Ed Ashby Compound vs Traditional Bow Arrow Testing

[@theARcritter]

I’m so glad you guys are making and putting out this content. Such a resource for the bow hunting world. Dr. Ed is a legend.

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

@theARcritter I started doing what these men told me to do a few months back and I've had nothing but great success.

[@walterpeterson9024]

I'm just glad that my friend is sharing his knowledge with the public while he can. GOOD WORK!!

[@bakters]

Is he as cool in person as he appears on video? I suspect he might be, but no harm in asking.

[@wcwcgarner2717]

Thank you for your work Dr Ed and Mr Fowler. This video had great info.

[@PersonalBestOutdoors]

I am glad that you are doing these videos, Troy. When I met Doc I was familiar with his studies. But getting to ask him questions and have him explain the reasons and why behind the information he collected really has been helpful for my own understanding of them. I try to explain it to friends, and I know that I barely scratch the surface. Now I can just tell them to watch this series. Doc's mind and memory is impressive. I could've been there 2 weeks and still would've come away with questions. I am noticing at the local ranges that these discussions are being absorbed. I was the only guy there with an arrow heavier than 550 for a few years. People thought I was shooting a 100lb bow due to the sound of the arrow at impact, vanes buried deeply intuitive the heavy tight-bales. I would tell them that it's just a heavy arrow from a 75lb bow. I can tell by all the holes on the backing of the target butts that more and more people are making the jump over to a setup better designed for taking game. I would say about 1/3rd of the people I see are north of 530gr now. I hear the stories, and get shown the pictures of animals harvested with the setup. Now I tell them to get north of 650, prioritizing perfect flight and structural integrity. Used to be 6 or 7 years ago, 90% of people I hunted with would use a mech. Now ALL OF THEM are using a cut-on-contact head. So keep these videos coming. Doc, thank you for all your studies, and for everything you taught me in Texas this year. I know you don't care about it, but I am glad that you are starting to receive the recognition you deserve for your efforts. Even if it is many years later. Thank you ABF for continuing the studies and keeping the information current. Happy hunting, everyone. God Bless!

[@jasonbaker-du3de]

I’m loving these videos with Ed.

[@dusthill7032]

Changed my arrow setup this year from 450 grains to 750 grains with 375 being on front of the arrow...shot through a little bit of brush and watched my buck run 20 yards and cave...my son is shooting same setup and took his first buck this year... the adult arrows are definitely the way to go...my broadhead is 3 blade 200 grain and my son has the ranch fairy 3 blade 150 grains great content

[@paulheberling2750]

👏

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

Congrats!!! 🎉

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

​@NODAK-x9x I used to think expandable broadheads and light arrows was the way to go before I met ed ashby and troy on youtube. Man I was stupid back then lol. Now I'm shooting a 350 spine 700 grain carbon express terminator hunter 300 grains up front 22% Foc I get perfect arrow flight with field tips and broadheads at 72lbs and 29dl at 243 fps it's a night and day difference. Love the heavy setup I'm shooting a 100 grain magnus stinger 2 blade.

[@obionewheelkenobi689]

750 grains bahahaha are you shooting 45 lbs wtf

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

@@obionewheelkenobi689 I shoot 72lbs 700 grains at 243 fps.

[@judefuselier]

Thank God! Been needing me some Dr Ed!!!

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

Awesome video and 2 of the best men in this community.

[@paulvega9893]

Thans to both of you. I got caught in the speed hype in the 80s and 90s. Now older wiser the bothe of you are great. I love to learn in my 60s to get back into hunting and being more lethal. God Bless to you both and your families.

[@ScottWConvid19]

The more I listen to the old derelict discussing his processes of analyzing his data, the more I realize just how incredibly valuable his work really is. He's a scientist, scholar and dare I say genius

[@RanchFairy]

I wish it was done. When we talk, there's so much more to do. We have more questions than answers right now.

[@ScottWConvid19]

@RanchFairy that's really how science should be! 👍🏼

[@TheNicestAssholeYouWillNvrMeet]

​@@RanchFairyMy only question is why use a bow/lawn darts🤣 when you could own an Excalibur Recurve crossbow.

[@alaskatruoutdoors9238]

Really enjoyed Troy and Ed talking about long bow hunting.

[@johngentzel8567]

I want thank both of you for bringing this information out for all bow hunters. I grew up on Howard Hill and Fred Bear and watching their adventures. Even had a Howard Hill long bow until it went missing. Started with a recurve and cedar arrows. Still shot them. Over 60 years of shooting archery I went the gamut of early compounds to a cam setup. I’ve learned a bunch from both of you. Hunting should be about getting close and get off a humane shot. Not distance. Keep it going. Best to both of you from Colorado.

[@jasentonguepowersaws4206]

Coming from an extreme long range shooting to bow hunting now, all of this seems like a no brainer. Killed my buck this year with a 24%foc arrow. Died in sight and dang is it quiet. Didn’t even spook the other bucks.

[@chrispalffy3511]

I've lost animals because I wanted to use flash looking broadheads without thinking through the lethality issues. I notice the bow manufacturers are not challenging your data, and nobody is asking why not. Nobody is asking why those with the big money and big resources are not arguing for or against your data. Most hunters seem happy to just be followers. Keep up the good work gentlemen.

[@izatt82]

They don't care because they are still making money.

[@ericnewman971]

they are being challenged you just arent looking in the right places

[@ravenflight88]

most hunters are just advertising junkies, "they seen it on teevee" 😂😂 no common sense among the general population

[@ericnewman971]

@@ravenflight88 I agree with your statement. Most people do not take the time to truly see the complete picture.

[@rohlfing63]

Troy, at about the 26 minute point where Ed is talking about the downward force vector of the shaft as the tip enters the animal which is rolling away at the shot, he's making the same point I was trying to explain after your video about the "shaft wiggle" in a pig a week or two ago. A low FOC will cause the shaft to tip or rock when that tip hits an animal that is moving. I also have to second your belief that the animal is often rolling rather than purely dropping at the shot. While I think both can be happening simultaneously, I've seen the result of the "rolling" first hand and in one case spined a doe with my Xbow, from underneath at about 33 yards, I was elevated 8-10' above her. The arrow entered not far above the sternum, and found the spine. She of course she fell down right there. Even though I felt she was calm (head down and feeding), at the shot she was immediately rolling away from me to make her escape, like an F-18 in a dogfight.

[@RanchFairy]

Yep. The rolling thing is real easy to see on 10,000 videos. It took me a while to "see" what was happening. I believe I had some confirmation bias that it was only downward. Pigs are the thing that I first acknowledged this on. They have short legs so they roll and spin away. Then I said "what about deer?"

[@TradTech]

When I shot trad with moving targets we had a 2-D deer target on a cable with pulley wheels angled down hill. I loved the running deer novelty shoots. 10-15 archers in line all shooting together at the same target. Tons of fun!

[@samivey8416]

This has been my favorite! I need to get my longbow back out. Been away from it too long

[@jerehoff9092]

I’m a “Stats Guy” and I salute Dr. Ashby for doing all those statistical calculations by hand…over and over again. Holy hell that is a shitload of work. I’ve done basic testing by hand for coursework and I never want to do that again.

[@knotengajin7359]

Fun fact: Charles Ellis made thousands of calculations by hand when designing the Golden Gate Bridge!

[@nathanmorkovsky2855]

Happy holidays from my family to yours🙏🏻

[@rootnpearl]

As an old guy I wish the younger ones were around and listening to Dr Ed and Troy. I have shared knowledge to younger hunters and have been looked at like what in %&** are you talking about. And the longbow shooting had me laughing. Best shot I have every made on an animal was with a longbow shooting a partridge (chucker) out of the air. Thanks for the video.

[@justafan5179]

Hey Troy! You NEED to check out Dash Rendar's channel. He just uploaded a week ago, recurve war-bows v.s. a 100lb compound bow, against medieval armor. This is his third video in this series, and it's insane. His first video showcases every flaw you talk about regarding arrow setup. His second video attempts to correct these errors, but he only had 1 arrow. This third video though... he's out for blood. He's got 5... 1800 grain arrows, with 600 grain heads, and they bested the war-bows... brought a tear to my eye... because he credited the arrows, over the type of bow. The Tod's Workshop video he mentions is from a month ago, and there too, is an AMAZING example of what happens when your arrow setup fails... the head literally snapped off the shaft, and they're like "yeah, I guess compound bows are inferior"... and the number of comments saying to get better arrows, is just so satisfying... then to see Dash's video with a lighter bow, lighter arrow, smash through slightly thinner plate... with the arrow remaining in tact... just glorious! You need to do a reaction/analysis of it, or heck, even a team-up.

[@TheNicestAssholeYouWillNvrMeet]

Bows= lawn darts compared to crossbows. Excalibur Recurve crossbows are indestructible compared to compounds the end your hunting trip when one of the 15-20 components break, hmm.

[@veteranironoutdoors8320]

Here’s something i’d like to see: On the website, could you make a printable fill in the blank data sheet (distance of shot, animal reaction, distance run before expiring, arrow speed, arrow mass, foc, pictures of the animal to mark entry and exit, et cetera) that we can use to 1-keep records for ourselves, and 2-its a standardized data form we can send to the foundation for use in studies.

[@RanchFairy]

Not a bad idea!

[@policaroc]

Ya I think I’ll be putting the compound away. Time to get back to instinctive shooting with traditional equipment. How I got into archery in the first place.

[@tolt1776]

At this point in my archery career, I feel compounds should be in a "modern weapon" season. Basically anyone can fling a feather 80 yds now and it shows. Freaking elk run to 80 yds and stand there now!

[@Gibsonlife573]

Have you looked at Valkyrie broadheads how it's got like that real needlepoint spear on it one thing I've noticed is his heads are hard to sharpen cuz the hardness of the steel

[@OldDerelict]

Yes, see pages 95 through 98 of the 2022 Supplemental Reports.

[@dennybirchfield]

What we smoking today doc I'm puffing on a tatuje reserve especial black label

[@OldDerelict]

A Victor Sinclair Limited Double Shot Vanilla Vodka.

[@mikekupetsky6879]

As far as the arrow Flex test you should take a look at Bishop archery arrows they make one that is absolutely incredible designed for big dangerous African game it's a shaft within a shaft within a shaft I believe it's around 1200 grains for the arrow itself

[@OldDerelict]

It's not a new idea. I used double-shaft arrows on both of my rhinos, with a total arrow weight of 1286 grains, in 1984 and 1985. Tink Nathan marketed a double-shaft called The Penetrator in the late 1980s.

[@rohlfing63]

Man, couldn't agree more with Ed on his comment about the reaction (or lack of) of a moving animal when you shoot, rather than making a noise to stop (and alert) the animal for a shot.

[@samivey8416]

Don't forget about Dan Fitzgerald! Compound instinct shooting

[@jeffreywilson690]

I vote tim wells best game shot, love the content

[@Gibsonlife573]

I don't know if I believe that you have to roll the cams over to get a compound to shoot before you get to the point of the cams rolling over and let's say you accidentally touched that trigger that that era was gone matter of fact there's been several times people have fun stuff in the mouth with the release because they didn't know what they were doing in the arrow goes flying straight through the air draw and maybe I'm not understanding exactly what Mister Ed is meaning

[@mpr4evrmpr4evr26]

Ive been shooting zwickey 200 grains for 30 years. The same broad head through numerous animals. I keep them sharp and only replace them when there is no more metal to sharpen. Oh I lost one several years ago so I bought a new 3 pack. I must be doing something horribly wrong. Some day I guess I'll learn.😀

[@judefuselier]

Y'all making me wanna get rid of my Omnia and get a trad bow.😂

[@preyingmathis2517]

Im gonna cut in right here, okay..... okay.... 😂🤪 no, no you're not 😂 God bless you ranch fairy lol

[@judefuselier]

0.61 momentum at impact fellas!!

[@ericnewman971]

is that with a450gr or a 650gr arrow?

[@chrisruzsa2798]

@@judefuselier once you get a killing arrow than yes the momentum is what matters before hand it’s quality head good and sharp, an arrow that doesn’t deflect on impact and having momentum to get it through. 500-600 is all you should need 500-250 spine is all you should need and you can use any 150 head you like. The only two Broadheads I’ll ever use now is VPA omega and Swhacker 150s 2219 110 brass up front 580-600 grains. 0.7 slugs of momentum from 0-50 yards and just a little over 15% FOC.

[@african7498]

Something dawned on me during this video - that I knew, but penny dropped better - like the semi explanation. An arrow with only 75% of a .22's KE will penetrate a cape buffalo while a .22 bullet won't even get close. This should enlighten the KE fanatics - it's momentum (a higher constant mass) that is a more important predictor of lethality than KE. End of story.

[@paulvega9893]

All this info can be proven and exhibited in th P.I.T. maneuver in Law Enforcement to end a pursuit. This is why a patrol car can pit larger vehicles. I have seen tractor trailers pitted by patrol cars making them spin out.

[@guysavelli156]

Yeehaw

[@Gibsonlife573]

Another thing I've been preaching and telling every damn Channel I see and if you watch it and it happens every time I watch the killer example of it the other day with the help Brian called pretty Bowman shot a great big help with the mechanical and you literally watch the Arrow go in and almost stopped as it turns sideways in the animal it goes in a little bit further and that's it every one of these deer you see get shot with the mechanical you hear that loud pop everybody thinks that that's their lungs popping no that's the damn mechanical opening and that's what scares the deer so bad is that loud noise and that's why they run as hard as they possibly can I shot above with double bevel Iron Wheel and his shoulder and blue is entire shoulder up just destroyed it cut everything 10 yd from me the arrow never went in but everything it hit it exploded in Cut every major artery in all that shoulder now I have switched to a single bevel so if that happens again it will break the bone and go straight through but the point is it exploded that whole shoulder he walked over maybe 10 yards laid down and died

[@dusthill7032]

So form 30 yards to 37 yards you hit the same place... good for you... we practice all year long guess you should do the same cause 7 yards differfence is a lot... guess your across bow hunter no I'm not smart ...F.O.

[@tjblackforest69]

Sick listening to that bs

[@stevie9361]

Omg man you done beat this dead horse until it isn't there anymore. Poundage gets you penetration, not your dumb 700 grain arrows. All of Ed's studies are ancient info on trad bow arrows

[@RanchFairy]

Hello. Physics, Momentum aerodynamic drag are things that are hard to accept sometimes. If you'd like to see some studies done with a lab radar showing momentum and KE comparison at the bow and then the resulting "loss" of energy at 60 yards downrange, please see my long range arrow performance playlist on my channel. I was quite shocked when I did the study. Arrow set is from 388 to 715 grains, bow is 65# @28.5". Lab radar is a device that can capture the arrow as it flies downrange and show the speed erosion, which you can then calculate the actual energy at the target. I chose 60 yards for that test. It was surprising.

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

Your a dumbass ...... stevie.... 😂😂

[@TCoile08]

If poundage gets you penetration, how do ladies pulling 40 or so pounds get pass throughs? From a strictly scientific standpoint it makes all the sense in the world. I look at it 2 different ways. 1) over penetration is not a thing. You aren’t going to kill it too dead. 2) I can kill deer with a .243 or I can use a .300 PRC. I’m taking the PRC all day. Heavier bullet, and much longer effective range. Sure it’s traveling slower but that’s a trade you have to make for the other two pros. Overall more forgiving. Arrows and bullets are both projectiles. Wrecking balls aren’t light and fast either. Nobody gets around physics. We can dislike scientific fact but at some point it has to be accepted. We can try poundage, DL, or whatever else to try to cheat it but it’s not a meaningful gain and when it does succeed it gives us a false sense of success. “ I have done what they said couldn’t be done” kind of thing. 😂

[@d500mag2]

that's not what your wife says

[@ConnerHolifield-t6l]

@@d500mag2 dude grow up.