The GENIUS of CIS Fleet Building

[@Flint_Inferno]

I always interpreted the "Intergalactic Banking Clan" name to be made out of an effort to make a grand, spectacular name. Sort of like "Universal Studios"

[@enisra_bowman]

it's was always a mish-mash with these things in Star Wars and a blindly accusse that some writers are not really well in Astronomy, particular that of very Legend Marvel Comics But, there always has been multiple Galaxis in Star Wars, only that the Main GFFA is like the Milky Way and the ones like the Rishi Maze or Dwarf or Satellite Galaxies to the GFFA, like the Magellanic Clouds and given that 12 Parsecs are in galatic terms still quite near means, that everytime we visit Kamino in Star Wars it was a travel to another galaxie. For comparison: the Large Magellanic Cloud is about ~48500 Parsecs away from the Milky Way and while it's never statet how the far out boundry outside the Galaxie is, the Rendezvous Point at the End of EP.5 is also placed outside the Galaxie, maybe on a Route to a GFFA Companion to bad that the Only get the GFFA 2D Map that also Excludes the Companion Galaxies and it was never made clear what Business the Empire/Republic had there

[@RorikH]

I feel like intergalactic also gets misused a lot to mean galaxy-wide, or pan-galactic, or just "galactic".

[@RorikH]

@pyropulse I know, I said intergalactic gets misused. Also people might use different words depending on the situation. A civilization with no contact with other galaxies would likely stick to galactic, as there would be no need to differentiate it from the nonexistent intergalactic whatevers.

[@finnberglander7816]

The banking clan only became bankers because the humans wouldn't let them own land or farm so they were forced to become bankers and also happily became merchants.

[@Daniel-jm7ts]

@@finnberglander7816 wait a minute...

[@joaomiguelmoreira6363]

Honestly, the entire CIS military is just genius. If it wasn't for good old Cheev they could have gotten much much further

[@Z7StudiosMecha]

Yes, the CIS was one of my favorate factions and really the CIS had alot of advantages that they could have won alot

[@piratavorak]

I really liked in the original battlefront 2 the mission droids vs empire

[@hellothere1216]

However, without good old Sheev I don't think they would ever really have gotten as much power as they did in the first place

[@HuckerChucker]

@@hellothere1216 I’m not so sure because the anti republic sentiment was brewing in the outer and mid rim due to the rise in corruption in the republic and lack of care the republic showed to the lesser planets would have likely risen up against the republic.

[@darthmada9574]

Yes and no. Let's not forget Count Dooku was the head of the CIS government. Had Palpatine not put him there, you would be right. But I think that had he (Palpatine) not influenced or out right told Dooku to insert himself into that role he would've eventually found himself there anyways. Also had Anakin not killed Dooku, and had Greivious not been murdered, the CIS would've been a major problem/contender for the Republic/Empire. I would've loved to have seen that play out had Dooku and Greivious survived.

[@Litany_of_Fury]

The Best thing IMO opinion about the CIS is that they don't fall into many story tropes we're used to. They aren't the domineering fascist bad guys or imperialistic hegemons or even freedom loving good guys like with the republics. Politically the CIS is diverse but united in the fight for representation, profit and anti corruption. It is not an organisation that would come into being on it's own and it makes sense because of it. If anything the CIS is like a mix between the Rebel Alliance and the Hutts.

[@Dragonblade722]

The CIS are in my opinion the good guys politically. What the people and political leaders of the Separatists want is the ability to govern themselves as the Republic refuses to protect them, exploits their labor and resources and taxes the hell out of them. The unfortunate part is that their justifiable grievances were taken advantage of by evil corporations and malevolent third parties. It honestly baffled me how the Jedi went all in with siding with the Republic in oppressing the Separatists. I get that they were waging a secret war with the Sith, but you would think that the "keepers of the peace" would at least attempt some actual diplomacy. Get the Separatists to make peace and the Sith lose their civil war. Hell Padme almost succeeded in stoping the war herself.

[@johnhendrix5285]

Good point, and that makes the Jedi leading a war against them even more ethically and morally dubious. +1 to headcannon!

[@Litany_of_Fury]

@pyropulse what was the republic founded on?

[@shrayesraman5192]

@pyropulse I disagree with the fascist imperialist sentiment. Sure they were corrupt but to call them fascist, especially compared to the empire is a massive stretch.

[@thekaxmax]

But were a tool of Palpatine's from day 1

[@SN1PERx64]

Modeled after the shift in production when the US entered WWII, the CIS has analogies for many of the changes industries made to support the war effort, and not just the ones you know you would think in the world of aircraft, firearms, and vehicles. 2 off the top of my head was Maytag, who stopped making washing machines to produce firearm and aircraft components, and Ford, which not just made vehicles but nearly anything from boats, B-24 aircraft, M4 tanks, and more.

[@deriznohappehquite]

Virtually every US manufacturer can switch to military production due to the Defense Production Act.

[@rebelcat_1261]

So THAT'S why tanks broke down so often back then.

[@matthewmohri9990]

A Sines, you know your history, that's awesome. The B-24 Liberator was one of my favorite Bombers from WWII.

[@SN1PERx64]

@@matthewmohri9990 Not nearly enough. I knew of the many companies that did, then did a little research to make sure I wasn't talking nonsense. That's how I learned it wasn't Ford but GM that made firearms to support the war effort, but in my short time looking still couldn't find what exactly Maytag did. I heard that the US army recently refitted some weapons (M2?) made back then that had the Maytag serials on them but I couldn't find where I heard that.

[@chetw3139]

Singer sewing machines...

[@LoxyLight]

the CIS has really interesting ship designs and fleets, they have good variety but could use some smaller corvettes in my opinion. could do a lot to deal with republic fighters.

[@featgorgon3985]

Honestly the flagship grievous used should’ve been the main ship type with the cruisers being downsized to corvettes, or they could’ve completely scrapped the lucrehulk’s and instead made a design for corvettes

[@roguerifter9724]

In Legends they had smaller Frigates and Corvettes they just didn't appear in the flims or unfortunately even the RPG material. They had the Banking Clan Frigates but those were more then twice the size of most Republic Frigates or even OT era Frigates being on the mid to large end of the Heavy Cruiser size range (825 meters long while the Heavy Cruiser size range is between 600 meters long and 1,000 meters long, The actual Frigate size range is 200 meters long to 400 meters long but many larger and smaller ships got classed as Frigates usually based on their weapon loadout so a heavily armed Corvette size vessel or more lightly armed Cruiser size vessel might be called a Frigate.)

[@zeoncrystal]

They don't need smaller corvettes with the swarms of droid fighters present with every fleet. Only skilled Jedi pilots were only ever capable of dealing with those.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

Tbh I think corvettes are a good thing for the droid army to be missing they could be useful at times, but the number one job of the droid army is be cost effective for proper swarm tactics to take hold, throwing in more types of ships complicates the supply chain, and increases the number of points of failure, the closest is something the size of a juggernaunt, where it will be large enough for a powerful shield generator, not so big that it is a giant investment, and wouldn't so slow and poor to maneuver that turbo laser fan target it down

[@TheMhalpern]

@@zeoncrystal or ships that were basically droids with no internal space except what was needed for maintenance, to use as corvettes, not even a token pressurized volume for organics, only fighters would be hull walking vulture droids, relying on other ships if present to service the fighters,

[@redleaderantilles1263]

The CIS honestly was a logistical triumph. Just the existence of their fleets was brilliant

[@raser4329]

Having Droid starfighters, especially tri-fighters, would be an incredible compliment to any fleet. Also, the lucrehulk is just awesome.

[@hanneswiggenhorn2023]

The Lucrehulk is just mobile fighter superiority and I love it for that

[@Matt-yg8ub]

The Lucrehulk is a planetary invasion force unto itself…. The number of droid starfighters that it can carry is ridiculous. I know the clones are higher quality and are flying higher quality fighters…. But the CIS vulture droid’s outnumber them by a ridiculous margin. All it takes is a mix of fighters from the CIS and they should have easily been able to swamp several Venators worth of clone fighters

[@Dreadknight957]

The CIS are my favorite Star Wars faction, they’re ships and battle droids are just amazing

[@HuckerChucker]

Ong

[@tylersoto7465]

Exactly, there ships were very practical and in numbers too

[@ItsAVolcano]

I do like how the Lukrehulk's origin as civilian freighters helps explain why, despite being utterly coated in light laser cannons, the ships had several holes in their defenses that Republic starfighters could exploit.

[@thegamingkaiser2874]

The Grand Republic had a fleet of primarily "Do Everything" capital ships with a few corvettes and frigates here and there. The CIS had a more traditional fleet comprised of ships with specific purposes in mind that work best as part of a battle group.

[@antonisauren8998]

Well, it was bunch of put together pre war converts, built without any plan to complement one another, so one could argue.

[@uwesca6263]

@@antonisauren8998 in the end both sides had to produce a lot of ships really quick. They approached the same problem in different manners

[@reelraccoon]

Yeah, I still like the republic ships better, because if the whole fleet was knocked out besides one, it still had a chance, but with the CIS, if the capitol ship was knocked out (or most support vessels) they would all fall like dominos

[@wolfbassgames1244]

Honestly the CIS were simply geniuses! The fact they were able to amass such fleets and ships so quickly and effectively is mind boggling. And the different classes were unique. The republic had two class mainly. The Venators and the smaller light cruisers I don’t know the class name of. Each CIS ship class were really multi-functional and had multiple side rolls outside their main rolls which is so awesome!

[@wolfbassgames1244]

@pyropulse You’re putting too much thought into this dude🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[@nivel9885]

You mean the acclamator class or the arquitens, those were the other battleships the republic mainly used The ships of the republic were truly multifunctional and one ship could be used for basically anything, but not perfect. The cis had many different ships whiche were suited for one role but needed other ships to complement themselves

[@RandomKai27]

CIS is so terrifying as a concept that they not only nerfed the droids capabilities, but also gave them really silly voices and personalities to undercut the pure horror of facing a limitless army of unfeeling world-conquering killing machines... I love how Mando's hatred of droids comes from his experience with this. It's great character development but also EXCELLENT world-building because I always felt like nobody really took the battledroids too seriously when I was a kid.

[@NEOALLIANCE-01]

Terminator Highlights why fighting Robots would be impossible, SKYNET was an ASI, I will admit, but the B-1 Battle Droids deserved Better, why? you may ask? because they would've kicked the asses of clones, they would be able to take more damage, they can be Camoflaged to their environments, fitted with Stronger Weapons with higher Recoils, and HELL! with the B2 turn their Arms into the guns!

[@DimaMuskind]

​@@NEOALLIANCE-01droids must be very accurate and have great vission, make fast decisions, constantly and instantly communicate with each other and their command centre. If they were like this, outnumbered clones don't stand a chance against them.

[@MichaelCasanovaMusic]

I'm Republic through and through, but i've really come to appreciate the CIS ship design. Their fleets were much more varied and are armed to the teeth.

[@MichaelCasanovaMusic]

@@RorikH I meant in terms of ship and equipment design

[@landonmosur9935]

@@RorikH r/woosh

[@Prefix1998]

CIS is the more realistic of the two armies. I love cloned and know they're elite but you can't convince me that the clones managed to spread themselves over an entire galaxy when only numbering in the millions. WW2 had more active troops than clones that's supposed to fight across the galaxy.

[@ldl1477]

Right. Most writers are great at making an audience Feel something, but their sense of Scale is not there.

[@tk-6967]

They didn't have to. Palpatine controlled everything and gave them an easy victory, the clones did nothing.

[@DROIDFARM]

Agreed. CIS forever!

[@lumbagoboi1649]

Idk the clone numbers are pretty ridiculous. I say they at least had like a billion if not more to be able to fight a galactic war on the scale of the clone wars

[@jakegrant5698]

The galaxy has quadrillions of habitants. The notion that there were only a few million clones is ridiculous and not at all realistic

[@jamescousins9216]

6:41, That's a good point. I've always found it interesting that the Techno-Union made basically everything for the Confederacy. But when you look at where it all came from, The Techno-Union was just the final assembly plant. They covertly sourced, bought out, or outright stole their designs for Baktoid Armor Workshop and Combat Automata from other companies. I imagine that in the aftermath of the Invasion of Naboo, the change in management from Trade Federation to Techno-Union was barely noticed since Wat Tambor already ran Baktoid.

[@tk-6967]

The Techno Union made everything for the Republic as well. Sienar and Kuat were both part of the Techno Union

[@jamescousins9216]

@@tk-6967 Much like the Trade Federation, there's the "play both sides" Techno-Union and the "main manufacturer for the Confederacy" Techno-Union.

[@tk-6967]

@@jamescousins9216 Well the Separatist Council didn't want to support the CIS. The CIS stood against corporations. They helped because they were in on many sith plans and were helping to take it down from the inside. Ryloth was a huge blow to the CIS, and for all that ravaging the planet, it was organised by Wat Tambor and any profit went straight to the Techno Union coffers.

[@pHixiq]

I won’t lie, I’ve always loved the clones but damn the CIS ships were always cold asf 🤣

[@nicktechnubyte1184]

Imagine if Palpatine didn't limit the CIS's droid intelligence, tactics and weaponry! (Edit) Wow, I honestly didn't expect this to be the most liked comment in this video's comment section!

[@h-ideas7217]

You'd have a different rebellion 😉 meatbag.- Bender Bending Rodriguez.

[@Litany_of_Fury]

The republic would probably have to conscript more or use their own droids. Either way the end result is the same. Just need a force to get into power and another force to kill the jedi.

[@mikeg8564]

They would have won... and he didn't want that

[@turtletube420]

Just imagine if he wasn't incontrol of both the republic and Cis fleets. Like imagine if Duku was actually in control over the Cis and trying to win the clone wars he easily outnumbered the republic clone army and could have overwhelmed the Republic forces .

[@piratavorak]

It would have ended at genosis

[@MRDLT00]

The CIS as a faction is so complex and unique in the Star Wars setting. It’s not a generic evil empire of sith faction, nor the very standard rebel one. A wholly new creative element to the Star Wars world. Shame they followed it up in the sequels with just “more empire but evilier” XD

[@TheTrytix]

I believe that as stated by Mace Windu in Legends, at around the beginning stages of the clone wars, the CIS Navy outnumbered the Republic's navy by almost 4 orders of magnitude. And I think it's probably thanks to all of these facilities pumping out thousands of Munificent frigates as mentioned in this video. HOWEVER, I ALSO believe that as the war went on, the Republic was starting to win more and more, and this is probably due not only to better tactics and more veteran soldiers, but also due to the share production capability of the Republic. Like the Venator for instance, the Republic had those vessels ready 7 weeks into the clone wars, and by the battle of Coruscant, the Republic had literally thousands of those vessels in that ONE engagement alone. In my mind, the Republic probably had at least 10'000 Venators total (As this number would be more than twice as small as the Imperial Star Destroyers of the Empire, which makes sense considering the Empire's military doctrine probably increased by orders of magnitude) So, 10'000 Venators, built within a period of 3 years ca. That is an INSANE manufacturing capacity, and looking at the Republic's manufacturing facilities, this number may even make sense. Kuat for instance is one of, if not THE biggest capital ship manufacturer in the Galaxy! If we say a Venator takes about 6 months to build (Based upon the time it takes Mon-Cala's shipyard to pump out Mon-Cala cruisers) Then, if Kuat starts making the Venators 4 months and a week before the war starts, they would have 'em ready by their introduction at 7 weeks into the war. So. Let's see how many Venators the Republic would need to make in order to have 10'000 by the third years end. Let's say Kuat starts making 9 Venators on day one of their production of said ship. Then the NEXT DAY they start producing 9 more and then 9 more the next day and so on and so fourth. Then Kuat could produce about 1600-ish Venators at any given time at over 180 separate stages of construction! Once the first 9 are done, then Kuat would have 9 available facilities to create more Venators from, thus continually producing Venators constantly throughout the entire war. But this sounds ludicrous, doesn't it? 1600 Venators at 180 separate Stages of construction all the time sounds insane. But Kuat's facilities are massive. Seriously massive! The diameter of the planet itself is 10'000 km. and the orbital ring has a even larger diameter. There could be thousands of kilometer sized facilities that could accommodate construction even of THIS insane scale! And besides, Kuat isn't alone either. Alanteen Six, Anaxes, Ringo Vinda etc. etc. All of which could take the load of Kuat and combined create a fleet so massive and so quickly, it could turn the tide of the war by literally outproducing the Separatists!

[@Ciangottino]

The problem is that almost the entirety of the ship crew came from clone facility on Kamino, they need 10 years to raise 1.2 milion of clones for the beginning of the war, Venator class generally carry 7400 clones, in some cases even more, 7,400x10,000= 74 Milion clones only to operate this massive fleet, the flaw behind Republic military is that they have many shipyards but only one Planet that provide the manpower to carry the war for the republic even the guards on the Coruscant Prison are clones, how can Kamino produce all of this clones?

[@antonisauren8998]

@@Ciangottino That was one of the most stupid things in TCW. Puting clones on every position down to sanitation, just to skimp on character models. And later on in Rebels, when they couldn't do so, everyone wears helmet or hat covering half of the face. :P CIS was my favourite faction arround 2005-6, when there were just a movies, comics and novels, with much left for imagination, so everyone could bend it to his ideas. Then Dave entered the scene and put my fantasies upside down. :

[@TheTrytix]

@@Ciangottino Yeah, see. My only best conclusion to that would be that either, the 1.2 million number (later stated to be about 3.2 I believe) was not specified for individual clones, but rather entire squads. Buuuuuut, this has never been stated. In fact, the idea that the clone army consist of 1-3 million individual soldiers seem to be the idea that is supported constantly, regardless of how little sense it makes. Which makes me conclude, that either the Republic maned their fleet with a LOT more non-clones than we realize, or their ENTIRE NAVY was horrendously undercrewed. Or, there was only 1000 Venators at the battle of Coruscant, and that would be literally the entire grand army of the republic... Which makes zero sense as there were several other conflicts taking place elsewhere and stuff...

[@calebbarnhouse496]

Don't forget they are also building starfighters, and any other ship the republic was in need of including some civilian craftx though likely mostly heavuly reduced, the manufacturering capabilities of this ine place would mean it probably chews through resources faster anywhere short of courscant, and even then I'm sure at some points in the war the total usage was higher for everything except food and water

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@TheTrytix personally I like to ignore numbers that give off stupidly small numbers of clones, however I also like the idea of non clones making up pretty much any role except combat positions

[@dominiklehn2866]

Just imagine being a civilian at the start of the clone wars. There's tensions, sure, but to your knowledge there hasn't been a major military force in the galaxy in centuries. And then, over night, a giant faction arises to fight yours and both pull up with some of the largest armies ever seen.

[@ivar8146]

Man keep up the good video being watching for multiple years now

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

If not for Palpatine and Dooku meddling the CIS could easily have won.

[@shanehudson3995]

Well, that and the fact that every CIS commander we see on screen is a mustache twirling Snidley Whiplash.

[@andrewdiaz3529]

@@shanehudson3995 Mostly competent Snidley Whiplashes, which is far more than any military could hope for in a war of that sheer scale.

[@TacticianMark]

I think that's a little unfair and disingenuous to Dooku; the man was a heavily disillusioned former Jedi who wanted to change things for the better, but took the (to quote Yoda in ESB) "quicker, easier, more seductive route" to power by embracing Palpatine and the dark side of the Force all the while thinking he could play the long game and outwit Sidious after getting rid of the corruption in the Republic. Ultimately Dooku just became both a puppet and a slightly different version of the very things he tried to get rid of. This is just another tale of where blinding ambition, desire for power, and naive ideals/morals are shown to be a very dangerous mixture. We see it in other stories (ex. Lord of the Rings); hell, we even see it in real-life (fun fact: the Bloods in Los Angeles were originally founded to protect people against the Crips, who in turn were also originally founded to protect people against yet another violent street gang).

[@shanehudson3995]

@@TacticianMark Even Dooku comes across as a tin pot dictator in the CW.

[@Fatherofheroesandheroines]

@@TacticianMark no Dooku knew exactly what he was getting himself into. He originally went o kill the Sith, but he saw an opportunity and grabbed it. Dooku was a pawn of Palpatine and he meddled in everything just to make the war go the way his Master wanted it to go.

[@DROIDFARM]

To me the CIS is my favorite faction is Star Wars. Think about it, a single group of maga factories tucked away could produce and support a force from ground to space in a very short time like not other faction. That is why to me CIS strongholds way far away could have outlived the Empire, let alone the Republic. To me this is a missed opportunity for some really cool stories! Thank you for posting this! I have been a subscriber since you were just starting out, glad to still be here and to watch you grow! CIS forever!

[@thorshammer7883]

The production speed and size of the CIS Navy in the old Expanded Universe was very fast, big, and pretty impressive how fast it was mobilized. If it was more effective I think it would rival the size of Warhammer 40k's the Imperium of Man's navy if it was under the right conditions and environment to be given the chance.

[@thorshammer7883]

@UCxNHf7K-4gIdD8usOKE80Ig If they were allowed to be upgraded overtime instead of rapidly deployed I would say other wise.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

The imperium of man may have mote ships, so long as you don't count starfighters, but the cis would wipe the floor with them because the imperium only has ships because they were really big 10,000 years ago

[@thorshammer7883]

@@calebbarnhouse496 I believe they produce alot of ships on Forge Worlds however their assembly line and methods of production is extremely hazardous and accidents with the enslaved workers happens regularly. Oh sure their ships are powerful and can serve for a relatively long time they take too long to reproduce individually and tons of people die in accidents. The Imperium really shot itself in the foot with how mechanical methods they disregarded for production purposes. Even the Sith Empire didn't do that.

[@JJJBunney001]

@@calebbarnhouse496 no way, 40k is too massive for that to ever make sense. The Imperium has more ships than the Empire, Republic, Rebellion or CIS combined

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@JJJBunney001 no it doesn't the imperium can only sortie strike groups ranging in a dozen or so ships, the amount of ships able to defend courscant after a week long intense space fight losing many ship was still at a thousand strong, the imperium meanwhile have countless people die just to send a text to the next system over, even if the imperium outnumbered any faction 10 to 1 they couldn't actually outnumber them in a fight, because the imperium is so ineffective at basic communication they lose planets just cause someone filled out a peice of paper wrong, a peice of paper mind you that is never seen again

[@andrewbryant4259]

I always thought it was an interesting (anti?) parallel that the republic had all these clones and had to rush to get venators out for them to crew, while the empire had all these katana fleet dreadnoughts and had to rush out clones to crew them in the thrawn trilogy Edit: especially since the thrawn trilogy predates the prequels and didn't have GLs framework to go off of

[@bryantorresacosta8734]

Hay que recordar que existia el servicio de seguridad y la flota policial de la republica, los cuales sus naves usaban un color rojo en su casco, como vimos en La Amenaza Fantasma, cuando quo gon jin llega con obi wan a la nave de la Cis. Teniendo esto en cuenta, esos marinos que servian de policias y pilotos de funciones del gobierno, pasaron a ser de la armada de la republica por ser los mas cercanos a marinos. asi que la republica no uso del todo a clones, tenian capitanes y oficiales ya entrenados pero obvio, no eran suficientes para la guerra que se avecinaba

[@TSFCaesar]

The CIS has the clear advantage in both Military, Naval and Economic power. Only reason they lost, was because Sidious planed it so. Had the war broken out without Sidious guiding it, then the Republic would have been on the back foot for the entire war. Not to mention that the several attempted peace treaties would at some point break through.

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

Without Palpatine, both sides would have also been far more fractured. Idealistic republicans like Padme, the Jedi and the rimward separatist populations would very soon have found out they had much more in common with eachother. Than the corrupt aristocracy-in-all-but-name of the Republic or ruthless corporations, which were exploiting them at the behest of the Core anyway.

[@gipsydangeramericasmonster9632]

According to the diagram at 5:18, the CIS frigate and munificent had a prow mounted turbo laser. You don’t see it used, but it’s deadly to larger ships but slow to maneuver. Edit: correction, you do see it being used around the 6:49 mark. One or 2 of the frigates fire it.

[@ramonnoodles7840]

There’s also a scene in season one of the clone wars animated series where they’re used in a space battle to great effect

[@josharuni547]

Cis is and forever my favorite faction. Yes they may have dumb b1’s and meant to lose. But they are just so awesome, and if they had their way could of won. Wish we had more Lego’s of these capital ships.

[@RorikH]

Didn't the Republic also lose? They were conquered by Palpatine and turned into the Empire.

[@josharuni547]

@@RorikH they did but they didn’t lose by the CIS.

[@BroadSpectre]

I’ve always had a fascination with the ships of the CIS fleets. So much so that I’ve spent the last few years creating an entire lego CIS fleet. They certainly are well designed.

[@edwardcastro9435]

I just saw this in my recommended and it intrigued me but i didn’t realized you just posted it 💀

[@bowlingpin3092]

Finally! The best faction is getting some love!

[@AGuyNamedRicky]

Personally I’ve always loved world building via interstellar navy and vehicles. CIS def wins a big gold star in my book

[@cartercrum1490]

Would really love a video where you make a perfected CIS fleet like you did with the Empire

[@johncunningham4820]

Let's be blunt . The C I S actually had their shit together industrially . A Big shame they fell for the Lies and Empty promises of the BAD GUYS . Palpatine was a GOD level manipulator .

[@rallsome]

A lot of what you said reminds me of historians talking about America arming for WW2. Leveraging a massive consumer output to turn out massive war assets. Many small US companies doing what they could, in any small part, that would lead to a much larger project.

[@DarkEmpireGames]

As much as I grew up being a huge Clone fanboy, these days I can't help but look at the CIS and just love everything, especially the Munificent, which is a personal favourite

[@DrMutran]

By any chance will you be going over CIS vessel from legends like the Sabaoth Frigate, Hex deployers, Trade Federation Missil Frigate, and the Dagger Class fighter? How do you think they compare with the rest of the CIS fleet?

[@tk-6967]

Most of the ships you mentioned were part of Sabaoth Squadron, which was hired by Dooku outside of his role as the leader of the CIS on the condition that they would be able to join the Galactic Empire, and therefore not part of it.

[@vi6ddarkking]

The Interesting Thing Is That The CIS Probably Would Have Won The Clone Wars If Palpatine Wasn't Holding Them Back.

[@darkwolf-0468]

I think that if the CIS fought the war without palpatine control they would have win the war against the republic

[@jamesbarnes5769]

The Republic wouldn't even have had the clones if it wasn't for Palpatine so CIS would have definitely won

[@theliato3809]

The CIS as we know it doesnt exist without palpatine though? Without his machinations the megacorporations probably sit out on the sidelines while the republic and cis would be buying stuff from them throughout the war to equip their own armies and navies being raised.

[@vi6ddarkking]

@@theliato3809 I Think You Guys Are Misunderstanding What I Meant. I Don't Mean If Palpatine Didn't Exist. I Mean If Duko Decided At The Early Stages Of The Clone Wars Backstabed Sirius (Probably Reveal Palpatine's True Nature To The Galaxy) And Just Go All Out For Military Victory.

[@theliato3809]

@@vi6ddarkking well that goes against the grand plan doesnt it

[@hanneswiggenhorn2023]

One thing I always imagined for the CIS ship production was that they even much before the war started to pruduce the paets needed for ships, meaning they produced armor parts, trusters and maybe even weapons/turbolasers but all this without assembling any ships completely, so that they wouldn't break any galactic treaties but could at any point assemble a giant navy with much reduced effort by skipping the early production processes

[@Moldy_Crow1315]

Been watching old Tapcaf transmissions on Legends books, love it - would love to see a video about a guide to audiobooks in legends

[@darthmada9574]

I extremely enjoy the CIS as a faction and wish they would make a cone back in future films much like the first order. The CIS I don't think get as much attention, with all the different bodies that comprised the CIS government. But I think without the empire, and the first order being a shadow of the empire, the CIS systems (much like the first order) could've grown stronger in secret amongst the outer rim (or beyond) territories. Without the Geonotians and the help of the trade federation, they could enlist the help of the Hutts, Pikes, and the likes of others such as Crimson Dawn and etc...

[@theliato3809]

you could see a bunch of systems through out the broken new republic come together to form a new CIS

[@azzythechristianfurry]

The goals of the CiS are noble (discounting a few high ranking officials). It reminds me of the American Revolution in a way. But the republic have clones, who are cooler. So they’re my favorite.

[@eazhe3716]

I mean yeah clones are cool and all but, brainwashed child slave soldiers

[@tk-6967]

The American revolution? How was that noble? The goals was unaccountability. The colonists would no longer have to listen to a responsible government, and could do whatever they wanted if they listened to the authority of the new US regime.

[@azzythechristianfurry]

@@tk-6967 Freedom is pretty noble.

[@tk-6967]

@@azzythechristianfurry What were they freed from exactly?

[@azzythechristianfurry]

@@tk-6967 British tyranny. Judging by the state of Britain today, good call. America’s gone down the path, too, but Britain is still worse.

[@leziggy]

0:41 the Techno Union is at your disposal Count *Techno music starts blasting*

[@wojtekpolska1013]

its also cool how they were able to produce a large amount of droids before the war as "security droids"

[@CloneScavengerVulpin8389]

Echo: "the more tactical droids fought, the more they learned and won."

[@jasonsaalbach5786]

I like the CIS they were the underdogs against the republic it would have been really interesting as to what would have happened if the CIS found a way to survive during the droid shut down or if a portion of the CIS military survives and they reestablished a base in the unknown regions or outer edges to rebuild and returned to engage against the Empire. That would likely be interesting to see a war between a revived CIS and the Empire.

[@Viktor16161616]

As someone that recently played a Bankingclan captain in a FFG game, I gained a new love of the Muunificent class, as that was the characters long term goal for a flagship. Unfortunately, they had a very successful, but brief career before dying. But the fondness for the ship class remains. The cr90 still remains my favorite though.

[@Raven03342]

Smart fleets

[@matthewmohri9990]

From what I have read in these comments is that if Palpatine had not been manipulating the war, The CIS would(well there probably wouldn't have been a Clone War)have more than likely steam rolled over The Republic. A "What if Palpatine had not been manipulating both sides of The War, who would have won?" sounds like a good vid. I'm thinking someone may have done it before, but a person with your depth of Star Wars knowledge and analytical skills would probably make a great vid on the topic. Hey Eck, thank you for having a video that's more than a minute long. I've missed your knowledge and content on Star Wars, and the 1 min clips at least for me don't seem to catch my attention. I love how the Rebellion used The Recusant and modified it into "Rebel 1" though a bit vulnerable in the engine department, it's still an effective ship and a great looking one as well. I think The CIS as a whole had if The Clone Wars weren't manipulated by Palpatine, The CIS would more than likely have won. It's not that The Venator, Acclimator, and whatever other ships The Republic had at the time weren't bad, I just think The CIS had a better variety of ships that were easily modified for specific functions. Loxy Light did point out that The CIS could have used some Corvettes as well, and though The Recusant had some anti-star fighter capabilities, a dedicated anti-starfighter ship would have filled a nice role. Over all good vid Eck.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

It's almost like taking the real world concept of Q Ships and applying it on a galactic scale. It's pretty damn scary, imagine if in the real world every cargo ship suddenly had guns and aircraft and the shipping industry held every country to ransom.

[@antonisauren8998]

IRL such thing didn't happened. Nobody builds freighters up to military specs ...at least I hope so. Even Q ships were just worse protected cruisers, relaying on suprise. Since early moders times, converted freighter can't stand up to any classed military vessel. In SW they have shields and fighters that doesn't require runways to operate, but turbolasers have recoil, so mounting heavy weapons on comercial frame shouldn't be possible, and reactors on ships that wouldn't have to power much outside of middle class hyperdrive, should be magnitude smaller.

[@thefirstprimariscatosicari6870]

@@antonisauren8998 The difference with the modern day, is that Star Wars manufactures can get away with a modest armament even on civilian ships, because the Galaxy still has extensive lawless sections. The current era of safe sea travel, has only been possible thanks to the industrial revolution and electromagnetic based world-wide communication. Which meant, states could produce enough vessels to respond to every call, and even merchants out in international waters could instantly report pirate attacks. While the Star Wars Republic had both, in the context of a galactic scale entity, they would need an extremely fast, impossible to jam and very cheap method of FTL communications to replace radios. It doesn't matter if you can mass produce patrol ships, if you need to place one in every single system to fight piracy. Which would mean, a fleet in the billions.

[@septicguns7017]

Great Video!

[@FroggBoy1]

I fell in love with the CIS when i first saw StarWars: Clone wars. I loved the unique ship designs, the land forces(the tanks were awesome), and above all else: The Lucrehulk(My favorite ship in star wars with the Executor in 2nd place). I always wondered though, Considering the Imperial star destroyer was a sort of evolution from the venator, what if the CIS ships evolved in a similar way? Redesigning their ships and fleet composition to better suit their strategy(like how the Empire designed the Imperial-1 when they became more attracted to using mainly capitol ships)

[@casbot71]

If it was a "Fair Fight" without the machinations of Palpatine and Dooku, _the CIS would have won._ A scenerio; as Dooku flies away from the hangar where he "disarmed" Anakin in the first battle of Geonosis, Padme takes a few blaster shots at his departing ship… as did happen. _But_ she hits something vital and instead of gently docking on Corescant to meet with a awaiting Palpatine (and no one identified that ship??), Dooku's retro thrusters don't work and he plows into the hanger - killing them both. The War from that point would result in a inevitable CIS victory.

[@RJALEXANDER777]

Even just killing Dooku would've severely hampered Palp's ability to control the CIS.

[@antonisauren8998]

@@RJALEXANDER777 He still had direct ties to Neimoidians and probably other corporations too. Somehow he would suceed. :P Also what would happen if Republic lost? Jedi would be still almost gone in the process and CIS would just create confederated union out of half of the Republic. Worst case for Palpy, he would be ousted from power as failed leader who lost the war. Without support of much weaker military and the senate, he couldn't do much to mount the coup. Maybe retreat into shadows and try another day.

[@theliato3809]

Wouldnt the CIS fall apart without proper leadership?

[@crownprincesebastianjohano7069]

Without Dooku the CIS probably falls apart. He alone kept the Separatist Council and Senate together. The Council in particular was very quarrelsome due to very different needs and policies. So, unfortunately the only way the CIS wins is if Dooku decides to overthrow Sidious.

[@tomcannockcannock9972]

Great video, been following the Chanel 4 a few years now and would personally like to see more battle breakdowns, appreciate u have covered most by now but maybe some ground battles? Idk just ideas

[@DreadTheMaximus]

The lucrehulk reminds me about the profundity how both were something before that reflect civilian / peaceful stuff and refitted into a warlike things

[@dio3693]

Republic: warships are illegal, and we have no standing army CIS: that's nice and all but we've been secretly building ships and droids for years Republic: lol jk we suddenly have clones and ships ready to go

[@walterscogginsakathesilver6246]

The force is strong with this one

[@lightspeedvictory]

I assume a video on how the Kaminoans created the fleet for the clones is next? #askeck what warships, asides from dreadnoughts, did the Mon Cal have during the clone wars? Lore ship Versus video request: Resurgent vs. Starhawk Tie Striker vs. New Republic V-Wing World Devastator vs. Vong Worldship Tie Silencer vs. X-83 Twintail Tie Silencer vs. Tie Defender (legends version) Keldabe vs. ISD II MC90 vs. Nebula class star destroyer Nebula class vs. Pellaeon class Majestic class vs. Bothan Assault Cruiser EAWX: FOTR’s Mandator II portrayal vs. Subjugator Praetor vs. Subjugator EAWX: TR’s Mediator portrayal vs. Resurgent Starhawk vs. Bulwark MK III

[@NyanSox]

the eckharts ladder clips industrial complex has begun

[@ThatTallBrendan]

I really like how the green-lit bridges of the frigates evoke those empty, lights-on office buildings you pass on night drives. It's a subtle, if not entirely unconscious detail that conceptually fits the CIS to a T.

[@simlucien]

How did they leave the galaxy????

[@lukesearle1302]

Interested in what happened to those intergalactic shipyards??? Basis for the new order? Did some escape the purge?

[@AttiraKell]

Very much love the Republic, for its military style and as a governmental structure. Though of course it was ineffective by the movie era.

[@joshrich507]

Let’s goooooooo I love this channel!! And so let’s watch another one!! But question, is Eck’sClips officially affiliated with this Maine one? (Cause I don’t prefer it too much to this one)

[@fergusofdalibor4264]

Hey you! You're my new favorite. Underrated

[@redtsar]

Always have been a CIS fan, always will be. Down with the Republic!

[@dmitritelvanni4068]

Muunificent ships are the g.o.a.t. imo. It was the first ship I could really put to use in space engineers. so much fun.

[@emperorkiron3470]

The CIS is the perfect representation of swarm tactics. There is a point in warfare where sheer numbers overpowers any tactics, no matter how well designed. Ironically the CIS also handeled (theoretically) intimidation far better than the Empire, just the sheer scale of thousands of war frigates and cruisers enough to put off even the most determined of Republic officers. There is a certain point in warfare where when space is choked in the opponent’s barrages, so much so that maneuvering away would mean the same amount of damage as staying put, that it results in immediate victory for the opposing.

[@b-man-2H]

The entire CIS military is genius and underrated and I honestly feel, without Sith intervention, the CIS win the war. Especially with Legends numbers. Canon numbers make no sense, they are so ridiculously small for a massive galaxy-wide conflict.

[@vi6ddarkking]

I Do Admit The CIS Has My Favorite Navy Of All The Major Factions In The Starwars Universe.

[@sheevpalpatine2128]

Its no different than the transformation of industry in the US in WW2 they even had treaties about how much they could build before the war ie. Ship tonnage.

[@birbfromnotcanada]

I like the Banking Clan Frigate too

[@matthewhumphrey3298]

Hitler did the same thing. After World War 1 Germany could not make certain types of vehicles. They created tons of fighters and bombers claiming that the planes where mail carriers and transportation planes.

[@koharumi1]

4:30 so then the war would of kept going. As finding all the remote bases would of been impossible.

[@Murdocke89]

Those damn Genius CIS Males at it again! 😂

[@IshijimaKairo]

The CIS is still the Good Guys in my heart.

[@lavrentivs9891]

To draw on a WW2 comparison, the CIS had the great benefit of, just like Germany, knowing that they were going to go to war in the future so they could develop the right equipment for what they knew were coming (sith machinations not withstanding), while the Republic, much like the Allies, were late to the race of gearing up for war and it was done so in a less determined way, as they hoped to be able to prevent a conflict from breaking out in the first place.

[@TheWingland]

Fleet battle Rebel fleet at Endor vs. Cole’s fleet at Cole’s last stand

[@mp5_Puppy]

In ROTS, we see a landing strip and air traffic control tower, why do landing strips exist if everything runs on repulsorlifts?

[@LaynaStambaugh]

I love the ship design of the Republic (Venator my beloved) but the politics and organization of the CIS are SO INTERESTING.

[@Vistico93]

The CIS overall made me nervous as they just seemed like capitalism run amok. The Banking Clan, the Techno-Union, the Trade Federation, et al. reminded me of one of the reasons why men like Teddy Roosevelt sought to break apart monopolies: he realized these companies were getting large enough to compete with entire governments So I think of the primary financiers of the CIS being like a Republic failure to rein in large, nearly galactic scale corporations and because of that failure, the moneyed interests (I suppose egged on by the Sith) effectively orchestrated a coup

[@TheWingland]

Fleet battle between Grand admiral Thrawn vs. Ender Wiggin Each one has an equal sized fleet with equally capable subordinates, and since Ender is from a different universe each has equal understanding of the technology they’re using. They are in command of Star Wars vessels. Pick a famous fleet of your choosing I’d suggest death squadron

[@whispertheviewer]

Prefer CIS faction. A more alien republic with a robot army. Just image the cool designs of everything. (Ignore sith manipulating and corrupted corporation running the stuff.)

[@goldgodryukendo913x]

I like how Rebel One was a Kitbash of all of them.

[@BarnabyCodswallow]

back in my day, eckharts ladder was the premiere Star Wars lore channel. Hope to continue to see you back in that realm! ps regardless of ur opinion: new canon is the only canon. you may hate the sequel trilogy and have found 1000 things wrong with it, BUT... that is canon. Akin to a history book. Not debatable. Just accept the new canon, think of it as a new set of topics for SW videos, and get back in the game.

[@tacotaco1239]

I still can’t believe that the Republic used aircraft carriers as battleships.

[@EmeraldForestCat]

In general, all these tricks with converting civilian ships into the military were something quite ordinary for the late republic. First of all, due to the anarchy of the reigning in the external ring of the galaxy. Without a solid firepower, the ships of the trade federation could very quickly become the prey of pirates. A similar situation with a banking clan. CIS did not have to try hard to hide the preparations for the war. Because the republic did not consider it necessary to pay attention to anyone else's private armies. As well as the problem of piracy, slave trade, social inequality, etc.

[@asadishere8262]

Cis really has a good way to creep me up with the recusant and recusnat has a very good disgin

[@mason0450]

#askeck Couldn't they have avoided the need for hyperspace lanes by going outside the galactic plane?

[@qade2128]

Tbf there's probally something like star wars tyranids out there

[@HyraxusPrimus]

A secret fleet of automated Separatist ships (perhaps called the "Katana fleet", or something befitting Dooku's noble swordsman motif) that wasn't able to be deployed before the droids were shutdown would've been a good Macguffin to use in the sequel trilogy.

[@shadowlife15]

While the venator is coolest star wars ship, the banking clan frigates are a close 2nd imo. The providence is cool too, but the banking clan ships just have neat design and have become iconic.

[@ethribin4188]

The thing most forget, if the CIS wasnt caught out early, they would havecwon the war very quick. At the start of the clone wars, the CIS was the more capable army by a very large margin. Especially their naval capability was far greater. If it wasnt for Obiwan discovering their factory of Geonosis and thus forcing the CIS to officially declair their seperation early, they would have overwhelmed the republic. Only because the war was long and drawn out did the republic win. They could catch up. And their wild card, the jedi, allowed them to draw out the war enough to compete and overwhelm. And of course Palpatine, who was pulling the strings in the back all the time.

[@macwelch8599]

Those people were smart

[@blueburger4938]

Question Would it be possible to fit a droid of droid fighter factory inside of a lucrhulks main ring hangars Or in other words would it be possible to make a lukrehulk into a mobile factory and would it function well alongside its ability to be a mobile base?

[@blueburger4938]

Also would it even be practical to do so?

[@antonisauren8998]

Imo it would be to small to fit whole production line, with furnaces, durasteel mills, electronic plants, weapons plants. There is a lot of specialised components needed to create battledroid. And you still have to feed it raw materials. Would it be possible, maybe split into several? Yes. But why put a factory inside a freighter? To flee with it? World devastators had molecular furnaces, that were basicly star trek replicators, creating high end products out of raw materials, and would go down to feed themselves, so could do something in smaller frame.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

A small factory yes, but not really, what would be effective is a lukerhold that preforms repairs on downed starfighters, however it wouldn't be practical, ultimately the ship is way to big and expensive to dedicate towards being a slow factory, particularly if there is a delay via enemy attack you could be down for weeks if you take even minor damage

[@MrJLHaney]

We really need a Star Wars games where in you take control of capital ships. Like World of Warships. Imagine the turbo laser fire crossing the map!

[@ClericOfPholtus]

Being able to combat a dominant galactic government Y'know I'd give them more credit for that if it was like the Confed vs the Union But both of those sides were already equally well armed Starwars' CIS is the Confed vs like... New Zealand. If it was the size of South America but still as nonmilitarized

[@Hartzilla2007]

"Y'know I'd give them more credit for that if it was like the Confed vs the Union" So the Republic fucking up the CIS a lot with the occasional CIS victory mostly in retaking territory for a bit before being run off again? As represented by this nice moving map summary of The US Civil War. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pnWofGedf6d-jZI

[@AcapulcoAiden]

The dog named killer 8:12

[@UPTAUT]

Really interesting video. Loved it

[@balintkovacs4089]

I might be misremembering, but at least in Legends the Providence-class was said to have been in use for a good 300 years by the time the Clone Wars broke out.

[@DirtySheriffx]

I all ways thought it was weird that the cis never made a fully automated capital ship, one with no internal space but a big brain baried deep within the ship like the drone star fighters but the intelligence of a tactical droid. The ships would of been a lot smaller, faster and would have a more dense defence/attack weapons network. Imagine the fire power and defence ability of a battle ship but the size profile of a large frigate or small cruise. Yes the cis started off as more civilian based but as the war started they could of churned out a lot of these ships in quick order, and yes they would be difficult to perfect but they did have droids in all forms of their military for quite some time so wouldn't take much effort.