E-bikes ARE A Threat, And This Is Why | GCN Show Ep. 604

[@gcn]

What do you think about this e-bike situation? 🚴‍♂⚡

[@aljaliah6868]

In LONDON, most of the Deliveroo and Uber Eats e-bike meal courier bikes have been pimped to do more than 30 MPH which in conjunction with the fact that the riders CANNOT ride makes them the most dangerous moving items in the capital !!! Time for licensing compliance and enforcement !!! Are you listening Sadiq ? You can scam under the guise of safety and make some more money !!!

[@haggardgrin]

The problem with e-bikes isn't so much a problem with any bike but rather a problem with infrastructure. If you want to limit bike speeds in a certain area, build the infrastructure such that it's uncomfortable to ride at high speeds. This problem is incredibly obvious all over the states where many roads are long, wide and straight. You can set the speed limit on such a road as low as you want, people will still do 50 mph or more because the road allows for it. If you line the same road with trees, chicanes and other traffic calming infrastructure people naturally slow down. Most importantly in high traffic areas different vehicles need different spaces. Pedestrians, bicycles and cars in high volume do not mix!

[@damnyoumeddlingkids]

You didn’t mention that there are three classifications of e-bike. Class A, B and C. I think A is trail and must not have a throttle, B is 20mph on road, C is 28mph. I own a B that an be unlocked via its app to a C… but all the standards that exist are poorly explained across territories - I’m a Brit in the U.S. and right now I’d easily come home and buy an illegal bike without knowing it. Maybe do a deep dive on the classifications? Every conversation feels like ELI5 and it would be great to have a single trustworthy link to point to.

[@_Tp___]

I'm fine with them, just not happy that people in casual clothes can beat me up steep hills with minimal effort 😡

[@goingoutotheparty1]

Consider our terrible infrastructure and SUVs, Ebikes are cool.and essential for work for many

[@mikesimms1]

Florida resident here. The regulations on e-bikes as specified on the Florida Dept of Transportation's website are actually quite reasonable (maximum speed, pedal assist, etc.). However, what I see in practice is riders moving at over 40mph, not pedaling, blasting loud music, and often not wearing a helmet. It's so common here that it's assumed that any adult riding an e-bike has had their driver's license revoked. Seems like the fix would just be to enforce the laws as written.

[@ScottKent]

Orlando here...and I agree. I got an ebike (cat 3 cargo bike) for my daily commute of only 8.5 miles round trip, and while I can easily go 20-25 with level 2 assist (out of 5 levels)...I get passed by a couple of riders who never pedal. If it's doing over 30 it should be checked; and not allowed in the bike lanes. GCN is right, some people are going to make it much more difficult for everyone else.

[@discju]

I visited the Pinellas trail this year, and I was shocked at how many… essentially electric motorcycles… were on the trail. As you say, blasting music and nearly running over everyone else on the trail.

[@LordVarkson]

@@discju Brother, that's where mtb culture is going. The whole thing will be dead in 10 years when the trails get absolutely torn up by bros riding their electric dirt bikes.

[@johnb5482]

I agree with what you say about enforcing current laws but how can those laws be enforced? From what I see in Colorado law enforcement agencies have their hands full with other, perhaps, more weightier matters.

[@ScottKent]

@@johnb5482 Agree for the most part, but Orlando does have a section of bicycle police...they could handle some of it. Also, the park service needs to step up in some areas and ban some of this.

[@cwmoo]

In NYC people ride throttle "e-bikes" that can do 60kmh+. According to the law they are mopeds and require license + registration but almost all of them are unregistered. They often ride in cycle lanes, through parks, the wrong way, while running red lights. That's why so many people in NYC are so against "e-bikes". The fast "e-bikes" have also become preferred getaway vehicles for robbery and assault. There's a model I just saw in NYC with a switch to limit it to legal 20mph. But flip the hidden switch and it's 80kph and peak motor output up to 5000w.

[@06alepea1]

Exactly the same thing has happened in London. It’s often food couriers.

[@rudolphpyatt4833]

This, absolutely: E-bikers routinely engage in the most dangerous behavior. Add to that the e-scooters and hoverboards, which do similar speeds.

[@manoz6194]

@@06alepea1I'm a food courier and use an "illegal" ebike. I live in a hilly city. If I lived in London, I wouldn't need anymore than 250w but the 15.5mph limit is ridiculous, it should be 20mph.

[@belgianguitarist7503]

Same throttle bikes in Belgium... They buy them online in China, and as a bike mechanic I can tell you... They're pure shit. Not safe, shitty brakes... Hate them 😅

[@mikhailway]

As a fellow New Yorker I’ve been saying for years that these heavy e-bikes running the wrong way in one way bike lanes are more dangerous than the cars. So I’m back to riding with the cars much of the time - just as I did 25 years ago.

[@nbartlett6538]

The existing UK/EU regulations are absolutely fine, they just need to enforced. When you see a bike flying along the pavement at 30mph with the rider's feet not moving at all, it's 100% obvious that it's an illegal bike, so why can't the police stop and confiscate them?

[@paulgrimshaw8334]

Laziness, mostly.

[@raithrover1976]

Not really enforceable when the youths riding e-scramblers on public roads, paths and parks at 45mph have no intention of stopping and the police are trained not to give chase for safety reasons.

[@paulgrimshaw8334]

@@raithrover1976 Well that last part needs to stop right there. We wonder why certain people don’t respect rule… because they’re not enforced. We wonder why certain people don’t respect police… because they fight crime with one hand tied behind their back. In the time of my youth, flipping off the police would have been solved on the spot with a nightstick. Respect given, respect reciprocated. Nota difficult concept.

[@nbartlett6538]

@@raithrover1976 I think the police could safely give chase if they used similar modes of transport, such as mopeds or e-scooters. But they are always stuck in their cars 🤷‍♂️

[@raithrover1976]

@@paulgrimshaw8334 I think it's more to protect innocent bystanders than the youths themselves.

[@markfrench9004]

I hear people all the time bemoaning delivery cyclists in Birmingham - "they should have insurance, tax, registration plates" - and extending their disdain to the general cycling population, when in actual fact what they're seeing is lawless individuals on illegal, DIY ebikes, the kits for which are made too easily available on Amazon, AliX and Ebay. It's important to recognise the difference between what is essentially a motor bike and someone who is little more than a fast-moving pedestrian on wheels.

[@cruachan1191]

I've had this more than once in Glasgow, I'm stopped at lights or pootling along and then get a filthy look as someone on an e-bike or e-motorbike goes charging through ignoring all the traffic laws. Guilt by association sadly.

[@growyourownfreedom2191]

We need these drivers try are much safer than cars.

[@samtatge8299]

You people do love your regs. How’s that working out for you?

[@cyclicmusings2661]

I'm a beginner cyclist and like to ride on the local trail system. Most of the time I'm doing no more than 15 mph on a road bike solely under my own power. While I wouldn't really buy an e-bike anytime soon, I think they're good for making bicycles more accessible to more people, however regulation is needed. I think them being maxed out at 20 mph is fair. But worryingly I see more people riding things that closer resemble an electric motorcycle and exceeding 30mph on trails. Those things belong on the road, not the trails.

[@keithbrowes1974]

I agree that they should be allowed to max out at around 20 rather than 15.5 as that's pretty much the speed that a fit person on a conventional lightweight bike can maintain and it might help stop people being tempted to ride an illegal bike instead.

[@JMJM75257]

​@@keithbrowes1974 Exactly my mindset. Set the limit to 20mph and it will stop people from being tempted to derestrict. Ive been caught out quite a few times nearly causing accidents because I COULDN'T keep up with traffic WITH THE 15.5mph limit...

[@mycatistypingthis5450]

Nah, 25 km/h is much closer to the average of cycles

[@growyourownfreedom2191]

You need to be able to cycle 30 mph on the roads to keep up with the cars, why is it okay for cars to go at that speed but not bikes? Cars don’t need power limits we just rely on speed limits to regulate car speeds? I’ve seen cars driving fast through cycle infrastructure should we limit the speed of cars down to 15mph Also?

[@57ebartley]

@@cyclicmusings2661 They have been maxed out at 27 for a long time. But now they have a throttle like a motor cycle. Since I live in Sunny Florida a lot of people just use them for Transportation. Just like anything it's gonna take a lot people getting killed on them or from them for anything to change.

[@siimot]

Legal pedal assist e bikes aren't an issue imo, they won't be any quicker than a normal push bike unless going uphill, I use mine every day for commuting. It's the idiots on illegal bikes that ruin it for everybody else.

[@tonycrabtree3416]

pedal assist is way faster from the start. That's the real benefit.

[@siimot]

Yeah I can get upto 15.5mpg faster and easier, why it's so good for commuting :) on a flat piece of road after the motor cuts out my normal bike is faster.

[@robbchastain3036]

Hank always has that substitute teacher vibe, class is going to be a little more fun today. 😀

[@MrShaneSunshine]

😂

[@nyudoragon1478]

You're alone in this section ☠️

[@joekawasaki]

Where I live in Southern California these throttle controlled bikes are everywhere & usually ridden by kids who aren't wearing helmets & haven't yet learned handling skills while moving 30mph. These things have no business on cycle paths let alone under children.

[@tkejlboom]

CA has adopted the Class 1,2,3 model since 2016. It's plastered all over the DMV website. If they're on a throttle going over 20mph it's a moped and they need a license. Any parent buying their kid one of those things should be held liable. They're breaking the law, and they know it.

[@joekawasaki]

@@tkejlboom the adults don't act any better unfortunately. There's very little policing of them also.

[@theswordguy5269]

Same! I'm in South Orange County and its seriously unsafe to be on the sidewalk sometimes, let alone the bike trails. I"m seeing E-bikes on dedicated hiking trails now; there seems no place to be free from them.

[@mickleman52]

love riding in a bike lane, when with no warning a delivery driver with bags hanging off their handle bars zooms past me with no room going 30 mph. The problem is no one making laws/regulations really understands the problem. People are getting stuck on the shape of them, and not on what they are capable of. Let's call a duck a duck here, and there are too many "ebikes" that are just bicycle shaped electric motorcycles. They need to be tagged and require a license, because some of the stuff I see these people do makes you wonder if they even know the rules of the road.

[@PRH123]

Exactly, if I put pedals on either side of a city bus it doesn't make it a bike. Putting pedals on an electric motorcycle doesn't make it a bike either.

[@badabing8884]

But these delivery riders you come across are just resting their feet on the “peddles”. They are just using the throttle to cruise along because they’ve obviously tampered with it they can ride it well in excess of the legal limit.

[@webwarren]

What makes you think they'd actually get a license? There's so little regulation of even DRIVER licensing that, as long as you don't get pulled over for another reason, you can drive a car pretty much anywhere you please... Also, in very few places in the US are bike lanes restricted to _bicycles_ (with/without e-bikes). They're de facto jogging paths, pedestrian paths (no/poorly-maintained/insufficiently-wide sidewalks), baby-carriage/stroller paths, and - if you're using a wheelchair (particularly an electric wheelchair) to go a "walking distance", you need the width and relative smoothness of the bike path for your mobility.

[@mickleman52]

@@webwarren Just because something is hard doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. Oh no, there are people riding modded ebikes and doing dangerous stuff on the road/sidewalks. Better do nothing, because legislation is to hard. Oh no, how would we ever enforce such a law! By making it a law/regulation, and enforcing it by going after people who are doing stupid stuff. Oh no, this guy just ran through a red light, cut someone off and almost caused an accident. Better not try and pull them over, and check to see if they have a license and the car they are driving in registered. Oh no, side walk is crap so we'd better put vulnerable people with mobility issues into the road instead of focusing on fixing the sidewalk. You are just lazy and wrong.

[@webwarren]

@@mickleman52 I'd meant to say "enforcement" rather than regulation. Too often, we learn about unlicensed (or license-revoked, or license-suspended) drivers only after they Darwin Award themselves or some webcam somewhere captures the license plate of the vehicle they used to commit some other crime...

[@endstar967]

The thing is, single-person e-things are much more efficient as transportation solutions than a single person in a car. So, limit the speed of cars on local roads, and disable driver distractions like phones and touchscreens. Then, the e-stuff can use the roads, and get off the sidewalks and trails.

[@PRH123]

E-stuff can go on the road now, nothing stopping that. We ride our bicycles on the road after all.

[@delftfietser]

Efficient for some people. Every transport solution is built out of limits and compromises. Classify all e bikes as electric motorcycles. No change of laws, behaviors, or infrastructure required. Efficient.

[@growyourownfreedom2191]

Exactly the same principles should be applied fairly to all methods of transport!

[@jroobz]

boooo

[@MTBSPD]

In the US, most states have adopted a uniform model code: Class 1 & 2 are limited to 20 MPH, 750W. The Class 1's are pedal assist, the Class 2's are allowed a throttle. Class 1 & 2 are allowed on multi-use paths. Class 3's are limited to 28 MPH, 750W, and are pedal assist. Whether they are allowed on multi-use paths is a local decision. Then, we have a gazillion illegal, unlicensed electric motorbikes that go well over 28 MPH and have well over 750W.

[@TheGroupRide]

The problem is a lot are sold as class 1/2 with built in ability to remove the limiters. Some even sell the kits to replace the cranks & pedals with pegs. We all know this whole situation is unenforceable.

[@JonPaul]

@@TheGroupRide Yup, I don't care what laws on are on the books, none of them are enforced (in regards to ebikes).

[@danielgotz4032]

@@TheGroupRide Meanwhile many European countries prove that the situation is totally enforcable. German police does special traffic checks for tuned e-bikes. If you get caught riding a pedal assist bike whith removed limits, your bike will be confiscated, you will face 4-digit-fines and your driver's license might get revoked.

[@mauort6870]

@@danielgotz4032 I was about to say.. coming from LA to Germany a shock. In LA rules are noted, but ignored. here is soooo different

[@PRH123]

Amazingly stupid uniform code. Makes you think that the people who propose and pass such legislation must themselves never take a walk in the park with their dog and kids. Would you want your toddler sharing a path with 750 watt 30 mph 200 pound motorbikes. Mind boggling.

[@seattlegrrlie]

I own an ebike that can go 28mph and I mostly use it in roads as a commuter. I do ride it on shared paths but keep my speed around 12mph. That's being said, lots of regular non-moterized jerks ride on shared paths much faster. It's really that bikes ... NEED OUR OWN SPACE and shouldn't be on the same path as Grandma walking her dog

[@snowdrop629]

I live in a place called Eastbourne which is a beautiful seaside town in England. Sunny, gorgeous and well worth a visit , UNLESS you are a cyclist. You dare not ride along the seafront road , its dangerous like a video game with hazards. The local council are stuck in 1850 and cant think of opening the victorian promenade as a shared space… Any cyclist, restricted ebikes or whatever are seen as the devil, but you can drive a disabled buggy thing like an idiot wherever you like. Utter madness aided by sensational headlines about ‘ebikes’ . Love my town but hate it too!

[@JimS870]

I was waiting in a bike lane and a guy on a freaking SURRON blew past me in the bike lane and through a red light. That thing's a damn motorbike.

[@kimdecker8901]

California cyclist and motorist here: As far as my take on the e-bike sitch goes, I have this question: Since when did they start giving 12-year-olds class M licenses? 'Cause it appears that a lotta adolescents out here are riding what look, sound and speed to me like right proper motorcycles! Madness? I'd say so!

[@wwcyclery]

In the USA there are Three classes of eBikes (In the USA, an eBike is defined as a BICYCLE with an eMotor with a top speed of 20 MPH or 28 MPH depending on class) Class 1 e-bike, or electric bicycle, is a pedal-assist only bike that has a motor that assists the rider when they pedal. Class 1 e-bikes do not have a throttle and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 miles per hour (mph) Class 2 e-bike is an electric bicycle that has a throttle-assisted motor that allows the rider to go up to 20 miles per hour without pedaling. The motor ALSO provides pedal assistance, so the rider can use both the throttle and pedaling to power the bike. Class 3 e-bike, or speed pedal-assisted electric bicycle, is a bicycle with a motor that only assists the rider when they pedal, and stops when the bike reaches 28 miles per hour (mph). Class 3 e-bikes are the fastest legal e-bikes and are often used for high-powered commuting. They may also have a throttle, but its speed is usually capped at 20 mph.

[@gubsak55]

@wwcyclery Thank you very much for this information. As a European, I often get the impression that there are no rules for e-bikes in the USA. In Europe, we have strict rules, but I see there is really not much difference. In Germany (83 million people), 2.1 million new e-bikes are sold every year, and I never experience problems with illegal e-bikes. I have one myself, and I would not mind that it was a bit faster, but I can certainly live with the allowed speed. If I want to go faster, I have to use my roadbike, and that is what I do if I can.

[@tompage7394]

So sad to hear Manon is leaving. All the best to you Manon in whatever you do next!

[@gilesy62]

She will be missed. I enjoyed her episodes on the GCN Network.

[@quebecois57]

In Québec, Canada, they just banned electric motorbike (ride throttle «e-bikes») from using cycling paths AND road. They are simply prohibited on all roads, because they dont conform to register as a motor vehicule that is allowed to go on the road, and deemed too dangerous for cycling path. Many people are angry, cause they just bought one, but i think its a delight, they are way to speedy, heavy and driving carelessly for cycling paths in the cities.

[@dragonseyecycling8448]

I had my power turned off to save range and was biking at 8km on the sidewalk cause it was st jean in montreal and the bike is heavy so to slow to somewhat keep up with traffic. And some guy passed me and right hooked me into my leg I bounced off the front he said he sidint see me after passing a large white bike. Then tried to blame me by saying that's why there gonna ban those electric things bra I exploded it would have happened on my normal bike to that I can actually pedal faster than the ebike can. I said its cause you didint look and he gave me a grin and said have a nice day told him to go fuckhimself. Had a cyclist blow a red light in front of me making me have to react or t bone him luckily at low speed cause I was navigating a intersection. I was waiting to cross to the bike lane when he was on the same path but choose to deviate to the turning left only lane on the road. His choice but that means he gotta follow the light right. Apparently not. The light turns green for me I start to go I look right to look for cars turning left into my path and has I look forward cause coast is clear. This cyclist runs the red and I almost t bone him so I go to tell him that he should be careful and he says it's my fault cause the bike I was riding to heavy and dosemt belong in the bike path except on my regular bike it would have been the same exact situation. I regularly alternate from my bike to ebike to car to commute and can pedal my regular bike faster than most riders I even pass ebike doing 35km and ever since I got a single speed I been able to surpass 45km on flat ground not sure if they are giving the option to register but if not really is some bs

[@LordVarkson]

@@dragonseyecycling8448 Sounds like a you problem.

[@roninx12]

Remove the throttle, limit the speed to 20mph and you`re good to go.

[@dragonseyecycling8448]

@@roninx12 lol so 10km an hour is not limited enough for u ur a fucking ass hat I have a car that can reach 180km/h why is there no limiter in that oh yea cause u can still drive it responsibly

[@dragonseyecycling8448]

@@roninx12 my car can go 180km/h do I no it's called driving and riding with other people in mind my bike is also a off road vehicle and is heavy making the throttle the only way to control low speed and tight turns without shifting balance. I also have pedal assist so it's like a dual sport dirt bike in the sense that it can go on road and off road which makes having a throttle legal if used off road even the wattage can be turned up legally above the 500w cause it is not being used on the road I'm that sense but it's still allowed on the road has long has it follows speed and traffic laws

[@jansprij2858]

What I found really shocking when I drove (with my car) in the UK is the amount of cars and how people park and drive them. Cycling on a bike in the UK would be a nightmare to me. I can understand why people prefer the gravel bikes

[@chrisbigelow7390]

exactly . If you have experienced as a cyclist the typical angry british driver pulling down the window and shouting at you because you commited the sin of taking up a bit of their (rained down) road you know how it all feels . And we have GCN wanting to offer those kinds of people even more of a moral high ground with videos titled Ebikes are a THREAT . Think before you write @GCN

[@PRH123]

​@@chrisbigelow7390 think you missed the point of the video, it's e-tard misbehaviour that fuels the moral high ground, and whether GCN make a video or not that's the way it's heading

[@webwarren]

@@chrisbigelow7390 It's not just the British drivers who are "typical angry" at cyclists "taking up a bit of their... road". We get that here in the States as well (although this is less common in some areas than others, and also depending upon the time of day)...

[@flufflebut8781]

Right? I am cycling to avoid the stress of driving, to get away from cars, and here I am neck deep in them, with speeding cars squeezing past me on supposed "bike shared" roads.

[@fraserstewart4386]

I live, and cycle a normal bicycle, in Taiwan. There's basically 4 types of "e-bike" here. You've got the pedal assist ones, that are also used as city bikes (called Youbike), you've got the throttle assist ones, you've got the big chunky ones that kind of look like a motorbike, but are actually pedal assist bikes, and you've got electric scooters (called Gogoro here). Under Taiwanese law, the first three are treated as normal bicycles, meaning that you must ride at the side of the road, and if you want to make a left turn you have to use the pedestrian crossing system, like a pedestrian. Electric scooters are treated just like normal petrol powered scooters, meaning that you have to have a scooter license to ride it, and you are under the same laws and rules as a normal road vehicle. The major issue with riding any sort of bicycle in Taiwan is that other road users do not give you any room, or respect. It's actually very dangerous to ride a bicycle here because cars and scooters will pass you within mm (not an exaggeration), the thought being "if I don't touch you, then it's perfectly fine". Essentially, what you don't want is a situation where e-bikes are relegated to a "worst of all worlds" type situation. That is, can ride it on the roads, but not restricted to which roads because it's not really a road vehicle, but also can't use any cycle paths because it's not really a bicycle either.

[@ChrisCapoccia]

Legislation where I live in Ohio USA is clear about categories of ebikes, but I've also seen homemade gasoline (petrol) powered bicycles and the bigger problems are hooligans on unregistered off road motorbikes and lack of bicycle infrastructure

[@Cider4144]

An ebike is the only way I can enjoy the pleasures of being on a bike. I have a heart condition. Without the assistance I would be limited to a very local area due to the topography. My bike won't do more than 15mph and am regularly overtaken by "real" cyclists a number of whom ride very dangerously and are free with verbal in my direction. If the bike was to reclassified as a motorcycle I would lose the health benefits and pleasure of riding lovely paths because I could not afford the training to get a motorbike license. It seems the problems many in these comments refer to idiot riders and failure to clampdown on illegal bikes and mods. We are not all idiots on ebikes. Be careful demanding restrictions, registration , licence and insurance as you may find those ideas applied to everyone on all two wheelers.

[@Cider4144]

@@WhitbyActiveTravel I understand but was referencing a number of other commenters whose simplistic view that anything with a motor is a motorcycle and should be treated as such. This would have consequences for us law abiding folk. Unfortunately I don't see how your suggestion would make much difference either. Those who would break the law will not be deterred as is shown. My understanding is that a high powered ebike is already classed as a motorcycle with all associated requirements. Neither does the law have much impact on the illegal use of petrol mopeds. Two sides of the same coin and already with enough regulation in place. As usual, education and effective enforcement are the loophole the wrong uns exploit at the expense of everyone else.

[@gigglingchicken8444]

I agree with you. I think it's a great option for people who otherwise can't enjoy biking with out it! I personally love seeing everyone as I bike by them. It is just nice to see everyone enjoying the weather and it also means less people driving on the roads :) I will never vote to take that away from others. We do have police on bikes that I have seen pull over throttle bikers before on paths so it is possible to enforce what people are worried about.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

@@WhitbyActiveTravel read the stupid title of the video : ebikes are a THREAT and thats WHY . Is that a measured approach by GCN ? Did they even consider that the majority of the people using ebikes are typically well mannered and respectful people that have a good reason to use them (some just dont have the tip top physical condition to do a full days work and on top of it ride several miles on a non-assisted bike)

[@chrisbigelow7390]

@@gigglingchicken8444 thats what a lot of people have been dreaming for decades : personal eco friendly mobility for all

[@chrisbigelow7390]

@@gigglingchicken8444 thats a sensible measured approach - shocked of the shortsighted approach of GCN on that one

[@easternbrown]

#captioncomptition: Is it me or does the Italy kit make their Buttiol look big?

[@steveread1798]

I fear the situation with e-bikes. I used to fly model planes. They were classified in aviation law as a Drone. This wasn’t a problem, we generally flew at specific sites but when these quad copters became available and were flown in the street and at public events (football matches etc) they needed to be legislated. As we were using the same name (drone) we all got legislated against. The cost of legislation and testing is paid by all the types of flyers. Unfortunately it doesn’t stop irresponsible flying of quad copters, they just don’t have/display their registration number. So we have restriction, cost and registration for nothing.

[@flufflebut8781]

Good point. No point in legislation if there is no way to actually enforce it against the dangerous actors. From the prevalence of reckless car driving alone, it has long prove that enforcement has been the real challenge.

[@fxj8159]

People talk a lot about the threat of 20 kg bikes going 45 km/h instead of 25 km/h, but rarely does one suggest that we restrict the maximum speed on cars, although they can drive *at least* 50 km/h faster than they can legally a road with the highest speed limit. No reason why we shouldn't restrict their maximum speed. Agree with clear definitions on all types of e-bikes, though.

[@bottledspace]

The problem is that you don't usually have to share the bike lane with a car unless the driver is off their rocker.

[@leftaroundabout]

Don't really disagree that cars should be speed-limited too. There is a difference though in that cars have a number plate, so drivers can't really get away with driving too fast regularly. On an electric bike, if it can go faster than 25 km/h then it _will_ go faster than 25 km/h and the rider never gets punished. The only way to enforce such a limit is to hard-bake it into the bike. (Well, or mandate permanent GPS tracking, but that would be a rather totalitarian approach.)

[@growyourownfreedom2191]

Yeah are you saying we don’t have problems with speeding cars?

[@growyourownfreedom2191]

@@leftaroundabouthow many people die from speeding cars compared to speeding e bikes?

[@leftaroundabout]

@@growyourownfreedom2191 I'm saying cars should be speed-limited too, but in e-bikes it's more necessary. Of course, even a speeding e-bike is still less likely to kill someone than a speeding car is, but that doesn't mean it's a negligible risk. The problem is that the e-bike is moving in a space where lots of completely unprotected children etc. are also riding their bikes, whereas cars drive in a space where ideally no cyclist should need to be at all (given good enough cycling infrastructure).

[@Surestick88]

The 250 w, 25 km/h limit is really quite reasonable. It matches the normal cruising speed of a hybrid style bike on flat ground while being good for hills. Upping the wattage could probably be considered, at least for cargo bikes. The wattage is less important than the speed limit however. A bit more acceleration isn't that bad, it's top speed and speed difference that causes issues.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

I agree having often been on an bike/ebike with car drivers shouting off the top of their lungs just behind you because you dared to cycle on the far left of the road and that might mean that they might have to wait a couple of seconds more before they overtake you ... Also for many of us that have you been uphill on the bike before traffic lights with a queue of non patient car drivers ready to eat you alive just behind you if you dare to accelerate at a more normal pace ... There are many places were a little bit more power is handy for safety (speaking from daily all round the year commuter experience)

[@PRH123]

​@@chrisbigelow7390 well, ride a motorcycle and your safety fears will be resolved The solution isn't to let motorcycles onto bicycle and walking infrastructure

[@Metalshark100]

15mph for cruising speed is slow. on my commute I ride an Ebike and i see people on gravel and mtbs cruising around 18-19mph lol, i only know this because my ebike goes slightly above 15mph and i'm always cruising around 18mph. before i got an ebike i use to cruise at 20-25mph on my hybrid depending on wind direction. tyres make a huge difference on how fast you can cruise.

[@tonycrabtree3416]

@@Metalshark100 25kmh is really slow. Anyway, why limit it below 32kmh?

[@Metalshark100]

@@tonycrabtree3416 my ebike is limited to above 20mph by software, unless I use hardware to derestrict it there's a limit to what i can do software settings wise, but cruising around 18-19 is the most comfortable for me because I'm on shared path so i can slow down or stop if needed rather than going from 25 to 10 in an instant. its quick enough to get me to and from work and if needed i can go above 20 when its quiet.

[@krisb2038]

They are not a threat, we should embrace them as part of the mobility solution. Any light electric transport is a win, and especially if it gives the user physical activity. Any growth pains should not be a indicator to ban them, nor curse on the users. Solve the issues with infrastructure and behavior and everybody wins

[@ninjadudeofficial]

They didn't say they should be banned, just legistlated for properly in order to give better understanding and safety. Agreed, none of these bikes are inherently bad, but we need clearer distinctions to prevent further outrage and hazards. Admittedly, a lot of the needed legal work has been done and just needs better enforcement. But some sort of legal name requirement to make it more transparent about the different types does sound like a good idea, and better infrastructure to make everyone safer and encourage more active transport is always needed

[@borderlands6606]

I was on a motorcycle recently, and an e-bike ahead was travelling at a similar speed. I passed him at a junction, and for the next 5 minutes he was in my mirrors travelling at 40mph+ in a hilly area. He passed through most intersections without a sideways glance, never turned a pedal and seemed unaware of any other road user.

[@snowstrobe]

My concern is that these throttle-bikes get demonised due to rider behaviour. These bikes are a valid form of transport, and I think one of the more interesting strands for more research and development. We need to keep that going, these things are still a thousand times better than cars. I think the throttle-bikes must be restricted to adults with a motorbike licences only, with a legal speed limit when on bike lanes (not roads). The delivery riders need to be regulated and the companies employing them expected to take responsibilty. A 'fear that someone somewhere will bring in restrictive legislation' is weird framing given that there is already restrictive legislation. Why are bikes being speed regulated but not cars?

[@dragonseyecycling8448]

Not sure in the UK but in Canada you can just get on a gas scooter with a car license has long has its insured and registered of course but the point is you dont need a motorcycle license for something that can go 70km/h so my point is unless it exceeds the speeds of those scooters a drivers license should be sufficient like u said its rider behavior I've heard all the complaints very similar to these about cyclist in general. Usually because of minority of individuals being unpleasant. Example saw a man in his 40s on road bike yelling at kids for not letting him pass. Not only were they really young and had a parent with them but by the rules of the road he should have yeild anyways cause there was a tree on his side obstructing the path still had to yell at kids though for making him stop.

[@LordVarkson]

Actual electric motorcycles do exist though. Throttle ebikes are effectively just a slower version of that, like a moped to a motorcycle.

[@snowstrobe]

@@LordVarkson There are still versions inbetween all that exists which are yet to be developed that will have a use. I speak from a personal position on that. They do not need to be slower.

[@snowstrobe]

@@dragonseyecycling8448 I was thinking that maybe a new licence catagory could be developed for these things, along with a training and testing regime to ensure safety. Maybe something that 17-18 year olds are allowed to get.

[@PRH123]

​@@snowstrobemost countries do have a simplified moped license, and a lower eligibility age So it already exists, it just needs to be applied to e-bikes with power and speed above the limit

[@markjthomson]

Lael is a legend! I rode down and met with her, about 5 of us rode back to the Airport. I met her about where the marker was on the video! Good day for a ride and great company. Looking forward to riding with Vedangi as she rides through as well.

[@robbybobbyhobbies]

We have this debate every summer in Whistler. At root, cyclists and pedestrians are the problem (on our tarmac trails around town), not acoustic vs throttle vs non-throttle eBikes etc. For instance I can go far quicker on my road bike than I can on my (unmodified) eMTB. And I can ride either in places where pedestrians can also walk/jog. Without care, accidents can happen. With care, from both cyclists and pedestrians, we can all go about our business without hassle.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

perfectly said .Would have expected a similar measured approach from GCN rather than caps lock THREAT childish video titles

[@PRH123]

Not quite clear what you're trying to say, but if the proposed solution is that everyone behave with care, it's obviously never going to happen. Pedestrians are never the problem. They will walk how they walk with their kids and dogs and strollers and have every right to, that's inalienable 30 years of experience shows that people who ride real bicycles slowly on paths mix well with pedestrians. People who want to ride bicycles fast don't like riding on paths, and so we ride on the road. The problem is powerful, heavy and fast electric vehicles that are actually not bikes, but are motorcycles, being ridden on walking and cycling infrastructure. Classify them correctly as road vehicles and there are no problems at all, situation resolved.

[@Shadowboost]

The main problem is people calling bikes acoustic. Just don't

[@robbybobbyhobbies]

@@Shadowboost ha. Tell me, oh great arbiter, what you would call them :). It’s kind of ingrained over here, having gone through the ironic phase into the broadly accepted phase.

[@Shadowboost]

@@robbybobbyhobbies understand that the term acoustic refers to sound. A bicycle is just that, a two wheeled machine powered by pedaling. An e-bike is a electric motor assisted bicycle. Just because some idiot tried to make a bicycle term align with a guitar doesn't make any sense

[@einundsiebenziger5488]

No matter if e-bike or regular bike, the greatest threat to cyclists are other cyclists permanently watching their phones while riding and not paying attention to what's around them. Cycling infrastructure has vastly improved in my area in the last few years and I had almost no trouble with car when out riding, but I have a near crash with a cycling phone zombie almost every time.

[@Timberius]

One thing that's very dangerous, is these new extremely bright front lights, that blind you when they're oncoming in the evening. They're super bright, illegal, and a huge annoyance.

[@greghart6310]

Are you refering to bicycle lights? I'd rather be able to see whats coming than ride by braille. I've yet to see a bicycle light that has the power of car headlights (although apparently one or two have come to market). Why shouldn't bikes have the same level of illumination as a car? Surely we need to see the road equally as much? I'm often doing speeds on downhills where distance visibility is highly desirable.

[@edst8600]

@@greghart6310 High quality front lights reflect upper portion of light stream into the ground away from pedestrian (and drivers) eyes

[@thefucrew9865]

Thank you, Manon !!! For everything you have done for cycling, for GCN, and the fans !!! Good luck in your future endeavors !!!

[@oregonebikermark8953]

In my state of Oregon e-bikes can go up to Class 3 28mph. 1,000 Watt Motor (no restriction on voltage) that i know of.

[@NELSON3947]

BIG problem in the UK is the modified e-bikes and converted bikes using Amazon kits. These bikes are then hooning around on the foot/bike paths...A favorite with the county lines runners!

[@carlbenfield2971]

These things are essentially the new mopeds and low cc motorbikes of old that young lads loved. All the kids at work have modified and taken the limiters off these monsters. They are now motorbikes using cycling and pedestrian infrastructure which is crazy.

[@barryrobbins7694]

As was said in the video, many people don’t know the difference between the different e-bikes and bikes. Ferraris can be driven on the road, they just can’t be driven like they would be driven on a track. On a bike path, any vehicle should keep below the speed limit, create no motor exhaust, and there should also be dimensional limits. Some other attributes might also be important. Other than that, who cares what it is called. Powerful off-road e-bikes are a whole other issue.

[@goingoutotheparty1]

I have a fat tyre Ebike and commute all year round on the rough roads (4 years now) I'm polite and on great terms with the regular cycling commuters it's only the fair weather elite cyclists that come out of their cars and onto their analogue bikes in summer and try to judge me, that annoys me a bit

[@stevenwiedel3122]

I live in a semi-rural area of the western USA and ride a class 3 [28mph] Bosch pedal-assist bicycle. People I speak with are curious and interested in the bike & the tech. I always point out the difference between a pedal assist bicycle, and those with a throttle. A pedal assist e-bike is still a human powered bicycle, with assistance. A throttle equipped electric motor bicycle is a motorbike. They are not the same thing, and should be legislated differently imho. Most of the throttle e-bikes I have seen are generally cheaper sh*t and sold to non-cyclists, thus increasing the danger to us all. Just a thought

[@kevcroft2815]

August is nearly winter?! How glass half empty can you get?!

[@Keep_On_Bricking]

Got the DYU King 750 e bike recently which can go up to 45km/h with throttle only. I'm living in EU and I assume that 25km/h is legit limit so not trying to do silly things in city where that could lead to a conversation with police. I have noticed that just because it has all the power it does not mean I want to use it all the time. It is a completely fulfilling drive to get it up to 30 km/h and let it coast. There are no regenerative brake system so every push of brakes is like a waste of range so my mind has already adjusted to drive in the best way for the range.

[@lizzyrogers783]

From barely ever having cycled to 2000 miles in a few years - my Gazelle ebike transformed my life! Living with a connective tissue disorder, I struggled with traditional bikes, but my ebike's boost empowers me to ride even on tough days. I'm grateful for the freedom it brings and for GCN convincing me to give it a try. Let's keep it real, though - throttles don't belong on ebikes; that's just a scooter.

[@davestokes3446]

Throttles do help a lot when starting off both at busy traffic lights and up steep hills.

[@lizzyrogers783]

@@davestokes3446 that fine if you want to use something with a throttle but if you don't need to pedal, it's not an ebike, it's a scooter and there should be different regulations for each.

[@flufflebut8781]

I like the throttle since the assisted pedaling makes it way too easy for me. I end up going much faster than the leisurely 10mph I am comfortable with. The throttle is invaluable for that extra acceleration at stop and go traffic, or monster hills. I can dial in exactly as much help I need and muscle through the rest, no nonsense with the motor overkilling it. And I can pedal normally with just muscle the 90% of the rest of the time.

[@davestokes3446]

@@lizzyrogers783 Wrong, on several fronts. The law allows a throttle assist for starting off, but it should cut out a about 5 m.p.h. You are also allowed a throttle for wheeling a bike. If the motor on a bike doesn't comply with the law, then the bike becomes a motorbike, not a scooter. The difference will become important when the law catches up.

[@douye]

Here in Northern California e-bikers have gone bonkers. Parents have given their pre-teens and up the equivalent of a moped. No license, some helmets and zero training. They and almost all of the older riders are a menace to cyclists, pedestrians and themselves. Little kids fly around the roads and sidewalks because that is what kids do. Tourists on e-bikes who have no knowledge of cycling etiquette zoom past my shoulder without warning. To be sure, many of the peleton bros behave the same and ride 4 abreast, but they are much slower the e-bikers. We are scheduled to get our first bike only path along the coast but I dread riding with the digital crew. Paths should be for analog riders only.

[@JMcLeodKC711]

My biggest problem with class 3 e-bikes is that they’re considered “bikes” here in North Carolina (USA). They’re too fast, large and heavy to be considered bikes and not motorcycles.

[@tkejlboom]

The Skitch is not larger or heavier than most bikes. At a certain point, you just have to regulate dangerous activities. If anyone on any vehicle, whether it has a motor or not, is blasting through a crowd at 28 mph, they need to be held accountable.

[@jed7644]

I live in a town where any form of a motorized conveyance is prohibited on municipal bike paths. Our federal Americans w/ Disabilities Act trumps local code, but our code effectively prohibits mobility scooters & powered wheelchairs, so illegally derestricted ebikes are a bit of a no-brainer. I was hit from behind last summer by a derestricted 29er that was doing no less than 40 mph. I was winding it down after a 50k rip around the lumpy side of the county, doing around 21 mph (42:14 @ 90 rpm on a 700C LeTour). So I start riding on the street on Christmas Day of 1967 & spend the next 55+ yrs looking over my shoulder, wondering if today’s the day, & it’s a damned ebike on a path that puts in the ER w/ a broken wrist & a torn rotator cuff. It didn’t do a vintage LeTour any good either. After several thousand dollars in costs & months of recovery & rehab my entire season this year has been about restoring _last_ year’s conditioning. As annoying as that is, the part where guys like that will absolutely inspire a police presence in a place where it’s never been needed is _more_ annoying. One thing I like(d) most about our municipal path system is that it’s always been self-policing. Responsible people, each doing their own thing with due regard for one another & absolutely no sign of unneeded law enforcement anywhere in the 30 yrs since we started building out that system. Misbehavior w/ illegally modified & operated e-bikes will end that in short order, though, & it’ll be a handful of idiots blaming anybody but themselves for the intrusions of previously non-existent law enforcement.

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

Those aren't bike paths then. They are shared paths for walking. Also, how malfunctioning is a disabilities act that prohibits the use of motorized wheelchairs?

[@jed7644]

The disabilities act that prohibits powered wheelchairs would be about as functional as those that reply to KZbin comments w/out actually _reading_ or correctly interpreting the comment they’re replying to. Reiterating for you alone - we have _local code_ that prohibits any form of a powered conveyance with no listed exceptions. This _ordinance_ predates the ADA. It was written & passed in a time when 2-stroke mopeds & minibikes with lawn mower engines were turning up on neighborhood sidewalks. The ADA of 1990 of course, would prevent enforcement action against the users of mobility devices for the handicapped. This is a common hazard of Federalism. Mobility scooters, powered wheelchairs & _e-bikes_ weren’t contemplated issues when our city council addressed the problem of powered conveyances on municipal sidewalks. The only update that I know of since relates to new paths that, at the time, were in fact seen as extensions of sidewalks. Additionally, & if I’m not mistaken, it was at that time that language prohiting anybody older than age 10 from riding a conventional bicycle on a sidewalk or path was repealed. Nothing I’ve said, btw, disregards walkers. Traditional cyclists have always respected walkers here, & for the most part we take care to avoid so much as startling a walker. I’ve literally never heard of a walker being hit by a cyclist as I was by an ebike, & the walkers don’t always make it easy - _&_ they have every right to be there using the paths. They have every right to wear buds while they walk, & to walk two or three or four or more abreast if they care to. We work it out, reasonably & respectfully.

[@davidbadea1360]

It's one of the most informative gcn show episodes, I can't wait to see our favourite finish australian on the show.

[@jansonmur4362]

Caption: Got that 20-20 vision for ya * smack sound* Or Alberto Bettiol's hindsight is 20-20

[@gcn]

👀

[@maxw9101]

Seattle resident here. E-bikes open up cycling, and there's probably one in my future - but more bikes on existing infrastructure requires people to learn how to ride. Two recent examples: (1) E-bike rider slams on his brakes at the last moment and pulls over to let me pass when he thinks the gap between a stroller and oncoming traffic is too small (it wasn't, and if it's too small for him, it's also too small for me!), resulting in a pile-up of bikes. (2) Two e-bike riders gabbing and oscillating between 18 mph (off in the distance) and 12 mph (I'm catching up and passing).

[@lefthanded32g50]

here's the thing. I'm 15. My parents can't take me to and from school because they have to work. Getting insurance would be expensive. I have to ride an e-bike 15 miles to school. An unregulated e-bike allows me to cut my commute in half. Most people who get e-bikes are commuters, not cyclists. Don't you start to see the issue

[@cragmc8386]

As long as you cycle within the speed limit I don't see any problem

[@leftaroundabout]

If you're commuting 15 miles to school then this is presumably on rural roads. I don't think many people mind fast electrobikes there. The problem is when they're ridden on city bike lanes.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

GCN should have thought about many people like you before labelling them a THREAT . Many people today commute on a bike because they need to .Some because they are students like you , others because it save money that needs to go to other life vitalities

[@iandavis5189]

@chrisbigelow7390 Or the many, many people with health conditions and those no longer in their prime, for whom ebikes are their only way of getting out and about into the fresh air.

[@Sustainable_Engineer]

@@leftaroundabout I agree with @cragmc8386. So long as they obey the speed limit and other traffic laws, it's fine

[@benbeelerfitness2595]

I ride a Stromer ST2 in San Francisco that goes up to 28mph. I haven't had any issue riding with cyclists, but my preference would be for it to be a little faster so I could share the road with cars more.

[@bottledspace]

In Portland, people on pocket bikes and throttle assist ebikes whip past pedestrians going well over 30 on shared used paths. It doesn't happen often, but they usually pass so close to you that you can feel the air pressure differential. Those riders are just dub knobs and if I could, I'd make throttle-assist bikes only legal on roads. They are - for all intents and purposes - electric motorcycles if we're really being honest here. Pedal assist is fine up to the 28mph limit, but id wager it's because those bikes are usually prohibitively expensive to the idiots whereas you can grab a throttle bike for $1k.

[@growyourownfreedom2191]

What if you are disabled and need the throttle?

[@flufflebut8781]

It is less the throttle and more the illegal speeding itself that is the issue, no? I have seen pedal-assist ebikes being pedaled and getting to 30mph on local trails even without a throttle.

[@switchbackjunkie1]

We also need a distinction for cargo bikes. A throttle is nice to get it through intersections.

[@lacucaracha111111]

Thats not just an ebike issue, but a bike issue in general: Dont drive like asshats ---> you are on a shared path, you keep the speed of most around you

[@chrisbigelow7390]

perfectly said - its the user not the bikes/ebikes . One can kill on a no brake fixie or a BMX . Use your brains before labelling them a THREAT @GCN

[@jimlawton4184]

I personally see far too many motorbikes and gas powered vehicles along the mixed use pedestrian/bike path along the river. This is the like for me. Sure, some e-bikes might travel too fast especially if they’ve had the limiter altered. But I and almost everyone I see slows down for pedestrians and passes safely. But it’s with a quiet eco-friendly motor. Once you allow people to ride dirt bikes on the trails there’s the extra noise of the engine and the smell of the gas fumes. It’s really awful. We need to find a way to get these idiots off our paths

[@aaronhill7599]

My local county has been threatening to create a speed limit for our local bike/walking path network. I’ve been lobbying them to not implement a speed limit they can’t enforce and to instead ban Class 3 e-bikes. They are the problem. And are often ridden by people who don’t have any bike handling skills.

[@SpicyTrifongo]

The American River Bike Trail in Sacramento is one of the most beautiful and well maintained bike paths I have ever seen. 32 miles snaking along a river, crossing a road only once. 15mph limit on the whole thing. There is absolutely zero enforcement. There is also almost no grounds for enforcement, because the law does not expect or require a bicycle to have a speedometer, so the suspect has no reasonable expectations of knowing their speed.

[@jed7644]

There’s the biggest single issue with e-bikes, I think. Most who are attracted to them don’t have histories or experience w/ cycling. Even the careful & responsible among them don’t really know what they’re doing.

[@scopie49]

@@jed7644 Not knowing what you're doing on a bike is a great way to eat pavement. It takes a long time to build skill and confidence in handling corners at speed. E-bikes are great but I feel it's way too easy for the uneducated to just be able to buy one and take off. It's like they don't ever build up the respect for cycling rules and etiquette. Plus most drivers don't even seem to know road rules so I expect E-bike users to be just as casual with following laws in some situations.

[@Keep_On_Bricking]

BTW the class 3 e bikes are usually the heaviest as well ! And they are probably having the same brakes like lower class bikes!!

[@JMulvy]

In the US we have Class 1, 2, & 3 e-bikes. Class 1 is PAS only and go up to 20 MPH. Class 2 has throttle and still only goes up to 20 MPH. It is designed to give your legs a rest from pedaling, but still allow you to climb hills and get up to speed when turning into streets. Class 3 is PAS and, or throttle but can reach speeds of 28-30 MPH and does not exceed 750 W (?). It does depend on regulation from state to state. I have a Class 3 ebike in Massachusetts which requires you to be 16 yo. and have a valid driver's license, but I do not ride the bike lanes unless I am coasting or pedaling with PAS 1 (I have yet to need more than PAS2 because it also has a 7 speed shift), I prefer to take my place in the center of the driving lane with the rest of traffic and go with the flow, using hand signals, brake lights, etc. I don't care if people like it or not. The only time I use the throttle is to get through intersections and when coming out from a complete stop so I am not in the way of oncoming traffic. Anyways what we have a problem with are unclassified e-bikes. I saw a video where a guy was telling a cop that his battery "750" and the cop accepted it and wished them well, once the cop left he told his friend ON VIDEO that it was really 7500 W. We call these electric motorcycles and they are 100% illegal in the entirety of the US without a motorcycle license and there was no way this 14 yo kid had a motorcycle license. 🙄 I think what the US needs to do is actually define the unclassified e-bikes as "other" and decide how to handle them as a general designation. The next step up from there are mopeds which require license, registration, and insurance then up from there are motorcycles which require the same. I wanna say we have been aware of them since the early 90s because there was this craze for "mini bikes" which where electric or gas powered, miniature motorcycles and they caused all kinds of havoc for more than a decade. Many states ended up banning them outright.

[@jujurm]

Actually Tom Dumoulin would translate to Tom fromthewindmill not to twowindmills (deuxmoulins) But I guess Ollie with his new French class has already got to you to set the point 😂

[@helendale7668]

Moulin isn't necessarily a windmill either... could be any type of mill, probably just as likely to be a water mill 🤣🤣

[@jujurm]

@@helendale7668 yeah sure is, but I have to admit that I didn’t push the thinking this far 😂

[@bobalinga]

A surprising number of e-bike (uk legal) riders rarely make the 15mph when the assist cuts off. I only do going downhill. You see most pootling along at 10-12 mph same as unassisted bicycles. I think MP's need to learn the difference between those E-assist bikes and the unrestricted bikes/motorbikes that do whizz past us. They aren't pedalling!

[@erikdali983]

Problem with e-bikes for me is that most people who rent them cannot handle the e-bikes safely. I’ve had more close encounters with e-bikes that cars.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

There are many sensible owners who do not deserve to be called a THREAT (awful title of this video) and there are some people who rent anything from a scooter to a yacht and are incapable of controlling them sensibly . It's the user not the machine

[@prestachuck2867]

@@chrisbigelow7390Unfortunately, there is no way for authorities to regulate and enforce laws about being a jerk or an idiot, and some people actually consider being an idiot and jerk to be something to be proud of, so the only thing that can be effectively regulated (if they actually want to) is hardware.

[@didzakov]

Nice discussion point here I must say, great job GCN team. Lately here in Zagreb, Croatia we have had a flood of "e-bikes" delivering food and and other goods. In a hurry to deliver more of it in less time to increase their profit margins, delivery teams are using unrestricted e-bikes and are doing those crazy speeds of up to 50kmh. All that is done while not respecting pedestrian paths, going over pedestrian crossing where no bike lanes are marked and generally making it hard to predict them coming that fast for all: cars, other bikes, pedestrians.. Several accidents happen every week and am afraid it is only a matter of time to hear some really bad news. In a sincere hope that will not be the case anytime soon and that the government here will react soon to prohibit such behavior asap.

[@jeffreylee5770]

High powered throttle e-bikes are a hazard on bike trails. They go too fast around bikes, regular e-bikes and pedestrians. They are also not fast enough to keep up with cars, so they are really at home in no terrain at all, but they can be used safely in low speed high density city areas as long as they don't go too fast and stay off the bike lanes.

[@renegadetenor]

The 28 mph ones are very tough to beat. You have to be very opportunistic, just pounce at the right instant, never informing them its a race, or where the start and finish are. The start is when you pounce, the finish is about 5 seconds after you drop them, and you conveniently have arrived at your exit point. Then raise arms in victory, to the amazement of many cats sitting in windows, waiting all day for such a dramatic display of of cycling prowess!

[@gregknipe8772]

as a life time cyclist, I have been saying this about" E-bike fever" since the first electric motorcycle with peddles was sold on the streets. E-bikes and the new "GRAVEL BIKERS" have become the car drivers of bike lanes and mixed use trails. ???MOTORS BELONG ON MOTOR ROUTES. you can put peddles on a Harley Davidson, that does not make it a bicycle.

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

I watched the women's road race because I heard the end was a banger. It was great. Kristen Faulkner tactics were killer. NBC never mentioned her in the first hour of the race except to mention she was riding and not in the lead up to her making a move. The women of NYC cycling communities were all giddy that it was someone just like most of us who took up riding for stress. It was fun listening to the announcers suddenly talk about her without acknowledging how out of nowhere it was for them. If you find any footage of the medal ceremony, I'd appreciate it. Pretty please! I popped over here because NBC did NOT include that in the replay. Like I watched a whole bike race, I want to see the medal ceremony! GCN+/Eurosports just do a better job of covering cycling. And I was hoping you might mention it. EDITED: I found it! I knew you'd have it! (I love that I totally missed it in chapters.)

[@RM-zq3np]

I’ve been riding a bike to work for 22 years. I’ve learned to manage my speed on bike paths, in crowds, by training and getting stronger a little bit at a time, over two decades. But today some yahoo can buy an ebike and that same day can hit 30 mph, on the bike path, in crowds… with no experience or judgement. Very dangerous.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

its the user and not the machine - correct

[@damnson666]

The main problem is the current legislation and lack of regulation. 1.There should be limit on speed and not power. For cargo bikes the 250w is too low, and should be raised to 750w. I know that in UK it was suggested to raise the limit to 500w and I'd be happy with that. I have good push bike and a cargo ebike. For around 5mile journey I average about the same speed on both bikes as I can go much faster on flat and downhills with push bike than my ebike, which is limited to 15mph. 2. Currently, it is impossible to register your overpowered ebike to make it legal, and there are no equivalent legal options available. I'd be happy to register my bike if it were possible. My cargo bike essentially replaces car and I use it to transport equipment I need. So right now we are in a situation where illegal ebikes have become popular and police only does random checks once in a blue moon, and the confiscated bikes are scrapped, which is massive waste.

[@connorparadis4804]

Definitely need some regulation around e-bikes... but can we put speed limiters on the multi-ton death machines while we're at it???

[@drewsmith7726]

This comment needs WAY more thumbs up!!!

[@chrisbigelow7390]

Momentum my friend . A truck at 20mph will kill you because of momentum (velocity x mass) .Speed limiting everything is not an answer

[@branbroken]

The regulation is there, in all the major places some form or legal restrictions and class definitions are in place, that's not the problem. Where the problem is is people either not understanding those regulations (which is in part due to manufacturers/marketing intentionally bluring the lines to sell stuff) or worse intentionally going against regulation (either by missusing or modifying the equipment) primarily because they know theres little to no punnishment even if caught. What is needed is both wider publicity on the existing regulations (including clearer/stricter naming standards for manufacturers/retailers) and wider and stronger enforcement of the regulations.

[@ianmcnally8501]

I like that Bristol solution! Slow bikes can share the bike lane with peds and fast bikes can mix it up with the cars in the fast bike lane, win win!

[@Music-pq8cm]

A motor is a motor … whether electric or internal combustion. An ebike is a motorized cycle (a motorcycle). No motorized vehicles should be permitted on any trail, path or lane designed for non motorized human powered transportation modes. An ebike should also require a drivers license created specifically for e-bikes. Ebikes should be required to pass inspection and should be required to display a plate indicating inspection and registration. Ebikes violating ebike regulations should be impounded and the rider fined. None of this would be necessary if people weren’t generally so clueless, entitled and irresponsible.

[@TheMelchoir]

Canadian residence here: My co-workers use(very loosely) eBikes as alternative commuter to vehicles. Admirable to stop contributing to pollutions and saving the environment. Regarding their operations; well... they are used as low-powered motorcycle. Often they confess that the bikes are operated at full power(5). One co-worker was at par in speed to another co-worker's travelling on the road. My concern is the eBike co-worker would alter between road, sidewalk and bike path and vice-versa at full-throttle. He justified by confess to disliking high-intense activities and sweating. Perhaps I'm antiquated resisting the inevitable, all I know is loss of use begins with misuse.

[@lancelotandrewes1175]

Outlaw e-bikes. Motorized vehicles have no business in the bike lane. If you don't want to ride a bicycle, don't.

[@jeremyedwards3612]

Have you been to the Netherlands. A full range of electric light vehicles and bikes mix with regular bikes really safely.

[@siimot]

Nothing wrong with pedal assist ebikes at all, They are only really faster than a normal bike uphill.

[@michaelwillis4528]

You need to not look at bikes as leisure or fitness here but as viable alternatives to cars. That is where e-bikes should be fully supported in terms of allowing sensible infrastructure to include them.

[@JZTechEngineering]

RIP to anyone who has to commute with lots of stuff, or deal with hills

[@drill_fiend1097]

And they will instead ride cars and ask the city council to remove bike lanes. Is this what you want, gatekeeping and reducing bike advocacy in the process? I've had worse experiences with rude, screaming fixie riders weaving in and out of traffic and cutting in front of my bike than eBikers. Not even rich teenagers on fat tire eBike bothered me as much.

[@billincolumbia]

That shower is a perfect hack for Hank at his self-proclaimed 4' 10".

[@LexReinhart]

E-Bikes... yes, I have a real-life story to share. A friend of mine, whose name and contact I can send you by email if you wish, was cycling on his e-bike (50 km/h) on a separate cycling lane in the canton of Zurich, Switzerland. A woman, also on a similar e-bike, came from the opposite direction on the same lane and made a maneuver mistake. As a result, they collided; two times 50 km/h makes around 100 km/h... The woman died on the spot. My friend was heavily injured; he survived but is now partially handicapped and suffers from permanent headaches.

[@mauricetremblay1324]

In Canada, we have some people on throttled e-bikes and those single wheel (I will call them) speeders where on the bike paths they show little regard when passing or pushing between opposing bike traffic. I am not as worried about the speed per se if you drive safely. But at over 45 kmph on bike lanes , wreck less driving could be fatal where the limit is at to 20 kmph. I tried to catch one of those single wheel things and even pedalling at 45 kmph he just disappeared in front of me which leads me to believe that he was well over 50 kmph in a closed off bike lane.

[@michelc22222]

In Quebec, they just put out a new rules, if it look like a moped, act like a moped, it's a moped so not allowed in bike lane and street

[@PRH123]

Awesome, as it should be.

[@sanatandharma4435]

Interesting! You don't see many throttle e bikes here in Asturias (N.Spain) but racing cycling is quite common here with large groups of Spaniards eating up the road. I have a Specialised e bike and love it! It is still very fast and with it's weight could seriously hurt someone if I hit them! Cycle/pedestrian lanes are clearly marked on most paved tracks and have a speed limit painted on the ground. So there is limited segregation but distinctions over two wheeled electric scooters, normal e bikes, throttle e bikes do need addressing! It's like helmet wearing laws. Good article lads, thank you.

[@DavidCowie2022]

Regarding the Transdinarica Balkan route: urban exploration type Shiey has a video about cycling to the Adriatic. In one section, he rides past some woods with warning signs about land mines. I bet Transdinarica carefully avoids those sorts of places.

[@fastfreddy19641]

In my town some lads are riding e motorbikes with no helmets, or light, reg plates on roads. They clearly have not been trained to ride safely. The police seem not to do anything.

[@oystercatcher943]

Totally spot on comments on e-bikes. They are very important for sustainable transport. It needs sorting out as it’ll get much worse quickly

[@aljaliah6868]

In LONDON, most of the Deliveroo and Uber Eats e-bike meal courier bikes have been pimped to do more than 30 MPH which in conjunction with the fact that the riders CANNOT ride makes them the most dangerous moving items in the capital !!! Time for licensing compliance and enforcement !!! Are you listening Sadiq ? You can scam under the guise of safety and make some more money !!!

[@richard0202]

It's not just London, in Newcastle I've seen delivery riders accelerate without pedalling past the police, with no response, they either don't understand the law or can't be bothered. We don't need new legislation, just enforcement.

[@aljaliah6868]

@@richard0202 Cannot be bothered !!! That’s the truth !!! I try to get their attention on so many occasions when I am on my bike and / or driving my car and they initially pretend to be looking into the sky (is it a bird or superman) and after several attempts from me they acknowledge with a “well, what do you want me to do about it?“ !!! Disgusting behavior and should be a sackable offence !!! They get paid to do a job and they refuse to do it

[@tobiasb8086]

I'd be more afraid of car drivers that don't know how to drive. If you really think a pimped e-bike is "the most dangerous moving item in the capital", you should watch GCN's video "Carspiracy". Spoiler alert! Cars are still the most dangerous moving items in the capital.

[@FredFox-m9v]

Mainstream manufacturers probably hate cheap e bikes, because a fast ordinary carbon bike is about £5k and upwards, yet you can buy a cheap 250 watt e bike for just over £1k, frig the speed limiter and it will be mostly faster than a £5k bike, with a fairly fast club rider on it, particularly into the wind or uphill. That means these big manufacturers like cannondale etc. will lose higher value trade massively now, apart from to dedicated lycra types, which are diminishing in number anyway.

[@scottishcontentcreators]

The UK laws around e bicycles are a mess. You have to have front and rear facing reflectors on your pedals but you don't have to wear a helmet. Pedal assist can only help up to 15 mph but there are no speed limits on cycleways. You can go as fast as you can pedal as long as you're not pedalling furiously. Has anyone actually ever been prosecuted on the basis their cadence was considered to be at a furious pace? I work as a delivery driver, white van man, I also ride an e bicycle and I also ride ordinary bicycles and I sometimes walk so I kinda see the subject from lots of different angles. As a maniac van driver, I always give cyclists and pedestrians the time and space they need, as an e bike rider and occasional vintage road bike rider I always give way to pedestrians and pets and I'll slow down or dismount if I think I should for safety reasons and as a pedestrian I expect cyclists and motorists to give me room and time so I feel safe.

[@gs_weiss]

I pointed out a bit of infrastructure to my council member in my city where a painted bike lane abruptly ended at a curb bump out just a car length before it crossed with a multi use off street path, forcing you to leave the bike lane and enter traffic to get on the off street path. He saw the problem first hand with me and last I've heard it's scheduled to be fixed. Sometime all you have to do is ask.

[@stevecochrane5376]

Lads, 170 kms per day here in NZ is impressive. The roads a crap , the terrain, is lumpy ( but pretty). There is a winter blast happening , so its cold and windy. The road service is coarse. Nothing like France or even the USA. So absolutely full credit to these riders chasing the the world record. 100 per effort required ! 100 per cent respect offered.

[@krisb2038]

In Belgium, speed pedelecs are not with a throttle. You still have to pedal and are limited to 45kph. We are allowed to use cycle paths as well as roads that are

[@neilbaker6212]

I sit on a county access forum. I agree with your concerns e-bikes are beingcompared to motorcycles. I spoke up for e-bikes, and the forum asked for better clearer legislation. The situation is even more nuanced when you consider persons with reduced mobility.. I believe they should have more flexible rules particularly the use of throttles if they cannot pedal. E-cyclist will have to lobby for thesechanges. I ride both a normal gravel and an emtb.

[@jakecalderburby]

E-bikes with a throttle are not e-bikes- they are motorcycles. Simple. More distinction is needed between the two…

[@maasro]

2:37 Dumoulin (as in Tom's last name) is actually a contraction of du moulin, of the mill, not two windmills (note that in the south of Limburg, watermills were at least as abundant as windmills, so it's shaky to assume he was named after a windmill).

[@gregsettle9725]

It's not the bikes that are the problem, it's the riders!

[@matthewpayer2835]

As a commuter, a throttle is absolutely vital, to get clear of cars from an intersection, 28mph isnt fast enough, because most streets in the US are 25-35mph, and people go 7-10mph over. At 28, in a 35, with average soeed being 40+ youre just a target. My bike can roll at 33-35 with me pedaling, and burst up to 38 on the throttle. My commute is 24 miles a day total, in the Philadelphia suburbs. I invite anyone to try it for a week and then talk about speed limits and throttles in relation to ebike safety...all you drivers...put you freaking phone down.

[@alexbonzi]

Si: ‘Make sure you have next Monday in your calendars…’ cheers Si: had to make sure I wasn’t sold one of those knock off 6 day calendars!

[@SwimBikeRunFastest]

We were in Tenerife a few weeks back and had many near misses with e-scooters. I'll be surprised if they don't regulate as there is bound to be injuries. I had nothing against e-bikes until this Monday gone. I was walking along a pavement and saw an ebiker from more than 250m away going very fast. He saw me but didn't slow down. I stopped and he didn't slow down. I stepped to the side, worried that he'd hit me if I didn't move and he still didn't slow down. I couldn't move over any further as there was a brick wall beside me. The biker passed with only 5cm between us doing I'd guess 15-20 maybe even 25 mph. The wind moved my t-shirt. He had no control. If I hadn't moved he'd have hit me. If he had encountered any problems he would have hit me. Only 5m past me was the end of a blind footpath between two fences. If anyone had stepped out there is no way in the world he could have stopped. If the pedestrian was a child or an older adult, there would have been significant injuries, maybe even death if there were head injuries. It's no less dangerous than riding a motorbike on a pavement albeit one with terrible brakes and a rider that may not have passed a CBT.

[@GeekonaBike]

Pro tip: seatch supeglue & backing soda for very fast permanent repairs

[@prestachuck2867]

Guitar repair techs sometimes use super glue and baking soda to repair damaged plastic parts. It works very well, and can be shaped by filing and sanding.

[@michaelwillis4528]

I think the 15.5mph restriction should be increased to 20mph to allow integration with other road users in urban areas environments. Or change the amount of power assist above to allow maybe 100w of assist, this would lessen the impact of the power cut at what can often be reasonable cruising speeds.

[@Mgrant8163]

I think the state Departments of Motor Vehicles need to step in here. You can't ship a car into California without being both federalized and street legal in the state and local law enforcement has to sign off on some of the basic safety items/equipment. Serial numbers have a lot of the information in them that specifies a lot about the vehicle that the DMV can be used to enforce what needs to be licensed, registered and insured and used on the streets only. Ultimately, bike shops would not be able to sell e-bikes without the correct DMV paperwork for those that are too powerful and fast. There is no reason for the confusion other than the government asleep at the switch. You would think that they would want the additional license fees. With that said I'm seeing Park Rangers that are enforcing 15mph speed limits on the bike trails (which sometimes slows me down too). Hank, I'm with you in the muscle comments and feel your pain. I call them "dog muscles." Not big, just strong.

[@nekekaminger]

I kind of like how it's regulated here in Germany. Bikes with an assist motor that automatically switches off at 25 km/h are pedelecs, which are considered equivalent to bicycles, i.e. anyone can ride them without a license. Bikes with pedal assist up to 45 km/h are called s-pedelcecs and require a license plate. They are extremely rare here, I've only ever seen one in my live so far. If you are caught with a pedelec that assists at more than 25 km/h and does not have a license plate, you are fined and the bike is confiscated and this is actually being enforced by police pretty well. I 'm not sure about bikes that drive without pedaling, I think they are just considered to be motor bikes which require a license plate and a driver's license.

[@russelldrey8678]

At 66 years old I’ve ridden my road bike 🚴 for years and in doing so you know the rules of street cycling. Now I’m seeing people my age who haven’t been on a bicycle most of their lives riding an E bike on the sidewalks, down the wrong side of the road not sure what you’re doing coming at them. Panicking when cars pass by. Maybe a few GCN training videos could help on E bike etiquette 🙏😎

[@Biker322]

Ebikes should be 20mph ,currently they are slightly slower than the speed limit. Which makes them more dangerous to use on 20mph roads. I’d rather ride in the traffic than at the side of it.

[@keacoq]

They opened a Pandora's box when they decided to allow power-assist two-wheelers to be considered 'bicycles'. I think Europe got it right. The 250W/25kmh rules allows anyone to ride like a fit young man on a muscle bike. But there are huge evolving problems But the problem has now expnded into what the French call 'trotinettes' - electric powered versions of things that look like children's kick-scooters. Then there are also powered skateboards, electric uni-cycles. And various kinds of mini-motorcycle. either with no pedals or pedals that are hardly useable or used. It seems that there are no enforced rules here in France. Judging by what I see and hear, many have motors of 350W or more and speed limiters are absent or bypassed. I particularly dislike trotinettes because their riders are motionless and look from a distance like someone standing. Power and speed are known issues, but an increasing issue is weight. Many machines that look like they should follow the 250W/25kmh rule except they look very heavy and hence more dangerous. I think the powers that be do not know what to do. I think that rules for using bicycle infrastructure will require maximum weights to be set. Any machine with an electric motor should be subject to a speed limit (not just a max speed for assistance). But enforcing any of that will be a challenge. Question: Why do e-assit bicycles need pedals and a limit of 25kmh for assistance, but trotinettes (stand-up motorcycles) do not require these.

[@chrisbigelow7390]

personal e-mobility is the future ! Not expensive heavy electric SUVs /electric cars often with a single passenger in them. The answer is making space for them and educating their users , not banning them ! We are in a cost of living crisis in most western societies at least , and thats another reason people will gravitate towards personal mobility more and more .Do people tend to forget the realities of modern life when going on youtube ?