Dyno testing headers - gold 4age

Testing new collector design and stepped headers
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Insta : @garage4age
@Garage 4age

[@25kmgb]

Please give us your opinion of what the comparison shows and why. Just a short synopsis. This would add tremendous value to your videos . Share your insights- Please

[@alejandro52612]

Would have loved to see a whole video of that header fabrication! Looks beautiful 🤩

[@albertoratti5159]

Can You test a header wrapped vs no wrapped? (With "exaust wrap / fiber glass thing)

[@bmwmaster81]

Thanks! The best channel for NA Engine builders! Love to see the answers which I had always in mind while building concepts. To see the impact on changes before / after is awesome!

[@jemyflawfle9854]

Very nice your craftsmanship is unreal dude

[@sersge]

collector merge is a piece of art, trying to improve scavanging with that "bottleneck"?

[@Garage4age]

I was trying to cut down the big open area where the 4 pipes merge. Going to do more work on this section when my good engine goes back in. as i want to see how much i can downsize the outlet, without effecting top end.

[@hondatrix]

@@Garage4age Try anti-reversion next...I have a some input if you need...

[@ReubenHorner]

Interesting that once you reach a point the exhaust system sorta stops giving results. Those headers make me moist though..

[@kerbieprince7894]

Would you have find any gains using a heat wrap?

[@copisetic1104]

Try a stepped header on the primary tubes.

[@Garage4age]

the "new" ones have a step where the straight part ends. I have had some top end gains by running a flair at same point and going up another pipe size. but diameter ends up too big and has big loss low/midrange

[@Einimas]

Thats a massive gain considering how efficient the previous header was.

[@marmo_tv2049]

Did the exhaust sound any different with the steps in them?

[@paul1der]

great job on the step but for best results try splitting the 4 into 2 separate pairs in line with the firing order for example, if the firing order is 1-3-2-4 Put cyl. 1-3 together to a larger collector and 2-4 to an identical one. Then merge those 2 pairs to a even bigger y pipe. This is the peak exhaust tech that can be seen in the finest modern na engines produced

[@sdjHFCNIYWGDFKO]

I apologise if you have already addressed this but you should really look into making a real anti reversion chamber up near the collector of the header. It could really help with those dips in the rev range

[@Garage4age]

It kinda already has it built into exhaust where collector ends and it jumps up to 3". if you watch my previous video. i run open header. then put the slip on part that adapts from the collector to 3". the 2.5" collector sicks through this part into the 3" exhaust. These engine are usually way worse in terms of dips when put cams in them. this one makes 20kw through the midrange on one i tuned the other day with same cams.

[@oikkuoek]

That is still 1,6 I assume? In that case, the diameter is a hair too big. Also the collector does not scavenge, but creates a turbulent pulse that runs upstream, making those dips in the curve. 4-2-1 to 63mm, and you can curve it from the flange, that straight part on the start is unnecessary, if the Y-sections flow and create a vacuum for the next opening exhaust valve. Equal length is also unnecessary for your rev range. More important factors are diameter of the runner matching the port, radius of the curve and the angle and flow of the Y-sections. The Y-collectors don't need to be double the earlier, 1,5 is big enough. Otherwise the gas expands too much and creates turbulence, that creates restriction. Positioning and the order of the Y's affects to the torque curve. It can be 1-4 and 2-3, or 1-3 and 2-4, or 1-2 and 3-4, depending on the runner length and desired torque curve. Most power is made when the pulse is just passed the Y when the next exhaust valve opens. More speed the gas has, more vacuum it creates, and thus clears the opening exhaust more efficiently.

[@Garage4age]

yes still 1.6 . The tube out of head is already smaller than factory and same size as port. dips in curve below 4000rpm are a non issue, as not used at wide open below that. also are largely effected by the section after collector as seen in my previous vid. will try 4-2-1 at some stage.

[@oikkuoek]

@@Garage4age Same dips are at the curve on the top end too, only much more closer to each other. It's the saw blade in the raw curve. Collector length in 4-1 also has an effect on the upstream pulse, as you already know. It can be made to use, like in a 2stroke exhaust, but 4T benefits more from scavenging headers.

[@oikkuoek]

@@Garage4age the scavenging headers has more effect when there's overlap on the cam between inlet and exhaust. This is all gains on the top end of the range.

[@alro2434]

@@Garage4age Thanks, but from here it sure do look huge.

[@jairlenz8092]

Experimente 4x2x1

[@FlyApeRally]

Would hi - comp pistons affect the hp?

[@Garage4age]

one of my later video's i upped the compression using a thinner head gasket. should be similar results. although the tightened squish may be having some effect as well

[@futten3230]

how do you go about finding the right length on primaries?

[@SupermasiveHole]

... un artista haciendo trabajos con el metal.. 🙇🏻‍♂️

[@lmwang1992]

Hi... Wht diameter primary pipe in the header?

[@Garage4age]

35mm id

[@MotoresAspirados]

Man, your channel is the best.

[@HollywoodCod]

Heat wrap because hot exhaust is more power

[@gedas3419]

Would you give a shot at primary length tests? Maybe for simple testing purposes some up-pipes without hood and collector with slip-fit pipes to easily test affects on length?

[@TurboAcki]

I think a Tri-Y would work nice too. Primary with 2 Step minimum. With some more data I could calc some length. Looks too long in the video.

[@Garage4age]

Maybe at a later date when i forget how long these ones took to make. Idea here was to keep length the same to test the other changes. Ive had a few people run the numbers in software, the length is pretty close to the numbers they spit out. they probably look longer than what they are.

[@wiltse0]

I've been wanting a total length test like you suggest. It has a huge affect on exhaust scavenging.

[@TurboAcki]

@@Garage4age do you know which harmonic? As I wrote, with Tri-Y I would expect some more power but (of course) with some "flatter" spots - cause of the harmonic. Length based on a video is always - lets say "doubtful"... Anyways, great video!

[@rafaellastracom6411]

How about making a set of stepped headers?

[@dgangl_moto]

Dyno idea: different viscosity oils. Keep up the good work!

[@las3k91]

I've seen 2hp gain with LM Ceratec added :P

[@skippy2987]

What is the header diameter off the head? 1.5" off the head will support 50hp/cyl, so there may be room for you to go significantly smaller. Do you have Pipemax?

[@Garage4age]

they are 1.5" . id about 35mm. the newer ones are smaller than this out of head then step up. they are actually not meant for this engine. need to support my good engine which makes over 200whp. dont have pipe max

[@Mis73rRand0m]

beautiful collector design!

[@benhowe2087]

I think that the possible gains from real crankcase vacuum versus the amount of work will surprise you. This was a huge amount of work to build an incredibly beautiful header. You can build a pan o vac system in a fraction of this time for a much larger increase. Or instal an engine vacuum pump, or even a full dry sump. Anything to create as much vacuum as your seals will tolerate. The closer to full vacuum you get. The more power. Even a small engine will make significant gains from removing windage and better ring sealing.

[@djremotion2]

Can you elaborate to absolute novice? I would like to understand this and how to make it in my own BMW 6-cylinder engine.

[@Franco_FC]

test 4-2-1 exhaust??

[@peterfuchs7822]

Great test love it . You would have plenty room on your new headers to put some anti reversion chambers on it. Try it

[@zox26low57]

It is interesting to test an exhaust valve like EXUP after the collector. I wanted to build it myself.

[@Garage4age]

Looks interesting.

[@rogerpaulll1451]

beautiful work

[@pilsneryotov6853]

Make the exit from the cylinder head with straight pipes 180 mm long, immediately measuring the exit angle behind the exhaust valve, making the pipe a continuation of the exhaust channel itself, and then a smooth bend in 4-1. Immediately there will be a significant increase in both power and torque. I am waiting for your feedback in the comments and like! Recipe from Russia! I hope you understand my position!

[@DRFT14]

Can you fabricate and supply these by any chance? Fellow Kiwi here. It'd be for an AE85.

[@Garage4age]

Was going to, but will work out pretty pricey. materials alone aren't cheap

[@erdperformancetuning6521]

Try to install anti reversion chamber

[@thebowtieguy777]

Id love to see a video comparing stock intake and exhaust to your latest variants

[@Garage4age]

I'm going to be changing up this setup soon, but may throw the stock intake back before i do since a few people have asked to see what it does. dont have any stock exhaust stuff to try unfortunately. stock rwd manifolds aren't too common these days, plus unsure if they will fit in my chassis.

[@Bluterus]

Maybe you could do a before and after video of the power difference I'll make fitting my new garage 4age sticker to my car?

[@Garage4age]

Dyno wont hold that much power

[@alistairbalistair9596]

wow.... barely any difference.

[@cirokietyka692]

Light flywheel make difference? Saudações do Brasil.

[@hojnikb]

It could make some difference, since you have a smaller parasitic loss

[@Garage4age]

It makes a big difference to how the car drives. The lower gears the car accelerates faster as motor can spin up faster. car in vid used to have a 5.9kg flywheel. has a 3.7kg now with smaller lighter clutch. Probably wouldn't show up so much on the dyno. maybe on an inertia only dyno would see some gain. Mine is braked, so it tries to hold the same ramp rate no matter the power. So weight of driveline has less effect on the numbers. Im not going to pull the engine to swap and test it.

[@Tomyp89]

My car after swapping too an 6kg flywheel (factory one 12-13kg) felt like it picked up 40 Nm torque.

[@TurboAcki]

@@Tomyp89 but only in lower gears

[@MrAndrius12]

A=F/M

[@ricepony33]

Fluidampr?

[@adriangale]

At least it looks good!

[@Garage4age]

Thats what i thought. Its pretty hard to improve on something that works good already

[@BuddyCorp]

Finally got my stickers in, good shit. Got the Garage 4AGE on my roll cab and the ITB 4AGE on my breakdown box. I know it's outside your control but I thought it was a bit weird that both stickers were ordered at the same time but arrived in different envelopes.

[@Garage4age]

Sweet. Yeah its kinda annoying the do that and make you pay shipping twice. Might get a bunch made locally at some stage

[@Magovit]

we tested two headers, 4x1 and 4x2x1 from the same factory . result 4x1 loss on mid range.

[@Garage4age]

Its pretty hard to compare them. lots of variables

[@fOrNaLL]

0:07 - 'the same diameter' but the narrow part is the same diameter (and the rest wider), or the rest is the same (and the first part has reduced diameter compared to the OEM)?

[@josemateo4590]

Is called stepped headers, they are use to que give a better sound to the engine, better exhaust flow and more horse power

[@fOrNaLL]

​@@josemateo4590 yes, and the whole video is about stepped headers and comparsion 😅 but you did not understand my question

[@05veronesem]

Very interesting, iv also built a set of stepped primary headers like this for rallying here in NZ, I however went 4-2-1, i have a similar neck down at the final collector and then back out to 2.25 inch for the remainder exhaust. Your runs with the 3 inch standard pipe supprisd me so I may have to look into that moving forward. Where abouts in NZ are you based?

[@Garage4age]

Doesn't look like the step is doing much here. It worked on my big headers improving top end. but the change in pipe size is bigger and the pipe has a taper out at the end of stepped section. the bigger diameter also killed power down low. The gains here look to be from the collector exit and tapered section after it. much like in my previous megaphone vid. I want to work on this section more, but will probably put it on hold till my good engine goes back in. As want to see how much i can downsize the neck before losing top end. 3" exhaust definitely makes it easier to get things working right. up sizing the first part of your exhaust then into a glass pack straight through muffler/reso, then into your existing 2.25 at the exit of said muffler should work. Im in northland

[@lukassonntag3956]

I wonder if the gains were from the step section the collector or both

[@Garage4age]

Will be from the collector. or more so the exit and tapered out section. as done much the same as in my previous megaphone vid

[@jonathanryan2915]

PERFECT

[@anomamos9095]

The new headers look fab....ulos! If you want more power try ram air. Knock up a large air box that feeds from behind the grill or just in front of the windshield. Use two big flat air filters or one of those huge round ones used on V8 diesels to catch the bugs and birds that might clog the intake.

[@Garage4age]

Thanks. unfortunately you have to be going really fast to see any benefit. especially when take into account losses from airbox. Cold air has plenty of benefit though. this car has a big gap beside radiator that keep the intake temps pretty cool. I used to have some panels that pretty much sealed off the intake side of the engine bay, but too many intake changes and doesn't fit anymore.

[@anomamos9095]

@@Garage4age If you pick the right position on the right vehicle ram air starts to take effect at about 60kph

[@djremotion2]

@@Garage4age hello I design specifically ramairs, 3D print them and then ship internationally. I design and print in Finland. In last 5 years I have shipped about 200 units. I can also just design it for you and you print it yourself. Or use printed as mold to make carbon fiber one.

[@lukeburkill7767]

Nive one mate👍🏽 can't tell in the vids but did you notice any difference in sound? 🎶 Also how did you choose the length of where you stepped it up?

[@Garage4age]

intake is way louder on this car than exhaust, so cant really hear exhaust. Doesn't make any Maisteer f1 sounds if that is what you are thinking. step was just based on some other headers i made and an easy spot to put it. from what i can find its on the short side of the range it should be in. but that's just based on what i found on the internet, and you know how thats goes... more testing required. but is a ton of work to make headers that are directly comparable, without changing more than one thing at a time

[@lukeburkill7767]

@@Garage4age lol yeah was wondering about the F1 sounds haha, I'm currently making a set for a customer of mine but turbo application and I guesstimated the step to be 1/3 length to the merge collector. My thoughts are why not every little bit counts 🙃

[@lukeburkill7767]

@@Garage4age maybe a side pipe on the starlet for some F1 sounds? 😅

[@CheekyNinja]

Have you looked at changing the order the pipes combine at in the collector? If you join them in the firing order 1,3,4,2 then the exhaust flow/pulses should go through the collector as a consistent spiral, could be another small benefit there for you.

[@makantahi3731]

i think about it too, i have v8 engine and if i look right(or left) side of engine is impossible to get pulses every 90 deg of crankshaft, it goes :1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, 8-4 is 90 deg, 4-6 is 180 deg 6-2 is 270deg and 2-8 is 180 deg, (or any other combination), so how to arrange 4-2-1 tubes

[@CheekyNinja]

@@makantahi3731 I think 4-2-1 is different because you are only merging a pair at a time. Whereas when you are merging 4-1 you could get a nice consistent swirl.

[@Garage4age]

They already do. unsure if actually any benefit, as all the headers i've made have been setup like this

[@drift0141]

Is it possible to buy your old header with international shipping? Depending on the shipping cost offcourse

[@Garage4age]

Hey, Not for sale sorry. Plus they dont really fit anything other than my car, as foul on normal rwd engine mounts

[@drift0141]

@@Garage4age okey! Had to ask, Im need to replicate the forward sweep on my car because I have starter, clutch, steering and brake on the exhaust side...

[@miguelalzatepena1624]

You make Nice vIdeo. I want to ask You something. I watched un your camshaft wheel like a sensor and i wanted yo know if you used a trigger wheel ir what the sensor read. Thanks for the help

[@3800S1]

Damn! wish there was at least someone in Aus that could fabricate exhausts like that.

[@dee1089]

wait.. .no dist or cas?

[@Garage4age]

I run my own custom trigger setup. its far more accurate than stock

[@DavidViny]

How about trying the least amount of throttle opening % that still achieves full power? Always wondered if that would boost low end torque with ITBs blocking some of the intake reversion.

[@LM_Cams]

Most ITBs maps that I've seen behave like that. You have more torque with 50~70% TPS until 2500~4000 rpm depending on the engine, cams, etc.

[@Garage4age]

probably as above, will be something in running throttle at lower position at low rpm. I haven't tired that, but have tired it to see what it does in the top end. running from 95% throttle to 100% throttle few % at a time. the engine I tested it on (not one in vid) needed 100% throttle to make best power.

[@suronsoon8913]

Man it looked so sic, when can you build me one...bro

[@kiqnkf]

Jeez I love these videos. Good job mate ;)

[@dekacster]

loool darkside used the smae music in his vid :)

[@Tcbomb88]

Hi there, your exhaust system straight 3" all the way through?

[@Garage4age]

The rear muffler isn't but is oversized internally so isn't a resiction

[@ardisian]

much sugoi

[@Swiftsuper1600]

Do you think having a 2.5" centre reso and a 2 1/4" rear muffler(straight through) would be detrimental to performance?

[@Garage4age]

you can get away with more further down the system to a point. But the best system is the correct header and the section of pipe after. then exhaust ends.

[@alejandro52612]

David Vizards book How to Build Horsepower has some interesting ideas in that regard. As to how to go from a relatively free flowing header and collector to the rest of the system without many power losses

[@codydillenbeck4443]

How come the power dips so much in the lower rpms?

[@Garage4age]

Low air speed and cam overlap, along with intake and exhaust tuning. Its actually pretty good most people end up with something a lot worse throwing the wrong parts together, like in this vid : kzbin.info/www/bejne/h4WonGmorsilirs

[@jareknowak8712]

What oil viscosity do You use?

[@Garage4age]

Just some cheap 10-40 in this engine

[@blkmustang007]

What model car is that?

[@Garage4age]

toyota starlet kp60

[@blkmustang007]

@@Garage4age thats a pretty cool car...seems very light and easy to work on... 13inch wheels ? im pretty sure we dont have those here in the U.S.

[@Garage4age]

@@blkmustang007 Pretty sure usa got them. probably fairly rare these days though. They were pretty popular here, but starting to get hard to find decent ones due to rust. 4age swap is super common. its on 14x7's

[@blkmustang007]

@@Garage4age I looked it up and it looks like the only starlets sold here were 3 door kp61's and only from 81-84. That would explain why ive never seen one haha..

[@Garage4age]

@@blkmustang007 yup, this one is a 84. they went to fwd after that