Something Terrible Happened to Italy Economy - Is UK heading same way?

[@economicshelp]

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[@nanaasihene3177]

You have great content

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

UK conspired in the destruction of its own manufacturing base. How can you take advantage of a low pound or freedom from EU tarriff barriers when you don't make anything to export? Thatcher chose to base our economy entirely on the financial markets - which produce nothing and don't share their profits with the rest of the country, so inevitably investment goes into making property more expensive, draining real businesses of cash. It also saps tax revenues so proper training courses no longer exist, labour is imported and property prices rise again. No political party has an agenda to fix this death spiral, not one.

[@arandmorgan]

That financial service base is going to get a real shock when nobody wants to trade currency for dollars for oil purchases anymore because they will be able to trade in their own currency.

[@laurencecheyne593]

And we made things ten times worse by voting for Brexit. Talk about the Dunning Kruger Effect!

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

@@laurencecheyne593 Those policies were all promoted by Brussells. Leaving EU control is an essential first step in taking back the political power to change the numerous laws and policies that sabotaged our economic independence. The reason "Brexit negotiations" were extended for so many painful years is because they were busy tieing up new secret deals to prevent us changing any of them - the most obvious example being the ECHR which basically obliges us to let in illegal migrants. We need another genuine hard Brexit before anything will change and the chances are the EU will collapse of its own accord before anyone steps up in the UK. Every one of them is corrupt and beholden to the WEF, NATO and IMF - just like Meloni.

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

@penderyn8794 Democratic system is hopelessly broken. Most people are crushed by debt and long work hours. And if I were doing anything else to oppose it I couldn't print it here - such is the right to free speech in the UK today.

[@griefwnl7641]

very intelligent answer

[@idonthavealoginname]

Italy, like the UK,has de industrialised massively since WW2 and is paying the price for it .When travelling recently though Italy I saw abandoned factories and industrial sites everywhere.The only reason the UK has any growth at all is the city of London skews the growth figures when in fact we are in a long term recession .

[@shweshwa9202]

What? After WW2 Italy started industrializing massively and we had the economic boom, helped by the marshal plan obviously. I don’t think you know the Italian history that much

[@idonthavealoginname]

@@shweshwa9202 All of Italys heavy manufacturing is gone apart from cars and one or two ship yards . Explain that if thats not de industrialisation .

[@ste16kam35]

Same for other eu countries like France

[@serebii666]

@@idonthavealoginname That was not Italy's choice. Italian manufacturing was powerful because it offered a cheaper alternative to premier Manufacturing in Germany. But then China joined the WTO in 2002 and all manufacturers shifted en masse as China was just so much cheaper just as just-in-time shipping became the norm. That is also why for instance Rotterdam and Barcelona are much more important ports. Italy was bypassed and outcompeted. And that is why it has largely stagnated since the new millennium.

[@shweshwa9202]

@@idonthavealoginname read what I wrote because you did not read properly. or you lack the abilty to understand.

[@monicahoward7443]

I might repeat the same issue from the previous video: it's not Italians moving abroad it's the jobs that have been relocated . All multinational companies have recently moved to portugal ..so basically I'm working in lisbon as an accountant for the Italian market of French company. Any idea how much revenue / profit the Italian market brings to those companies? And yet are all moving in a saturated city like lisbon where we end up living in a shared house at Skyrocketing cost of rental!

[@billykotsos4642]

UK is quickly becoming a huge retirement home.

[@JediDarkForce]

So Japan south Korea etc

[@mongoliandude]

@@JediDarkForce But those countries have some of the best infrastructure and lowest rates of homelessness in the world. The UK has crumbling infrastructure and the highest rate of homelessness in the OECD. We need investment and spending more than ever, yet we now don’t have the revenue to do it.

[@JediDarkForce]

@@mongoliandude Japan is 200% gdp or something like that in debt. Many town and cities ceased to exist. Empty. Like post armagedon or zombie apocalypse. Infrastructure in big cities right that's top notch but abandoned areas due to dying population are scary empty. Maybe too many empty houses etc hence low homelessness. I dunno

[@silvafox7719]

Like Florida but with shit weather.

[@slothsarecool]

@@JediDarkForceId much rather retire in Japan haha, the people are much nicer

[@krishnanunnimadathil8142]

I had a few roommates in London who were Italian back in the 2010s and they used to complain to no end about the lack of opportunity in Italy. “The travelling Italian” almost became a theme around that time; they were ubiquitous in London for a while. Closely matched by Spain, although Spain seems to have turned a corner?

[@jonsimmons4150]

I knew one looked exactly like jean reno, security guard at jobcenter basingstoke. I knew several italians. No.jobs in italy!

[@barbthegreat586]

True, I knew several young, well educated Italians who just didn't find a job in Italy. One was a dentist who'd been unemployed for a year while in Italy. Worse, they even expected her to work for free for 'experience'.

[@Alexander-rr6yn]

Many Italians like to complain. But yes I agree to a certain extent that employers in Italy request experience and young people on their first job usually need to do low paying stages in order to then find stable contract jobs.

[@barbthegreat586]

@@Alexander-rr6yn It wasn't her first job and as soon as she moved out od Italy in another EU country, she got 10 interviews and 5 job offers IN A WEEK. As I said. if Italians want dentists and' or other workers they'll have to rethink their attitudes.

[@Alexander-rr6yn]

@@barbthegreat586 I know many dentists and other medical professionals that earn a lot in Italy. But as I said yes low paying jobs are a problem in Italy especially in certain sectors, and that is primarily due to the fact that the country’s economy is composed of many small and medium sized companies that generally don’t have the liquidity to invest in innovation and technology, which translates to low productivity and then low wages.

[@allykhan8594]

50% of u.k gdp includes gov spending, which includes 30% borrowig and 5% interest payments.

[@BillY-tw8xc]

That's crazy. We waste so much money and being America's lapdog is hurting us too

[@allykhan8594]

@@BillY-tw8xc China Gov spending is only 12%, far more balanced. The Trend is Business are moving out of the U.K and making less profit in the U.K for those that remain and contributed £50,000,000,000 less to the Exchequer.

[@BillY-tw8xc]

@@allykhan8594 Yes, the Chinese are smart by spending little. They also make everything affordable for everyone. Plus not spending money on pointless wars have done wonders for them.

[@tomjohnson9833]

@@BillY-tw8xc Perhaps, but China is hardly free from flaws is it. For example, in 2023, 37,000 Chinese nationals were detained at the US/Mexico border. There is no reciprocal movement of US nationals illegally trying to enter China. Why do you think this might be the case?

[@BillY-tw8xc]

@@tomjohnson9833 I never said China is perfect but they're improving, whereas we're declining. Also, Americans entering China is easy, whereas it's extremely difficult for Chinese people to enter the US legally.

[@lawLess-fs1qx]

If a European owned Clothes in the 80-90's. They were made in Italy. They devalued the Lire every few years to stay competitive. Classic middle income trap that few escape.

[@atilla4352]

We had turkish textile and stuffs in communist Hungary from seasonal sellers from Poland.

[@aerodylluk2543]

The UK is an embarrassment right now and has been for the last 20 years.

[@xtc2v]

We haven't made a fiscal surplus in 24 years. Some of this is the costs of immigration and also the long term fall in North Sea oil and gas revenues that began around 2000.

[@tomjohnson9833]

@@xtc2v North Sea revenues have never added more than 2% to UK coffers, and that was a few years of high oil prices following the late 1970s Oil Crisis. The average from 1985 to today is somewhere around 0.4%

[@xtc2v]

@@tomjohnson9833 The peak was at 16% as far as I know. What is the source for your figures and are you referring to a percentage of Gdp or percentage of the countries income?

[@xtc2v]

@@tomjohnson9833 Oil money was lent by the Bank of England to the city and has given us the financial sector strength on which we rely today. Also we benefited our balance of payments by using our own gas which we now have to import. The industry used to employ 200,000. Before North Sea oil taxes were very high and Britain was broke and desperate After becoming an oil producing nation we boomed and the pound regained its value. Today we are without doubt in decline. Even going by your figure 2% of GDP is a hell of a lot of money. Over the last 24 years we have become deeply indebted

[@tomjohnson9833]

@xtc2v the difference between broke and desperate is a lot more than 2% of GDP People need to stop learning about economics from Instagram. Just because we're in a period of stagnation or recession doesn't mean its going to last forever. Just like the booms currently happening in other counties will not last forever

[@gerhard7323]

Germany was traditionally one of Italy's main competitors industrially speaking. The introduction of the single currency basically rendered Germany's industrial exports cheaper than they would have been under the DM and Italy's more expensive than they would have been under the Lira. Italy volunteered to become uncompetitive by joining the Euro and permanently surrendered the monetary levers with which it could previously adjust its course to the ECB in Berlin.

[@marcd6897]

That’s not entirely right, currency advantage isn’t the explanation also because the type of heavy industry is quite different. Germany has eventually specialized their industries and the goods they produces, currency is only a very small (and lame) excuse for the mistakes being made by the Italian industry sectors.

[@grimaffiliations3671]

Yup, leaving their sovereign currency was the beginning of the downfall for most EU countries

[@yared8771]

Exactly. The old Italian political class was masterful in monetary policies. Sadly they joined the Euro Zone and they became slave of spread, austerity and deflation. It's incredible how 99% of the political experts are in blind denial of that fact

[@chrislouis7913]

@@grimaffiliations3671even I’m against the euro as someone born in Germany. My dad tells me how much more affordable life was in the 90s prior to the introduction of the euro. It may benefit the German economy, but did not help any of the citizens within the EU, even Germans in my opinion

[@alexdavis1541]

Apart from China, the UK main stock market index is the worst performer of all major economies over the last five years, and by a very considerable margin. That must surely be telling us something about wider economic performance?

[@Nobumblegumforyou]

Italys wages are nearly in line with UK. Its economy is actually doing pretty well, or we are doing that badly. Its clear from running my own business and knowing highly skilled international workers. Our problem is mindset. Large employers rather employ cheap immigrant labour than invest in technology and training to upskill their existing workforce. The most skilled choose to not work in the UK due to the bad offer of high cost of living and LOW wages. Its a greedy mindset and overeliance on cheap labour X by a unproductive bloated state serving an old age population. We also borrow to serve the old, not borrow to invest in infrastructure and productivity. Its managed decline and all stems from a piss poor mindset in both the public and private sector.

[@tomjohnson9833]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_average_wage wages in UK are between 20% and 30% higher than Italy, depending upon which methodology you use. But the resullts in terms of where countries sit on the scoreboard, are largely the same.

[@Nobumblegumforyou]

@@Daniel-py6rd It's not great, but varies with region as the North Italy is doing really well and south is impoverished.

[@Alexander-rr6yn]

@@Daniel-py6rdNow things have improved a little, but yes real wages if compared to inflation have not grown enough in the past 2 decades.

[@miaemilia6462]

Uk pensions are very low so not sure if 5% gdp spent compared to other countries is correct or even ” apple to apple “ …

[@giogio4833]

Italy was booming up until the euro .I know I was there..goods doubled in price overnight people stopped buying.

[@ciaranReal]

Ye that's why britian never adopted the euro

[@johannnunweiller9634]

Thank you for informations!

[@TheEbbemonster]

Why does noone adress the "productivity pr immigrant group"? If you take a look at that it is pretty worrysome for some of the groups...

[@Sancarn]

There should be a strong push towards working from home in the UK. This will distribute wealth across the country, instead of it being focussed in London.

[@geoff9759]

Interesting explanation of the factors behind the UK economic conditions. I am one of the people born in the early 1970s who have experienced the country unraveling. I don't think it is a terminal decline yet but we are at the tipping point. Thank you for your work.

[@tomjohnson9833]

A lot of people commenting here - both patriots and trolls alike - seem to forget that ALL economies are cyclical and take time to adjust to changing conditions. All the poor countries now experiencing rapid growth were once themselves wealthy and prosperous, or part of another wealthy or prosperous society, before falling down the league table.

[@ciaranReal]

​@@tomjohnson9833 yes, before britians reliance on the financial sector the economy was growing slowly but after that it boomed, I believe we can do it agian somehow

[@tomjohnson9833]

@ciaranReal let's remember that the Labour government of the late 1970s had to ask for a loan from the IMF to keep the country afloat. Yet many commenters would have you believe we had uninterrupted growth and prosperity right up until the Tories took power (in coalition) in 2008. In fact, we've been up and down before, and every nation gloating about current growth will soon see that growth end.

[@intersezioni]

The economy of Italy is a highly developed social market economy.[28] It is the third-largest national economy in the European Union, the second-largest manufacturing industry in Europe (7th-largest in the world),[29] the 9th-largest economy in the world by nominal GDP, and the 12th-largest by GDP (PPP). Italy is a founding member of the European Union, the Eurozone, the OECD, the G7 and the G20;[30] it is the eighth-largest exporter in the world, with $611 billion exported in 2021. Its closest trade ties are with the other countries of the European Union, with whom it conducts about 59% of its total trade. The largest trading partners, in order of market share in exports, are Germany (12.5%), France (10.3%), the United States (9%), Spain (5.2%), the United Kingdom (5.2%) and Switzerland (4.6%).[31] In the post-World War II period, Italy saw a transformation from an agricultural-based economy which had been severely affected by the consequences of the World Wars, into one of the world's most advanced nations,[32] and a leading country in world trade and exports. According to the Human Development Index, the country enjoys a very high standard of living. According to The Economist, Italy has the world's 8th highest quality of life.[33] Italy owns the world's third-largest gold reserve,[34] and is the third-largest net contributor to the budget of the European Union. Furthermore, the advanced country private wealth is one of the largest in the world.[35] In terms of private wealth, Italy ranks second, after Hong Kong, in private wealth to GDP ratio. Among OECD members, Italy has a highly efficient and strong social security system, which comprises roughly 24.4% of GDP.[5][36][4] Italy is the world's seventh-largest manufacturing country,[37] characterised by a smaller number of global multinational corporations than other economies of comparable size and many dynamic small and medium-sized enterprises, notoriously clustered in several industrial districts, which are the backbone of the Italian industry. Italy is a large manufacturer[38] and exporter[39] of a significant variety of products. Its products include machinery, vehicles, pharmaceuticals, furniture, food and clothing.[40] Italy has a significant trade surplus. The country is also well known for its influential and innovative business economic sector, an industrious and competitive agricultural sector (Italy is the world's largest wine producer),[41] and manufacturers of creatively designed, high-quality products: including automobiles, ships, home appliances, and designer clothing. Italy is the largest hub for luxury goods in Europe and the third luxury hub globally.[42][43] Italy has a strong cooperative sector, with the largest share of the population (4.5%) employed by a cooperative in the EU.[44]

[@serenatonino]

Totally agreed. Totalmente d'accordo.

[@johntheaccountant5594]

UK is politically and economically doomed. However most of the EU (especially Northern and Southern parts) are also doomed politically and economically.

[@caballoloco100]

Well It is true that ltaly has got a productivity and debt issue, but the UK too, especially with private debt levels among some cohorts of the population.

[@stephenthomas3085]

The Spanish economy has been creating more jobs than any other European nation and employment is at its highest level for many years. It has decent levels of economic growth and is attracting a lot of inward investment and the Spanish govt is investing in high quality infrastructure like a new high speed rail line. Bit by bit its relatively poor education system is being improved. Yes, there are areas of Spain that have far fewer jobs and opportunities like the south so young people from these areas tend to move (as happens in many countries) but, they also, have access to FoM, unlike British young people. I would also add that the Spanish public healthcare system is one of the best in Europe, its railways are excellent and its roads are in far better nick than the UK's. Police numbers are also far higher than the UK where you'd be pretty lucky to even get a police officer to turn up. At least we have a dentist whenever we want and services that work well. So, careful with the lazy assumptions.

[@johntheaccountant5594]

@@stephenthomas3085 Are those jobs created Public Sector (Government) jobs?

[@georgesdelatour]

@@stephenthomas3085 UK crime rate: 87 per 1000 people Spain crime rate: 47 per 1000 people UK homicide rate: 1 per 100,000 people Spain homicide rate: 0.6 per 100,000 people

[@stephenthomas3085]

@@johntheaccountant5594 No. It is a sign of a much improving economy after taking a clobbering from Covid. Businesses are taking on new workers as they expand and inward investing companies are also taking on people. Let's not forget the economic ruination caused by the crash of 2008, Spain was still suffering the aftermath of this with chronic youth unemployment right up to Covid. Unemployment is still above 10% of course but the economic trajectory looks good and economic growth is strong compared to the rest of Europe.

[@Anton43218]

Meanwhile Romanians still emigrate en masse to the UK and to Italy. Just goes to show how the UK and Italy is still leagues above what my country of Romania has ever offered.

[@johntheaccountant5594]

Crime is easier for Romainians in the UK than Romania

[@Turefu2]

@@johntheaccountant5594That’s very rude thing to say. I’m Polish, my country is doing so well according Economics Help, yet still I can see requests on Polish forums: “I need to emigrate to UK! My salary is £700, my rent is £500 and we’ve got energy prices increases from July! “.

[@johntheaccountant5594]

@@Turefu2 Poland will have the same problems as the UK in the future due to immigration. Look at the prices of property in Warsaw due to immigrants (Ukrainians) buying it up.

[@Anton43218]

@@johntheaccountant5594 it depends if you are connected to one of the rulling families here

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

Rumania's options are few because it chose the same EU/IMF straightjacket as Greece.

[@caballoloco100]

Low investment growth rate sustained over a decade will hit the UK in the years to come. Low productivity and the inability to recruit talented, qualified EU workers will make matters worse, unless the government makes a U-turn in its approach to the EU. It wont happen with another Conservative government. A change is as good as a rest.

[@jonsimmons4150]

cheap imported eu labour? had that for 30 years! no thanks!

[@georgesdelatour]

In 1997 Tony Blair quintupled immigration levels over those of John Major. But before 2004, very few immigrants were coming from the EU - even with post-Maastricht Freedom of Movement. This was because, before the East European countries joined the EU in 2004, average wages were very similar across the EU. But when the East European countries joined in 2004, their average wages were around 7 to 10 times lower than West European wages. Back then Bulgaria’s average wages were 14 times lower than Luxembourg’s. So, of course, millions of East European workers headed for the UK. Since the UK left the EU, over six million EU nationals have applied for permanent residency here. Most came here during that post-2004 surge. Most will get permanent residency. Don’t they already help the UK economy? If they don’t, why would adding more of them ad infinitum help? Plus, East European wage rates are gradually approaching West European levels…

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

We need to stop importing workers instead of training our own. And we need to stop depressing the real value of wages by inflating rents and property prices which does no good to anyone except foreign property speculators.

[@Nobumblegumforyou]

There are plenty of talented well qualified workers here. Problem is THE best don't want to work here for the low wages. Was just speaking with a consultant and he commented how low the wages are for his role in London vs the rest of Europe. We don't have a skill problem, we have a pay problem. We also have a mindset problem of preferring cheap immigrant labour from the third world rather than invest in technology to improve the productivity of existing workforce.

[@kubhlaikhan2015]

@@Nobumblegumforyou We do have skill shortages and it isn't hard to see why - decades of mismanagement of the education system. Universities are more concerned about attracting foreign feepaying students than educating our own children. Colleges provide low-level courses that lead nowhere - because higher courses cost more to run. And the government prefers to encourage immigration rather than revive its own despised working class. It was just as mismanaged under the Blair government too.

[@Jiddu88]

Pijnlijk. Thank You for your upload!!

[@nicoled.conyers]

"Young Americans, don't let the system define your fate! Break free from the cycle of debt and financial struggles. Invest in the financial market and take control of your future. Build wealth, generate passive income, and secure your financial freedom. Invest in yourself and create a brighter tomorrow."

[@RosellaLCraig]

Looking for ways to earn money daily is sometimes frustrating and is a pain in the ass, I couldn’t really keep it up, it’s exhausting 😔 job hunting is something that drains your physical and mental wellbeing, hoping to get response from people who got themselves employees already but still keeping your hopes high

[@robertl.anderson]

yeah investment is the key to sustaining your financial longevity but venturing into any legit investment or business without a proper guidance of an expert can lead to great loss too.

[@shirleya.osgood]

*Exactly and many of us don't know where to invest our money so we invest it on wrong place and to the wrong people*

[@giorgiotommasini6828]

Our salaries in Italy are the same as they were in the late 80s actually..good stuff...

[@ciaranReal]

One struggle 🇬🇧 🤝 🇮🇹 the two greatest empire in history

[@ogkicks81]

Difference is Italy holds loads of Gold and UK sold its Gold for peanuts under Brown days 😂

[@hannah60000]

I don’t know if this is credible information. However, Brown will go down well in history for his decisive actions in 2008. The rest of the world followed his lead.

[@ogkicks81]

@hannah60000 what rubbish you talking about? Go check Gold reserve holdings and see what Italy has compared to the UK. Then go check current spot price of Gold and what Brown the numpty sold it for.

[@ogkicks81]

@hannah60000 UK has less Gold now than even Taiwan 🇹🇼 😢

[@tomjohnson9833]

@@hannah60000 Brown's laissez-faire regulation left the UK uniquely vulnerable to the financial crisis, and was a large factor in causing it.

[@wokelefty]

​@@tomjohnson9833banks were de regulated by the previous tory government, but Labour could have regulated them again once in power.

[@roryoneill9444]

In the 2021 GVA the North of Ireland has increased still in 10th place but much closer to East Midlands, Yorkshire and West Midlands, with Yorkshire out performing the East Midlands but West Midlands still stayed at at the same level and the North of Ireland. So the Mid table economies in the UK as of 2021 are The North of Ireland at £24,007 GVA per capita, East Midlands at £24,261 GVA per capita, Yorkshire at £24,330 GVA per capita and West Midlands at £24,530 GVA per capita. Unfortunately, the North East of England has not improved at all.

[@roops2939]

At least Italy can afford high speed railways , a health service and good road infrastructure.

[@NialPowerCork]

It seems to me though that there is a pretty hard limit at some point to how much the currency can be devalued to prop up competitiveness, it seems a short term fix for a deep underlying problem.

[@allykhan8594]

By 2025 National Debt is predicted to be £4,000,000,000,000 Trillion. Expansion of the economy by 2% annually adds only £4,000,000,000 to the economy, but even this can be perverse; increase gov borrowing and gov spending. At this rate of growth 2% it will take 75-100 years to pay this national debt, we can only rely on devaluation of the debt.

[@diseasefire]

I'm Italian and i moved to the UK 7 years ago. Just some points i would like to make: - The analysis is spot on, very impressive! Italy unfortunately also has other problems as well like corruption and tax evasion - Opportunities are less and wages are MUCH lower in Italy - The massive growth of China also probably affected both Italy and UK negatively to a certain degree. That said i'm very grateful to be here, i know that you see the doom and gloom side of it but you all are nice and kind people and there's also a lot to be happy about

[@danielepavone3131]

Just for reference, what Is your occupation in UK?

[@robbailie5878]

Good point. The UK or Italy could of kept hold of it's manufacturing but China has and still would of come along and done everything cheaper. Thatcher just got it done and dusted rather than us watching it happen over the last 10-20 years.

[@danielepavone3131]

@@robbailie5878 as It goes, in matter of very few years chinas goods Will be as expensive as ours, they already have experienced High increases. Things move fast these days, Vietnam Is the new china in terms of shoes, but that Is already changing. Not Easy to predict, the only Sector basically not affected by the crises are luxury goods, not the type of stuff china or Malaysia or Vietnam are famous for. So lets stop trying to undercut chinese product and lets create original innovation instead.

[@ciaranReal]

One struggle 🇬🇧 🤝 🇮🇹 the two greatest empire in history

[@danielepavone3131]

@@ciaranReal The difference is, nobody in Italy believes we are currently a great empire, actually we have never been an Empire, the Romans did. The Uk instead believe they are still a great Empire, the only problem being the rest of the world do not believe it.

[@riccardob7774]

When you only look at statistics, you never have a real picture of what’s really happening in a country. The years in which Italy looked bad were the first years of Globalization, when Italian factories closed down to move production elsewhere. Italian companies still made money, a lot, just not the fired Italian workers. Of those, some retired, some got government salary assistance, some found new jobs. They struggled, but they made it through. Globalization also meant that the companies producing abroad, paid less taxes in Italy than before. Workers out of work too. Less taxes came in, less spending budget available, but same costs as before. Therefore more government borrowing and the “Spread” went up. These are just a few things that should be told while looking at mere statistics. And it will tell you that what happened in Italy is not at all what’s going on in the UK now. That is, Italy didn’t have Brexit, didn’t isolate itself and didn’t kill its own private sector by denying it of a market. So you can’t compare the two trajectories as if they were just lines on a spreadsheet

[@tempestvideos9834]

Why do Mediterranean countries pay so much of their GDP in pensions?

[@babushek9453]

You meant something happened to majority of european countries economy after 2008 crisis

[@robtyman4281]

*something different (UK) really means 'Brexit' essentially. But no one will say the dreaded 'B' word anymore. That's the reality. Brexit has been like a 'slow puncture' for the UK economy over the last eight years. But itts only since 2021 that this 'slow puncture' has become a faster one, as a bigger hole has opened up.

[@calexico66]

Hey, the lack of growth in secondary cities or regions is more often due to emptying of financial and business elites that migrate to the regions or cities that have higher growth but also that are the administrative centers. If the investment decisions are being made in the capital or some financial center, the tendency will be to invest close by. And also it means those decisions to invest in those regions will often miss key pieces of context that can make or break the implementation or operational stages. Also , and very important, the existence of those elites in those places act as a pressure group to build up public investment that can sustain more investment.

[@frasermitchell9183]

The Italians relied on currency devaluation to keep their economy afloat, but closed this option off when they foolishly joined the Euro. The Germans managed to manipulate the currency conversion rates to favour Germany and the rest is history.

[@alexkat8297]

Maybe because the Germans make - well, made - better cars? Currency has little to do with it, you just kick the can down the road if you rely on devaluation, especially when you have to compete with the Asians.

[@stephenbusby3521]

The island of Corsica is French not part of Italy

[@qubex]

I’m a British and Italian elder millennial. Can’t help but feel very unlucky with the overall situation.

[@ksj1526]

So, should the UK and Italy increase immigration? I wonder because both countries are cutting it down significantly - will the economy of each of these two countries crash, respectively, if the immigration is really crushed down?

[@riccardob7774]

Put it this way. Because Politicians squandered all the money that people paid into their Government Pension Funds, covering the actual cost of those pensions is now left to young people’s contributions. That is, working people. Paying for their own pension, but the funds are used instead to pay for those who are now retired. I know, borrow from Pete to pay Paul. Not sustainable. But not the fault of retirees either. If population decreases, and so less people work and pays for retirement, less money comes in to pay old people pensions. Up to the point that the system will bankrupt itself. Since both countries have population decline, the only solution is migrants. Make them legal, teach them language and skills. They’ll pay into the system and give the politicians time to try to fix the problem. So yes, regulated and organized migration AND integration is needed. Anyone that says anything different is just hiding his head in the sand for fear of the Black Man

[@ksj1526]

@@riccardob7774 I thought the uk pension system is everyone paying for their own future pension, rather than young people nowadays paying for retired people now?

[@riccardob7774]

@@ksj1526 Sorry, my bad. I was talking about Italian pensions. Don’t know about UK. The theory is: you pay all your life, the government “invest” the money you gave them, then pays you back when you retire. Problem is that your money is either badly invested or not invested at all, so the government uses young people payments to pay for old people pensions

[@giancarlopettorino5940]

The situation here In Italy Is not bad at all 😂... Where di you get this news?

[@vince-n]

all the baby boomers are retired now and the majority get salary pensions which we are all paying for...tax them more as they cost the most health care which is why NHS is struggling

[@marcocarlson1693]

Well, I can refer you to the U.K.'s own The Telegraph of London. The Telegraph, as you surely know well, is a Major mainstream publication of the U.K.-London itself. April 3rd, The Telegraph HEADLINE: Meloni's Italy Is Doing What Basket-Case Britain Could Only Dream Of." It says, what 'Britain Could Only Dream of.' Their own words. How is that for a statement straight from the U.K.- London Itself? Think they would Headline something like that without serious backing and reason? Or maybe this as well, also coincidentally on April 3rd. Germany- Bonn, Deutsche Welle, another Major news publication right out of Germany, Itself. HEADLINE: Italy Is Overtaking Germany As Europe's Economic Powerhouse." Interesting Headline right out of Germany? While this article doesn't shed much new light of anything to me, it makes quite a large statement, especially for being written by the Germans themselves, I would say. So is this the 'something terrible' that has happened to Italy's economy? For all the criticism and really just sheer nonsense said about the Italian economy, by those that don't know a thing, there are others, who know a Whole Lot more.

[@Leptospirosi]

You mention "corruption" which is a factor, but much less then you think. Unless you devise organized crime in the south of Italy as corruption. The main factor that really makes Italy not competitive is beuroeucracy and the molasses timed slowness of the judiciary system: those are both more like powers that you often need to appease in Italy then services at your disposal and do not care of their effects on the economy.

[@sc754donaldn3]

In summary, the uks problems are self inflicted, italys are down to not having control of its currency.

[@ab-ym3bf]

That could be a conclusion based on this video. Doesn´t mean it is reality. It is normal for an english based "analysis" to blame the €. As if eternal devaluation is a healthy habit making the population richer.

[@JoeWilliams-bp5nm]

Surely Italy's decision to join the euro was self-inflicted? I don't think Germany followed them down a dark alley and threatened them with a knife to get them to join...

[@strikedn]

@@ab-ym3bf Exactly. I was there when "eternal devaluation" was happening and it was more than horrible. And in no way we were richer and the industrial crisis of the 70s even made things worse .

[@terencewise7349]

From Terence Wise.........Good assessment as usual but like every other pundit you never say that workers should be better paid to encourage recruitment.......No, Britain has always wanted cheap labour.

[@marcotomas80]

I am italian and I can say that UK has an historic advantage. His global ties with Us Canada Aus Nz ecc....

[@ike637]

Yes the uk is finished. A number of years ago because of their economy falling behind , they decided to include all deposits in banks as part of their GDP. This was sufficient to keep them ahead of France and india for a few years. But not any longer , they are by PPP in 9th position now. And will certainly be out of top 10 within a couple of years.

[@fern8580]

Like the UK, Italy has expelled 50% of its population since the year 1800. There remain in Italy the big landowners, the rest ( 40% of the population) ,are incapable of formulating anything (like in the UK). I was in the center of Turin this week, everything is luxury and prosperity.

[@neilus0]

A few questions maybe you can address in future videos 1. London is by far the most productive part of the UK and even Europe and had the most immigration and foreigners. What's the real relationship between immigration and economic growth? 2. I'm in London UK and work for an American company. More and more Americans own everything in the UK. What's the outlook for UK outside the EU, are we destined to become the 51st state?

[@vince-n]

italian economy has been bad since they went over to the euro in 2002...so more than 20 years ago

[@sirjohng1]

Yes, Sunak is there to ensure this happens.

[@robertofranceschini2857]

Regional integration in Europe is particularly evident as the"rich enterprizing north" is rather more fully participating in the evolution of the continental economy. Being part of the EU movement of the four freedoms especially staff, capital, know how/enterprize and an economy where SMEs unlike the UK can operate well. The poorer regions on the South unlike the UK can and do take jobs in the wider economy. Can't as you say be all that bad as a consistent G7 country'

[@saeedahmed1261]

Please also add "URDU" in subtitles languages.we are almost 500 million people,who can understand better by doing it. Thanks

[@MaxTheLazyCat]

Is English not prevalent on the internet in India or Pakistan regions?

[@nicok5548]

This is very short term thinking. Big government spend is bad, eventually you cause inflation and huge taxes on the productive part of the economy. UK issue, as it was in Italy, is the big government killed its private sector productivity.

[@mrcia2129]

How does big government spending cause inflation? Also shouldn’t the tax burden disproportionately be on the productive part of the economy, as it is productive? Not trying to argue.

[@nicok5548]

@@mrcia2129 when government spend more than they collect through taxes, they print money. Printing money causes inflation. And inflation is basically a tax on ordinary people savings and income. The productive part of the economy is the private sector as a whole. The unproductive part is the government run. Everything that does not work is because it is either government run, or a government put in silly regulations to benefit a billionaire friend.

[@danielepavone3131]

One of the most useful videos i have seen since it demonstrates how one can convincingly state half truth and get to a wrong result, convincing 99% of the viewers. I am italian and a member of the Association of Small Industries of Mestre, Northern Italy, Veneto /Associazione Artigiani e Piccole Industrie di Mestre/ and myself a manufacturer of equipment for watches that we export worldwide. Italy is a land of small indistries and ctaftsmen-artigiani and whetever you go you can see a workshop or an indistrial area. Say no more, plenty of literature about all this, if one can read still.

[@strikedn]

I'm from Mestre too but live in Milan. The number of small/medium size enterprises in Northern Italy is staggering as is the lack of labourers. This thing that Italy is in decadence always leaves me puzzled. How come we're in decadence if unemployment is basically non-existent here, plenty of job oppotunities and, honestly, I can't see all this poverty around?

[@danielepavone3131]

@@strikedn any private Enterprise run by anyone like our politicians would bè doomed instantly. Tax evasion Is huge, but the worse thing Is that if all due taxes were duly paid It would Just be Money wasted by hopeless, useless and corrupted politicians

[@TauredX]

we also have mafias, which you only have in a soft way. Southern Italy cannot develop also because of the mafias which aspire to around 10% of the GDP. the ndrangheta has become a scary power

[@ciaranReal]

There no way it's that bad

[@MarketsDriveTheWorld]

The UK has definitely mafia/ criminal organizations but they recicle money there so they probably inflate the gdp not deflate it. 🤔

[@ad_astra468]

*10% of the Southern GDP, 2% of the national GDP.

[@ECECECECEC]

Errrrrrr, we’ve been in decline since brexit and if/when the checks come in we’re screwed.

[@Zerpentsa6598]

UK is worse. All GDP growth is generated by someone going out and having an extra cup of coffee at Starbucks. 😂

[@voranartsirisubsoontorn]

A sign for better-alternative requirement.

[@delbroox]

The UK is not doing well. But Italy has something that the UK hasn’t had so far. The same level f corruption and hypocrisy. Just based on this I hope the UK will eventually recover and keep faring better than the UK. People in other countries often don’t realise how bad the situation is in Italy

[@Slowbiker1957]

It joined the Euro

[@greggbutler9344]

We’re all finished, Game over

[@tomjohnson9833]

Has that ever actually been the case of any country ever? Or do economies just rise and fall cyclically? Every time the economy falls in any country, idiots think its the end. Likewise, everytime an economy is booming, idiots think it will last forever.

[@jim-es8qk]

No. It stayed out of the Euro and kept control of its monetry policy, has a different voting system allowing the UK to form strong majorities, and had Thatcher style reforms in the 80s. The UK currently has the ability to always bounce back. Italy has none of our advantages.

[@David-bi6lf]

"strong majorities". hahaha you been living under a rock? I'd rather have real democracy thanks.

[@Hession0Drasha]

The idea that Italy could have competed with chinese exports, after they joined the wto, just by devaluing their currency, is silly. It wouldn't of helped.

[@grantchallinor5263]

The world has changed. Even US-based organisations now say that the world's biggest economies are 1) China, 2) the US, 3) India, and 4) Russia - the latter's thriving economy having surpassed Japan's. Really, it's no surprise that the 3 largest economies in the world are part of the BRICS alliance. The G7 is history.

[@saiyedakhtar3931]

Nonsense. Everyone recognizes that the US is the largest economy by far. The GDP PPP figure is never used by economists to compare economies. PPP figures are used for PER CAPITA comparisons for living standards. Nominal GDP is used to compare international economic might.

[@grantchallinor5263]

@@saiyedakhtar3931 The PPP figure is used by The Economist, The World Bank (a very American institution....) and just about every economist worth his salt!. GDP (on its own) is not a reliable indicator of economic size.

[@saiyedakhtar3931]

@grantchallinor5263 PPP is a measurement of GDP 🤣 but if you had studied economics, you would know that it only measures the size of the domestic economy if all international trading were cut off. Second, it is not an accurate measure of international economic power because it includes non tradeable goods. So, if a haircut is cheaper in China, it doesn't mean it can be exported. Therefore, the PPP figure is overinflated for international comparisons. Moreover, the GDP PPP figure does not adjust for the quality of goods. It only adjusts for hypothetical prices. A Chinese car, for example, is generally of a lower quality than a Japanese or even an American one. I've driven a Chinese car (compact SUV). They are ok. But technically speaking, they are still a decade behind the US or don't have consistently available spare parts.

[@grantchallinor5263]

@@saiyedakhtar3931 No, I haven't studied economics (at least I don't have a degree in economics) but I have worked (from a financial perspective) in developing markets for almost 17 years. If you really have studied economics - I'd ask for a refund. According to the World Bank and numerous other reliable economic sources the world's largest economies are as follows (updated just 3 weeks ago): 1.China - $35.0 trillion 2. USA - $27.4 trillion 3.India - $14.6 trillion 4. Russia - $6.45 trillion 5. Japan - $6.3 trillion I think most people would rather trust sources like the World Bank and The Economist on this - rather than some KZbin commenter who has just had his pants pulled down!

[@asiaokruszek]

@@saiyedakhtar3931 just have a look at what are the GDP drivers, trade balances, structure of export, numbe of engneers, number of patents, etc.

[@kirildyakov606]

The population is changing in both countries. I can predict standard of life close to countries from Africa, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh

[@atilla4352]

UK is still following the steps of the romans, but times changes.

[@ciaranReal]

That means britian can rise agian just like the romans did in the form of the byzantine empire or renaissance

[@ad_astra468]

⁠​⁠@@ciaranReal Of course it can, in Italy we have a saying which goes “good times and bad times don’t last long” which is especially true for our history since it’s full or rises and falls but applies to everyone. The absolute worst period of last century which were the 1940s especially 1944 and they were followed by a 40 year economic boom.

[@ciaranReal]

@@ad_astra468 thank you 🇬🇧 🤝 🇮🇹

[@clockpenalty]

Typo in video header: "Italy economy". Made me double take to be sure it wasn't a clone or copycat site: you may be losing clicks.

[@AntonioMontagnani-m7m]

The cover of the video has a wrong map of Italy🤦‍♂️ How do you expect to be taken seriously if you make such trivial mistakes?

[@MarketsDriveTheWorld]

Italy still has to receive most of the money for covid but thee governments don't even know where to put that money 😂 we literally want less money because we cannot spend it 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤣.

[@CENTRIX4]

Demographics Is Destiny Italy's core problem is a negligible average birth rate per woman for more than 50 years. This also applies to all European countries. Europe is in a Demographic Apocalypse. Politicians should have stepped in more than 50 years regarding the declining birth rate. The most important statistic of any country is the average age of a woman when her first child is born. This is the most accurate statistic for predicting how many children a woman will have. The negligence from politicians regarding the Demographic Apocalypse is beyond description. Has the threshold of no return been crossed when it is too late for the European population to recover? The threshold of no return is now.

[@georgesdelatour]

The only country which has reversed its demographic decline is Israel. In Israel, non-religious Jewish women have around three children (the religious Haredim have around seven). How did they achieve this, and can we copy them? 1) Israelis consider their country a patriotic cause in a way that’s probably unique. It may be difficult to persuade the Italians, Japanese or Brits to go in for this kind of “patriotic fertility”. 2) The fact that Israel is supposed to be a Jewish state may be a touchy subject on these threads. But it has the advantage that certain distracting bullshit arguments we constantly hear in western countries don’t even get brought up. If Israel is supposed to be a Jewish state, then inviting in non-Jewish foreigners to have the babies the locals aren’t having is automatically ruled out. It’s a stupid argument anyway because, when countries invite foreigners in to have the babies the locals aren’t having, the following always happens: First, the foreigners’ fertility quickly drops to near the level of the locals. Second, the extra pressure the foreigners put on resources such as housing pushes down local fertility even further. 3) Israel has taken the issue very seriously. There are substantial financial benefits for families. IVF treatments for older mothers are completely free. The media are encouraged to portray multiple child families as the norm, etc.

[@annamoon7222]

They have much more social unity in Israel, a common goal and sense of purpose. Also in religious cultures the primary role of women is to have lots of children. That's why. All the freedoms and rights of women that we won in the west may have been for nothing.

[@georgesdelatour]

@@annamoon7222 There's a saying, that the future belongs to those who show up for it. BTW I recently read a study (can’t remember where) which examined why US fertility went sub-replacement during the Great Depression, but bounced back strongly after 1945. You might think the answer would be obvious (poverty versus wealth), but that’s not always obvious. Most third world countries see a massive drop in fertility when they get richer. These researchers found that the biggest factor boosting fertility after 1945 was young men’s wage rates. Women’s wage rates didn’t seem to affect things (and in the postwar boom, women’s wages were actually pretty good). After 1945, most men under 30 were earning enough money to buy a home and raise a family on one salary. This made these men much more attractive marriage partners for women.

[@annamoon7222]

@@georgesdelatour Yes, that's the problem. Years ago men could be the main breadwinner and the woman's income was supplementary and she had more time to be at home. Today there is much more pressure on both men and women due to housing and rent prices so I'm pretty sure stress will be a big factor. Add to the mix major global instability and this will be the result.

[@georgesdelatour]

@@Daniel-py6rd South Korea's fertility rate is 0.68 children per woman. It means massive sudden shrinking of the population.

[@jim-es8qk]

It joined the Euro. That is what happened to Italy.

[@magnushelin007]

As did the Netherlands, Finland and Luxembourg.

[@ab-ym3bf]

@@magnushelin007 yes, but any english comment or analysis needs to focus on something negative about the €. As if eternal devaluation of ones currency is the way forward...

[@magnushelin007]

@@ab-ym3bf I know, I see it everywhere.

[@marcoac-sx6lq]

​​@@magnushelin007the economies of those countries were completely different. The Netherlands and Luxembourg are legalized tax heavens. The Netherlands had a low public debt and has a huge private debt. Italy had a large public debt and a small private one. The economical positioning of Italy was totally different that those countries. Euro is a strong currency designed on the needs of center and western Europe. Exactly the contrary of Italy would have needed.

[@jim-es8qk]

​@@ab-ym3bfFor a brief period, Italy was a richer nation than England. A devalued lira allowed to export its clothes around the world. That changed when it joined the Euro

[@martynhaggerty2294]

Amazing compendium of facts and analysis. Even Sheldon would be jealous.

[@panterone1769]

Nel 2024 l'Italia è il quarto esportatore del mondo. Superato il Giappone che ha più del doppio degli abitanti. È dietro a Usa, Cina e Germania, tutti paesi con molti più abitanti.

[@ciaranReal]

One struggle 🇬🇧 🤝 🇮🇹 the two greatest empire in history

[@terryj50]

The thing the uk has that Italy does not is migration. Even though Italy has fom it has little to no jobs to offer high unemployment. The uk does not have this and still people want to migrate to the uk.

[@spacemonkey200]

0:07 The chart shows it crashed in 2006. The same year that the UK did when we opened the boarders to cheep East European labour. 🇪🇺

[@spacemonkey200]

More people doing the same jobs for less money = Less GDP per Capita.

[@WhichDoctor1]

the chart you timestamped shows it crashed in 2008, what else happened in 2008? If you are going to lie about something, don't make it so easy for people to see the truth. 2007 was actually the highest point on that graph

[@WhichDoctor1]

you can also see the same in the chart of UK per capita GDP 7:57. Increasing steadily between 2006 and 2008 before falling after the financial crash

[@barbthegreat586]

What happened to Italy? They kept voting for Berlusconi but yes, they blame the immigrants.

[@barbthegreat586]

@@Daniel-py6rd If this is the opinion about immigration, then don't cry about the lack of doctors, nurses, construction workers etc. and related services.

[@jontalbot1]

There are dynamic forces in the UK among SMBs and tech which are not present in Italy

[@anthonymichaelwilson8401]

I’m just waiting for the fall of Sterling 😢

[@allykhan8594]

Out of the £750,000,000,000 taxes Raised £270,000,000,000 goes to welfare and £80,000,000,000 goes to benefits. The answer is more work, more jobs not more welfare.

[@annamoon7222]

Companies exploit low paid labour and treat them badly. Employees will never be able to own a house or afford a family comfortably. So maybe that needs sorting out too.

[@allykhan8594]

@@annamoon7222 companies too broad, the local chip shop is company. If the majority is this and solution is just more pay things can only get worse.

[@allykhan8594]

@@annamoon7222 We are not in a communist state which pay doctors and porters the same salary, it is 1 reason amongst many that communism failed. what a person and parents need to do is invest in themselves in education and attitude towards work and life. Too many want a free ride on others backs. If you are not paid enough Leave and find higher wages. If a father can leave Poland and work in London as a brick layer and progress why can't people indigenous do the same? All over the world people get on with it, it is only in the West people moan about being poor when they are liberated to choose anything they car too.

[@David-bi6lf]

@@allykhan8594 you live in cuckoo land.

[@allykhan8594]

@@David-bi6lf yes, u.k.

[@terryj50]

Wait isn’t Italy in that eu utopia thought nothing bad happens in the eu.

[@caballoloco100]

Inmature. No one in the EU lives in utopía. Just an ignorant of EU matters can claim "Wait isn't ltaly in that EU utopía thought nothing bad happens in the EU". Get an education and travel abroad.

[@asiaokruszek]

@@caballoloco100 True, it's not utopia, it is "green deal heaven", based on chinese manufacturing 😊

[@plop961]

All the worst immigration came to England. Now look at it.

[@raftea219]

Germany and now also Poland have been the engines of growth in Europe. Italy has long been stagnating. They like to chill. They don't seem to have the northern work ethic.

[@jonsimmons4150]

baloney..

[@georgesdelatour]

The North European Plain is the natural centre of European manufacturing. It's where the economies of scale and network effects are greatest.

[@kobemop]

Poland was getting a piggyback from Germany lol.

[@georgesdelatour]

@@kobemop I know that for a lot of Poland's history, having Germany as a neighbour has sucked. But since 2004, maybe it's actually been useful?

[@ad_astra468]

Italians work longer hours than Germans on average, it’s not a matter of work ethic it’s a matter of low investment which causes low productivity which caused austerity.

[@tclinn2909]

Glad I left Europe for greener pastures

[@mrtecsom6951]

Both our children will graduate 👩‍🎓 in the next two years. One will qualify as a doctor and the other a science teacher , on my wife’s and I advice they will both leave this broken 😞 shithole of a country 🇬🇧 whilst they still can. Haven’t decided where, currently looking at the best options as when they go it will be permanent so they want to get it right. It’s disappointing but as parents we have to accept the truth that this country will be finished within the next couple of generations and you have to do the best for your children 😞

[@ciaranReal]

Hope the best for your kids, I'm 16 and hope to help fix the country somehow, don't know how. Sound crazy but might be able to pull and agustas ceasar

[@djdoolittle1315]

We are on the way if we don’t start flogging something 😮

[@willyhill7509]

Manufacturing is the primary wealth creator, 10's of millions of manufacturing jobs have been lost in Europe, mostly to China. China's economy has increased 350% since 2008, Europes on average about 5% in real terms. Nothing else could happen, Europe is in decline and it's probably too late to stop it now.

[@saiyedakhtar3931]

China is a newly industrialized country and therefore had high growth, but it can replicate that now their economy doesn't have cheap labor anymore. At the same time, it has not transitioned to an innovation based economy.

[@willyhill7509]

The only reason for Chinas growth is that the US and Europe shut down a large proportion of their manufacturing and moved it to China, they grew and we went into stagnation, all so that the likes of Apple, Walmart and Amazon could make bigger profits.

[@Randombourg]

Most of the countries in the eurozone didn't meet the requirements, but they had to fudge to get France in. France then wanted the rest of the dregs (PIGS etc) to join to protect French farmers from the competition they would face if the dregs' currencies just continued to depreciate.

[@salvatorehacknowledge67]

The problem was this one: €

[@nicholaspostlethwaite9554]

Immigration is destroying the UK. It is not a solution to wanting growth, to surrender the nation to an invasion of foreigners. As you say of Italy, the greedy skilled will think it ok to leave, and the numbers reverse as easily, having given the impression migration is ever acceptable in any direction, which it never is. Besides worldwide population is due to crash, most places have below replacement breeding rate. Politicians have to get to grips with declining population, and running the economy. Biggest problem will be their bad attitude to debt as a percentage of gdp when gdp steadily falls. As it will with lowering population. We need to be paying off debt steadily. Main hope for any survival is robots and AI replacing humans. If the UK can lead this round of tech, or at least be there or there abouts, it may make up for humans declining in numbers very well. Disingenuous on UK not benefiting from the EU. We always lost money having to fund everyone else's subsidies.

[@ciaranReal]

Yes we spent more on the eu than we gained back

[@atatsmail260]

Do yourself a favor never compare brits with Italians nothing in common, rather with islamist where you share alot in common

[@ciaranReal]

How

[@garyb455]

The biggest problem with the growth in the UK is returns.According to the National Office for Statistics the net rate of return for small businesses is 9.6%, meanwhile the average return over the last 70 years of the SandP 500 is 10.26% and there is no risk or work in investing in that. The UK will never go anywhere while business cant make decent profits, nobody will invest.

[@stevierico5934]

The rich are getting richer

[@christherm]

Not sure, but can you start to collect your pension from your late 40s in Italy? Correct me if I'm qrong.

[@jonnoMoto]

I couldn't find anything. The closest thing I could find was "It can be possible to retire early and access a state pension as long as you’ve made at least 41 years and 10 months of contributions (42 years and 10 months for men)." So, from ~60?

[@RenatoSacchi]

Wrong, it was possible 50 years ago and it was called Baby pension. Currently an Italian worker need 40 years of work or 68 of age for pension.

[@strikedn]

67 . If you're vey lucky 64/65. Where did you read this?

[@ad_astra468]

Absolutely not, so called “baby pensions” were abolished in 1995. Nowadays you can retire at 62 if you have worked 41 years (42 for men) otherwise you retire at 67 as long as you have worked at least 20 years.

[@frostbite9]

The northeast is so poor compared to others. I hope labour will do something about it.

[@andrewtaylor6737]

Liebour won't do a damn thing!

[@goodphone156]

Please stop to talk of this !! You don't know anything in Italy economy!! Italy economy is the best in all Europe !! And Italy economy goes very well !!

[@bwilliams572]

Is UK heading same way? No

[@s.c.9878]

If the ECB wasn't busy buying Italian government bonds, Italy's cost of funding would devastate the economy.