]

These girls take drugs normally, they decide to get intimate with such famous men and not have sex. Total bs.

[@frankyboy1131]

​@@shannonslack4500The statement as such about legality is independent of any case happening. So what's your objection?

[@Alexzander19736]

@@shannonslack4500 No proof while she filmed on and on, except at the afterparty. Why would she not 'tictok' there?

[@matthewbaynham6286]

I'm glad the police are investigating, but I'm sure they will be looking for more than just what these women have said. Because there must be someone who actually spikes the drinks and someone who buys the drugs to spike the drinks. You never know the theory that these women are just after attention might be true. But by comparing every detail of peoples stories the police should be able to cross reference and workout which side of the story is true. It'll be interesting to see who the police come up with.

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

Indeed.

[@Alaskan-Armadillo]

I really appreciated Christoph Schneiders response to this. If found guilty Till needs serious help.

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

No if found guilty he needs JAIL and help. Who needs help are the victims first, if this is true

[@jonahscher-zagier8196]

Sometimes squeaky clean, charming people commit the worst misdeeds. And sometimes, perhaps more often, what you see is exactly what you get. A musician who reveled in his public persona as a sexually creepy person, who sang about rape all the time, turned out to actually be who he looked like. Why should anyone be surprised?

[@christiankanika2039]

I was asking my self the same thing. What he did was wrong but sometimes what you see is what you get. Dont know what the girls thing is gonna happen when they go to a rock stars private party/after party. The concept of a groopie is nothing new. If I would be on a concert of lets say Tina Turner and she picks me out from the crowd... or even better I actively seek to be on the party to meet her. And then during the party she invites me specifically from all the people to her room. I know whats happening. I am not a doctor of science to know what the aim of a guy like him is with girls. What he did was wrong. Is it shocking to anyone who listened to the band and his texts in the past? Seems the girl wanted something but didnt think good enough what is the other side of the coin.

[@jonahscher-zagier8196]

@christiankanika - I fear you have misunderstood my comment. It is directed at the fans who act shocked and disbelieving about these allegations, not at the women whom he allegedly harassed and assaulted. I do not fault them for thinking that they could meet their favorite singer without being randomly propositioned, to say nothing of having their drinks tampered with or simply assaulted, as some others have alleged.

[@j.erickson8571]

Don't forget his poems about a specific drug used against a woman. We cannot make this stuff up. He is confessing his criminal behavior. Whether they find evidence or not is up to the authorities. Sooner or later, someone will come forward with hard evidence if not intimidated by his team of lawyers sending letters.

[@lemsip207]

Yet he claims they are just satire. Not all Rammstein fans would have read his poems or watched his solo project videos and live performances. I watched the Rammstein videos and they were so fast paced it's difficult to spot much in them unless you keep pausing the video.

[@AurediumRiptide]

Its a pretty difficult case. On one hand Rammstein's theme's and their success as a band make them a target. On the other side music does come from the heart and it might mean that maybe Till did do things that are just wrong. I can't possibly judge from here but I trust that the legal system will get to the bottom of it. It does seem that its not really Rammstein but more Till that is under scrutiny in this case. It seems the band and the record label are willing to defend Till indicating they believe in his innocence. If worse comes to worse it would mean a serious dent in Rammstein as a band and they might need a new lead singer.

[@sa.t.2507]

06:02 that is some good acting right there.

[@canalmaster9829]

That is not good acting, it's clear from first few seconds she is lying without shame, wanted sex with till lindemann but got rejected and then going vendetta mode.

[@sa.t.2507]

@@canalmaster9829 yeah right, it looks so natural 🤣

[@djtomoy]

This is the least surprising news ever.

[@Federico.el.Noruego]

You cant be a Fanboy or fangirl and just not "Believe" there women they seem Very Honest

[@annegretkasten6277]

She ist lying.

[@sorinancuta3934]

Wow!So many "true" fans here who can deny everything.berlusconni also said he didn.t pay any woman for sex.should it be true?!to be honest,i won.t be surprised from a 60 years old guy....

[@petterbirgersson4489]

Men with power/prestige/money are more likely bad than not.

[@bosorot]

David Copperfield did the same thing. Man + Money + Power

[@Alexzander19736]

Also happened to Elvis.

[@thomaswade3072]

Rock stars, using/abusing drugs and sex. Shocking. Utterly shocking I tell ya.

[@jrrarglblarg9241]

What’s next, salad with lettuce in it? Shocking.

[@EMSpdx]

This bit. At this point, I am not surprised. Utterly foul, but not surprised anymore.

[@xenoneuronics6765]

What's next, models doing coke and sleeping with the photographer?

[@MetalGearyaTV]

Not just drugs and sex. How would you like spiked drinks and rape?

[@YBM2007]

@@MetalGearyaTV yeah, drugged to the point of remembering every little detail. not sus at all

[@aenorist2431]

We are all very shocked by people with too much power and very obvious brain damage doing bad things.

[@user-ut9uq4zu5f]

Easy rules - if you don't want to do something or you are not sure that you want it don't go there...if those girls regret that they have had a sex with Till why have they been there...what did they expect...guys there is no party without alcohol, fun and sex...and each of us can choose and take desicion " I will do that or not, I will take it or not"...just to be clear, any person, absolutely any person over the age of 18 is responsable for its actions and those girls - false victims also...

[@KVuong-rv2hs]

In dark times, I want to be with someone who has much character, not with anyone who has only talents. Rammstein's music and art are purely remarkable that we can choose to enjoy, but at the end of the day, being a and being with a good characteristic person is most important. Time has changed for the good. Being a rock star does not spell getting easy sex like in the early years of Rock.

[@pauldickson3455]

You get invited to the front row as a girl for a reason

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

And for what reason exactly. If it is that clear just write it on the damn invitation. Women make up half the population, they can be fans too, want to meet the artists too, and so on. If the exchange is sex or even getting drugged (!) that should be clear. This whole “its clear if you are smart logic” only protects predators and creates unnecessary risk where transparency could create consent and safety

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

And a big yes to OC!

[@lemsip207]

​@@pauldickson3455Or maybe just to look the part and nothing more.

[@Jeudaos]

I don't always believe allegations. But victim blaming is abhorrent. And when it's SO MANY individuals that come forward. That's not bandwagoning

[@Alexzander19736]

One woman started this, other thinking ... hope there is footage I was there so ...

[@batsy3]

unreal and terrible situation for these women. so disappointing to find people you appreciate are actually so pathetic

[@JonasPrudas]

You are jealous

[@MrSean03839]

So she went to a party before meeting Linderman? If someone was spiking drunks at a party they should be prosecuted. She said she told him no sex when she finally met him and he left. I'm confused by the story.

[@00nigirimeshi]

It's describing a system where women are lined up and "prepared" (speculation is through drugs) to be out of it enough that when they are in front of him that they can't refuse/ are easily cooerced since they lack orientation while on drugs. The thought is that even if someone else spiked her drink, this is part of the system to get girl "ready" for him to exploit.

[@MrSean03839]

@@00nigirimeshi That's hard to say, probably impossible to legally prove. From what she said she was partying at some event Lindemann was not even at. When she did meet him the first thing she said was no sex and he left. So I'm not seeing any legal exposure for Lindemann with that. She is actually giving evidence that he did nothing wrong. Now if her drink was spiked at a party you would need proof of that through toxicology reports at the time. Or a witness would need to come forward with evidence, otherwise there is no case. This is why we have courts and require evidence in a court. Otherwise anyone can say anything about anyone.

[@00nigirimeshi]

@@MrSean03839 There was an organized pre-show party. Here girls were given drinks. There have been numerous accounts of girls talking about how they felt out of it. Then they were confronted with a situation in which they were expected to perform. In Shelbys case she managed to keep a grip despite feeling off. That is the allegation. Ofc it's almost impossible to prove bc all the evidence is long gone and nobody involved in organizing these extra parties (separate from the official Rammstein parties) will be talking bc why should they get themselves in an uncomfortable and possibly money loosing position.

[@michaelgoetze2103]

@@00nigirimeshi There is always someone with a grievance ready to spill the beans.

[@ninachiflada]

The story is incomprehensible. In a normal conversation even if one night stand is thrown in your face, one usually says hello and exchange a few looks/hints… but I dunno. Another thing is why the other women who were at her side all the event are not interviewed?? Just to have more insights. 🤨

[@ismimiokumaktazamankaybetm5939]

the amount of npcs that are just willing to fully accept what this alleged victim is claiming and labeling lindemann a criminal without any actual solid evidence is concerning.

[@MetalGearyaTV]

u r a fanboy

[@MetalGearyaTV]

btw do u have any evidence for him being innocent? u don't. and btw this is old news. Till is known as a sick vile person.

[@canalmaster9829]

@@MetalGearyaTV 🤡

[@YBM2007]

this is pretty spot on

[@zapador]

It's about time that laws are introduced that make it illegal to publicly accuse someone of a crime. With the internet it's become way too easy for such accusations to spread like wildfire and do real damage even when it later turns out not to be true.

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

There is this thing called slander and its a criminal offence. We do not want a society where powerful people can just do as they please. Believe me, people will wait for the results of this investigation. Real fans will want to know. Its a fine line, yes, but with this degree of fame and visibility comes a very high level of power. And there is no real way of keeping that in check. If somebody who has lets say 5 million followera says, Nope, did not do that, the first person who states otherwise will not be believed. The second one also wont be. It takes 40+ broken lives for people to accept that there is a pattern in need of investigating. R Kelly comes to mind. Or that other sitcom comedian who spiked drinks. Or freaking Harvey Weinstein, the king of abuse who got caught on tape. But lets wait what the investigation brings.

[@lemsip207]

​​​@@AgeOfGoldenSilenceSlander is not a criminal offence. It is a civil one and more difficult to prove than libel.

[@mackenziemoore5088]

A Rammstein sex scandal was definitely not on my 2023 bingo card. I hope all these victims are getting the support they need :(

[@SungazerDNB]

Spurious allegations and conjecture! I don't believe one bit of it.

[@reddix435]

What if Rammstein is the victim?

[@shannonslack4500]

Alleged victims!!!!

[@mikicerise6250]

A sex scandal is a salacious affair. This is a rape case.

[@Corsetdollx]

I know it would happen. There were so many threads on reddit for years about Row 0 and Groupies.

[@Io-Io-Io]

The case was dismissed in Vilnius. Done

[@fralemieux]

excellent reporting. thank you also to all the women who shared their stories.

[@emilycohan]

+1

[@MetallicReg]

None are proven. Absolutely none - so right now it is pre-judging which is illegal in Germany.

[@emilycohan]

@@MetallicReg - Sounds like you like to protect predators.

[@MetallicReg]

@@emilycohan Nope, I like to protect the law and its misuse for drama.

[@smartalecc]

ok but has someone claimed Till Lindemann directly sexually assaulted them?

[@frankyboy1131]

Roofies, or Flunitrazepam, as this drug is called, has memory failiures as a side effect. That's the mean thing about it.

[@smartalecc]

Right but the story focused on how Till Lindemann heard a girl say no and then didn’t touch her. Yes there were drugs (not seemingly administered by Till) and yes he wants to sleep with women on a conveyor belt (I’m not at all surprised), but this story suggested he actually respects consensuality to some degree. I don’t have an agenda here just trying to understand what the depth of the allegations are

[@sandravd8841]

@@frankyboy1131 drinking alcohol while being on antidreppressants causes the same side effect. Shelby was on antideppressants, she said it herself. I'm not saying spiking couldn't have happened, I'm just saying there's no proof she had those drugs in her system.

[@24meandyounothing]

Proof ?

[@Superratis]

Yikes, I am going to see them tomorrow and it might be one of their last concerts if he gets prosecuted

[@LathropLdST]

Plus one. I was going to the Budapest concert in 2 weeks...

[@gr00vechamp]

Better hope the police do not have physical evidence. Ego driven monsters like to take videos of their conquests. I hope this is not true but if it is.....

[@manus8323]

What a sick mentality from the couple and the older German lady DW interviewed. Victim blame at its best.

[@agat882]

The thing is - you should not trust blindly any side. For now - it is just accusations. Could it be done to slander, damage reputation, extort money, push some agenda? Ofcourse! Until it would be proven in court, with undeniable evidences and beyond any doubt - it is just accusations and nothing more. And they are not victims, but rather persons, that claimed, that they are. We should not jump to conclusions and take sides, and treat both sides humanely and with due compassion, keeping in mind, that they both can be victims, or liars, for all we know. Look at Johnny Depp example...

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

Well, things can be ambiguous. But to this day, if somebody is even a proven offender (with messages, videos, endless array of victims), they get often defended AFTER the fact. But lets wait and see what comes up.

[@off-roadnpew2183]

I hate when I drink something a stranger gives me and it’s spiked

[@MagnumInnominandum]

Who is shocked?

[@kingofdevils]

Is it just his fault or is it the rape culture that allows him to do that sort of thing and blame the victim

[@wokeaf1337]

the rape culture in the music business

[@lemsip207]

​@@wokeaf1337He is part of it.

[@wokeaf1337]

@@lemsip207 Obviously not, he was acquitted.

[@killamaita]

Shelby Lynn is a hero and an example of what a human person shoul be like!

[@Gunhed507]

Last time I checked we still had the presumption of innocence in Germany. Even for men.

[@cameron6770]

Last time I checked we still had freedom of the press in Germany. Even for alleged victims of sexual assault. Reporting on alleged sexual assault claims isn't defamatory just because you like the accused. 🤷‍♂️

[@yasminesteinbauer8565]

Last time I checked, people are free to share their personal experiences.

[@Dickstick]

@@cameron6770 Last time I checked accusing people of something that in the end turns out to never have happened is also a crime in Germany. Time will tell. "Innocent until proven guilty" still is a thing, you know? A court has to decide, not you or your politically motivated mob.

[@MetalGearyaTV]

@@Dickstick 'presumption of innocence' is for courts and punishment system only. People can have their own opinions without referring to courts or anybody else. And btw, the cases of MJ and OJ telling us court decisions can be very-very wrong.

[@YBM2007]

@@MetalGearyaTV Revisionism, the case against MJ was total dogsh*t. Let the police do what they have to do and investigate the Till allegations and then we'll see

[@val-xo7ud]

He told her to line up and she did it willingly.

[@aquilesboy198]

si se ve que es un buen tipo

[@Fcjr02]

Not saying he’s not wrong but we as people have to make better decisions to protect ourselves. 2:36 why after throwing up and not feeling ok did she not leave. And I’ve never been back stage but is it normal to get drinks from a concert in Europe?

[@linusfotograf]

Of course there are drinks backstage. Bands get free drinks and hand them to guests

[@0fficialdregs]

leave that iconic band alone!!!

[@Io-Io-Io]

The accuser lied. Just search youtube

[@philiphayes9834]

and she siad no, noting happened. Well thats the end of that one.

[@krimimimi]

should take that video down, honestly. sl just got exposed for drugging herself and mixing a ton of alcohol. all just made up to blame other for her own mistakes.

[@SamirYare-oq7xe]

I don't believe everything this reporter is saying

[@Fanghurst]

I keep hearing that the drinks served are sealed and are opened in front of everyone. There are other women at the party that said Shelby was acting odd before they got taken below stage. I look forward to seeing what the investigation uncovers.

[@IEPerez1994]

I guess its natural to want to believe otherwise, but they’re credible accounts from different women. No need to go out of you way to defend him

[@tajmajal4197]

U a hard-core fan, eh?

[@Fanghurst]

@IEPerez1994 , innocent until proven guilty but in this day and age I could see it happening.

[@MrMatthiasSchneider]

You're talking about two different parties. The Rammstein drummer alleges that the drinks at the official Rammstein party were sealed. Till Lindemann's parties were separate from the official band parties.

[@penguinista]

If you listen to what she said at 1:40, the pre-show party was where she got drugged, so it makes sense that her behavior was already off by the concert. In fact, that is why they show the footage at the concert.

[@4nc13nt]

I mean isn't this what groupies are all about? Southpark had an episode about groupies...

[@FromDesertTown]

Some of us saw this coming. We'd heard about this behavior before. Till is not the "wholesome family man" that his cult wants to believe. It's not uncommon for rock stars to take advantage of society's expectations that young women want to throw themselves naked at them after concerts, but drugging and psychological manipulation is not the norm. Any and all alleged crimes that are proven beyond reasonable doubt certainly need to be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible under the law.

[@lalocompi]

I´m confused. You said "alleged crimes that are proven beyond reasonable doubt". Are you able to explain that contradiction? Further more, 6 dumb people liked it. No wonder why is a debate where there are not sufficient evidence to establish probable cause in this case.

[@jasonkocher3513]

I mean, he wrote a song called "Skills in Pills"... lol.

[@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc]

It is always troubling when people blame the victim. Those women look totally credible, on top of it. To say that what R did was wrong and disappointing is an understatement. No tolerance for such behavior, and justice better open up a can of whoopass against sexual predators.

[@liquidsnake6879]

Justice has to prove an accusation before opening cans of anything on anyone.

[@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc]

@@liquidsnake6879 Apparently, not everyone believes that, especially when the victim is blamed for exercising her rights. No, means no, so I hope you understand that as well.

[@JorgeGarcia-lw7vc]

@@liquidsnake6879 And btw, anyone making false accusations should face as well a very strong can of legal whoopass.

[@thefisherking78]

I'd just like to be clear that only one member of the band has been accused in this. They have pretty much separate lives offstage, and have for years.

[@Ragtags]

I don't think reserving judgment is blaimg the victim. Granted you didn't explicitly say that.

[@HandsomePutin]

They know exactly what's going on from the second some rich dude hits you up online and invites you. You line up? Pictures? Dude........this has happened a TRILLION times in history it's not illegal, it's a bit messy but not illegal to line women up and be vulgar in communication and straightforward. 😂😂😂 Oh my gosh None of the things here other than drink spiking is illegal women just will NOT take responsibility for their choices

[@Dickstick]

Victim blaming at it finest. How dare you to assume that adult women can make their own choices? Also those women got picked because of their unique personalities, no other reason!

[@johndeerno8870]

line up like cattle then get surprised when treated like meat....

[@MrMatthiasSchneider]

Yeah, they obviously DIDN'T know what was going on, as many of them have stated. You sound like bad news, whoever you are.

[@pluviophile._.j]

Who hurt you? I hope you can move on from this hateful approach. Nobody deserves being used as a human flashlight, no matter how naïve or young you are, are you even listening to yourself...I hope you can find love because right now you don't seem to have any, or empathy for that matter.

[@lemsip207]

​@@DickstickOr just to be decorations.

[@odysseusmaximus]

Well... We also liked RC Kelly once too :(

[@AllKindzzzz]

Lost prophets were also extremely popular and now the name is hard to even type out.

[@sfu-uo7wz]

Is anyone actually & really surprised by this?!

[@dax4812]

No. There are people who are not suprised of accusing rock stars of abuse for instagram likes.

[@frankyboy1131]

​@@dax4812And there are ppl with common sense who are not surprised about sexual assaults perpetrated by a member of a band that shows pornography on stage. Everyone is entitled to his/her prejudice.

[@MarshaHunt99]

​@@dax4812victim blaming. You are a really big Rammstein fan boy!

[@seanpatrick1243]

Did you think to interview any attractive young women at the Munich concert?

[@josephnulley6808]

These girls are so innocent...........I beg to ask

[@user-87jnfdcssbmjj]

That woman who broke the silence is terrific!

[@penguinista]

Agreed! That took a huge amount of courage.

[@Punchmemommy]

She was lying

[@naverno]

A terrific liar.

[@esteemedyams]

Tries to destroy the careers of 6 artists in order to get her 15 minutes of fame. Terrific!

[@ronvondabard]

@@esteemedyams She literally only made the accusations about till, not the entire band, till is probably the least important person in the band because richard can do some great vocals.

[@CieplinskiPawel]

_She was sure there will be no sex_ *BUAHAHAHAHA‼️* Girls invited to the backstage🤣

[@jukepablooner]

He looks like Herman munster😂😂😂😂

[@kalhan8644]

Long time Rammstein fan from India, i feel devastated and cheated. These women are clearly not making up stories. Rammstein is more than just Lin, and the rest of the band needs to decide if they want to stand by these women and continue the awesome legacy of Rammstein, or destroy Rammstein by sinking with Lin.

[@AgeOfGoldenSilence]

We should wait for the investigation I believe. But you are right, it is devastating

[@RadhikaPriya1]

The rest are as bad. I was invited to one of their after parties

[@lemsip207]

​@@RadhikaPriya1Can you name names and how long ago was that?

[@Diggnuts]

... Ehhm.. Expecting sex and rape are not the same thing.

[@pevlez]

7:15 Do they know that their drinks are getting spiked?

[@maryrabelo.s.wagner8346]

The great truth is that nowadays we are already aware (in some way) that nobody knows anybody. And that, in my view, is liberating.

[@yasminesteinbauer8565]

Except Google - they know everything about you.

[@JuliaClark]

Thank you.

[@viktorg6823]

The way these German Karens played down the accusations and even blamed the women for being assaulted really made me ashamed of my own country.

[@Dickstick]

"German Karens" Explain shortly what you think a "Karen" person is and how it can be applied in this scenario. You are embarrassing yourself by using words you don't understand..

[@viktorg6823]

@@Dickstick You have no authority over anyone so you don't get to demand anything. If you really think that these women made all this stuff up, you're just a bitter, resentful incel.

[@naverno]

In a free society everyone is assumed innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. People in Ukraine are dying to have this right that you absolutely despise.

[@worldpaintedblack]

@@Dickstick its pretty simple terminology buddy: " Karen is a pejorative term used as slang for a middle-class white woman perceived as entitled or demanding beyond the scope of what is normal. The term is often portrayed in memes depicting middle-class white women who "use their white and class privilege to demand their own way" this sense of entitlement also extents to victim blaming usually and other antiquated mindsets.

[@michaelgoetze2103]

What they said was shameful but no need to feel ashamed for the country.

[@Keiktu]

I'm sorry, its just that.. what were they expecting? XD

[@lleston8927]

I love their music but if this is true I am done

[@robertstan2349]

you'd best be done with every band ever then 🤣

[@helenivanova5440]

@@robertstan2349 so you think that every band's members are rapists? Then what is so funny for you about it?

[@zen1647]

So wierd.... guy who looks like a sexual predator might be a sexual predator. /s

[@thulsadoom544]

I can imagine Lindermans flunkys searching for fresh meat for King Till ...bring them to me i am Rammstein i am a God.

[@viktorias63]

Why is this only coming from German women? They been all over the world basically but German women are the only ones making these accusations as far as i seen.

[@lukeamato2348]

Im having my doubts

[@eelsoirdor3573]

The German woman at the end nails it: innocent until proven guilty. Let the investigation advance, no judgement shouldn't be done before.

[@helenhoward5346]

100%. Who is the arbiter of truth and justice though? I mean, Marilyn Manson was publicly crucified in much the same way, granted he's not a narcissist unlike Till (I don't mean it in a derogatory way, it's just my assessment). It just shows that MULTIPLE women can come forth spouting fictional accounts of horrific abuse when that's not what happened. In fact, his vindictive ex Rachel Even Wood wanted to be a me too icon so she threw the kind hearted Manson under the bus by having her equally psycho girlfriend recruit groupies/fans, some through manipulation, to go public with their manufactured claims of sexual sadism and psychological terror.