Dyno "ASS"essement - Project ASS2000 - EP15

[@georgecastanza834]

215 to the wheel stock is definitely not heard of. You were right, 195-205 is the normal for AP1, and stock AP2's make about 205-220. Intake, and exhaust are pretty much optimized from the factory. Test pipe might net 5-7 WHP, but that's all the substantial gains you'll get from bolt ons aside from the weight reduction of the exhaust and cat. Everyone knows you have to SC or turbo to make good power on these cars, aftermarket wise at least.

[@speedacademy]

S2k2014 Yeah, I think everyone got a bit over zealous with their predictions considering its only bolt-ons that were added to the car. Once we get a proper tune then I have no doubt we'll pick up some power.

[@georgecastanza834]

Tune is the way to go, only way to really go is AEM V2.

[@lamNoJedi]

You sir hit it right on the head. I think more disappoint is coming in a future video if they just stick with boltons. especially on a f20c. if this was a f22 then the gains would be significant. A kw blower or SOS kit would solve all their power problems

[@georgecastanza834]

hondacivick20 yep.

[@ethownzbh]

You should make some kind of flap venting system at the front right bumper slit area to allow the intake to get basically ram air. I was lazy and just cut between the slits and when it rains I tape it over. There's a noticeable increase in response and probably power when I have the tape off

[@yyyousefff]

Glad i found this channel!!! Ive been watching all the build episodes for all your cars way too quickly lol.

[@speedacademy]

Hamza Ishaq Awesome! Glad you're liking the channel. More good stuff is coming sooooon!

[@7MPower]

Has the power-loss had anything to do with the piping diameter of the test pipe you used to make that cat.?

[@speedacademy]

+7MPower No, the power loss isn't loss at all. Rather a variance in testing and a great example of how dyno tuning needs to be performed in a short period of time if you're comparing results.

[@Alex1001w]

when u add more air to an engine you need to add gas too and ignition timing so you could map those things in and see results

[@deshiitimmons416]

Any new engine mods coming soon. For any cars.

[@AdonisGaming93]

so what did you guys do wrong the baseline? Because that is what it read so if the same dyno with the same settings lost power that should mean a genuine powerloss....no? Put it back to stock and see if you get lower numbers. Something definitely went wrong.

[@Garage13RLM]

The exhaust set up sounds great!

[@speedacademy]

Random Logic Media Thanks, we're really liking the sound despite no power gains lol

[@Garage13RLM]

are you guys gonna keep the power plant NA? Turbo? maybe even ITB's I rarely see those on the s2k's

[@speedacademy]

Random Logic Media we don't want to spoil the surprise, but we like your train of thought...

[@Garage13RLM]

Speed Academy haha of course!

[@woofer2121]

put the factory cat back on and run it again.

[@jorges2000]

Its good to see it back on the rollers.

[@speedacademy]

jorges2000 We're anxious to get it back on again for tuning!

[@justintime6160]

Hopefully after a solid tune and testing it can climb up into the 220's which in my opinion for be perfect for the ASS!

[@speedacademy]

***** We have no doubt it will make close to that or over when the tuning commences.

[@f22cap2s2k]

Was the weather different from last year? Temp, humidity, alignment of Pluto in the solar system...all seems to play a role. :p Great work guys...get some aero on that thing and let's hit the track!

[@x2p428]

From what I've heard the stock intake makes more power than aftermarket ones. Maybe you guys should test that.

[@speedacademy]

x2p428 we could definitely test that, but we know from prior experience that the AEM intake on the F20C makes about 5-7whp on average. To be at 210whp with these mods is actually exactly what we would have expected had the car baselined at a more typical 195-200whp. Our baseline last year at 215 was just freakishly high, so it's making it look like we lost power but realistically we're right where we should be.

[@Bunchofhelmets]

How many runs did you guys do? I've seen V-tec engine's take a few runs to get up to a correct temp for the cams to kick in fully. Give her a tune and open headers and she'll gain responsiveness and a few extra ponies.

[@speedacademy]

Daniel P.S We did at least 3-4 runs. Typically we keep going until it starts to lose power (from heat soak).

[@Weihrauch88]

Go for an exhaust manifold too, good gains to be had mid range, not to mention weight saving aswell ;) PLM manifolds get good writeups, they're replicas of J's racing manifolds! I'd have one aswell only they're not very Right hand drive friendly!

[@speedacademy]

Weihrauch88 We looked into exhaust manifolds but didn't really find too many results online of people making good power gains. 5whp didn't seem enough to justify grabbing one but we'll check into the suggestions you made, thanks!

[@Driven.ByVlad]

Do you guys have a tune or chip of some sort on the car to complement the mods?

[@speedacademy]

SovietsRule Not yet, but we have an ECU upgrade and custom tune coming soon, along with a few more power adders that should really help our F20C breath.

[@boosted_2j]

All that money and loose power lol.

[@speedacademy]

Echo-GAMING The only money spent on engine mods is just under $2,000 so it reality its not that much at all, plus we havent tuned the car yet.

[@boosted_2j]

yea i was just joking lol i knew that

[@lamNoJedi]

I just went through this. if your just sticking with the basic boltons u won't see much of a power difference. I was tuned on a dynopack and went from 194 to 201whp. All your gains will come from lowering vtec and picking up maybe 10-15 whp in the midrange. Once at 6k rpms you will make identical to the stock ecu till about 7800rpms when the stock ecu starts to trail off. You should see another 10 whp at around 8300 rpms. That high flow cat should be dumped for just a straight test pipe.

[@speedacademy]

hondacivick20 We can't justify running a test pipe, the cops are pretty strict here if they catch you without a cat. And as soon as we get it tuned, these mods will make more of a difference, just like you said lowering the VTEC point will be huge.

[@lamNoJedi]

+Speed Academy cops actually check your cars for cats there ? That hfc will do very little for you. Your Tanabe exhaust paired with a tp won't be much louder. I'm runing a Tanabe medalion with tp and it's very quiet until WOT. It's just slightly louder than stock when cruising . You can also buy resonated test pipes if ur that concerned with noise

[@Kakeyoro]

Hey guys. There was something said by one of the guys about how it was a "hot" day. Also, didn't you guys originally dyno in the winter? Just saying, that colder and drier air does make a hell of a difference. It may be the same dyno but other conditions might be working against you. I confident that what you guys put on makes documented power.

[@speedacademy]

***** For this test to be accurate, it needed to be done within a few days but waiting the 6 months has skewed the results like you said, it was really hot and the baseline was done early in the spring.

[@svmuscle7677]

He did say it was pretty hot... makes a big difference

[@arturoperez5015]

How about a tune and a shot of nos or a snail

[@speedacademy]

Arturo Perez Tune is coming and we have some other plans for more power :D

[@TheS2Kman]

Loving the videos, giving me too many ideas!waiting for the next episodes!can't wait for the tune!!

[@speedacademy]

TheS2Kman Awesome! Glad you're enjoying the series.

[@HiruMihnea]

Really lovin' the videos, be it ASS2000, RX7 or 911 Turbo. Keep 'em coming, guys!

[@lamNoJedi]

This is the perfect opportunity to make another video. A little controversy back and fourth here. I would use ur 210whp as ur base then. Put everything back to stock and make another video to report the gains at stock again. I would def tune in to that video to get everything cleared up!!!

[@speedacademy]

hondacivick20 Thats not a bad idea. Our schedule is super hectic right now trying to get both this car tuned and the FRS but maybe we can fit it in the near future. We'll do our best!

[@lamNoJedi]

Speed Academy here's a link to compare my baseline vs. Being tuned. Same type of dyno as u guys. Hopefully can give u an insight on what to expect . This is with injen cai, hks header, Tanabe medalion exhaust , circuit werks tp. www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/1127065-hks-header-new-tune-aug4th/page__st__75

[@speedacademy]

hondacivick20 Good read, it's always hard to know how the engine will react to mods but judging from your experience we don't expect to see much top end power which is fine. That dip in the mid range that you got rid of would be good enough for us.

[@lamNoJedi]

+Speed Academy you should see some top end. Are u guys planning on a header ? the stock header is actually really good. I wish I kept it instead of buying the hks.

[@speedacademy]

hondacivick20 That's why we stayed with the stock header. Doesn't add enough power to justify the cost. Plus, we love the OE heat shielding.

[@rippinonap1]

It could be very possible that a tune is necessary we have seen real Hp gains from this engine before with these mods and they are substantial. With the O2 sensor at the cat it is quite possible it's having difficulty reading properly now that there is much more flow. Thus a loss where there should be gain. I'm also of the belief that on a car of this condition having good days and bad days with the injectors or ignition is a definite possibility. Especially in such heat. Old Honda ignitions show their age at high temps. I honestly think there are at least 10-15 horsies in the hiding in the stables and not pulling the car right now. I'm purely speculating but from what I've seen you should've made gains

[@speedacademy]

Sean Bowman You're very right, the amount of difference in the days we tested before and after could have changed the results. Just goes to show how dyno results can differ from season to season.

[@KoiTimeUSA]

I would like to make a suggestion that u guys wrap it in blue chrome!!!!!! nice....

[@speedacademy]

Tony Nguyen That would be too flashy for the ASS2000 haha. It needs to keep a bit of the rough around the edges look.

[@fokker1138]

215 stock on an F20 was not believable. 210 with those mods without tune is much more believable, but I still think that franken-cat may hold you back even after the tune. I'm surprised you don't throw O2 DTCs with that bung you installed. Usually a defouler is necessary to prevent codes.

[@jgilk1]

26 hp

[@DJLOUIE1000]

Kpro or AEM EMS, Test Pipe and Tune .. done.

[@speedacademy]

+DJLOUIE1000 We've got an AEM EMS video in the works! No test pipe though, we want this thing to still be street legal.

[@ottoyu101]

Nice video as usual!

[@thinkeightsix]

When are you guys going to start calling it the BADASS2000?

[@speedacademy]

Daniel Westerfield Haha, we've been already talking about changing the name but thinking it wont apply until we beat the lap time!

[@Skwisgar2322]

Yes another case of the CAI killing power I suspect. OEM's do a lot of careful engineering on the intake system, replacing it with a tube can cause all kinds of issues.

[@speedacademy]

+Skwisgar2322 We've test over 6 of these Intakes on S2k's during our careers and they all pick up power. This case is one of not doing a back to back test.

[@Skwisgar2322]

perhaps, I dunno.

[@bgfcjoe]

maybe the loss of back pressure on the exhaust is the reason for the hp loss. I always see people going to single exhaust to gain power on these cars.

[@speedacademy]

bgfcjoe A loss of back pressure wouldnt cause power loss, theoretically its the opposite way around. We've heard the same thing but a single is just too loud for us to justify the minimal gains on a single system.

[@PowellMoore]

It is after all the ASS2000

[@livelifetothemex]

holy shit dude i worked with fabian at bolton toyota !

[@speedacademy]

+j Singh haha Fabian is famous on the Internet now! :P

[@FreestylerAlbert]

anyone selling AP2 driver side headlights? :D thanks. (perfect condition)

[@Earle_Arts]

my guess 275 whp time mark 0:32

[@Earle_Arts]

wow I suck at guessing these things lol. add a compound Turbo system

[@mrmidnight32]

Lose the air intake. $50 says you gain it back. A lot of testing shows aside from a few rare engines cold air intakes actually suck power. Go back to the stock unit. See what you get.

[@18iser]

Aftermarket intakes and exhausts never work out on NA motors guys you should have known! I'm getting ready for the yeah we need it tuned to get the extra benefit from those mods bullshit. Should have just saved the money and tuned it without any mods.

[@speedacademy]

18iser Well, we do have about 15 years experience testing all sorts of different cars with intake and exhaust mods, and in most cases they do make power. As for the "need a tune to get the benefit from the mods", that is also usually true. Tuning without any mods can yield gains as well, but on a highly optimized NA engine like the S2000 the gains you'll see are more in the mid-range, not in peak HP or TQ numbers. So our peak HP guessing game in this video was really just for fun, as it's area under the curve gains that matter most and translate to a faster car in the real world, and it's the ECU tuning that will get us those gains in combination with the parts we've bolted up.

[@18iser]

+Speed Academy Well the exhaust useaully gives some weight loss so that's good I guess.

[@speedacademy]

18iser A nice single exit 70mm exhaust is known to make the most power on these engines and they do shed quite a bit of weight too, you're right. But man are they loud. We picked the Tanabe exhaust for its sound, to be honest. It's quiet enough that we won't wake the neighbours or feel like douchebags cruising around town, but at wide open throttle is sounds really sexy. It's probably not much lighter than stock (maybe 10 lbs lighter) because it's still a dual exit large muffler setup.

[@Ryousure]

Goes to show you , go hard it is to get more power out of a engine , that was high strung already.. tuning will help, mid range, but that it. Remember the f20c was the highest HP per litre engine for 10 years, till Ferrari best it.. Honda designed the intake and exhaust to flow and rev to 9000 rpm and super high piston speed. 1hr on s2ki would of saved you time and money

[@speedacademy]

johnzal79 LOL we've spent a lot more than one hour on S2Ki. We've been dyno testing cars for over a decade now and we've been involved in several other S2000 builds when we ran Modified Magazine. This ain't our first rodeo and we've seen our fair share of unusually high and unusually low dyno results, along with lots right where they should be. Our baseline was very high for whatever reason, but our current number of 210whp with these mods is right where it should be.

[@Ryousure]

Speed Academy Any link to those other build.. very interested, because we all know how hard it is to make NA power on a S2k. So lets say dyno is reading + or - 5hp. Yes you are in line with power gained. What I'm saying is , it take so much money to gain HP and s2K.. I believe that once a go stand-alone ecu.. Hp will go up under the curve. I would like to know if the gain was in the mid rage or top end..

[@Ryousure]

Speed Academy Oh it would be awesome if you would use mega squirt new ecu.

[@millionchaser975]

I was just waiting for vtec to kick in

[@joshcrawford1095]

wow 195 hp stock, in Europe the s2000 comes with 236 to 240 hp stock.

[@speedacademy]

+Josh Crawford That is WHP not crank. The S2000 is rated to 240hp in the US and Canada. Its the same engine and ECU as in Europe.

[@SIRICKO]

BOOST IT!

[@Alex1001w]

mapping is the solution

[@BenCaswell365]

Speed Academy time for some boost

[@speedacademy]

Ben Caswell Boost fixes everything! ;)

[@charlesmeyer8951]

You need to change the fucking ECU! It's on a stock map!

[@speedacademy]

Charles Meyer We'll be fucking doing that soon. :)

[@charlesmeyer8951]

K good :)

[@imSchwaggy]

Wait... wtf all that money for such a low hp car :O ! Im thinking you'd be at around 295-305 with all that moneys :'(

[@Plur307]

Jermaine Simpson I think the first read was probably a bad reading. Like he said it was unusually high for a stock S2000. Something was probably wrong with the settings of the dyno when they measured it.

[@georgecastanza834]

Jermaine Simpson All that money? 10k aint a lot for a high mileage stock AP1.. you're just broke. Get your money up kid.

[@imSchwaggy]

They spent like 15k+ I'm talking about the HP alone . I'm thinking with the mods they would be near 300 . S2k2014​ . by the time I spend that much on my e36 I'll be around 360

[@speedacademy]

Jermaine Simpson We've actually spent just under $2k on engine mods and the rest on proper track oriented parts.

[@imSchwaggy]

Speed Academy ooooh now it makes sense. i didnt remember that from the videos. Any future plans on boosting?

[@cgunnerII]

222hp

[@F_r_a_n_y]

...seriously? Lost power. Is that because that engine is already built with everything in mind from the factory and changing anything on it only makes it worse? That's a lot of money spent to loose 5whp.

[@speedacademy]

Frany honestly, we didn't lose power. The baseline we did last year was really high for whatever reason. To be at 210whp with these mods is pretty much spot on, so it's a bit deceptive because we started with such a high stock baseline. For truly comparable results, we would have needed to baseline the car stock and then install all these mods on the same day.

[@michaelmeece]

The cat was way too small.

[@rat123mumu]

lmao

[@Christian___g]

I wanted a new cat until I saw this video just want a little more horsepower without putting a fortune into my car anyone have any suggestions please let me know thank you

[@Josephasaurus]

Yup all those mods and no Tune your gonna go nowhere

[@speedacademy]

joseph martinez Tune is coming VERY soon!

[@GethinJames]

LOL so the point is not to waste your time doing dinos

[@thekiddupree5567]

Such a disappointment. All that work. Nothing really to show for it.

[@speedacademy]

Kid Dupree It's a bummer, but it's not that unusual to have a setback on an untuned ECU. We've got an ECU upgrade coming soon that Sasha from OnPoint Dyno will do a custom tune on, which should really let us get the most out of this set of mods.

[@thekiddupree5567]

Speed Academy I guess I've been spoiled by all the instant gains from previous vehicle modifications lol. You guys are doing good work.

[@081588101]

get rid of the cold air intake ans it should be, as before.

[@speedacademy]

081588101 You think the cold air intake is killing the power?!

[@081588101]

Speed Academy i really think it does! i have never been a fan of these intakes, because the distance the air has to travel is dramatically raised.thats not just a matter of response but due to the long way, the air has plenty of time to get heated up. btw, i love this series and your channel!! especially the fact that you show everything in detail. keep up the good work.

[@speedacademy]

081588101 The distance it travels is actually supposed to help the velocity and accumulation of air so it has a ram air effect which is what we've been told and shown by intake companies hence why we run em!

[@081588101]

Speed Academy im not a certified engineer, but i believe that the ram air effect is pretty weak. and by saying the air has plenty of time to get heated up, i mean the pipe is going through the engine bay, which is of course hot. but it could also be that it doesnt matter, because the air is travelling very fast. again, im not an engineer, but i think its worth trying! :)

[@speedacademy]

081588101 Either way, the intake will be gone sooner than later as we've got some very cool power adder getting installed. :D

[@Alex1001w]

when u add more air to an engine you need to add gas too and ignition timing so you could map those things in and see results

[@speedacademy]

+Joshua Wiggins With an intake and exhaust you're not altering the intake of air enough to really need a tune. It's still within the readable parameters of the ECU. However, a tune can definitely optimize the setup.

[@Alex1001w]

when u add more air to an engine you need to add gas too and ignition timing so you could map those things in and see results

[@Skwisgar2322]

+Joshua Wiggins The ECU reads the O2 sensor and corrects the Air/Fuel ratio in real time, so unless you are running into the limits of the fuel system it will correct for the added air.

[@Alex1001w]

+Skwisgar2322 well with my car n the program I found seems I can only adjust afr's on it, seems like closed n open loop afr I just set them and go, got to get a dyno done to see if it does anything, but feels better