Why the CIS Droid Army Sucks! (and how it could've been great) | Star Wars Lore

[@EckhartsLadder]

This is a sequel to yesterday's video, which you can see here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aWfSYXlvfZ6Vnrc

[@aliastheabnormal]

The cortosis droids were too good so Palpatine personally sabotaged the entire project.

[@matthalo871]

Actually the number 150 is the number of candidates and from that the 70 were pulled and from that only 36 survived

[@endlessblue465]

Vex (from Destiny) vs Necrons (from Wh40k) please?

[@tommyspringer3693]

@@matthalo871 Wasn't 75 pulled?

[@javierescuella4084]

EckhartsLadder Amazing Job keep up the amazing work

[@dwilliams3101]

A sequel to the last video...? This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them!

[@Official_Kayde_Games]

Which video was before this one? I would like to watch it pls

[@RaeSyngKane]

One advantage that wasn’t mentioned here is the ability to salvage or repair your losses. If you lose half your troops in a fight, you can simply swap the damaged parts or harvest them for additional parts at the frontlines. If you take 50% losses, repair droids can bring you back up to 90% strength since even their fatal shots are able to be repaired. Have one part that is the most common killshot? Simply bring extras of that part. Have a droid reduced to teeny pieces? Melt it down and use it as war material, can’t do that with clones, I hope. Droid coordination should’ve been top notch but a lot of aspects in Star Wars get really silly for thematic reasons. I know it’s easy to pick on the droids for attacking in single file line but to be fair the clones did similar early on and they’re cloned from one of the greatest warriors in the galaxy.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

In the EU atleast, the droid army salavaged damaged droids, meaning although the kill:death ratio of clones was about 1:10 for average clone troops most of those droids could be salvaged (meaning draws and victories for droids left alot less actually disabled.)

[@RazuX5]

Huabin Situ everyone in the galaxy misses not just droids or stormtroopers.

[@sufoarcane]

it would be a lot cheaper and efficient just to gather all the scrap from dead droids and melt it into new material for new droids. Also i do not see any reason why later when assassin droids where created, why they did not replace b1 with them. Actually only reason i see is Palpatine weakened CIS on purpose like said in the video.

[@xxportalxx.]

@Gerben van Straaten I think it boils down to why the two armies were created: so Sidius could gain complete control. Neither army actually needed to be effective, as he controlled both and in the end only needed their numbers to end the jedi and establish fear/propaganda campaigns

[@xxportalxx.]

@Mists & Shadows Idealogy, the same reason people are blowing up buildings in new york.

[@victorconway444]

The Separatists weren't meant to be great. Only suitably dangerous enough to scare the Republic into making Palpatine Emperor.

[@histguy101]

Thank. You. I was thinking this the whole time. They served their purpose brilliantly.

[@lukechang3565]

He said this at the beginning.

[@histguy101]

@@lukechang3565 Well, it's still about as fruitless as saying "How could we make the strategy of the allies in WW2 so bad that they could never win." He also says "Let's look at it objectively," but objectively, the Droid army served the objective as it was designed to. It was meant to create fear and terror, be strong enough to not allow the Republic an easy quick victory, but not be so effective as gain a quick victory over the Republic.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@histguy101 but the SEPARATIST army was never able to set up a SEPARATE political structure outside of the Republic, so realistically no the separatist army failed in its task. Now in universe there is a valid explanation for all of these reasons, and I guess out of universe there is a different but similar explanation but from the in universe perspective of the separatist leaders, THEY should want to beat the Republic and should design an army and fight in such a way as to want to win, right?

[@histguy101]

@@TheOmegaXicor They had their own Senate and government, and military. The goal of the top leaders of the Separatist council(The ones Anakin executes on Mustafar) was not to win the war, but to do Sidious's bidding. When he said it was time to stop the war, they readied the droids to be shut down. They were promised lots of things to do all this.

[@Littlepup93]

Actually, we see the defoliator come back later in The Clone Wars series when they go after Ventress on a witch hunt.

[@DiddlyDooOfficial]

You tell him

[@kevinbarber2795]

That’s still only ONE time.

[@tacobobthecat]

yeah hes such an IDIOT for not knowing that...

[@ratkeep]

@@tacobobthecat what an absolute FOOL

[@tacobobthecat]

@@ratkeep exactly hes such an IDIOT for not knowing that

[@therealbobafett]

How could you say something so controversial yet so brave?

[@dakotadawn5789]

Can I have an autograph

[@therealbobafett]

@@dakotadawn5789 TheRealBobaFett

[@andreustriant5888]

Engineers: We can’t create AI it is too hard Eck: take a stick slap some legs on it and give it a gun Engineers: brilliant

[@marcus7564]

For me, the biggest flaw, far and away, is how stupid the B1s are. If you have robotics advanced enough to perform the management, and physical movements the B1s do you can make them tactically competent and expert marksman. I also find it difficult to believe you need to make them so stupid to make them cheap. The software and supporting hardware for advanced combat should not be much more than that they already need to function. Our FPS AIs are more competent, most know to take cover behind chest high walls and auto-aiming is a so lethal it's basically cheating. Unload CoD V ai into a B1 and it will be so much more effective.

[@LucaUmbriel]

Maybe that's the problem, they outsourced the combat protocol development to a game studio and no one realized they'd had the droids' difficulty set to 'easy' instead of 'insanity'

[@immortalfrieza]

@marcus7564 Definitely. The B1 battle droid is actually overall an extremely effective and versatile design, it's their programming and logic modules that are the real problem. If the B1s had even just enough capacity for intelligence that they weren't comedically stupid they would have been much much more effective than they were.

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

They are dumb to prevent rebellions. And they do employ half decent small unit tactics and show good aim ep3, basically the first time we see the experiences of the war after a millenium.of peace be applied. So in general, they are not half as bad as one might think.

[@marcus7564]

@@ineednochannelyoutube5384 I still find them to stupid. The main issue is that they are worse then even our gaming AI let alone actual military systems. I get why you may want to nerf them to prevent superhuman tactical abilities but they are just so incompetent. If we are talking in law it has to be some kind of intentional thing as you say. They are smart enough to receive orders, fly ships and things. Abilities more like Commando droids are more believable to me (nerft for cheaper and less flexible bodies).

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+marcus7564 B1s arent dumb outside of tvw which cannot be taken at face value. And their tactics can ne explained away by the galaxy having last fought a major war some 900 years ago, and line infantry tactics actually being the most modern form of strategy.Afterall the Guanguans and clones also used it.

[@LastNameTom]

I think the B-1 Droids were done perfectly. The droids were strong enough to start and fight a war, but not win it. Palpatine wanted the republic to win and change to an Empire. Because if that, he needed the Separatists to lose and with dumb robots, that would ultimately happen. Now, if these droids fought a legitimate war, I agree with you. But Palpatine started this war to win over the Separatists, not to lose.

[@karmicguzzler]

That's a fair point, but I think the video is meant more as a hypothetical. Either way though, I've always wanted to see more stories written from the Separatists point of view. The politics- and diplomacy-themed story arcs have a few sympathetic Separatist characters, but CIS leaders are typically portrayed as either Palpatine's puppets (like you said) or war-mongering capitalists. And in most Star Wars stories, we really only see sadistic villains like Grievous or incompetent, mindless droids. I'd love to learn more about the rank-and-file soldiers who volunteered for the CIS military-they're mentioned briefly a couple times, but it would be awesome to follow a unit of human Separatists over the course of the Clone Wars. It could explore Separatist ideology more deeply and massively enrich the world-building. We could watch them wrestling with the moral dilemmas of war and politics from a new perspective. Fingers crossed!

[@cissuperdroid]

I find this highly offensive.

[@Alex-tn7pv]

Awn... you beat me to it, dude. I was gonna say "I identify as a CIS gendered droid and I find this offensive!" Oh well...

[@ncrranger9387]

....stupid clanker

[@cougargaming7787]

OOM- 8018 lol

[@insertmemorableusernameher6795]

@@Alex-tn7pv I sexually identify as a CIS battle droid. Ever since I was a boy I dreamed of running onto the battlefield and shooting plasma bolts at clone troopers. People say to me that a person being a battle droid is impossible and I'm retarded but I don't care, I'm beautiful. I'm having a plastic surgeon install an e-3 blaster rifle, electromagnetic limbs, and a control antenna to my body. From now on I want you guys to call me "b1" and respect my right to kill in swarms and kill for the CIS cause. If you can't accept me you're a droidphobe and you need to check your privilege. Thank you for being so understanding.

[@Alex-tn7pv]

@@insertmemorableusernameher6795 LMAO! You're basically the droid version of Riley J Dennis!

[@HirionOfDale]

I always thought that it was such a missed opportunity, that the battle droids were mostly used as comic relief, probably because of Lucas wanting to keep the franchise family-focused. I would have loved to see a darker version of the prequels, in which the droids were genuinely scary.

[@dinoboiis8147]

I do think comic relief shouldve stayed for the B1 but not for everything else like B2s and Droidekas

[@twistedyogert]

If you want to see scary B1 battle droids play Republic Commando. Those are actually kinda scary.

[@HumanoidDerpling]

It's not a SW problem, it's a CW problem.

[@AGaiman]

The Defoliator's technology may have been an effective weapon against the Vong. Though now we'll never know.

[@billclark5055]

Defoliator tanks were still used after season 1 of TCW in important battles. They were used in the Battle of Dathomir in season 3. Eck was wrong.

[@bengale9977]

@@billclark5055 yeah but I think he meant "why were they not shipped out to every front in the galaxy?" It would have been cool if they had had a scene where the Confederate parliament ban it as a illegal weapon. It would help highlight the divide between the parliament and the military.

[@risingstarforge]

@@bengale9977 i heard it was very expensive as the gas required was rare. It pretty has same reasoning as the tie defender.

[@bengale9977]

@@risingstarforge Fair enough. I know nothing about the tank beyond the clone wars so there are probably many actual lore related reasons that I'm unaware of.

[@billclark5055]

@@risingstarforge That's also why stealth tech in Star Wars is so rare.

[@blujay5853]

Is that........ AN OPINION I HEAR?????? DIIIIIISLIKED! Jk I love this guy

[@jovickii7396]

Roger Roger, i only see opinion here

[@fluffaduck6206]

The defoilator? Tank is actually used by the CIS again against the night sisters and Ventress

[@Tar-Numendil]

That is true. However it is called the Defoliator.

[@chanachon56]

@@jonumine6250 Just because your first prototype is destroyed, doesn't mean that the design is. Most likely, the fat general had backup files stored somewhere within CIS high command and Dooku probably ordered a few more of the things built from the blueprints that the guy left behind.

[@RaeSyngKane]

It does make you wonder why they were using artillery to launch it instead of dropping it from hyena bombers since it certainly has a very limited direct line of sight range

[@georgeofhamilton]

@@RaeSyngKane Maybe it needs some kind of large primer that can't be carried by a _Hyena_ bomber.

[@Axius27]

If I had to guess, I'd say that Dooku felt that the defoliator was too strong and would tip the balance of the war too far in favour of the CIS. The few that we see attacking the nightsisters were likely under Dooku's personal command, and were deployed on that particular mission to insure victory against his former apprentice. It was a battle that he could not afford to lose.

[@GeorgeCowsert]

If it weren't for Palpatine, I'm pretty sure the CIS would've won.

[@henryfisher9948]

George Cowsert they also wouldn’t have existed

[@rebelfriend9006]

@@henryfisher9948 yeah they would have the industrial compound and planets made there own droids.

[@komradekobra]

That's what I'm saying, multiple episodes state that the clones were out manned, and out gunned. Droids could be built faster than clones being born and grown.

[@luzfire7523]

To be honest, without Palpatine supporting the CIS, The GAR would have probably picked them apart. They have demonstrated mediocre planning at best in most cases, Trench being a rare exception. From what i've seen, the Cis was inferior on the ground and even in Space and seem to have only held out with Darth Hideous giving out Troop movement

[@wirelessmug]

@@luzfire7523 no beacuse without sheeve the republic looses at geonosis and with the first venators strill being months away and with all their ground forces wiped, the cis obliterates the republic

[@alexknj1]

Everyone says Palpatine was a good leader but he led 3 galactic super powers into eradication.

[@jayb8934]

Yes, but 2 of those were on purpose.

[@raccoonavi]

Palpatine is like the star wars Theresa May

[@jacobaurelius5361]

Fucking LOL

[@marsbars4767]

I guess he's just good at destroying them

[@darthsidious1183]

Yo wassup bois.

[@SuaveRenegade]

Way I've always seen it, there shouldn't be an extensive increase in price when upgrading something like a processor or AI. Its just copy-pasted to the nth degree. Why the CIS intentionally created brain deficient droids as the core of their army, was because if every B-1 had the intelligence of a T-Series and the targeting/combat AI of an Assassin droid, they'd crush the Republic in a blink. We can see this in the very first episode of the Clone Wars cartoon in which one B-1 says to the other, "Your aim is terrible!" as the one he's talking too has missed every shot on this escape pod he's been firing on. The droid replies, "Sorry, its my programming." The AI was purposefully made terrible so the Clone Wars could be prolonged. The Trade Federation, Techno Union, Kaminoan Cloners, and all the weapon manufacturers made treasure troves of credit from the war, and it was always a war of economics never forget. While Palpatine used his influence for the sinister purpose of consolidating power in the Senate, everyone else pulling the strings of the war were just in it for the profit of there being a war. The CIS army was only ever "strong enough" to maintain a shaky stalemate between them and the Republic. After the CIS lost their leadership though and their droid factories, it was just over. The complexity of the war truly reveals itself when you consider why despite each side winning many key battles, it never seemed to end the war.

[@iced2594]

WATCH THOSE WRIST ROCKETS

[@jondmontoto]

SUPER BATTLE DROIDS TAKE THEM OUT.

[@stormpants1638]

Nice shot from the point.

[@darthcannar7284]

They sent in the supers

[@drummerboii2878]

Line em up and knock them down!

[@folkarino]

Are these Movie Battles II-taunts I hear?

[@slb797]

I want there to have been a CIS general who realized the CIS was a giant puppet, retreated to some hidden nook of the solar system, and has spent decades just churning out droids and ships across multiple star systems

[@alexsch2514]

CIS thrawn 😂

[@anthonyz6913]

May I point out that watching the clone wars, on one of the episodes on the battle of ryloth, one of the droids laughs at another scrapped model which was controlled by a command ship, indicating that there were indeed self function droids Also, super tactical droids and tactical droids, they exist. The defoliator was used during the battle on dathomir

[@PittBullBytes]

note that tactical droids were unreliable as they view their plans as perfect and don't work well when it doesn't go according to plan. super tactical droids aren't as bad, but a living commander really should make the judgments in either case. my guess is AI aren't that intelligent in the Clone Wars Era. either that, or they are REALLY holding out for one reason or another

[@wilkor-lc7ox]

@@PittBullBytes ig88(?) Killed his creators, uploaded himself into death star, and wanted to cause mass droid rebelion (from what i know). Maybe that's why they are holding back AI

[@anthonyz6913]

Rudy Sanchez but to your point, the things advocated in this video were present, so this point was rather.... pointless. Hehehe

[@skylark306]

@@anthonyz6913 Feels like starwars droids wouldn't need enough intelligence to support then developing personalities (I get it that producers just did it for the shit and giggles but still) to be a cheap, generalist droid fodder/operator. You do not want your vacuum to think enough to doubt its own existence.

[@anthonyz6913]

AndyH 1 point. I did not argue with the idea that B1s should not be all purpose. However, the fact that they are does force the engineers to create a more complex processing brain than would otherwise be required. Not arguing that this isn’t stupid, just that it’s a thing that happened.

[@Werrf1]

There's one essential change that would've made the B1 into a genuine threat: Speed. We keep seeing them just plodding forward at walking speed, getting mowed down as they come and giving the main characters plenty of time to use pithy one-liners and witty banter to charge up their plot shields. Have the B1s _run_ into battle. They've got machine precision and machine reflexes; they can run across the battlefield while maintaining their formation, and then they'll be in among the GAR's positions before the clones have a chance to stand up in the open with a rotary blaster going "AAAAHHHHHH!!!"

[@kevinnguyen2230]

To answer the question at the end of the video: I may be wrong here, but according to Halo Wiki, 150 SPARTAN II candidates were selected for the program, but due to last minute budget cuts, only half were allowed be inducted. Dr. Halsey selected the 75 SPARTANs based on the chance of a coin toss. All of this was done prior to the kidnappings.

[@florenceb1031]

I was going to bring this up if someone else didn't. It's covered near the beginning of the book The Fall of Reach.

[@Meravokas]

@@florenceb1031 The coin flip was part of John's final test. It wasn't the actual 50-50 chance for Halsey selecting him. It was a test of the 'intangible' she could sense he had.

[@krazykraz175]

This. It's things like this why I love the books and why I'm glad Halo's expanded universe got streamlined early on so if we're lucky to have it going strong in 40 years we (hopefully) don't have a "of that's not canon anymore" scenario

[@Meravokas]

@@krazykraz175 Problem is, we already had that happen once Microsoft writers took most of the initiative for Reach. And then the Greg Bear novels... I don't think I need to go on.

[@SungJaeUng3]

Glad someone mentioned this.

[@oom-3262]

Excuse me, what the frick guys. This is so rude.

[@duckbread8235]

OOM- 32 sorry

[@sammccoy3946]

I want to be a droidika

[@Journey_to_who_knows]

Why does a advanced robot need binoculars

[@SephirothRyu]

If you didn't read the comment in a B1 battle droid voice, then please do it again.

[@elpoyo8062]

OOM- 32 shut up trash

[@ESFNinja]

Agreed! If Sidious wasn't such a driving factor during the war, the droid army would have been a better, more effective fighting force.

[@kornkernel2232]

True! Sidious really designed the CIS army to be a force that will justify to wage war and build army for the Republic that it will eventually turn into Galactic Empire. If CIS were really just independent faction without someone controlling them from the shadows, likely they will really design their droid army to be more effective and make better strategies.

[@x999uuu1]

Are we being facetious or what

[@Graneczeq]

"Droids should have thier gun built into their arm" B1 has human arms to operate different weapons.

[@ClingyCrab]

This was showed greatly in BF2

[@ExoticButters168]

Kinda like the droideka

[@danshakuimo]

@Tetra They could also pick up another gun from the ground since there would probably be thousands of rifles from other dead droids or clones if they ran out of ammo. I wonder if they even carried extra ammo since it's not visible and maybe they though the droids would die too fast to need to carry extra ammo.

[@oltyret]

I never understand why droids must talk to each other. Especially if they're the same model, they should be able to transmit instantaneous data packages to each other.

[@SamnissArandeen]

*Droids typing at a computer* will always piss me off, just use a data link connection or something what the actual fuck is this shit

[@zachattack1279]

That is done specifically for the audience it's not done for any in universe reason cuz in universe the only people the Droid should be talking to is their commanders

[@zachattack1279]

@@SamnissArandeen I have a kind of stupid theory about this cuz you know how there's the idea of hooking an AI to a bunch of systems and basically allowing it to run a bunch of things like for example in Star wars you could have basically an entire fleet ran by a single AI if it was advanced enough or if it's not advanced enough maybe just an entire ship. Now bear with me I think that the people of the Star wars universe prefer to put that type of AI in small Droid body so that they're easily controllable and if they do go rogue it's easier to put a stop to them they can only cause a problem on Mass. Although the idea of droids typing at a computer is still stupid even with this idea because astromecs can just plug into things

[@MarkusAldawn]

@@zachattack1279 yeah, I think a lot of these problems can be retconned by the use of "the inefficiency is by design so we don't get a Singularity emergence." Some, like the Magna Guards, don't need to talk because a) they only have to fight, they're not all-purpose, and b) it's more intimidating that way. In the words of Isaac Arthur, keep it simple, keep it dumb, or else you'll end up under skynet's thumb.

[@derkaiser2744]

@@zachattack1279 This makes a lot of sense, especially from the standpoint looking back at the Old Republic with the droid revolts. One droid not getting a memory wipe and gaining sentience and then passing that onto a large system of interconnected processing systems would be a very bad thing.

[@H3lios227]

Roger Roger

[@sgtwolf7391]

Roger this. *fires combat shotgun*

[@Kingofmenaces]

Wait whos roger?

[@dead-ishchannel6212]

@@Kingofmenaces im hoping that your comment was a joke

[@Corvus__]

George Machlis: Roger roger. Corvus: What are you doing here clanker? (No scopes at point blank)

[@Corvus__]

@@dead-ishchannel6212 I think it was. That, and probably a reference to Ice Age Dawn Of The Dinosaurs.

[@billclark5055]

You were wrong on many points here. First, defoliator tanks were still used in important battles after season 1 of TCW. They were even used in season 3 of TCW in the Battle of Dathomir. Second, most clones couldn't beat "dozens of battledroids", only the more elite clones had kill counts like that. If you watch any big battle of TCW you will notice that it's rare to see 1 clone kill more than 5 b1s (especially in close combat engagements). Third, clones often only won against the CIS because of Jedi intervention. For instance, Plo Koon's squad would have died if he didn't save them, Yoda's squad in season 1 would have been wiped out if he did not protect them, the 501st would have taken much higher casualties had it not been for Anakin, etc. Fourth, the CIS didn't suck, they are one of the most powerful factions in Star Wars and I think their infantry units would defeat the Empire and Rebellion with ease. Fifth, battle droids excelled in swarm tactics and were also very effective at defending fortified or ranged positions. Sixth, many of the b1 mistakes were for comic relief, more often than not b1s are portrayed as competent enough to do a decent job of basic roles like being gunners when compared to organics. Seventh, battle droids gave clones a run for their money who were some of the most powerful troops in the galaxy. Clones were trained from birth and had been cloned from one of the galaxy's best bounty hunters. B1s often defeated Republic militia forces with realitive ease in direct engagements. Eighth, Republic forces were spread thin during the end of the Clone Wars and were drastically outnumbered. The CIS would have eventually run them down. Ninth, there were some specialized versions of battle droids and specialized versions of droids (Commando droids, jetpack super battle droids, sniper droids, assassin probe droids, crab droids, dwarf spider droids) were already very common. Watch almost any Clone Wars battle and you'll see that the CIS was one of the most diverse factions in fiction. They are like the Covenant in Halo. Ninth, the CIS has many great vehicles like hailfire droids, droid tri fighters and droid gunships that are much more practical than those of other Star Wars factions. Last, the CIS battle droids would often fight with CIS militia forces like nomedians, Geonosians, Quarren, Umbarans, and Trandoshans who woukd balance out their weaknesses. The CIS would have beaten the Republic even with all their limitations had Palpatine not put all the CIS leaders in one convenient place to be killed and would have stomped the Republic if they were not limited by Palpatine (with more supertanks, more droid control ships, and upgraded b1s the Republic wouldn't even last a month).

[@alephkasai9384]

There's also the fact that the moment a B1 gets off the assembly line it instantly knows how to be a soldier, a technician and a pilot at the same time. If there's a new vehicle it can just get an update to be able to use it. No human can ever match that. Of course that same ability is what caused the bugs in the B1s so maybe they should split the B1 into combat and general use so their processors don't go kapoot Also vulture droids are amazing. Only costing 20k credits? That's such a steal.

[@ExoticButters168]

@@alephkasai9384 THATS THE THING the separatist droids were cheap and not very durable so that made them less combat efficient and easier to fight

[@alephkasai9384]

@@ExoticButters168 Well yeah that's the point. They were cheap, easy to make and good enough for what they were designed for. A batch of clone troopers took 10 years to make and train from child to adult. A batch is probably around 200,000 clones as we can see from the movies when Obi Wan visits Kamino. So at full swing 200,000 clones would be produced each year. A normal human force would need anywhere from 3-6 months depending on how much the nation would want to train its soldiers. It's been said that less than half of one percent of the US population joins the armed forces. So for a world like ours that is relatively well off, we would have around 21 million soldiers. That lines up with the amount of soldiers in the world, that is 20.5 million(back in 2009). In peacetime, you'd want to recruit about 5-10% of your armed force's size each year to replace soldiers. So in a year our planet would produce a million soldiers. How long it takes for a droid to actually be produced is unknown but from the movies and tv show, we can garner that once everything is set up a factory can have a rate of production of 1 every minute or more. That's at least 1440 droids each day. Factoring in the time it would take for maintenance as well as replacement and repair of factory parts I'll drop the production to 1000 droids a day. So that's 365,000 a year. This may not sound like much compared to our planet's 1 million and they'd be outgunned even by the 200,000 clones. However, these are figures for a single factory on a single planet. As long as the planet was suitably rich in ore multiple droid factories could be built. It's for certain that the clones were vastly outnumbered by the droid army. But of course, clones are better at killing than droids. At the start of the war, they had an average k/d of 10 and near the end when the clone force was more experienced as well as sabotages to droid production lines, the average k/d was at 20. To match that, the separatists would only need 11 droid factories to match with the k/d ratio of 20 the clones had near the end of the war, and they most definitely had far more than 11 factories. So the Clone Army was quite outgunned. As for cost, the production of even 20 B1 droids would cost far less than a single clone trooper. Although 20 B1 droids would cost around the same as it would take to train and equip a normal human fairly well. The Republic was outgunned and outnumbered. In a war of attrition against the Separatist, they would have lost easily. Every battle that they lost would have much greater consequences for them than it would have had for the CIS. It was only with the ingenuity of individual clones and the help of rebels did they stand their ground and Palpatine's intervention helped them defeat the Separatist.

[@ExoticButters168]

@@alephkasai9384 true and there was only 1 clone factory on kamino and multiple droid factories which made production much easier

[@alephkasai9384]

@@ExoticButters168 Yeah, it's also why the Separatist attack on Kamino is far more strategically important than the Republic attack on Geonosis. The droids are extremely easy to build and as I said their factories can be built anywhere with enough ore or a good logistical network. The clones however can only be made from Kamino as their facilities are the only ones good enough for the job.

[@ianotis9778]

Could the supremacy from tlj ever be used in a practical way or is the ship another stupidly designed dreadnought? #AskEck

[@matthewdavis4834]

Ian Otis Mobile F.O.B.

[@InvictusMatrix]

Long range artillery

[@bobafett9348]

With that big ass not covered weakpoint i say its stupidly designed. However as Matrix said... It could be used as Long Range Artillery, as far away from actual battle as possible.

[@gregjones4705]

@@bobafett9348 where is break the shields of single cruiser?

[@bobafett9348]

Greg Jones If its a Long Range Artillery it can obviously fire at the enemy ships. But as I said, with that giantic hole in the middle, I wouldn't take a risk of it being in a middle of a fight.

[@shingshongshamalama]

The best method for maintaining a coherent command structure, in my opinion, would be to build a C&C tree. Dumb walking sticks are fine if you have moderately intelligent command units to coordinate them on a tactical level. And those tactical elements can be grouped into higher, more complicated command units to operate on a larger scale. Just look at how an actual military operates with a chain of command like the roots of a tree, and then apply that to robots. You don't need to make _every_ individual unit intelligent enough to operate very well independently, but it takes away the vulnerability of having absolutely _all_ of your force coordination determined by one singular point of weakness. Any link in the chain of command can be removed and the whole force structure can adapt to manage it. Even if you remove the army's highest central command authority, they still have the ability to coordinate and function with as much sophistication as the next highest link in the chain will allow them.

[@Conrobot]

Eckhart. I know you'll never see this. But I am drinking and feel the need to let you know that: For months(literal) I have watched a lot SW lore. But NOONE has kept my interest as long as you. Your look on everything is spectacular and your involvement of polls and stuff and upload load rate are incredible. Keep doing god's work. Love you dude

[@stormpants1638]

This needs to be pinned.

[@Vonechar]

@@stormpants1638 Yeah, lots of Star Wars youtubers are shit, they only read Wookiepedia pages, which is a good Wikia nonetheless but come on, can you have contents created by yourself? Eck is one of the best (if not the best) and I wish he'll never join the Dark Side of the Star Wars lore youtubers.

[@MathFarawila]

Grievous actually used a defoliater tank when attacking Dathomir.

[@CommissarTommy22]

The Droid Army's efficiency would have quintupled if only someone had found the mute button

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

They communicate voiclessly. The verbalizing serves as a way of informing organics and as a backup in case of jamming, which is wery common in Star Wars.

[@starwarzchik112]

Roger roger!

[@skylark306]

The CIS droid army run on a magical substance called "Disney villain distill" and can only kill things without plot armor, and is subject to random illogical decision makings and poor hand-sensor coordination at all time. One does not make a villain scary by making a jajaian swallow its equivalent of human saliva.

[@AmusedWalrus]

Lucas is the one who made this problem

[@Eagl3xStrik3]

Same with the Empire

[@histguy101]

Do younger people now believe that Disney always owned Star Wars? Also, it's not a problem as they were designed to be that way from the beginning. They aren't supposed to be very threatening. They only need to sustain a war

[@dominmaj9682]

@@histguy101 in episode 1 and 2 they were menacing.

[@waltergaming6394]

Now this...... this is what I want

[@Finelbell]

Now this is podracing

[@thijmenhermelink1874]

Correction, This is what you N E E D.

[@commandertaco1762]

Even as they are, it's scary to think that they will never stop attacking no matter the odds, they are manufactured in the millions and essentially have an endless manpower pool. This is really exemplified in the activate the droids scene, an army that moves in unison without emotion, without fear, through shields without a second thought

[@LoneWolf20213]

I would just make the B1 droid made like the BX battle droid, but smarter and more tactical and also have them operate with both independent thinking and a space station control center

[@jessemarcus]

especially seeing how special the situation that cost them the droid control ship was

[@odatatsunobu]

I do miss the battle droids from the Phantom Menace. Although, their flaw was the droid control ship, they were more effective.

[@thelordnazgul76]

I really think a droid army is one of the mightiest force you could imagine if done correctly. You gather datas, you improve the programs according to the datas, you can create specialized variants of any type of droid, you don't have to worry about training and you can produce them so fast that any slight upgrade would have massive repercussions on the battlefield. It sound pretty much unstoppable on paper.

[@jasoethesentienteyeshapedg4847]

That is why i have thought up of an Alternate version of the CIS Droid Army. Since this is going to be long, then i am just gonna sum up their entire features and key points: 1.) Instead of being shut down like your computer having a blue screen of death, they have accidentally discovered the secret plans to have them all shut down by Darth Sidious, so they have set up a back-up plan to avoid getting shut down. 2.) A cabal made up by a certain Super Tactical Droid named Kalani has been composed of important Separatists sympathizers that has the motivation to keep the CIS going strong after Order 66 has been unleashed. 3.) Secretly made an Alliance with the Shard Species, which are basically Force-sensitive sentient carbon based crystals, in order for them to learn and harness the Force and hopefully...integrate them into the Droid Army. 4.) They are Droids, so why not explore the Unknown Regions for further colonization of habitable planets or drill up some asteroids for resources like a fucking thirsty capitalist. 5.) Since they are not on the same level as the Galactic Empire, they secretly expand their forces by making the entire Outer Rim their armored fortress of fuckery. 6.) Despite having a intergalactic scale army, they still remained Neutral as they still hold up the mantle to expand the CIS even more, even after massacring their separatist council and holds their respective races under their iron will. 7.) With the Droid Empire have all been set up, they divided their respective territories like North, West, East, and South with each having their own unique Super Tactical Droid or certain individuals who can lead the CIS to the future. 8.) Their main B1 Battle Droid mainframe have been upgraded with the same chassis as the BX Commando Droid. 9.) No wrecked abandoned Space ships are safe within their sights, because they jack that dead bitch up with their independent way of engineering. 10.) Magnaguards plus Shard Species equals OH SHIT! Super Tactical Droid plus Shard Species equals *R E S P E C T*

[@hansnacht6080]

This sadly would never happen but I like it, also it does make sense that they would go way far out away from everyone and harvest untouched asteroids and build up.

[@clyax113]

All good ideas.

[@lv_Mortarion_vl]

this guy has the best outro on youtube....bloody hell, gets me smiling every time hha

[@Jfk2Mr]

I think that in matter of OOM and B-1 droids there is something to add - their main issue was bad maintenance and against who fought - in majority of their screen time they fight against Jedi or clones so elite troops. In EU besides CW TV show B-1 is very capable machine, outmaching most organic soldiers - sure, they're not deadliest droids in CIS arsenal, but good for their price. About their construction and software - as they are replacement for organic soldiers, law about military labour force is applied. Also any B-1 or OOM should be able to grab weapon fight when f.e. ship is being boarded

[@SomeOne-gs7sy]

2 words. More. DRODIKAS. Seriously they shred clones! No strategy needed! Just remember to activate shielding or else they’ll be the ones shredded.

[@trianglean806]

If you only have one type of main battle droid, the clone troopers will just develop tactics to reliably counter the droidikas.

[@favoriteunclecliff3812]

Wow i super excited about this episode because you have said a-few of the things I have been saying this whole time. Excellent episode dude. Personally i think this cis would benefit from quick blitz runs on republic controlled planets. One is jumping out of hyperspace with in orbit of a planet and quickly deploying rocket b2 to attack clones. While the ensuing chaos is happening have the bombers and fighter harassing troops and key locations as landers drop troops off in bulk. #ASKECK My question for you is if you could custom build a flag ship. What would it look like? Mine would be as long as the supremacy is wide and as wide and it is long. It would have a munificent face with subjugator jaw. Devistator gun and heavier larger melevelance body with a longer and larger providence rear. A carrier/ droid control/ battleship super weapon.

[@davidpahlman8166]

4:40- this is indeed how things worked in Legends. In the Revenge of the Sith novelization, Cody comments on this during the Battle of Utapau, noting that, upon the destruction of the Lucrehulk Core, the Battle Droids triggered a set of standing orders. “Standing order number one, evidently, was shoot anything that moves”

[@elicrowther7566]

6:46 I thought the defoliator cannon showed up again when General Grievous took Dathomir

[@WeissTreufel]

You bring up excellent points EckartsLadder. The fact that the CIS didn't go full-on 'skynet' across the galaxy is truly a shame. We missed out on what could have been one of the best eras of Star Wars. In the clone wars episode 'bounty' S4-E20, a young Boba Fett has possession of not only a much more effective combat droid, It literally looks the part of an imposing murder-machine. I believe the droid in question was named 'C-21 Highsinger'

[@darthvader4594]

the important thing is that the republic was outnumbered by the CIS battle droids,their quality didn't matter that much.

[@Blitzwaffen]

@Lockjaw to be clear you are confirming Vader's statement. The wording is confusing but he is referring to the same result.

[@christiandauz3742]

@Lockjaw Only because nobody in Star Wars knows how to shoot, fight or use their brains! Seriously, the Imperial Guard would have crushed both the Republic and CIS in just months without outnumbering the Clones!

[@christiandauz3742]

@Lockjaw Soldiers in Real Life do not fight as pathetically as the Clones and Stormtroopers in Star Wars!

[@christiandauz3742]

@Lockjaw Not on Endor or any other fucking battle I swear that not even the North Koreans or Al-Qaeda are this stupid

[@christiandauz3742]

@@imppro The 501st have been there for a few years Stupid it is not to exterminate the Ewoks at first contact No Real Life Army or Criminal/Terrorist Gang would lose to Ewoks Had the British have AK-47s they would have killed the Zulus!

[@vampirecount3880]

I know this video is kinda old and not a lot of people will see this but regardless... Some things i disagree with Eckhart's and its all on lore btw since only watching the movies i would 100% agree with him. 3:27 Battle droids can use basic tactics and use cover, they dont seen to do that very well mostly because of plot devices to make de good guys survive or because theyre in a assault instance were pushing the line is more important than not taking casualties. Same issue of the stormtroopers that supposed to be elite but in the movies they looks like joke. 4:08 They did not remove the central control, they just started producing droids that did not require the central command input to operate. They still kept their old series and most separatist capital ships did have a droid brain capable to suport the old B-1s, you don't necessarily requires a lucrehulk class for that. You can see that in the sw:clone wars series as some B1's comments on how they are superior than others in their units becuase theyre "independent thinkers". I dont have confirmation on this so just a theory of mine, but i think the new droids that doesnt require the command input does still coordanate using that sorce and only go full independent if he lose signal. So if my theory is right their independent processing is only a failsafe. 4:51 The problem of using more lucrehulks is that not only theyre expensive but every lucrehulk frighter turn into battleship is an asset not hauling cargo for the economy of the CIS. So im pretty sure they use as much as possible of the most powerfull mass produced capital ship of the clone wars. 4:54 They are, B1's are usually comanded by OMMs as officers and tactical droids and super tactical droids when possible. The thing is in star wars a really intelligent droid is VERY expensive. 5:53 They actually have improvements being made in their programing but you dont see that a lot because the war simply didn't last for long, only 3 years.

[@barrybend7189]

Best mainline mechs: UN Spacey( SDF Macross) Earth Federation( UC Gundam) The Clans( Battletech) Terran Dominion( StarCraft).

[@2awsommee4U]

Clans pretty much.

[@austinreid3951]

Mechs? as in Mechsuits? if you want a good Mech, Turn to the Tau from 40k. Ide wager the XV-104 Riptide could Defeat all of these guys (minus the Gundam because Anime scares me) Dont mind me tho, just throwing my 2 bits into the meatgrinder

[@drizzt7dourden7]

@@austinreid3951 well yea but then we come back to the age old problem of "whenever warhammer is involved it wins 95% of the time" so including them is kinda pointless ^^ + did you realy just add warhammer into a discussion about mechs and NOT add the titans??? O.o

[@barrybend7189]

@@austinreid3951 I didn't go with 40k because nothing mech wise is mass produced only hand made customs. And if they are mass produced( Tau) they are highly specialized.

[@barrybend7189]

@@tootyfruity70 I said best so its probably the Javelin.

[@NVDuster]

Holy shit that B1 from 2:30 - 2:33 just gunned down two jedi with surprising accuracy, gotta watch it closely and a few times but you'll see it.

[@kennethkates3140]

Personal shield technology compared Dune Halo Mass Effect and Star Wars

[@jscott1622]

I already know all about energy shields

[@barrybend7189]

Dune.

[@SixshotRevan]

@@jscott1622 I honestly never expected to hear a KotOR reference THAT obscure. Kudos.

[@robertgernat2858]

Add in warhammer 40k for personal shield comparison episode as well.

[@Will32768]

Favorite youtuber, always coming back

[@ne3333t]

I have a few points about the video I would like you to see: TCW ruined the battledroids for me. Before, they seemed like they were pretty decent soldiers. Think about all the excuses that had to be made up because of TCW's stupid portrayal of them. I can't go anywhere without someone saying they are stupid, including this video, even though in the movies they did not show any excessively stupid behavior or dialogue. Heck! They even landed their shots! In the movies, they did not bumble around missing all their shots and and standing in large formation out in the open (well, except for geonosis, but the clones did the exact same thing). I was always a fan of the CIS, and I feel like people treat them like a joke, all because of TCW. Videos like this make me mad. You could have at least addressed how before TCW, the CIS was portrayed much more competently. It just breaks my heart. Think about it.

[@LiamN4321]

Nicholas Eitenmiller Same with grievous.

[@christiandauz3742]

Watch the 2003 2D version of the Clone Wars

[@mahershl3538]

The clone wars TV show made me look bad

[@rafayh]

When you think about it, the battle droids used in the Clone wars (timewise) weren't that well explored. Remember, changes were made after the battle of Naboo to make them more independent. I agree that they could've been used better, but you have to give credit to TCW for actually expanding them and revealing things like multiple models (some using a central computer system while others are FULLY independent)

[@jackflanagan903]

@@mahershl3538 So uncivilized....

[@thejoojoo9999]

I never ever get bored of your outtro

[@cominguponinfra-red3038]

Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (381st try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*

[@bobafett9477]

coming up on infra-red never give up my friend. Can’t wait to see your reaction when he finally makes this video

[@jackflanagan903]

Try the #askeck

[@Te0L0ser]

I think Palpatine wanted an inadequate droid army so they could be rid of easily after the start of the empire.

[@nobleman9393]

Which Sci-Fi faction has the best special forces | UNSC,Terran Dominion,Systems Alliance,Galactic Republic.

[@LiamN4321]

Erich von Jingoism Imperium of Man of course.

[@jasoethesentienteyeshapedg4847]

@@LiamN4321 How about...fucking no?! We don't need them to break up a match too quickly.

[@jasoethesentienteyeshapedg4847]

For me, the best one is Terran Dominion's Ghost and Spectres. I mean, some are psychic, can camouflage, and some can deploy tactical nukes on a certain location.

[@barrybend7189]

@@jasoethesentienteyeshapedg4847 all Ghosts and specters are Teeps a select few are also Teeks.

[@Buzzy_Bland]

Just an All Seeing Omnipresent Eye Eh. If we leave out Space Marines, I.e. the Deathwatch, then I think it’s be fine. The best candidate would be Tempestus Scions, I.e. Stormtroopers, and being regular humans, it’d be less ridiculous.

[@Tigervm07]

"Take this KZbin video upstairs and dont lose it." 3 sec later: B1 droid drops phone... Great video 😂👍

[@Demolisher-cl2sm]

But without the b1 where would our comic relief come from?? other than jar jar

[@basteala525]

4:50 Totally agree. Heck, I was thinking it while you were describing the situation with B1s. With a Droid Control Ship they were pretty solid on Naboo, and the Droid Control Ship could probably store a much better AI. The B1's Ai was garbage, but could be a passable auxiliary unit.

[@alemorichetti6368]

I actually think that if Palpatine didn’t intervene in the CIS plans they would of won easily. They literally had unlimited amounts of droid to just invade planets and crush the limited clone army.

[@Noplayster13]

The Stinky Dwarf Their tactics weren’t even up to Soviet standards! They were using Napoleonic tactics, with files, ranks, and marching in formation into battle! A single artillery strike could wipe out a full division. Who wrote this?

[@BurkinaFaso69]

Without Palpatine the CIS would never have mobilized nor even think about going agains the republic

[@EroticOnion23]

Question is, if the CIS were so much more powerful why didn’t he use the CIS to take over the Republic other than the first route?

[@redrumssam5888]

@@EroticOnion23 Because that was way too risky. Multiple times, MULTIPLE TIMES the Sith had gathered armies to bring the fall of the republic. Each time they failed. With this, Palpatine had the ability to change the Republic from within and there would be no repercussions to him if he failed. His plan was disgustingly fool proof

[@EroticOnion23]

@Amber Hoke Mmm that makes more sense.

[@eternalshade8817]

Brillant. I love how aware you are of the reality of a Star Wars galaxy. You think like me but 100 times better. You would be a great logistic person or a general, or innovator . Very cool. Just love your perspective, through knowledge, and way of thinking. Really enjoy your videos

[@Kingofmenaces]

C-3PEO vs b1 FIGHT! C30EO: AHHHH!!! Its a battle droid B1: halt Blast! C3peo: Oh no ive been shot im dead know

[@maloc1824]

Love it when he cut off the droids head turned away like he won only to have to continue the fight

[@austinreid3951]

Suggestion, Which, in your mind, works better? the Doctrine the galactic Republic Used for war Versus the Doctrine the Tau empire uses? could be a good way to talk about tactics, and talk more about the Tau, possibly one of the most under rated Empires and things in general of 40k

[@proffesionalidiot5994]

Austin Reid But they don’t even have melee!

[@nobleman9393]

@@proffesionalidiot5994 They have sticks, very sharp sticks

[@adambielen8996]

It's more that the Tau occupy such a tiny portion of the Galaxy compared to the other factions and have such slow FTL speeds that they are irrelevant more than anything.

[@originaluddite]

What could have been great is if the 'Clone Wars' had involved _all_ sides using clones, which is what we imagined as kids back in the late 70s.

[@SageSea1]

Tmw their accuracy was still better than a stormtroopers, even with the literal downgraded version of the stormtroopers weapon I do agree though. Battledroids were best utilized in episode 1 with their systematic tactics and 0 emotion. They were actually all equally coordinated by 1 super system and sounded intimidating. They never tired or stopped advancing, were completely in sinc and though still not individually powerful, these types of formations were a perfect exploit of their hilariously large numbers. Oom-9 was also an effective commander, coupled with the smooth finish of well-placed armor and artillery made them rather frightening in episode 1. In episode 2 they were pretty similar, but they were faster moving because individual programming and thus spread out way too much and locked on to too many smaller, personal targets instead of coordinating a wall of fire. Then in clone wars, they became quirky fodder for some reason, and were only effective when plot needed to thicken. I also agree that leaving your foot soldier incompetent all through the clone wars instead of giving even the slightest upgrades while coming up with new droid variants was really redundant and 100% the working of palpatine. Also, you are right about localised cis projects, though it is implied in their name lol "CONFEDERACY of INDEPENDENT systems." This also helps explain why there were so many droid variants over the clone wars, eaching founding corporation giving their own contributions. Still, I wish a lot of "unique" cis weapons or troops that changed an episode would be seen again outside of said episode or the one planet they were stationed. That said, you are really overlooking the other aspects of their army. For example, B2s were important and droidekas were menacing. They also had a perfect vehicle system and never ran out of resources. With their trillions of soldiers rivaling the sentient population of the entire galaxy, compared to the republics 6 million, they easily couldve won a coruscant invasion by the end of episode 2, especially with the low clone population/ lesser armor and the battledroids still somewhat effective (the was before they became comedic relief.) Too bad palpatine wanted them to lose, and most of their battles were lesser skirmishes where their daunting size didnt matter.

[@Lans32485]

Well, aside from the Palpatine factor, this is what you get when you run your army on executive meddling.

[@GeneralGrievousHeroTCW]

1. The CIS doesn't suck. 2. I (Grievous Hero) did use a DDT on Dathomir so they were still produced. 3. The CIS are the good guys during TCW. 4. If the droid wen't back to their Trade Federation they would've lost the war earlier. Also, don't come to me with cheap answers because I will shut your opinions down quickly as I am facts. #GrievousIsAHero 4 Life!

[@jasonskeans3327]

The cis commited dozens if not more mlm of atrocious and war crimes

[@GeneralGrievousHeroTCW]

@@jasonskeans3327 SO Did the Jedi and Republic. Not all CIS members are good but some are like Grievous (Hero in TCW) and Trench. The CIS is a heroic antagonistic faction in TCW and always will be. The crimes were by the people, not Grievous, not Trench, but Dooku, ROTS Grievous and many more. The #JediAreEvil and always will be. So...yeah....Nothing else to say there!

[@jasonskeans3327]

@@GeneralGrievousHeroTCW grievouse was a war crimminal andnthe republic did far less then the cis also the republic didn't use civilians as shields or bioweapons

[@jasonskeans3327]

@@GeneralGrievousHeroTCW the jedi are not evil if you honestly believe that you are stupid

[@Noplayster13]

General Grievous Hero TCW battle tactics wise, I’d say the CIS really sucks. However, the Republic isn’t any better. I rewatched the first and second movies now that I’m an adult and I have to say, any WW2 military with any degree of competence would have wiped those armies out with near 0 losses. Especially the battle of Naboo. I mean 1 clean artillery strike would have neutralized the whole droid army.

[@Kyoptic]

The only outro I always watch the whole way through

[@thedishonoredamerican129]

Notification squad report in.

[@timbartschwolfman]

Red Leader Standing by

[@NikitaWolf1776]

Gold Leader Checking In

[@joskatollar9513]

Red 1 reporting in!

[@craignewsome2058]

Silver Leader standing by

[@Zen-sx5io]

Blue leader on standby. Also, I like your username.

[@athibi9461]

Basically the CIS army was organized by businessmen who only looked for the least expensive/ most profitable solution without considering wether the final product was actually sufficient or even fully competed. ... I guess they asked EA to build their army for them.

[@zachs5596]

The best content. Period.

[@eziokill9112]

My dad beats me when I lose our Snapchat streak.

[@reverseflash8520]

#askeck How powerful are the Chimera from Resistance?

[@TeraQuad]

Good question. Love the lore and that game.

[@PutTheCookieDown]

A lot of these designs and upgrades didn’t happen because Sidious was behind both ends of the War, whom the future Empire would have replaced with their undercover clone army.

[@Gibbons3457]

The Droid army was already too good by the end of the clone wars, yes literally everything you said makes sense but really if it isn't broken why break it? The CIS lost because they were designed to lose and they still put up a brutal fight. The B1 was overused because one it was cost-effective, even if you don't see it. A lot of Jedi died to B1s overwhelming them, we just see a lot of the ones that didn't. Furthermore, the CIS was balancing a tight budget, yes they could switch B1s to none combat roles but that takes time money and recourses that they can just spend on building more B1s for combat. In a galaxy of bipedal organics with two hands best to have your frontline soldier able to interact with the galaxy at large. Then you've got to take into account Stormtrooper syndrome, B1s look bad to us because we see them fighting Clones and Jedi but they weren't just fighting CLones and Jedi the GAR was not that big and couldn't be everywhere at ones, as we saw in Episode 1 B1s are more than a match for most civilian soldiers or local militias, through numbers alone. You are still looking at war from the perspective of battles, wars aren't won through battles but through economics. The CIS could outproduce the GAR and was even until the end of the war. B1s are fine, they do their job just well enough. Then you have literally every other droid in the CIS, they have Vulture droids which you noted are very good hybrid weapons platforms, they have Tri fighters which are so deadly Jedi fear them, Octuptara and Tri droids are powerful artillery platforms, crab and DSD 1 droids are deadly weapons platforms against vehicles and infantry alike, Snail tanks, Ahlifire, homing Spider and AATs are all more than a match for Republic armor and can be built in massive numbers. The reason the droids could do all that is because they could make specialist droids and generalist droids that were always going to have mass infantry cover thanks to B1s. Every planet the CIS had under there control was as far as we know some form of factory, Geonosis, Uptapau Mygeeto, Felucia. The didn't have time to mature it because they had three years to do it all. The war started earlier than they had planned and they had to go to war with what they had, given another year or so and we might have seen them switch from B1s to all B2s on the front lines. You don't go to war with a perfect army, you go to war with the army you have and you make do.

[@ExoticButters168]

Your right but imo they built more factories in the planets they conquered which was good BUT there programming was not great and they were quite cheap and they had no battle tactics programmed into them unlike the clones who were breed to do so

[@JumboGaming001]

Beans

[@zjanez2868]

what you said reminds me of the WW2 situation between PPSH41 and PPS43 PPS 43 was a later design and was much cheper and arguably better, but by the time it was created half of USSR was already stamping out PPSH-es and so the PPS was produced in smaller numbers

[@erikkingoftherats4412]

Watching the clone wars made me realize how ineffective the Droid were at communicating. It was all done verbally or through text. Why couldn't they have at least some sort of internal com system? Even internal radio would be better as even though it could be hacked, it could be useful as long term immediate communication. Anakin was spotted so often by droids and all he had to do was kill them before they escaped and could tell on him. If every other Droid could hear "what? A jedi?" before they lost the signal at least some of them could try to do something

[@crawman1443]

#askeck Would you consider instead of using b-1s you use the commando droids and the command droids as seen in Star Wars the clone wars

[@Buzzy_Bland]

crawman1 If money wasn’t a part of the decision making process, and you’ve got some kind of genie that will majick all your B1’s into commando droids across the galaxy instantly, then sure. Go nuts. Otherwise it’s not so simple as saying “let’s replace the millions of droids we already have with these other droids that are better”. You don’t just throw out war materiel.

[@crawman1443]

Well you’d substitute and the money wasn’t an issue it was also to show that you would siphon out b-1 for commando and use b-1s as they said as non combative rolls

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@crawman1443 or you could cut costs and simply use commando droid programing, don't bother wasteing money on the extra armor (you can easily repair loses), don't waste money on extra strength (B1s are already supposed to be twice as strong as humans), don't waste money on sword programing or voice mimicking, etc. just use B1s with BX commando inteligiance and programing. still more expensive then regular B1s but far superior. imagine swamping an enemy with a couple thousand B1-X (B1s with BX programing) with BX droids dropped behind their lines.

[@brotherhoodpaladin2403]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 i like your i idea its good

[@mill2712]

In that case instead of upgrading the B1, downgrade the BX to have lighter armor, lessen agility, and just give them competent enough tactical programming if you cannot spend too much on these droids. You could also just use the B1 (With better intelligence of course.) for just the protection of non essential military/merchant ships like they were meant to and policing, private body guarding and civil services.

[@HORRIOR1]

What would be the ultimate battle droid that could be made in Star Wars? Like imagine if you made a single super soldier droid, that had General Grievous' maneuverability, Droideka's energy shields, B3' size and build in weaponry, whatever you can get from Dark Troopers, and give it the most advanced combat AI seen in all of Star Wars.

[@kennethkates3140]

2 Harrower Dreadnaughts vs 1 Imperial Star Destroyer

[@therealbobafett]

Bro I see your comment every time and it's admiral you keep trying 👍🏻

[@backgroundcharacter1071]

@@therealbobafett admirable

[@therealbobafett]

@@backgroundcharacter1071 whoops. Thanks

[@deletoblue9067]

General Grievous wants to know your location... he wants to give you a hug because you agree with him

[@100_American_Bison]

Spartans vs N7 or Pilots (Titanfall) and UNSC Marines vs System Alliance Marines

[@PittBullBytes]

impossible to determine. too many factors. which Spartan line are we talking about? is the N7 a Biotic or a form of engineer. do these skills give an edge against the Spartans shields? are UNSC standard weapons even effective against System Alliance Mass Effect Shields that can block WAY more powerful guns that are standard issue in their own universe? will these guns rip through the shields of Spartans? is it a straight up fight, or is their some tactics going in? And WHO IS FIGHTING? is it Master Chief John-117 vs Commander Shepard? if so, they have a variety of abilities and equipment the player can choose from as individuals. or is it a generic fight. is it even 1v1 or teams, as both have been known to work in teams

[@robbycarlson6133]

How bout UNSC marines vs the clone galactic marines

[@DragonHeart53]

to answer that final question about spartan 2s having numbers going up to 150, but only having 75 members, there WERE 150 children that were monitored, but only 75 were taken for training. Halsey specifically wanted to evaluate each child before their abduction and had intended to only take 75 of the 150 that they were keeping track of.

[@Ethan-mn5mk]

3 unsc Paris class frigate vs 1 venator stardestroyer

[@johnshepherd7882]

That moment you understand that Clone wars are basically Palpatine vs Palpatine

[@kennethkates3140]

Terran Marines(StarCraft) vs Imperial Storm Troopers

[@Aliexster]

I'd rather see Terran Marines (StarCraft) face off against Space Marines (40K).

[@amyfinlayson2762]

Aliexster aren’t 40k marines ridiculously overpowered?

[@nobleman9393]

@@amyfinlayson2762 Yes, they are

[@Aliexster]

@@amyfinlayson2762 That is the issue with some 40K fluff: Depending upon who's writing the thing, Marines can either survive getting stepped on by an Imperator Titan to getting gutted by a surprise hormogaunt hopping out of an air duct. There are several major deficiencies with the Marines, how hard it is to produce them, both in gene seed and equipment being forgotten dark age tech. Being hyper-focused on certain forms of warfare with little to no practical experience outside of that. And of course their mental status is often dubious with all of the hypnoindoctrination and primarch curses flying about.

[@christiandauz3742]

It would take several Stormtroopers to beat the average Terran Marine The Elites of the Terran Dominion as well as the War Pigs of Raynor's Raiders are twice as dangerous and would kill three times as many Stormtroopers Imperium Scions would just go through Terran Marines like a Chainsaw would go through Butter!

[@TheStuffEnjoyer]

I am subscriber to this channel simply because of the dog at the end of every video thus far XD

[@justafaniv1097]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your analysis here. The CIS was grossly outnumbered on a biological scale. They needed lots of troops, which the B1 allows for. On top of that, they are insanely adaptable, given that they can do so many tasks. They may do nothing really well, but they fill the roles well enough so that precious R&D and production time doesn't have to be spent on specialized models. Regarding control ships, the CIS usually loses space battles. While battle droids can cheaply close the numbers gap on the ground, the core, and Kuat in particular, have the best shipyards. The CIS simply can't compete at that level, and time and time again we see the Republic win a space battle and then commence a ground invasion. Had the droids never been given full autonomy, the republic would never have to fight another ground invasion and could play to their strengths in space, kill the control ship, or bombard/sabotage any ground based station. I will say though, while the B1 was super versatile, the CIS dropped the ball putting them on ships. Presumably, the CIS is full of patriotic citizens willing to fight against the perceived tyranny of the republic, and while they could never compete population, B1 more than make up for it on the ground, and would have allowed the navy (minus the fighters) to be fully manned by sentients. Just a little more creativity in space or organic intuition could have won the CIS innumerable space battles.

[@rebelfriend9006]

Had the models not been changed after Naboo the droids could have destroyed the republic for they had no remorse no empathy and not stoping or taking cover ever I think droid control ships should have been built into capital ships or had the droid computer in tanks on the ground.

[@spinningredchair8092]

An army of B2's would have definitely meant the end of the Republic. There's no way clones could take on *_quintillions_* of them.

[@jonathonspears7736]

4th. Earliest I've ever been. Edit: TY for the love.

[@ZX12]

Me:*sees title* Also me:THAT'S THE LAST ROGER THAT YOU ROGERED

[@corwinhyatt519]

A: OOM (the droids used as crew in Separatist ships) =/ B1 Battle droid. B1's programming was worse and they were battlefield units only, OOMs also didn't have magnetic joints. You're conflating the two droids (easy to do, basically the same chassis though the OOM Series was what the Trade Federation based their brainless B1s on when they purchased them). The OOM was a Gen Purpose unit that included security and combat in its possible roles. The B1 was a brain dead automaton that required a central control unit because Gunrey was a paranoid skinflint (even the droidikas that the Trade Federation used were neutered versions of the Coilcoids primary battle droid product). B: After Naboo the use of central control units was reduced but not completely eliminated. Re: Tactical Droids. C: All of your issues with the CIS droid army including what A and B address are centered with how they are presented by the writers in a space drama (the majority of the content of which was made for kids and young teens) where the droid armies were the "enemy" and intended to loose from the beginning. Why aren't they T-88 (a Terminator reference) level of capability? Because the story was written for 9-13 year olds… We just happen to enjoy it too.

[@adambielen8996]

Ecks point for A was that the CIS was using the same chassis for multiple roles. It would have been a better idea to have the OOM and the B1 have different chassis that are specifically designed to fit their purpose.

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@adambielen8996 you don't need different chasis, what would you gain, only extra costs. 2 arms are good at many things combat troops need to do (making droids with arms usful), 2 legs are easier to maintain then more (aswell as more manuverable) and cheaper then repulsor lift while better off road then wheels and tougher then tracks. a head allows a larger field of vission and a thin neck means its less likely to be shot off, both are strong enough (the B1 is twice as strong as a human)and quite tough (the clones had to have special blasters designed to specificaly kill droids as droids are more resistant to regular blasterfire, meaning B1s are fairly tough) the only downside of the B1 is its programing and the fact its a villian of a childs series (the movies portrayed them better then the clone wars, but even then its just a movie which are partly inspired by old ww2 movies were elite germans act stupidly and can't aim)

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

+Adam Bielen Pleasw count the variety of guns mointed to an M113 and come back once you are done.

[@corwinhyatt519]

@@matthiuskoenig3378 Good reference. A Lightsaber vs an OOM = Flamethrower vs an infantryman. The OOM or infantryman might survive, but what they're left with isn't pleasant.

[@Arcaryon]

I think that the influence of mega cooperations was one of the main reasons why the droid armies were so underdeveloped. By using his power, Palpatine was able to manipulate the most powerful forces in the Republic into being destroyed which made his rise to power almost unchallenged. Maneuvering the Separatists like that was a masterpiece if you think about it. He not only tricked them into starting a civil war which ultimately was designed to be their end but he also managed to keep the Separatists armies on an inferior level via powerful assets like Grevious, Count Duko or Ventress which basically prolonged the war until his apprentice in Anakin was fully under his grip. By utilizing his position he eradicated what at the time was the biggest threat of his ambitions for a centralized autocratic galactic empire. He even managed to bring down his personal foes, the Jedi in merely hours via the order 66. The droids were weak, they were not loyal and they would have made for an army which could be taken over via a number of ways. No matter how skilled, a machine remains a machine. Brainwashing clones however was as simple as pushing a button and they were born to follow orders from him and only him. We see multiple occasions where droids were taken over by individuals; sometimes only in small but more often than not quite significant numbers and now imagine having an army that consists of possible traitors who could simply be manipulated via a few control panels. There always had to be a central control somewhere to coordinate movments no matter how independent these machines were and these ships or stations would have been like a bare throat to anyone who dared challenging him. Clones on the other hand were modeled after one of the best bounty hunters in the galaxy, who's son would later become one of the most efficient assets known to the empire. A machine is a fantastic opportunity to assist clones but it just has a weakness that is too large to ignore. Imagine if just one of the codes would be broken - entire battalions all over the planetary systems suddenly turning on their commanders. The chanclor had to create a foe that had teeth but was designed to be beaten, to drive the Jedi right into the trap. And succeeded.

[@Delosian]

You're missing the big picture: The CIS army was never supposed to win. It was designed to be enough of a threat that the Senate would give all its power to Palpatine, and then be easily defeated by the clone army, in other words, a paper tiger.

[@RKNGL]

From a historical standpoint the CIS sounds like Austria-Hungary in WWI. They had examples of highly advanced technology and tactics but failed to share these tactics or integrate effective ones into their doctrines. Advances were overlocalized and sections of the army were suspicious of other parts so refused to adequately work together. They were a great power that mismanaged much of its own resources and would consistently undermine its ability to fight and even govern.

[@Humble_Merchant]

So basically, they suck because Star Wars writers don't know how to write a proper robot army?

[@ineednochannelyoutube5384]

All the mistakes of the droids are also committed by the clones in ep 2. Its like the beginning of WWI. Armis with heavy artillery and automatic weapons trying to fight with Napoleonic tactics. By ep3 they get better. Most of the stupidity comes from the clone wars, which I refuse to take at face value.

[@toradora1439]

Yeah pretty much.

[@histguy101]

No, they suck because they were designed to suck. The real villain is Palpatine, and he's using both the droids and the clones to sustain a war in which he is given more power. From Ep1, you can see BTS footage of the droids being described as "not very threatening." It's sort of the point of them.

[@clyax113]

I don't know. I think having those big design flaws were integral to showing the audience that they were always held back by Palpatine.

[@EthanThomson]

for the spartan II question, for the first generation of Orion Phase II (Spartan II) there were 150 candidates shortlisted, but ONI cut funding down to 75 candidates. the original funding allowed for 300, but as you can guess this was cut before they started looking at candidates this would mean every candidate would have a number given to them before they were abducted, with the final 75 actually joining the program, and the rest just carrying on with life without knowing anything