How the Republic won the SECOND BATTLE OF GEONOSIS | Star Wars Battle Breakdown

[@EckhartsLadder]

Did you guess the battle correctly on twitter today? twitter.com/eckhartsladder

[@danielmartin9057]

Yay u used my idea!!!

[@RetiredMemeLord]

you forgot to add "by a miracle".

[@fritz324]

I think the reason why the republic didn't bomb the factory from orbit was that they wanted to catch poggle

[@bluerobin2982]

Luchrehulk vs imperial star destroyer

[@Delta-zy1et]

god idea, thelucerhulk is cool

[@randomrevanite8810]

How to secure the dropsite? "nuke the site from orbit it's the only way to be sure"

[@barrybend7189]

Exterminatus the only way to be sure.

[@26th_Primarch]

FOR THE EMPEROR!!!

[@emmanueltrejo4226]

Random Revanite orbital bombardments are 100% they always hit the ground!

[@barrybend7189]

But in all seriousness just do a two pronged bombardment to level the upper factory then send in troops.

[@sunnyboi2371]

Nuclear launch detected

[@bluemilk66]

Should be named "How the Republic Barely Won the Second Battle of Geonosis".

[@SC-ce3vp]

Or how the republic nearly lost to toasters armed with toasters

[@catchamp1880]

@@SC-ce3vp "Bread for battle"

[@jamesspargo9399]

Love the name Blue Milk

[@yog7439]

Blue Milk Hey Blue

[@thesussybaka7733]

@@SC-ce3vp Or How the Republic nearly lost 3 of their most powerful generals and best comanders

[@christianvennemann9008]

"goOD thINg thOSe bUGs cAN't AIm."

[@mrbuttermaker2927]

*LAAT EXPLODES*

[@antitroller101]

*MOroN GoEs FLYing Out OF THE LAAT STiLL ALIve*

[@01kidwitheyeballs]

Queue the curb your enthusiasm theme.

[@taimoorkhan3529]

THIS IS GOLD

[@christianvennemann9008]

@@01kidwitheyeballs There's actually a version with an earrape version of the Seinfeld theme. It's amazing! 🤣🤣

[@ESFNinja]

Simple: The bugs can’t aim.

[@aquariusm.910]

Ki Adi Mundi: bring em' the flame throwers.

[@Deadassbruhfrfr]

That's racist.

[@aquariusm.910]

@@Deadassbruhfrfr Shut up clanker lol

[@neofulcrum5013]

Famous last words

[@izumishion6267]

Yeah. Guess what happened when a clone said that.

[@michaelramon2411]

As I said on your First Battle of Geonosis video, I believe that Geonosis is one of the most orbital-bombardment-resistant planets in Star Wars, save only a water world like Mon Calamari. The Geonosians live almost entirely underground in an extremely rocky environment, and it would seem they have ways of getting supplies without going to the surface. Ordinarily turbolaser fire is not going to do very much against their fortifications, at least not without months of work. Remember that the Empire, when they tried to wipe out the Geonosians, resorted to chemical weapons. If the Republic just parked above the landing zone and kept bombarding the area, the Geonosian ground-based cannons could be moved to safety within the tunnels (this is what actual artillery does against air superiority), while Geonosian fighters make runs on the bombardment craft, potentially costing the Republic a Venator or more. We saw during the Battle of Ryloth that CIS proton cannons are capable of threatening Acclamators, so the bombarding craft would need to be very high up, removing their ability to perform precise bombardment. More importantly, and I think the best explanation for all of this, the Republic was clearly quite spooked by the fact that they had lost Geonosis without noticing (and, at the time of the landings, did not know how that had happened), as well as the intel they had on the factory and the supertanks. Indeed, if they had delayed the landings by any significant amount of time, the LZ would be crawling with Geonosian supertanks, and their ability to operate on the ground on Geonosis would essentially be eliminated, save by Jedi commando teams. Yes, orbital fire can probably destroy a supertank, but a cruiser's ability to accurately target them while not being shot down by proton cannons is pretty limited, and the supertanks can always hide in the tunnels until the bombardment stops and the landing troops arrive. While I probably would have delayed the landings a day or at least several hours to give the bombers more time to chew through the anti-air defenses, provided more fighter escorts to the LAATs and tried to land them a bit further back rather than flying them all the way to the shield, I think the general attack plan here was understandable. Especially since I believe this is pretty early in the war, so the Republic is still trying to learn how to use its assets and the Jedi are only just beginning to adjust to their new role as generals. It's sort of like the early stages of the American Civil War or World War I - everyone's screwing up, but the survivors learn enough to get gud. I think that in general, Eck, you believe that orbital bombardment in Star Wars is more useful than it really is. If you look at the historical use of artillery (and I LOVE using artillery), you will see that it very rarely wins fights on its own. Fortifications like the trenches of WWI, the coastal forts of the 19th century, the defenses of D-Day and the Japanese fortifications in the Pacific in WWII were all able to absorb heavy bombardment and still give a serious fight to invading troops, often after days or weeks of bombardment. Star Wars turbolasers don't appear to be significantly more powerful than real-life howitzers, and they have never been shown to be capable of pinpoint accuracy over long distances. Orbital bombardment is a tool, but by no means a one-size-fits-all one.

[@flashchrome640]

Well said.

[@artloverivy]

Interesting. I don’t think bombardment would have hurt, but it definitely wouldn’t be as big of a game changer as one might think

[@lukeskywalker5392]

"you believe, that orbital bombardment is is more usefull than it really is" So you're telling me, that literally melting a planet doesnt destroy fortifications and tunnels?

[@Daniel_Jones]

Also the geononsians could send a distress call causing a bigger battle then it already was

[@Daniel_Jones]

@@lukeskywalker5392 3 senators and some aclamators will not come close to melting a planet

[@aquariusm.910]

I remember the beginning of the second season of the Clone Wars because of how badass it was, Ki Adi Mundi even used flame throwers against the Geonossians lol

[@TheTattorack]

Ki Adi Mundi; two brains and they were both thinking "WARCRIMES!!".

[@cybersmith_videos]

I was pretty shocked by the flamethrower scenes...

[@EckhartsLadder]

Me too!

[@26th_Primarch]

No it was not...

[@antitroller101]

Hey with these bugs, its best to just kill everything with fire Silly that they never started doing a bug hunt after they won the first battle since it was pretty clear that the local infestation were pro-CIS

[@Heegaherger]

I don't think there is a military left on this planet that still uses them any more, since the 90's at lest, because they are horrific (if efficient) in their effect. Banned by treaty if I remember correctly. And yet, here they are, a prohibited weapon, being used on a sentient species. Also, what is with the snapping of necks?

[@26th_Primarch]

@@Heegaherger mercy killing blasters more efficient in my opinion...

[@tennoshenaniganizer9234]

The first invasion of Klendathu was better planned than the second invasion of Geonosis

[@barrybend7189]

No at least the clones had bombers.

[@tennoshenaniganizer9234]

@@barrybend7189 Which they sent out AFTER half their force was knocked out of the sky

[@seanurbik5158]

Tenno Shenaniganizer Wtf is your profile pic?

[@barrybend7189]

@@seanurbik5158 his profile picture is that of mister one gallon of lsd popo.

[@seanurbik5158]

Barry Bend Huh...oh yeah, now I remember...

[@LastShadow1st]

I love how eck's solution is almost always: Send everything in at once and head-on.

[@pelandes3549]

Either that or bomb the hell out of them from orbit. Preferably both.

[@headheretic1580]

"lmao just feckin obliterate them"

[@26th_Primarch]

Sounds like an astra militarum plan...

[@idothings6908]

It is effective

[@Focalroc]

“Do the thing, do the thing right, ignore the fact that the enemy also has a plan, and make it work. Waste as many supplies as necessary”

[@samdale3937]

Commander Cody is such a boss, but then so are all the clones.

[@joshuashkopiak8644]

Thank you 😀

[@samdale3937]

Commander Cody so disappointed we didn’t get to see you in rebel’s 😢

[@joshuashkopiak8644]

Sam dale I know! I wanted to be in it so badly!

[@samdale3937]

Commander Cody did you like Rebels?

[@billclark5055]

@@joshuashkopiak8644 Rebels was trash. I'm glad you weren't in it. I wish we got a real brutal HAS show where the Rebels struggle 5o to survive as the Empire hunts them down. I wanted to see innocent civilians get killed or at least see a series of small battles between brave rebel recruits vs large armies of imperials with more vehicles and weapons. I wanted to see Boosk, IG-88, Dengar, and Boba Fett slaughter rebels. I wanted to see rebel commandos going on daring missions without plot armor and I wanted to see the death troopers as intimidating hunters. I wanted to see why the Empire was feared. Deadly bombing runs snd an Imperial juggernaut slaughtering rebels. I wanted a Kashyyyk rebellion, where the Empire relies on bringing its bestg vehicles (AT-ATs, juggernaunts, bombers, interceptors, death troopers, heavy turrets) to best the wookiees. I wanted to see Rebel SpecForce marines, Gurellias, rebel terrorists (like in Rogue One), Bothan spies, Mon Calamari revolts, shadow troopers, stormcommandos, and how deadly the royal guards really were. The only good scenes we got was Ashoka vs Vader, Vader vs Ghost Crew, Mual vs Ghost Crew, and the space battles where the imperials wrecked the Rebels. Thrawn should have killed many more rebels than he did. We should have gotten small ground battles with 15-500 rebels battling 50-5,000 imperials.

[@chiledog17]

I would argue that a in atmosphere cruiser bombardment would have been rather risky, seeing as the CIS gun emplacements shown in the episode have been seen to be able to kill Republic cruisers. Back in the invasion of Rhyloth episode we see those same gun emplacements attacking and damaging Acclamator assault ships. Also seeing as the Geonosians are a subterranean species it would be hard to guess how much damage that a orbital bombardment would do. The Republic strategy could have been improved with direct fighter/bomber support or even perhaps if the LAATs stayed and provided fire support for their advancing forces.

[@roadhouse6999]

It was still pretty fucking stupid to send in the transports and bombers in at the same time, and without a fighter escort.

[@Phoenix1234554]

Firing from orbit would have been the best way to soften up Point Rain, inflicting maximum damage then doing multiple strafing runs with fighters and bombers. then deploy ground troops

[@Phoenix1234554]

@@roadhouse6999 You are right on that point, they didn't think it through , wasted to many lives and resources on poor Intel.

[@wargearinternational7679]

The AA guns and the factorys there on the surface. The Republic could have destroyed the AA guns at the moment they arrive and the factorys, once the Shield was down. Orbital bombardments were capable of ripping parts of the crust of a planet of, destroying facilitys who were a bit under the surface (100m) could have been destroyed also from space.

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

Having a covert ops unit take out some anti air would be better than just rushing everything in. No wonder why the Republic are pretty much broke through most of the show.

[@survivor686]

No - you are not being harsh on the Republic/Jedi: The Recapture of Geonosis was only a success despite the Jedi's command of the operations (see what I did there?). You've already listed the failure of the Republic - but may I be bold enough to suggest an alternative: 1. Recon: The republic effectively charged into Geonosis head on, with an alarming lack of recon, despite having space superiority. Were I in command, I would use my warship's sensors to recon the landing zones and the surrounding battlezone, to pick out enemy AA-emplacements, armoured formations and potential ambush sites. 2. Forward forces: I would make extensive use of my close-recon assets, deploying commandoes, ARF and ARC troopers to locate, isolate and destroy high-value assets. If possible, I'd chuck a few Jedi in there to lead snatch-squads, to either kill/capture high ranking Seppies and destroy key assets 3. Bombardment: Geonosis is a hostile planet, with every inhabitants dedicated to destroying me. Once I've done my prep-work, I'd bombard the crap out of priority targets. Sure the shield may stop my shots slamming into the primary target, but I'd bombard anything else that could help the enemy. 4. Fighter/SEAD: Finally, when I have to send in gunships/transports, I'd precede such a formation with a strike package (Y-Wings and ARC-170s) and deploy the armour in front of the seppie line (if I haven't shredded it already). Then I'd have CAS assets on hand 24/7 and have several squardons dedicated to keeping the skies clear. My recon assets will be spotting enemy hard-points for my cruisers Sure it might take a little longer: But I'd have accomplished a cost-effective invasions, without needlessly wasting valuable troops and material. If speed is critical: Glass the entire planet, deploy chemical weapons and render the surface uninhabitable

[@Legoman775]

tkoshy they didnt think the Genocians knew they were comming and underestimated the defences, plus Palpatine may have given them a heads up on the plan that he literally sat in on.

[@roadhouse6999]

I don't think there'd be too many Jedi, Clone Commando squads, and ARC troopers readily available, but you'd probably still have some. Overall, much better planning than almost anything we see in Star Wars.

[@antitroller101]

You know in hindsight some good old genocide might have been a positive thing after the first battle :3

[@michaelramon2411]

While your general points are good in terms of general-use military tactics, there are several things about this battle that undermine them. 1) The Republic did, in fact, have halfway decent scans of the battle zone, which is how they knew about things like the wall of guns, and how they planned their landing zones. Other than underestimating the effectiveness of Geonosian anti-air and fighters, I don't recall any issues from the Republic not knowing about stuff. 2) You overestimate the amount of elite units the Republic had access to in this situation. The war is raging across the galaxy, Point Rain was only a portion (though a significant portion) of the planetary battle and they still managed to devote three elite Jedi to the mission. I don't think more elite units were available. Now, sending those three Jedi down to sneak into and disable the factory and then launching the assault would have made some sense, but there are other flaws in that, most notably a total inability to assist them if something goes wrong. 3) At no point in any Star Wars media that I can think of has it been demonstrated that pinpoint orbital bombardment is a thing. Capital ship turbolasers actually seem to be fairly inaccurate, especially at long distances. The Geonosians have a large network of tunnels, bunkers and fortifications that are resistant to bombardment, and many of their anti-air guns are mobile, and could be hidden in those tunnels. Real-world history has shown that properly built fortifications can withstand huge amounts of bombardment. See the late Pacific Campaign in World War II. 4) One major factor in this battle was time - the Republic actually had very little time, especially at Point Rain. The initial deployment of Geonosian supertanks was imminent, and if the Republic had waited even a few days longer, the LZ and the whole area (particularly under the shield) would be swarming with heavy armor immune to most Republic artillery and able to shred AT-TEs. THAT is why the Republic was so insanely reckless during this battle. 5) Beyond the fact that glassing a planet is, at this time, an enormous war crime that the Jedi would never permit you to perform, at lot of people seem to really, REALLY overestimate how effective Star Wars orbital bombardment is. I know some Legends books made claims about a few ISDs being able to Base Delta Zero in a few hours, but that is quite inconsistent with what we actually see on-screen. (Look at the size of the explosion of a capital ship turbolaser against a Lucrehulk, then remember that you'd need over 100 million Lucrehulks to achieve the Earth's surface area.) Besides, not only is Geonosis a planet highly resistant to bombardment (given that most of its population is underground), but the primary target is still shielded, so that plan still doesn't work. And really? You're going to make the surface of Geonosis MORE uninhabitable? Again, your basic points here are not wrong as they apply to warfare in general, but this particular battle had some additional circumstances.

[@survivor686]

@Michael Ramon: You made some intriguing points - I hope you don't mind if I respond point-by-point 1. Fair enough - you are right: They did have enough intel to conduct a pre-attack briefing. Though I have to confess I am confused why they failed to highlight AA positions 2. Perhaps you are right: The Republic may not have had enough free specialist-units to conduct my suggested level of pre-attack recon. However, surely a couple of commando squads, or forward clone forces, deployed to secure the landing zones for the armour, would have been preferable to landing them into an unsecured LZ 3. May I make one more point: Surely an turbolaser, meant to destroy enemy vessels hundred/thousands of klicks away in the vast void of space would have no trouble hitting a fixed point on the battlefield? Surely some pre-deployment orbital bombardment of the surrounding areas would be prudent? 4. I must respectfully disagree: I agree that the super-tanks are potent - but they are constraint by being stuck on the ground. The Republic had orbital superiority - with an effective blockade surely the tanks would be isolated, unable to take off and contribute to the broader war-effort. If the Seppies want those tanks they'd have to charge a Republic blockade. 5. I concede - Blasting Geonosis' surface wouldn't yield much, the caverns are perhaps too well dug in and the use of proscribed WMDs would lose any diplomatic capital the Republic had.

[@IrishPhoenix7]

You should’ve been a General during the clone wars

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

Still would've been ordered around by hooded monks who think they know how to command better than you, despite them not being in any sort of military training for really any years. Jedi force training does not count as officer training. While there were the more experienced Jedi like Anikan and Obi-wan, many other Jedi were more of a glorified galactic peace force before the war.

[@mill2712]

Something tells me that if he was a general or admiral in star wars, he would pull a Skywalker and ignore the jedi's orders if they were less than practical and effective.

[@alduintheanti-dragonborn]

@@mill2712 Which would result in a court martial if the Jedi is alive and not in a good mood.

[@mirennn.]

Or rather…an *ADMIRAL*

[@TheShadowOfZama]

He should have been a ground or naval commander for the CIS. Perhap he could have found a way to get past the plot armor of the Republic. More specifically Anakin's. Now that would be a fun series. I wonder if there exists a series where an MC is basically the bad guy and has to defeat the good guy who has plot armor.

[@garenwenal9432]

The Admiral couldn’t spare anymore CAS in the beginning. One of the clone commanders ask for CAS and is denied because it was “ a planet wide invasion and sending fighter or bomber support would sacrifice from other parts of the campaign.”

[@garenwenal9432]

SJW destroyed Star Wars Oh for sure. I won’t argue with you on that one. This was just in response to Ecks first strategy

[@elmiau4225]

Garen Wenal What the hell do SJWs have to do with this?

[@garenwenal9432]

MauGamer42 that’s the guys name I replied to.

[@roadhouse6999]

They still could have waited until the Y-wings took out some gun emplacements before sending in transport ships.

[@garenwenal9432]

roadhouse699 yeah definitely

[@killerOfMoons]

But, then we wouldn’t have this epic Arc of the Clone Wars. And also the line _“good thing those bugs can’t aim.”_

[@attilathehun5067]

I think eck is turning into a humanity first supporter...

[@aneworder6869]

Generation tech

[@ryanjapan3113]

Borni Ekellem racist shit

[@Benthesniperof8]

@@ryanjapan3113 Humanity first. Anything that isn't human, if it can't accept living in coexistence with humanity is to be subjugated. No exceptions

[@jungkinoid8706]

@@ryanjapan3113 Xeno filth.

[@ryanjapan3113]

Captain Assblast bigoted fuck

[@canrieger3516]

I don’t get why the Republic uses their Venators so inefficient. A single Venator Class can carry a 100+ starfighters and except for example the Battle of Malastare, they rarely ever use the full potential of thir ships might. Break the Blockade. Launch all Strike Craft. Let them clear out a Landing zone as Big as Possible. Meanwhile let 2-3 Venators Land and deploy troops and Armor while the big guns blast the shit out of any bug or Droid Cannons.

[@wargearinternational7679]

Its kind of ironic how the republic uses their Venators (carriers) as battleships and the empire uses their ISDs (battleships) as carriers.

[@julianusvictor327]

The thing is that a venator can carry over 100+ star fighters as you say but it is difficult to always keep them at capacity considering they had so many venators and srarfighters were constantly being destroyed and if you also consider the fact that this was a planetary wide invasion not just point rain they couldn't divert such a large portion of their force to the battle as reinforcements as then other fronts of the invasion would then fall as a consequence.

[@michaelramon2411]

Landing a Venator in a hot battle is a very risky thing. All you need is one lucky force of enemy fighters and bombers to slip through your defense and take out the engines while it is in-atmosphere (and remember, droids are very open to suicide attacks) and suddenly you've lost a capital ship and probably a third of your ground forces. And as long as it is on the ground, the Venator is still at risk of taking heavy damage or being destroyed.

[@GAdmThrawn]

TCW makes the carriers a lot smaller than they really are. There is a lot more space in that ship than what we see. The other reason is probably budget. I don't think the animators had enough money to make a full-blown battle by taking advantage of lore. That's why we usually see a single fighter squadron in space battles when those ships can carry scores of squadrons.

[@jeffmachem2702]

My personal theory has two points: 1) the larger a spacecraft, the slower it is in atmosphere. A venator in orbit has no way to avoid an anti-capital ship weapon. The venator is way more vulnerable in a planet's atmosphere. 2) the Venator class was created to counter the weaknesses of the Acclamator class ships from the beginning. Venators were not designed for supporting planetary invasion like the Acclamator was.

[@roadhouse6999]

1:22 it seems like in every sci-fi universe, they always try to launch aerial transports at the same time as fighters and bombers. It's a huge part of the reason why the coalition took such heavy losses at London in Mass Effect, if you ask me. Looking at invasions in real life, like Iraq and Normandy, there was a significant aerial and naval bombardment, along with a number of clandestine operations, before any ground forces arrived. Why do they act like there's no time to just let the bombers and ships do their work before starting the main invasion?

[@fGlassmanN]

To be fair in London they had VERY limited time

[@dragonslair951167]

Starcraft didn't do that. In many missions (both in Brood War and Starcraft 2), you're given a small force (Examples include a squadron of fighters/bombers, an infantry platoon with tank support, a small team of elite commandos, and an infiltrator with advanced stealth equipment) to secure a landing zone before your main force arrives and you establish a base of operations on the planet.

[@MinaB-o2n]

I'd assume it looks cooler and the action is more c9mpacted this way

[@gavinyip4680]

When youtube isn't broken so you actually get a notification that Ecks uploaded

[@UncleMikeDrop]

One very big way the Republic failed to properly utilize their space superiority is actually a very common fault among Star Wars factions. They rarely if ever invest in heavy orbital mass drivers. In an orbital bombardment, a mass driver would be so much more effective than a Turbo laser because the range in space is virtually limitless. They could be at the absolute edge or even a little bit beyond the edge of the planet's gravity well and just accelerate super heavy projectiles at hypersonic velocities directly at the ray-shields. No defense could hold up against dozens perhaps even hundreds or more kinetic munitions each with an impact force in the megaton if not gigaton range depending on the density, hardness, and mass of each projectile. There wouldn't even be any radioactive fallout because the destructive effect is purely thermo-kinetic.

[@banzeyegaming2234]

Eeh, I mean, the Republic and Separatists are trying to take control of planets, not, you know, turn them into Fallout. Most of the time, anyways.

[@bayardbreen5667]

God I love how this channel has grown!

[@Vince5754Pro]

I've been going through the series with my brother since Season 7 was announced. Watched this episode last week, so far its my favorite! To think, this series got better and better as it went on...

[@tomasgogashvily5350]

Landing point on this battlefield was an empty desert plain, the rest of the defensive structure are shielded as well as the droid army. Heavy resistance that Jedi encountered were light defenses that could easily be transported from the cave systems by enemy forces (which they did). Most of the planet's citizens live underground and the planet itself seems to contain much hard-soil which is resistant to orbital bombardment. The landing force was actually ambushed be genosis army. Most of the defenses were placed on the mountains and entrenched positions which are connected to cave/underground tunnels. The static defenses, like the dam you saw, were ignored and bypassed. The Fleet itself was pinned down by enemy star-fighters and were forced to hold defensive formation, and protect transport ships that held the rest of the invasion force (reserve). The Jedi order and Republic army cannot simply bombard entire planet or gas the cave system as it would cause indiscriminate civilian casualties which elevates to war crimes. Jedi would be held responsible for war crimes, particularly genocide, given the fact that their held over all command of the operation. If i clearly remember from those episodes, Republic Fleet doesn't have the means to tract life signs below underground. It's also clear that genosians are underground society due to their queen's locations and similarity to ants. What EckartLadder's didn't see is that the Fleet is already positioned above the factory, right outside of range of separatist's batteries. The batteries that you saw placed on the mountain like structure within shields are not artillery, but anti-ship cannons that can easily penetrate Acclamator's shields and amour. Anti-ships batteries were introduced in "Innocents of Ryloth" episode that is also familiar to flak technology that were used in our reality during world war 2

[@TungstenHaze]

Tarkin mentioned that it was a “planetary wide invasion” and that they lacked air superiority as although they’d defeated the separatist fleet stationed in orbit of geonosis, the geonosis fleet was still a large threat; limiting the mobility of the republic cruisers

[@richieThach]

I really just wonder why 90% of the time in a battle, a side doesn't solve the problem by just orbitally bombarding the enemy and instead making a long, expensive ground attack.

[@mathiasgaming4586]

richie thach because it would not look good in the movie or show.

[@esrealdelgado8808]

There’s a political, sometimes economical, and possibly humane reason for not completely obliterating our enemies. If the republic acts like an evil empire, it’s people may also turn on it. Do you think the Senate or the Jedi Order could watch as the republic bombs away all who oppose it. Also, a show of strength invites resistance of equal prowess (opposite and equal reaction) and then we have World War III because of a lack of restraint.

[@mathiasgaming4586]

Esreal Delgado so you are saying sending a lot of people to the slaughter is more humane than orbital bombarding military cites? If I remember correctly, the US developed the nuclear bomb to end the Second World War.

[@esrealdelgado8808]

MathiasGaming that’s the funny thing, the US hasn’t used nukes against a foreign enemy ever since then and it’s considered a last resort weapon for a reason. We would sooner send I’m trained soldiers to the battlefield then resort to nuclear bombardment. And I say “battlefield” rather than “slaughterhouse” because that’s what it is and that’s what happens in war. This is why you train soldiers so the battlefield doesn’t become a slaughterhouse.

[@mathiasgaming4586]

Esreal Delgado the reason why the US does not use the nuke (and they have though multiple times using it, just look up Eisenhower’s nuclear plan during the Korean War) is because of MAD (mutually assured destruction). That is also the reason why you do not see superpowers attack each other directly in the real world, because it will lead to mutually assured destruction. We do not see this in Star Wars, which means both parties cannot just completely annihilate each other. To your second point. Battles are really brutal, no matter how well trained your army is. We see this in the real world and in Star Wars. Just look at WW2 battles (which Star Wars take heavy inspiration from). They were brutal and commanders though of multiple ways of avoiding them. One suggestion was made by British bomber command, Arthur Harris, where he suggested bombing the Germans to complete destruction. Another solution was made by the US to nuke Berlin and end the war. All in all, people tries to find a way to hurt the enemy while having few losses, which is why I believe that if Star Wars actually was based on logic (and not cool screens) then they would use orbital bombardment to destroy the enemy’s factories, fortification and armies.

[@coinlazergaming8516]

You definitely have some great videos! I have been subbed ever since you were around 25-30k keep up the good work!

[@silverfang683]

I loved how chaotic this episode was, it was a 10/10 episode and constant fighting from start to finish

[@ztrax7133]

Minotaur class battlecruiser (StarCraft II) Vs Imperial I class Star destroyer (Star Wars) 19th try

[@barrybend7189]

Viking from starcraft vs VF-17 nightmare.

[@LAV-III]

19 down 1000 more attempts to go

[@ztrax7133]

Saeid Radder fr tho

[@CallsignYukiMizuki]

Yes YES Y E S Y E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E E S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

[@Nephalem2002]

Can we talk about how Iconic that Y-Wing Flyby is when Obi-Wan’s Squad is surrounded by Droids?

[@ReadStory-fp2ur]

no

[@General_Cheese6]

great vid! I think the Republic could have had a better strategy. they should have got Y wings into the shield, bomb the factory and bombard the droids assault them tactically with clones. they could also soften up the droid defenses with bombers and turbo lasers before they land troops.

[@hac3359]

General_Cheese6 Those Y-wings would be destroyed before they reached the shield. The only reason they were successful in the battle was because the guns were targetting the dropships

[@TaisharEnder]

Yeah I always got the impression from that episode that Yularen was overseeing a planet wide battle or at least a very large battle somewhere else on the planet during the Landing at Point Rain. That’s the only reason I can come up with why Yularen practically refused Obi Wan’s request for air-support during the ground battle. I got the impression that most of the Republic assets were already engaged elsewhere on the planet.

[@timbartschwolfman]

Eckharts Ladder Can you do a Battle Breakdown on the Battle of Area 51 from Independence Day 1 and 2 please

[@renata6002]

I've only just discovered your channel and so far, I find your videos interesting. Honestly, this episode to me actually highlighted just how unedcuated the Jedi were in military strategies and how they were more than willing to thrash themselves more often than not in full frontal assault on the enemy with little regard for their troops. I remember thinking the whole time Obi-Wan explained the three pronged attack how dumb and limited it sounded.

[@jackie324]

The CIS knowed the GAR's strategy. The GAR didn't exspect that amount of defence forces. This maybe explained, why the GAR attacked without bigger airsupport.

[@benceklock4831]

Great vid! Could you make a similiar video about the Umbaran campaign of the republic?

[@alexmauney9705]

“You know what’s a great idea? Running out transports into flak fire and using portable artillery as front line battle tanks”

[@DarthNoox]

In the AU fanfic that I'm writing the Third battle of Geonosis happens, circumstances are similar but thanks to this video I can prevent my characters from making the same mistakes

[@hansmendoza2007]

Viscount Class Star Defender VS 3 of the MALEVOLENCE (Subjagator Class Heavy Cruiser) 47th Try

[@rumblerLX]

Top notch commentary as always @EckhartsLadder May the Force be with you.

[@jacksonmacpherson6101]

4:12 unexpected smiley face

[@LAV-III]

Lol I see it

[@derrickstorm6976]

The orbital bombardment/ secret Jedi strike force was a great idea! It'd be awesoem to see that

[@thorshammer7883]

Forerruners vs The Imperium of Man. (Halo vs Warhammer 40k)

[@aidanshaw4890]

“Good thing those bugs can’t aim!” *sounds of death*

[@lukeskywalker1215]

Wow what a war hero my father was!

[@LAV-III]

Indeed he was a remarkable man a bit of a hot head to sometimes

[@chrissonofpear3657]

He was wizard...

[@Z1gguratVert1go]

There is nothing direct we see on screen to support this, but I had always assumed that the Geonosians knew where the Republic was going to try to land because Palpatine was running both sides of the war. The Republic plan would have made a lot more sense if their landing zone was mostly undefended. Other episodes either strongly hinted or openly showed Palpatine feeding intelligence to both sides to maximize the brutality of the war so as to mire the Jedi in as much danger as possible, to both kill off Jedi in battle as well as to marinate them in the terrors of war to further drive them towards darkness which separates them from the Light Side.

[@cominguponinfra-red3038]

Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (325th try now, *_I._** WILL NEVER EVER GIVE UP!!!)*

[@bluerobin2982]

Goooo

[@Legoman775]

I agree about bombing the zone and decimating it but at the same time they say in the show something to the effect of the Genosians dont know we are coming, so likely they thought the defenses wouldnt be as strong as they are. That being said however, if they gathered any intel they shoulda known how deadly these defenses are so it is still their fault for not doing enough recon.

[@Dalipsingh111111]

This episode is another reason, why i dont like the Jedi. They are the guys, who always talk about saving lives, dont torture, live morally, ..... but then Ki A Mundi orders to use flamethrowers against the Geonosians. The people whose home planet gets invaded by them.

[@juniornisthal2216]

Kane123a because they rebelled and are know to be working with the CIS ....

[@devinlastnamenotneeded8521]

Literally a war

[@Dalipsingh111111]

@@juniornisthal2216 Its not about them fighting the Genosians, its about the use of weapons, that are illegal even in our World.

[@juniornisthal2216]

@@Dalipsingh111111 no he clearly states is about the fight of the geonosians

[@sizzas4503]

Ki-Adi-Mundi orders his wounded into the tanks. Being injured takes point and curs down barriers for easy passage of his men. Ki-Adi-Mundi flame thrower order prevented further loss of men. Also let's not forget the Geonosians are at war they would of served Mundi and his men to be food for their queen zombie slaves for the hive.

[@cybersmith_videos]

Have you read Catalyst? I don't want to spoil it, but there's a pretty good reason that the Republic wanted Poggle alive, and orbital bombardment rules that out.

[@lovejiji]

Good thing those bugs can't aim ! ! ! !

[@Comradist]

Very good content, need more EckhartsLadder in my life right now tbh

[@001skm]

The problem with your breakdowns is that you are too logical. Obviously battles in Star Wars are never based on strategic logic, but rather what looks cool or fits the story. Besides SW warfare is based on that of WW2, WW1 and all the way back to Napoleonic times, which in a sci-fi universe does not really belong. Great video as always though.

[@roadhouse6999]

I think looking at Star Wars and other science fiction/fantasy franchises logically is the point of this whole channel.

[@GAdmThrawn]

The breakdown is too logical because the people writing Star Wars aren't using enough of it. While SW warfare is inspired from various historical battles and wars, they aren't as thought through as they should be.

[@sentinal_entity]

@@GAdmThrawn I'd definitely like to see a lot more "logical" battle strategies in the Upcoming 6th season of TCW. But, I highly doubt that.

[@phaeronseherekh1754]

as I and many others have said Star Wars is space fantasy not Sci-Fi. Either way though they really should be more logical.

[@zorkmid1083]

@TheAethelWulf That would then beg the question as to why the Jedi were appointed as generals, when they had no experience with leading military campaigns.

[@cowmeatius7151]

This battle reminds me of the Normandy landings, just without all the planning and setup

[@cleber5444]

I'm actually watching this instead of studying for my history test tomorrow

[@MavsAreBetter]

What?

[@harley3445]

Awesome Video your break downs of the different star wars battles are my favorite

[@tlsrob6772]

You’re forgetting one key thing though about your cruiser bombardment idea; “ Radiation from the munitions “. Luminara mentioned that the munitions used had an after affect that could have killed clones and Jedi. Other than that this video is really good. Hope you view this comment.

[@TehAntares]

Problem with there breakdowns - we really don't have any image of wider context, military strength, unit placements, terrain, etc. So it is possible that the Republic strategy was the best one they could have. You suggested that Republic should either use more bombers or move its fleet closer to the defense line to bombard it. In the first case, Republic invasion force would have to be composed of more bombers, but it didn't. Even dispatching a single squadron of air support was very limited and could be provided only at the last moment, like we could see in the episode. In the second case, CIS forces could actually have some AAA weaponry against large vessels. Also, the flagship probably served as aerial base and C2 or C3 for many simultaneous missions during the invasion. Moving it from its position could threaten the ship (moving to range of enemy AAs and air force) and possibly even cut out support lines and communication of some attack groups elsewhere on the planet.

[@justafaniv1097]

The biggest problem was putting peacekeepers accustomed to working alone and making use of superpowers in charge of armies of normies. A frontal charge seems like a great idea when you have super reflexes and can deflect bullets. But for everyone else, it's a meatgrinder.

[@sergeyoneill1344]

That exact senerio happens in the og clone wars 'So, the plan is sneak into the enemy base knock out the sheild and our troops swarm in and over-run the enemy'. 'Yup, let's go'.

[@type_s_tyler7547]

Just watched this episode a few days ago, best episode in the clone wars series IMHO

[@markgalura2891]

@2:10 Yularen did say it was a planetary wide invasion. To spend resources (bombers, ships, guns, etc) is to pull from somewhere else and make them suffer.

[@zamarymarzan]

I loved those episodes of the Clones Wars

[@nahomgoitom5595]

you are right your strategy would work orbitel bombardement focused on out side the shield, secure air superiority and land the troops with full air support and take on the shield.

[@marccamp6376]

Ah you are so damn right, is the same I think about the Quaritch RDA Final assault to the tree of Souls in avatar, "why dont you use a satelite attack?, just orbit Pandora and drop a block of titanium, that would destroy ANYTHING on ground" (But in Avatar I can kind of "justify it" by thinking about the RDA Earth permissions, the Quaritch operative was completely unknown for the Earth administration, and to use their RDA satellites you need a lot of permissions, and they wouldnt allow the Navi genoicde in first place, at all...) Very good video, your strategy analysis are so cool to watch :D

[@troyareyes]

I feel like "they could have bombed from orbit" can be applicable to nearly every Star Wars battle. I remember using the Oribtal Strike in Battlefront and think "man this is borderline lore-breaking" lol

[@spacemanapeinc7202]

When I first watched the episode when it premiered on CN, I also thought it was stupid as well. Not having a heavy bombing campaign beforehand absolutely decimated their first wave of troopers for which they suffered heavy casualties before even landing on the ground. Another reason is that the landing point is way too far in enemy territory, they should have at least 3 different landing points. The original landing point should have served as a rendezvous point for which the final siege on the city should have begun.

[@deltaclark3863]

I agree on the rushed launch of the transports with a light escort, they should have launched a couple of squadrons of fighters to soften the Sepratist's fighter support and Anti-Air cannons. Probably should have had the fighters swing around after one to three passes to escort the gunships afterwards just in case of any remaining Sepratist fighters couldn’t get close to the Gunships.

[@aidanshaw4890]

“The zone is too hot, we can’t land!” “But there’s nowhere else to go!”

[@IronVigilance]

That last part about a jedi stealth team knocking out the shield is why Clone Commandos exist. Most people think that just because Commandos are stronger, smarter and shoot better than the average clone makes them invincible and should rambo out on the enemy head on. The reason they are better than the average clone is because they need to be physically and mentally fit to perform special missions that the normal clones are incapable of carrying out. So yes, a commando team or two would have been perfect for disabling the shields (and possibly any other defenses such as AA guns) and paving the way for the assault. Thus not only saving more lives but also resources that can be used to supplement other battles across the planet during the invasion. Have a dozen men do the job of several hundred is a far better plan. Hell, you can even have them cancel the assault and just have the commando team covertly blow it up from the inside like Delta did in the first battle of geonosis

[@samspeed6271]

The Republic often under uses their overwhelming air superiority. They should have sent in a lot more Y-wings to just carpet bombed the landing zone and any defences the CIS had. Also, the Republic doesn't really do subtle that often. In this case, I think a small strike team could've easily taken out the shield, then the cruisers in orbit can blow everything to oblivion. And why didn't they just do a Base Delta Zero after they won the first battle. It would've been so much easier. Great video Eck.

[@jericho1733]

1:41 you can see that cannon. thats the same type of cannon used on ryloth by the separatists to stop the republic ships. if you watch the landing on ryloth, you see an acclimator class ship get shot in the engine by one of those cannons and it immediately started falling and would have crashed into the planet if the scene didn't change

[@lunar3313]

REINFORCEMENTS, THE REINFORCEMENTS HAVE ARRIVED!

[@Ibajedi]

It was a public campaign, the republic wanted to show the CIS what happens when you defy the republic, but they wanted to garner more favor for the war within the republic from those who had mixed feelings, but in the high casualties of the clones they were able to further vilify the separatist movement.

[@millerkines9656]

You mentioned possible anti-capital ship emplacements, they are shown in the video in the form of the droid proton cannons. They are shown taking down an Acclamator Assault Ship on the Ryloth arc

[@nikbrady14]

The republic needed a good reputation throughout the war. Non stop Bombing separatist world's could be a unwanted tactic by the higher ups in the republic and the Jedi. Only used in the most dire of situations.

[@labronjames6663]

Fabulous work as always Eck keep it up man ! 👍

[@korben600]

I would argue that the droid factories were the main reason for the Republic's ridiculously aggressive plan. The Republic military strategists probably realized that Geonosis is a ludicrously dangerous planet should it be allowed to recover, so they were throwing everything and the kitchen sink before it could re-arm itself. As it was, Geonosis, despite having been occupied for years, in the time it took for the Republic to send forces to quell the planet, managed to scramble enough defenses to put up a massive fight that cost thousands of lives. All those weapons, guns, ships, and droids had to have been made while Geonosis was occupied by the Republic, and after they threw the Jedi off of the planet. And they were STILL powerful enough to give the Republic a hell of a fight. Imagine what would've happened if the Republic had waited even longer and given them more time to re-arm. The biggest example of this was the episode with the supertanks. Those supertanks were borderline invincible, and they were already rolling out prototypes. If the Republic had waited even a few days for recon and orbital bombardment, those would have rolling out faster than the Jedi and clones could destroy them.

[@MrDrProfessor4]

I know you'll get to this in the finale of the Vong sub-series. Won't stop me from going through the motions though. Anyways: Can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the entire franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!* I have made this request: Eighty-one times. Yeah I'll bet this is going past 100...

[@ForOhFour]

I think the reason the battle played out the way it did wasn't because of poor strategy, but because the screenwriters wanted to create a scene much like you would see in World War 2 with the super fortress bomber formations. Those kinds of attacks played out very similarly to what happened in this episode. It made for a more tense and exciting episode than if they just parked their cruisers and leveled the whole area. In fact, this whole arc of episodes really does resemble WWII. The flamethrower scene (which was very uncharacteristic of the series), the importance of air superiority, the way the Geonosians dig in for the assault, it's all very reminiscent of the Pacific theater of WWII.

[@gabrielmendoza4208]

Every time you say “from orbit” I imagine the fleet rotating around the planet. Wold be fun to review a battle with true physics involved.

[@tjblubbs4340]

Love your dog clip, funniest thing I ever saw

[@AleXX117Emile44]

great video and one of my favorite arc on clone wars

[@Heavy087]

The big problem was that 1. The Republic wanted to capture Pogle, and 2. The Geonosiens had MASSIVE underground caverns and alot of the factories were actually underground, thus making it hard for a orbital bombardment to be truly effective.

[@CyberSkuII]

I think the starting issues were mainly due to a potential lack of time. Like it’s weird there once again wasn’t a defensive fleet over Geonosis but it’s still a fairly important planet, they probably had to work quick while it didn’t have a fleet and before one could arrive

[@CoolDude-lh9rd]

This was really good but on one of the episodes then it showed that's those cannons on the planet are able to take down star crusiers and I think the reason they did not do a huge y wing bombing was because they wanted a quick blitz because if a booming happened they would have been on alert before they could get there but say "the enemy was more than prepared for us". Which means that that would have failed. my thoughts do have errs. But overall freaking awesome videos I love your channel!

[@powerhelix896]

At 6 days old, I'm sure nobody will read my rebuttal to your tactical suggestion, but here it goes -- I think the rational behind not bombing the ever-living heck out of the drop site is that Geonosis is a dust ball. Orbital bombardment would kick up a huge cloud of dust outside the ray-shield, which would make coordinating a large scale deployment of troops by the Republic a logistical nightmare. Given the dust cloud, CIS troops would have no incentive to leave the defended, ray-shielded area (which would also probably have clear visibility within the ray shield(?). Since the factories were within the ray-shield, more droid forces are being constructed/deployed every moment. Given the strategic value of the location, there was also, likely, a CIS fleet inbound on the location (though perhaps not anywhere nearby). Orbial bombardments are time consuming; coordinating a ground assault in a dust/sandstorm is time consuming; and evacuating ground troops, in the middle of a dust-storm, in the event that space-superiority is lost is a logistical nightmare. In my opinion, time was not on the Republic's side. Every moment they took meant a higher chance of failure. The loss of clone lives was a risk worth taking, and the Jedi/generals did the best they could with the resources they had. If you think I'm being too generous to the competency of the CIS or disagree with my assessment of the situation feel free to disagree and respond in the reply section below!

[@yaboi2785]

It makes sense why there was a lack of strategy and logic because, it was mostly because of the Jedi's lack of military knowledge and by this time they would've had a good understanding of war and strategic planning but would not be the best to plan better attacks that would easily go over their heads. Plus I just love the simplicity in the better plan that would've had less casualties

[@CT-Clone]

I would love seeing what Echart would have battles like umbara and geonosis (besides bombing the living daylights out of the enemy from orbit of course) with his perfect army!

[@NPC-vq5vu]

I like this channel because it puts out good Star Wars content without doing fake star wars lightsaber giveaways like The Stupendous Wave.

[@phasmas1803]

It's actually explained why they couldn't aid beyond what they did A quote from admiral Yularen: "isn't this a planetary wide invasion? We are securing the whole planet"

[@iceydicey77]

I believe the fact that they used ground forces rather than air superiority was that clones were seen dispensable so even with the loses of troops they had those clones could easily be replaced very quickly

[@caseygray2328]

I feel the fact that needs noted is that the republic also needlessly spread themselves thin in terms of their bombers and fighters to take other objectives at the same time as this main one, if they had properly devoted fighter resources to THIS attack and done what Eckharts suggested then many lives on the republic side could have been spared

[@doktorsmiles2034]

"Bomb the ever loving crap out of Geonosis" I chuckled at this every time i heard it.

[@Brandon210-q4n]

Yeah, I think you may be missing one key point. The Republic had two stated objectives: destory the foundry and capture Poggle the Lesser. If you go with a full-out bombardment, then they can't accomplish the second main objective. Plus, they also wouldn't be able to confirm if he had been killed in the bombardment either. If he escapes, he just sets up shop elsehwere and the cycle starts again. That I think is the key point.

[@AngySteelBanana]

"If you park it". It's a fooking spaceship, I just love the idea of "parking" a capital ship and letting it do the job for you. And btw couldn't republic just flank the CIS with their capitals? I mean after they went from the hyperspace they could litterally just fly around the defence line of clankers

[@warrathblacktiger5566]

They really need more fighter cover clear the air cap over the target then bring in bombers to clear the flack cannons so the ground forces could go in a basic scenario that they skimped on

[@Amadeo790]

Your tactics are actually sound and superior I think, can't fathom why they were not employed.

[@andrewbloom7694]

No i thought this when I watched that episode. In fact I don't remember a single instance of a capital ship firing turbolasers at a planets surface from orbit. Maybe the atmosphere scatters the beam?

[@redj0ker81]

Bugs and failing to bomb them from orbit...this is giving me starship troopers flashbacks